Dáil Éireann debate -
Friday, 20 Apr 2012

Vol. 762 No. 2

Order of Business

Minister for Social Protection (Deputy Joan Burton)

It is proposed to take No. 17, Revised Estimates for Public Services 2011, Votes 1 to 6, back from committee; No. 4, Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Treaty on Stability, Coordination and Governance in the Economic and Monetary Union) Bill 2012 - Second Stage (resumed); No. 13 - motion re statement for information of voters in relation to the Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Treaty on Stability, Coordination and Governance in the Economic and Monetary Union) Bill 2012; and No. 34, Burial and Cremation Regulation Bill 2011 - Second Stage.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders or the order of the Dáil of 22 March, that: (1) No. 17 shall be decided without debate - Votes 1 to 6 shall be moved together and decided by one question which shall be put from the Chair and any division demanded thereon shall be taken forthwith; (2) in regard to No. 4, the proceedings on Second Stage (resumed) shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 12.30 p.m. and that the proceedings on Committee and Remaining Stages shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 1.30 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade; (3) No. 13 shall be taken immediately at the conclusion of No. 4 and decided without debate; (4) No. 34 shall be taken at the conclusion of No. 13, that the proceedings thereon shall be brought to a conclusion after three hours and the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the opening speech of Deputy Tommy Broughan and the contributions of the main spokespersons for Fianna Fáil, Sinn Fein, the Technical Group and a Minister or Minister of State, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; (ii) the speech of each other Member called upon shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; (iii) Members may share time; (iv) a Minister or Minister of State, who may speak twice, shall be called upon not more than two hours and 30 minutes from the commencement of the proceedings to make a speech which shall not exceed 15 minutes; (v) Deputy Tommy Broughan shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed 15 minutes; and (vi) if a division is demanded on the Bill, it shall be postponed until immediately after the Order of Business on Tuesday, 24 April, in accordance with Standing Order 117A; and (5) for the purposes of Standing Order 117A, the first Friday of the month in May shall be Friday, 11 May, the time and date by which notice of a Bill in connection with that sitting will be received by the Clerk shall be 11 a.m. on Friday, 27 April, and related Standing Orders shall apply accordingly.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

There are five proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 17, Revised Estimates for Public Services 2011, Votes 1 to 6, to be taken without debate, agreed to? Agreed.

Is the proposal for dealing with Second Stage (resumed) and Committee and Remaining Stages of the Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Treaty on Stability, Coordination and Governance in the Economic and Monetary Union) Bill 2012 agreed to?

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

It is not. Once again, a very important debate is to be guillotined in this House.

A Deputy

Where was the Deputy yesterday?

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

The record will show that I was in attendance. To clarify for Members opposite, it is proposed that the debate on Second Stage of this very important Bill which could cause a loss of Irish sovereignty and tie us to austerity indefinitely should be guillotined at 12.30 p.m. and that the time allocated for Committee and Remaining Stages should be limited to one hour. Even though it is very difficult in any referendum Bill to alter the wording on Committee Stage, the guillotine should not applied in this instance. I acknowledge that we are sitting on a Friday, which is a welcome change. However, on this occasion we should sit for as long as is necessary today, tomorrow and Sunday, as long as there are speakers who wish to contribute to the debate. Therefore, I urge the Government not to proceed with the guillotine. I have opposed guillotines on a range of issues but this is one of the most important debates to have taken place in respect of the future of Ireland.

Deputy Seán Ó Fearghaíl

Notwithstanding the validity of the point about guillotines, I am conscious that only one amendment has been tabled in respect of this legislation. Consequently, it should be possible to deal with it within the envisaged timeframe and Fianna Fáil will not oppose this proposal.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

Deputy Seán Ó Fearghaíl

However, I refer to the point raised by Deputy Ó Snodaigh to the effect that Members are present on a Friday. This appears to be the first meaningful Friday sitting to have taken place.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

I say "well done", to the Minister, Deputy Burton.

Deputy Patrick O’Donovan

Where is Deputy Kelleher? There is no sign of him.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

The Deputy should show a bit more respect for her. She is a good one.

(Interruptions).

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Order, please.

Deputy Seán Ó Fearghaíl

I commend the Government on moving towards the sort of proposals regarding Friday sittings that Fianna Fáil has had on the table for a long time. It is good there is an Order of Business and that legislation is before Members today. Can the Minister assure Members that future Friday sittings to deal with Private Members' business, which is important and has been a positive initiative in this House, will expand to do precisely what is being done today? Will such sittings have an Order of Business, will Ministers answer questions and will legislation be brought before Members?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy Finian McGrath, on the same issue.

Deputy Finian McGrath

I strongly oppose the guillotine on the debate on the legislation for the 30th amendment to the Constitution. This is a crucial and critical time for Ireland and a balanced debate is needed.

Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin

Is the Deputy in favour of the amendment?

Deputy Finian McGrath

Moreover, Members must watch their language, judging by the comments made by Labour Party Members yesterday, some of which were outrageous.

Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin

Will the Deputy vote "Yes"?

Deputy Finian McGrath

I refer to use of words such as "lunacy" and so on. Consequently, a proper, balanced and decent debate is required.

Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin

Will the Deputy vote "Yes"?

Deputy Finian McGrath

As for guillotines, I remind Deputy Ó Ríordáin that in the last Dáil, Labour Party and Fine Gael Members jumped up and down any time legislation was guillotined. That is the reality.

Deputy Patrick O’Donovan

Deputy Finian McGrath was supporting the Government at the time.

Deputy Emmet Stagg

The Deputy was supporting Bertie at the time.

Deputy Finian McGrath

Consequently, Members should quit the hypocrisy and get over it. Let us get on with it.

(Interruptions).

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Order, please.

Deputy Finian McGrath

I also wish to state from a democratic point of view-----

(Interruptions).

Deputy Finian McGrath

-----with the Leas-Cheann Comhairle's permission and protection-----

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputies, order, please. Deputy Finian McGrath has the floor.

Deputy Emmet Stagg

The reason the Deputy was not jumping up and down was that he was supporting Bertie.

Deputy Finian McGrath

I supported the people and always stuck by them. That is my position.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Emmet Stagg

Except when the Deputy supported Bertie.

Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin

Will the Deputy vote "Yes"?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy Finian McGrath, without interruption.

Deputy Finian McGrath

I revert to the issue of the 30th amendment and note that guillotining legislation is a dangerous step for this House to take. It also is highly undemocratic. If this Bill is guillotined today, my good colleague, Deputy Ross, is one of those Members who will not be afforded an opportunity to speak on this issue.

Deputy Eamonn Maloney

My God.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Finian McGrath

My point is that regardless of one's political party or political view, one should be allowed to speak in this House. This is a democratic issue and shame on all the Deputies opposite. They have not argued the case for the guillotine.

(Interruptions).

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Please, can we have order please?

Deputy Joan Burton

In reply to Deputy Ó Snodaigh, as for votes of confidence in Ireland and it being in a position to recover its economic independence and sovereignty-----

Deputy Dara Calleary

No thanks to the Minister.

Deputy Joan Burton

-----I welcome the announcement of the investment by Apple in Cork that will lead to 500 jobs.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

Deputy Joan Burton

I also welcome the successful negotiations being concluded in China in respect of further investment in Ireland. My colleague, the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Coveney, has been involved in these negotiations on behalf of the Government and the Irish people.

Deputy James Bannon

Hear, hear.

Deputy Joan Burton

This is one of a string of announcements and I note that announcements of this nature will provide economic recovery to the country.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

What about economic sovereignty?

Deputy Joan Burton

I note to the Deputy that were we to decide in some way to retreat from our position at the core of the eurozone, it would leave investors in Ireland perplexed and bewildered. The reason they are investing in Ireland is because it is a critical location for multinational and international companies to invest in the eurozone.

In response to Deputy Finian McGrath, the legislation in respect of the referendum on the 30th amendment has been debated in the House all week. I understand one amendment has been tabled for Committee Stage. Ultimately, the referendum is the property of the citizens of Ireland, who will vote-----

Deputy Finian McGrath

Even though 39% of them still do not know how they intend to vote, the Government wishes to guillotine the Bill.

Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin

The Deputy is one of them.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Order, please.

Deputy Joan Burton

Deputy McGrath should note the citizens-----

Deputy Finian McGrath

This is a disgrace as the Government seeks to kill the debate.

Deputy Martin Ferris

This is coming from those who did not accept the will of the people previously.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy McGrath, please.

Deputy Joan Burton

The citizens of our republic-----

Deputy Finian McGrath

Yes, 39% of whom do not know.

Deputy Joan Burton

-----will be those who will make the decision as to whether to vote "Yes" or "No" to the referendum question. The arrangements in this House are to give the citizens an opportunity to make their decision at the ballot box on the referendum.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

Will the Government accept it?

Deputy Finian McGrath

The Government is closing down debate.

Deputy Joan Burton

The referendum already has been debated in the House throughout this week for approximately nine hours. One amendment has been tabled for Committee Stage, for which one hour of debate is provided. As all Members are anxious to be able to go to the citizens and have political discussions and conversations with them about what, in their wisdom, they should decide to do, Deputy Finian McGrath should not seek to impede the citizens' ability to have a full and proper debate on the referendum.

Deputy Finian McGrath

The Government is closing down debate. This is censorship.

Question put:

The Dáil divided: Tá, 69; Níl, 16.

Tá

• Bannon, James.
• Barry, Tom.
• Breen, Pat.
• Broughan, Thomas P.
• Burton, Joan.
• Butler, Ray.
• Buttimer, Jerry.
• Byrne, Catherine.
• Byrne, Eric.
• Calleary, Dara.
• Cannon, Ciarán.
• Conaghan, Michael.
• Conlan, Seán.
• Connaughton, Paul J.
• Corcoran Kennedy, Marcella.
• Costello, Joe.
• Daly, Jim.
• Deenihan, Jimmy.
• Deering, Pat.
• Doherty, Regina.
• Donohoe, Paschal.
• Dooley, Timmy.
• Doyle, Andrew.
• Durkan, Bernard J.
• Farrell, Alan.
• Feighan, Frank.
• Ferris, Anne.
• Fitzgerald, Frances.
• Flanagan, Charles.
• Flanagan, Terence.
• Griffin, Brendan.
• Harrington, Noel.
• Harris, Simon.
• Heydon, Martin.
• Humphreys, Heather.
• Humphreys, Kevin.
• Keating, Derek.
• Kehoe, Paul.
• Kenny, Seán.
• Kyne, Seán.
• Lawlor, Anthony.
• Lynch, Kathleen.
• McHugh, Joe.
• McLoughlin, Tony.
• Maloney, Eamonn.
• Mathews, Peter.
• Mitchell, Olivia.
• Mitchell O’Connor, Mary.
• Moynihan, Michael.
• Mulherin, Michelle.
• Murphy, Dara.
• Neville, Dan.
• Ó Cuív, Éamon.
• Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
• Ó Ríordáin, Aodhán.
• O’Donovan, Patrick.
• O’Mahony, John.
• Perry, John.
• Phelan, Ann.
• Phelan, John Paul.
• Reilly, James.
• Ryan, Brendan.
• Smith, Brendan.
• Spring, Arthur.
• Stagg, Emmet.
• Stanton, David.
• Wall, Jack.
• Walsh, Brian.
• White, Alex.

Níl

• Adams, Gerry.
• Collins, Joan.
• Colreavy, Michael.
• Daly, Clare.
• Ferris, Martin.
• Flanagan, Luke ‘Ming’.
• Fleming, Tom.
• Healy-Rae, Michael.
• McGrath, Finian.
• McLellan, Sandra.
• Murphy, Catherine.
• Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
• Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
• O’Brien, Jonathan.
• Ross, Shane.
• Wallace, Mick.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Paul Kehoe; Níl, Deputies Aengus Ó Snodaigh and Catherine Murphy.

Question declared carried.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 13, motion re statement for information of voters in respect of the Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Treaty on Stability, Coordination and Governance in the Economic and Monetary Union) Bill 2012 agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 34, Burial and Cremation Regulation Bill 2011 - Second Stage, agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for the sitting and business of the Dáil on Friday, 11 May 2012 agreed? Agreed.

Deputy Seán Ó Fearghaíl

Before moving on and with regard to Dáil reform, we will have no opportunity today to pursue Order of Business matters, and that should be looked at. When a vote is called, the time for the Order of Business is consumed but the Tánaiste agreed some time ago to examine the issue. Could it be put back on the agenda so we can do something about it as a matter of urgency?

Deputy Joan Burton

This is a matter of Dáil reform so perhaps it can be taken up with the Whips in that context.

Deputy Charles Flanagan

The Deputy's party had 14 years.

Deputy Brendan Smith

There was no restriction on the Order of Business.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

The Deputy might not remember but there was no restriction whatever.