It is proposed to take Nos. 7 to 12, inclusive, motions re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of Regulations of the European Parliament and of the Council and of the exercise by the State of the options or discretions in respect of Regulation (EU) No. 1077/2011; and No. 19, Finance Bill 2012 — Order for Report, Report and Final Stages. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that Nos. 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12 shall be taken immediately on the conclusion of the Order of Business and shall be moved together and decided without debate by one question which shall be put from the Chair; the proceedings on Report and Final Stages of No. 19 shall, if not previously concluded be brought to a conclusion at 6.30 p.m. tomorrow, by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Finance. Private Members' business shall be No. 47, motion re lending rates and arrangements.
Order of Business
There are two proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 7 to 12, inclusive, agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 19 agreed to? Agreed.
Will the Taoiseach outline when the credit registry Bill is expected before the House? This is a long-awaited Bill and the lack of a centralised source of credit data has been identified as one of the main culprits in the banks having such extensive loan books. There was an expectation that the legislation would be ready by the end of February. It is an important Bill. Will the Taoiseach indicate why there is a delay in its publication and when can we expect it?
Which Bill was it again?
The credit registry Bill.
I cannot give the Deputy a date. I will have to come back to him on it.
The Governor of the Central Bank has spoken on it.
I am aware of that. I will give the Deputy the up-to-date position. I do not have them all here.
The Taoiseach would want to get on top of it.
There are so many of them.
Iarraim go gcuirfí am ar leataobh chun díospóireacht a dhéanamh ar dhá ábhar. I would like the Taoiseach to allow time for debates on two pressing issues and instruct the Whips accordingly. The first would be on the promissory note, which we discussed earlier. Given the level of public concern over the billions of euro being paid to Anglo Irish Bank, will the Taoiseach set aside time for this important issue to be debated in the House?
The second is on yesterday's joint declaration by the Taoiseach and the British Prime Minister, tá mé ag iarraidh go mbéadh díospóireacht air sin fosta. Such a debate would give the Taoiseach an opportunity to report to the House on his progress in respect of a range of issues, including whether the British Prime Minister responded to the Oireachtas's demand for an inquiry into the Dublin-Monaghan bombings, the Ballymurphy massacre and the killing of Pat Finucane.
Requesting time for debates is a matter for the Whips. With respect, I ask the Deputy to raise this issue with them. It is not a matter for the Order of Business unless a debate has been promised. We deal only with-----
Fair enough. Given the Taoiseach's meeting, I believed-----
I have allowed the Taoiseach to hear what the Deputy had to say. I assume that the Deputy will now go through the Whips.
I thank the Ceann Comhairle for his indulgence.
Will the Taoiseach outline for the House the agenda in respect of the major Bills relating to the fiscal compact or, as we on the left call it, the austerity treaty? It is said that the Government favours the end of May for the referendum on the austerity treaty. Will he confirm this so that we might have a timescale within which to work?
Am I correct in understanding that the Treaty Establishing the European Stability Mechanism Bill and the European Communities Act 1972 (amendment) Bill are fundamental and must be taken before the referendum? Keeping in mind all of this, what is the legislative agenda? This substantial body of legislation is critical to the future of our people and we want enough time to debate it properly in Dáil Éireann.
In respect of the fiscal compact - the stability treaty - clearly a referendum is to be held here. Do not mind what "they" say, Deputy. "They" always say things and "they" are always right. That is what "they" say.
Is that a confession?
That is what the Taoiseach thinks about the troika, namely, they who must be obeyed.
When one talks about anything in the country, that is what "they" say.
"They" used to be the Taoiseach.
What I want Deputy Higgins to understand is that, when the Government makes a decision on any of these matters, it will be communicated immediately to the people in the same way we did when, following the agreement of the text of the treaty, we asked the Attorney General directly for formal legal advice. When that became available, we immediately made known the decision to the people. We will do so as well when the Government actually decides to have the referendum.
I can confirm to Deputy Higgins that the Government intends to publish the fiscal responsibility Bill, which will give legal effect to the details of what is contained in the fiscal stability treaty. I can confirm to him that the Government this morning approved for preparation the heads of the referendum Bill. The Government will consider that Bill at its next meeting. The Government will have to follow that, once it is approved, with the setting up of a referendum commission, as we indicated we would. These decisions will be communicated to the House and the people immediately after they are made.
The intention is to publish the fiscal responsibility Bill, to produce and approve the referendum Bill, to produce and put in place the referendum commission and an appropriate person to chair that-----
What of the other two Bills?
-----and to get on with the business of dealing with the conditions of public procurement and so on. The Government will make its decision in regard to that at its next meeting.
What of the Treaty Establishing the European Stability Mechanism Bill and the European Communities Act 1972 (amendment) Bill?
That is optional.
That is not necessary. This fiscal compact is not an EU treaty. It is an intergovernmental treaty dealing with the stability of the fiscal compact, as the Deputy is aware. I have outlined for the Deputy the process that was approved this morning. The next stage of that will be to consider the referendum Bill, set up the referendum commission and deal with the conditions of public procurement. Following its next meeting, the Government will advise further on that.
I call Deputy Boyd Barrett.
I am sorry, but this point is pertinent. For clarity, must the Treaty Establishing the European Stability Mechanism Bill be passed by Dáil Éireann before the referendum? Surely this is the case, given that the treaty contains the blackmail clause that will be central to some of the discussions in the referendum debate.
There is a procedure to be followed for the holding of a referendum. The Government is committed to that and we will follow the process that we have to put in place to comply with the conditions of holding a referendum. Clearly, the ratification of the stability treaty means countries that do not ratify the stability treaty will not in any eventuality be able to draw funding from the ESM. This is of particular importance to this country in the eventuality that, at some future time, funds might be required. It is an insurance policy for our children and for the future of our country. In due course, when the Government makes its decision on the proposed date to hold a referendum, that will be announced immediately.
I am seeking clarification on the same issue. Will the European Stability Mechanism, ESM, be debated in the Dáil before or after the referendum on the fiscal treaty? As the Taoiseach seems to be indicating, the reason this is a critical question is that, if the Dáil passes the ESM legislation, we will pass the clause that denies us access to the ESM in the event that we oppose the treaty. We will be committing money to an ESM from which we might not be able to benefit if we do not pass the fiscal treaty. The sequence is critical.
We have not decided on the date for a vote in respect of the fiscal stability treaty. The position is that it is clear in the fiscal treaty that private sector involvement was taken out because it was deemed by the European Council that the situation in Greece was unique to Greece. It is also clear from the stability treaty that countries that fail to ratify the treaty will not be able to draw any funding from the ESM. It is also clear, as the Deputy is well aware from his weekly rantings, that this country is in a programme-----
We rant and the Government obfuscates.
-----and will continue to draw funding from that programme until 2013, when we hope to be able to emerge from it, retrieve our economic sovereignty and fly on our own.
We can refuse to ratify.
As we make decisions at Government, they will be communicated to the House immediately so that everybody will be very clear on the process, timescale and opportunity-----
To blackmail ourselves.
The Taoiseach has brought great clarity.
-----for everybody to have a full and comprehensive debate in the Houses of the Oireachtas.
We will put a gun to our own head.
In light of the decision of the Minister for Education and Skills to circulate information on the schools building programme on Sunday evening to Government Deputies and Senators only-----
Hold on one second. We are discussing promised legislation.
The question I am asking the Taoiseach is-----
This is about promised legislation. Cut out the preamble please.
Will the Taoiseach agree this action compromised the impartiality of the Civil Service and, as such-----
About what legislation is the Deputy speaking?
The Ministers and Secretaries Acts.
Is legislation promised in respect of the Ministers and Secretaries Acts?
No.
That is good news.
Deputy Dooley will have to get up a bit earlier in the morning.
I am asking the Taoiseach if he intends to amend the Ministers and Secretaries Acts. He has an opportunity to ask the Minister for Education and Skills, who is sitting beside him.
The Deputy can put down a parliamentary question.
He had his opportunity.
He wants to tell us about another school in Clare.
I want Deputy Tom Hayes to point out the ones that were pulled off the list. How many were pulled off the list that Deputy Mattie McGrath got put on?
I call Deputy Niall Collins.
On a point of order-----
Sit down, please. I have called Deputy Niall Collins.
The rules of the House have gone out the window. We are operating to a completely different agenda.
The Minister for Education and Skills has confirmed to the ICMSA that the capital value of farmland is to be incorporated into a new means testing criteria for sons and daughters of farmers who seek third level grants. Can the Taoiseach tell us-----
No, he cannot tell us if it is not legislation.
Is there legislation or when will the legislation be published in relation to that issue?
Is legislation promised?
No legislation is promised in that area.
There we go.
There is, sorry.
I do not know about what Deputy Niall Collins is speaking.
There is legislation.
In respect of Deputy Dooley, it is a long time since I met a Fianna Fáil Deputy travelling with three concrete blocks in the boot of the car to start the school long before it was announced.
The Taoiseach is a good learner.
About what legislation is the Deputy speaking?
I am asking the Taoiseach-----
We are dealing with promised legislation. Has legislation been promised?
He has confirmed to the ICMSA-----
It has been confirmed to the ICMSA that a capital test is going to be applied.
-----that a change in the grant testing criteria-----
I can confirm that legislation has been promised but no decision has been taken.
-----for farmers will apply. It involves a capital asset test for farmers.
It has been confirmed.
The Taoiseach confirmed that legislation will be required. When will the legislation be published?
The Deputy is correct. This is part of the programme for Government. No decision has been taken in regard to this or any measure attached to it.
It is in a letter to the ICMSA.
I call Deputy Kelleher.
Hold on a second.
You hold on a second.
The Taoiseach cannot keep saying black is white.
Resume your seat and do not get excited.
It is ridiculous.
St. Patrick's Day is coming. Cool yourself.
The Taoiseach said white is black and black is white. It is in black and white in that letter.
I call Deputy Kelleher. Does the Deputy hear me?
I suffered it for 14 years. I know how Deputy Martin feels.
He has learned very quickly.
Deputy Kelleher does not wish to speak. I call Deputy Healy-Rae.
I want to speak.
When I called the Deputy he would not speak.
Ask the ICMSA.
Will farmland be used in the capital means test?
Who is the letter from?
It is from the Minister to the ICMSA.
Show some manners in the Chamber.
I am very mannerly.
That works both ways.
This is not a schoolboys' outing, for goodness sake. I call Deputy Healy-Rae.
This is a serious issue.
Deputy Healy-Rae, please.
The Taoiseach is talking. I have to get his attention.
Please go ahead.
When I have his attention I will go ahead.
Good man.
With regard to the land aggregation scheme, is legislation in place or promised to ensure that when lands are taken over from local authorities-----
Hold on a second.
I have to finish what I am saying.
About what promised legislation is the Deputy speaking?
If the Ceann Comhairle will give me a chance-----
No, I will not give you a chance because-----
Give me the same chance as you give to everyone else.
-----you are not coming here every single day and making statements.
I am asking-----
Ask about the legislation.
I will ask a question if the Ceann Comhairle gives me the opportunity.
About what legislation is the Deputy asking?
If the Ceann Comhairle will give me the chance I will ask my question. I have to be given the same chance as everybody else.
I hope the Deputy is in order because it will be the last time he is called.
The Minister, Deputy Burton, is not around. He is all right.
What legislation?
May I continue? I could have asked my question ten times if the Ceann Comhairle had left me alone. In that scheme, lands are going to be taken from local authorities.
That is not promised legislation.
Can I finish?
No, you cannot finish. You are not making statements every day.
I am not making a statement. I am asking about the legislation that was promised in the programme for Government. Will the Taoiseach ensure, by means of promised legislation, that private developers will not get their hands on this land-----
Is legislation promised?
-----and sell it back to local authorities at an exorbitant price?
Stop abusing the freedom of the House.
There is no freedom if one is on this side of the House.
Do not cry, Deputy Dooley.
Is there promised legislation?
To what legislation in the programme for Government is the Deputy referring?
I do not know.
The Taoiseach knows about what I am speaking. I refer to the land aggregation scheme. When that scheme was drafted, was legislation built into it to ensure-----
Is legislation promised?
That is what I am asking.
There is no legislation, as far as I am aware. Tá tú ag breathnú go hálainn leis an léine nua.
Excuse me Deputies, this is about promised legislation. If Deputies have queries they should use parliamentary questions or the Topical Issues debate and we will try to facilitate them. Day in, day out I have to interrupt people because they are abusing the rules of the House. I am adhering to the rules of the House in the interest of everybody. An important item of legislation called the Finance Bill 2012 will be debated later and the debate on it is limited in time. I ask Deputies to observe the rules on promised legislation.
In Cork University Hospital a CAT scanner worth €3.8 million is lying idle. The Taoiseach has promised a debate on the HSE plan and legislation aimed at changing corporate governance in the HSE. When will these debates take place given the seriousness of the issues arising? Hundreds of people are being forced to travel to Dublin to access facilities because there are no staff to service the scanner in Cork. When will we have the debate? This issue is discommoding a large number of vulnerable and ill people.
The Deputy should raise the matter at a Whips' meeting. I do not have any objection to this. It may be necessary to bring the Dáil back early after Easter to deal with all these requirements for debates.
I will gladly accommodate that as long as it is not on a false Friday.
I look forward to accommodating the Deputy. He will get his debate.
Has the Government made plans to bring forward amendments to the criminal justice legislation on mandatory sentencing in light of the sentences laid down in recent weeks?
Is the legislation promised?
A person convicted of importing garlic received the same prison sentence as a father who raped his daughter and a women who mowed down her neighbour. They each received six years. There is a lot of anxiety among the public.
What legislation is the Deputy speaking about?
I refer to the court services Bill. Will it be amended to provide for mandatory sentencing?
The Deputy is entitled to table amendments on Committee State or Report Stage to any Bill. If he has a particular feeling for any legislation, it is his perfect right to do that.
The Taoiseach is aware that the Government dictates the state of play on these matters.
In view of the huge number of people left on local authority housing lists by the previous Administration, I ask the Taoiseach to introduce the housing Bill at the earliest opportunity. Perhaps he will also indicate the extent to which the Bill has been discussed in the Cabinet. Have the heads of the Bill been drafted?
The heads of the Bill have not yet come before the Government. We expect to publish the Bill this year but I cannot provided detailed information as to when the heads will come before the Government for approval. I will revert to the Deputy on the matter.
On another issue relating to promised legislation, the sale of alcohol Bill has been promised.
When is the sale of alcohol Bill due?
An early debate on the Bill would be socially desirable.
The Deputy will be aware that the Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Shortall, is dealing with an element of this.
On her own.
The sale of alcohol Bill is expected by the middle of the year.
An féidir leis an Taoiseach insint dúinn cathain a thiocfaidh an construction contracts Bill os comhair na Dala?
Tá an Bille réidh le teacht go dtí an Teach. Is dóigh liom go dtiocfaidh sé anseo go luath - taobh istigh de choicís, sílim.
In respect of the legislation required in advance of the children's referendum, can the Taoiseach indicate the month in which it will be introduced? Given that his Government has committed to holding the referendum this year, it would be appropriate to at least indicate the month in which the legislation will be published. He has advised me on several occasions that it is complex legislation but we ought to be given a timeline for publication.
We are not going to do this unless everything is in order to do it properly. We have not fixed a timeframe for the referendum. There is the matter of the Children First requirements and the legislation the Minister has to introduce. In regard to the referendum for the protection of children, I will not name a timeframe for that until the legislative process and the indications on the children's rights issues are dealt with.
Does that mean it will not happen this year?
No, it does not mean that. I want to have the process right. This is far too sensitive to just fix a projected time with which we might not be able to comply. We have to get this right for everybody.
Therefore, it may not happen this year.
He did not say that.
Periodically, after viewing documentaries on massacres in Rwanda or the Sudan, we express outrage in this House. In the context of No. 18 on today's Order Paper, what can we do about the massacre in Syria which has been ongoing for several months? There seems to be a silence of collaboration at EU level on this whole affair.
Will the Deputy tell us what is No. 18?
It is on the Order Paper.
I know that. I had hoped to save time but I will look it up myself.
The Taoiseach is familiar with the issue and was about to respond. No. 18 on the Order Paper concerns the laying before the House of the report on the Defence Forces involvement with the United Nations. It is in the context of our commitment to UNSAS, the United Nations Standby Arrangements System.
I can inform Deputy Timmins, an esteemed and honoured member of the Defence Forces of former years, that there was detailed discussion on this at the Heads of Government meeting in Brussels, where a detailed report was given by High Representative Ashton. There was full support for the sanctions that were imposed, both from a European perspective and from a United Nations perspective. I note that former Secretary General of the United Nations, Mr. Kofi Annan, was in Syria and has had two meetings with the President there. The Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs attended in Tunis as part of the meeting of the Ministers for Foreign Affairs.
With regard to Europe, let me assure Deputy Timmins that Europe is very concerned about the massacre that is taking place and about the horrendous happenings in Syria, and is fully focused on dealing with this. Quite a number of countries have withdrawn their embassies and ambassadors from Syria. The sanctions are tight and will continue to be so until there is a resolution to this situation.
Ba mhaith liom ceist a chur ar an Taoiseach faoin saghas reachtaíocht a thiocfaidh os comhair na Dála chun stop a chur leis an taisteal go léir atá á dhéanamh ag na hAirí agus Airí Stáit atá ag dul trasna an domhain le haghaidh Lá Fhéile Pádraig agus leis na costais a bhaineann leis na turais sin. Dúirt sé-----
It has nothing to do with the Order of Business who is travelling where. We are talking about promised legislation.
It is the cost of this.
I call Deputy Heydon.
I am not a killjoy. I want people to travel and represent the country. It is the sheer amount-----
Will you switch off the microphone, please?
We were ridiculed when we were on the other side.
Will the Deputy sit down, please?
In light of the need for the wards of court system to be replaced with a modern statutory framework governing decision making on behalf of the adults who lack capacity, when does the Taoiseach expect the proposed mental capacity Bill to come before the House?
The heads of the Bill have been approved and I expect it will be this session.
Yesterday, I saw slipped into one of the newspapers, in some inspired act by some representative of the Government, that the Seanad referendum will not take place this year. The Taoiseach had given earlier indications to the House that it definitely would take place. Will he confirm when he expects the legislation leading to a referendum on the abolition of the Seanad to come before the House?
That report is complete speculation. As I have said before in the House, we need to consider, as a Parliament, the process by which we hold referenda in view of the fact two referenda were held together with the presidential election on the last occasion. When it is held, the referendum in respect of the fiscal stability treaty will be held on its own. Obviously, the Government is very clear that we have to hold two other referenda outside the framework of the constitutional convention, that is, the referendum on child protection and the referendum on the abolition of the Seanad. In respect of the latter, I will bring a memorandum to Government in due course. As I said, I have not fixed a timeframe for either the Seanad referendum or the referendum on child protection. Both of these are matters we have to get right. I will let the House know when Government will deal with the memorandum in respect of the proposal to ask the people for the abolition of the Seanad.
The Taoiseach was definite all along that it would be held this year. Do I take it from his reply that it will not be held this year?
That is not gone from my mind.
It is only his mind.
But, Taoiseach-----
The Deputy asked the question. Let us get the answer.
When Deputy Martin addressed these questions before, there was clearly a 12-month period in front of us where one was not required to have a referendum. We have had formal legal advice from the Attorney General to have a referendum on what is a fundamentally important issue for the future of this country, and that will be dealt with on its own. Thereafter, the process in respect of both the child protection referendum and the Seanad will take their place. I will not lock into timeframes. We have a very important consideration for the future of Ireland to deal with. The people have a right to deal with that on its own, in the full knowledge that this is important for the future of our children and our country in the years ahead.
That completes the Order of Business.
The Taoiseach needs to be far more up-front with the Dáil. The situation is reaching farcical proportions. There is complete uncertainty.
I had a good meeting with representatives of all the parties, including the Deputy's, on the constitutional convention, although Deputy Martin was not able to attend. Some of them have written back and we are to have a second meeting on that. I assure the Deputy we will be very up-front with him. We will deal with this in due course.
Deputy Martin has certainly changed his position.
At least I have a position. It is difficult to know what is the Minister's.