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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 10 Jul 2012

Vol. 772 No. 1

Topical Issue Debate

Boston College Belfast Project Papers

On 6 July, the Federal Court of Appeal for the First Circuit in the US upheld the subpoena issued by the British Government relating to the Northern Ireland oral history project held in Boston College. As a result, Boston College must give police the recordings by its researchers of oral history project discussions and talks with Dolours Price by next month, after an appeals court in the US rejected an effort to stop the release. Boston College in Massachusetts is still trying to quash a broader order for other materials from its projects. I understand that lawyers representing the journalists behind the Boston College interviews with former paramilitaries have requested an urgent and immediate hearing in Belfast in a bid to block testimony being handed over to the Police Service of Northern Ireland, PSNI, and a hearing is expected this week in Belfast.

Subpoenas were issued to Boston College at the request of the British Government under the Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty, MLAT, between the US and the UK. The subpoenas are part of an investigation by the UK authorities into the 1972 abduction and death of Jean McConville, who disappeared and was murdered in the most appalling circumstances.

A number of issues arise. First, one could argue there has been a refusal to face up to the issues surrounding the conflict in Northern Ireland and a failure to be more honest with the families, particularly the families of those who disappeared, such as the family of Mrs. Jean McConville. The issue that has arisen in this context concerns the oral history project and the clear decision of the courts in the United States that academic confidentiality does not trump criminal investigations. This is an important decision and I can understand it.

Bearing in mind the history of Northern Ireland, one must acknowledge that while there are those who, last week, welcomed the decision to have a criminal investigation into activities of soldiers regarding the murders that took place on Bloody Sunday in Derry many years ago, there are also those who will want to see every effort made to investigate fully the abduction and murder of Mrs. Jean McConville. That said, the authors of the history project now feel their lives are at risk because of the court's decision, which comprises a serious issue in its own right. It is felt bringing closure and arriving at the truth will be jeopardised by the decision.

The balance must come down on the side of pursuing the issue on behalf of the McConville family. Various parties in the North have said we need a forum of reconciliation or a truth commission. They have put forward various ideas, knowing in all honesty that they will never come to fruition. We need an admission that, since 1974, nearly 1,700 people were killed or murdered by the Provisional IRA. People should acknowledge that there was no need for any of this and that, within the Sunningdale Agreement, there was the genesis of a solution. Twenty years later came the Downing Street Declaration and then the Good Friday Agreement. Thousands of people lost their lives unnecessarily as a result of the delay. It was a complete abomination for the people of this island. This needs to be faced up to.

This issue relates to evidence or material Ms Dolours Price gave and which the PSNI believes will be of assistance to it in pursuing the case. I do not know whether this is the case as I do not have access to the material. I have read Voices from the Grave containing the testimony of Mr. Brendan Hughes. It was riveting and revealing in respect of what occurred in the early 1970s in Northern Ireland. It referred to the various divisions within the Provisional movement. If there had been more up-front honesty from the Provisionals-Sinn Féin movement and the truth had been told much earlier in regard to the disappeared, in particular, we might not now be at this juncture. I am anxious to ascertain the Government’s position on this. I ask the Sinn Féin leaders or those whom they may know within the defunct Provisional IRA movement to co-operate with the PSNI in the investigation in order to enable closure for the families concerned.

Will the Minister of State outline what he believes to be the implications of the judgment for the papers handed over to Boston College in regard to the decommissioning body of Mr. John de Chastelain? Has the Government any cause to review the decision to send the papers of the body to the US State Department and Boston College?

I have been asked by the Tánaiste to deal with the issue of the Boston College archive, as raised by Deputy Martin.

Let me set out the background to the case. In March 2011, the British Government, acting on behalf of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, PSNI, initiated proceedings with the US Department of Justice under the Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty between the two countries. These legal proceedings led to a subpoenaing of a collection of archived interviews being held in Boston College. The archives are part of the Belfast Project , involving an oral history of republican and loyalist paramilitaries deposited in the Burns Library at the college.

The initial subpoena related to the interviews of Ms Dolours Price and Mr. Brendan Hughes, two former members of the Provisional IRA. A second subpoena was issued seeking "any and all interviews containing information about the abduction and death of Ms Jean McConville", one of the disappeared victims of the Provisional IRA.

Two legal challenges were launched by Boston College and separately by Mr. Mclntyre and Mr. Moloney to quash the subpoenas. Mr. Mclntyre and Mr. Moloney argued that the British Government had made a "solemn promise" that it would not "reopen issues addressed in the Belfast Agreement, or impede any further efforts to resolve the conflict in Northern Ireland". In December 2011, these challenges were dismissed by US District Court judge William Young. Following this review, the judge's order that all relevant materials be handed over to the British Government was delayed following further legal efforts by Mr. Mclntyre and Mr. Moloney. Last Friday, 6 July, the US Federal Court of Appeals for the First Circuit turned down their appeal. As matters stand, this means the archived material must be handed over by Boston College to the US authorities for onward transmission to their British counterparts. However, Mr. Moloney and Mr. Mclntyre are considering a motion for a re-hearing of the case. They also continue to keep their legal options open in the Belfast courts.

Last February, the Tánaiste told the House in reply to a parliamentary question that as the issue of the archive was currently the subject of ongoing legal proceedings before the courts in the United States, it would be inappropriate for the Government to comment on the matter at that time.

On 23 January 2012, Senator John Kerry, chairman of the US Senate Committee on Foreign Relations wrote to Secretary of State Clinton to warn of the danger that the subpoena might "upset the delicate balance that has kept the peace" in Northern Ireland and asked that she "work with the British authorities to reconsider the path they have chosen and revoke their request". Other prominent Irish Americans have agreed with Senator Kerry's assessment.

The Deputy will appreciate that a number of factors inform the Government's views on this matter. The issue is subject to a mutual legal assistance treaty between the US and British Governments. As Senator Kerry and others have said, the issue undoubtedly has the potential to make an impact on the peace process. However, in the Government's view, the peace process is sufficiently firmly bedded down to enable it to withstand whatever pressures may emerge from time to time. The issue also has a bearing on how we deal with the past generally. We know the pain and hurt of victims, including that of the McConville family, never cease. We need to find sensitive ways of dealing with the past that meet the needs of victims and the bereaved.

Clearly, the case is a matter that the courts in the United States have spoken on and may do so again, as may the courts in Northern Ireland. Officials of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, in addition to those of the Department of Justice and Equality, will continue to monitor closely any further developments.

I accept the Minister of State's statement that the Government's view is that the peace process is sufficiently firmly bedded down to enable it to withstand whatever pressures are brought to bear upon it. Increasingly, however, the needs of victims and the bereaved are surfacing, on all sides. Issues are surfacing through the historical inquiries team, with some very limited success in some cases and with some degree of closure in others. Up-front honesty has been singularly lacking from all concerned regarding the disappeared of the McConville family. There is a very clear case for this issue to be addressed.

Will the Minister of State indicate whether he or the Minister for Justice and Equality intends to meet Mr. McIntyre and Mr. Moloney to discuss their circumstances, bearing in mind the fears they have expressed? To be fair to them, they embarked on the project in a genuine way. One might say they believed, perhaps naïvely, in the legal guarantees they received. I accept, on balance, the need to have this issue pursued to secure justice for the McConville family. Perhaps it might be short-circuited if people could indicate what occurred and how it happened so that the McConville family could be given closure. It was a disgraceful and unacceptable action that bore no relation to any degree of civility by any definition or yardstick. It is a stain on the country and the provisional movement in particular.

The Minister of State mentioned that the Government knew that victims' pain and hurt never ceased and that sensitive ways of dealing with the issue needed to be found. Those ways have eluded us because all parties to the situation, some more than others, proposed solutions that they knew would not travel on the other side, allowing them the facade of being interested in an international oversight body when they knew full well that it would never come about.

Despite the best efforts of the Eames-Bradley process, people could not be pulled together in this regard. As part of the agenda, there is a desire to bring closure to the many families who suffered unspeakable losses as a result of the murder and mayhem of the years in question.

The needs of the victims, including in the tragic Jean McConville case, are the Government's priority consideration. The Government has been seeking all mechanisms to provide reconciliation and effect closure. The Minister for Justice and Equality and the Tánaiste will continue to monitor the proceedings in question. There may be a rehearing of the case, which is the option being retained by Mr. Moloney and Mr. McIntyre. They also retain the option of going to the courts in Belfast.

I did not answer the Deputy's question on decommissioning. This matter has been addressed under the Vienna convention. None of the material that is also deposited in the Boston College can be accessed until 2041. It is out of the hands of the British Government and the Irish authorities. The material can only be accessed on the request of either of those authorities.

Insurance Industry

Late on the night of Sunday, 5 November 2000 and early the next morning is a time that I will not forget for the rest of my life. I was with residents in estates in Lucan in my constituency and I remember the looks of horror on their faces as they tried to save their homes, many of which were flooded by several feet of water. Twelve years have passed, €5 million has been invested and no further floodings have affected the area despite similar devastation in other cities, towns and homes throughout the country. Despite this, many insurance companies still deny insurance cover to the residents of the estates in question. This is wrong, given the investment and everything that has occurred since 2000. Will the Minister of State ask the Irish Insurance Federation, IIF, to tell its members not to discriminate against these residents? They should not be denied flood cover in 2012.

I have raised this matter with the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Hayes, previously and he has engaged with the IIF, but not enough is being done. Last night, I met residents in the Artane area who were still suffering the consequences of floods in 2008 and 2009 and on 24 October 2011. If one cannot get house insurance, one's home is effectively worthless, as no incoming buyer can get a mortgage without house insurance.

This situation is out of the control of residents. Many of the areas were not affected in the 2002 Dublin floods and whatever has since occurred is probably a question for the local authority, but the residents are unable to get flood insurance for their homes. Will the Minister of State ask the IIF to engage more readily with local authorities in finding solutions to the flooding problems that clearly still exist? This is not just a local constituency issue, given the fact that the situation in Cork is on many people's minds as well. The problem affects other constituencies. The city council does not seem to be undertaking a process to reach a solution in respect of the River Naniken in Artane. Will the Minister of State update us on the councils' negotiations with the IIF? Residents need house insurance if their homes are not to be made worthless by a situation that is beyond their control.

I thank the Deputies for raising an important issue. I apologise on behalf of the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, who is unable to attend. At the outset, I express my sympathy to anybody whose home or business was flooded in recent weeks. It is a difficult time for such people and the House will be aware that the Department of Social Protection is providing individuals with emergency payments to offset immediate needs, for example, assistance with the purchase of food, clothing, fuel and household goods. A number of community welfare service clinics operating in the Cork area have extended their opening hours, providing an additional emergency service. This has been supplemented by facilitating clients by appointments and making house calls to those in affected areas.

Regarding the substantive issue of the provision of new flood cover or the renewal of existing flood cover, it should be noted that this is a commercial matter for insurance companies and must be based on a proper assessment of the risks that they are accepting. These are often considered on a case-by-case basis and it is important to be clear that neither the Government nor the Central Bank has any influence in this regard. The Central Bank's consumer protection code contains no provisions that compel an insurance company to accept a particular insurance risk.

The IIF has advised me that flood insurance cover is available to approximately 98% of householders. The IIF has indicated that, when making an underwriting decision, an insurer reviews a property's claims history and any flood protection measure implemented by the Office of Public Works or local authority. As a result, some people will pay a higher premium because the flood risk is higher or will have a higher flood excess on their policies. According to the IIF, insurers try to provide flood cover wherever possible. However, it makes the point that flood insurance is sometimes not economically viable and, in the interests of keeping premiums affordable for policyholders in general, insurers decline flood cover for new business for some risks or in certain cases need to withdraw flood cover at renewal.

Due to the difficulties currently being experienced by householders in certain areas in accessing flood insurance, the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Hayes, and his officials in the OPW have had a number of meetings with the IIF. These discussions have allowed a sharing of information and better understanding about the scope and scale of the work undertaken by the OPW on its flood risk management programme and, in particular, on the mapping of areas subject to flood risk nationally, which will emerge from the OPW's catchment flood risk assessment and management, CFRAM, programme. This work is being undertaken on the OPW's behalf by specialist consultants and is organised into six regional or catchment areas. These comprehensive studies will recommend an integrated management plan and prioritised measures to address flood problems in areas where there is significant risk. As the Deputies will be aware, a programme of flood relief work is also ongoing around the country.

Part of the discussions have focused on how the insurance industry could best address the issue of the provision of flood insurance where incidences of difficulties in obtaining flood insurance are being raised. The industry maintains that the incidence rate represents a small element of its business and that, where difficulties arise, the causes are complex, with each case being assessed in light of the particular circumstances applying. The OPW and the IIF are keen to establish an ongoing means of sharing information on areas vulnerable to flooding, on identifying flood defence works carried out or funded by the OPW and on the impact of those works in reducing the risk of flooding in areas where flooding previously occurred.

Work is continuing on this matter and a number of issues remain to be clarified with a view to agreeing with the Irish Insurance Federation a viable basis on which information can be provided. There are complex technical issues involved concerning the design standards and risk levels of defence works and maintenance arrangements.

I thank the Minister of State for the quite comprehensive reply, although he will not be too surprised to hear that I am not happy with the Irish Insurance Federation's indication that when making underwriting decisions, it considers the claims history of property and flood protection measures implemented by the Office of Public Works and the local authorities. In my own constituency, approximately €5 million was invested and the success of those works has been shown over the past 12 years when many other cities, towns, villages and homes throughout the country have been devastated. Nevertheless, there are people in estates whose homes were flooded once 12 years ago - the homes were built on flood plains - but investment was made and the works have been successful, and these people are still being denied flood cover.

Will the Minister of State relay my concerns to the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Brian Hayes? Will he pay me the courtesy of a visit so I can show him the works that have been done? I still need to revert to the IIF and demonstrate my unhappiness with that element of the reply.

The indication is that the IIF, while making underwriting decisions on insurance, considers the claims history of the property and any flood protection measures implemented by the Office of Public Works, OPW, and local authorities. Clanmoyle Road in Donnycarney is an example in my constituency and I am quite sure it is replicated nationwide. Extensive works have been done by the city council but the position has not changed for those householders. The council has indicated to me that a hydraulic analysis of the River Naniken is required but there is no funding to do it. What happens then? Works are required but there are no funds, although applications have been made to the OPW with little success. What is the householder to do when there is a need identified by the city council but works have not been carried out and people are left with no home insurance?

I ask the Minister of State to engage again with the insurance federation, the local authorities and the Office of Public Works to ensure that any identified needs necessary to expedite this problem can be carried out. When a process is place, the works can be presented to the Irish Insurance Federation. This cannot carry on and residents in my constituency and throughout the country should not be looking at dark clouds and wondering if the problem will happen again. That is the exactly what is happening in my constituency and I am sure it is the same in other Deputies' areas.

The OPW has informed me that the flood alleviation works on the River Griffeen in Lucan were carried out by South Dublin County Council and completed in 2006. The initial phase of the works was funded by the council and the final phase was funded by the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government. The council has indicated that the works were completed satisfactorily and it is unaware of any continuing flooding issue in Lucan since the works were completed. I am happy to relay the Deputy's request to meet the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Brian Hayes, and I am certain he will visit the site and speak directly to Deputy Keating. I have asked the OPW to follow up with South Dublin County Council and the insurance industry as part of ongoing discussions. A meeting with representatives of the IIF involving everybody might be a good way to follow up.

The previous Administration examined the introduction of a scheme to protect householders who cannot obtain household insurance from regular insurance bodies due to flooding risk. This approach was not considered financially viable as it was believed that over time it would incentivise the industry to discontinue the provision of cover in medium and high risk areas, thus making the cost of such a scheme prohibitive. In the current economic circumstances there are no proposals for a State indemnification scheme.

The OPW allocation for flood risk management for 2012 is €45 million, with a further €17 million provided for maintenance of completed arterial drainage schemes. The EU floods directive requires that the catchment flood risk assessment and management study, CFRAMS, be completed by the end of December 2015. I will bring the concerns of both Deputies to the attention of the Minister of State, Deputy Hayes, and I ask them to sit down with representatives of the OPW and arrange for the Minister of State to visit the affected sites.

Schools Building Projects

I thank the Ceann Comhairle and his staff for the opportunity to raise this very important issue. Last week, it was announced that the European Investment Bank, EIB, is to provide a €100 million loan to support the Department of Education and Skills capital investment programme. This programme, worth €1.5 billion, will see a number of major school building projects commence between now and 2016. It is anticipated that the €100 million loan being provided by the EIB will be used in the construction and upgrading of 35 primary and 12 second level schools around the country.

I will address the issue of the Holy Rosary College in Mountbellew, County Galway, and restate the need for this grossly overcrowded secondary school to be given the go-ahead for a new school building. It is 12 years since the project got under way and staff, students and parents connected to the school have been understandably frustrated by the significant delay in bringing this project to fruition. News that the school is not on the five-year programme has frustrated school authorities even further, given the current state of the school in terms of student numbers.

Holy Rosary College in Mountbellew was established almost half a century ago and the current school building is designed to cater for 350 students; the school currently caters for 550 students, leading to significant logistical problems for staff. Recent school building programmes were decided on the basis of projected population growth but this growth has already happened in Mountbellew and a new school building programme is urgently required. The Department has previously recognised this population growth in the local area, with the local national school - St. Mary's national school - recently extended and expected to cater for increased pupil numbers in the coming years. Crèche and Montessori facilities within the town now have waiting lists, proving that the number of young people using schools in Mountbellew is increasing, and hence the need for a new school building.

The significant overcrowding in Holy Rosary College in Mountbellew has had significant repercussions for the students attending the school. It currently has no proper gym, which is completely unacceptable for any secondary school, and especially at a time when young people are being encouraged to increase activity levels and the Government is introducing a variety of programmes aimed at tackling childhood obesity. Boosting the capacity of Irish students in the sciences is another goal of the Government and students at Holy Rosary College in Mountbellew do not have the science labs required for studying science in the 21st century. That also must be addressed as a priority.

I accept there are major budgetary concerns across all Departments but the students and staff at Holy Rosary College deserve a new school building. With that in mind, I ask the Minister that in the event of any delay being experienced with other projects in the five-year programme, Holy Rosary College would be considered the first substitute on the list. I also ask that if additional funding comes to the Department, it should be used for school building in the coming years.

I thank the Deputy for raising this matter as it allows me to clarify the current position of the proposed building project for Holy Rosary College, Mountbellew, County Galway, in the context of the Government's strategy for capital investment in school building projects over the next five years. To ensure every child has access to a school place, the delivery of projects to meet future demographic demands nationally will be the main focus for capital investment in schools over the coming years. The five-year construction programme outlines when 275 selected major projects will progress to construction over the next five years as part of a €2 billion capital investment programme. Those projects will account for most of the capital funding available from now until 2016.

Total enrolment is expected to grow by around 70,000 students between now and 2018, which is just six years away. This will involve an increase of over 45,000 pupils at primary level and 25,000 students at post-primary level. Holy Rosary College Mountbellew is in the Castleblakeney and Mountbellew post-primary feeder area. There are also two other post-primary schools in the feeder area, namely St. Cuan's College, Castleblakeney, and Coláiste an Chreagáin, Mountbellew.

At post-primary level, the total enrolments for the area have been relatively stable over the past decade. The enrolments for 2011 and 2012 stood at 834 pupils across the three schools. Based on the current intake pattern for the schools, the Department has projected that enrolments will remain stable with a predicted total enrolment figure of 816 by 2023.

The proposed building project at Holy Rosary College is to provide accommodation for a long-term projected enrolment of 550 pupils. Enrolment in the school in September 2011 was at 547 pupils. The brief includes the provision of a PE hall, a language lab, a computer room, a music and drama area, a religion room and other ancillary accommodation. Some refurbishment of the existing school building also forms part of the brief. The building project has completed the design stages of architectural planning and remains available to be considered for progression to tender and construction should additional funding become available to the Department in future years.

The stage 2(b) submission, which includes full detailed design and tender documents, was approved by my Department on 30 November 2011. However, due to the competing demands on the Department's capital budget imposed by the need to prioritise the limited funding available for the provision of additional school accommodation to meet increasing demographic requirements, it was not possible to include the project for Holy Rosary College in the five year construction programme announced in March.

All school building projects which have not been included in the five year construction programme, but which were previously announced for inclusion in the building programme, will continue to be progressed to final planning stages in anticipation of the possibility of further funds being available to the Department in future years. The project for Holy Rosary College remains available to be considered for progression in this context. However, it is not possible at this time to progress the project to tender and construction stage. I thank the Deputy for raising the matter with me.

I thank the Minister for his reply and I understand everything he has gone through and the restrictions on the Department. However, I reiterate that the school is built to cater for only 350 students and now caters for 550 students. It is the school I and all my family attended and I am very grateful for the education I received there. Since then the numbers have increased. When the project initially began 12 years ago I was completing my leaving certificate; this is how long ago it began. At that stage the Department told the school it should seek a new school building due to the increase in numbers then. I recognise the fact that the numbers are stable at present. However, the growth has already occurred in Mountbellew and this needs to be recognised.

If another school is unable to fulfil its promise to build a school in the next five years would Holy Rosary College be considered at the top of the list? If any funding becomes available to the Department in the coming years, the parents, students and people of Mountbellew and surrounding areas would like to ensure it would mean Holy Rosary College would be at the top of the list. I extended an invitation to the Minister at any opportunity he has to visit the school to see the cramped conditions. I would be very grateful for any support the Department can give the school in the coming years.

Recent birth rate data published by the CSO shows almost 20,000 births were registered in the first quarter of 2011. This is the highest number of births registered in a quarter since the series began in 1960. It is vital the schooling system is prepared to cope with these increasing numbers. Therefore, the Government's priority over the next five years will have to be focused on major school projects to meet these increasing demographic demands. As such enrolment increases are not uniformly distributed nationally, the Department has carried out a study of the country using data from the Central Statistics Office, the General Registry Office and the Department of Social Protection in addition to recent schools enrolment data to identify areas in which there will be sufficient future enrolment increases. The information used is the most accurate and up-to-date available.

The five year programme is primarily focused on meeting increasing demographic needs. In this context it has not been possible to advance all applications for capital funding concurrently. However, it is my intention that all school building projects, including in particular the project for Holy Rosary College, will continue to be advanced incrementally over time in the context of the funding available. However, in light of current competing demands on the Department's capital budget it is not possible at this time. If additional funds become available, and the increase in demand to which Deputy Connaughton referred in his comments can be sustained and demonstrated, I will certainly examine ensuring that Holy Rosary College moves into a space that would be created if another school project does not go ahead.

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