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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 25 Oct 2012

Vol. 780 No. 3

Order of Business

Eamon Gilmore

The Tánaiste

It is proposed to take No. 13a, motion re statement of Estimates for the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission 2013; and No. 19, statements on the economy (resumed).

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 5.45 p.m. tonight and shall adjourn on the conclusion of Oral Questions; No. 13a shall be decided without debate; the proceedings in relation to No. 19 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 4.30 p.m. today, and the order shall resume thereafter with Topical Issues; and the Dáil on its rising today shall adjourn until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 6 November 2012.

Seán Barrett

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal that the Dáil shall sit later than 5.45 p.m. agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 13a without debate agreed to?

Seán Barrett

An Ceann Comhairle

Only those who represent parties can object to the proposal.

Mary Lou McDonald

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

It is almost scandalous that the Government would wish to push through this Estimate without debate. The Estimate covers all the expenses associated with the operation of the Houses of the Oireachtas, including the salaries of Members and office holders, expenses and allowances. These are the very things that Members of this House examine in respect of other sectors. They pick over the minutiae of such expenses when they relate to gardaí, nurses or teachers.

Derek Nolan

Deputy Derek Nolan

Deputy McDonald did that in the Committee of Public Accounts on Tuesday.

Mary Lou McDonald

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

It is unacceptable that the Estimate is being put through the Dáil on the nod. We need a full debate on remuneration, allowances and expenses as they pertain to us. This the forum for such a debate. We object in the strongest of terms to the taking of this motion without debate.

Derek Nolan

Deputy Derek Nolan

Was the Deputy wasting her time on Tuesday?

Barry Cowen

Deputy Barry Cowen

We reject the proposal to take this motion without debate. It should be fully debated in the interests of transparency and of the public.

Emmet Stagg

Deputy Emmet Stagg

Well done for jumping on the bandwagon.

Barry Cowen

Deputy Barry Cowen

It is only fair and proper that it be debated, irrespective of how many bandwagons my friends to the right jumped from over the past 18 months.

Willie O'Dea

Deputy Willie O'Dea

To the right is right.

Richard Boyd Barrett

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

I object strongly to the proposal to take the motion without debate. Everybody knows that the public is angry about what they are being made to face. They are required to count every cent and they are fearful of what they may lose.

Regina Doherty

Deputy Regina Doherty

What about Deputy Boyd Barrett's leader's allowance?

Bernard Durkan

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

What about his allowances?

Seán Barrett

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Boyd Barrett is entitled to make a short statement on behalf of his party.

Ray Butler

Deputy Ray Butler

He got €142,000.

Seán Barrett

An Ceann Comhairle

Please allow the Deputy to make a statement without interruption.

Richard Boyd Barrett

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

People are fearful about the forthcoming budget and every cent is being scrutinised. Many are living in poverty. It is understandable that the public should demand full transparency and accountability for expenditure relating to this House.

Paul Kehoe

Deputy Paul Kehoe

For fixing the Deputy's car.

Richard Boyd Barrett

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

Independent Deputies have attempted to raise serious issues about expenditure on staff and allowances from which party members can benefit but Independent Members cannot. These issues should be debated and scrutinised in Dáil Éireann in full public view.

Ray Butler

Deputy Ray Butler

That is incredible from someone who received €142,000.

Richard Boyd Barrett

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

Why are expenses not vouched?

Simon Harris

Deputy Simon Harris

Where are the Deputy's receipts?

Stephen Donnelly

Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly

I do not believe this.

Bernard Durkan

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

What did he spend it on?

Stephen Donnelly

Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly

Why are the Deputies opposite so afraid of debate?

Bernard Durkan

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

What did he spend it on? He got enough of it.

Richard Boyd Barrett

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

Why are expenses not vouched?

Stephen Donnelly

Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly

The Deputies opposite keep shouting, but we are the ones calling for a debate on these issues.

Seán Barrett

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask Deputies to stop shouting.

Stephen Donnelly

Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly

We want a debate. Let us have it out in the open.

Ray Butler

Deputy Ray Butler

How much does it cost for the Deputy to get excited?

Paul Kehoe

Deputy Paul Kehoe

His €40,000 could be in danger.

Ray Butler

Deputy Ray Butler

Give it back.

Seán Barrett

An Ceann Comhairle

Please allow the Tánaiste to reply.

Eamon Gilmore

The Tánaiste

I understand this motion is required to be passed by the end of October and this is the last opportunity to do so. I propose that the motion be taken for that reason. However, the Government is agreeable to a debate on the Estimates for the Houses of the Oireachtas. We will arrange through the Whips for that debate to take place at the earliest opportunity.

Willie O'Dea

Deputy Willie O'Dea

After the event.

Timmy Dooley

Deputy Timmy Dooley

A retrospective debate.

Stephen Donnelly

Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly

This is a joke of a parliament.

Eamon Gilmore

The Tánaiste

There is no problem-----

Stephen Donnelly

Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly

How about a debate on the Estimate before it becomes law?

Seán Barrett

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask the Deputy to behave himself and let the Tánaiste speak.

Eamon Gilmore

The Tánaiste

I have no problem holding a debate or taking whatever action is required on foot of that debate. However, this motion has to be passed by the end of October.

Seán Barrett

An Ceann Comhairle

As Chairman of the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission I am glad to report that these matters are scrutinised by the commission, and I have asked that all details be put on the website under every heading so that the public can be aware of everything. The Estimate will show that savings have been made to the value of millions of euro.

Catherine Murphy

Deputy Catherine Murphy

We are not represented on the commission.

Stephen Donnelly

Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly

Neither Sinn Féin nor the Technical Group is represented on the commission.

Paul Kehoe

Deputy Paul Kehoe

If they come back with more seats they might be represented.

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with No. 13a, motion re statement of Estimates for the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission without debate be agreed to".
The Dáil divided: Tá, 66; Níl, 40.

Tá

  • Barry, Tom.
  • Breen, Pat.
  • Broughan, Thomas P.
  • Butler, Ray.
  • Buttimer, Jerry.
  • Byrne, Catherine.
  • Carey, Joe.
  • Coffey, Paudie.
  • Collins, Áine.
  • Conaghan, Michael.
  • Conlan, Seán.
  • Connaughton, Paul J.
  • Conway, Ciara.
  • Coveney, Simon.
  • Creed, Michael.
  • Daly, Jim.
  • Deering, Pat.
  • Doherty, Regina.
  • Donohoe, Paschal.
  • Dowds, Robert.
  • Doyle, Andrew.
  • Durkan, Bernard J.
  • English, Damien.
  • Feighan, Frank.
  • Fitzgerald, Frances.
  • Fitzpatrick, Peter.
  • Flanagan, Charles.
  • Flanagan, Terence.
  • Gilmore, Eamon.
  • Griffin, Brendan.
  • Hannigan, Dominic.
  • Harrington, Noel.
  • Harris, Simon.
  • Hayes, Brian.
  • Heydon, Martin.
  • Howlin, Brendan.
  • Humphreys, Kevin.
  • Keaveney, Colm.
  • Kehoe, Paul.
  • Kelly, Alan.
  • Kenny, Seán.
  • Lawlor, Anthony.
  • Lynch, Ciarán.
  • Lyons, John.
  • McLoughlin, Tony.
  • McNamara, Michael.
  • Maloney, Eamonn.
  • Mathews, Peter.
  • Mitchell O'Connor, Mary.
  • Murphy, Dara.
  • Murphy, Eoghan.
  • Naughten, Denis.
  • Neville, Dan.
  • Nolan, Derek.
  • Ó Ríordáin, Aodhán.
  • O'Donnell, Kieran.
  • O'Mahony, John.
  • Penrose, Willie.
  • Perry, John.
  • Phelan, Ann.
  • Quinn, Ruairí.
  • Reilly, James.
  • Shortall, Róisín.
  • Stagg, Emmet.
  • Tuffy, Joanna.
  • Walsh, Brian.

Níl

  • Adams, Gerry.
  • Boyd Barrett, Richard.
  • Browne, John.
  • Calleary, Dara.
  • Collins, Joan.
  • Collins, Niall.
  • Colreavy, Michael.
  • Cowen, Barry.
  • Daly, Clare.
  • Doherty, Pearse.
  • Donnelly, Stephen S.
  • Dooley, Timmy.
  • Ellis, Dessie.
  • Ferris, Martin.
  • Fleming, Tom.
  • Grealish, Noel.
  • Halligan, John.
  • Healy, Seamus.
  • Healy-Rae, Michael.
  • Kelleher, Billy.
  • Kitt, Michael P.
  • Lowry, Michael.
  • McConalogue, Charlie.
  • McDonald, Mary Lou.
  • McGrath, Mattie.
  • Moynihan, Michael.
  • Murphy, Catherine.
  • Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
  • Ó Cuív, Éamon.
  • Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
  • Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
  • O'Brien, Jonathan.
  • O'Dea, Willie.
  • O'Sullivan, Maureen.
  • Pringle, Thomas.
  • Ross, Shane.
  • Smith, Brendan.
  • Stanley, Brian.
  • Tóibín, Peadar.
  • Wallace, Mick.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Paul Kehoe; Níl, Deputies Aengus Ó Snodaigh and Catherine Murphy.
Question declared .
Seán Barrett

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 19, statements on the economy agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal that the Dáil on its rising today shall adjourn until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 6 November 2012 agreed to? Agreed.

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