Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 24 May 2012

Vol. 766 No. 3

Topical Issue Debate

Closed Circuit Television Systems

Deputy Charles Flanagan

I thank the Ceann Comhairle's office for allowing me to raise this issue which, unlike many of the issues that are raised in this House, creates no resource implications nor is there any seeking of grant aid or State money. I merely ask that the Department of Justice and Equality and the Garda Síochána would facilitate the system of cameras in rural areas predominantly, but also in urban areas, due to the increase in burglaries and the fear of credit crunch crime that is particularly evident in rural areas. There was a 32% increase in recorded break-ins in my constituency of Laois-Offaly in 2011. This statistic is the second highest in the country. I am sure I speak for every Member when I express concern at the increase in crime and crime against property in particular.

The issue I raise is compounded by a reduction in resources available. We all accept these are challenging times and that budgetary reductions impinge upon the Department of Justice and Equality and the Garda Síochána as much as any other sector. There are fewer gardaí, an older Garda transport fleet with clapped out cars in some cases and fewer Garda patrols, whether on foot, bike or car. The total number of gardaí is reduced and there is a continuing threat to rural Garda stations. The Minister recently announced his intention to close some more stations. Even accepting the difficult financial situation, we must acknowledge the very important role of communities and what they can contribute towards the coming together of groups and the prevention of crime. I contend one such way would be the pooling of financial resources to install CCTV cameras in their areas. I am most cognisant of the privacy and data protection and data collection issues and Garda issues.

I refer to section 38 of the Garda Síochána Act 2005 which allows the Garda Commissioner to apply such consent. The local authorities should employ a local authority liaison officer to liaise with the Garda liaison officer and the local communities.

I compliment the community alert organisations and neighbourhood watch committees for their endeavours up and down the country. I ask that the Department of Justice and Equality and the Garda Síochána co-ordinate with regard to the letter and spirit of section 38 of the Garda Síochána Act 2005, to facilitate the installation, in a very careful manner, of cameras in local communities. Local authorities must interact with the Garda Síochána and also with community groups. The law facilitates a designated local authority official to act as the data controller to ensure proper and responsible operation of the camera system. A code of practice has been published by the Department of Justice and Equality and this will ensure that public confidence in the operation of community-based CCTV systems is maintained.

What I am asking for does not involve the expenditure of any money on the part of the State and neither does it involve the changing of any law nor the introduction of any new regulations. Instead, it involves the will and commitment on the part of the Department and the Garda Síochána at senior level and the local authorities, to ensure that we can bring this to bear. Communities wish to protect their own people and their own property and I encourage them to do so and the State should assist them in so doing.

Minister of State at the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht (Deputy Dinny McGinley)

I am responding to this matter on behalf of the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Mr. Alan Shatter, who thanks the Deputy for raising this matter.

The community-based CCTV scheme was first launched in 2005 to provide financial assistance towards the capital costs of establishing community CCTV systems. To date, two major rounds of the scheme have been advertised in 2005-06 and in 2007, under which 45 substantive schemes were approved for funding of which 43 are now fully operational. In total, some €7.27 million in grant awards has been announced under the scheme, comprising funding from the Department of Justice and Equality and the Department formerly responsible for community and the Gaeltacht.

The current position is that while the funding provided under the previous two rounds has been fully allocated, the installation of a number of the grant-aided projects is ongoing. No decision has been made as to the possible further extension of the community-based CCTV scheme. However, any future plans for such an extension will depend on a number of factors, including the progression of projects already grant aided and the availability of funding.

The Deputy will be aware that in addition to the community CCTV scheme, there are is a substantial number of Garda CCTV systems operating in many parts of the country.

It should be noted that the value of CCTV systems is principally as an aid to support policing and to provide a deterrent to crime and public disorder. These schemes are not and were never intended to be a replacement for more traditional policing methods and Garda engagement with local communities.

In that context, under the national model of community policing, which was launched in 2009, each Garda district and divisional officer develops appropriate operational strategies to meet the policing needs of the local community. This includes the establishment of clear policing objectives such as high visibility in the community, ease of contact by members of the public and enhanced support for crime prevention strategies such as community alert, neighbourhood watch and crimestoppers. The Deputy will also be familiar with the Garda initiative, Operation Fiacla, which is particularly focused on identifying and targeting mobile gangs involved in burglaries around the country with the aim of disrupting their activities and bringing them before the courts. Operation Fiacla is intelligence-driven and specific burglary initiatives have been implemented in each Garda region to target suspect offenders.

The focus of An Garda Síochána is to ensure the safety of communities, both rural and urban, through maximising the efficient use of available resources and enhancing engagement to ensure the best possible policing service is provided. This will continue to be the case.

Deputy Charles Flanagan

I wish briefly to reiterate my point. I am not talking about money, grant aid or an extension of schemes that would involve further public expenditure. The Minister of State's own constituency in Donegal is no different from mine. Garda patrols are less frequent and some Garda stations are being closed, while opening hours in others are restricted. The Minister of State referred to the national model of community policing. Will he recommend that where local communities have already got funds in place, a Garda liaison officer will assist them? If we were in times of plenty this would not be an issue. We would have gardaí on foot patrol, in fast patrol cars and on motorbikes, but we do not have such services in rural Ireland.

For years, in the Laois-Offaly Garda division, in my constituency, we had five superintendents and one chief superintendent. We now have no chief superintendent and only one superintendent. I am asking the Minister of State to explain to the Minister for Justice and Equality that we are not seeking funding or grant aid, but are looking for the current laws to be facilitated. The current regulations should encourage local gardaí to work in partnership with the community when they obviously cannot police areas in the same way as they have since the foundation of the State.

Deputy Dinny McGinley

I thank the Deputy for the information he has brought forward and the proposals he has made. I can assure him that they will be brought to the Minister's attention as soon as possible.

Deputy Charles Flanagan

I thank the Minister of State.

Future of National Library

Deputy Alex White

I am glad of this opportunity to raise this matter with the Minister of State. It arises on foot of the resignation from the board of the National Library of Professor Diarmaid Ferriter, as reported in this morning's newspapers. It is a matter of regret that somebody as genuinely publicly engaged as Professor Ferriter should choose this course of action. As a historian and member of the library's board, he has been involved in the important work on the centenary commemorations. The Minister of State is fully aware of its importance as well as being engaged in it. Amongst others, Professor Ferriter has been prominent in that area and will continue to be active. This may not be directly related to the issue I wish to raise, but it has some connection with it.

Professor Ferriter's resignation is regrettable and he has indicated that it is partly as a result of the funding issue, which is obviously frustrating. It has at least as much to do with what he described as the manner in which these issues appear to have been dealt with. I presume he has been quoted accurately in the newspapers. Professor Ferriter has referred to "offensive and disingenuous double-speak" as being a cause of concern to him. I do not know whether the Minister of State wishes to respond to that or if he has any knowledge about what Professor Ferriter is referring to.

Even allowing for some measure of hyperbole in that reference, however, it is of concern that Professor Ferriter felt it necessary to resign from the board of the National Library. There has been very little debate about the proposed merger of the National Library and the National Archives. It is worthy of debate, including in these Houses. Will the Minister indicate to the House what is the current state of play with regard to the proposed merger? We also need to debate the rationale for this merger because they are two separate and distinct institutions. That alone is not a reason for keeping them separate and it may be that there is a rationale for the merger. If one looks at the history of the National Library and the National Archives, however, it is clear that they have come from two distinct traditions and disciplines, and were established for different reasons.

Although I was very young in the mid-1980s - like the Acting Chairman, Deputy Durkan - I well remember the then Taoiseach, Dr. Garret FitzGerald, introducing the Bill to establish the National Archives. It was profoundly progressive legislation that was introduced by that Government, which has transformed the whole archival project in this country. The preservation of State records and other papers, as well as making them available periodically subject to different rules, was an immensely important achievement for this State going back 30 years. That work has been extremely important for us.

On the other hand, the National Library is an immensely important institution next door to us here in Kildare Street. It is held in worldwide respect and admiration for its connection to the works of many writers and scholars. It is a premier national cultural institution whose recent achievements include the Yeats exhibition and the National Photographic Archive.

However, the National Library and the National Archives are separate institutions, so I would like to know the rationale for merging them. We should debate that matter in this House. I note the Minister for Education and Skills has arrived in the Chamber. We had a debate yesterday on the amalgamation of particular agencies under his Department, and the rationale for those mergers was not simply based on cost. Everybody understands the necessity to make savings. It may not be the view of the Minister or his departmental officials, but simply because the National Archives and the National Library deal with documents is not, of itself, a reason to bang them together and produce a new institution.

There are different disciplines and requirements for holding archives than those the National Library must observe. The disciplines, requirements and parameters for making documents accessible are all different. We should debate precisely what is going on in this regard, including what the proposal is, where it currently stands and what the cost saving will actually be. Will there indeed be a saving in this proposed merger? The National Archives is under severe pressure of space to accommodate State records it is required to preserve. The National Library has its own pressures also, so will we end up saving anything?

We have two distinct cultural institutions, the identities of which should be maintained and promoted. If synergies can be achieved through storage or otherwise, let us do that. I remain to be convinced, however, as to the rationale or desirability of merging these two institutions.

Deputy Dinny McGinley

I thank Deputy White for raising this matter. As he will be aware, in November 2011, the Government announced a number of amalgamations and mergers of bodies that come within the ambit of the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht. Details of these can be accessed on the website of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform at www.per.gov.ie.

The amalgamation and merger of these bodies, including the possible consolidation of boards, raises complex issues which the Department is currently examining. In that context, the views of the various interested parties are being noted and considered.

My Department has established a high level reform committee and is liaising with relevant bodies, including the National Archives, the Irish Manuscripts Commission and the National Library, in order to implement the Government's decisions in these matters as effectively and efficiently as possible. The Minister expects to revert to Government on progress made concerning this process by end-June of this year.

Professor Diarmaid Ferriter notified my colleague the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Jimmy Deenihan, by e-mail late last evening, of his intention to step down from the board of the National Library of Ireland.

I would like, first, to pay tribute to Professor Ferriter on my own behalf and on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Deenihan, for his public service not simply on the board of the National Library, but also his continuing service on the National Archives Advisory Council as well as the Government's Advisory Group on Centenary Commemorations. Professor Ferriter's remarks may be partly born out of frustration at the necessary reductions in programme funding with which all public bodies, including the National Library and our other cultural institutions, have been challenged. Unfortunately, the Government has no option in this regard and the economic realities pertaining to the public funding available simply have to be faced and overcome while exhorting our national cultural institutions to maintain the best level of public service possible. It is worth recalling, lest we lose sight of recent history, that the Government inherited an economy in serious trouble and an unsustainable Exchequer deficit. I, like other Ministers, had no alternative to the redistribution of reduced allocations to all State and cultural institutions. Day to day funding for the National Library was cut by 5.4% to €6.62 million in 2012. That is almost on a par with its 2004 allocation at the height of the economic good times. In contrast, the previous Government cut the day to day allocation to the National Library by 28% in the three years to 2011. It, too, planned to amalgamate the National Library and the National Archives.

The funding reductions in the cultural institutions are just one aspect of change that must be tackled. The Government announced its public service reform plan last November, some aspects of which relate to the National Library. Engagement and examination has been ongoing in regard to proposed reforms. The Minister met the board of the National Library earlier this year and officials of the Department are meeting jointly with the directors of the National Library and the National Archives next week to follow up on their previous bilateral consultations with each of the institutions affected. It is regrettable that Professor Ferriter was unable to attend the meeting between the Minister, Deputy Deenihan, and the National Library board or any of many official engagements by the Minister at the National Library since his appointment. The Minister was, and is always, prepared to discuss the concerns of board members in regard to any national cultural institutions, including in particular the National Library.

The engagement on the reform agenda in the Department is continuing. Last week, the Minister, Deputy Deenihan, met the chairs of the national cultural institutions collectively, including the chair of the National Library, and there was an extensive discussion on all aspects of the public service reform plan. At that meeting, the Minister, Deputy Deenihan, confirmed that he would revert to the Government on options for the reform proposals for the National Library, the National Archives and the National Museum, inter alia. It is at that juncture that final decisions will be made in regard to rationalisations, restructuring and shared services. The chairs proposed a joint paper on reform and the Minister is currently awaiting that. In the meantime, the Minister has exhorted the institutions to continue to deliver the quality public and cultural service for which they are widely recognised.

We live in times unprecedented in decades in this country. Change is unavoidable. The Minister's objective in addressing change in the sectoral areas, for which he has responsibility, is to effect it in a manner which strengthens the continuation of public service delivery by national cultural institutions, through shared back office services and necessary structural reform. In an era of diminished Exchequer capacity, that is a very serious challenge. It is a matter of regret to all of us that Professor Ferriter cannot join in addressing that challenge.

Deputy Alex White

I thank the Minister of State for his response. I am sure both institutions will respond well to the exhortation that they would continue to deliver the quality public service that they always have delivered. One need only go into the National Library, which is next door to the Houses, and see the amazing and valuable work that is done there for the State and the people of Ireland in terms of facilitating scholars and members of the public. It is an immensely important public institution. Equally, great work is done in the National Archives. One need only look at the digitisation of the census of 1901 and 1911 and the production of the really high quality material that has been produced for and made available to the public. The people who work in those institutions will not be found wanting in their efforts. Equally, we, as politicians and legislators, and the Government must play our part and we owe it not only to the institutions and the people who work there, but to the people of Ireland to do that. We often say what is at issue is about the people of Ireland when we make points in the Dáil. This is crucially about our history, heritage and future access by scholars and citizens to vital assets and resources. It is important that the discussions in which the Minister is engaging will be shared with the public - I am sure he will do that - and that we will have a public discussion on these issues. That is vitally important. The rationale for decisions, a cost-benefit analysis, ascertaining if there is a saving in this respect, and a regulatory impact assessment must be addressed. I have doubts about whether there will be a cost saving here give the pressures for space and everything else these institutions have.

I very much doubt that Professor Ferriter would make this decision lightly, that he would lightly say that he was exposed to what he called "offensive and disingenuous double-speak". I do not know the source of what caused him to say that but that is a statement he made and I do not believe he would have made it lightly. Nor do I believe that similar remarks, which I do not have to hand, were made lightly by the recently retired director of the National Museum, Pat Wallace, when he retired and spoke of his frustration not so much about decisions that were being made, but about other matters. People understand and are working with the necessity to make cuts in terms of funding but the issue is how we deal with people who have an expertise. They should not be placed on a pedestal and treated like gods but they should be involved in this assessment, work and in this debate. If anything has happened in terms of how this particular person was treated which has caused him to pull himself out of the picture in regard to this, that is extremely regrettable and an effort should be made to repair that rupture, if it is possible, because this is an extremely important area for all of us.

Deputy Dinny McGinley

I acknowledge the points raised by the Deputy and they will be brought to the attention of the Minister as soon as possible. On a personal note, I have a positive experience of having been in the National Library. The Deputy mentioned that scholars go there. Poor scholars and students used to go there and there was many a night I spent in the reading room there studying whatever I was doing at the time.

An ongoing process involving wide consultation is taking place. Papers are being prepared. I have no doubt that any dealings I or any other Minister will have with individuals will be dealt in a very sensitive manner. Many of these people have given their services and expertise, often freely, to the State, which is appreciated, and sensitivity will be employed in this regard.

Human Rights Issues

Deputy Mick Wallace

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for providing me with the opportunity to raise this issue. The campaign in Libya was originally driven by the former French President, Mr. Sarkozy, to boost his prospects of getting re-elected more than anything else. A great deal of attention was given to the whole episode but as soon as Gadaffi was killed, the media seemed to lose interest and it has obviously moved on to another issue since then.

What has become obvious since then is that the conflict in Libya was a civil war and NATO took one particular side. I have no intention of trying to defend what Gadaffi was up to but I do not agree with military intervention in this manner. It has caused at least as many problems as it has solved.

It was difficult to get accurate coverage of what was going on at the time given that the media was very much looking for Gaddafi's head. However, some seven months later, we have had reports from Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International and a commission of inquiry has been appointed by the UN. Not only have they found that 8,000 prisoners have been held without trial, but there have been rampant torture and routine deaths in detention. There has been ethnic cleansing in Tawergha, a town of 30,000 mainly black Libyans, which is already in the frame as a crime against humanity, and there has been continual violent persecution of sub-Saharan Africans across the country. The country has broken down into a lawless land and some of the measures introduced by the interim government, the National Transitional Council, have left much to be desired, including clamping freedom of speech and the disqualification of some election candidates. Whether we like it or not, the political forces of NATO have played a decisive role in bringing these people to power. Human Rights Watch and the UN report have found NATO has been guilty of numerous civilian deaths. They have sought a response from NATO and its co-operation with an inquiry but NATO has refused, stating it does not have a mandate to do so. If an international force such as NATO can go to a place such as this, one would like to think it would be accountable for what it does but unfortunately it does not seem so.

Given that we were keen to support it at the time there is an onus on the Government not to ignore the human rights abuses taking place. I do not expect us to go out there and act on a military basis but the least we can do is raise our voice and show our discomfort at what is happening.

Minister for Education and Skills (Deputy Ruairí Quinn)

Approximately 15 months after the Libyan uprising began it is clear the Libyan people, supported by the international community, are making progress towards establishing a democratic and functioning state. However, as the Deputy indicated, major challenges remain.

Ireland has engaged actively on this issue in the UN and EU frameworks, lending support to international efforts to promote reconciliation in the country and to help transform Libya into a properly functioning democracy in which the rule of law is fully respected and basic human rights are guaranteed for all. In this context, we wholeheartedly welcomed the establishment of the United Nations support mission for Libya, UNSMIL. We strongly support the work of the mission in leading the international community's practical assistance during the transition period. This assistance is being provided in support of Libya's own efforts in a range of areas, including the restoration of public security and order, the promotion of the rule of law, the restoration of public services and support for human rights.

Respect for and the promotion of human rights remains a cornerstone of Ireland's foreign policy, as is evidenced by our candidacy for the UN Human Rights Council. We pay unfaltering attention, across the globe and more particularly in countries such as Libya which are emerging from authoritarian and repressive rule, to the development of a genuine democratic and human rights culture, supported by effective institutions that promote and defend basic rights and freedoms.

In this regard, in March Ireland co-sponsored a resolution in the UN Human Rights Council which welcomed the establishment by the interim government of the Council of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms in Libya and which, in addition, commended the preparations being made for the elections of the Libyan National Congress which are scheduled to take place next month. These are critical elections in terms of determining Libya's future course as a democratic nation and it is very important they should proceed on schedule.

The issue of accountability for the many serious human rights violations which occurred during last year's conflict is crucial. The International Criminal Court has issued warrants for the arrests of two of the principal figures in the Gadaffi regime, namely Gadaffi's son, Saif Al-Islam, and his intelligence chief, Abdullah Al-Senussi. Libya is seeking to try Saif Al-lslam in Libya and the Pre-Trial Chamber of the ICC will now have to issue a ruling on this. The important issue is that all countries, including Mauritania which has detained Abdullah Al-Senussi in custody, co-operate fully with the efforts of the ICC to achieve justice for Gadaffi's many victims in Libya.

The need to improve security and to establish the rule of law in Libya is also urgent. I am seriously concerned at recent reports to the effect that some of the armed militias in Libya are, as the Deputy alleged, committing human rights abuses on a very large scale and with impunity, as documented in Amnesty International's report of 16 February. In particular, the treatment of the estimated 4,000 detainees remaining in facilities under the control of armed brigades is an issue of grave concern. I urge the interim government, in close collaboration with UNSMIL, to accelerate the transfer of detainees to facilities under the authority of the Ministry of the Interior and to ensure they are treated in strict accordance with international standards.

We also fully support the call by UN Special Representative Martin for all incidents of torture or ill-treatment in any detention centre in Libya, no matter under whose control, to be fully investigated and for such practices to be ended instantly.

Along with our EU and international partners, Ireland will continue to work to ensure that the need for respect for human rights is given prominent recognition in the process of reform and reconstruction which must now get under way in Libya. We remain fully committed to assisting the Libyan people to re-build their country peacefully and on the basis of democratic values centred around human rights and fundamental freedoms.

Deputy Mick Wallace

The Minister mentioned that Amnesty International quoted a figure of 4,000 in February but the UN report issued in May cited a figure of 9,000. When NATO began bombing the estimated death toll of militias and civilians was estimated at 2,000. Several months ago the National Transitional Council came up with a figure of 30,000. It goes to show how the situation has deteriorated rapidly.

What I find so disillusioning is when NATO begins a bombing campaign there is great interest but then NATO abandons the place and what occurs is not policed in the same way. NATO did what it was going to do and there was nothing more in it for Sarkozy and those who supported him and we have seen too much of this over the years. Recently, President Obama told us he would continue to protect the people of Afghanistan after ten years. A recent survey in Afghanistan showed more than 80% of the people agreed the war had been very bad for them. I do not think they really need the protection of the United States given the carnage they caused there.

NATO is now beyond reproach and this underlines the fact that international law does not apply to the big powers which can do what they like. Since it was established, the International Criminal Court has indicted 28 people from seven countries for war crimes and crimes against humanity and every one of them is African. It is a bit on the biased side. Military intervention is not the shortcut to freedom we often pretend, and far from saving lives it escalates the slaughter. I wish the Government was more vocal on the matter.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn

I thank the Deputy for raising this important issue. No one underestimates the challenges facing Libya today. It has suffered four decades of misrule by one man and the country must be rebuilt virtually from scratch. This is a very difficult task in this modern time. It is vital that respect for and promotion of human rights remain central to the mission of the current interim government and the administration which will be elected next month to oversee the drawing up of a new constitution. The Libyan people who so bravely defied Gadaffi and brought his dictatorship to an end expect no less.

The Government is committed to strengthening the already good relations which exist between Ireland and Libya. We are fortunate that a number of members of the interim government are dual citizens who came to Ireland to escape Gadaffi's repression in the first instance. I assure the Deputy the Government is working hard to strengthen our ties in all areas and to offer whatever practical assistance we can. While there are self-evidently limits to what we can do, I assure the Deputy that anything that can be done is being contemplated and will be implemented if that is the request of the Libyan people.

Schools Building Projects

Deputy Sean Fleming

I thank the Minister for being present to deal with this important issue of the school building project for Scoil Bhríde in Portlaoise. As the Minister will be aware, Portlaoise is the fastest growing town in Ireland and Laois is the fastest growing county with a 20% increase based on the recent census figures. Portlaoise also has the highest proportion of pre-school age children for any for any region in the country. While there has been a big increase in population in recent years, it is clear that is continuing and will require additional educational facilities in coming years.

The Minister will be aware that Scoil Bhríde, Knockmay, is the largest primary school in County Laois, with 744 pupils being educated in inadequate accommodation. The school is at stage 2(b) of the Department's process. The parish donated a site free of charge and planning permission has been granted, putting the school in a very strong position. It is seeking to move on to the pre-qualification process as part of the tendering process. It is at that stage and ready to move. The new school site is fully available. The school is paying €200,000 per annum on rent for prefabs. It is also a DEIS school with only eight permanent classrooms as it was built a number of years ago. Some of its prefabs are up to 25 years old.

My request is modest but important for the school. Given that planning permission has been granted and that the school is at stage 2(b) of the Department's process, I am asking that it be allowed enter the pre-qualification tendering process, which will take a number of months - the tendering will also take a few months - with a view to construction commencing in 2013. The Department's latest schedule issued earlier this year indicated that the school would move to construction in 2014 or 2015. A delay to 2015 would be of great concern to the parents concerned.

In that context the four Oireachtas Members from County Laois met the board of management, the teachers and the parents separately. I met them along with the Minister's party colleague recently. I wrote to the Minister on 9 May requesting a meeting with the four Oireachtas Members on the matter. We were very disappointed to receive a letter from the Minister on 14 May stating he was not in a position to meet us. I have never encountered a Minister refusing to meet four Oireachtas colleagues. We did not ask him to visit the school or to meet a delegation from the school for an hour. We understand the time pressure he is under and suggested having a short meeting to put the case. In view of that refusal I have had to deal with the matter by way of Topical Issue.

The children deserve better facilities and there have been considerable second level developments in Portlaoise in recent years. There is a plan for new complexes for five new primary schools in the eastern end of Portlaoise. Portlaoise should have six primary schools fully completed within five or six years but Scoil Bhríde will be the only one on the western half of the town. While that might not mean anything to Members of this House, it is significant in terms of the geography and demographics. While all the others are moving apace - they could move faster, but we accept resources are limited - this is the only school that in this year's announcement was moved into a slow lane.

It had planning approval and was ready to move on to the pre-tender stage. I still believe the Minister could grant agreement to allow it move on to that stage. It will take several months and the Department will not incur capital costs in this calendar year. If that process was allowed to commence and given that preparing the final tendering documents would not involve on-site work, the school should be allowed to commence construction in 2013 rather than a year or two later. It has created great anxiety for those involved in the school. They have taken a long time to get to this stage and now see the process slowed down. We welcome the other development in the town, to which I will refer in my supplementary contribution. It will not cost a considerable amount in the overall scheme of things - it is just moving it forward somewhat faster than the Department had planned.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn

I thank the Deputy for raising the issue of Scoil Bhríde primary school in Portlaoise. I welcome the opportunity it affords me to outline the Government's strategy for capital investment in school building projects over the next five years. It also allows me to outline the new school accommodation to be delivered in Portlaoise under the five-year construction programme and to update the Dáil on the status of the new school building project for Scoil Bhríde primary school.

In order to meet the needs of our growing population of school-going children, the Department must establish new schools as well as extend or replace a number of existing schools in areas where demographic growth has been identified. The delivery of these new schools, together with extension projects to meet future demand, will be the main focus for the Department's capital budget for the coming years. Scoil Bhríde is one of 275 schools for which projects which have been scheduled to commence construction over the five years of the programme. In scheduling when each project can proceed to construction, the Department must take into account the funding available annually and the requirement to provide additional school places to meet the increasing demographic needs which I outlined when launching the programme.

There are three major building projects in Portlaoise which have been included in the five-year programme. A single-campus project to provide three new schools on one site for Portlaoise Educate Together, Gaelscoil Phortlaoise and Maryborough national school is scheduled to commence construction in 2013. This project, when complete, will provide 21 additional mainstream classrooms which will accommodate approximately 588 pupils. The additional accommodation being provided in these schools also substantially increases the diversity of provision available in the area. A second project, to deliver two new schools to cater for the amalgamation of St Paul's, the Sacred Heart and Scoil Mhuire national schools is also scheduled to commence construction in 2013. The third project which will see the construction of a new 32-classroom school building with special needs unit for Scoil Bhríde, Knockmay, is scheduled to commence construction in 2014 or 2015.

The design team for Scoil Bhríde is currently working on the stage 2(b) submission, including the preparation of tender documents, which, on completion, will be forwarded to my Department for review. Planning permission, disability access and fire safety certificates have all been secured. In February, the school was requested to contact the Department with regard to pre-qualification of contractors, five weeks prior to its expected date for the submission of the stage 2(b) report. I understand that the school has not yet contacted the Department in this regard. If the Deputy has information to the contrary, perhaps he might let us know. Pre-qualification of contractors is an integral part of the tender process and cannot be conducted too far in advance of the main tender for appointment of the contractor.

Following submission of the stage 2(b) report and assuming no issues arise, my Department will be in further contact with the board of management regarding pre-qualification of contractors at a suitable date to allow the tender and construction of the project to proceed as scheduled on the five-year construction programme.

Deputy Sean Fleming

I appreciate the time the Minister has given today. The Minister is not saying "No" to commencing construction in 2013-----

Deputy Ruairí Quinn

I am not.

Deputy Sean Fleming

-----although I know he said 2015. That in itself provides some glimmer of hope. I will contact the school and relay the request to contact the Department with regard to the pre-qualification of contractors, five weeks prior to the expected date for the submission of the stage 2(b) report. As the Minister is an architect, he might explain that in simpler English so that we all fully understand what is meant.

Scoil Bhríde had been at the planning permission stage. Owing to the town's population increase in recent years, two major secondary schools - a new CBS and convent, and Portlaoise College run by the VEC - have been completed in Portlaoise,. We have the best suite of modern secondary schools of any town in the country completed in recent years.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn

Portlaoise deserves them.

Deputy Sean Fleming

We acknowledge that. As the Minister said, at the Summerhill campus, three primary schools are amalgamating into two and a new site has been acquired for Educate Together the gaelscoil and Maryborough Church of Ireland national school. The Gaelscoil, Educate Together and Maryborough national school are located in the town, so the town already has diversity of provision, albeit not in the best accommodation. Some of them are located in old VEC offices or in quite old buildings. The Gaelscoil has a temporary arrangement, so we look forward to those projects proceeding. However, Scoil Bhríde, Knockmay, was further advanced in the process, given that planning permission has not been obtained for any of the other school projects, yet it is not being allowed to proceed to the pre-tendering and construction stage as soon as some of the other schools.

Will the Minister allow the Scoil Bhríde project to proceed at least at the same pace as the other projects? I urge him not to disadvantage the largest and only major DEIS school in the county by putting it a year or two behind the others. If there are spanking new schools at one end of the town, pupils will drift to those schools and that is understandable. I am sure the Minister has some flexibility in the plan so I ask him to ensure this project does not lag behind the others but moves at the same pace. I conclude with that but perhaps the Minister will confirm precisely what he meant by his earlier reference.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn

We fully recognise that Portlaoise is quite extraordinary and unique in the scale and rapidity with which the population has increased. There are procedures in place and we have brought forward our procedures six weeks ahead of the projected time. There are difficulties with the management and the Department, and the Deputy is better placed to find out about those on the ground. Certainly, pre-contract and tendering procedures are required before one can sign off on the contractor. I am speaking in general terms because I do not have the full details on this. A contractor who has been identified as a prospective contractor for the project will have to deliver documentation to confirm that he or the company - it is usually a he but not always - is in a position to proceed and would have the necessary bond information and documentation. That is difficult at present, given the financial situation. I have encountered a number of cases where bonds have been procured and offered but they have not been satisfactory. That might be one of the issues.

However, if the Deputy can contact the school and find out what the difficulty is, he should make direct contact with my office and find out if we can accelerate it. This school is necessary and the construction industry and unemployed construction workers need more work. There is no benefit, interest or political motive on our part in this not proceeding. The provision is in place. I welcome the Deputy raising the matter and if he can come back to me with the information, we will accelerate it.