I call Deputy Seán Crowe. The Deputy has five minutes.
Education (Amendment) (Protection of Schools) Bill 2012: Second Stage (Resumed) [Private Members]
Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."
Deputy Doherty and I are sharing our time, so I will be taking somewhat more than five minutes.
That is fine. The Deputies will have ten minutes between them.
In last year's general election people voted for change. However, rural communities have endured cuts that threaten their way of life and long-term viability. The staffing schedules for small schools that were announced in December's budget are an example in this regard and there are understandable fears that changes in respect of schools with four or fewer teachers will force some of them to amalgamate or even close. The threat to small schools comes at a time when community centres, sports clubs, GAA halls, small post offices, local shops, Garda stations and rural pubs have been forced to close. Combined with the forced emigration of thousands of young people, it is clear that essential aspects of rural life are being lost, possibly for ever.
In the midst of the current financial crisis, small rural schools - in the context of their serving as places of learning which protect the social cohesion of the communities they serve - are more important than ever. A one-size-fits-all strategy is insufficient to meet the needs of Irish children. Our education system must be sensitive enough to meet the diverse demands of the country and its rural inhabitants.
When the grand secretary of the Orange Order, Mr. Drew Nelson, delivered an historic address to the Seanad, he made a number of points with which I would disagree. However, I concur with him in respect of one matter, namely, that one of the greatest challenges faced by Protestant communities is the threat to minority faith-based schools. This threat is illustrated by the fact that only 12 of the 26 counties have Protestant secondary schools of any description and that there are only six non-fee-paying Protestant second level schools, three of which are located in Dublin and Wicklow. Five out of every eight schools in the diocese of Ferns are said to be under threat. Recently, a Church of Ireland school in Killegney, which is near Enniscorthy, was closed after 107 years in operation. Only two years ago, €250,000 was invested in transforming the latter into a state-of-the-art facility.
The Protestant community in this State is widely dispersed. As a direct result, children are obliged to travel many miles in order to attend their nearest faith-based schools. Closing minority schools will only make matters worse and parents will be prevented from sending their children to a school of their choice which reflects their own religious ethos as a result of the long distances involved. If we are really serious about contributing to a pluralist, multicultural society, then it is vital proper protection and supports are put in place to ensure the future viability of schools serving minority denominations.
Equally, the unique challenges faced by gaelscoileanna mean that they must also be treated sensitively in order to secure the future of an teanga Gaeilge as a vibrant, working language. Changes to pupil-teacher ratios and staffing schedules have had a profound impact on Gaeltacht schools. This, in turn, threatens to undermine the 20-year strategy for the Irish language. There is mounting concern that many gaelscoileanna, which have been hit hard with changes to their staffing schedules and the ending of preferential pupil-teacher ratios, may be forced to close. This will undermine the development of the Irish language and will ensure that much of the progress that has been made will be lost for ever. To compound matters further, the geographic information system, GIS, to which the Minister of State referred last evening and which the Department uses to calculate school numbers is flawed when it comes to tracking children who are attending or who want to attend gaelscoileanna. Funding for trainee teachers who wish to attend Irish language courses in the Gaeltacht has also been hit and it is clear that plans to establish an Irish training college are in the doldrums.
We need an education system that safeguards, develops and nurtures not only our native language but also - in a proactive manner - the diversity and educational aspirations of parents and their children. Clearly, then, any evaluation of the viability of schools cannot be based on cost alone. Other criteria such as the quality of the educational experience, ensuring stable enrolment trends, the financial position of schools, availability of transport links, physical accessibility, geographic location, language considerations, patronage and the maintenance of strong ties with the community must also be considered. I welcome the positive work that is to be carried out by the advisory group to the forum on patronage and pluralism, which has been tasked with divesting patronage throughout the State. The making or breaking of this endeavour will rest on the availability and provision of sufficient resources.
I also welcome the work being done by the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Quinn, and his Northern counterpart, Mr. John O'Dowd, MLA, in developing cross-Border co-operation in an effort to meet the real challenges of people who live in the Border region. The survey that is due to be carried out later in the year - part of which encompasses the possibility of encouraging parents to send their children to the schools nearest to their places of residence along the Border - is to be welcomed. Some people have already expressed concern at this development but I do not foresee this initiative posing any threat to small or medium-sized schools or local communities. With rural communities facing the threat of cuts which may force the closure or amalgamation of many small schools, a number of options must be considered. The type of cross-Border co-operation to which I refer may help to secure the future of minority faith-based communities in the Border region. Those who live in these communities must be given the option of sending their children to a school of their religious denomination.
I thank Deputy Luke ‘Ming' Flanagan for introducing this important Bill.
This is not the first occasion in the past 12 months that I have been obliged to make a plea to the Government to reverse its decision in respect of attacking small rural schools. I use the word "attacking" in a very conscious fashion. In December's budget, the Government actually increased the pupil-teacher ratio for schools with fewer than four teachers. Prior to that, the State had recognised that rural schools and gaelscoileanna required preferential pupil-teacher ratios. It also recognised those of minority faiths - Protestants and Presbyterians - who come from areas that are particularly rural and not densely populated. As a result, the schools they attend are small.
In an attempt to save money - some €1.5 million this year and €15 million in a full year - the Government threw out the three principles on which education in this State, in the context of the pupil-teacher ratio, was based. As a result, some of those who were previously employed in small rural schools have been informed that they cannot return to them in September. The Minister for Education and Skills continues to issue figures in respect of the number of schools and teachers that will be affected in this regard. Some 36 teachers from Irish Catholic schools in County Donegal were placed on the panel for the county. These individuals have been told, at the very least, that they can no longer teach at the schools in which they were previously employed and that they will be obliged to seek employment in other schools come September. This means that in 36 schools in my county, children will be taught in either larger or multi-grade classes.
It is completely wrong for the Government to try to balance the books by attacking children. We will not see the effects of what it is doing in September or, indeed, next year or the year after. Those effects will only become apparent in the long term. The decisions the Government took last December, and over which the Minister of State is probably going to stand tonight, will have massive and long-term consequences for the education of children who are dependent on the schools to which I refer.
Let us consider the way the Government has attacked Gaeltacht schools. Previously, the number of children required for a four-teacher school was 76. That will increase to 86 by 2014. Schools that want to retain four teachers must find ten additional pupils. Let us take the English language school by comparison. It must increase by only five pupils. The Government got rid of the preferential status of Gaeltacht schools and the unique identity this State gave to Gaeltacht schools by recognising the need for additional pupil teacher ratios in smaller schools because of the difficulties teachers have in passing on our language to children. This is a retrograde step and I ask the Government to pull back from the brink and look at matters in a different way. Let us not consider this as a question of how to save pennies. Let us consider how we can provide the best type of education to children for the future. If we want to build a knowledge-based economy, our children and our children's children will get the State back up off its knees. Some of them do not have the luxury of speech but all they ask for is an even break. I ask the Minister to give children an even break and to reverse the decision made in December. The Minister should agree to the principles contained in this Bill and put children first in terms of education.
I propose to share time with Deputies John Paul Phelan, Michael McNamara, Derek Keating, Michelle Mulherin and Jerry Buttimer. I appreciate the opportunity to speak on this topic and I commend Deputy Luke ‘Ming' Flanagan for showing a great interest in the area. The future of small rural primary schools is an issue I feel strongly about. I come from,and live in, a small rural community on the Dingle Peninsula in County Kerry. As a child, I attended a small rural school where I got a great start in life. I have also spent some time teaching in small rural schools. Therefore, this topic is close to my heart.
Following last December's budgetary changes to pupil thresholds for small schools, the issue of the future of primary education in rural areas has been the focus of considerable discussion. There have been many differing views and solutions from within my own party, across all sides of this Chamber and from beyond the House. Deputy Luke ‘Ming' Flanagan's Bill expresses his views and solutions to the matter.
While I welcome the sentiment and good intentions of the Bill, section 2 is unnecessary, given that Ireland ratified the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child without reservation in 1992. There will be a constitutional referendum on children's rights later in the year. Section 3 seems a regressive step, as we need to be reasonable when discussing pupil-teacher ratios in small schools. Sections 5 and 6 are unrealistic and an affront to the one-teacher schools operating well throughout Ireland. For these reasons, I will not support the Bill.
However, I welcome all constructive contributions to the discussion because it is through constructive discussion that we can put in place a comprehensive, long-term solution to the challenges facing the future of primary education in rural areas. The solution has the benefit of the child at its heart. I have worked very hard over the past six months from within Government circles to achieve alterations to the recent changes to number thresholds. When I contributed to the debate on this subject in the Chamber in February, I called for the introduction of a streamlined appeals mechanism, which would allow schools an opportunity to counteract the retrospective aspect of the threshold changes, based on future projections. Thankfully, in co-operation with other Fine Gael and Labour Oireachtas Members, we were instrumental in securing that appeals process, which resulted in 41 of the 73 schools, initially threatened with the loss of a teacher, being able to keep all their teachers.
Unfortunately, of the 3,100 primary schools nationwide, 32 schools were not successful in holding on to all of their teachers for next year because of the budgetary changes for small schools. Two of these schools, Fybough national school and Filemore national school, are in County Kerry. While we have found a solution to the situation at Fybough, I am still working hard on finding a resolution to the situation at Filemore, which remains the only school in Kerry due to lose a teacher in September under the budget changes. In Kerry, the appeals process saved teaching posts at schools in Lispole, Ballylongford, Kilcummin, Curranes and Tralee.
In February, I called for recognition of geographic isolation to be factored into the appeals process. I gave the example at the time of Cloghane national school, which is a three-teacher Gaeltacht school, 12 km from its nearest school, which is a non-Gaeltacht school, and 20 km from its nearest Gaeltacht school in Dingle via the Conor Pass, which cannot be travelled by bus. In cases such as this, I call for reasonable exceptions to be made through the appeals process.
I also requested that four-teacher Gaeltacht schools retain a threshold advantage of five over non-Gaeltacht four-teacher schools. I continue to pursue these requests and I am fully dedicated to delivering further tangible improvements from within Government circles. In the past two weeks, the internal Fine Gael education committee has met on two occasions to discuss such matters affecting small rural schools and will meet again tomorrow.
We need to bring some balance to the policy approach to small schools. On one side of the argument, it is unsustainable to have two teachers provided for a school of only 12 children, where geographic isolation is not a significant factor. On the other hand, it is unsustainable in the long run to have only two teachers provided for a school of 55 children, which would be the case if the threshold changes were fully implemented.
In conclusion, I sincerely request that all Oireachtas Members be given the opportunity to propose, and have considered, alternative budgetary adjustments in the primary education sector to allow thresholds to remain at the 2012-13 academic year qualifying levels, which are 14, 51 and 83. By working together, in a non-confrontational and constructive way, we could find these alternative savings. I appeal to all Members of both Houses of the Oireachtas, the teaching community, officials of the Department, unions, parents and others with an interest in our children's future to come together with constructive and realistic proposals to help resolve this issue.
I am glad to have the opportunity to speak on small rural schools, having been a student in one. I later served on the board of management of what was a four-teacher school. It became a three-teacher school but it now has a fourth teacher. Hopefully, in the next few years, Listerlin national school, County Kilkenny, will be in the reckoning for a fifth teacher.
I want to make the case for a number of schools in the appeals system. Their staffing levels in September have not yet been finalised. I echo the comments of the previous speaker, Deputy Brendan Griffin, on flexibility, particularly in the case of schools where it is clear that numbers have dipped for a short period but will rise sufficiently in the very near future. Deputy Griffin referred to the new thresholds with regard to the number of pupils required for a school to retain a second teacher if the Minister continues to introduce changes over the coming years. In areas of isolation and in communities, the school is at the heart of the rural community. A strong case can be made for flexibility in regard to how the pupil-teacher ratios are implemented. Equally, following the last budgetary announcement, we cannot have schools with declining numbers remaining open indefinitely except in the case of severe geographic isolation. There cannot be blank cheques for schools when parents are making the decision to send their children to schools other than the one that traditionally served the area. A school with declining numbers cannot retain its teachers indefinitely but there should be a degree of flexibility in respect of geographic factors and where schools can show that enrolment has temporarily dipped and will rise again in the near future, those staffing positions should be maintained. As someone from a very rural part of Kilkenny, I know the significant role rural schools play at the heart of those communities. I want to see a situation where rural schools continue to play that significant role.
I wish to oppose this Private Members' Bill, although I commend the Deputy on introducing a Bill rather than tabling just another motion on which we could play Punch and Judy for an hour. I wonder, however, if the intention of this is to add to the Statute Book or to resurrect a motion that was debated by the House in February. I will, however, take it as legislation.
I wish to outline my disappointment with the level of hyperbole that has surrounded the small schools issue. After the INTO conference in Kerry, the union claimed to Clare FM, a very reputable local radio station that devotes considerable time to news and current affairs, that under the budgetary plans, a fifth of Clare schools would lose a teacher from September, while local teaching representatives claimed the measures would destabilise a further 60 schools in Clare. That would be a fifth of 122 national schools in the county. According to the INTO, 24 teaching posts would be lost.
In reality, the numbers for the entire State were that 73 small schools would lose a teacher in September. Of those 73 schools, 62 appealed the decision. A primary staffing appeals board was set up and there was much cynicism that the board would be a rubber stamp as previous boards of that nature had been. Nevertheless, of the 62 appeals, 41 were successful. In September, a total of 32 small schools out of 3,100 primary schools State-wide are due to lose a teaching post. That is regrettable to me, as it is to every Deputy, but it is nowhere the number predicted by the INTO, which predicted 22 posts to be lost in Clare alone, when there were 32 lost in total. There is one school in Clare that will lose a post, and another might lose a post depending on the numbers that enrol in September as opposed to the forecast enrolment.
I oppose two sections of the Bill in particular. Section 4 proposes an amendment to section 12 of the 1998 Act, that the Minister shall not, where a school meets the requirements for recognition under this Act and could otherwise continue operating, cause a school to cease functioning as a school by reducing its funding. Every national school in Ireland, regardless of size, receives a capitation grant in respect of 20 pupils, even if the enrolment is four pupils or eight pupils. If enrolment is 59 pupils, it receives a capitation grant for 60 pupils.
In The Irish Times in November, there was a report of a tiny valley school, much like some of the schools this Bill aims to protect, on the main Cork to Killarney road that had received no pupils in September and was finally closed yesterday, allowing its principal to be transferred. There were no pupils in the school. Of course it is possible to pay a capitation grant in respect of 60 pupils for a school with no pupils, pay a caretaker and insurance, lighting and heating, but these are difficult times. Even after the bank deal, which has been welcomed by both Sinn Féin and Fianna Fáil, our deficit remains at about €14 billion; savings must be made. Of course we would wish savings would not have to be made in respect of education, but it does not make sense to keep open, heated and staffed a school with no pupils when those funds could be used elsewhere in the education system.
There is a proposal that no teacher would teach more than four curriculum grades. That means a brother and sister attending the same school might require two teachers. If there were only two pupils in the school with perhaps five years between them, under this proposal, two teachers would be required to teach them. The State does not have the funds to do that at this time.
I thank Deputy Flanagan for introducing this Bill. It is important we discuss education. I had the privilege and pleasure of spending 16 years in a classroom, teaching both adults and young people, so I understand the importance of education. It is a right, not a privilege, and an entitlement of all our citizens, urban and rural.
Education is not just about the fabric of a classroom or the built environment, nor is it about the number of teachers in the staffroom or number of pupils in the classroom. It is about the whole school community, from the parent at home to the educational welfare officer, the teacher, the student, the Government and us as legislators. Education is about imparting knowledge, the accumulation of skills, learning new social skills and interacting with young people. It is also about adults imparting values and instilling responsibility. In the Visitors Gallery are young people on their summer holidays. Alas, the weather is not very good but I ask those young people to focus on the meaning of education. What do we as legislators have to do?
We must remember, no matter what our political persuasion or whether we are urban or rural, that this debate is about the type of education model we want to see at primary and post-primary. Those of us who attended the CSO presentation learned that we as a country do not stand still. We evolve and change, and the needs of our education system have changed accordingly. We must always appraise to ensure we have a system that is fit for purpose and that has structures and procedures that will meet the future needs of our students.
That is why reform is necessary. It is why this Government is changing the political landscape in education and challenging people by forcing them to recognise there is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and that the pupil-teacher ratio will not change, although we would like it to. That reality must be faced up to by everyone. Some refuse to accept it but if we have the interests of children, of curriculum reform and the imparting of knowledge at heart, then Bills like this one serve no purpose other than to rally the troops, create political noise and look and sound good.
It also challenges the vested interests, the Minister and Deputies in this House. What education model do we want to impart to the young people in the Visitors Gallery? Is it all about funding and keeping schools open? Are we so blind as to look at that as the only thing we want to do, to keep school X and close school Y? It is not. We must always strive to improve our education system, especially when we do not have the resources that were available ten to 14 years ago.
I saw the money that was put into education. I was a classroom teacher and I trained teams and supervised classes. I did not do it for remuneration but because I loved the games I was coaching and I wanted to educate myself about the needs and aspirations of the students I was teaching.
Benchmarking was the biggest mistake we made as a country. I will conclude on this point; if the motion is just about rural schools then it is wrong because falling numbers affect cities. The census for Cork city has shown a fall in the population in successive years. Cork city has the oldest mean age in the country and the consequence of that is being experienced by city schools in terms of the numbers enrolling. That issue must be addressed as well. The motion must be about the education system, not just the small, narrow prism of school buildings.
I put on record my support for small rural schools. As a rural Deputy, like most of my colleagues I understand the importance of rural schools as well as other facilities such as post offices and churches. Schools are an important part of the fabric of rural areas. The parish structure is important and must be maintained in the future.
I welcome the debate because, as my colleague, Deputy Buttimer, indicated, there must be a full examination of the education system. Some schools are not sustainable and there must be a rebalancing of the system. In my local school in Carlow my son is in a class of 27 children. That is not fair as he will not get the same quality of education as someone in a small rural school with a class of six or seven. The system must be reassessed and rebalanced in order to ensure equality. The discussion must be focused and rather than engaging in cheap point-scoring everyone must feed into the debate to ensure it is balanced.
I wish to refer to the amount of scaremongering that has been going on about small rural schools. Deputy ‘Ming' Flanagan is to be commended on bringing the Bill to the House but he and others have travelled around the country creating hysteria about the total closure of small schools in rural areas and the closing down of rural Ireland. Strong and emotive language has been used in the process. They have created a problem by using schoolchildren to fuel the emotion. It is wrong to use schoolchildren to write postcards to their local representatives saying "Please TD don't close my school. Please TD, I want to go to the same school as my mammy and daddy did in the past. Please TD, leave the door of my school open." It is wrong to use children to do that. I see nothing wrong with parents, parents' councils or representative bodies lobbying strongly in order to maintain a school. It is important that they would do so but it is not right for teachers to get children to make postcards. Whoever organised the campaign should put their time to better use in order to achieve their end.
In my constituency because a meeting was held in the area a local small school believed that it was under threat but although that was not the case a campaign was organised. The school has two teachers and 52 pupils and was in no danger whatsoever. However, the expectation was created that the door of the school would close next September. This situation, which has been developing over a period, must be addressed.
We heard much talk earlier in the year about the total destruction of rural Ireland and the closure of schools all over the place. That has not happened. As a result of the appeals process there will not be a total closure of rural Ireland. Unfortunately, some teachers will be lost to schools but only 32 schools will be affected. Only 1% of the 3,100 schools in the country will lose a teacher in the coming year. The appeal process is not complete. I echo other speakers in encouraging the Department to be flexible with the appeal process. Come next October when it will be looked at again I encourage the Department to be flexible.
The issue has not arisen in the past six months. In the Celtic tiger years we saw welcome investment in schools in all constituencies. Between 2000 and 2011 a total of 52 schools around the country closed. That was when we were supposed to have plenty of money to keep them open. School closures are not a new phenomenon. I welcome the debate. I accept there are issues of concern but we must have a constructive debate.
I agree that there has been much scaremongering about rural Ireland. That includes dramatic claims that the change in the pupil-teacher ratio for small schools is based on a wish to shut them down and, further - even more extravagantly - that it is an attempt at social engineering on the part of the Minister. With all the furore that has taken place in the past year one might be forgiven for thinking the future of small schools is only now being challenged. It is not the case that this is a recent phenomenon. From 1962 to 1979 the number of one and two-teacher schools declined by 2,000 from 3,194 to 1,168. As Deputy Deering indicated, in the past 11 years 52 schools closed because they could not meet the minimum enrolment requirement of eight pupils.
One could ask what is happening in rural Ireland. In recent years many rural areas have seen more investment in amenities and services than they did for many decades previously. I refer to the rural development programme – Leader, the local community development programme operated by Pobal and the local partnership companies. That is not to mention county councils that are involved in enhancing rural areas. One could also say that many small schools have never had as many good facilities. Notwithstanding that, pupil numbers are declining and that is the difficulty that arises. That is the cause of the decline of rural Ireland. Many people are migrating to urban centres from rural areas for work. Farming is on an upward trajectory and we are pursuing the green economy, seeking investment in renewable energy and also tourism but it is a fact of life that the population decline in rural areas will continue.
Much of the argument on small schools suggests that they are being discriminated against but that completely ignores the pressures on larger schools that cater for larger classes and invariably a greater diversity of social background and needs. Therefore, the suggestion that larger schools are more favoured is simply not true. I have both types of schools in the rural constituency I come from and the truth is that each type has pressures and challenges.
Politicians who feed fear among citizens and make arguments on a basis that totally ignores the financial reality of where the country is at are fooling people.
Hear, hear.
That is a bit rich.
The debate should be about how we give the best education to our children-----
It is protecting the rich.
-----with the budget we have. That should be the focus of the debate and not about pie-in-sky aspirations that are purely populist.
Hear, hear.
I know from correspondence and conversation with the Minister that he is seeking to reshape the discussion and move towards a conversation that allows for all communities to plan for their own sustainability from an educational perspective. I agree with his view but at this stage to make dialogue a reality and to provide for the educational needs of children attending small schools I would go further than he has gone. Last February or March when we had a debate during Private Members' business my position on that occasion was to challenge patrons and boards of management of small schools to encourage parishes and communities to come together to discuss how best to provide for the educational needs of children in the area in the future. It should not merely be a question of providing school buildings and so on. A more proactive, less laissez-faire approach is necessary. The schools that want to amalgamate have nowhere to go. The Department tells them that it is not its business and the patrons claim the same. In my area there are several small schools within a few miles of one another. If the best educational outcome for children is to be achieved, which is key, the ideal is for these schools to amalgamate. Instead, there are turf wars about which schools children should attend and the kids are losing out. The Department should intervene when the number of teachers in a school drops to one. It should take responsibility for recommending amalgamations, not boards of management which are not in a position to dictate to neighbouring schools. An inspector should visit an area to discuss transitional arrangements for transport.
A reality check is necessary, in that there cannot be small schools everywhere and I am not referring to schools on islands. As a politician from a rural area, discussing amalgamations is not the most popular choice. However, where children's education is a priority, someone must show leadership. The Minister for Education and Skills can do so. People in rural schools are crying out for it. Will he engage with them and show leadership?
I understand Deputy Finian McGrath is sharing time with Deputies Catherine Murphy, Richard Boyd Barrett, Clare Daly, Shane Ross and John Halligan. Is that agreed? Agreed.
I thank the Acting Chairman for giving me the opportunity to contribute on this radical and progressive legislation. I warmly welcome and support the Bill. I commend my Independent colleagues, Deputy Luke ‘Ming' Flanagan, among others, for introducing this legislation, as it gives us a chance to show clearly where we stand on the issue of small schools, their survival and contribution to their local communities and, above all, education. Government Deputies have neglected the question of education in their contributions, yet this is a debate on the education of children and the future of the education system.
The Bill gives us a chance to show how pluralist we are in terms of the protection of minority religious schools, which is an important aspect. My position is clear, in that I promote small schools which are good for education, children and their local communities. I worked in a small school for more than 25 years, by which I mean 107 pupils, give or take a few pupils each year. We constantly worried about losing a teacher because of a difference of two or three pupils. Larger national schools of 300, 400 or even 700 pupils could be found a few miles down the road. Every year in our school there was a crisis. Sometimes we found pupils at the last minute, sometimes we were down three or four. This is many small schools' nightmare and the issue is addressed in the Bill.
I will always remember the usually positive aspects of our small school. It was a close and intimate environment, in that I knew every child's parents, brothers and sisters. It was a disadvantaged school on the north side of Dublin and experienced many issues. If a serious issue arose, be it a child at risk or an educational problem, our staff would pick up on it quickly and work closely with the parents to take action. That is what happens in small schools. Ministers should listen to people in their communities.
Those of us who have been pressing the issue and protecting small schools have been accused of hysteria by some Government backbenchers. What utter rubbish. It is obvious from the debate that they have not even read the legislation and do not care about education. They should consider the facts. The comments about scaremongering were disgraceful. We are fighting for the education of children and the retention of small schools. Damn the rest of you. Examine the legislation, the purpose of which is to make specific provision in law for the protection of schools that, by virtue of providing education for a geographical, cultural, religious or non-denominational community, a recognised Gaeltacht area or on an offshore island, are of such importance that their closure would have a harmful impact on their communities or areas. What is wrong with this Bill? The legislation's aims are sensible, as they are only concerned with education. There is no scaremongering.
Some Deputies have a brass neck when discussing education, given the fact that 340 teenagers with intellectual disabilities will have no places next September. They will be thrown out onto the streets in the next couple of weeks, yet there has not been a squeak from the Government.
I urge Members to support the Bill. It is progressive legislation, opens up the debate and shows the way forward, as it suggests common, simple solutions to the issue of small schools. I will support the Bill and urge every Government Deputy to support the Independents and the Technical Group.
Well said.
I thank Deputy Luke ‘Ming' Flanagan for drafting this legislation which took considerable time and was done in conjunction with many of those who are outside the gates of Leinster House tonight and with the assistance of his staff. The Deputy's abilities might have been exaggerated by a previous contributor who stated he had actively promoted a postcard campaign. I am sure he would be delighted to take the plaudits for that campaign, but I doubt he could have stretched his time to do that work also.
Every Deputy understands that, regardless of whether a school is in an urban or rural area, it will be a focal point, particularly in the absence of other facilities. I have never lived in a rural area, as the bulk of my constituency would be described as urban. Since most of its schools are multi-teacher schools, few will be affected by the changes. For those that will, the changes matter. Even in a county such as Kildare which has experienced rapid population growth for several decades, there are areas with small schools.
For some years I have been critical of the approach taken to the provision of staffing and resources in schools. It is the historical approach, that is, we wait until September to determine the next year's resources. In areas that experience rapid population growth one is always playing catch-up. They tend to be described as commuter belt areas rather than older city areas. In my area the typical class size is 35 pupils, a high number.
Rural schools are the other side of the same coin in this argument. We are failing to examine the demographics across a few years. Instead, we are examining the figures for individual years.
In doing so we are likely to close some small schools only to discover within a few years that they were needed. We all know that if schools are closed, they stay closed. There should not just be an annual assessment but an examination over two or three years in order that schools that are required do not run the risk of being closed.
It may be possible to predict the cost of transporting some children to school, particularly with the use of means testing. A Topical Issue debate today had several Deputies talking about the kinds of problems arising where there are concessionary places on school buses, the cost of the transport for parents and the money this takes from the local economy. That is not even mentioning the potential problem of putting a very young child - perhaps four years old - on a bus with children who would otherwise be going to a local school. These issues must be factored in.
Education must be the primary focus in designing the education system but we should consider the effect of moving very young children great distances, with some having to wait an extra hour to be transported home. Additionally, parents may have to collect children from a primary or secondary school over great distances, even as they try to hold down a job and provide for the family. Issues other than the closure of schools must be considered.
When this Government took office a four teacher school required 81 pupils. From September 2011, the school required 83 pupils and in 2014 the figure will be 86 pupils. One year the number is 85 and the next it could be 87. This process is much too narrow in its focus and it does not appear to be planned in a sensible way over a realistic period. For that reason I am supporting the legislation.
I am an urban Deputy from Dún Laoghaire but I commend the Save Our National Schools campaign and all the parents, teachers and children who have come from all over the country, including Leitrim and Donegal, to fight and defend their small schools. I say to them, lest they be depressed at the responses they have heard from the Government side, that they should keep up their fight because the Government is worried. It hopes these people will go away but they should not and should keep harassing those in power.
In many of the responses we have heard from the other side, there has been a subtle attempt to play the country against the city and the big schools against the smaller institutions. Those people in the small villages and towns who are fighting for their small schools are doing so for the entire country and the education system. Everybody interested in defending that education system, whether they are children in big or small schools, in the city or country, has an interest in supporting these people in the fight for their small schools. If this Government gets away with attacking education or closing schools in one place, it will move very quickly to do the same elsewhere. I know big schools in urban areas are under massive pressure as well from the same agenda of cutbacks.
The Government's actions make no sense whatever, despite attempts to spin it as a positive. These are cutbacks, pure and simple, to obey the diktat of the troika. Some on the other side have argued we are exaggerating and full of hyperbole. Some years ago, a Deputy stated:
As far as I am concerned, these cuts will do irreparable damage. If ever cuts were made in the wrong place, these are them. These cuts represent a life sentence for children, their parents and their grandparents.
Who said these words but the current Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Quinn, in 2008. He was responding to Fianna Fáil education cuts. Was that hyperbole or exaggeration? Of course it was not and he was absolutely right. Now he is trying to justify the unjustifiable, and the consequence will be to rip the heart from rural communities. It will affect small schools in rural communities that are under massive pressure and which have lost significant numbers. They are literally hanging on for dear life. These communities will be under serious threat and if the Government takes away the small schools, it will rip the heart from them. The possibility of these communities disappearing will become very real and it will be a major attack on what is unique and special about an Irish culture of small village and town life in rural areas. It is absolutely disgraceful and this action will be counter-productive at every level.
There will be no savings as if amalgamations are to come about; there will be associated costs. There will also be transport costs and we will have to provide prefabs and refurbish the larger schools. That will cost money in any event. It is sickening that the Government is slipping in the language of the market and commercial viability to educational matters. Education is not about costs or financial viability but rather the future of our society. It is about young people and prospects for recovery.
The Government has argued there is no pot of gold and we do not have any money but it is telling untruths. I received an answer to a parliamentary question today from the Minister for Finance indicating that the top 10,000 earners in the country earned €6 billion in 2011. Their average earnings were €595,000 each per year and they paid an average of 29% tax. While the rest of the country is being savaged, these people are using tax loopholes to avoid paying their fair share. If the effective tax rate on the 10,000 richest people in the country could be raised, more than €1 billion could be generated and they would still have average earnings of €295,000 per year. They would still be super-rich but we would have an extra €1 billion that could ensure small schools would not suffer cuts. The nasty austerity attacks on the vulnerable sectors of our society would be unnecessary. The Government should protect our small schools and go after the super-wealthy in this country.
It is absolutely nauseating to listen to Members from the Government benches talking about improving quality in education when twice today parents, students and other pupils had to descend on the streets outside in defence of education. We are discussing small schools but it would be remiss of me not to mention the protest which took place today against the cuts in the numbers of special needs assistants, SNAs, and resource teaching. A family was in touch with me today whose 13 year old daughter, who has Down's syndrome, had an SNA for eight years in primary school and was doing very well in learning to write. It is criminal that she is going to secondary school and will not have an SNA to complete her education. That is the type of society our Government is advocating.
Government Deputies have showed some neck in their contributions. Deputy McNamara has said he is confused about what is going on and does not know if we are discussing legislation or a repeat of the motion discussed in the House in February. He is not sure why we are here. We are here because the issues tabled in February have still not been resolved. I am not scaremongering.
The people in the Gallery are not stupid. If the people who sent postcards are children, that does not mean they cannot comprehend what is being done to their communities and families. The problem is not that a postcard comes from a child but that the Government does not like the message the child is delivering because it highlights the betrayal by the Government. The idea that a Deputy would refer to the pupil-teacher ratio in his child's school, stating that it was 27:1, and suggest that somehow his child's welfare is being affected by the children in a rural school with a pupil-teacher ratio of 6:1 is outrageous. His child's welfare is being affected by the fact that this Government has failed to tackle the pupil-teacher ratio problem and has stood over the fact that we continue to have one of the worst pupil-teacher ratios in Europe. This is despite the promises of those in the Government before they came to power. The reason is that we have had a historically underfunded education system. Last year the Government spent 4.7% of GDP on education. This compares with the European average of 6.2%. The reality is that education is not an indulgence but an investment. The OECD and others have stated that education is more important than ever in a recessionary period. Unless the Government commits the necessary resources then all we have is a dressed-up version to hide the cutbacks the Government is implementing. The children in the Visitors Gallery and in urban areas will pay the price.
We cannot divorce this topic from the issue of the future of rural Ireland. A Deputy from Mayo stated that there has never been as much investment in rural Ireland and that county councils have never done as much in these areas. I am unsure which areas the Deputy was referring to because everyone knows that county councils are dealing with considerable cutbacks and that the rural communities are suffering decimation, emigration, unemployment, closure of post offices, which we heard of today, and closure of public houses. The school is at the cornerstone of that development. If uncertainty rests over the future of a school then the unravelling goes further. Why would one enroll a child in junior infants in a small school if one did not believe it would be there next year or the following year? It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and the future of a school can be jeopardised because it cannot get sufficient enrolment numbers. The Bill seeks to give some assurance and end some of this uncertainly by including certain conditions such as the condition that no teacher would teach more than four classes and so on.
These are necessary measures. The Government may believe that it can con people or it may refer to scaremongering but people understand that while some schools have escaped the cull this year and have managed to save their teachers because they engaged in the appeals process, there is no guarantee of what the future will hold. We should fight to put rural schools at the centre of a plan for rural regeneration and redevelopment. Earlier, I heard a good quote from a representative of the Nevin Economic Research Institute. He made the point that decisions should not be made solely on economic grounds because the social impact of decisions was vital.
We are discussing measures to protect and develop the fabric of rural Ireland. It is incredible that there are certain Deputies here from the Labour Party who, two weeks before the general election, produced a policy statement on education. They declared that the Labour Party believed in the equal right of every person regardless of family background or income to realise his or her full potential. They referred to the fact that investment in education was the most important investment we can make for our future and that it would be central to our economic recovery. They specifically stated that the Labour Party was committed to protecting children's education from the types of austerity supported by other parties. Then, the Labour Party came to power and did the opposite.
It is not that these are not austere times. We know the economic difficulties that exist in our State but the reality is that the Labour Party has chosen to put the welfare of bondholders ahead of the welfare of children. The Labour Party has chosen to put the welfare of those who earn of hundreds of thousands of euro over the right of investment in education. We know we will not win a vote on this Bill. However, because of Labour Party policy rural communities and small school communities, whether of minority religions or Gaeltacht areas, are getting up off their knees, getting organised and they will not go back into their box until their children get the type of education they deserve.
I congratulate Deputy Luke ‘Ming' Flanagan for bringing forward this Bill. The Bill seems perfectly logical, sensible and un-hysterical. It should be accepted by the Government without much hesitation. I am astounded at the opposition of the Government to the Bill and especially the accusation that those promoting it are in some way hysterical. Those behind the Bill have reason to be hysterical because the cuts in education are threatening those most dear to them, that is to say, their children and the cuts are threatening their children's education. The ultimate result of the Bill will be that some people will not get as good an education as others. The purpose of the Bill is to protect those minorities which may suffer as a result of the cuts being imposed by the Government. The cuts in education, which this Bill in particular addresses, have an effect on diversity, on communities and on the quality of education. As I understand it, the purpose of the Bill is to see that no one, no body, no community or no school is discriminated against or disadvantaged because of geography, culture, ethos or because it is in a Gaeltacht area. This seems perfectly reasonable. The mathematics of this issue point to the fact that some schools are disproportionately badly affected because they are in certain areas or because they teach or cater for certain minorities. As a result not all children are equal and some children are more equal than others. It appears the Government deliberately wishes to ignore this fact and perpetuate the fantasy that the cuts are equal and fairly introduced but it does not recognise the fact that some schools are disproportionately affected.
Section 2 establishes that not only should all children have the same rights to education but that education should be considered in a long-term way. Deputy Catherine Murphy adverted to this. The Bill suggests that demographics should be considered in any decisions, with reference to census after census and the long-term trend rather than the immediate short-term result, before any chops or cuts in certain areas. Education is a long-term decision. Seen from a purely financial viewpoint, it is a long-term investment as well. It is short-term and myopic to suggest that a given school has no short-term future because the population or demographics have been wrong in recent years and, therefore, certain changes must be made. We must examine future projections and past trends in education if we are to get the best value not only for the State but for pupils as well.
I wish to address the issue of minorities. Often the yardstick of the degree of civilisation of a nation is how it treats minorities. We are and always have been good at lecturing other States - some of which are close to us - about how they treat their minorities. If this is the litmus test, then we are not passing it. As recently as two months ago at the Church of Ireland general synod, the bishops and other groups were up in arms about the treatment of their educational ethos by the State and how it would be affected by cuts, especially in Border areas. A Church of Ireland clergyman in Cavan established without doubt that 99% of his flock required transport to get to school. Some were 20 miles away and it would cost an extra €100 per child to reach the school each day. As a result these people would be compelled to send their children to a school, although very good, not of their choice and of a different ethos. The result is that, over time, the schools would close and the ethos would suffer.
Other examples of that were brought up at the synod. The Bishop of Tuam said three of the six schools of which he was in charge were in danger as a result of the disproportionate effect of the cuts. Bishop Michael Burrows said the school in Clonroche would have to close and that this would be the forerunner of many other closures resulting directly from the cuts.
Out of 174 schools of which the Church of Ireland is patron, 130 are small. The people to whom I refer are not people who rise up in alarm. They are not necessarily people who whinge. They have a genuine worry that the cost of the cuts will be the dilution, if not the disintegration, of their ethos. This is important because if one destroys a community, ethos and culture and affects a geography, one is ultimately doing something irreversible. I ask the Minister of State to think again about what is happening as a result of the cuts, particularly in so far as they affect the smaller groups that are more helpless and less defensible. I ask him to make special provision for them and to accept the main principles of this Bill.
In February, we debated the budget measures in regard to teacher staffing schedules for schools. The debate over the past two evenings has been a rerun of that debate. While Deputy Flanagan's Bill is well intended, it is fundamentally misconceived. I do not say that in a disrespectful way. The proposals the Deputy advances would keep schools open even if there were not enough pupils to sustain them. Therefore, the Government will be opposing this Bill.
The value-for-money review of small primary schools, currently being finalised in my Department, should be available after the summer recess. The review is simply about evaluating all the facts to inform future policy in this area. The Minister, Deputy Quinn, will publish the review and bring it before this House so we can have a wide-ranging and properly informed debate on its outcomes and proposals.
Why is he not here?
Where is the Minister?
We should bear in mind that one third of public sector employees in the State work in the education sector. It is, therefore, not possible to exempt staffing in education completely from the Government's need to reduce expenditure. This is particularly the case at a time when the school-going population is increasing. There will be more difficult decisions in the next budget and the one thereafter. The very favourable staffing provision for small schools was put in place when resources were plentiful, at a time of demographic dividend when enrolments were falling.
The Government rejects the claims that are being made about closing small schools. The Opposition had been predicting wholesale closures of schools in the debate in February. Five schools have indicated their intention to close over the coming school year. Last year, there were three closures, and the year before there were four. All that is changing for small close schools is that, from next September, their average class size will no longer be as advantageous as it once was. The schools will still exist.
I have listened to some alarmist claims about the threat of school staffing schedule changes affecting the very fabric of rural areas. When I hear Deputies from Dún Laoghaire and south Dublin, and the great burghers of Dún Laoghaire and the great middle classes, lecturing me and the Government on the plight of rural Ireland-----
There is nobody else present to lecture.
-----I find it very hard to take. There is nobody more in tune with the needs of rural Ireland than Deputies and Ministers such as me. We represent the very people in question and are doing our best to defend, when we can, the rights of the schools concerned.
Cá bhfuil an tAire?
I will take no lectures from the likes of Deputy Boyd Barrett who, on every occasion, manipulates people in the Visitors Gallery for his cynical aims. He is no more a socialist than the man in the moon. He is a cynic and manipulates public discourse for his own ends. He knows nothing about rural Ireland or its people.
The Minister of State should state he supports the Bill.
Some months ago, in response to a Topical Issue debate on education, the Minister of State, Deputy Cannon, pointed out that, "On numerous occasions in recent months, both the Taoiseach, Deputy Enda Kenny, and the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Quinn, have stressed that on their watch no rural school will be forced to close or amalgamate without the express wish of the local community involved". I note from the communities that they have no wish to see their local schools closed or amalgamated.
A spread-of-population issue arises for many of the schools that are covered by the proposed Bill, especially in regard to schools in certain rural areas and on the islands. However, they must not be penalised for that. The Bill simply asks that all reasonable provision be made to ensure the continued operation of the schools in the event of their attendance levels declining. An important point arises regarding the use of the demographic trends established in the last census of population. There was an interesting presentation this morning on the census. The facts are all available.
We do not want to go to the other extreme, namely, oversupplying schools built solely for political gain in certain areas. Small schools have had a better pupil-teacher ratio but this must be balanced with the challenge of teaching students of varying ages in the one classroom. Our national schools comprise the first real steps on the formal education ladder. Mar a deireann an seanfhocal, "Tús maith, leath na hoibre". A good start is vital for everyone, regardless of whether one lives in an area of high population density or an isolated rural area with pupil numbers in single figures. Quality of education and equality of access are vital for everyone.
There is no doubt that smaller schools are in danger. The budget cuts and the cuts to expenditure in education are increasing the difficulties for all schools, but there are some schools that can manage a little better than others. Smaller schools are in a different arena. The cuts to smaller schools could make circumstances so difficult for them that they would be forced to close, with disastrous consequences for their communities. Small schools do work and this can be seen from reports of the Department of Education and Skills following assessment and inspections. The most recent departmental inspectorate's report found no significant relationship between school size and the quality of teaching, learning and assessment in schools. The Minister himself stated small schools are an important part of the social fabric of rural communities, and we do not want to see further unravelling of that fabric.
The small schools value-for-money review is still pending. I agree with the INTO's call for a forum after the publication of the report to discuss it and produce a strategy for small schools. I suggest the random selection of principals, teachers and parents to engage in the discussion.
In practical terms, fewer schools will mean longer periods of travel for some pupils and significant increases in the cost of travel. However, we know there is more to the closure of a small school than the loss of the school itself. I am from the city and, like many Dubliners, have a great grá for rural areas. I was very supportive of the rural resettlement scheme and was delighted to see families from Dublin moving to the country. Part of the attraction was moving to a small community with a small school. We know the Celtic tiger created sprawling housing estates with few or no resources and massive demand in certain schools. There are schools in urban areas bursting at the seams and schools in some rural areas losing numbers but we must strike a balance and take account of this.
Glacann scoileanna Gaeltachta agus scoileanna ar oileáin sa Ghaeltacht páirt riachtannach agus ríthábhachtach maidir leis an teanga a spreagadh agus a chur chun cinn. One final point about island schools, which comes from a friend of mine who has been an island principal for over 35 years, is that a two teacher minimum is vital if the curriculum is to be covered adequately and satisfactorily. There should be full facilities and fast Internet access comparable to standards on the mainland because island parents have no other choice. The local school, it must be stressed, nurtures the local culture and traditions of the area. She stated the school is the heartbeat of any small community and young families will not settle in the island communities unless their children are guaranteed high standards comparable to those of the mainland schools. Her last point was that if we deprive the island parents of this, we ring the death knell of our island communities.
I do not know that there has been any Bill that ever came before this House that was perfect. There is one good way to perfect the Bill: vote for it, let us discuss it, amend it and get it right. Obviously, the Government does not care. If it cared, there would be more of its Members here. If the Minister cared, he would be here.
He would be here.
It is scandalous.
Order.
This is the reason I am doing this. I am not doing it for populism. I believe in issues that are not popular as well. I will bring a Bill before the Dáil in January and February next. Then the Government will accuse me, not of populism but of naivety. I go with what I believe in, whether it is popular or not.
It is a well-known fact that to deal with a problem, one must first acknowledge that there is a problem. I stated yesterday that we need a plan for rural Ireland and that my proposed changes to the Education Act will not solve the problems of small schools on its own. This Bill will merely act as a dam to prevent the further erosion of their existence. What will build up behind this dam is up to the Government. If we do not make the right decisions for rural Ireland, then that dam will burst inevitably and rural Ireland will die anyway. If the right decisions are made on rural regeneration, then the future of the areas I love will be saved.
From listening to the contributions of the Government side, however, one would believe that rural Ireland's future is not under threat. The Government is in total denial about this. Until it recognises this fact, the future of small schools will be under constant threat of erosion and, eventually, extinction. In fact, one of the Government Deputies yesterday expressed his desire to see all schools with fewer than four teachers closed. I wonder, when rural Government Deputies dismiss the idea of the decline of rural areas, whether they are going around with blinkers on. The decline is nothing new. It is something that has slowly but surely happened in my area since the 1950s.
What I am going to say now I said in every hall in which I spoke in before the election. I also said it in the Chamber once. If you cannot improve on it, keep saying it. I am going to keep saying this until the Government finally gets the message.
There is a closed shop called Mannion's on the Ballymoe Road out of my town of Castlerea. When one looks at it now, it appears like a strange place for a shop to be. Who would ever have used it? I have spoken to many people in that area and they tell me there was a time when it thrived. Five statute miles - excuse my language but there are people around my area who use it - from my home is a village called Castleplunkett. It once was a thriving village with four shops. There are now no shops left. Then again, one might ask, what would they need them for as it is only a small area. Seven statute miles in the opposite direction is a town called Ballinlough. I am told that at one stage this town had 12 shops in it; now it has two. How long before it, like Castleplunkett, has none?
Let us look at my home town. At one stage, we had more than 50 thriving shops, two cinemas, three dance halls, three bakeries - I could go on. Now, we have only a handful of businesses left. Where will we be in ten years' time? Will people be saying the same about Castlerea as they are about towns of the country such as Castleplunkett? When people see the empty derelict shopfronts of Castlerea, will they ask why put a shop in such a small town? I use the example of my own town because I know it best, but the same question could be asked of towns such as Ballyhaunis in Mayo, Dunmore in Galway, Ballaghaderreen in west Roscommon and hundreds of other small towns. Where is the future? If one fails to plan then one plans to fail. The denial of the fact that future existence of rural Ireland is not a given means either we plan now or there will be nothing to plan for within a generation.
Far from planning a future for these areas, the Government is proactively dismantling them. There has been the closure of our post offices and Garda stations. In many cases, all that is now left to identify an area as having a human settlement is that of the local school. In the budget, the Minister, Deputy Quinn created a template for fast-tracking the rapid demise of many of these schools. He does not even have the guts to come in here to defend it today. Apologies for discussing it again, but we will discuss it until the issue is dealt with. The Government's core argument is that these areas no longer deserve to have a school because numbers are low. It is time for that argument to be turned on its head. The thinking from now on must be why there are so few people in these areas and how, through Government policy, this situation can be reversed. One way of not achieving this is to close the two, three and four teacher schools by stealth. Once closed, they will never open again.
I heard some Government Deputies yesterday and today inform me we are only losing a handful of schools every year. Is that meant to be okay? The question is when was the last time a new rural school opened? Maybe the Government would like us all to move to new towns such as Adamstown. I will not be moving there. I am staying in my town because I love it. Once a school is closed and people from that area are coerced into the next nearest school, people eventually leave that area in order to be closer to the new school. With it go the local shops I mentioned because people use the shops near their school, and the old areas die and never recover.
It is bad enough that rural Government Deputies dismiss the idea of rural decline by saying that only a handful of schools are lost but, worse still, they are now backing a plan which will systematically lead to the eventual closure of hundreds of schools. It reminds me of an episode of "Sesame Street" and a scene from Ernie and Bert's house from many years ago. Bert was always the boss and Ernie always did what he was told. He was meant to, anyway. Bert put a plate of biscuits on the table before he went to bed and he told Ernie to leave them until the next morning. Ernie liked his biscuits but he thought he could cod Burt. He nibbled away at the outside of the biscuits, headed back to bed and thought it would not be noticed. He got up again in the middle of the night, and one can guess what happened by the following morning - all the biscuits were gone. One can guess what the Minister, Deputy Quinn, is trying to do. He will nibble away at these schools, as it were, he will tell us nothing is to happen to them, but some morning we will get up and they will be gone.
I remember that episode.
We are told that these decisions must be taken because of economic realities in Ireland. We are told that decimating these schools will save the State €15 million. When one looks at the details, it is not quite so clear-cut. If, due to these cuts, a school is forced to close, this will mean an inevitable extra expense of amalgamating it with another school. It will, in the majority of cases, mean that money will need to be spent on upgrading infrastructure. There is also the issue with the teacher. When the school closes, the State will have to pay him or her. There will be no saving there. What about the cash-strapped parent who will now have to go further with his or her children to another school? There is no saving here for the parent, only increased costs.
Let us say the Government was genuine in stating it will save €15 million. I believe it could find this somewhere else. In a recent report on living standards in Ireland, the CSO reported that in 2010 those on the lowest income decile experienced a decrease in equivalised disposable income of more than 26% while those in the highest income decile experienced an increase in income of more than 8%. This shows quite clearly that the super-rich are thriving and are in a position to give more back to the State.
There is also the long-term economic downside to reducing educational resources. Studies have shown that funding taken out of primary education costs five times as much down the line. If the Government succeeds in its plan to decimate these schools, it will not save the country one red cent but will, in fact, cost the country more money.
Variety is the spice of life and in Ireland we have lots of it. We need to protect this variety with passion. The more we force people into towns, the more we dilute variety and become the same as everywhere else. Homogeneity is for milk, not people. When I was a child I used to watch my mother making dinner and as I got older, I used to help her. When I first started to help I was curious as to the reason she went to so much trouble by boiling carrots, spuds and cabbage in separate pots. I wondered if it would not be quicker and use less fuel to boil everything together. She agreed it would be but said one would not get the same flavour because everything would end up tasting the same. The same applies in life, which is not all about perceived efficiency. We are not robots. We are all different and come from different areas and, with that, we bring variety. If the Government continues with its plans for rural schools and throws everyone into one pot, in years to come we will end up with a bland society where everyone speaks with a mid-Atlantic twang and being Irish will mean nothing.
Regardless of whether the Government accepts the Bill, I ask it to at least stall the cuts until the review on the future of small schools is completed. Failing that, its review will have as much credibility as an archer who fires the arrow first before drawing a target.
The writer and journalist John Healy will be forever remembered for his book, No One Shouted Stop, on the death of an Irish town. That is no longer the case because we are shouting “Stop”. Now that we are doing so, will the Government kindly listen and vote for the Bill?
Question put:
The Dáil divided: Tá, 44; Níl, 85.
Tá
- Adams, Gerry.
- Boyd Barrett, Richard.
- Calleary, Dara.
- Collins, Joan.
- Collins, Niall.
- Colreavy, Michael.
- Cowen, Barry.
- Crowe, Seán.
- Daly, Clare.
- Doherty, Pearse.
- Dooley, Timmy.
- Ellis, Dessie.
- Ferris, Martin.
- Flanagan, Luke ‘Ming’.
- Fleming, Sean.
- Halligan, John.
- Healy, Seamus.
- Healy-Rae, Michael.
- Higgins, Joe.
- Lowry, Michael.
- Mac Lochlainn, Pádraig.
- McConalogue, Charlie.
- McDonald, Mary Lou.
- McGrath, Finian.
- McGrath, Mattie.
- McGrath, Michael.
- McGuinness, John.
- McLellan, Sandra.
- Moynihan, Michael.
- Murphy, Catherine.
- Naughten, Denis.
- Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
- Ó Cuív, Éamon.
- Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
- Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
- O’Brien, Jonathan.
- O’Dea, Willie.
- O’Sullivan, Maureen.
- Pringle, Thomas.
- Ross, Shane.
- Stanley, Brian.
- Tóibín, Peadar.
- Troy, Robert.
- Wallace, Mick.
Níl
- Bannon, James.
- Breen, Pat.
- Broughan, Thomas P.
- Bruton, Richard.
- Butler, Ray.
- Buttimer, Jerry.
- Byrne, Catherine.
- Byrne, Eric.
- Carey, Joe.
- Coffey, Paudie.
- Collins, Áine.
- Conaghan, Michael.
- Connaughton, Paul J.
- Conway, Ciara.
- Coonan, Noel.
- Corcoran Kennedy, Marcella.
- Costello, Joe.
- Creed, Michael.
- Creighton, Lucinda.
- Daly, Jim.
- Deasy, John.
- Deenihan, Jimmy.
- Deering, Pat.
- Donohoe, Paschal.
- Dowds, Robert.
- Doyle, Andrew.
- Durkan, Bernard J.
- English, Damien.
- Farrell, Alan.
- Ferris, Anne.
- Flanagan, Charles.
- Flanagan, Terence.
- Griffin, Brendan.
- Hannigan, Dominic.
- Harrington, Noel.
- Harris, Simon.
- Hayes, Tom.
- Heydon, Martin.
- Howlin, Brendan.
- Humphreys, Kevin.
- Keating, Derek.
- Keaveney, Colm.
- Kenny, Seán.
- Kyne, Seán.
- Lawlor, Anthony.
- Lynch, Ciarán.
- Lynch, Kathleen.
- Lyons, John.
- McCarthy, Michael.
- McEntee, Shane.
- McFadden, Nicky.
- McHugh, Joe.
- McLoughlin, Tony.
- McNamara, Michael.
- Mathews, Peter.
- Mitchell, Olivia.
- Mulherin, Michelle.
- Murphy, Dara.
- Nash, Gerald.
- Neville, Dan.
- Nolan, Derek.
- Noonan, Michael.
- Nulty, Patrick.
- Ó Ríordáin, Aodhán.
- O’Donnell, Kieran.
- O’Donovan, Patrick.
- O’Mahony, John.
- O’Reilly, Joe.
- O’Sullivan, Jan.
- Perry, John.
- Phelan, John Paul.
- Reilly, James.
- Ring, Michael.
- Ryan, Brendan.
- Shatter, Alan.
- Sherlock, Sean.
- Shortall, Róisín.
- Stagg, Emmet.
- Stanton, David.
- Timmins, Billy.
- Tuffy, Joanna.
- Twomey, Liam.
- Varadkar, Leo.
- Wall, Jack.
- White, Alex.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Catherine Murphy and Luke ‘Ming’ Flanagan; Níl, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Joe Carey.
Question declared lost.