Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 8 Mar 2012

Vol. 758 No. 3

Topical Issue Debate

Foreign Conflicts

Deputy Arthur Spring

I welcome the opportunity to discuss the dire situation in Syria. What is happening in that country shows the lack of respect for human life by President Assad. He calls himself president, yet the country has been run by himself and his father for 41 consecutive years. Assad was elected unopposed in 2000 and 2007. Unfortunately, now we see why no opponents put themselves forward for these elections by the way of the current regime. There is a cruel irony in this, as President Assad is a trained medical doctor who worked in hospitals in Damascus for many years prior to getting involved in so-called politics, and, in reality, as we all will be aware, replaced his father as a dictator of Syria.

When I learned of his background in medicine and of his years in working in hospitals, it aroused suspicion within me as to how much control the army has over the killings that are taking place in Syria and the level of collusion that was shown in "Prime Time" on Monday night between the medics and the army. This evidence leads me to believe that international sanctions currently being imposed on Syria will not bother President Assad and the army which is propping up this regime at his behest. He was put in power with the approval of the army and it shows what kind of regime it is.

In Kosovo in the 1990s and in Rwanda also, the international community was slow to react and, subsequently, we found out that thousands of people, and in the Rwanda case hundreds of thousands, had been massacred. I would like to see further intervention, possibly from the UN and NATO. I want Ireland to put pressure on the international dimensions that exist for us to do so. It is not enough to stand idly by, and especially when one sees organisations such as the Red Cross being prevented from entering borders at present. We need to raise the profile of what is going on but we also need action. I am appalled by what I perceive to be Russia's and China's lack of interest in human life.

Deputy Eoghan Murphy

Recently, Deputies Spring, Ann Phelan and I were in Vienna as part of the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe's parliamentary assembly. At that meeting, we discussed the issue in Syria. Unfortunately, it does not pertain directly to the work of the OSCE but we felt what was happening there was so grave that it was our duty as parliamentarians from across the OSCE regions to raise this matter. At the conclusion of the meeting, Parliamentary Assembly President Efthymiou, from Greece, read out the following statement the assembly:

As President of the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly, I deeply regret the violence and loss of life in Syria. As OSCE participating states and partners for co-operation have expressed their concern about the current situation, I call for a full respect of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the country. I salute the journalists who have paid such a heavy price to keep the world informed.

At the end of that statement, the parliamentarians there supported him in it. As the head of the delegation that went to the OSCEPA, I repeat that statement here to voice my support for it. When we speak of intervention in this context, we are talking very much about humanitarian intervention. What we have seen in Syria is medical care being used as a tool for repression, and it is disgusting.

I would very much like to know what our policy is as a country. We were very quick to support NATO military intervention in Libya when it occurred, yet we are not so quick in this case. Why the discrepancy between the two?

Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Deputy Shane McEntee)

The matter is close to everybody's heart. By right, we should be discussing this for a couple of hours rather than a couple of minutes. We stated it would never happen again after the Second World War and it has happened several times since. In this case, I hate to think that we must wait another four years for the truth when people are being butchered by their own government.

Horrific suffering and a campaign of ruthless repression is being visited upon the civilian population in Syria. The Government, in concert with its EU partners, has strived to exert strong and united political pressure on the Syrian regime to end its campaign of repression and make decisive progress towards fulfilling the aspirations of the Syrian people for a democratic transition. The grim facts of this conflict are truly horrifying. Credible reports of more than 7,500 people killed since March last, an estimated 200,000 internally displaced persons, and 35,000 who have fled to other countries as refugees. According to the latest report of the commission of inquiry established by the UN Human Rights Council to investigate events in Syria, state forces stand accused of committing widespread and gross human rights violations which amount to crimes against humanity. They have done this, apparently, with the knowledge and consent of President Assad and his regime.

There is no doubting the widespread international revulsion. This is evident from the overwhelming support for various resolutions adopted by the UN General Assembly and the UN Human Rights Council in recent weeks. It was also evident at the initial meeting of the Friends of the Syrian People group, which the Tánaiste attended in Tunis on 24 February and where more than 70 countries gathered to voice their support for the Syrian people and for international efforts to end the conflict and promote peaceful democratic transition within Syria. There is an obligation on the international community to do all it can to end the violence and suffering of the Syrian people and to help them to chart a new way forward.

The immediate priority must be to secure a ceasefire which will end the indiscriminate shelling of cities such as Horns and Rastan and at the same time provide the UN, ICRC and others with humanitarian access. The visit yesterday of the UN emergency relief co-ordinator, Baroness Amos, to the Baba Amr district of Homs revealed the true extent of the human catastrophe. She reported that the area had been completely devastated and most inhabitants had fled to other parts of the city or nearby villages. It is vital that full humanitarian access to the whole country is achieved urgently.

It is regrettable that the UN Security Council has so far failed to agree a resolution on the situation. The Government regards it as a welcome development that discussions have now got under way at the UN on a new draft resolution primarily addressing the humanitarian situation. It is incumbent upon the Security Council to live up to its responsibilities in the area of the maintenance of international peace and security and to adopt a resolution at the earliest opportunity on the situation in Syria. No other action could better convey to the Syrian regime the strength of the international condemnation of what is happening in that country.

Acting Chairman (Deputy Peter Mathews)

The Minister of State's time is up.

Deputy Shane McEntee

I will conclude shortly. In saying all of this, we must be also realistic about what the international community can accomplish in regard to Syria. There is little or no appetite anywhere for any form of external intervention. This also extends to any idea of arming those now opposed to the Syrian regime. We must never fail to remember that Syria is a country through which many fault lines run, whether political, ethnic or religious. The worst-case scenario would be if Syria were to slip into an open civil war which would be profoundly destabilising for the entire region.

Deputy Ann Phelan

I am grateful for the opportunity to add my voice on this situation and that my comments will be on the record of the House. There are new lows happening every day in the Homs area of Syria, where it is now being reported that local hospitals are unable or unwilling to provide blood transfusions to patients in dire need because the medical blood banks in Syria come under the aegis of its Department of Justice. I ask the Tánaiste to bring his weight to bear in order that this situation be rectified. I do not believe I have heard anything as low as this in my time. Anecdotally, we hear that some members of staff seem to be taking part in this, which is abominable.

Deputy Eoghan Murphy

I thank the Minister of State for his reply. There is incredible hypocrisy on the part of the international community. While I am not calling for military intervention, there are other things we can do. We are reading reports from Médecins Sans Frontières about problems in terms of resources and supplies, including getting medical supplies into the necessary areas. Deputy Ann Phelan touched on this point. What kind of financial resources are we willing to put behind some sort of medical assistance? Are we examining ways of getting medical assistance into the country to help those areas that do not have the necessary supplies, including supplies of blood, and expertise, given people have had to flee?

Deputy Shane McEntee

In a statement the Tánaiste outlined the widespread international revulsion at what is currently taking place in Syria and the steps which are being taken by concerned members of the international community to try to put a halt to the killings, repression and terror currently being inflicted by the Assad regime and its forces upon the Syrian people. The League of Arab States is playing a particularly important role at present in the peace plan outlined last November, and agreed at that stage by the Syrian authorities, which still provides the only credible plan for bringing the violence to an end and initiating a peaceful transition in Syria. The Arab League has made other important contributions to current efforts to resolve the crisis in Syria, including the monitoring mission deployed in late December and subsequently withdrawn due to the non-co-operation of the Syrian regime.

Arab League Ministers called for an international peacekeeping force to be deployed and the idea of a joint UN-Arab peacekeeping mission was positively considered at the recent meeting of the Friends of the Syrian People held in Tunis on 24 February, which the Tánaiste attended. However, a ceasefire would first need to be in place before any possible peacekeeping mission could be deployed. In addition, some form of authorisation or mandate for such a mission from the UN Security Council would be highly desirable. It is by no means clear that any such agreement would be forthcoming from the Security Council at present, given current Russian and Chinese attitudes. For the moment, international efforts to broker a ceasefire are concentrating on the mediation by the joint UN-Arab League special envoy, former UN Secretary General, Mr. Kofi Annan, whose mission Ireland and the EU fully support. It is hoped Mr. Annan will be in a position to travel to Damascus for discussions in the coming days.

In conclusion, I can only reiterate the Tánaiste's words of yesterday that there are no easy solutions to what is a very complex political situation now obtaining in Syria, nor should we view any form of external military intervention or, alternatively, arming the badly divided Syrian opposition, as offering any form of panacea. Such forms of action or intervention are, unfortunately, only likely to accelerate the descent into open civil war in Syria, a civil war, moreover, which would provide profound destabilisation for the entire region, not least neighbouring countries such as Iraq and Lebanon.

Gender Equality

Deputy Mary Mitchell O’Connor

Today is international women's day. In deference to this auspicious day, I call on the Government to legislate for a corporate board quota similar to that of Norway. This would compliment the Electoral (Amendment) (Political Funding) Bill, which proposes an increase in women's representation on the ballot paper for the Dáil.

Irish female representation on corporate boards is dismal. In March 2011 women made up only 6% of directors in our biggest company boardrooms. Almost all of our 35 largest Stock Exchange-listed firms have no women board members at all. These are the heavy hitters, with market capitalisation of €5 billion. In terms of female decision making in the Civil Service, the statistics are also depressing. There is nearly twice the number of females as males working in the Civil Service yet, at the highest ranks, they are far outnumbered by men. At the highest level of Secretary General, women account for only 17.6%, while at the clerical officer level, women occupy 77.3% of posts.

The most widely known example of quotas for corporate boards is in Norway, where a 40% gender quota exists. These boards are in public, limited, state-owned and inter-municipality companies. The quota policy was introduced in Norway in December 2003 but gave companies a grace period until 2008 to reach the target. Female representation increased gradually before it dramatically jumped from 15.9% in 2004 to 37% in 2007 and finally reached the 40% target in 2008. Legislated board quotas have since been introduced in Spain in 2007 and in France and the Netherlands in 2010. Quotas for public limited companies are also being discussed in Belgium, Canada and Italy, where laws are pending at different stages of the ratification process.

Ireland's big investors seem to be averse to the implementation of a gender quota system. Companies in Norway were also quite against the idea in the first instance. It was argued that companies would be forced to appoint less qualified people as board members just because of their gender. However, studies have since revealed that 36% of female board members in Norway have a university education lasting six years or more, compared to just 22% of their male counterparts. I ask that a corporate quota to increase women's representation be put in place.

Deputy Shane McEntee

Given it is international women's day, I must say they are all looking very well today in the Dáil. I welcome the opportunity afforded by this debate to underline the Government's strong commitment to improving corporate governance, particularly in light of the serious shortcomings of corporate governance revealed in the recent past in both the private and the State sector. The quality of board governance is key to the successful and prudent management of enterprises. Since the Government took office, we have made changes to the system of appointment to State boards to ensure greater transparency and balance. Departments now invite expressions of interest in vacancies on the boards of bodies under their aegis on their websites.

When requested, the Public Appointments Service provides a selection and support service to Departments and offices where State board vacancies have been advertised on their websites. In short-listing applicants, the Public Appointments Service gives due regard to the recent experience of applicants to ensure an appropriate mix of skills and gender.

The programme for Government also contains a commitment that: "Public funding for political parties will be tied to the level of participation by women as candidates those parties achieve". The Electoral (Amendment) (Political Funding) Bill 2011 includes provision for a requirement that to qualify for full State funding under Part 3 of the Electoral Act 1997, a qualified political party will have to have at least 30% female candidates and at least 30% male candidates at the next general election - I do not know where that leaves the rest. Seven years from the general election where this provision first applies, this will rise to 40% commencing at the general election held next after that. When the Bill is passed, the intended outcome will be effectively to double that figure to 30% within one general election cycle, which is very ambitious.

In March 2011 the Government announced in the programme for Government that it will take steps to ensure that all State boards have at least 40% of each gender. While that has been a long-standing goal in public policy, it is a challenge to achieve it. The figures for the end of 2010 show that the participation rate for women on State boards is 34.67%, which is slightly above the 2009 rate, but still short of the 40% target. The position of women chairpersons is more encouraging however, up from 46 to 52 in 2010, or from 18% to 20%.

Quotas or incentives may have a role to play but there are wider societal factors that impede the participation of women in public and corporate life. In the general context, the issue of gender balance and corporate governance was the subject of a public consultation last year by Internal Market and Services Commissioner, Michel Barnier. The Commission summary of the outcome noted that the majority of respondents rejected the idea of listed companies being required to ensure better gender balance on boards. The respondents that were in favour proposed different means for achieving a better gender balance, starting with a voluntary approach for a transitional period, followed by compulsory measures if need be.

The Government will keep the situation under review and consider what further action may be needed to achieve the desired target. It is noteworthy that the Electoral (Amendment) (Political Funding) Bill 2011 does not compel or oblige parties by law per se to provide a quota of candidates of a particular gender but operates by way of encouragement and incentive.

Deputy Mary Mitchell O’Connor

I welcome the Government's forthcoming Electoral (Amendment) (Political Funding) Bill 2011. However, I also wish to highlight the gender pay gap. The unadjusted gender pay gap in October 2009 was 12.8%, an increase from 12.4% in October 2008. I acknowledge that women have made strides in many respects, however, as a Government we must respond to gender barriers and tackle issues that hinder women's ability to fulfil their full potential. For example, today Safe Ireland launched its national one day census of domestic violence services 2011. It reported that on the 4 November 2011, a total of 770 women and children received support from a domestic violence service. Furthermore, the gender inequality in the time use 2008 report indicated that on an average day women spend two hours 29 minutes at caring work and two hours 36 minutes at house work. By comparison, on an average day men spend 39 minutes caring and one hour and 15 minutes, which I question, at house work. There is a large discrepancy between the two.

I wish to draw attention to a statement made at the recent Davos summit by Facebook's Sheryl Sandberg. She called for girls to be more ambitious at work and men to be more ambitious at home. We must create an Ireland where this is possible.

Deputy Shane McEntee

I might not answer that point at all.

Acting Chairman (Deputy Peter Mathews)

I was not approached about the survey.

Deputy Shane McEntee

I wonder what answer Deputy Mathews might have given. One is ashamed, especially when one sees the manner in which women are treated in other countries. Everyone must strive to achieve equality. We are all the same and we are all entitled to the same wages and to be in the same positions. With people such as Deputy Mitchell O'Connor fighting for that aim it is not too far away in this country. One cannot force anything on people but one must create the situation in which it can happen. I thank the Deputy for raising the subject.

School Staffing

Deputy Seán Crowe

The cuts to the school in question in this matter arise from budget 2012. At the time I said the budget, in particular the education budget, lacked balance and in many cases was affecting the most vulnerable. The school in question was informed that it would lose eight teachers, who were informed of the loss of their jobs during the week. The school is typical of many schools throughout the country. One of the big concerns we all have as elected representatives is that the effect of the budget is only beginning to affect many schools. The loss of eight teachers constitutes a reduction of one third in the staffing complement of the school.

Taking the family background of the school pupils into account one could probably argue that if the DEIS programme was open to other schools that it would be included in DEIS. Unfortunately, the current system prevents schools from becoming involved in DEIS. If the school was in DEIS it would not lose some of the legacy posts. Part of the difficulty is that four of the posts date from the pre-DEIS scheme, giving children an even break. The legacy posts in DEIS schools are being retained. However, in a school such as the one in question, which probably fits the criteria of DEIS, they are not being retained. DEIS was never intended to create barriers to other schools; it was supposed to dismantle barriers but unfortunately the children in this school will be affected.

The area is one of high unemployment and there is a refugee centre close to the school. The number of children coming and going from the school can vary at different times of the year. That in itself can have implications. The school is losing one post because of a projected drop in school numbers. The proximity of the refugee centre may have a major impact on the situation.

I do not know whether the Minister can answer the questions posed. This is just one school. I do not know how many schools will be affected in a similar way. Schools in my area, which is the same area as the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Pat Rabbitte, who is present, may lose five teachers. It is not sustainable for any school to lose that number of teachers. As I stated, we are being drip fed information on this matter. Some of the posts will be withdrawn from 31 August next, which means the school is facing into a bleak future. I am concerned about the impact of these cuts on children in this school. Neither they nor their parents are responsible for the creation of the crisis in our country.

Deputy Seamus Healy

Last Saturday, I learned from parents and teachers in Carrick-on-Suir that eight of the 25 teaching posts at the Presentation primary school there are being withdrawn by the Minister. The school received notification of this on 29 February last. The loss of this number of teaching posts is unacceptable. This, effectively, is an assault on students and teachers at the school and on the community in Carrick-on-Suir. Four of the posts concerned are pre-DEIS posts allocated under the giving children an even break scheme, two are learning support posts, one is a language support post, which allocation was, as stated by Deputy Crowe, granted because there are many children in the school whose first language is not English. The final post is being drawn based on enrolment regulations. While enrolment at the school was down by seven on 1 September last it may have increased by 1 September next. However, the post will have been withdrawn.

The withdrawal of these eight teaching posts is a bolt out of blue for the school and is devastating news for the local community. These posts were allocated to the school in 2006 on the basis of social issues, including that Carrick-on-Suir is a RAPID town. One might wonder what has happened since to support the withdrawal of these eight teaching posts. However, nothing has happened except that the situation in Carrick-on-Suir has worsened. For example, on the date the Department sent notification to the school of the withdrawal of these teaching posts there were more than 2,000 unemployed people in Carrick-on-Suir. When the four posts allocated to the school under the Giving Children an Even Break scheme was made there were 958 unemployed in that town. Unemployment in Carrick-on-Suir has more than doubled in the intervening time.

As I stated, this is unacceptable. I call on the Minister to immediately reverse the decision to withdraw these teaching posts.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I welcome the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, to the House. The Government must have anticipated the Labour Party would be holding its party this evening given he has been left to respond to the two remaining topical issue debates. Members of Fine Gael expected to be celebrating this morning. However, thanks to the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, that party did not get under way nor should it have.

I support my colleagues on this issue. I am aware that Senator Landy, who is a good colleague of the Minister, will also be making representations on this matter to the Minister for Education and Skills. The withdrawal of eight teaching posts, or one-third of the teaching population, from this school is unsustainable. It is akin to the 66% cut in training and material funding for CE schemes. This is what we are getting from a Minister and party which sent out letters prior to the election, through SIPTU and others, urging CE participants and so on to vote for the Labour Party.

These cuts are unsustainable. The school might have survived the withdrawal of one or two posts but not eight. Carrick-on-Suir has been on its knees for decades. I do not wish to talk down the town wherein I know there are many good and enterprising people. It is a RAPID town which, as Deputy Healy stated, is experiencing massive unemployment, with more than 2,000 people unemployed which figure is as high or, perhaps, higher than in Clonmel which is several times the size of Carrick-on-Suir. While the people of Carrick-on-Suir are resourceful the school cannot sustain this type of attack.

While the school is not a DEIS school it was granted four extra posts under the giving the children an even break scheme. This cut is unacceptable to the school, board of management, parents council and Presentation Sisters. We will not accept it.

I was previously a board member of Carrick-on-Suir VEC. As stated, the town is currently experiencing massive unemployment, leaving families in great disadvantage. While the primary school failed in its application for DEIS status, the VEC school under the principalship of Mr. Pat Callanan, has been granted DEIS status. I pay tribute to Mr. Callanan who recently retired. Approximately 80% of boys from the primary school feed into that college. It makes no sense that the primary school has been refused DEIS status.

I know that the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, played a huge role in having cuts to DEIS schools in his area reversed. The Minister was quite vocal on this issue. I call on the Minister for Education and Skills to listen to the pleas of the people on Carrick-on-Suir, Deputies in this House and Senator Denis Landy. We cannot accept a one third cut in teaching posts at this school, which is, by any benchmark, totally unfair. The school cannot do without a working principal who is, owing to disciplinary issues, a huge resource to the school. His assistance in the classroom is vital. If his post is withdrawn the remaining teachers will be left in an awful situation, which is not good enough.

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Pat Rabbitte)

I am responding on behalf of my colleague, the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Quinn, who regrets he is unable to be here, to this matter regarding the allocation process for primary schools, including the reforms to the teacher allocation process that are being made and will take effect from September 2012.

While the Government has tried to protect front line services, difficult choices had to be made to identify savings across all Departments, in line with the requirements of the EU-IMF programme of support for Ireland. Achieving savings in education is particularly difficult given the significant increases in the overall number of pupils in our schools. Notwithstanding this the Government has protected the 28:1 pupil-teacher ratio at primary level, prioritised targeted support for the most disadvantaged schools and maintained the overall number of resource teachers and SNAs to support children with special needs.

The staffing arrangements for the 2012-13 school year are set out in primary circular 0007/2012 which is available on the Department of Education and Skills website. This includes the detail of the reform of the allocation process, which is designed to bring a more equitable distribution of existing posts between schools. The new arrangements incorporate a long overdue updating of the GAM, learning support, allocation for all schools. This inevitably involves changes to existing clustering arrangements whereby a teacher is shared between schools. A further change is that schools in any locality are being empowered to cluster and arrange their GAM resources in a manner that best suits their local needs. This should be completed by schools by 16 March.

There are also new and separate arrangements for how resource hours for individual pupils are converted into teaching posts in schools. The requirement for resource hours in a school varies from year to year, depending on the number, if any, of its pupils with autism etc. Small schools generally have a lower requirement for resource hours. The new arrangements take account of the later timescale for the allocation of these hours necessitated by individual assessment by the NCSE. All of the changes are designed to enable a more efficient operation of the teacher allocation and redeployment process in the new climate of a fixed ceiling of teacher numbers.

Deputies will be aware that Budget 2012 provided for the phased withdrawal of approximately 428 posts allocated to some schools under disadvantage programmes prior to the introduction of the DEIS, Delivering Equality of Opportunity in Schools, initiative in 2005. As already announced, the withdrawal of 192 posts from primary schools outside DEIS band 1 and 2 and from DEIS second level schools will proceed, including the 38 posts from 15 non-DEIS schools, which includes the school referred to by the Deputies and in respect of which representations have been made to the Minister by Senator Denis Landy.

The staffing schedule also includes an appeals mechanism for schools to submit an appeal under certain criteria to an independent appeals board. Details of the criteria for appeals are contained in the aforementioned primary circular. The existing staffing appeals criteria have been extended to enable limited phasing arrangements for schools where the combination of budget and reform measures has a particularly adverse impact on a school's overall allocation. Schools such as the one referred to by my colleagues in the House which are due to lose three or more posts as a result of a combination of the budget and reform measures will be able to apply to the staffing appeals board with a view to seeking to have a portion of the loss in posts deferred to the 2013-14 school year. The closing date for submission of appeals for the April meeting of the appeals board is 23 March. The appeals board operates independently of the Department and its decision is final. The precise date in April for the appeals board meeting has not yet been set, but it is envisaged it will be held before redeployment panels are published. This, therefore, will avoid surplus permanent teachers being unnecessarily placed on the published redeployment panels in respect of those schools which are successful in the appeals process. However, it is important to note that all schools which have surplus permanent teachers for redeployment are required to return the completed redeployment forms to the Department on or before Friday, 16 March.

The Department will be working with schools and the relevant education partners to ensure these new arrangements operate as efficiently as possible. The final staffing position for all schools, including the school in question, ultimately will not be known until later in 2012. At that stage, the allocation process will be fully completed and any appeals to the appeals board will have been considered.

Deputy Seán Crowe

I do not know what I could say to a parent of a pupil attending the school in question and who listened to the Minister's reply. It is a pity it does not include the number of schools which are losing three or more teachers in this manner, as that would be useful information to have in this debate. Nevertheless, the school and many like it nationwide are being doubly disadvantaged because they are not allowed to participate in the DEIS programme which has been closed. Consequently, they will lose their legacy posts. While the Minister has made reference to the appeals process, that really is putting off the inevitable and many such schools will be hit very hard. I appeal for a review of this issue. The Minister has stated he will examine the schools mentined and will open up a debate on the issue. However, a review is needed which I hope would solve some of the problems for the school in question.

Deputy Seamus Healy

I had hoped the Minister would accept this was an extraordinary and exceptional situation because I had certainly not encountered a case involving the withdrawal of eight teachers, or one third of the teaching staff of a school. Moreover, I remind the Minister that last year this school lost three special needs assistants, SNAs, and will lose a further SNA this year. I ask him to consider putting in place a process by which the school might be able to enter the DEIS programme for which it is undoubtedly a candidate because of the various matters I have raised.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I thank the Minister for the reply on behalf of the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Ruairí Quinn, who I accept is not present for bona fide reasons. This is a typical situation in which the mandarins in the Department have designed different schemes, including the DEIS scheme, with different rules, guidelines and processes. However, this is a human problem that must be dealt with humanely because, by any yardstick, one cannot possibly accept the loss of one third of the teaching posts in a school. This is a clear example of how the best of man-made schemes can go wrong. I appeal to the Minister to meet a deputation comprising the school management, Senator Landy and the Deputies present. Moreover, I note that, in addition to the loss of the teaching posts, the school has also lost SNA posts. This is unacceptable and untenable. I accept the reply gives a glimmer of hope, in that there is an appeal system in place and that the case will be re-examined. However, the loss of eight teachers is too great and the school will be unable to continue as a result. The town of Carrick-on-Suir cannot and will not accept this. Consequently, I seek a meeting between a deputation and the Minister to examine the nuances in this regard as the school cannot be pigeonholed.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

The reason there is no reference to any other school is the question I was asked to answer on behalf of the Minister for Education and Skills is particular to the school in Carrick-on-Suir. Moreover, without being knowledgeable, I doubt whether there are many such examples elsewhere in the system. I draw the attention of Deputies Healy, Mattie McGrath and Crowe to the provision in the appeals system whereby a school which is losing three or more posts as a result of the combined impact of the reform measures and the budgetary allocation can make an appeal before 16 March in the reasonable expectation that some of the loss will be deferred to the subsequent school year. I will, of course, take the time to explain to the Minister for Education and Skills the fervent advocacy of the Deputies about this school which I have visited once. I am very familiar with the circumstances in Carrick-on-Suir and will represent that view to the Minister.

Broadcasting Services

Deputy Sean Fleming

The Minister will be aware that a special meeting of the RTE Authority has been called for tomorrow following the upholding of a complaint by the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland about the unfairness of the final television presidential election debate on RTE last year. Everyone will remember this issue well because between 800,000 and 900,000 people watched the programme live. The Broadcasting Authority of Ireland stated the station had made no apparent effort to verify the source and accuracy of a tweet broadcast during the "The Frontline" programme. The tweet was incorrectly described by the presenter, Mr. Pat Kenny, as having been issued by the official Martin McGuinness campaign. Since the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland's findings were released, RTE's Noel Curran has apologised for the mistake made in the programme, but, importantly, he has refused to countenance an inquiry into the matter. Although he stated, "We have been found against and we have to learn from that," I do not consider this to be sufficient, which is the reason I am raising this matter.

RTE accepts it made two errors. First, the veracity and source of the first tweet, the text of which is well known to many by now, should have been checked. In addition, RTE also accepts that the second tweet, correcting the earlier one, was received approximately 28 minutes before the conclusion of the programme and that it should have been mentioned during it. The Broadcasting Authority of Ireland stated the radio programme broadcast the following morning, coincidentally with the same presenter, Mr. Pat Kenny, had exacerbated the unfairness of the debate on "The Frontline" by failing to clarify the tweet. The RTE compliance committee, chaired by Mr. Chris Morash, has stated it agrees that Mr. Kenny did not take the opportunity to verify the content or provenance of the tweet with Mr. McGuinness during the debate. It has also stated it notes that information was available during the programme that clarified the tweet account at the centre of the complaint was not an official Sinn Féin Twitter account.

To some extent, on the face of it, the RTE compliance committee is dumping on Mr. Pat Kenny. RTE is a public service broadcaster. The board must appoint an independent investigator to establish the facts and the sequence of events that night. Everyone, including the Minister who spoke on the "Morning Ireland" radio programme, accepts that it had an impact on the outcome of the election campaign. I cannot say by how much or by how little, but the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland is not going down that road. While it would be impossible to establish at this point, owing to the privacy of the ballot box, no one disputes that it had an impact on the outcome of the campaign.

The reputational damage to RTE in this instance is extremely serious. In fairness to the staff at the station, particularly Pat Kenny, it is important that corrective action should be taken. It is also important that Mr. Kenny should take the opportunity both to preserve his good name and clarify the position. I am of the view that Mr. Kenny acted in a genuine and above-board way in respect of this matter. He has an extremely good reputation as being one of the best broadcasters in Ireland. It is clear that the tweet in question was received in RTE but the compliance committee of the BAI has stated that Mr. Kenny did not avail of the opportunity to put it to Martin McGuinness, MLA, during the programme. Some people might presume that Mr. Kenny was aware of the information and did not broadcast the fact that there was a second tweet. I do not know what was the position but I suspect Mr. Kenny did not have it. However, it would be in his interests to clarify the position.

RTE must put in place protocols, similar to those which already obtain at the BBC, in respect of social networking. I ask that the board of RTE appoint an independent person to carry out an investigation in respect of what happened on the night in question. I make this request because since the original complaint was lodged with the BAI, the management at RTE vigorously defended its actions right up until the authority issued its report. Those who manage RTE have not been willing to accept that mistakes were made. The RTE Authority must appoint an independent person to carry out an investigation.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

I am sure Deputy Sean Fleming will permit me to point out that both the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland, BAI, and RTE are independent bodies, each with clear roles and functions established under the Broadcasting Act 2009. The compliance committee of the BAI is charged, under section 48 of that Act, with investigating and deciding upon different categories of complaints. It would be inappropriate for me to comment on the manner in which the BAI conducts its work, just as it would be inappropriate for me, as Minister, to interfere in the editorial affairs of RTE. I am sure the House will understand that I must be circumspect in what I say for a number of other reasons, not least because of the fact that the RTE board has not yet considered the BAI's findings or issued a formal statement on the matter. I fully accept, however, that, as Deputy Sean Fleming stated, this is a serious matter. I am sure most people will agree with the adjudication of the BAI to the effect that the use of the relevant tweet in this fashion was ill-considered. There are lessons to be learned from this matter by everyone involved in the media in this country.

I agree with the Deputy's comments to the effect that the presenter concerned is an eminent broadcaster who has an unparalleled record and reputation in the area of public affairs programmes. However, this matter is serious from a number of perspectives. News and current affairs in RTE, which is a public service broadcaster, are generally regarded as the gold standard for broadcast journalism in this State. People have the right to expect the very highest of standards from a public service broadcaster, even more so in cases as important as this which relates to one of the final debates of a presidential election campaign. It is also serious because it calls into question the manner in which traditional broadcast media deal with and report on new media. In that context, I welcome the fact that RTE, through its director general, Mr. Noel Curran, has already acknowledged that mistakes were made in the course of the programme in question and that the relevant tweet should have been handled quite differently. Mr. Curran has apologised to Mr. Gallagher.

There are a number of larger points in question here. First, it is clear that the extremely competitive environment in which the media operate should not be allowed to impugn journalistic standards. Second, it is also clear that substantial lessons need to be learned from this experience in respect of the manner in which journalists deal with material garnered from social media. The arrival of widespread Internet access and social media have come to pose huge challenges for traditional broadcasters, not just in the context of a major increase in the number of sources but also in terms of the massive increase in competition for audiences. Broadcast media clearly feel they have to be seen to engage with this new media in case they might be seen to be slow and cumbersome or as being somehow unreflective of the zeitgeist. This does not mean that basic journalistic standards can be allowed to lapse. I am, however, encouraged by the fact that the director general of RTE has confirmed that a new set of guidelines for programme makers at the station will reinforce protocols around the authentication of social media and other inputs to programmes.

Deputy Sean Fleming

Minister, I do have to put it to you personally that the central issue here we are talking about revolved around a political donation. My understanding is that-----

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

Will the Deputy repeat that?

Deputy Sean Fleming

The central issue here involved the content of what the tweet was about, namely, a political donation. My understanding is that the Minister personally canvassed for the successful candidate in the presidential election. I do not know whether he signed the candidate's nomination forms. I understand that he personally made a financial donation to the successful candidate. The Minister had a personal, financial, vested interest in the outcome of the election campaign. I thought the least which would have happened, given the Minister came before the House today, was that he would have declared his personal interest in this campaign, in view of the fact that we are talking about a political donation. I was surprised he came before the House to take this matter when a Minister of State took the earlier matters.

I genuinely believe that the proper procedure here would be to have a Minister other than Deputy Rabbitte, and possibly other than a Labour Party Minister, who made a financial contribution to the campaign of one of the candidates to deal with this specific, narrow issue. I am not talking about RTE which does a great job, but to this specific, narrow issue. In the interests of impartiality and fairness, I think the Minister should personally step aside from dealing with this particular issue because of his declared financial interest in the election campaign and his contribution. The good name and reputation of RTE are at stake. In the interests of RTE, please have some other Minister who is not personally compromised or conflicted in relation to the particular campaign and the outcome of the election result deal with this particular issue from now on.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

I am not often lost for words but in all my time in this House I have never less anticipated a line of questioning than we have just heard from my friend, Deputy Fleming. The innuendo is outrageous. Of course, it is a matter of public record that I canvassed on behalf of my former parliamentary colleague - of course it is true. I was canvassing with him on the day on which the programme in question was broadcast. Of course it is true that I made a financial donation to his campaign. That donation was twice the size that has been reported in some quarters. I understand that matter has since been corrected with the appropriate authorities.

To suggest that because I campaigned on behalf of my former parliamentary colleague has any bearing on an investigation of a complaint on behalf of a defeated candidates in the presidential election is little short of outrageous. I did not conduct this inquiry. Under the Broadcasting Act 2009, the investigation is a matter for an independent body, namely, the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland. It is a matter for the authority to consider certain categories of complaint. The Broadcasting Authority of Ireland considered this complaint and found that, in the particular regard referred to, it was unfair to Mr. Gallagher. Earlier this morning I said most reasonable people in the country would agree with that conclusion. That continues to be my view. I do not know how in heaven's name Deputy Sean Fleming can think that I am conflicted in my approach to this issue. It is a matter for an independent statutorily established body, the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland, to investigate a complaint such as this and it has done so. It has found grounds for the complaint and it is a matter for the RTE authorities to respond as appropriate when the board meets.