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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 20 Nov 2012

Vol. 783 No. 2

Order of Business

It is proposed to take No. 12, motion re leave to introduce Supplementary Estimates [Votes 12, 20, 22, 31 and 32]; No. 13, motion re referral of Supplementary Estimates [Vote 12, 20, 22, 31 and 32] to select committee or select sub-committee; No. 14, Credit Union Bill 2012 – Financial Resolution; No. 19, National Vetting Bureau (Children and Vulnerable Persons) Bill 2012 - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; and No. 6, Electoral (Amendment) (Dáil Constituencies) Bill 2012 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: in the event a division is in progress at the time fixed for taking Private Members' business, which shall be No. 79, motion re Supreme Court ruling in the X case, the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m., Standing Order 121(3) shall not apply, and Private Members’ business shall, if not previously concluded, adjourn after 90 minutes; and Nos. 12, 14 and, subject to the agreement of No. 12, No. 13, referral to select committee or select sub-committee, shall be decided without debate and any divisions demanded on Nos. 12 and 13 shall be taken forthwith.

There are two proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with Private Members' business agreed to? Agreed.

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 12, motion re leave to introduce Supplementary Estimates [Votes 12, 20, 22, 31 and 32]; No. 13, motion re referral of Supplementary Estimates [Vote 12, 20, 22, 31 and 32] to select committee or select sub-committee; and No. 14, Credit Union Bill 2012 – Financial Resolution, without debate, agreed to? Agreed.

We have heard the announcement of a challenge to the outcome of the referendum on children's rights to the Supreme Court, given the Government's failure to present materials objectively and in accordance with the McKenna judgment, and the decision of the Supreme Court essentially to make that ruling. What does the Taoiseach believe the impact of the challenge to the constitutionality of the referendum result will be on the legislative programme that flows from the passing of the referendum? There are two Bills on the A list, the children Bill and the family support Bill, as well as the Bill on adoption. The Children First legislation may not be dependent on that, but can the Taoiseach indicate if there will be any impact on the progression of those Bills as detailed on the A list?

I ask the Taoiseach for time to be made available in plenary session for the House to debate the escalating situation in Gaza. People are genuinely shocked at the impact on the civilian population in Gaza that we saw on our television screens yesterday. There should be a debate in the House on that matter with the Minister for Foreign Affairs issuing a statement to the House. Others will be in a position to contribute to the debate also.

The Whips will discuss the second issue at their meeting. I do not see why not. This is an issue that will be raised at the European Council in any event.

On 19 November, the Chief State Solicitor's office received a notice that an ex parte application had been made that afternoon for leave, pursuant to the Referendum Act 1994, to present a petition questioning the provisional referendum certificate. Solicitors acting on behalf of the putative petitioners advised that the High Court had accepted the application as having been made within the relevant statutory period. They put it back to be heard on Tuesday, 27 November 2012. Further documentation relating to this application and the order made by the court are awaited by the Chief State Solicitor's office. As the matter is before the courts, I obviously do not want to comment on that.

The Deputy is aware of the fact that the Supreme Court issued its ruling on the appeal of Mr. McCrystal against the decision of the High Court in relation to the Government's information campaign on the children's referendum. The Supreme Court will give its detailed analysis on 11 December 2012.

Will the Taoiseach comment on the impact on the Bills?

It is a matter of whether the petition is allowed and whether that goes to the Supreme Court.

The legislation is in the Government programme, so does it impact on that?

No, it will not have any impact on the legislation. The programme for legislation arising from the children's rights referendum, and as a back-up to it, will continue.

Just a couple of rudaí gasta. First, I very much welcome the commitment to have a debate on Gaza. I thought we could have come to it in the course of Taoiseach's questions. Some 110 Palestinians and three Israelis have been killed recently. I commend the Government's success in getting onto the UN's Human Rights Council. Would it be appropriate for the Government to use its new status-----

We will debate that when time has been granted.

Okay. When will the finance (local property tax) Bill be published and debated in the Dáil? It is a Bill to provide for the introduction of a property tax, which was previously the brainchild of Fianna Fáil and part of its four-year plan. When will the legislation be brought forward and debated? Will it take into account the significant number of households in mortgage distress, as the Taoiseach committed to do in the programme for Government?

I am sure we can find time to discuss the question of Gaza.

The property tax is a matter for the Minister for Finance to bring forward. It will be part of the budgetary process and the House will have the opportunity to discuss that.

Does the Taoiseach know when?

The budget is in early December.

Gabh mo leithscéal.

The programme for Government makes a whole range of commitments on job creation. In April 2011, the target was 102,000 additional jobs.

Thank you, Deputy, but we will not debate that now. The Deputy can ask about legislation.

I do not want to debate it now, I just want to ask a question about it. Those figures were revised downwards in April this year to 67,000 jobs. Last week, on 13 November, they were further revised down to 18,000 jobs. It is quite obvious that there has been an absolute failure of job creation by the State. I ask the Taoiseach to allow a debate in the Chamber on job creation, as well as employment, unemployment and emigration.

Can we get back to the normal practice whereby requests for debates are done through the Whips and brought up at Whips' meetings? Deputy Healy is still a member of the Technical Group so I suggest that he should have a chat with Deputy Catherine Murphy.

It is a matter for the Taoiseach and his Whips to allow a debate in the Chamber.

No, it is not.

It is a very important issue.

I appreciate that.

There are 450,000 people unemployed and people are emigrating at the rate of hundreds per day.

I appreciate the importance of it.

The Government, which was elected on job creation proposals, has now failed to achieve its target.

Thank you, Deputy. We all know that. I appreciate that but I am only dealing with a procedural issue.

The Central Statistics Office shows that there were 34,000 fewer jobs in the economy this year than when the Government came to power.

Will the Deputy please resume his seat? I am dealing with procedural matters and it is for the Chair to adjudge if they are in or out of order. I am ruling that requests for time for debate be made and agreed, as is normal practice, through the Whips. In this case, Deputy Catherine Murphy is the Whip. I call Deputy Boyd Barrett.

First, I am glad the Taoiseach has agreed to the debate on Gaza and the escalating crisis there. Hopefully, it can be held as soon as possible, because it is important that this Parliament be seen to speak out on the issue. Perhaps the Ceann Comhairle can tell me what is the procedure regarding the request by the speaker of the Gaza legislative council that he might be invited to this Parliament. What is the protocol?

The matter is being debated at the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade.

I simply ask what is the protocol regarding that request from the Gaza legislative council that its members might visit this Parliament to meet the Taoiseach, the Ceann Comhairle and representatives of the political parties?

I am sure that were the Deputy to take it up with the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade tomorrow, it might be able to facilitate a debate in respect of his request.

It has been a full week since the Minister for Health received the report from the expert group on the X case situation and the Taoiseach promised a debate in this Chamber. Why has the report not been published thus far? Given there will be a three-hour debate in the Dáil this week on this issue and the related issue of the sad implications of the Savita Halappanavar tragedy-----

Thank you, Deputy.

----- will the Government publish that report forthwith to help to inform the debate, rather than debating in a vacuum? The Government is treating this expert report like the third secret of Fatima.

Thank you, Deputy. We cannot have a debate as you suggest.

What is the problem? When will the Government publish-----

We have dealt with this matter on Leaders' Questions.

No, we have not, a Cheann Comhairle.

Can the Taoiseach clarify the position in this regard?

Deputy Higgins is not a leader.

The Sinn Féin Party has decided to use its Private Members' time to table a motion on this subject, as is its prerogative. I might say to Deputy Higgins that we waited for 20 years to deal with the business of protecting children and their rights and this now has been dealt with and decided on by the people within 18 months. The Administration, as part of the programme for Government, undertook to commission an expert group report to present the options that are available to the Government to deal with the question of the A, B and C case decided by the European Court of Human Rights, with particular regard to the C case, in which the inadequacy concerned the lack of clarity and definition of the circumstances under which a termination medically would be available in a hospital to a woman in that situation. The Minister only received the report last week and it is a report that requires some consideration. The Minister will bring the report to the Government next Tuesday and on his recommendation, the Government will decide to publish the report. That is only right and proper.

However, Deputy Higgins should note this is an issue with which the Government will deal with sensitivity, pragmatism and realism. There is a clear need to provide clarity and confidence in the medical circumstances and the legality of what happens in hospitals where such situations arise. Moreover, people who go through college and become doctors and consultants and who then are faced with a situation in which they must make a decision require certainty about what they are doing. In that sense, the report will come before the Government next Tuesday.

Why not this Tuesday?

It will make its decision to publish it on the Minister's recommendation.

I make the point to Deputy Higgins that we are dealing with a different generation of politicians and a different generation in the country generally. Therefore, on the report's publication, I wish to ensure that each Member of the Oireachtas has the right and the opportunity to have his or her say about the report and his or her views on the options. Moreover, it will not be a ten-minute debate for everyone. I want to hear the views of all Members of all parties and none in order that this debate can, in its own way, inform the Government about the process leading to a decision that is to be taken in this regard. Consequently, Deputy Higgins will have ample time to make known his views on this subject, which is sensitive and which has divided our society for a very long time but is one with which the present Government will deal.

Starting when?

I can confirm to the Ceann Comhairle that the Whips will be authorised, on the decision of the Government, to commence the process regarding the discussions that can take place here in the Dáil with regard to the A, B and C report. As I indicated to Deputy Higgins, it will not be a discussion that will be concluded in two or three days but will be one in which everyone will have a full opportunity to have his or her full say on this issue.

Speaking as someone who has visited the Gaza Strip in the past 12 months-----

I am delighted the Deputy did so.

----- and who saw at first hand the impact the conflict has had on the people of Gaza, I welcome the Taoiseach's intention to facilitate a debate on Gaza in the coming weeks.

I thank the Deputy. We will have that debate then.

On legislation, can the Taoiseach tell me the reason the local government reform Bill is not being fast-tracked, given the reform has been announced? Reform is necessary and is urgently required but currently the Bill is not included in the publication document for 2013.

We will ask the Taoiseach for the Deputy.

That Bill will be published next year.

As it has been decided that the G8 meeting next year is to be held in County Fermanagh, does the Taoiseach have plans to invite some of the world leaders to visit some Border counties at the least or to go further south next year? As The Gathering initiative will be under way, this clearly would be an opportunity to add to it.

Is there some Standing Order about which I do not know?

Has any thought been given to this suggestion?

Prime Minister Cameron informed me of his intention to hold the G8 summit in Northern Ireland some time ago. I am unsure whether any of the leaders want to put the golf clubs into the back of the aeroplane and perhaps play a round of golf somewhere down here. They would be very welcome. As the Deputy is aware, we have invited the entire world here as part of The Gathering.

They should be taken to Parknasilla.

While I am unsure what the leaders' schedules will be like, we will see what applies in that regard. If they wish to visit some of the facilities, industries, businesses or whatever, the Government will be very happy to accommodate them.

Hopefully the Taoiseach will do a better job in shaking them down when they come, rather than when he goes to Brussels.

In respect of housing, the Taoiseach mentioned a couple of weeks ago that the relevant Bill would be forthcoming. Can the Taoiseach confirm there will be a public housing investment programme in budget 2013? On the last occasion he appeared to suggest there would be such a programme. On housing, however, I particularly wish to ask the Taoiseach a question on the pyrite issue. The Minister of State sitting beside him, Deputy McEntee, is also very interested in this subject. The second deadline set in respect of pyrite by the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Hogan, seems to have passed by. Moreover, I understand that Mr. Justice Finnegan's report on Priory Hall is imminent. When will the House receive that report?

I do not think any of those questions were in order.

To what did the third question refer?

To Priory Hall. My questions pertained to Priory Hall, pyrite and housing investment.

These are matters of great importance to the people concerned. I can confirm to the Deputy that progress is being made in both cases, both in respect of pyrite and with regard to Priory Hall. I do not wish to say any more than that just now but I will keep the House informed.

As the Taoiseach is aware, the second Christmas of this Administration's term of office is approaching.

I hope that a resolution can be brought in this regard. The housing Bill is due for publication next year. Clearly, the Government is aware that a construction sector that is moving is needed. This is a matter for the Minister for Finance, who is considering what impact he might have in regard to the presentation of the budget.

The proposed licensing of health care facilities Bill is to provide for a mandatory system of licensing for public and private health care facilities. Some private health care facilities have expressed concern that this will impose an undue burden and a further layer of bureaucracy for them to deal with in their already struggling businesses. I seek clarity from the Taoiseach regarding the Bill.

That will be next year. I cannot give an accurate date now.

What is the progress in publishing the health (amendment) (No. 2) Bill, which will rectify a number of issues identified over time, specifically regarding the Health Act 1970? It will give the House the opportunity to discuss related matters as well.

The Deputy has got me. It will be next year before it is published.

This weekend is the second anniversary of the troika coming to our shores and there is much carry on about banks and pay. The public is aghast at what is ongoing. With regard to the Central Bank (consolidation) Bill, what is the role of public interest directors?

The Deputy means to ask when it is due.

You mean to ask when it is due.

Yes, and there is the role of public interest directors.

You can deal with the debate then.

People are wondering what these gentlemen and ladies on boards are doing in serving the public.

We are dealing with the Central Bank (Supervision and Enforcement) Bill 2011. Until that is concluded the other Bill will not progress. I do not know if the Deputy intends to invite Mr. A. J. Chopra back for the second anniversary.

I do not. Will the Taoiseach invite Angela?

I wish to raise two issues. Is it the intention of the Government to have Second Stage of the Betting (Amendment) Bill 2012 before or after Christmas? Has the opinion of the European Commission been sought on the legislation?

The Bill was published in July and a number of issues have arisen from its publication that must be attended to. It has not come back before the Government yet.

I presume it will be 2013 before we deal with Second Stage.

That depends on when the Minister for Justice and Equality brings it before the Government. It has not yet appeared.

The Taoiseach is well aware that the Credit Institutions (Eligible Liabilities Guarantee) Scheme - the banking guarantee of 2009 - is due to run out on 31 December this year. Is it the intention of the Government to extend the banking guarantee?

When will that legislation come forward?

The Minister for Finance will report to the House on that.

When is publication expected for the road traffic Bill? We have introduced many safety measures for road traffic but with darker evenings, people are still walking on the roads. It should be mandatory for people to wear reflective jackets or armbands in such circumstances. This is a serious issue in rural Ireland, where people go out on the road without proper reflective jackets or armbands. There should be a fine for not wearing such clothing.

We will find out about that.

I commend the gardaí going around to schools to speak to young people about the necessity for safety, particularly with the dark winter evenings we are experiencing. The heads are being prepared on the Bill but it will be next year before it is published.

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