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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 22 Nov 2011

Vol. 747 No. 3

Other Questions

Cloud Computing

John Browne

Question:

61 Deputy John Browne asked the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation when the cloud computing implementation group held its most recent meeting; when he expects to receive proposals from the group for his consideration; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [36018/11]

On 30 June, the Minister, Deputy Bruton, announced the establishment of a cross-Government implementation group on cloud computing. This group, which is chaired by the Secretary General of my Department, comprises representatives of Departments and agencies responsible for all aspects of cloud computing policy, IT procurement, security, infrastructure and enterprise policy. The group last met on 28 September. In addition, the group's work was complemented by a parallel process of engagement which resulted in 23 meetings with representative bodies and individual companies being facilitated by my Department.

In conducting its work, the group examined the opportunities and challenges presented by cloud computing for business and government from the following perspectives: the cloud as a source for exports, growth and jobs; the adequacy of key infrastructures; the regulatory environment; the opportunities and benefits for indigenous enterprises; the opportunities for attracting foreign direct investment; and Government as a leader and user of the cloud.

The Secretary General of the Department, upon his recent retirement, submitted a draft interim report to the Minister. This report is currently being reviewed by the group and it is intended that the group will meet shortly for the purpose of agreeing the content of the report and an action plan to implement its recommendations. The group's final report is expected before the end of this year.

Ireland is extremely well placed to take advantage of the rapidly growing international potential of cloud computing. A recent report commissioned by Microsoft has estimated that, by 2014, the cloud computing industry in Ireland could be worth €9.5 billion and employ between 8,500 and 9,000 people. Now, more than ever, we must do everything we can to seize opportunities like this. These jobs will be created automatically, and the Government must act decisively and urgently if we are to position Ireland as a world leader in this high-growth sector. The commitment in the programme for Government on cloud computing sets out the Government's intentions in this important area of the ICT industry.

I welcome the establishment of the technology centre and the implementation group. In the programme for Government, it is stated that the Government will make Ireland the leader in the emerging IT market of cloud computing by promoting its greater use in the public sector. How can that be done when it is fairly widely known that a significant section of the public sector, including those involved in formulating purchasing policy for the Government and public bodies, are opposed in principle to adopting cloud computing solutions?

Our job is to engage with the centre for management and organisation development, CMOD. The Government acknowledges the possibilities of this. One could say work is ongoing on making the ICT infrastructure more user friendly. There will be challenges, potentially in regard to industrial relations peace, but I believe strongly that through proper engagement with all the stakeholders across government and by taking a more horizontal approach as opposed to the more siloed approach we are used to, we can achieve something and become global leaders in adopting early new technologies such as that associated with cloud computing.

It would be ironic if cloud computing were at the centre of our innovation policy while the Government could not buy cloud computing services. There seems to be a particular problem with CMOD, which is now part of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform.

I did not quite get the last point.

There seems to be a particular problem among certain people in the centre for management and organisational development, which used to be part of the Department of Finance but is now in the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform.

I am not aware of such problems. I say that openly and honestly. Research is ongoing and the centre is in the process of developing a cloud computing strategy for the public service, which it intends to bring to the Government for consideration and approval in the first quarter of 2012. If a specific issue arises, I would love to hear the Deputy's thoughts.

I would be happy to share them.

Cloud computing is based on the power of the networks in this State. Ireland is 79th in the world, or 24th out of the EU, for upload speeds and we are 49th in the world, or 23rd in the EU, for download speeds. It is estimated that an investment of €2.5 billion will be needed to bring our broadband services to the top of the table. Without this level of investment, the Minister of State's talk is merely hocus pocus. How much will the Government be investing in broadband services to make this reality rather than spin?

I fundamentally disagree with the Deputy. If he is willing to show me the source of the statistics he cited, I will revert to him on the matter.

They are from the IrelandOffline Quarterly Report.

EMC, the Irish Internet Association, Facebook, IBM, Microsoft, Fujitsu, Dell and A&L Goodbody are all engaged in this process. It is a worthwhile process because if we can become global leaders by dint of being early adopters we will have a competitive advantage. I recognise that problems arise in broadband provision but the capacity is present in terms of cloud. If the Deputy engages further with the Department, we can send him some facts on the issue.

Job Protection

Denis Naughten

Question:

62 Deputy Denis Naughten asked the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation the progress made to date on protecting employment at Bank of America, Carrick-on-Shannon, County Leitrim; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [36057/11]

My priority is that any decision taken by Bank of America should have minimal impact on employees at the Carrick-on-Shannon operation and ensure that jobs are maintained at the facility. I emphasised this when I met with senior executives from Bank of America at their headquarters in Charlotte, North Carolina in September. Since then, IDA Ireland has engaged in actively marketing the Carrick-on-Shannon centre through its network of overseas offices to a broad range of financial institutions and other international groups who may have a potential interest in the skillsets and capabilities available.

As part of its marketing campaign, the IDA prepared a detailed profile of the Carrick-on-Shannon facility which documented the capability available to a prospective acquirer of the business or facility, including staff and properties.

The IDA has met with a number of potential bidders for both the Ireland MBNA portfolio and the combined Ireland-UK MBNA portfolio. It has also introduced some of these parties to potential funding partners who might support potential bids. These are mainly global investment banks and private equity groups. No sale decisions have yet been taken by Bank of America but we remain in ongoing contact.

Credit Guarantee Scheme

Catherine Murphy

Question:

63 Deputy Catherine Murphy asked the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation if he will provide information on the proposed partial loan guarantee scheme; if he will elaborate on whether the scheme will have any facility for struggling businesses, in particular small and medium enterprises, which wish to consolidate existing debt and invest in recovery plans; if not, if he has any proposals for providing assistance to businesses with existing debt who wish to fund recovery plans; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [36015/11]

The design phase of a temporary partial credit guarantee scheme has been completed and formal proposals will be brought to Cabinet shortly. Once the design of the scheme is approved by the Government, there will then be a further request for tender published to select an operator to allow for the roll out of the scheme over the coming months. In parallel with the work taking place on the design of the scheme, the Department is preparing primary legislation to make the necessary statutory provision for such a scheme.

The scheme will provide a level of guarantee to banks against losses on qualifying loans to job-creating firms to get banks lending again to industry and entrepreneurs. The purpose of the scheme is to encourage additional lending to SMEs. It will be closely targeted at commercially viable, well performing companies that have a solid business plan and a defined market for their products or services, and can demonstrate repayment capacity for the additional credit facilities but which cannot secure credit facilities due to the following two market failures: insufficient collateral for the additional facilities; or expansionary SMEs which due to their sectors, markets or business model are perceived as higher risks under current credit risk evaluation practices.

The Government's commitment will be for an initial period of one year. Specific performance criteria will be set down to allow for review and revision of the scheme at the end of that initial period before any commitment to a roll-over of the scheme for subsequent years.

Refinancing of existing debts will not be eligible for guarantee and such arrangements will continue to be dealt with by banks under their current lending arrangements. However, in cases where new lending is sought along with refinancing, the availability of a guarantee in respect of the new lending element should be of assistance in providing an overall package of support to the business, including consolidation of existing debts.

The temporary partial credit guarantee scheme will complement the Government plans on the restructuring and recapitalisation of the banking system which seek to secure an adequate flow of credit into the economy to support economic recovery.

When will the legislation be published and passed? When will the scheme come into place? Is there a possibility that the banks are waiting for this scheme rather than operating their normal lending schemes at the moment? The Credit Reviewer recently said he was sceptical about this being a cure-all and that the guarantee would need to proceed on an individual basis, requiring each application to be considered on its own merits, which is exactly what is supposed to happen when a businessperson seeks a business loan. Does the Minister of State have confidence in the banks lending? We packed them full of money in order for them to lend to productive businesses. All the evidence suggests that is not happening. We own half of these — we certainly own the bulk of AIB and a significant amount of Bank of Ireland which would be the primary banks.

The Deputy should conclude.

If they are not lending to business that will be productive, what has been the purpose of this? Does the Minister of State have confidence in them doing that?

The scheme will be rolled out in the first quarter of next year. We have to have confidence in the banks because how can they make profit without viable SMEs, which represent the backbone of their business? This partial loan guarantee will not be a substitute for bank lending. It will only guarantee loans for businesses with, for example, a new market or product range where there is a certain element of doubt. Some 650,000 people are working in 200,000 small companies. It is important to have confidence among employers and employees. Much of the money is not being spent in the economy when one considers the level of savings being made. To support small companies in the real economy we need to spend locally and buy for Ireland to get the confidence rolling. Unfortunately many of the businesses that were viable two years ago are no longer viable because domestic spending is low. Clearly no bank will give money to an operation that is losing money. It is equally about the mentoring of a business and we are very confident that the banks will start working with the accountants and others on matters such as due diligence or the company business plan as this requires a partnership approach.

The Minister of State should conclude.

The day of the bank just giving money and standing back and hoping it will work are gone.

I call Deputy Catherine Murphy.

It is important that the bank take responsibility also.

I call Deputy Catherine Murphy briefly as we are running out of time.

I am not arguing that money should be advanced to companies that are not viable. The Minister of State and I know there are plenty of viable companies that are being squeezed to the point that they may not be viable. It almost becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy in that the domestic economy will suffer if we do not reinforce viable companies. Plenty of them are being impacted negatively by the banks. I would not argue for a guarantee although where a company is marginal I can see the benefit of a guarantee. In the first instance the money was put into the banks to allow solid companies to continue in business and continue to employ people. I know people in viable small and medium-sized businesses who are concerned about their viability because of the dysfunctional relationship they have with their banks.

The Taoiseach, the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, and the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Bruton, met representatives of the banks in the past ten days to discuss their obligation to invest in companies. If we consider the principles of any business, the taxpayer has put money into the banks and therefore the banks are obliged to put money into companies which in turn will create jobs. I entirely agree with the Deputy that the €30 billion will have to be clearly benchmarked on a regional basis. As Deputy O'Dea said, it is not about repackaging a loan that was offered two years earlier.

I thank the Minister of State.

This is about the potential for new business. I assure the Deputy that the Government is determined that the banks will play a critical role in kick-starting the domestic economy. It is very important to get confidence and credit. Unfortunately they are both linked. There is a great lack of confidence. There are 650,000 people working in small companies. We need to give confidence to those employees and their employers.

I thank the Minister of State.

That is why we need certainty. The banks will need to play a role and will be very much benchmarked by the Government as to what they are doing. I will come back to the Deputy again on this.

I will take two brief questions from Deputies O'Dea and Tóibín.

When a decision needs to be taken as to whether a loan will be guaranteed, what sort of person will take the decision? Will it be taken by a bureaucrat in the Department or by somebody in the private sector?

In the North of Ireland, Sinn Féin along with its partners through the programme for government made £50 million available in loans to small and medium-sized businesses. Would the Government not consider putting something like that in place straight away to deal with the problem?

In response to Deputy O'Dea's question as to who will take the decision, there will need to be due diligence of the business plan. It will be in collaboration with the Department, which will have a critical recommendation on this along with the bank and the business's accountant. That will be very much a win-win situation. That level of mentoring will assist with the viability and will reassure banks which in the past have refused money. There will be decisiveness. The code of banking will be looked at to give a timeframe.

In response to Deputy Tóibín's point, we have put a huge amount of money into the pillar banks. They are sufficiently capitalised and have the money to lend. With Mr. JohnTrethowan's report, there has been independent assessment of that. Bank of Ireland and AIB are each committed to lending €3 billion, which may be insufficient to meet the demand. The tragedy at the moment is that it is not just about giving money to a business, which is one element. It is about the level of support in the economy, the spend in the economy and the stacked-up costs of doing business. Keeping a company viable is not just about giving it a big cheque and hoping everything else will be rosy.

Nobody is making that point.

That is not the answer to all the problems.

Proposed Legislation

Denis Naughten

Question:

64 Deputy Denis Naughten asked the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation his plans to upgrade the current partnership law; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [36056/11]

The Company Law Review Group gave in-depth consideration, over a period of four years, to the reform of partnership law, in particular to the possibility of introducing limited liability partnerships for accountants and solicitors. In general, the CLRG did not find any strong tide of opinion running in favour of introducing limited liability partnerships. However, the group indicated the issue warranted some further consideration and recommended that the Department of Jobs, Enterprise, and Innovation and the Department of Justice and Equality should establish a committee, made up of representatives of both Departments, the CLRG, the Irish Auditing and Accounting Supervisory Authority, and the Courts Service of Ireland, to consider whether accountants and solicitors should be permitted to form limited liability partnerships or companies.

The issues at stake here are complex and wide ranging, particularly as it could involve the establishment of a new legal form which would have to apply generally and not only to the professions. The committee considering the issues will also have to take into account the taxation and transparency issues before coming to a conclusion and recommendations.

In the meantime, the Minister for Justice and Equality published the Legal Services Regulation Bill last month. That Bill includes provisions for partnerships for legal practitioners, including for multidisciplinary partnerships providing both legal and other services. The Bill also provides for the new legal services regulatory authority to be established, which will conduct a public consultation and make proposals on partnerships for the legal profession to the Minister for Justice and Equality.

The overall position on liability has been changing in recent years. Section 44 of the Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provision) Act 2008 provides that a solicitor may contract with a client to limit his or her liability to that client. Furthermore, SI 220/2010, European Communities (Statutory Audits) (Directive 2006/43/EC) Regulations 2010, provides, among other things, for the removal of the prohibition on auditors incorporating as a limited-liability company.

I call Deputy O'Dea.

On a point of order, although the Member who asked the question is not present, Members who are present have tabled questions that may not be reached. Can I ask that Members simply note the Minister's response and move on?

No, Deputy O'Dea or any other Deputy is entitled to ask a question.

Perhaps Deputy O'Dea might consider some of the other Members who have questions on the Order Paper.

When can Members expect to see the companies Bill?

Some 2,500 sections of the Bill have been published online, which comprise part 1 of a two-part Bill. It is a major piece of work.

I understand the second part is being worked on. It is a major endeavour.

Job Creation

Pearse Doherty

Question:

65 Deputy Pearse Doherty asked the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation the number of jobs that could be created with an additional €3.1 billion per annum. [35942/11]

On job creation, this Department must deal with the reality of the capital funding available to it. On 10 November the Government published its infrastructural and capital investment medium-term Exchequer framework for the period 2012 to 2016. Overall, capital investment totalling €17 billion has been allocated across Departments. In one way or another, all of this €17 billion ultimately has a focus on job creation. The Government's role is to create the conditions within which it will maximise the impact of this capital allocation and support the private sector in the creation of jobs. Within the medium-term framework the State's support to enterprise and innovation has been protected and prioritised and clear targets for job creation have been set. When averaged over the lifetime of the framework, the job creation targets for Enterprise Ireland and IDA Ireland are set to approximately 22,659 per annum.

The capital allocation for programmes funded by the Department is to be increased in 2012 to €514 million, an increase of €6 million on the 2011 allocation, and supports to industry will be maintained in excess of pre-recession levels when total capital expenditure was at its highest. This represents a strong commitment in this Department to the development of enterprise and provides the development agencies with sufficient resources to target aggressively the projects and investments that will drive economic renewal. In setting out this level of capital investment in the productive economy the Government has been cognisant of issues, including maximising the achievement of value for money and the sustainability of job creation measures.

While the notion of spending an additional €3.1 billion per annum on job creation might sound attractive, what the economy needs is structural change. The Government must ensure the enterprise development supports and agencies are fit for purpose and well positioned to help Ireland to move out of the current downturn by creating sustainable jobs and continuing to grow exports in traditional key markets, as well as targeting high growth markets such as the BRIC countries for both exports and inward investment. The Government has made inroads in bringing about these changes, as well as restoring confidence across enterprise, investors and consumers. For example, work is advanced within the Department on determining the extent of the restructuring of the county enterprise boards; IDA Ireland has restructured in order that more of its staff are in client-facing jobs, while Enterprise Ireland has made operational a new potential exporters division which will target companies with export potential. These are just a few examples of the changes being brought about.

While many words were used, the question was not answered. It would have been answered in four syllables, namely, 30,000, the number of jobs that would be created if an additional €3.1 billion per annum was available. For example, the Government could reinstate the sum of €750 million it took out and could make Ireland's broadband services the best in the world with the expenditure in one year of €3.1 billion. Obviously, the reason I mention the sum of €3.1 billion is that it is the cost of the Anglo Irish Bank promissory note. One could provide 900 MW of offshore wind energy to power up to 1 million homes. In a five-year period, with that amount of money, one could retrofit 1.4 million houses in the State. This includes every single house in the State, would save each household €1,400 per year and the scheme would pay for itself within seven years.

I am sorry, Deputy, but may I call the Minister of State?

I do not know whether the Leas-Cheann Comhairle saw the RTE television programme, "Arrivals", last night. It provides an example of the generation that has been lost to the country owing to the choices being made by the Government to divert funds from capital expenditure to Anglo Irish Bank, etc.

I take the Deputy's point which is made in good faith. However, in respect of the Government's capital allocation, there has been a 4% increase in Enterprise Ireland's capital budget for 2012. I will rush through the figures because I am conscious of the time constraints, but there has been a 10% increase in the number of high potential start-up companies, a 20% increase in the number of innovation partnerships and expenditure of €18 million on the innovation fund. The key point is that the Government is trying to set down the foundations or the bedrock on which one can sustain jobs over a longer period. If one considers Sinn Féin's proposals for capital expenditure, they entail borrowing something like €1.7 billion from the European Investment Bank. It is talking out of both sides of its mouth in this regard — there is a bit of the Tadhg an dá thaobh about it — because, on the one hand, it states it would not pay back moneys to the European institutions from which Ireland has borrowed money while, on the other, it would have no problem in borrowing approximately €1.7 billion from the European Investment Bank. This does not stack up.

I will call Deputy Tóibín to ask a question and return to the Minister of State.

The Government is trying to create long-term sustainable jobs, but the Deputy is talking about short-term projects based on capital expenditure. This does not stack up.

I am trying to share six minutes between the Deputy and the Minister of State.

My party believes in paying back sovereign debt. It is paying private debt with which we do not agree. Moreover, the European Investment Bank has been tasked with giving funds to states such as Ireland and the amount of money outlined in Sinn Féin's pre-budget submission is allowed for, given the level of the State's GDP.

I have a single question pertaining to the funds taken from Tara Mines pensioners by the Government on foot of the last jobs initiative. The Tara Mines pensioners who were to be found outside the gates of Leinster House today will see a reduction of 10% in their pensions in the next four years. That is a substantial sum which represents nearly a one month's pension payment which is to be taken out of their pockets as a result of the so-called jobs initiative taken a number of months ago. While there has been much to and froing between the miners and the Minister for Finance on this issue — I believe the Minister wrote to the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation in this regard — there has been nothing but platitudes. As for the Minister for Finance's statement, in reality it should be either the company or the pension agency organisation which deals with this matter and there should be oversight by Revenue. However, nothing is happening and the pensioners will still have their pensions reduced by 10% on 1 January as a result of the decision made by the Government.

In fairness to the pensioners who were outside the gates of Leinster House today, if I interpreted the vox pop correctly, the strong message also extended to the amount of money being taken in administration fees.

They want the Government to force the administrators not to do this.

I respectfully ask the Deputy to allow me to answer the question. The pensioners were as adamant in their opposition to that aspect. Let us take another look and look at the issue from the perspective of the communication passed between Departments. However, with all due respect, as the question tabled by the Deputy pertains to capital expenditure of €3.1 billion, he will forgive me if I do not have an exact answer for him on the issue of the pension fund mentioned.

Seán Crowe

Question:

66 Deputy Seán Crowe asked the Minister for Jobs; Enterprise and Innovation when he will launch a jobs strategy; the way such a strategy will differ from the jobs budget launched last summer; and if he will also be developing a retail strategy for the State. [35956/11]

I am preparing a jobs strategy for the Government that will set out a series of clear, actionable measures to support the creation and retention of jobs. The strategy will focus on areas such as improving competitiveness and intensifying competition in the sheltered sectors, assisting indigenous business to grow, supporting indigenous start-ups, attracting inward entrepreneurial start-ups, developing and deepening the impact of foreign direct investment, exploiting opportunities in new and emerging sectors and supporting employment initiatives within the community.

In preparing the strategy I have consulted a wide range of stakeholders from the public, private and community sectors to obtain their views on actions to support employment creation. I have received more than 600 individual ideas through this process. My Department and Forfás, in consultation with officials in other Departments, have been analysing the proposals to identify those which are likely to have the greatest impact on job creation and retention.

The jobs initiative announced last May represented a series of early actions on the part of the Government to restore confidence in the economy, stimulate demand and assist those seeking to work. The jobs strategy, by contrast, will present a medium to long-term vision of where Ireland can maximise employment opportunities in areas where it has traditional strengths such as tourism and agrifoods, as well as in new and emerging sectors such as cloud computing, health and the life sciences, silvertech and the green economy. Some of the actions in the jobs strategy will be delivered in the short term and have an immediate impact, while others will be delivered in a longer timeframe.

The objective is to publish the jobs strategy early in the new year. The actions contained in it will assist all enterprises across all sectors to protect and create jobs. It also will include specific actions for key sectors, including the retail sector.

Here we are, roughly eight months into the new Administration, and the situation is that 440,000 people are unemployed and 70,000 are emigrating annually. It is important that the lives of the individuals who are forced out of this country are understood, which was very well demonstrated in the RTE programme "Arrivals" last night. This situation is the result of the lack of focus on jobs. We discussed the crisis with regard to upward-only rents, energy costs, the credit freeze, the increases in VAT and, now, the Government's determination to lift the cap on hypermarkets, which are all anti-business policies.

One of the aspects I would like to have included in the jobs strategy is the breakdown of large State contracts. It is not true that the Government does not create jobs. The Government creates jobs, and there is close to a 1:3 multiplier effect for every euro invested in capital projects by the State. To give an example, a new contract is being developed for the maintenance and construction of the Bord Gáis grid throughout the State. It has come to my knowledge that instead of the normal procedure where the Government had contracts for a number of small businesses which worked on the grid, a new super-contract with one supplier is being created which will have a value of approximately €1 billion over almost ten years. It is likely this will push the contract outside of Ireland and make many small Irish suppliers in this area unemployed.

I do not know whether a question was asked. Public procurement is certainly an area where we will look to ascertain what initiatives can be developed to ensure SMEs get a greater share of opportunity from public contracts. I know the Deputy in his question to the Minister of State, Deputy Seán Sherlock, referred to the potential impact of €3.1 billion in creating 30,000 jobs. To put that in context, we are estimating the €2.3 billion we have been assigned for the capital programme over the next four years will create 110,000 jobs through the enterprise agencies. In this difficult time, it is important to put our money into sustainable jobs in exporting businesses that can be sustained for the long term. We would all love to have more money to build projects but what we really need is enterprises to sustain employment for the long term.

As I have a later question that will not be reached, I will try to connect it to this question on the issue of retaining jobs as well as creating them. Given they handed him a letter, the Minister will be familiar with the Connolly Shoes workers in Dun Laoghaire who were sacked, having been 17 months on strike, and who have now been found by the Employment Appeals Tribunal to have been unfairly dismissed. One of the longest serving employees, Mr. John Mulpeter, after 38 years service has been sacked unfairly and will walk away with only €1,600 because the legislation allows employers to do this to people — it allows them to essentially concoct excuses to sack workers so they do not have to pay them off properly in terms of redundancy and pensions. Legislation needs to be urgently brought in to prevent unscrupulous employers from sacking workers to avoid paying them moneys they are owed and their proper entitlements.

Does the Minister agree that the new planning guidelines announced by his colleague, the Minister, Deputy Phil Hogan, will have a devastating impact on retail businesses in town centres throughout the country and will not create any new jobs?

I mentioned the Bord Gáis contract because it is an example of a contract that will edge out small suppliers and one on which the Cabinet can have an effect. Will the Minister seek to change the policy direction in which that Bord Gáis contract is developed?

I cannot comment on a Bord Gáis contract that is not issued under my Department, in which I have had no direct role and about which I do not know the legal status. However, it will be an ambition of Government to seek to create opportunities for small business. The thresholds for contracts are sometimes set just too high for small businesses to have a chance to compete and we will seek to make changes in that area.

The issue raised by Deputy Boyd Barrett is the subject of a later question and I cannot answer on the particular circumstances of the individual to whom he referred. If the Deputy wants to submit a question, I can answer that. My understanding is, as the Deputy said, that the labour relations machinery has found in favour of the workers in this case and enforcement is being pursued.

The legislation is inadequate — that is the point. He still walks away with virtually nothing even though the finding was in his favour.

The Deputy will have to submit another question on that because I do not have the details of the individual involved and I am not in a position to comment.

As I understand it, the Minister has announced modifications in the retail planning guidelines which are designed to improve competitiveness and to have value available. The truth is that Irish people pay something like 20% more for retail grocery products compared to other countries in the eurozone. This is a small measure but it is carefully designed to protect town centres and there is a keen awareness by the Minister that the heart of towns have to be protected. This is a well-calculated measure by the Minister which strikes the balance that needs to be struck.

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