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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 7 Feb 2012

Vol. 754 No. 3

Priority Questions

Garda Strength

Dara Calleary

Question:

61Deputy Dara Calleary asked the Minister for Justice and Equality the final number of eligible garda who have indicated they will be retiring by end February 2012; the options reviewed by the Garda Commissioners in relation to potentially closing garda stations; his plans to maintain frontline services; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6624/12]

The strength of the Garda Síochána at the end of 2011 was just under 13,900, along with over 2,000 civilian support staff and over 800 Garda Reserve members. I am informed by the Garda authorities that the total number of Garda retirements from the force in the first two months of this year is expected to be around 300. To put that figure into context, in 2009 the number of retirements was 722, in 2010 it was 362 and last year it was 436.

As the Deputy will be aware, these reductions form part of a wider programme aimed at reducing the size of the public service and will contribute to reducing expenditure and complying with the terms of the EU-IMF agreement. Of course, what will ultimately determine the sustainable level of Garda numbers is the level of budgetary provision that can be made for the force and the House will be conscious that difficult decisions will continue to have to be made right across the public sector in order to bring our public finances back into balance.

Reductions in numbers, whether in the Garda Síochána or elsewhere in the public sector, must be accompanied by reform. New efficiencies must be introduced so that even with reduced staffing levels the best possible service continues to be provided to the public. That need for efficiency is what underlies the recent decision of the Garda Commissioner to close some Garda stations. In coming to his decision, the Commissioner reviewed all aspects of the Garda Síochána's policing model, including the deployment of personnel, the utilisation of modern technologies and, of course, the level of activity in each Garda station.

The key objective of the station closures was not simply, as some have suggested, to save relatively small amounts of cash on station maintenance or utilities, but rather to promote the more efficient and effective deployment of resources. The Commissioner concluded that Garda resources could be better deployed and more effectively used on the front line if these particular stations no longer had to be staffed and maintained. Deputies who oppose the closure of any Garda stations are therefore opposing what in the professional judgment of the Garda Commissioner is a better use of Garda resources.

The House might be interested to note that today I announced that the Government, at my request and with the sanction of the Minster for Public Expenditure and Reform, had appointed two assistant commissioners, eight chief superintendents and 23 superintendents in An Garda Síochána. In seeking these promotions, I was conscious of the need to enable the Garda Commissioner to fill key positions in the senior ranks, and to maintain both the investigative and also the management and supervisory capacity of the force.

The Garda Commissioner has reiterated the commitment of the Garda Síochána to providing a professional and effective service to the community. This will mean continuing to promote reform and introduce efficiencies. The Commissioner will have my full support in this regard.

The promotions announced by the Minister this morning are the subject of a later question. Could he confirm that a so-called transition team has been established in the Department of Justice and Equality? When was it established, who makes up the team, and what are its terms of reference?

Reference was made to the announced closure of 39 stations. The Minister indicated in January that a further range of stations would be closed during 2012. Will it be the 2013 budget before the Minister has that list or will it be an ongoing process?

On cost savings, which the Minister cited previously as one of the reasons we need to close Garda stations, he corresponded with me to say that the running costs for individual Garda stations are not available because they are compiled by district, not by station. It is no wonder he cannot provide a figure for savings made on the closure of each station when he cannot give a figure for the cost of running each station.

On the opposition of Deputies to the closure of Garda stations------

The Deputy should ask a question, please.

-----there is a wonderful resource on justice called alanshatter.ie which is particularly good pre-March 2011. I direct the Minister to the comments he made about the reduction of Garda numbers at a Garda station in Rathfarnham. He was most concerned about the potential closure of the station.

Just over a minute and a half remains for the Minister's reply.

I would appreciate the information in response to the questions.

As the Deputy is aware, under the EU-IMF agreement, substantial efficiencies must be effected. His party, when in government, entered into arrangements with a view to reducing the numbers in the Garda force to 13,500 by 31 December 2011. In the context of ensuring proper use of taxpayers' money and the maximum use of resources, the Garda Commissioner made the decisions he made on Garda stations. I wish that the economic incompetence and lack of governance shown by the previous Government did not have this country in the state it is in. I wish we were not in a position where we have to reduce numbers within the Garda force. I am confronted with the obligations we have under that agreement and with a Garda force and Commissioner who is totally focused on ensuring the force is in a position to fully meet its duties to implement the police plan for 2012, as announced, and to provide the community with the protection required from those engaged in criminality and with a proper investigative role.

In the context of dealing with matters well in advance of us getting to our current position, at an early stage in the Department work was undertaken and consultations were undertaken with the Garda Commissioner to ensure that any steps that were required with regard to the changes affecting Garda numbers would be put in place. Today's welcome announcements with regard to the promotions that were approved in Cabinet establishes the level of planning that has gone into ensuring at management level that necessary posts are filled in the interests both of the Garda Síochána itself and the community.

I would appreciate-----

Is a transition team in place in the Department?

The Minister cannot answer because the time is up.

Northern Ireland Issues

Jonathan O'Brien

Question:

62Deputy Jonathan O’Brien asked the Minister for Justice and Equality his proposals to work with his northern counterpart to increase all-Ireland justice and crime initiatives; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6796/12]

I am pleased to inform the Deputy that I regularly meet my Northern Ireland counterpart, the Minister of Justice, Mr. David Ford, and we have developed a close working relationship. We have a shared desire to enhance and further develop North-South co-operation across the range of our respective areas of responsibility.

Structured co-operation between our Departments and the related criminal justice agencies North and South is provided for under the intergovernmental agreement on co-operation on criminal justice matters. I meet regularly the Minister of Justice, Mr. David Ford, MLA, under the auspices of the agreement to discuss matters of mutual interest and consider strategies for more effective co-operation on criminal justice matters between the jurisdictions.

In addition to these regular ministerial meetings, project groups comprising relevant officials and practitioners from the two jurisdictions have been established to take forward co-operation in the fields of youth justice, victims of crime, management of sex offenders, public protection, forensic science and social diversity. These groups involve high level representation from relevant agencies, North and South, and their role is to promote and co-ordinate practical operational co-operation, the exchange of best practice and sharing of policy initiatives and, where appropriate, the exchange of personnel. In the past year some of the practical initiatives to emerge from the project groups included a memorandum of understanding in respect of forensic science services and recommendations on dealing with sex offenders who had crossed the Border.

An annual cross-Border organised crime conference is organised by the two justice Departments and the law enforcement agencies, North and South. It focuses on enhancing practical co-operation in combating serious cross-Border criminality and has acted as a useful catalyst in driving ongoing efforts to tackle serious crimes such as tiger kidnapping and fuel laundering.

The two police forces operate a joint cross-Border policing strategy that aims to improve public safety throughout Ireland by disrupting criminal activity in both jurisdictions and enhancing the policing capability of both police services. The joint strategy covers a range of policing areas, including cross-Border investigations and operations, intelligence sharing and security, communications and information technology, training and emergency planning. It indicates the scope of this co-operation and the determination of both police forces to use the tools available to ensure those who seek to exploit the Border for criminal ends will not succeed.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House.

This close co-operation reflects the Government's strong continuing commitment to cross-Border working which can only be to the benefit of all the people of the island.

I met the Minister, Mr. Ford, and Scotland's Secretary for Justice, Mr. Kenny MacAskill, last week when we discussed a number of matters of common interest. These included sectarianism, sharing expertise in forensic science, civil asset seizure procedures to combat crime, police reform, measures to reduce offending, prisons issues, reform of criminal legal aid, monitoring of sex offenders and vetting procedures for persons to work with children and vulnerable adults. These are all matters of common interest and it enhances our responses, North and South, to know how these matters are being dealt with by the Scottish authorities.

It is clear from the Minister's response that there is good co-operation between the North and the South. Long may this continue. Regarding how the strategies for co-operation are set out, is it a case of dealing with matters as they arise or is a 12 or 24 month strategy put in place? How are strategies put in place and what criteria are used? Are there other areas in which cross-Border co-operation is necessary?

There is a series of meetings at ministerial level with the Minister, Mr. Ford. As I detailed, at official level there is ongoing contact and strategies are being developed on a continuous basis, not as piecemeal responses to issues that arise. For example, there is ongoing interaction between the probation services, North and South. I attended a meeting of the two services at a conference held some weeks ago that I opened with the Minister, Mr. Ford. We have provided for interaction and shared experiences.

Co-operation goes beyond the island of Ireland. I met the Minister, Mr. Ford, and Scotland's justice Secretary, Mr MacAskill, on Wednesday of last week when we discussed a number of matters of common interest. The Deputy might be interested to know that these included the problem of sectarianism, for example, the difficulties experienced in Scotland, sharing expertise in forensic science, civil asset seizure procedures to combat crime, police reform, measures to reduce offending, prison issues, reform of criminal legal aid, monitoring of sex offenders and vetting procedures for persons to work with children and vulnerable adults. We also discussed the issue of human trafficking in the context of labour issues and prostitution. There is a range of areas in which common policies are developing. The tripartite meetings with the Minister, Mr. Ford, and Scotland's justice Secretary, Mr. MacAskill, are annual affairs, but there is a deepening of relationships and a continuing exchange of experiences in these areas.

I welcome the close co-operation between the Garda Síochána and the PSNI and the interaction between the Department of Justice in the North and my Department.

This will be of benefit to the entire island of Ireland. I also met last week the Northern Ireland Minister for Social Development, Mr. Nelson McCausland, to discuss common approaches in the area of justice, with particular reference to issues surrounding alcohol legislation. There is a great deal of cross-Border co-operation with a view to ensuring we put in place policies to the benefit of all the people on the island.

On legislation the Department is drafting, I am aware that an impact analysis is made in terms of financial requirements and so on. In the case of personal insolvency, I understand the proposed legislation will include a discharge period of three years, whereas the corresponding figure in the North is 12 months. In this and other matters is account taken of the situation in the North and how legislation enacted in the State might impact on an all-island basis?

The alcohol legislation is a classic example of the cross-Border co-operation in which we are engaged. One of the proposals we are considering is for both Governments to enact legislation to prevent what are known as volume sales of alcohol, where, for example, there might be an offer of 12 bottles for the price of six. Given their proximity, one cannot enact legislation in areas such as this on one side of the Border but not the other.

In addressing issues relating to personal insolvency we were acutely aware of the legislation in place in Northern Ireland, as well as in England, Scotland and Wales. All of these matters are factored into the considerations we apply in determining the best legislative course to follow. That is not to say that on all issues our legislation will be identical to that enacted in the North. However, in the area of criminal justice, for instance, the extent to which we can ensure harmonisation is very important in the fight against criminal gangs.

Human Rights Issues

Catherine Murphy

Question:

63Deputy Catherine Murphy asked the Minister for Justice and Equality if he will assure Dáil Éireann that the new body resulting from the merger of the Equality Authority and the Irish Human Rights Alliance will continue to provide independent assistance to victims of discrimination in the same manner which the Equality Authority has provided heretofore; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6521/12]

On 6 October 2011 I announced the terms of reference of the working group to advise me on the merger of the Human Rights Commission and the Equality Authority. At the time I made a clear statement that the new human rights and equality commission would retain all the statutory powers and duties of the existing bodies. The House will have an opportunity to consider whether that requirement is met when the relevant legislation comes before it in due course.

Merging two organisations with two cultures is never easy. The Equality Authority, as one would expect, had a particular focus on the issue of equality. Can we take it from the Minister's reply that independent legal assistance and advice will continue to be made available to those who require it and that such assistance will be provided in a proactive way? Does the Minister intend to take the opportunity, in enacting the legislation required to merge the two bodies, to go further by introducing additional reforms? If so, are there areas of particular concern to him?

The review group I have appointed comprises four members each from the Equality Authority and the Human Rights Commission, as well as representatives of my Department and an independent chairman. Its remit is to examine the changes and reforms which might be effected, at the same time as the introduction of legislation to bring together the two bodies. It was originally my hope the working group would be in a position to report back by the end of November 2011. It has completed an extensive body of work and I understand its report should be available to me this month.

I have made clear my view that we should have an enhanced human rights and equality commission which not only meets our international obligations in these areas but provides the best possible forum for addressing issues of human rights and equality. I do not want to prejudge the group's report, but I would be surprised if it does not suggest important reforms and innovations. The report will be published and will inform the development of the Bill. The preparation of the legislation has been delayed because the group has taken somewhat longer than anticipated to complete its work. However, I hope to have the Bill published some time after Easter, although I cannot give a specific date. I look forward to receiving the group's report, the contents of which Members of the House will have an opportunity to consider. The Government is open to ensuring there is in place a body with real powers to allow it perform the functions mentioned by the Deputy and which may have a slightly broader remit in some areas than do the two current bodies.

We all know the situation the country is in. In that regard, was the group working within constraints in terms of what initiatives it could bring forward? In other words, were there other initiatives that could have been brought forward in an ideal situation?

The review group was given a broad remit to present from its perspective the best possible option. My duty as Minister is to ensure there are reasonable resources in place for what is established. I cannot pre-empt the decisions the group may make. While I was concerned previously that the Irish Human Rights Alliance was under-resourced, in particular during recent years, substantial resources were made available to the Equality Authority. It is hoped that in having one body there will be an economy of scale, which will provide not alone for its application of powers and objectives but will allow the work to be done at a lesser cost.

In response to the Deputy's question, no financial sum was stated to the review group although it will be conscious of how much money was made available this year and last year to both agencies. My budget for 2012 is not substantially greater than it was for 2011. However, it is not less than what was available for the two agencies, which is to be welcomed. The Government takes seriously its commitment to provide an enhanced independent equality commission to replace the Irish Human Rights Alliance and Equality Authority.

I look forward to receiving the report of the group, which comprises good people whom I know devoted substantial time to their deliberations. I also look forward to the input of that report into the development of the necessary legislation.

Asylum Support Services

Dara Calleary

Question:

64Deputy Dara Calleary asked the Minister for Justice and Equality his plans to create an independent complaint mechanism for asylum seekers reception centres at the Reception and Integration Agency; if he intends to extend the powers of the Ombudsman to cover the area of asylum seekers; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6625/12]

The Reception and Integration Agency, RIA, of my Department currently accommodates more than 5,300 persons across 39 centres. Complaints by centre residents are dealt with in accordance with the procedures outlined in the RIA's house rules, a copy of which is provided to all residents and sets out, inter alia, the obligations on the centre manager and resident. The complaints procedure explains how one party can seek to have breaches of the obligations by the other party resolved.

The thrust of this procedure is that issues are best resolved quickly, locally and informally without the need for a matter to proceed formally. Where more serious complaints cannot be so resolved, residents may lodge a formal written complaint with centre management, to be responded to within 14 days. If the issue remains unresolved, the resident may take his or her complaint to the RIA who will make a determination on it. If a complaint is made in respect of a decision by a particular RIA official, the appeal will not be dealt with by that official. This complaints system is considered by the RIA to be broadly in line with the guidelines set out by the Office of the Ombudsman for internal complaints systems.

The rules specifically state that residents should not be afraid to complain when they need to and that making a statement will not affect how other official agencies consider their claims to remain in the State. The house rules were revised arising from a working party report, which included some NGOs. During those working party discussions, the issue of an independent appeals mechanism was fully discussed. It was the RIA's view that no clear model was cited during these discussions as to the make-up of an independent claims mechanism or how it could be implemented without undue cost and bureaucracy.

In relation to the powers of the Ombudsman, section 5(1)(e) of the Ombudsman Act 1980 provides that the Ombudsman shall not investigate any action taken by or on behalf of a person in the administration of the law relating to asylum. While the office does not currently have the power to investigate asylum related matters, the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service, including the RIA, has in place administrative arrangements with the office to assist and provide information and help resolve any matters brought to its attention.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House.

The question of extending the remit of the Ombudsman is in the first instance a matter for the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and my officials will engage with that Department in relation to any proposals in this regard.

It is important we do not lose sight of the need to ensure the amount of time asylum seekers stay in direct provision is kept to a minimum and that we do not inadvertently open up a new appeal mechanism in the asylum determination system, which already has comprehensive in-built statutorily based appeals mechanisms.

The phrase "internal complaints systems" was used and reflects the difficulty that it will be an internal process, regardless of whether the central manager or the Reception and Integration Agency is involved. The 5,300 people concerned are in a difficult position and do not necessarily wish to draw attention to themselves. In the opinion of the agencies involved, some independent mechanism would engender greater confidence. As for the role of the Ombudsman, in terms of asylum Ireland was a very different place in 1980 and were the Office of the Ombudsman to be involved in a more formal role, an independent system within the Reception and Integration Agency might not be necessary. Given the number of asylum seekers and the extent to which the position in the country has changed since 1980, I again ask the Minister to consider the involvement of the Ombudsman.

There are, of course, fewer people in such accommodation than in previous years. The numbers are falling. I note that during the Deputy's party's 14 year term of office it did not deem it appropriate to introduce a different system such as the one he now advocates.

Extending the remit of the Ombudsman is, in the first instance, a matter for the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform. My officials would be happy to engage with that Department on any such proposals. It is important, however, not to lose sight of the need to ensure the amount of time asylum seekers remain in direct provision accommodation is kept to a minimum. I am concerned that it is far too long owing to the complexities of our immigration and asylum legislation. These issues will be addressed in the legislation being prepared and I hope a better system will be in place by the end of the year which will ensure individuals will not spend as long in direct provision accommodation.

I do not wish to inadvertently open up a new appeals mechanism in an asylum determination system that already has comprehensive in-built statutory-based appeals mechanisms and which is subject to a continuing stream of judicial reviews. While some of the reviews have merit, a considerable number are certainly brought with the intent of trying to remain unlawfully in the State for an extended time in circumstances in which there is no valid basis to seek asylum and the applicants are seeking to prevent their deportation.

Courts Service

Maureen O'Sullivan

Question:

65Deputy Maureen O’Sullivan asked the Minister for Justice and Equality his views on the principle of community courts being used to harness the power of the justice system to address more located crime; and if he considers that a pilot scheme could be initiated within the present resources. [6841/12]

As the Deputy will be aware, the biggest volume of crime in Ireland is tried in the local District Courts which are established pursuant to the Constitution as courts of local and limited jurisdiction. Some jurisdictions also have developed what are sometimes referred to as problem solving courts. Models include community courts, drug courts and restorative programmes. These can vary in character but generally incorporate a combination of sanction for the crime, assistance in rehabilitation and reparation to either the victim or the community in which the offence took place.

Some years ago the National Crime Council published a report entitled, Problem Solving Justice, the Case for Community Courts in Ireland. The report examined the position in the United States and the United Kingdom to ascertain how such courts worked in practice and made recommendations for the establishment of a court on a pilot basis. These recommendations have not been implemented to date and, as the Deputy is aware, are potentially resource-intensive.

There are, however, a number of restorative justice options in operation, including two structural projects based in Nenagh and Tallaght that represent problem solving approaches. Community courts also share many of the characteristics of the Dublin Drug Treatment Court which has operated in the north city centre area for some years and was expanded significantly in 2011. I am considering the possibility of its further expansion.

There are a number of non-custodial sentencing options available to the courts, including suspended sentences, community service orders, fines, compensation orders and probation orders. I am informed the number of community service orders increased by almost 40% in 2011 compared with 2010, with 537 orders being made in the final quarter of 2011 following the commencement on 1 October last of the Criminal Justice (Amendment) Act 2011 which introduced a requirement for judges, when considering the imposition of a sentence of 12 months or less, to first consider the alternative sanction of community service. As the Deputy is aware, community service generally is carried out in the local community, of benefit to that community and costs taxpayers a good deal less than a term of imprisonment.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House.

While the scale of restorative justice initiatives in Ireland is modest, this must be viewed in the context of Ireland's very small prison population. It is worth noting that, according to the Courts Service annual report for 2010, just under 5% of offences heard in the District Court resulted in terms of imprisonment.

In my address last year to the Irish Penal Reform Trust I outlined my commitment to developing workable alternatives to custody which promoted a balanced but targeted rehabilitation of offenders. Since coming to office, I have prioritised a number of relevant initiatives, including the development of a national anti-crime strategy that is at the last stage of preparation in my Department. In addition, a number of key recommendations contained in the Thornton Hall review group report that I published last July are receiving priority attention in my Department, most notably the introduction of an incentivised scheme for early temporary release, under which offenders who posed no threat to the community would be offered early temporary release in return for supervised community service. A further recommendation was the establishment of a strategic review of penal policy which would incorporate an examination and analysis of all aspects of penal policy, including prevention, sentencing policies and alternatives to custody. I intend to establish a working group to further this work in the near future. Work is ongoing to ensure full implementation of the Fines Act 2010.

As the Deputy acknowledges, the introduction of community courts has resource implications, mainly in respect of the intensive multidisciplinary team required by such a court. In the context of the other related developments I have mentioned, I have no plans to choose community courts. It is, however, an option I will keep under review.

Dublin Central has both prisons and prisoners. There is a disproportionate number of people in prison who come from certain areas in the constituency. I accept what the Minister stated in respect of community service, etc., but a community court could play a particular role. I acknowledge the work of the National Crime Council and the Dublin City Business Association in respect of the process relating to that report. Would it not be possible to try to establish a community court on a pilot basis within existing resources? Let us face it, the current system is not working. As one judge stated, the same people are continually being recycled through the system. Would it not be possible to use existing resources to set up a community court which could be located in the inner city, perhaps adjacent to Store Street or Pearse Street, where there are high levels of particular types of crime?

As the Deputy is aware, crime levels in particular areas are influenced by a range of issues and a community court would not provide a panacea in the context of dealing with the various difficulties which exist in such areas. We are engaged in a number of different pilot schemes. I share the Deputy's view that too many people currently within our prisons are serving very short sentences. These individuals pose no risk to the community and would be better dealt with through the community service order system. That is why we introduced the legislation that was enacted last July. Those to whom I refer could be assisted through the restorative justice schemes. There is a need for in-built programmes to deal with both drug and alcohol abuse. There is no point in individuals serving a few short weeks in jail and then returning to the outside world with the addictions which led them to become involved in criminality in the first instance.

As the Deputy may be aware, in the address I delivered to the Irish Penal Reform Trust last year I made a commitment to develop workable alternatives to custody which promote a balanced but targeted rehabilitation of offenders. Since coming to office I have prioritised a number of initiatives, including the development of a national anti-crime strategy, which is currently at an advanced stage. The Deputy may also be aware that we are operating a pilot scheme to which I referred previously in the House, whereby prisoners who are serving sentences within the prison system, who are of good behaviour and who pose no risk to the community but who have not yet reached the stage where they are eligible for remission may be released subject to their signing an agreement and condition that they do community service. I am advised that this scheme is working well. I hope we will have an opportunity to extend it in the future.

I welcome everything the Minister said and I am personally committed to the notion of restorative justice because there are some very good examples of where this works. However, I remain of the view that there is a role for community courts and the judges who would operate them. Such courts have very direct connections with the communities in which they are located. It is, after all, certain communities in particular areas which are plagued by what is termed low level crime, although that is not how those who live in such communities would categorise it, especially as their lives are being disturbed. To give offenders the opportunity to make amends to communities is the best way to put an end to the revolving door system.

The best way for an offender to make amends to a community is through community service. The Probation Service is involved in extensive engagement in this area. The effect of the community service orders legislation was evident in the final quarter of 2011 when it became apparent that there had been a substantial increase in the making of community service orders. I welcome the latter development. It will be interesting to see what will be the pattern for 2012 in its entirety. I expect there will be a similar increase as the courts become used to the new legal arrangements that are in place.

The establishment of a new community court, even on a pilot basis, would require additional resources. I am operating a Department which has €100 million less available to it for 2012. For a community court to operate successfully, there would be a need for multidisciplinary staff with particular expertise to be employed because it would otherwise be a community court in name only. Unfortunately, I do not currently possess the resources to allow me to employ additional people in that context.

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