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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 19 Apr 2012

Vol. 762 No. 1

Other Questions

Special Educational Needs

Sean Fleming

Question:

6Deputy Sean Fleming asked the Minister for Education and Skills the number of special needs assistants employed at the end of September 2011; the number employed at the end of December 2011; the number employed at the end of March 2012; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19392/12]

The number of posts available in this school year under the special needs assistant, SNA, scheme is capped at 10,575 under the employment control framework, as set out in the programme for national recovery and signed up to under the memorandum of understanding with the troika.

In September 2011 the NCSE allocated 10,100 posts to schools while retaining 475 posts to cover late and emergency applications. This measure ensured there would be sufficient posts to support all children who required such support in line with departmental criteria. By March 2012 the NCSE had allocated 10,299 whole-time equivalent posts to schools, leaving 276 posts available for allocation up to the end of the school year.

The number of SNAs employed by schools at any given time is usually less than the number of posts allocated at that time by the NCSE. Accordingly, the number of SNAs employed by schools was 10,014 at the end of September 2011, 10,117 at the end of December 2011 and 10,240 and at the end of March 2012.

I thank the Minister for his reply. It is one area where there was rapid progress during the decade. On Leaders' Questions recently, in response to Deputy Micheál Martin, who began the whole process of allocating special needs assistants as Minister for Education and Science in 1998, the Taoiseach stated that from 2001 to 2010 the number of SNAs had tripled. That was a very good, much needed and welcome investment to assist many children.

To take the Minister's figure, 235 posts have not yet been allocated in respect of the number for which provision had been made for this school year. Is that correct?

The school year is coming to a close. I hope no child has been denied assistance when there was a surplus, as such, in provision. I am sure the Minister can assure us the council has ensured no child meeting the criteria and needing that assistance has been denied support.

The Deputy is basically correct. We have the employment control framework figure of 10,575 and this was communicated to the NCSE. Last year, its SENOs communicated to all the schools that 10% was being retained in order to deal with late applications and emergency cases. Unfortunately, the communication was not properly or clearly understood and, in some cases, understandably - I am not blaming anyone as we are all human - this was communicated as a 10% reduction in that total number. That was not the case.

The operation of the NCSE is separate from the Department of Education and Skills. The assessment of special needs, as the Deputy knows, is a function of the SENOs and the allocation of resources and the prudent retention of a reserve to deal with late applications or emergency cases is a judgment of the NCSE. What I will be asking the NCSE in light of the Deputy's very rational question is whether it is being over-careful in holding back 10% or being over-careful in the way in which they are assessing late applications. There is no gain from our point of view within the Department of not filling the full allocation of SNAs within the framework of employment control.

I thank the Minister and agree with his sentiments. Will the cap remain the same for the 2012-13 school year as for the present school year?

I do not have the information on that question. Obviously, given population growth at primary and secondary level and the pupil-teacher ratio as numbers increase - we are expecting an increase of 70,000 between primary and secondary over the coming years - mainstream regular teachers will automatically be applied in addition to what is in place. At this point, I do not have the precise information as to whether that cap is absolute or whether there is some internal growth dynamic affecting it. I will find out for the Deputy and let him know.

With regard to my question on SNAs, is it true that the right to appeal is gone?

I questioned the Minister before on this issue and will put down a parliamentary question if he does not have the information today. I was looking for a breakdown by county of where SNAs were lost. We all asked questions in regard to children who lost SNAs. Will the Minister carry out a review - that awful word again - at the end of the year? Will he give an overview of the impact the cap has had on children with special needs? This can be a barrier for those children who are trying to move from one school to another. Has this emerged as a trend in the figures and information the Minister is receiving?

I do not have the factual information the Deputy is seeking. It would be better to put down questions for written reply. With regard to Deputy Wallace's question, to the best of my knowledge, the appeals process has not been abolished, although it may be under review as to how it should operate. I will come back to the Deputy on that as I do not have the information to hand.

School Staffing

Bernard J. Durkan

Question:

7Deputy Bernard J. Durkan asked the Minister for Education and Skills the extent to which he and or his Department have studied variations in class size throughout the country; if particular regions are likely to be more negatively affected than others by measures arising from budgetary constraints in the wake of agreements entered into by his predecessor; if he proposed any particular ameliorating measures in this regard; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19456/12]

The staffing schedule is the mechanism used for the allocation of classroom teachers to all primary schools. It operates in a clear and transparent manner and treats all similar types of schools equally, irrespective of location. The configuration of classes and the deployment of classroom teachers are done at local school level.

My Department publishes annual statistics on class size data for each school. The most recent statistics are for 2010-11. The national average class size is 23.9 pupils. However, with over 20,600 classes in over 3,100 primary schools throughout the country, there will always be variations in class sizes at individual school level. The Department's guidance to local school management is that such variations should be kept to the minimum.

Irish Language

Peadar Tóibín

Question:

8Deputy Peadar Tóibín den an Aire Oideachais agus Scileanna an ndéanfaidh sé ráiteas maidir leis an tionchar a bheidh ag ciorruithe oideachais ar chumas an Rialtais a chuid riachtanas faoin Straitéis Fiche Bliain, ó thaobh oideachais sa Ghaeltacht agus oideachais trí mheán na Gaeilge de, a chomhlíonadh agus maidir leis an tionchar a bheidh ag ciorruithe oideachais ar an nGaeltacht. [12854/12]

A number of education related actions in the 20-year strategy are already underway, especially in regard to teacher education, reform of the curriculum at primary and post-primary level and the provision of teaching resources. The strategy recognises the importance of equipping teachers to teach through the medium of Irish. As part of the national literacy and numeracy strategy, I have asked the Teaching Council to consider the requirements in Irish for entry to teacher education courses and to be cognisant of the 20-year strategy in addressing the preparation of teachers to teach Irish at all stages of the continuum.

I have also asked the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment to revise the content of the primary curriculum and junior cycle for Irish. In addition, the NCCA has undertaken to review the syllabus for leaving certificate in light of the experience of the students completing the revised leaving certificate course in June 2012. The Department is also providing some €1.75 million to An Chomhairle um Oideachas Gaeltachta agus Gaelscolaíochta in 2012 for the provision of resources to support the teaching of Irish in all schools. All of these actions will help to support Irish-medium education both within and outside the Gaeltacht.

The Department of Education and Skills is central to the implementation of the 20-year strategy. The Minister refers in his reply to teachers who are proficient in the language having an essential role in regard to the creation of the new generation of Irish language speakers in the future. Why, then, has the funding for trainee teachers to attend Irish language classes in Gaeltacht areas been cut?

How often does the strategy committee meet in this regard? An Chomhairle um Oideachas Gaeltachta agus Gaelscolaíochta, COGG, has not been included in the top-level committee. Is it an essential part of the implementation strategy? The establishment of an Irish language training college was one of the proposals. Is there any movement in that regard? Has the Minister plans to address the serious Irish language deficiencies in his own Department? Training used to be provided in Gaeleagras but only approximately 3% of the Department staff are proficient in the Irish language. Are there proposals in the Department to up-skill members of staff as part of the essential pushing out of the strategy?

I have taken note of Deputy Crowe's supplementary questions. Some of the queries raised are not fully covered in the documents before me. I will write to the Deputy about these. Since we had to find savings somewhere we reduced the financial support for teachers taking support courses in the Gaeltacht. The arrangement now is that they make the contribution for the courses. I am speaking from memory and this is subject to confirmation. I will get a letter to Deputy Crowe outlining the details of the other questions. It will be on the official record.

Up to now, Gaeltacht schools had a preferential pupil-teacher ratio in recognition of the challenges of teaching through the medium of Irish. There was also a recognition of the lack of teaching resources available and the decline of the language. This is why the strategy was set up. We have cut back the preferential pupil-teacher ratios. On the one hand we are pushing forward a strategy but on the other hand we appear to be pulling the rug from under it. The Minister's Department is taking the lead with the strategy and this is one of the concerns of the language activists.

I understand the Deputy's concerns. However, within reason all sections of the education budget had to take some portion of the overall burden of budget adjustment. There was a favourable pupil-teacher ratio for gaelscoileanna compared with other schools. I have removed that favourable ratio. As Deputy Crowe is aware, this has in no way indicated a decline in the demand for participation in gaelscoileanna. As part of the allocation of patronage for new schools, gaelscoileanna and gaelcoláistí have been well looked after. There is a clear indication of trying to meet the demand within existing resources while, at the same time, making overall savings.

University Status

Paudie Coffey

Question:

9Deputy Paudie Coffey asked the Minister for Education and Skills since the publication of the criteria for technological university status, the steps he has taken to develop the heads of a Bill that will give legal effect to technological universities; the progress that has been made since the criteria’s publication for establishment of a technological university in the south east as outlined in the Programme for Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19419/12]

A clear, four stage process and criteria for designation as technological university was published in February of this year. Institutions proposing to merge and apply for designation as technological universities, including those in the south east, must submit a formal expression of interest within a six month period and will be advised within a further six months whether they can proceed to the second stage for designation. The drafting of legislative proposals to provide for the amalgamation of institutes of technology and the establishment of technological universities will be advanced in tandem with the designation process as part of the work which is under way on implementing the higher education strategy.

I welcome the timescale of the process outlined by the Minister. Are heads of a Bill required to bring forward legislation to implement the process? There is a precedent. The University of Limerick was established in 1972 as the National Institute of Higher Education. Is it possible this precedent could be used in future? It is important that the matter is not kept off the agenda for an indefinite period. The south east is probably the largest area of the country with no university in the area and it has a population of approximately 500,000. I support the views of my colleagues in Waterford, including Deputy Coffey, who are keen to progress the idea in the south-east area, given the high unemployment situation there at the moment. We need an impetus such as a technological university to address this.

As part of the process, the Higher Education Authority has written to all the institutions, including the institutes of technology and other third level colleges. The authority has given the institutions six months to respond to the recommendations of what is known as the Hunt report, the review of higher education that my predecessor and the Administration of which Deputy Smith was a member published in January 2011. They were given six months to indicate what they intended to do and where they envisaged their future, including whether the various institutes of technology wished to link with another institute of technology to pursue the prospect of becoming a technological university.

Ireland has seven universities and the Dublin Institute of Technology, which is assumed to be similar to a university although it does not have the categorisation or title of a university. The report recommended that we do not need any more universities given the population of 4.6 million in the State. However, there is merit in the concept of a technological university. The criteria required by an institution to reach the status of a technological university were published in the formal reply in February. It will be up to individual institutions to decide whether they want to have a crack at going for it. They will indicate whether they wish to do so within the six month period. The responses will be evaluated in the course of another six months. Therefore, 12 months from having received the letter, they will either get the go-ahead to go to the next stage or otherwise. If we get an indication from an institution that it wishes to proceed and the proposal is credible, then the necessary legislative frameworks will be put in place.

However, I emphasise that the decision to confer technological university status on any group or cluster of technological colleges will not be made in the House and it will not be decided politically. It will be decided by an international review panel that will review the application by any group or groupings. It will examine the criteria we set out in advance. These are available if anyone wishes to examine them. A decision will be made by the international advisory group established on objective criteria and the group will advise the Minister of the day.

I wish to explain the political thinking behind this. In Britain, Maggie Thatcher re-labelled every polytechnic as a university. One can come across the University of East Lancashire and so on. In the process, this devalued university status among the mainstream universities in the United Kingdom. The universities of Oxford and Cambridge will always be "Oxford" and "Cambridge" and the University of London and the London School of Economics will have their status, just as Trinity College Dublin and University College Dublin have a certain status here. However, the other universities will be devalued by a political decision, as happened in Britain. I have no intention of going down that road. Institutions should be granted the status on merit. I hope Members share that view. The process has been laid out. The expectation is that the south-east colleges will come together. I am aware informally that this is their intention. However, a process must be adhered to and I have laid it out.

I agree with the approach of the Minister. We have discussed previously in the House the utmost importance of safeguarding academic standards. That goes without saying. It is important that the HEA brings in an internationally renowned panel of experts. I know from speaking to members of my political party in the south east and other interested parties that the people in the south east are passionate with regard to bringing an additional resource to their area. I fully understand this view. The Minister will recall that previously Deputy Seamus Kirk commented on the position in the north east. Are potential constituent colleges from outside the jurisdiction eligible to apply as part of a clustering arrangement with colleges and third level institutes in our State?

I am unsure of the precise technical answer to that question but let me offer an opinion. I have established a good working relationship with my counterpart in Northern Ireland who now has total responsibility for higher level education. This was previously the remit of another Minister in the Executive there. He has the same range as I have now. We are considering cross-Border collaboration in several ways.

I imagine a university recognised by two separate, legal jurisdictions would require the co-operation and agreement of both. I am not averse to it. There are seven universities here as well as the Dublin Institute of Technology and there are two universities in Northern Ireland. The report calls for collaboration and I support this call. When I met the presidents and chairpersons of the 14 institutes of technology I indicated they should consider an all-Ireland collaborative approach to third level provision in future. If that collaboration moves in the direction of a technological university then I do not envisage the Border as a barrier. However, any institution would have to meet the academic criteria and the standards set out. If this means collaboration between Belfast and Dublin to achieve it, I am open to that. I am offering this to the Deputy as an opinion; it has not, as yet, come about. If the Higher Education Authority were to decide after six months that such a joint approach is a credible one and should be facilitated, then we would have to take the steps - between Belfast and Dublin and possibly London, although that is unlikely - to allow it to happen.

I concur with Deputy Smith in regard to the importance of maintaining academic standards. We will never sort out our unemployment situation, whether in the south east or anywhere else, merely by changing the name over the door of a university. We must strive to improve standards into the future in order to achieve our objectives.

Coming from south Ulster I am anxious that we drive forward the North-South agenda to a greater degree. Significant numbers of students from Cavan and Monaghan go to colleges in the North, with students from the Six Counties moving in the other direction as well. There is potential to drive that type of cross-Border facilitation forward. Dundalk Institute of Technology has made a huge effort to provide access to young people from disadvantaged homes and less well-off backgrounds, with the percentage of students coming from families in which they are the first to proceed to third level being particularly high. It would be extremely bad for our education system if Dundalk Institute of Technology were to be left out on a limb and unable to maximise its potential.

Unfortunately, we do not have time to tour the entire country at Question Time.

The dead hand, if it comes, will not come from the Minister or the Minister of State, Deputy Fergus O'Dowd, on this matter. One would have assumed there would be greater support from the European Union for cross-Border initiatives of this type.

I have embarked on a survey in conjunction with the Northern Ireland Minister for Education, Mr. John O'Dowd, of parents of children at both primary and post-primary level living along a corridor 30 km wide from Derry to Newry with a view to determining the degree of demand for sending children across the Border to school for whatever reason, whether ethos, convenience, catchment area or place of employment. If there is sufficient expression of interest, the objective is that, effective from September 2013, people living, for example, in the Finn Valley can opt to send their children across the Finn river to Cavan or Monaghan, and vice versa. The configuration of the Border tends to follow natural geographical features such as rivers, which does not necessarily correlate with the catchment area of the population. We would then do a reconciliation on a per capita basis between pupils on either side.

Third Level Staff

Michael McGrath

Question:

10Deputy Michael McGrath asked the Minister for Education and Skills the way he intends to reduce the pay of those university presidents who continue to earn more than the €200,000 public sector pay cap and who recently refused his request for a pay cut; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19402/12]

Since becoming Minister I have written to the chairpersons of university governing bodies requesting them to ask all relevant individuals, including presidents, earning in excess of €200,000 to make voluntary waivers of salary. While two individuals, one of whom is a university head, have agreed to make personal arrangements with their employer regarding a deduction of the amount of salary above €200,000, there have been no voluntary waivers made for the benefit of the State. I cannot enforce a voluntary waiver. Nor can I insist that a waiver, if made, follows any particular format. For instance, an employee is free to waive a portion of his or her salary in favour of a charity or his or her employer. The Government has decided that a salary ceiling of €200,000 will apply to future appointments to senior positions across the public service.

I thank the Minister for his reply. It is absolutely deplorable that people in positions of such privilege and leadership in our society did not respond positively to the request made by him and by the former Secretary General, Ms Brigid McManus. Giving a donation to charity, although a positive move in itself, does not adequately meet that request. Why were academic consultants excluded in this regard?

Subject to confirmation, I understand the reason they are excluded is that they have a dual employment in that they have chosen, within the nature of medical education, to be both teachers and practising consultants at the same time. As such, their salary is from two sources, bringing it way over the €200,000 benchmark.

On a related matter, the academic year for most third level institutions finishes relatively soon. The period in which our colleges and their top-class facilities are not in use each year is something of a farce. We are all conscious of the huge investment that took place in universities and institutes of technologies in the past decade or so. Those facilities should be in use for at least 90% of the year rather than 60% or 70%. Does the Minister intend to renew his request to these overly remunerated persons to take a reduction in line with what is an extremely high salary ceiling? The next academic year will come around fairly quickly.

I have no immediate proposals to renew my request. However, I am convening a meeting with the presidents and chairpersons of the governing bodies of the various third level institutions at which this issue may well be on the agenda.

Will the Minister review the funding to the universities in question? That might be one way of encouraging action in this area. What is particularly galling for people who are facing cuts across the board is the perks to which many of these people are entitled, as well as the recent news of the apparent abuse of their positions by way of the upgrading of offices, procurement of art and so on. This is happening while children go to school hungry. The Minister has a powerful hand in seeking to make changes in this regard, and the sooner he implements those changes, the better.

I am conscious that some of the older universities are not accustomed to the close engagement of either the Higher Education Authority or the Department. The types of economies to which Deputy Smith referred are self-evident common sense. No commercial enterprise could afford to allow expensive plant and equipment to lie idle for long periods. Nor is this an issue only in the university sector. We have even less knowledge of what is happening in the institutes of technology. Part and parcel of the exercise to which I referred earlier will be a wide-ranging letter from the Higher Education Authority seeking to identify what each institution does, what it intends to do in the next decade and how it will meet those objectives. I intend to engage fully in that process while being careful at the same time not to stifle innovation, creativity and independence of operation. We must maintain the balance between our third level institutions being able to engage enthusiastically in certain activities and ensuring we get good value for money on behalf of the taxpayer.

When was the last time we saw a cake sale in a university?

School Enrolments

Mary Lou McDonald

Question:

11Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Minister for Education and Skills his views on his Department’s student projections that show student numbers at second level will rise significantly from today’s total of 325,000 to around 383,000 by 2025, an increase of 58,000 or 18%; and his views that this will necessitate the employment of 3,000 additional teachers to at least maintain the current pupil teacher ratio. [19507/12]

I agree with the Deputy about the challenges arising from rapidly increasing enrolments in our schools. That is why certain budgetary measures regarding teacher allocations have been introduced and further measures will be required in future years in order to manage teacher payroll costs. My Department is projecting that enrolments at second level will continue to rise over the next decade, peaking around the year 2025. My Department is also projecting that enrolments at second level will then start to reduce back closer to current levels. If the current 19:1 staffing ratio is unchanged, this will indeed generate a requirement for an additional 3,000 teachers by the year 2025. The Government has prioritised, as best as possible, the filling of front-line posts in the education sector. However, the number of teaching posts we can afford to fund in schools in the coming years must operate within the context of the country's capacity to fund itself.

My question relates to how far ahead we plan for these matters. I hope we will not be discussing these matters in this Chamber in 2025.

Whatever about the Deputy, I certainly do not intend to be here.

Nor do I. It is important that we plan ahead. Will we, for example, have the land set aside and the buildings in place? If those structures are in place, the most important question will be whether sufficient teachers will be available. The teachers' unions have suggested approximately 280 teachers per annum will be required, while they also have expressed concern about the number of teachers leaving the system. The major concern underlying this point pertains to the difference in salary scale for new teachers entering the profession and whether anything can be done in the future about the unfairness of a really low income being set for many such new teachers. Moreover, many of them are not young students emerging from college. Many have mortgages, children and everything else but have a love of the idea of teaching and so on. Such individuals must be supported and the best people encouraged to enter the profession. Does the Minister agree that it is about putting in place the resources required in this regard?

I share Deputy Brendan Smith's sentiments and assure him that there is serious long-term planning within the Department. It has been reinforced since my arrival at its Marlborough Street headquarters. The Department has put in place a new design and build procurement process and mobilised additional resources from across the public sector. For example, the Office of Public Works has spare capacity because there is not a great deal of building activity. Moreover, personnel from the former National Building Agency have been made available to the Department to assist its Tullamore unit in direct procurement. In addition, I believe the Deputy mentioned the chief executive officer of County Louth Vocational Education Committee in an earlier question. The Department has mobilised the resources and executive capability in VECs to act as its agents to manage, procure and deliver building projects. For example, a substantial project of which the Deputy will be aware is under way in Monaghan town. This is a model for what might be done elsewhere to ensure the product is delivered on time and in the places in which it is needed. Moreover, the Department has a geographic information system, GIS, with which Deputy Crowe is familiar that makes predictions. It knows the location of every one-year old child whose parent is in receipt of a child benefit payment. With regard to the primary and, to a lesser extent, the secondary sectors, predictions can be made about population demand. The Department has the tools and recognition capacity to engage in forward planning.

As for the reform of the junior certificate, it is envisaged this programme will start with next September's intake of first-year students entering post-primary schools. However, it will not reach completion, in terms of the junior certificate or whatever name is given to the new examination, until 2020. It will cover an eight-year spectrum to start a programme of curricular reform, roll it out over time, on the assumption that the Department's timetable is reasonable, and then see youngsters going through the three-year cycle and sitting their examinations. Consequently, we must start planning now to achieve an effective change, but we also must recognise that of itself, implementation requires time to reach fulfilment.

Another element of such long-term planning is that joined-up government will be required in the procurement of schools. I refer to the old structure of setting aside land for a school that was subsequently never built; this happened nationwide. If the construction industry ever takes off again, it must be linked to such planning developments and joined-up government on the part of the Minister and the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government. This is the way forward and given the anticipated numbers of pupils, it is the only way in which it will be delivered.

This is not a reflection on Deputy Brendan Smith in any way because he probably shared my view, but at the height of the boom, the previous Administration could have induced developers to set aside school sites free of charge.

It was done in Adamstown.

Yes. Given the acreage required, some school sites come with a price tag of approximately €3 million. At the time developers would have happily agreed to set aside the sites, as the cost would have been spread across the development cost of the entire project. However, this simply was not done.

School Staffing

Michael Moynihan

Question:

12Deputy Michael Moynihan asked the Minister for Education and Skills the reason a school (details supplied) in Dublin 1 will lose three teacher posts in September despite the promise that DEIS band schools would not lose any legacy posts; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19405/12]

The new dedicated staffing schedule, when applied to the school referred to by the Deputy, ensures this school operates its entitlement under the DEIS programme to a more favourable pupil-teacher ratio of 20:1. In addition, the school will retain the more favourable pupil-teacher ratios under previous disadvantage schemes for the 2012-13 school year. Owing to a falling enrolment, the school is due to lose one mainstream classroom teacher and one administrative principal post. I wish to clarify it would lose these posts, regardless of any reforms to the teacher allocation process or budgetary measures.

The allocation processes also include an appeals mechanism, under which schools can appeal against the allocation due to them under the staffing schedules. The school to which the Deputy refers has submitted an appeal. The staffing appeals board which operates independently of my Department met on 18 April and will notify schools directly. The final staffing position for all schools at primary level ultimately will not be known until the autumn. At that stage the allocation process will be fully completed and any appeals to the staffing appeals board will have been considered.

I presume this reply refers to St. Laurence O'Toole's junior boys school.

This matter was discussed earlier and my information does not tally with the Minister's response. I will drop him a note tomorrow on this case.

I thank the Deputy. Let us get the facts and deal with them properly.

I will also double-check the data provided for me.

Teachers’ Remuneration

Pearse Doherty

Question:

13Deputy Pearse Doherty asked the Minister for Education and Skills if the cap on academic qualifications allowances introduced in December’s budget is contrary to his stated commitment to developing a knowledge based society that is an important prerequisite which is needed to stimulate employment and economic growth. [19508/12]

Under budget 2012, teachers appointed before 5 December 2011 are not paid an allowance where they acquire further qualifications after that date. Allowances for teachers first appointed between 5 December 2011 and 31 January 2012 are payable up to a maximum of €4,226, which was the rate applicable to the honours primary degree allowance. This measure is concerned with the sustainability of the public service pay bill and, in particular, the need to find payroll savings in the education Vote. In setting the new maximum at the rate applicable to the honours primary degree allowance, cognisance was taken of the level of qualification required by the Teaching Council. The previous arrangements whereby a teacher could elect to acquire further qualifications post-entry to the profession and secure a pensionable pay increase simply were not sustainable and as such, I do not accept the measure has any significant implication for the development of a knowledge-based economy.

Is the precise number known? Figures available to me indicate that almost half of the 9,000 postgraduate students in the State have their fees paid or receive a minimum maintenance grant. I have received information that cuts to postgraduate courses will prevent some of the country's brightest and most capable young people from accessing higher education. This does not simply pertain to teachers because for some masters degree courses fees of approximately €6,000 are charged. Again, those who are from low or middle income family backgrounds are the students who will have difficulty in moving on in their education. One is told continually that fully-qualified people are needed to take up the opportunities afforded by the new knowledge economy and so on. While, on the one hand, one is told there is a crisis in this regard, on the other, supports are not being given to people to enable them to move on in their education. Some of the people who attended today's meeting of the Joint Committee on Jobs, Social Protection and Education to discuss the same matter also made the worrying point that while the State is saying one thing, it is doing another. While such education costs a lot of money, rather than bringing in people from abroad to fill the skills void and take up many of the available jobs, it would be cheaper in the long run.

The Government was obliged to make decisions across the budgetary framework for reasons that are all too evident to everyone present in the Chamber. Ireland is highly fortunate in that, unlike our nearest neighbours and other European Union countries, gaining entry to any of its five primary school teacher colleges necessitates being in the top 15% of the leaving certificate honours and points outcomes. As an incredibly high level of achievement is required, very bright people are entering the colleges and as the phenomenon dates back over many decades, I do not suggest for one moment this is due to this Administration or its predecessor. Teaching is well regarded in Ireland, which is a major advantage. This is not the case in other countries because they are not as well paid, not as well regarded and do not have what one might call the same professional or social status.

Section 30 of the Teaching Council Act will be activated later this year on the enactment of the Education (Amendment) Bill 2012 which is going through the House. This will enable the Teaching Council to ensure that only teachers who are registered with it will be paid a State salary. Such teachers will be obliged to re-register each year and will have to provide proof of continual professional development. This will ensure that the cohort of teachers already in place will be upskilled. To a certain extent, this particular provision will no longer be necessary. However, we will be considering how to ensure that graduates who obtain jobs in primary schools will pursue other postgraduate qualifications. Continuing professional development is a requirement among all the professions, including those which relate to doctors and other medical personnel, lawyers, architects, etc. Teachers are going to be obliged to pursue such development as well.

When will the impact of what is proposed be felt? Will it be next September or sometime thereafter? There have already been reports from certain colleges with regard to courses being dropped, etc. Perhaps we could return to this matter early next year and the Minister could make a statement in the House in respect of the effect of what is proposed. If that effect is negative in nature, will we be in a position to re-examine what is involved? We have been given mixed messages regarding the knowledge-based economy. It is those who cannot afford to pay - those on the lowest incomes, etc. - who are going to suffer most in respect of this matter.

I am aware of the fears that have been expressed but it is far too early to state whether a trend is emerging. However, we will keep the matter under review. If those fears are confirmed, then we will be obliged to take action to reverse the position. It would not be in anyone's interest, for the reasons the Deputy expressed and which I support, for a deterioration in quality to occur.

I completely agree with the Minister about the need to protect educational standards and that we must continue to invest in teachers. All Members would have received correspondence from and met people of different ages who expect to qualify as teachers shortly. As a result of changing careers, etc., many of these individuals already have substantial mortgage commitments and student loans and they are very concerned with regard to the rate of pay that will apply at the entry level to teaching. This issue requires further consideration in order that we might ensure that we continue to protect the teaching profession. We must also ensure that the entry requirements relating to training colleges and universities are of the highest standard.

I share that view. We will keep the matter under consideration.

Educational Resources

Micheál Martin

Question:

14Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Minister for Education and Skills his reason for carrying out a pilot inventory of educational resources in just four to six provincial towns; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19397/12]

The programme for Government contains a commitment to ensure a complete inventory of all school buildings and associated structures. This will be a major step forward and help to inform our future planning for schools. My Department is finalising proposals for the development of this inventory to expand on the information being collected and is working closely with the Royal Institute of Architects of Ireland on this. It is anticipated that the pilot project will be put out for tender shortly. The pilot study is being concentrated initially on up to six areas. This is so that we can learn from the pilot exercise and evaluate both the methods of data collection and the level of useful detail to be gathered for the inventory. A further roll-out of the inventory exercise can then be considered in the light of the experience gained from the pilot exercise. We are seeking to ensure we get matters right before rolling it out across the entire educational infrastructure.

I thank the Minister for his reply. This pilot scheme applies only to provincial towns that have experienced rapid growth in recent years.

No, it is a mix.

Is it confined to an inventory of educational resources alone? Why is the Royal Institute of Architects of Ireland involved? This exercise is not being carried out solely by the Department.

A typical provincial town with a catchment area in which 30,000 to 40,000 people reside may, for historical reasons, have up to seven or eight primary schools and three or four post-primary schools, including a former VEC technical school and a school created from the amalgamation of two schools run by the Christian Brothers and an order of nuns, respectively, possibly a college of further education and, in some cases, an institute of technology. Institutes of technology are certainly to be found in 14 such towns. We do not know, on a horizontal basis, what exactly we possess. We do not know if the science laboratory in one secondary school is up to scratch or if that in another is decrepit. Each school is an island and they apply individually for support and resources of one kind or another. What I want to do is obtain an inventory of the educational resources in various towns and identify what we can use to ensure maximum efficiency. If there is a good sports hall in one school or if a GAA club has recently received a grant to build such a hall, I want to know if these facilities can be thrown into the mix.

For many reasons, schools have historically dealt directly with the Department. As a result of the fact that the same curriculum is being taught at primary and secondary level and because there is no longer the same kind of institutional or social rivalry among different teaching orders, we now have an opportunity to ensure we obtain proper value from and utilise the physical resource that exists. However, we must first measure the extent of that resource. That is what the inventory is doing but it is not confined to a particular type of town or to new or expanding areas. In some instances there is probably greater capacity for better utilisation in what might be termed a "stable" town.

Written Answers follow Adjournment.

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