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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 9 Nov 2011

Vol. 746 No. 1

Leaders’ Questions

The head of the IMF, Ms Christine Lagarde, said the global economy is facing a lost decade as forecasts on global growth are now very low. The predictions of the Government's fiscal plan include economic growth of 1.6% next year. The connection with unemployment is quite significant because, in April, the Taoiseach targeted a 10% unemployment rate by 2015. Despite the launch of the jobs initiative, the figures published last Friday suggest we are heading for a higher unemployment figure of 11.6% by 2015, given that the Taoiseach's programme only allows for 65,000 net new jobs between now and then. That is in sharp contrast to the commitments given by the Minister, Deputy Coveney, at the launch of the NewERA document. A clear commitment was given to sell €7 billion of State assets with a view to investing in State companies and creating 100,000 jobs. Why has the job target of 100,000 jobs through NewERA been watered down? We know that the jobs initiative, the watered down jobs budget, was anything but a jobs initiative. There has been no evaluation, no data and no analysis of any outcome of the jobs initiative. In short, it seems that the jobs initiative amounted to a raid on pensioners and was more about revenue generation than employment creation. More than 447,000 people are unemployed. Many young people are looking to the Government for concrete, realistic proposals to create jobs. It is the most fundamental issue facing many households across the country. Can the Taoiseach assure me that there will be concrete attempts and proposals of a radical kind in the forthcoming budget to generate a far greater degree of employment than is currently predicted by the Government?

Deputy Martin raised three issues, including the global projections for growth and the comments of Ms Lagarde of the IMF. Given the uncertainty in many markets internationally, including the United States, the Far East and Europe and the eurozone, it is difficult to predict with accuracy the global growth figures for several years ahead. Even against a global recession, for the past number of years Ireland's exports continued to grow strongly because of the exporting sectors this country is involved in, including the agri-sector, pharmaceuticals and software. In those areas, projections and plans of Government are to continue, both with the very strong foreign direct investment stream and the initiatives taken by the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Bruton. These will focus on growing the indigenous economy with support from Enterprise Ireland for companies with the capacity to manufacture and export.

Deputy Martin also referred to the NewERA programme but he is referring to two different things. The Fine Gael Party had a particular view of the NewERA programme prior to the election. This Government is in office eight months today. The programme for Government set out the position for NewERA, which is fixed within the NTMA as an entity. It has a director and a specific remit in terms of evaluation of the potential sale of State assets. The programme for Government says that, over the period of the programme, the Government will realise €2 billion from the sale of State assets. The troika may want a higher figure and there have been discussions with the troika about how any potential sale of assets could be used, either for debt reduction or a jobs initiative, for which the Government has a strong preference. Regarding the jobs initiative, the impact of the reduction of VAT and PRSI had a direct impact on the hospitality sector and on job creation and growth. There is also a job bridge facility and the internship scheme. I would like to think these could operate immediately to maximum impact but it does not work that way. As we focus on the budget in the period ahead, in meeting the target of 8.6%, we will focus on not taxing work unduly and on creating initiatives to open new doors for the creation of business and jobs. I will send Deputy Martin, Deputy Adams and the other party leaders an invitation to avail of the facility of costing the programmes of Opposition parties for the budget.

That should be interesting.

To be fair to the Taoiseach, he instanced the incredible performance of our export sectors in recent years. Since 2003, the performance of Irish industry, indigenous and foreign direct investment companies, has been extraordinary in the teeth of a global recession. The Taoiseach's belated and long overdue endorsement of the previous Government's industrial policy is accepted and merited.

I am perplexed by the Taoiseach's comments regarding the NewERA project. This morning, he suggests that the failure to implement the project is the fault of the Labour Party. He drew a distinction between the Fine Gael Party and the current Government, describing that as a Fine Gael policy in the distant past that has been watered down and that we can forget about. I take it from the Taoiseach's comments that the Labour Party did not want to buy it or else it was a con job on the people of this country.

Can we have a supplementary question from Deputy Martin?

The Taoiseach is correct that our growth is based on export-led recovery but the eurozone crisis and the global projections are so low that it poses a threat to an export-led recovery. We know the domestic economy is on the floor——

What will the Taoiseach do in terms of the domestic economy and job creation and how many people does he project will be unemployed by the end of the four-year programme?

I have always endorsed the strong performance of Irish exporters and the people who get on planes every week and sell their wares abroad. I did not endorse the financial competence of the previous Government in the middle of the night to the detriment of every Irish taxpayer for years to come.

The current Government is continuing it.

I notice the Deputy did not focus on that.

Which the Taoiseach voted for and continues to support.

As he said: "Sure, it was all about liquidity". That is what he said.

(Interruptions).

I will disregard Deputy Martin's pathetic attempt regarding NewERA. It has a particular place in the programme for Government, which we are implementing.

Before the end of the session, the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation will introduce the micro-finance scheme and legislation for partial loan guarantees. There will be a particular focus in the budget on job creation. The Deputy will have his own opportunity, given the scale of the mess he left behind him, to tell us what he thinks should be done.

I call Deputy Ó Caoláin on behalf of Sinn Féin.

It is good to see Deputy Ó Caoláin back.

In his rightful position. No cuckoos here.

Deputies should please allow Deputy Ó Caoláin to speak.

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I appeal to the Taoiseach and the Government not to proceed by the signalled route of further savage cuts in social protection in budget 2012. We all know what the consequences of that will be — increased poverty and a deepening of the current recession.

I want to address a specific area in which the Taoiseach can make a difference to people's lives. I am addressing the Taoiseach as a former educationalist. On many occasions, he and his colleagues have referred to the knowledge economy and the vital role of education on the road to recovery. A practical step can be taken with the back-to-education allowance scheme that will affect a considerable number of people who are currently on the unemployment register. Budget 2012 offers the Taoiseach a fresh opportunity to do just that. Over 25,000 students benefited from this scheme in the last academic year, 2010-11. It is expected that this year there will be an increased number availing of it, given the current reality in which we live.

Does the Taoiseach acknowledge that many people who are willing and able to go back to education and further their prospects in terms of future employment opportunities are being prevented from doing so by what can only be described as over-restrictive elements of the scheme? I acknowledge that the period for access to third level education under the BTEA was reduced from 12 to nine months last year. However, the reality of the academic year, because it is a fixed term, is that many people who would legitimately like to take up that opportunity are prevented from doing so for at least that period of time and sometimes longer due to the fact that the two will not dovetail. I am asking the Taoiseach to re-examine the restriction. Currently it is only three months for second level education, but the nine months for third level education means a year lost or suspended in the lives of people who could otherwise use their time industriously for a better result. It would also reduce the numbers claiming jobseeker's allowance or benefit over that period. Will the Taoiseach use this opportunity to revisit the scheme, as there have already been some mild indications of a willingness to do so in recent months?

The Deputy is very welcome back to the premier spot on the Sinn Féin benches.

Deputy Ó Caoláin has raised an important matter. No decisions have been made by the Cabinet in respect of any of these schemes in the forthcoming budget or any other budget, as yet. That will be for discussion and decision at Cabinet meetings between now and budget day. The social protection budget is €21 billion. The Minister, Deputy Burton's, focus is on inefficiencies, waste and fraudulent claims. As she pointed out this morning, there are over 60 schemes in the Department of Social Protection with a plethora of administrative and bureaucratic conditions attached to them. It should be possible to have a more streamlined impact. The emphasis has to be on getting people from a position where they are locked in and cannot do anything, to offer them upskilling through retraining courses leading to job creation. That is what we need.

I can confirm that every single scheme, including the back to education allowance, has been analysed by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform as part of the overall comprehensive review. I can further confirm that the Minister for Education and Skills and the Minister for Social Protection are working together to harmonise these schemes to deal with the very cases the Deputy has raised. They come across my desk as well. The Minister for Social Protection has altered the conditions in a number of cases to make it easier for people who are willing to go back to education, with a view to getting another module or degree. That will help them to find employment, so we strongly support it.

I thank the Taoiseach for his reply. I would like to give a sense of what people are saying and, as the Taoiseach said, it is coming across his desk also. One constituent wrote:

I feel Iike I am getting nowhere. I do not want to sit at home claiming job seeker's allowance for the next ten months. I want to further myself through education but barrier after barrier is being put in my way. I can be an asset to the country of my birth if I am given the necessary support. That is all I am asking for.

That is the appeal of many people in all constituencies across the State. I earnestly encourage the Taoiseach and his Government colleagues to ensure that budget 2012, with all the signalled misery it may very well visit on our respective lives, will include measures to address seriously deficiencies within systems that are meant to assist people to get out of the morass of unemployment.

The problem is not only the nine month restriction on access to third level education, but also the requirement on progression. Many people have attained a third level education, but may have identified another potential walk of life that requires a corresponding qualification. That also needs to be examined. I earnestly ask the Taoiseach to indicate that this matter will be followed up by him as well as by the Minister for Education and Skills and the Minister for Social Protection.

Deputy Ó Caoláin's point is very valid. He read out comments from people who feel frustrated and locked into a system. They feel there is no assistance for them to get through this maze, so this requires practical and pragmatic adjustment. One of the legacies is that the investment was not made in IT programmes within the Department of Social Protection to streamline efficiencies and bring about a much faster response in changing the structural bureaucracy and conditions attaching to many of those schemes. It was never put in place and we cannot do it overnight.

The Minister for Social Protection, the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, and the Minister for Education and Skills are working on labour activation measures. For instance, if every small firm in the country could take on one extra person, it would have a great impact on the live register and on morale, as well as bringing about increased economic activity. We are trying to focus on labour activation measures in addition to greater efficiencies in the Department of Social Protection by cutting out fraudulent activities and waste that applies in that Department, as in many others. The emphasis will be on labour activation measures to get people to accept training courses, upskilling and getting back to education. In addition, through other Departments there will be the opportunity to get involved in business, jobs, careers and opportunities, which everybody will support. If Members of the Opposition have valid and constructive proposals, we will certainly take those on board because they are in the public interest.

I wish to raise once again the issue of education and its importance to the Irish people. It is also vital as a strategy for getting out of this economic mess and building a future of which we can all be proud. I wish to seek clarification on a few matters. Is it true the Taoiseach and his Government are planning to cut 2,200 teaching jobs over the next two years? Why is a cap being placed on student numbers going into third level education? Is that information accurate? Millions of euro are being spent on teacher training colleges, such as St. Patrick's in Drumcondra and Marino College. They are upskilling student teachers but for what — emigration? Where is the sense in this? There is no point in talking about radical reform of our education system while slashing frontline services. This is a total contradiction. Even if the Government does not care about education, where is the sense in spending millions of euro on training teachers only to have them qualify with no jobs at all? How does the Taoiseach square that from educational and economic perspectives and where is the value for money?

Two weeks ago in the Dáil, I raised the issue of services for young adults in St. Michael's House and the Taoiseach asked me to supply him with the details, figures and costs. I made my submission but have had no response thus far. I ask the Taoiseach for a response today on this very important issue.

One issue at a time.

In respect of Deputy McGrath's last point, I received his correspondence and am acting on it. There are a number of other inquiries about St. Michael's in general about which the Deputy may be aware and which need to be taken into account. In respect of the young boy mentioned by the Deputy, I will let the Deputy know the outcome as soon as I hear about it.

No decisions have yet been made on the Department of Education and Skills or any other Department by the Government. The student population is to increase by 10% for the foreseeable future. That means trained staff will be required to teach them. Population growth, at 7.6% for the first quarter of this year, is the highest since 1960. This means the Minister for Education and Skills must plan for the provision of school buildings for a clearly increasing number of students.

In the area Deputy Finian McGrath represents, a large number of apartments and housing estates were built but no schools were provided for the residents, with the result that enormous pressure has been put on the communities. The Minister for Education and Skills is now focusing on the projections and will have to provide both buildings and staff for the pupils. There is no decision made in respect of any of the other matters the Deputy raised.

Deputy Finian McGrath has one minute.

I thank the Taoiseach for his response but want to ask him a few more questions, on disadvantaged schools. Does he really know and understand what is occurring in DEIS schools? Yesterday, the Technical Group met representatives of the Teachers' Union of Ireland, and I have questions in that regard today. Why is the Taoiseach targeting the less well off schools by comparison with the more advantaged ones? For example, over €100 million is being spent on private schools. Is it because the mindset of the Cabinet is informed by the fact that 40% of its members went to private schools? Is that the real agenda?

(Interruptions).

I ask the Deputy to put a supplementary question.

Many members of the public are saying that and want the answer to my question.

Could we have a supplementary question, please?

Some 40% of the members of the Cabinet went to private schools.

The Deputy should look at the people around him.

(Interruptions).

I ask the Deputy to put his supplementary question. He has exceeded his time.

Is the Taoiseach aware of a recent INTO survey of principals in disadvantaged schools that shows 20 schools experienced 59 teacher losses? In ten of these schools, 16 teachers were taken specifically from children with special needs.

I have a point of order.

There are no points of order on Leaders' Questions.

Is the Taoiseach aware that 22 teachers were taken from Traveller children in 18 schools and that——

We will circulate the script.

——74% of principals report increases in the challenges facing these children?

The Deputy is over time. We are dealing with supplementary questions.

Is the Taoiseach aware that 30% of these principals are now reporting——

Two salaries, no responsibilities.

——attendance issues following these cuts? Some 45% report indiscipline in the schools.

This is not Question Time; it is Leaders' Questions.

With respect, I asked the Taoiseach whether he is aware——

The Deputy is over time. He had one minute.

——of what is going on in disadvantaged schools. Why is the Labour Party turning its back on the poorer children?

Two salaries, no responsibilities and whinging all the time.

That was a good Second Stage speech. He said a lot in the minute he was allocated. Believe you me, I was happy to cycle to school myself many years ago. I am not sure how one ascertains whether Members of the Dáil attended fee-paying schools. I understand there are 56 fee-paying schools and that 25 of these are Protestant schools. I am quite sure Deputy McGrath does not intend to attack those.

It all depends on whether there are any in his constituency.

It could be construed that he is doing so from what he said. The Government needs to assist in every way it can where disadvantaged status applies. Disadvantage was brought about by bad planning and incompetence in many cases. Huge housing estates were provided and no facilities were provided for the children therefrom.

I agree with the Deputy that education represents the gateway for everybody but there is always a difficult situation. The Government has no intention whatsoever of applying its focus to the detriment of those in disadvantaged schools. Rather, the opposite is the case in that the intention is to offer them all the help we can. As the Deputy well knows, the sad fact is that the obscene waste of hundreds of billions of euro over recent years constrains any Government in doing the job the current Government knows it should be able to do. We will obviously focus on this issue as best we can in the budget on 6 December.

Hundreds of billions of euro: that is a new one.

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