Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 3 Jul 2012

Vol. 771 No. 1

Topical Issue Debate

Media Mergers

Deputy Willie Penrose

I thank the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Bruton, for coming to the House today as I know he is busy. I thank the Chair for allowing me to raise what I believe is a very important issue - important for the citizens of this Republic, for the politics of this country and for democracy itself. In recent weeks I had the opportunity to familiarise myself with some of the evidence proffered at the Leveson inquiry in London. I could not but notice that, at the conclusion of each day's evidence, reference was made by a number of witnesses, especially those who were political participants, to the concentration of media ownership and the fact that an excessive concentration of media ownership was not a healthy development. Plurality and diversity of ownership is an essential bulwark of democracy, as recognised by the advisory group on media mergers in recommendation No. 11 of its report.

While recent events in Ireland have brought the matter to centre stage, I am not personally motivated by the fact that ownership of Independent News and Media might transfer from one oligarch to another. However, I am deeply concerned by the fact that, as a result of developments in this area, an undue concentration of media ownership in all its various manifestations and diversity in the hands of a particular individual, corporation or undertaking, and control by a particular individual, can arise. The fact the Competition Authority would be concerned with the effect of such a development on the advertising market but would have little or no dealings with regard to media plurality is a cause for concern in the current legal situation.

I cannot but be extremely disappointed at the slowness of progress, amounting to what I term clear and unnecessary foot-dragging on behalf of the previous Government, and now this Government, in implementing the concise recommendations of the advisory group on media mergers. Its report was completed in June 2008, under the chairmanship of Mr. Paul Sreenan, SC, and was clearly available to the then Government, notwithstanding that the report was not published until 2009.

I say to the Minister that we do not need any more excuses or side-stepping. If there is a particular problem blocking the progress of this important legislation, he should deal with it. I understand the cohort of legislative proposals dealing with media mergers is contained within the consumer and competition Bill and, indeed, I further recall that the go-ahead for the heads of the Bill was given at Cabinet last July, almost 12 months ago. The consumer and competition Bill is clearly Deputy Bruton's responsibility as Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation. He should get a move on. If there are issues holding up progress, he should extract from the consumer and competition Bill the legislative proposals dealing with media mergers, which are stand-alone provisions in any event and could be incorporated into a short Bill, which could then be introduced onto the floor of the Oireachtas next week by the Minister who has responsibility for same, the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources. Let us get on with the important and urgent business of putting vital legislation on the Statute Book.

The advisory group on media mergers produced an excellent report which set out what needed to be done to protect Irish society against an undue concentration of media ownership and how this could be properly regulated in the public interest. We must recognise, as pointed out by the report, the important role played by the media in a democracy, how this should be recognised by statute and what is required to ensure actual diversity of both content and ownership. The report was concise in identifying the fact there is a lack of clarity in respect of the relevant criteria for media mergers as currently defined, and a glaring absence of clear statutory mechanisms to protect the public interest in media plurality.

Legislation will have to deal with the definition of media business, which should now clearly encompass the Internet and all other such forms of communication which are now of such major importance in terms of the dissemination of information and influence on public debate. The advisory group also dealt with the role of the Competition Authority and, in particular, advocated a reduced role for the authority in assessing the plurality aspects of media mergers. A further recommendation focused upon the introduction of a statutory test to help guide the Minister in making decisions, which I welcome as being extremely important.

As I understand it, this legislation was expected to be published earlier this year. I would like to know what has caused the proposed legislation to lose its place on the list, especially when it would have a clear objective of ensuring the continuing existence of an active and diverse media sector in terms of both ownership and content. Chapter 8, which contains the recommendations, represents the fulcrum of the changes that are urgently required and the Sreenan principles clearly acknowledge the importance of the plurality of the media and what it would contain.

Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation (Deputy Richard Bruton)

I thank Deputy Penrose for raising this issue. I assure him there is no intent on my part to delay this in any way. In fact, as he rightly said, I went to Government in July last year to bring forward proposals. That legislation contains not just the media merger proposals but also contains two important programme for Government commitments, the merger of the Competition Authority and the National Consumer Agency and the introduction of measures to deal with unfair trading in the grocery sector.

I would like to give the Deputy some assurance that while, clearly, the system needs to be improved and we are setting about improving the criteria to implement those changes the Deputy set out, there are already clear criteria in the legislation. Under section 23 of the Competition Act the Minister has powers to consider a public interest determination around issues such as diversity of ownership. The list includes the strength and competition of indigenous media, the spread of ownership, ownership concentration among individuals and among corporates, cross-media ownership, the scope for diversity of views, market share and so on. I assure the Deputy strong criteria are in place to deal with a media merger should it come to my attention. There will also be powers to consult more widely than is set out in existing legislation. As Minister, I have the discretion to consult and impose conditions or otherwise.

There is no doubt the new criteria set out by the review group are crisper and include a more structured consultation being required of the Minister. It is my intention to have a proper consultation process in place as I recognise the need for it in such an area. If there are applications for a media merger, there should be a process to allow people express their views.

The powers to deal with this area will be transferred to the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Rabbitte, a decision which had not been made before I assumed my role. We have made that decision and agreed to that transfer. The reason for the delay in drafting the legislation is due to other priority legislative measures which I am introducing in the House. There is a full programme of legislation. For instance, I have introduced legislation to reinforce the joint labour committee system, which was struck down by the High Court, to honour the troika agreement, on microfinance, the transfer of agency workers and the loan guarantee scheme.

The Government approved the heads of the Bill to deal with media mergers which include the recommendations from the advisory group. I am keen to push this ahead and keep this legislation as a single unit. I have spoken to the Attorney General and it will get priority drafting. Best regulatory practice says that one should keep a consolidated approach to legislation and not extract one piece from the rest. Accordingly, I got approval from the Government for such an approach. There is a process in train for the drafting of that legislation. It is my intent to proceed with all possible haste to be in a position to introduce the legislation to the House, have it debated and passed.

Deputy Willie Penrose

Recommendation No. 2 of the Sreenan commission on media mergers stated the Competition Act should be amended to incorporate a statutory definition of the test for the public interest. That would be important in helping the Minister to discharge his or her functions. It recognises by implication the influence media has to play in a democracy where it can have a wide sphere of influence. Will the Minister agree it is important the legislation is published soon in order that everyone, including media companies, can have full clarity of the procedures involved? What would be the relevant criteria, set out in recommendation No. 3, that would underpin the public interest?

I support the criteria set out by the advisory group that it is undesirable to allow any one individual or undertaking to hold significant influence in a sector or across different sectors of media business in the State. Such an approach will necessitate the promotion of plurality in media businesses in the State.

Recently, I read a Sunday Independent article by Darragh McDowell on Gina Rinehart, the richest woman in the world who accumulated her person wealth from mining and who, overnight, increased her stake in the Australian company, Fairfax Media, from 12.5% to 19%. She now demands three seats on the board, the right to hire or fire editors of Fairfax titles while refusing to endorse the group’s principles on editorial independence. This is in Australia and I am aware Ireland is small with a population of 4.5 million people. However, this is what can happen in media ownership. Will the Minister ensure this legislation gets priority in the autumn session and is introduced in one unit? If there is foot dragging or another hiccup with the legislation, will he sever the element that deals with media mergers and introduce it is a self-contained Bill to the House to ensure it is on the Statute Book as soon as possible?

Deputy Richard Bruton

I support the recommendations set out by the advisory group. In the interim, between now and the enactment of new legislation, there are already strong protective provisions in place. I do have the power to block or impose conditions on a media merger on the grounds of it conspiring against diversity, plurality, mixed ownership and so on. I also have the power to consult a broad range of interests on a merger. The new legislation will make such consultation obligatory and will be permanent, more transparent and a better arrangement. There is no intention of foot dragging with the legislation. The approach I am taking is in accordance with a decision by the Government and a commitment in the programme for Government to implement several elements of competition law which will be enshrined in this Bill. I am determined to push ahead as quickly as I can with this legislation and enact it as has been set out. I thank Deputy Penrose for raising this important issue. I am confident the existing system to deal with media mergers is robust but that the new system will be better designed. I am also confident we will proceed to the implementation of this as quickly as possible.

Flood Prevention Measures

Deputy Jerry Buttimer

I welcome the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Hogan, to the House. As he is aware, in the early hours of last Thursday morning the village of Douglas, Cork, was devastated by uncharacteristic flooding. In the area around St. Columba's Terrace and St. Patrick's Terrace, a nice row of houses and a new shopping centre were submerged in water and destroyed.

My main question is about a culvert in Douglas village put in place last summer by Cork County Council at significant cost. Did the culvert work? If it did, why was there flooding? If it did not work, why? Should the culvert's grate be moved? Is there a need for a hydraulic lift to be put in place on the gate? Many questions arise over this culvert as water overflowed from it and caused devastation. This has become a significant issue to residents and local businesspeople in Douglas. I visited residents in St. Columba's Terrace who have lived there all their lives and never experienced such flooding. It is not about the amount of water that fell; it is about the devastation and cause. An explanation needs to be given by Cork County Council as to what happened with this culvert and its operation.

It is equally important the insurance industry works with small enterprises based in the new Douglas shopping centre. They are already paying high rents and are struggling to keep going. Both home owners and business people need answers. I know the Government has not been found wanting so far. However, the long-term issue in this case is the role played by a culvert in the recent flooding in Douglas village.

Deputy Michael McGrath

I thank the office of the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this matter and acknowledge the presence of the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Hogan, in the House. As Deputy Buttimer outlined, people in several parts of Cork woke up last Thursday morning to devastation caused by floods. Flooding occurred in Douglas, Togher, the Kinsale Road, Blackpool, Ballyvolane and Clonakilty in west Cork. The Minister knows the heartbreak it causes for people when their homes are damaged and personal belongings that can never be replaced are lost forever due to flooding. Many businesses, particularly those in the retail trade, were affected by this recent flooding when they are already struggling. Some cannot even get insurance and now face possible closure as a result of these recent events.

The wider community was also affected. For example, Togher community centre was destroyed. A major clean-up is in operation so it can be opened as quickly as possible. Does the Government intend to make any practical assistance available to those affected by last Thursday's floods? When a serious flood event occurred in Dublin last year, a €10 million assistance fund was established for home owners whose properties were affected. Does the Government have plans to bring forward a similar measure in order to assist the people of Cork who were so badly affected by the floods on Thursday morning last?

Deputy Jerry Buttimer referred to the culvert in Douglas which was only completed in the past 12 months. The county councillors who represent the area were informed that it had been designed to withstand a one in 1,000 year event. Such an event has taken place in the first of those 1,000 years. It is clear that the culvert failed the first test mother nature visited upon it and that the people affected must live with the consequences. There are questions which must be answered about the culvert and the value for money aspect.

Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government (Deputy Phil Hogan)

On behalf of the Government, I thank Deputies Jerry Buttimer and Michael McGrath for raising this matter in order that I might address a number of points on the difficulties the people of Cork city and county experienced in the past week as a result of flooding. While, thankfully, no lives were lost, the flooding has impacted on homes and businesses in various areas. I agree that this has been an awful and devastating experience for the people concerned.

Met Éireann issued a severe weather warning at 4.54 p.m. on Wednesday, 27 June in respect of torrential and, possibly, thundery downpours during the period from 11 p.m. on that date to noon on 28 June. As predicted, there was heavy rainfall across the country. This spread from the south west and travelled in a north-easterly direction. A number of localised downpours occurred, particularly in several areas of Cork. Given their nature, it is not possible to predict accurately the exact location, scale or intensity of such downpours. An aggravating factor was the fact that the ground was already saturated as a result of the wettest June on record.

On foot of the weather warning to which I refer, Cork City Council and Cork County Council prepared by deploying outdoor staff to check drainage systems were clear; mobilising engineering staff to monitor rainfall and river levels; contacting the other principal response agencies, namely, An Garda Síochána and the HSE, to prepare for a co-ordinated response; and putting senior management on stand-by for crisis management roles. I listened carefully to what the Deputies said about the culvert in Douglas and intend to have the matter investigated. Information on that investigation will form part of the report I have requested from the city and county councils. Clonakilty, Douglas, Glanmire, Blackpool and Ballyvolane were particularly affected by the flooding. Road access to and from Clonakilty and Douglas was severely impacted upon and a number of roads were impassable. Flooding of ESB sub-stations left approximately 10,000 homes and businesses without power. Rivers burst their banks at Clonakilty and Douglas, causing severe flooding.

As the rainfall worsened Cork County Council's crisis management team activated its flood response plan at 4.10 a.m. on 28 June. Local authority fire services, engineering and outdoor staff were fully deployed to assist those worst affected. Civil Defence and other voluntary services were mobilised to assist and inter-agency co-ordination arrangements were formalised with An Garda Síochána and the HSE. In the light of the deteriorating situation, Cork County Council declared a major emergency at 6 a.m. on 28 June. This joined-up response involved communication and public information; prioritising resources to the worst affected areas; traffic management; rescue and evacuation; and pumping water in order to clear roads and protect infrastructure and property.

The Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government was notified of the situation in Cork shortly after 6 a.m. on Thursday last. As the extent of the impact of the rainfall elsewhere was unknown and because there were reports of significant power outages, it was decided to convene a meeting of the flooding national co-ordination group for 9.30 a.m. The group met again at 2.30 p.m. when it was decided to stand down because there were no major impacts outside Cork and the situation in the county was being effectively managed by Cork County Council and Cork City Council. The Cork major emergency plan was stood down at 6 p.m. on 28 June.

Specific recovery actions undertaken and still, to some extent, under way are working with local communities to clean up areas affected - I express my gratitude to local people in places such as Clonakilty because the clean-up to which I refer would not be possible without them - provision of skips to assist businesses and residents and opening recycling depots free of charge for those affected. In addition, the Department of Social Protection is actively involved, under the supplementary welfare allowance scheme, in assisting those families and individuals affected by the flooding. The scheme in question provides for exceptional needs payments to help meet essential, once-off, exceptional expenditure which people could not be expected to meet from their weekly incomes. Furthermore, there is provision for assistance in the form of urgent needs payments. In certain circumstances, these payments can be made to persons who would not normally be entitled to supplementary welfare allowance.

The Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport is in contact with Cork City Council and Cork County Council in the context of assisting with road restoration, the rebuilding of walls which may have collapsed and the making of repairs to other items of infrastructure damaged by flooding. The Office of Public works is carrying out a catchment flood risk assessment study of the south-west river basin district area which includes County Cork. This will produce a prioritised list of measures to address areas of significant flood risk and assign responsibility for their implementation. The study will also incorporate the recommendations of a pilot study already completed by the OPW on the River Lee catchment.

The Ministers for Finance and Public Expenditure and Reform are considering ways in which we can assist the Red Cross in the provision of humanitarian assistance. They have also asked the financial institutions to help, if at all possible, the small number of businesses which have been affected, particularly those with no insurance. Local authorities' budgeting does not provide for costs they incur when responding to unforeseeable emergencies. The costs incurred by Cork County Council, Cork City Council and Clonakilty Town Council during and following the flooding last week are being assessed. I will be considering the position in this regard with relevant Government colleagues as quickly as possible. When all details and analyses of the flooding event that occurred in Cork last week are to hand in the coming days, a detailed report will be prepared for the Government task force on emergency planning in order that we can make a contribution to improving our resilience to deal with severe weather events of the kind witnessed last week. I will report to the Deputies in due course on the financial assistance which can, notwithstanding the fiscal constraints on the Government, be provided for the local authorities in question.

Acting Chairman (Deputy Olivia Mitchell)

I allowed the Minister to overrun on the time allowed because this is an important issue. As a result, I ask Deputies Jerry Buttimer and Michael McGrath to pose brief supplementary questions.

Deputy Jerry Buttimer

A fundamental question with which I hope the Minister's officials will deal is whether the flood water actually got into the culvert. I have been informed by residents - I have also been shown evidence to this effect - that this did not happen. The position on the community centre in Togher must be examined, particularly in the light of its proximity to the Tramore river. Insurance companies must be called to task and be made to work with and assist residents and business people in the affected areas. In some instances, these companies have been less than co-operative or helpful. As the Minister is aware, a number of them have still not paid out in respect of the damage caused by the flooding which occurred in the Middle Parish area of Cork in 2010.

Deputy Michael McGrath

The Minister referred to the provision of financial assistance for local authorities. Such assistance is important, but what about helping the people who were affected by the floods?

Deputy Phil Hogan

Assistance is being provided for them by the Department of Social Protection via community welfare officers.

Deputy Michael McGrath

The Minister ignored the question I asked with regard to whether a fund would be put in place to provide practical assistance for those affected. It is not sufficient to merely point to the services on offer from community welfare officers and the Department of Social Protection. When a similar flooding incident occurred in Dublin last year, a special humanitarian assistance fund of €10 million was established. What is different about the people of Cork that they do not deserve similar treatment from the Government? It would be very helpful if the Minister could address this point.

I take the opportunity to acknowledge the work of local council staff in Cork who did their very best. However, they were overwhelmed because the damage had already been done.

Deputy Phil Hogan

I am sure Deputy Michael McGrath will agree that I must wait until I receive a full evaluation from the local authorities concerned before deciding on the amount of money that will be needed. I do not want to allocate funds which may not be required. I want to obtain a full report in the first instance. As stated, the Department of Social Protection - through the community welfare officers - is, in an exceptional way, providing assistance. The Red Cross will, I expect, be receiving additional funds from the Ministers for Finance and Public Expenditure and Reform in order that they might provide help on a humanitarian basis. It is not yet possible to quantify the response that will be required from a financial point of view. However, assistance is being provided for those who need it.

We cannot always beat the weather. Nobody ever expects 70 millimetres of water to fall in the course of three hours. However, we must be resilient and ensure we help people to deal with the difficulties. Regardless of whether it is the effectiveness of culverts, matters affecting Togher or issues relating to the insurance industry or those who have no insurance, we will see what we can do to assist.

School Accommodation

Deputy Tom Hayes

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this important matter, relating to a national school in Emly, County Tipperary, which was given a grant of €100,000 for the construction of an additional classroom. The site is classified as a protected structure and, as a result, it must comply with a number of local and national planning regulations before planning permission will be granted. The office of the Minister is aware of the finer details of the case but, for the sake of the House, I will list some of the difficulties that arose when the school submitted its planning application. Some of the restrictions placed on the school mean it must extend the existing roof to mirror the far side of the building, despite the fact this is not structurally necessary. The school has been forced to clad the entire extension in expensive stone and limestone, in keeping with the pre-1960s structure. The school has been forced to install cast-iron rainwater gullies to match those of existing buildings. All of these requirements have affected the cost and size of the proposed extension outside the control of the board of management. That means it has not been possible for the school to deliver the required classroom within the budget allocated by the Department. In one of the most recent items of correspondence from the Department, officials in the planning and building unit are satisfied the grant approved is sufficient to provide the approved level of accommodation. I am curious to see if the estimates include the additional costs associated with the extra planning restrictions.

Under the initial application, it is my understanding that the school changed the scope of the work for which funding had been improved. However, the school and the engineers in question have made a number of compromises in recent months in an attempt to reduce the costs involved. They are still some way from the delivery of the project on budget. I understand funds for projects such as this are limited but I am adamant that Emly national school stands alone in making this case. I understand what the planning authorities are trying to do but more money is needed. Some compromise could be made with the board of management and it is extremely unfair that the Department does not extend a one-off provision in respect of the school.

Minister for Health (Deputy James Reilly)

I am responding on behalf of the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Quinn. I thank the Deputy for raising this matter as it gives me an opportunity to outline to the House the position of the Department of Education and Skills regarding the allocation of funding for Emly national school, County Tipperary. I am also aware that the Deputy has raised this matter with the Minister's advisers on a number of occasions.

In July 2010, following an application by the school authority, Emly national school was approved funding of €100,000 under the additional accommodation scheme to provide an 80 sq. m permanent mainstream classroom to the school. It is a central tenet of the scheme that responsibility for the management of a project, including cost control, rests with the school authority. The conditions of this approved funding were set out to the school in a letter of 6 July 2010, which explained that any works carried out over and above the level of grant aid approved must be borne by the school authority.

In March 2011, the school authority wrote to the Department of Education and Skills requesting additional funding of more than €124,000 in addition to the original funding approved of €100,000. This would bring the costs of building one mainstream classroom to more than €224,000. This is well in excess of the normal basic building costs of €100,000 for a single classroom extension. The school explained that the additional funding was as a result of planning conditions imposed on the building project, including conditions associated with the fact that the school is a listed building and required cladding to the front and side elevation of the extension. A thorough examination of a project with cost increases of this magnitude is essential to the efficient and effective administration of funding under this scheme. Officials in the Department's planning and building unit undertook such an examination and it was discovered that the school had significantly increased the scope of works to that which was originally approved. The scope of works approved had been increased to a classroom of 104 sq. m, instead of 80 sq. m agreed, a disabled toilet, a staffroom and extensive circulation space. An assessment of the case indicated that even with the planning conditions imposed, the likely extension costs including planning requirements, could be achieved within the original grant of €100,000. In July 2011, the school authorities were notified that the application for additional funding was unsuccessful. The school authorities were informed of the reasons for the refusal and that it was open to the school to reduce the scope of works to stay within the grant allocated.

I am sure the Deputy appreciates there are many competing demands on the Department of Education and Skills capital resources and in this context it must prioritise applications for the provision of much needed additional mainstream classroom accommodation. A total of €357 million will be spent under the Department's school building programme this year alone. In the current economic climate, it is essential that costs are kept under control in the construction of school buildings and that those responsible ensure that value for money is achieved for the taxpayer. In this way, we can ensure completion of the maximum number of projects from within the funds available to the Minister for Education and Skills for the school building programme. I thank the Deputy for giving me the opportunity to outline the current position to the House.

Deputy Tom Hayes

I could not wait to get up.

Acting Chairman (Deputy Olivia Mitchell)

I can see the Deputy Hayes could hardly contain himself.

Deputy Tom Hayes

The inaccuracies in that response are a disgrace to any Deputy in this House. It is simply wrong to make that point about the size of the school and the extra accommodation. The Department official who wrote this response should be ashamed of himself or herself. I met officials from the Minister's office and it was agreed with the school to build the school needed under the criteria of the allocation. The problem is the extra features imposed by the council. That is what is costing the money. It is unfair to say the extension is bigger than the normal size. That is not right and I cannot accept it. I defy departmental officials to come to the school in Emly in the coming weeks as a matter of urgency. I do not want to use the word lies but blatant untruths have been told to me in respect of the information available to the Department. I know the Minister is not responsible but I ask him to explain what I have said to the Minister for Education and Skills and to ask the officials to come to Emily to see the difficulties on the ground. The people of this village are being disenfranchised through the total neglect of the school by the Department. It is time the Department copped itself on.

Deputy James Reilly

No one wishes to be the bearer of untruths, mistruths or whatever term Deputy Hayes wishes to use. If this is not accurate, someone will be held responsible. For clarity's sake, let us make sure we are comparing apples with apples, not apples with oranges. I said the classroom was 104 sq. m instead of 80 sq. m.

Deputy Tom Hayes

That is wrong.

Deputy James Reilly

I said there was a disabled toilet, a staffroom and extensive circulation space. If this information is inaccurate, the record of the Dáil will have to be corrected by the relevant Minister and I will certainly bring the matter to his notice.

Accident and Emergency Services

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

Some 16 months ago the Minister gave a commitment that he would do his best to defend hospital services in Navan. At the invitation of the Save Navan Hospital campaign, he addressed the 10,000 strong crowd who attended the public rally and said there would be no further cuts that would put people's health and lives in danger. Fine Gael candidates in the constituency stood on the election promise that they would ensure a new regional hospital would be built in County Meath within the lifetime of this Dáil.

The Minister is aware of the trolley count in Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital in Drogheda. It is disastrous, one of the highest in the State. Work has been carried out under his direction to ameliorate the problem to a certain extent. We appreciate this, but the figures are still stubbornly high. In the first six months of 2010, 1,664 patients were forced to wait on trolleys. In the first six months of 2011, 3,266 were forced to wait on trolleys. The INMO has stated that from January to April this year 2,422 patients were treated on trolleys in Drogheda. On each of these occasions little is offered to the patient in terms of privacy and dignity and the treatment provided is seriously sub-optimal. I am not trying to draw a direct comparison with the shocking situation in Tallaght, but this makes people cautious about allowing trolley counts to remain so high.

I bring to the attention of the House what happened in Cavan when the accident and emergency department in Monaghan was closed. The trolley count rose from 746 in the first six months of 2009 to 1,443 in 2010 and 2,745 in the six months of 2011. The increase was due to the closure of the accident and emergency department in Monaghan. In the last few weeks a document was leaked from the HSE which, in fairness to it, indicated that it reflected its current objectives. It does not hide behind the rhetoric of the previous Government in any way. The document is entitled, The Louth and Meath Hospital Group Cost Containment Draft Project Plan, and details the closure of the accident and emergency department in Navan, the reduction of three locum consultant positions, the extended closure of orthopaedic services and the reduction of surgical in-patient activity. These closures will occur despite shockingly high orthopaedic and surgical waiting times. The savings that will be achieved in the part-closure of the accident and emergency department in Navan will total €800,000, but this figure does not take into consideration the cost of treating patients in other accident and emergency departments or the cost of transport.

I appreciate that the Minister has taken a different attitude towards the health service in the Louth-Meath area and the change of direction since the term of office of the last Minister. I also recognise the work done by Fine Gael and Labour Party Deputies in County Meath in partnership with the hospital campaign in the last year. I respect that work, but crunch time is coming for the hospital. It is now or never; we must live up to the promises made and translate them into action. Will the Minister commit to maintaining services at the accident and emergency department in Navan hospital?

Deputy James Reilly

I remember the meetings to which the Deputy refers. I certainly know that at no time did I promise to keep the accident and emergency department in Navan open indefinitely. I have made it clear, however, since becoming Minister for Health, that with accident and emergency departments in Cavan, Navan and Blanchardstown, all on the M3, and another in Drogheda, in the longer term the position at the accident and emergency department in Navan must be reviewed. As the Deputy rightly points out, in the current situation where there is such a capacity issue, there is no question of a reduction in the service provided in the accident and emergency department in Navan hospital.

I acknowledge the hard work and dedication of the accident and emergency services at Our Lady's Hospital, Navan. Staff ensure patients are treated in a dignified and respectful manner, even when they might have to wait for treatment or admission.

The Government is committed to securing and developing smaller hospitals to provide more services, not fewer. However, these services, including emergency care, must be right and safely delivered. HIQA has pointed to the type of patient who can be safely treated in different hospitals, depending, in particular, on the volumes of patients seen with each condition. Smaller hospitals treat only small numbers of patients with complex or acutely life-threatening conditions in scheduled and emergency care. This means clinical staff do not treat certain conditions frequently enough to ensure their skill levels. These patients may also require specialised resources, including advanced life-support machines and complex surgical facilities which it is not feasible to provide in many small hospitals. Accordingly, for certain conditions, small hospitals cannot ensure the best care and patients need to be directed to the care pathway appropriate to their needs.

The HSE clinical programmes delineate acute hospital services, based on the safe provision of patient care for given facilities, staff resources and local factors. Under this framework, the future growth in health care for local populations is firmly in local hospitals for ambulatory care, diagnostics and rehabilitation and with close links with primary health care. Suitable services for expansion in smaller hospitals include minor injury units and urgent care centres; day surgery, including cataracts, hernia and other surgery safe for day provision; ambulatory care, including chronic disease management and assessment for older persons; medical services, including cardiac failure clinics, cardiac rehabilitation and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease outreach clinics; rheumatology, dermatology, diabetic day centres and rehabilitation; and diagnostics, including blood tests, X-rays, endoscopy and bronchoscopy.

The HSE is reviewing all services against its cost containment plans and a number of proposals are being considered for Navan. The HSE is focusing on improving accident and emergency department and related services at Drogheda. The HSE has been engaging with Navan Hospital Alliance and will continue to do so. Under the public service agreement, there will also be engagement with staff and staff representatives. However, the HSE has informed my Department that there will be no significant service changes in Navan or Dundalk pending the outcome of the discussions. We must ensure hospitals deliver on the SDU's access requirements, within Government budgets and HIQA's safety and quality requirements. The best way forward for smaller hospitals is to operate initially within hospital groups and ultimately within the proposed independent hospital trusts. Consultations on these groups will commence this week with hospitals and other key stakeholders.

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

Central to the reconfiguration process that was signed up to by health professionals in the north east was the building of a new regional hospital, but this has not materialised. I hear much good medical advice to say there must be a certain through-put for procedures to be clinically safe, but I cannot find any medical professional who will say reducing services in existing hospitals whereby patients will not receive a service because of waiting lists or be seen promptly and will have to spend a long time on a trolley is sufficient. We are told we will create a new medical order whereby there will be an increase in medical procedure numbers leading to better outcomes, but the elephant in the room is that individuals are not given the option to avail of improved clinical procedures, rather they face longer waiting lists and longer waiting times on trolleys. The Minister mentioned there would be no significant reduction in services.

Does that mean there will be overnight or part closure of the emergency department until the necessary capacity exists? Those of us involved in the hospital campaign are strongly of the view that we will fight for the emergency department until such time as there is a new regional hospital. We look forward to working in partnership with the Minister in the future. We might not agree on everything but there is no doubt we hope to work in partnership with the Minister in the next year or so to achieve some of our shared objectives.

At a meeting of the hospital campaign last Wednesday many individuals there related their personal experience of arriving in the accident and emergency unit in Navan and their lives being saved or at the very least their health being repaired by the existence of the unit. The hundreds and thousands of personal stories must be remembered on these occasions. As a result of the personal experiences that were related, it was stated at the meeting that people would do their utmost, including mobilisation if necessary, but we hope that time will not come and that we can work in partnership with the Minister.

Deputy James Reilly

I hope the Acting Chairman will allow me some latitude. I wish to put on record and to say to those watching the debate on the Internet or who will see it later that the trolley count for the first five and half months of this year is 20% lower than for the same period in the previous year. That is despite taking €1.75 billion out of the health budget, 6,000 staff leaving the service since last year and 4,500 staff being redeployed. It is also despite a 6% increase in admissions through emergency departments and a 7% increase in admissions overall.

There was no commitment by me, when I was spokesperson, to a new hospital in the north east. Approximately 48,500 people were on trolleys for the first five and a half months of last year. The figure has fallen to 38,000 this year. I accept that there are still too many people on trolleys. We continue to work hard to move to a nine hour period from admission to a unit to either discharge or admission to a ward. We are also working towards a maximum waiting time for treatment of nine months. I am sure Deputy Tóibín agrees that the person who is waiting the longest should be treated first once urgent cases and those with cancer have been looked after. When we came into power, more than 3,800 patients has been waiting more than a year for treatment. When I last checked there were approximately 102. I might be slightly incorrect in the figures but it is no more than approximately 125. We did not get all the way there but we got a long way along the road. We will continue to do that.

We listened to what people had to say on Drogheda hospital. We increased the number of medical beds, community intervention teams, home care packages, long-term care and intermediate care and we promised to carry out a capacity study. The study revealed there was a capacity issue. We put in additional medical beds to get on top of the situation. There have been improvements but I accept they are not enough. I make it clear there will be changes to the emergency department in Navan hospital, but they will not happen immediately because the capacity is not there to maintain a safe service. I always said I would put patient safety first, be honest with people and say whether a service was being closed because of money or due to safety.