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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 8 Nov 2012

Vol. 782 No. 1

Topical Issue Debate

Pigmeat Sector and Poultry Industry

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for the opportunity to raise this important issue, which is particularly relevant to my constituency in view of the loss of 90 jobs following the closure of Co-operative Poultry Products Limited, Cootehill, two weeks ago. This was a major blow to Cootehill and the surrounding areas. Unfortunately, the increased price of feedstuff and the difficulty in obtaining a fair price from the supermarket chains were major contributing factors in the difficulties facing the company. One of the main problems facing the pig and poultry industries is the increasing cost of feedstuff and their inability to secure an increased market price for their product from supermarkets to reflect the increased cost of production.

The issue of primary producers getting a fair price for their product is a long-running matter. The programme for Government contains a specific commitment to enact legislation to regulate certain practices in the grocery goods sector. The Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, intends to give effect to this commitment through legislation, which will allow for the introduction of a statutory code of practice in the grocery goods sector to provide some protection to primary producers. While I appreciate work is under way, it is vital it is treated as a matter of urgency since the entire poultry and pig industries are at risk. I ask the Minister of State for any assistance she can give to progress the matter as quickly as possible.

It is clear that, over recent years, the retail industry has been controlled by a very small number of multinationals. They are creaming off an unjust percentage of the retail price and using cheap poultry and pigmeat as loss leaders. Other issues of great concern are the level of cheap imports, which is killing the Irish trade, and the amount of loose chicken being imported from countries such as Brazil and Thailand which is available on butcher and supermarket counters.

I put down a parliamentary question some months ago and it was alarming to discover that poultry meat imports into Ireland have increased from 49,133 tonnes in 2002 to 85,361 tonnes in 2011. This is an increase of 74% in the amount of poultry meat imported into Ireland. Imports from Brazil have increased from 1,165 tonnes in 2002 to 4,022 tonnes in 2011, an increase of 245%. Imports from Thailand show an increase of 472% from 1,227 tonnes to 7,029 tonnes in 2011.

Speaking as a housewife who does look at the country of origin when doing my weekly shopping, I never see any labels that say produced in either Brazil or Thailand. We need to address this issue so Irish consumers know exactly what they are eating and where the food is coming from. Can the Minister guarantee that the chickens produced in Brazil or Thailand are produced under the same strict guidelines as those produced in Ireland, and is the slaughter line manned by veterinary staff as happens in Ireland?

There is a huge amount of imported chicken going into the catering industry, and the Irish consumer is unaware of this fact. Unless it clearly states it is Irish produce most of the chicken we are consuming in restaurants, in fast food outlets, and sourcing from butchers is not Irish, and consumers are not aware of this.

The issue of labelling needs to be urgently addressed and the following information should be provided on all chicken and pork products that appear on Irish supermarket shelves: the name of the country where the animal or chicken is born; the name of country where it is reared or fattened; and the name of country where it is slaughtered. We need urgently to pass legislation on country of origin labelling that will allow the consumer to make an informed choice when purchasing meats. We also need to ensure the catering industry provides information to customers on where the meat they are consuming is being sourced.

I thank Deputy Humphreys for raising this issue. I am taking this matter on behalf of the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Simon Coveney. I will convey to him the issues raised by the Deputy. The issue of labelling is of particular concern to her.

The Minister is aware of the importance of the pigmeat and poultry sectors to the Irish economy. Together, these sectors have a farm gate value of almost €500 million and support over 13,000 jobs directly and in ancillary services. These sectors account for more than 70% of the meat consumed in Ireland and have a presence in all areas of the country.

The Minister and his Department are also aware of the concerns currently being expressed by the sector, particularly with regard to feed costs. High costs, most notably for cereals and compound feed, remain an issue. Producers are especially affected by the increase in cereal prices since June 2009, given that cereals account for approximately 70% of feed.

Market prices for cereal-based animal feed and soya are a function of global supply and demand dynamics, currency relativities, weather conditions and other external factors.

Increasing feed prices in 2012 have arisen, primarily due to poor weather conditions in the USA, Brazil, Argentina, Russia and the Ukraine. The expected shortage in cereals comes on top of relatively poor harvests in recent years, a growing world population and a rising middle class in China. Thus there is a rising demand for animal feed and animal feed-based products at a time when supplies are short. Given that Ireland imports much of the feed used in both the pigmeat and poultry sectors, the impact of price increases in these commodities is acute in these sectors.

Against this background, producers have in recent years taken measures to increase feed efficiency and output per unit. Furthermore, while input costs have increased significantly in recent years, the returns available to producers have also risen sharply. This has helped ameliorate the situation to some extent.

At the end of October, pigmeat prices were almost 24 cent per kilo ahead, year on year, which equates to an increase of more than 16%. Compared to the same week in 2010, per kilo prices have risen by over 40 cent per kilo, or almost 31%. The forecast decline in the European sow population and consequent lower production and ongoing high demand for European pigmeat internationally should lead to even higher prices in the coming months.

The production model in the poultry meat sector in Ireland is quite different from that in the pigmeat sector, with a high degree of vertical integration between processors, who supply stock, feed and other inputs, and growers, who typically provide housing and capital equipment and who rear the stock to slaughter age. In this sector the prices paid to growers depend on contractual arrangements with the processors. EU market statistics published last month suggest that broiler prices across the EU are marginally higher than in 2011, while CSO statistics for July suggest that output prices are 20.6% higher than last year.

The Deputy will be aware that, due to Ireland's membership of the Single Market, unilateral actions or interventions to support individual sectors is not permitted. For his part, however, the Minister and his officials will continue to press the European Commission to make use of all the available market supports when circumstances require it, to ameliorate the worst effects of price volatility. Indeed, the aids to private storage scheme introduced for pigmeat in 2011 played a significant role in putting a floor under pigmeat prices at that time. This, together with release of cereal stocks from intervention, improved the situation somewhat at that time.

In the context of CAP post 2013, the Minister will continue to press for the retention of flexible market support schemes which can be deployed as a safety net when circumstances require, with a view to ameliorating the worst effects of price volatility.

Domestically, a number of initiatives have been explored and developed. For example, Teagasc, through its Moorepark pig research facility and the provision of FETAC courses in pig production and benchmarking pig herd performance, plays a critically important role in improving productive capacity at farm level. Teagasc has also circulated producers with a number of the options available to them to reduce feed costs and improve feed efficiency.

The Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine and its agencies have supported both the pigmeat and poultry sectors through the provision of capital investment grants to assist in compliance with welfare regulations, through Bord Bia's promotional campaigns and through the development and operation of the Bord Bia Pigmeat and Poultry Quality Assurance Programmes, PQAS, which are a critical component in consolidating the position of Irish product on the domestic market.

With regard to upcoming animal welfare changes in the pig sector, the Department introduced a targeted agricultural modernisation scheme, TAMS, for sow welfare in June 2010. Grant aid is available at a rate of 40% to eligible producers. The provisions of the scheme were modified earlier this year to allow multiple applications from pig farmers with more than one sow house, together with an increase in the ceiling to €500,000 for the first house and €300,000 for each of the next three. Furthermore, in order to ensure that as many pig producers as possible would be in a position to comply with the new EU animal welfare rules, the Minister extended the closing date for applications to the end of January 2013. All applications received during the period of this extension would now be included in a new final tranche for which a sum of €3 million has been made available. The final date for completion of work and the lodgment of payment claims is 30 September 2013. This will bring to €16 million the funding made available to pig producers under the sow welfare scheme.

In the poultry sector, the Department also operated a scheme to assist egg producers in complying with the conversion to enriched cage production systems in 2011. A total of €16 million was made available and a subsequent Food and Veterinary Office, FVO, audit in February of this year confirmed that Ireland had complied fully with the requirements.

In so far as international trade is concerned, the Minister has been extremely active in developing relationships in new and expanding markets in order to build the kind of confidence in Irish production and control systems that provide a platform for long term trading relationships in the future. During his trade mission to China earlier this year, the Minister raised the issue of market access for both pigmeat and poultry, and hopes that this engagement will ultimately deliver a considerable return for the Irish pig and poultry sectors.

I thank the Minister of State for her response. I note that she says the Minister is aware of the concerns I have raised. I am glad to hear that.

What the pig and poultry producers are looking for is support, not necessarily financial support, from the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine.

I want to reinforce the lack of information that we have on imported poultry and pigmeat. As an example, we have no idea what percentage of meals provided in publicly funded places such as hospitals, prisons, Army barracks, Government Departments or, indeed, in this House are of Irish or imported origin. We need an assurance that the produce we eat is Irish.

The true potential of the poultry and pork industry is not being fully realised and in order for these two industries to play their part in meeting Harvest 2020 targets they need to be supported and given the same opportunities as the beef, lamb and dairy industries.

The poultry sector has requested assistance from the Minister in setting up a poultry council so that all stakeholders can work together for the benefit of the industry. I ask the minister to facilitate this.

The difficulties facing the pig and poultry industry are serious.

If this is not treated as an urgent matter, we are going to find ourselves in a serious situation where the future of these industries will be under threat, which will have a hugely negative impact, particularly on the Cavan-Monaghan area, which has a high percentage of pig and poultry farmers. I ask the Minister of State to convey that to the Minister.

I will convey that to the Minister. I have outlined some of the supports the Minister has provided, particularly on two issues, the poultry council and labelling. We all want to be aware that what we purchase and eat is Irish and is not labelled misleadingly. The Government wants to do everything it can to clarify this so I will pass on the Deputy's concerns to the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine.

We will now move to the third topical issue from Deputy Brendan Ryan. We agreed at the outset that because the Minister of State, Deputy O'Sullivan, is replying to the first and third issues, we would take them in that order.

I am answering the second issue.

Then we will revert to the original order.

The lady Minister was going great.

I will be back for the third issue, Mattie.

Tourism Promotion

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this item for debate and I thank the Minister of State for attending.

This is a critical issue for the tourism industry in the midlands. I have highlighted this to find out why the midlands has been excluded from the second biggest overseas market. It is said there are 44 million people in the US who claim Irish ancestry. In 2012, the advertisement that was run in the United States vacation planner published by Tourism Ireland and distributed throughout the USA, with a circulation of 175,000, made no reference to the midlands. The map that was published left the midlands completely blank and indicated tourists coming to Ireland could tour from Dublin to Dublin along the coastline in ten days doing 122 miles per day. In the advertising material in the same publication in 2010, three pages were dedicated to the midlands that highlighted the mix of amenities we have to offer, from Mullingar to Athlone, Longford, Enniskillen, Roscommon, Carrick-on-Shannon and Tullamore. It is not just an issue affecting my constituency; it affects the entire midlands region.

The only advertisement run in the 2012 publication was organised by Belvedere House and Gardens itself, with the tag line "Your President did it, you can too.", making a play on the fact President Obama visited the midlands when he came to Ireland in 2011. When we talk about the Government's jobs strategy, tourism has been highlighted as a central plank of the strategy, and the statistics used by Fáilte Ireland for The Gathering suggest that for every 70 overseas visitors who come to Ireland, a job is created. Why, then, did the Government let Tourism Ireland leave the midlands blank when advertising in the second biggest market?

The midlands has plenty to offer any tourist. In my constituency, Westmeath County Council developed Belvedere House and Gardens at a cost of more than €10 million. Athlone Castle was recently renovated. There is the Hill of Uisneach, Kilbeggan distillery, one of the largest whiskey distilleries in the world, Kilbeggan race course, the Royal Canal, the Grand Canal, the River Shannon, huge numbers of lakes and Abbeyshrule, just down the road from my own home, which is the tidiest town in Ireland. Tourism Ireland, however, has still chosen to leave the midlands out of its advertising in the United States.

It is very disappointing the Government has let this happen and shows its neglect of the midlands. Last night, I had the pleasure of attending the launch of mullingar.ie. This initiative was developed by a number of prominent business people and community activists in Mullingar, supported by Westmeath County Council, the county enterprise board, Leader, the Chamber of Commerce and Celtic Media, the group that owns the Westmeath Examiner. They have designed a website to promote Mullingar and to show all there is to offer. International stars Niall Horan of One Direction and Niall Breslin come from Mullingar, as did the late, great Joe Dolan. The members of this group are doing it for themselves, they are not relying on the Government to market them.

Why in 2012 were the midlands omitted from Tourism Ireland marketing in the United States? It is not the Minister of State's responsibility but I want a clear commitment in the House that this will not be repeated in 2013. The midlands have plenty to offer and I want to ensure we get an equal amount of advertising by Tourism Ireland.

I am replying to this topical issue on behalf of the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, who unfortunately cannot be in the Chamber this evening.

In so far as this issue relates to advertising by Tourism Ireland, the matter raised is purely operational for the agency concerned. The Minister has no role in day-to-day matters such as the content or design of advertising by either Tourism Ireland or indeed the tourism industry.

Tourism Ireland is the all-island tourism marketing company established under the Good Friday Agreement by the then Bord Fáilte and the Northern Ireland Tourist Board. Its memorandum and articles of association govern its operations and it is accountable to its board and, at policy level, to the North-South Ministerial Council established under the Good Friday Agreement. The company has responsibility for all-Ireland destination marketing, the tourism brand Ireland, the delivery of regional and product marketing and promotion activity on behalf of Fáilte Ireland and the NITB, and the overseas office network. It receives funding both from my Department and the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment in Northern Ireland.

As a North-South body, Tourism Ireland operates under a business plan which is approved by the North-South Ministerial Council. Day to day decisions are made within the context of that business plan. While an annual business plan is agreed by the NSMC, the plan simply gives a broad overview of strategy and targets for the year. Ministers have no role in terms of deciding the details for material used in the overall promotion of the island. Not only would it be impractical to have such a hands-on role, it would also be highly inappropriate to have involvement in such decision making. I do not claim to have any expertise in the business of advertising and marketing but it is my job to protect the interests of the taxpayer by ensuring that such material is what is most effective in driving business, rather than what is reflective of local interests.

With regard to the specific issue raised by the Deputy, I am informed that Tourism Ireland does promote the midlands as part of its extensive global destination marketing programme in the US and in other key markets overseas. In this regard, some recent activity in the US has included in April Tourism Ireland targeting 2 million potential US visitors in key gateway cities with a promotion on the lakelands region, which included a video on President Obama's visit to Moneygall. Tourism Ireland also invites key US media and trade contacts to visit Ireland and the midlands region to experience at first hand the wealth of things to see and do here for American holidaymakers. In September, representatives of top-producing American travel companies visited Ireland to attend a workshop with over 120 tourism providers, including many representatives of the midlands region. Their itinerary while here included a visit to Clonmacnoise in County Offaly and Castle Durrow in County Laois.

More generally, it is important to note that Tourism Ireland's current advertising campaigns in the United States, Jump into Ireland and The Gathering Ireland 2013, are not geographically specific but feature aspects of Irish tourism products, activities and attractions which research has shown appeal to US visitors.

In a long-haul and large market such as the US, it is clearly Ireland that is to be promoted as a destination and attempting to promote smaller regions on a stand-alone basis would be counter-productive. It should also be noted that US visitors to Ireland are very region-friendly and visit several areas, including the midlands and particularly on CIE tours, during their visits which, on average, last for approximately nine days.

In terms of future priorities, obviously our main focus will be on The Gathering Ireland 2013. The event will be the biggest tourism initiative ever staged in Ireland and will consist of a year-long programme of festivals, events and other gatherings in every region of the country. The aim is to bring an additional 325,000 overseas visitors to Ireland. The Gathering 2013 is targeted at people living abroad with a connection to Ireland, whether through birth, ancestry, family connections, friendships, business, education or personal interest as well as at those who simply are curious about Ireland. Tourism Ireland is actively promoting The Gathering in our main overseas markets and I am aware that the midlands region has a number of planned gatherings next year which will be included.

Obviously the US market generally remains critical to Irish tourism. Visitors from this market continue to stay longer and spend more than the average overseas visitor to Ireland. Fortunately, we have performed strongly in terms of visits from North America recently. Last year alone we had more than 1 million visits from North America which was an increase of 8.1% on 2010 while figures for the first nine months of this year show a further slight increase of 0.6 % compared with the corresponding period in 2011. Tourism Ireland recently undertook a wide-ranging review of the market and it has set the ambitious target of achieving further growth of over 20% in visits from the US by the end of 2015. I have no doubt that all areas of Ireland, including the midlands, will benefit from such growth. I am quite certain Deputy Troy will be welcoming all these US visitors to the midlands. I look forward to continuing close co-operation between the tourism agencies and all tourism stakeholders to ensure these ambitious targets are met, which no doubt they will.

The Minister of State said that operational matters are matters for the agency, and I agree. Now that we have highlighted a specific issue, however, I want the Minister of State to intervene to ensure there is a level playing pitch and every part of Ireland gets equal marketing. Everyone knows that parts of the country are getting preferential treatment in terms of marketing and attracting foreign visitors, which is unfair. The midlands has plenty to offer, including the Royal Canal, Grand Canal, River Shannon, the lakes and many other amenities such as Belvedere House and gardens, all of which I have highlighted. I want the Minister of State to give a commitment that either he or the Minister will raise this issue with Tourism Ireland to ensure the midlands gets fair treatment. I have a copy of the advertisement showing an entire section of Ireland was left without marketing. It was just blank, as if the midlands were a desert island.

The Minister of State mentioned The Gathering and many good projects in the midlands are in the offing, but they are all community driven. Last night in Mullingar the community led in launching www.mullingar.ie to show what we have to offer in that provincial town in Westmeath. I want the Minister of State to give a commitment that he will speak to the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport to ensure the midlands - a broad region encompassing more than just my constituency - will get fair play in terms of advertising in 2013 because we have not got it in 2012. In the equivalent publication in 2010, we got three pages but nothing in 2012, which is unfair and needs to be addressed.

I believe last night's event was funded by State agencies. The Deputy mentioned Enterprise Ireland, county councils and Leader, all of which are funded by the State. They are obviously very actively involved with Mullingar which is a very important initiative to launch. They will be funded by State agencies as well. It is very much driven by the community and is about public private partnership, which is how tourism should be.

The Deputy is talking about one piece of literature and I have no doubt that does not represent what was stated in the reply. Nobody is excluding the midlands in any sense. There is a video with President Obama which is being actively promoted in the US. The North-South body, Tourism Ireland, has a job to do and it is not appropriate for the Minister, as he correctly said, to intervene in a region. However, the entire island of Ireland will be actively promoted. The Deputy has cited one piece of literature he has seen, but it is not reflective of Fáilte Ireland in any sense in the promotion of the region. It is very much actively promoted.

When people come here from the US on a nine day trip, it does not mean they just go to Dublin and Cork and do not go up through the midlands. From my experience, people tour the country. They have destination stops all over the region. It is unfair to say people do not visit the middle of the country - Athlone and the surrounding regions. That would be a long stretch of the imagination and I do not believe that is the case. There are significant attractions there and no doubt people are visiting the region. There was huge promotion with President Obama coast to coast in the US. It is being used by Fáilte Ireland in the US at the moment. The Gathering represents an opportunity for everybody to get involved.

The Minister has delegated to Tourism Ireland the function of branding Ireland as a place to come. Last year 1 million visitors came from the US alone and next year there is an expectation of increasing visitor numbers by 325,000. I have no doubt that State agencies and the private sector will play a role in promoting the region. I have no doubt the tourism body in the region is very actively involved. I am quite certain the transcript of this debate will be going to Fáilte Ireland as well. Clearly, there is only one piece of literature to which the Deputy referred in which he felt there was an omission. By and large that would not be the mindset of Fáilte Ireland. That is only one publication. I have cited many other-----

It is the main publication for vacations in America.

The Deputy stated that there was no intention to promote the vast region in the middle of the country. That is not the case.

And it will not happen next year. I thank the Minister of State.

Coastal Erosion

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for allowing me to speak on this most important matter in the House today. I have been pushing strongly to get this matter discussed and I welcome the opportunity given to me today.

The issue of coastal erosion in the Burrow, Portrane, in north Country Dublin, is not something new. The sea has threatened and eroded the area for decades, but it is the increased pace and severity of this erosion in recent times which makes this a critical and most topical of issues at this time. Two weeks ago 6 m to 7 m of sand dunes were washed away in one night. As a result of this, according to Fingal County Council, there are now only 17 m between some houses and the eroding sand dune edge.

The Burrow is an area of the Portrane peninsula composed of houses and businesses flanked by dunes and estuary foreshore. It is bounded by the Rogerstown Estuary to the north and west, to the east by the Burrow beach and to the south by the urban area of Portrane village. Many people have homes in the Burrow, with most in immediate proximity to the Burrow dunes and beach. It is these homes and some businesses which are in need of urgent help before they are swept away. It is getting that critical. I grew up close to the area affected and, having lived there for many years, have seen the erosion over time.

This is not a new issue, nor could it be as coastal erosion is a natural occurrence. However, this should not be an excuse for not addressing what are very real concerns for the many people who live in the Burrow and who are witnessing the tides coming closer and closer to their homes. The immediate situation needs to be addressed urgently and long-term preventative measures need to be found and implemented. I ask the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, along with the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, if funding can be urgently allocated and works carried out by the Office of Public Works and-or other relevant bodies to protect the citizens of the Burrow in Portrane.

The residents of this area have expressed their concerns for years but they feel they are being ignored. They also feel it will take a number of houses to be swept away before their concerns are taken seriously. Their concerns have obviously been heightened with the extreme erosion that took place in October coupled with the fact that high tides are forecast for November and December. I ask that immediate attention be given to the area of the coastline damaged two weeks ago and that all necessary repair works take place without delay.

I ask that this issue be addressed as a matter of great urgency and that long-term, realistic and sustainable measures be identified and implemented without delay.

I am aware that there may be concerns regarding the possible impact of work undertaken in one coastal location on adjacent locations. However, this cannot be used as a reason to conclude that nothing that can be done. The residents, businesses and public buildings in Portrane must not be left at risk of continued extreme erosion. All stakeholders, Government and local authorities, must approach this in an inclusive and holistic manner to ensure best outcomes for the residents of The Burrow in Portrane and recognise that the short and long-term protection of their homes and businesses is at stake.

I thank Deputy Ryan for raising this serious issue. I can assure him that the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government and I wish to assist in whatever we can. I would first like to clarify the role of the Office of Public Works, Fingal County Council and the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government. I note the Deputy's reference to other Departments and the need for a co-ordinated response to this matter.

Overall responsibility for coastal protection rests with the Office of Public Works. However, management of the situation in Portrane, County Dublin, referred to by the Deputy, is first and foremost a matter for Fingal County Council, which is the local authority for the area. In September 2004, the OPW assumed the role as lead agency for flood risk management in the State. This involves co-ordinating the national flood risk management direction and the actions and activities of Departments, local authorities and other key stakeholders. The OPW also has powers to implement works to reduce the risk of flooding in coastal areas. Local authorities also have such powers directly under the Local Government Acts. The Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government does not, therefore, have any direct role in this matter and is only responsible for the granting of any foreshore lease or licence that may be required to facilitate work at the site. The carrying out of an assessment of the situation in Portrane is a matter for the local authority, which in this instance is Fingal County Council.

I have been advised by the OPW that in 2009 it received an application, under its minor flood mitigation works and coastal protection scheme, for funding of €60,000 for a coastal monitoring programme at Portrane and Rush beaches and that the application was not approved as it did not meet the scheme's criteria. However, it is still open to Fingal County Council to submit a fresh application under the scheme for measures to address erosion problems at Portrane. Any application received will be considered by the OPW in accordance with the scheme of eligibility criteria, which include a requirement that any measures are cost beneficial and have regard to the overall availability of resources for flood risk management. Application forms and related guidelines are available on the OPW website.

As I have already said, my role in cases such as this relates to consideration of foreshore consent applications should any works be proposed for the foreshore. On this specific matter, an application was made by Fingal County Council for consent under the Foreshore Act 1933 to construct a flood defence system at Burrow beach, Portrane, to protect houses located on Claremount Road. These works consisted of two elements, namely, removal of sand from a beach situated in the Baldoyle Bay special area of conservation, SAC, and the use of that sand to build sandbag flood defences. Following a review of the application by my specialist advisers, significant additional information was requested from Fingal County Council, including adequate mapping to clarify whether the proposed flood defences were located on State-owned foreshore and an environmental appraisal report on the potential effects of the proposed removal of sand from the special area of conservation. In order to strengthen this report, the council was advised to enter into direct consultations with the National Parks and Wildlife Service. The council is also investigating the option of sourcing sand from an inland site negating the need for disturbance of the special area of conservation. The matter currently rests with the council to clarify whether the proposed works are located on State foreshore and whether sand will be removed from the special area of conservation.

We are not sure if a foreshore licence will be required. It is for this reason the mapping has been sought from Fingal County Council. If the sand can be removed from a location other than the special area of conservation, it would be easier for the work to be carried out. I acknowledge that this is a serious issue and thank the Deputy for raising it today.

I thank the Minister of State for her reply. Unfortunately, however, she has no responsibility in relation to this matter. Also, the latter part of the Minister of State's reply relates to Baldoyle rather than Portrane or Rush. I would ask that it be revised.

The Minister of State also indicated in her reply that primary responsibility for this matter rests with Fingal County Council, which I understand. This matter comes within the remit of a number of Departments. I am interested in hearing the response of the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine in the context of its responsibility in this area.

I appreciate that coastal erosion can be a complex issue and that when dealing with a naturally occurring phenomenon we can be presented with many challenges. I also appreciate the difficulties that all Departments, including the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, face when allocating funds. However, I strongly suggest that not addressing this issue immediately will result in further costs in the future. This is an issue that is not going to go away. As I stated, erosion is a natural occurrence and will continue if not addressed. As was demonstrated in October, it can become more aggressive without any notice.

The works previously undertaken to safeguard the sand dunes on this coastline were done in good faith and with the best intentions but they were not long-term solutions. A comprehensive and possibly cross-departmental approach is required to provide the best possible protection for this area of coastline. We need to ensure that all possible solutions are given consideration and that a long-term solution is put in place.

The people of Portrane are not just concerned, they are worried and extremely anxious. They are witnessing the ongoing erosion of their coastline and can visibly see the dangers that they face. They cannot solve this problem themselves and need the help of the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government and Fingal County Council to do so. We cannot wait until homes disappear into the sea before addressing this issue.

The Deputy is over time and must conclude.

We cannot allow this situation to develop to a point of a catastrophic emergency. This is a very serious matter which needs urgent attention.

While I acknowledge that the Minister of State is not in a position to give the following commitment, I ask that the Minister, as part of the process of finding a solution, agree to his officials, in conjunction with officials from Fingal County Council, meeting representatives of the residents and businesses of the Burrow to discuss their very serious concerns.

Perhaps as the Minister of State is standing in for the Minister she might take a chance and give that commitment on his behalf.

The Deputy stated earlier that he is primarily addressing this issue to the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine. I will convey his concerns to the Minister, Deputy Coveney.

By way of clarification, I am responsible for foreshore licence applications. There is a specific application for a foreshore licence to construct a flood defence system at Burrow beach in Portrane. On the sand issue, while the sand would come from Baldoyle Bay it would be used at Burrow beach Portrane, which is somewhat relevant. The mapping information requested is specifically to clarify whether a foreshore licence is required to undertake that specific work. While the Deputy may be speaking of a bigger area, the latter part of my reply is relevant in that regard.

I appreciate that this is a cross-departmental matter. I take on board the Deputy's request for a cross-departmental response on this matter. I realise it is a serious issue and that it has been raised on a number of occasions by Deputy Ryan. It is important this issue is addressed for residents. It is also important Fingal County Council responds to the queries raised by the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government in regard to mapping of the area. It is hoped that response will be received as soon as possible. We all want to ensure a response to this issue which is very worrying for residents in the area.

Hospital Services

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this topical issue for debate this evening. I note that requests tabled by other colleagues to raise similar issues have been withdrawn as they hope to have a meeting with the Minister. I hope we will make progress on this issue.

I take this opportunity to express my distaste and concern that the Ceann Comhairle refused a Special Notice Question today from the Technical Group regarding this morning's decision by the Supreme Court.

This is very unfair and unwise. We could have debated it and introduced legislation tomorrow if necessary to defer the referendum.

I am delighted the Minister for Health is in the House to take the question. If something is not broken one should not fix it. Dublin has a population of 1.2 million people and has ten hospitals. The south-east region, which I represent along with other Deputies and Senators who are present, has a population of 500,000 and only four hospitals. We bought into the idea that Waterford Regional Hospital would be one of the eight centres of excellence. We did not like the fact that South Tipperary General Hospital in Clonmel lost services but we allowed them to go on the grounds there would be specialties in Waterford such as cancer care. We all made a deal and we are happy with it. We support each other.

We cannot now have a different situation because of the Higgins report or the ideas of some geniuses in Kilkenny that they want to link up with St James's Hospital in Dublin. We want to protect our regional status. We have a population of 500,000 people, and the Minister can give all the reasons he likes but we are told this is the magical number required for a regional hospital. We also have the ambulance service required to transport people. Consultants, patients, doctors and nurses have all bought into the idea. It would also be a major blow to the economy of the south-east region which we cannot afford. The south-east region has lost much and we cannot afford to lose this. It is a matter of life and death. We must keep the hospital as it is.

Deputy Halligan also tabled a topical issue and on his behalf I wish to say we want to have a system of honour. The agreements made with Waterford Regional Hospital on the transfer of services should be kept. Consultants or others should not smash and grab services from South Tipperary General Hospital. I appeal to the Minister to leave the system alone. He has enough problems to deal with. We have a perfect working system in Waterford and we go there for specialist treatment. We need to be left alone. We must have confidence in the service. This was the model held up and proclaimed throughout the country. I ask the Minister to leave it alone. It is not broken so he should not fix it.

It has been widely reported in recent days that the report by Professor Higgins into the number and composition of the new hospital groups and their relationship to the university sector will result in an effective downgrading of Waterford Regional Hospital and the relocation of vital services to already under pressure hospitals in Cork and Dublin. This news has been met with outrage and consternation by the entire community in Waterford and the Minister needs to understand the potential medical and economic implications of this move for the people in the wider south-east region. The clinical director of Waterford Regional Hospital, Rob Landers, has said the removal of vital cancer, neurology and cardiology services from Waterford would have a devastating effect and understandably so. In the context of these reports I must ask the Minister to confirm whether the Higgins report recommends as reported the downgrading of Waterford Regional Hospital and the reconfiguration of services in the region with specialties currently available at Waterford relocated to hospitals outside the south-east region. I hope the Minister will be able to scotch these reports.

Those living and working in the area need clarification. I note a number of Deputies from the constituencies affected in the Chamber. Does the Minister agree the notion of splitting up an existing network, which I must acknowledge is one of the best performing in the State, makes little sense? Will the Minister outline how he intends to proceed with Professor Higgins's report? When is it due to be presented to the Government? Will the Minister facilitate a period of consultation to allow the stakeholders see the recommendations and respond appropriately?

A key stepping stone towards the introduction of universal health insurance will be to develop independent not-for-profit hospital trusts in which all hospitals will function as part of integrated groups. The rationale behind the establishment of hospital groups and trusts is to support increased operational autonomy and accountability for hospital services in a way that will drive service reforms and provide the maximum possible benefit to patients. To assist the Department in advising the Government on the formation of hospital groups, in June this year I appointed Professor John Higgins to chair a strategic board on the establishment of hospital groups. The strategic board is composed of representatives with national and international expertise in health service delivery, governance and linkages with academic institutions.

A project team was established to make recommendations on the composition of hospital groups, governance arrangements, current management frameworks and linkages to academic institutions for the consideration of the strategic board. The consultation process to inform the project team has been rigorous and comprehensive. It has included meetings with every acute hospital, including consultations on two separate occasions with each hospital in the south-east region. It has involved the receipt of a significant volume of formal submissions from hospitals, clinicians, regulatory bodies and citizens, all of which have been considered.

I have also made clear to the project team and to the board my determination to ensure that as many services as possible can be provided safely and appropriately in smaller, local hospitals. On this basis, the organisation of hospital services nationally, regionally and locally will be informed by the ongoing development of the HSE clinical programmes and by the smaller hospitals framework. This framework defines the role of the smaller hospitals. It outlines the need for smaller hospitals and larger hospitals to operate together and therefore is intrinsically linked to the ongoing work regarding the development of hospital groups.

The work on hospital groups is not about downgrading hospitals. It is about bringing together groups of hospitals into single cohesive entities to allow maximum flexibility in management, budgets and service delivery. It is about ensuring that hospital groups are broadly comparable in size and scope so they can attract high quality staff and trainees across all health care specialties and professions. It is about creating efficiencies by using common business processes and economies of scale and avoiding unnecessary duplication. Most importantly of all, it is about maximising the range of services available to deliver internationally comparable quality care for patients, regardless of where they live.

I hope to receive the report of the strategic board on the establishment of hospital groups later this month and that I will be able to bring this matter to my Cabinet colleagues for decision shortly thereafter. It should be remembered that the hospital groups are an interim collaborative measure pending the legislation required to establish hospital trusts. Before the trusts are established, the composition and functioning of the groups will be reviewed and if changes prove necessary then they will be made with Government approval when the hospital trusts are being formed.

I am not at all reassured by the Minister's statement. We have gone down this road. We have reconfigured, and Waterford Regional Hospital is the regional cancer care hospital. I get worried when I see professors drawing up reports and discussing further reconfiguration and change. The public must have faith and trust in the system. The people of South Tipperary bought into it as did the people of Kilkenny, Carlow and Wexford. We have an excellent service so why break it? We do not need any more reconfiguration. We reluctantly accepted this but we have reconfigured. We have excellent services in Waterford Regional Hospital and in the smaller hospitals such as the one in Clonmel which I represent. The system is working fine and people are reassured they have a 90 minute window of opportunity to get from a smaller hospital to the regional hospital. The Minister did not answer my question as to how 1.2 million people in Dublin have ten hospitals while we are expected to have only four. Now we are facing a situation whereby Waterford Regional Hospital might be downgraded to a district hospital. It is not at all clear. I hope when my colleagues meet the Minister that he will listen to them and engage with the elected representatives rather than with professors doing reports and reconfiguration by faceless officials.

I am disappointed that in the Minister's reply he did nothing to allay the real and current fears and this is regrettable. I do not know what has given rise to the reports, but the concern is none the less sincere across the board. I note from the information available to me that four of the five hospitals in the region are in support of maintaining the current configuration. From all that I am aware of with regard to the situation in Waterford Regional Hospital and the current grouping it is, as I already put on record, if not the best performing then certainly one of the best performing in the State. I appeal to the Minister because I do not want to feed ill-founded concerns and all that will spill from them.

The reason for my raising this matter is, as I indicated in my opening question, to scotch the fears on the basis of what the Minister knows. This is important. I appeal to the Minister to take on board what I have said and the validly held concerns. The attendance in the Chamber of Deputies and Senators from across the region indicates shared concern and anxiety over the future. I urge the Minister to avail of the opportunity that presents itself.

I too acknowledge the presence of Deputy Paudie Coffey and Senator Cummins, who is in the Gallery. They are clearly very concerned.

And Senator Cullinane, who is also observing from behind the Minister.

The Deputy had his moment to speak and in which to acknowledge his colleagues, if he so desired. I recognise that Deputies Conway, Ann Phelan and John Paul Phelan are present. There is concern in the south east owing to difficulties associated with the configuration there. There are associations elsewhere in the country that do not seem to create difficulties. In other words, as one person put it, there seem to be marriages made in heaven that people seem to be very happy to allow to proceed.

In my original answer, I stated this is a grouping exercise. It is not a question of the trusts. If they do not work out, we will have the opportunity to carry out a review before we finalise any trust legislation. It is not fair to say that these provisions will be set in stone. However, it would be very wrong of me to pre-empt the outcome of the report. I have not seen it, I acknowledge there are concerns and that some hospitals within the south east have different views. We must bring people together or let them part, depending on evolving circumstances.

While I cannot pre-empt the content of the report, I take on board the concerns of the people in Waterford. They, including Deputy Deasy, who is not present, have made representations to me. Equally, the Deputies from Wexford are concerned. All these agendas are different. The Members reflect the worries and concerns of the people who elected them and this must be taken into consideration. We will continue to listen and I hope there will be a resolution that will serve everybody's purpose and, most important, the needs of patients.

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