Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 28 Nov 2012

Vol. 784 No. 3

Order of Business

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take No. 11a - motion re membership of committees; No. 19, statements on the European Council, Brussels; No. 20, Credit Union Bill 2012 - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; and No. 18, Electoral (Amendment) (Dáil Constituencies) Bill 2012 - Second Stage (resumed).

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: in the event that a division is in progress at the time fixed for taking Private Members' business, which shall be No. 37, Medical Treatment (Termination of Pregnancy in Case of Risk to Life of Pregnant Woman) (No. 2) Bill 2012 – Second Stage (resumed), the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. and Standing Order 121(3) shall not apply and Private Members’ business shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 90 minutes; No. 11a shall be decided without debate; the proceedings on No. 19 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 85 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply: the statements shall be made by the Taoiseach and by the main spokespersons for Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order and may share time and shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case, a Minister or Minister of State shall take questions for a period not exceeding 20 minutes and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply, which shall not exceed five minutes; the Report and Final Stages of No. 20 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 7.30 p.m. tonight by one question, which shall be put from the Chair, and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Finance.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are four proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with Private Members' business agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 11a, motion re membership of committees, without debate, agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 19, statements on European Council, Brussels, agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 20, Credit Union Bill 2012 - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages agreed to?

Deputy Pearse Doherty

It is not agreed. It is unlikely all of the time provided for Report Stage of the Credit Union Bill 2012 will be required as the Minister engaged fairly on it on Committee Stage, when he indicated he would be bringing forward additional amendments on Report Stage. The practice of imposing a guillotine is wrong and should be stopped. There is no need to provide for a guillotine in respect of Report Stage of this Bill. On that basis, on a point of principle Sinn Féin is opposed to the guillotine of this Bill. The guillotine will not be required. This practice is being used too often by Government.

The Taoiseach

I have objected to the use of the guillotine on many occasions. The guillotine has been provided because the Credit Union Bill 2012 must go before the Seanad next week. It may well be that the guillotine will not be necessary because of, as the Deputy said, the Minister's fair engagement on the Bill on Committee Stage. It is provided for in the event that it may be required because the Bill must go before the Seanad next week. If Members are prepared to conclude within the time allowed, the guillotine will not be used. It is included as a safeguard because the Bill has to go before the Seanad next week.

Question, "That the proposal for dealing with No. 20 be agreed to", put and declared carried.

Deputy Micheál Martin

The Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Varadkar, has given a commitment on forthcoming legislation that people who genuinely cannot pay the property tax will be eligible for a waiver or can have it attached against the value of their property. When can we expect legislation to provide a property tax? Also, will the legislation promised by the Minister, Deputy Varadkar, on the provision of a waiver system be separate legislation or will the waiver system be attached to the legislation introducing the property tax?

On a second matter, I ask the Taoiseach to indicate to the House the arrangements for the Supplementary Estimate for the Department of Health. There was a very flawed Estimate last year, as we know, and an additional sum of approximately €400 million is needed. When will that be brought before the House and will the Government allow time for a debate on the Supplementary Estimate?

The Taoiseach

The Government has not signed off on the question of the property tax yet. That will be a matter for presentation-----

Deputy Micheál Martin

Sorry, but could the Taoiseach repeat that please?

The Taoiseach

The Government has not signed off on the details of the property tax yet. That will be a matter for presentation in the budget next week. Bilateral discussions are still being conducted by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and each individual Minister. These have not been fully signed off either so I cannot give the Deputy a date for the conclusion of the discussions between the Minister for Health and the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform. The Deputy can take it, however, that there will be ample time for discussion on all aspects of the budget, including the Estimate for the Department of Health.

Deputy Micheál Martin

My question relates to the Supplementary Estimate for this year which the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform has indicated will be necessary for the Department of Health.

The Taoiseach

As I said, the current position-----

Deputy Micheál Martin

Sometimes the motions are put without debate. Supplementary Estimates can be taken without debate but I am putting a marker down-----

Deputy Jerry Buttimer

The Supplementary Estimate will be discussed at the meeting of the Select Sub-Committee on Health tomorrow at 9.30 a.m.

Deputy Micheál Martin

I am not talking about committees but about a plenary session of the Dáil. Can we have a debate on the Supplementary Estimate for the Department of Health?

Deputy Jerry Buttimer

The Fianna Fáil spokesperson on health is aware of the agenda for the committee meeting.

The Taoiseach

As Deputy Martin knows, Supplementary Estimates are always referred to the relevant committees and as Deputy Buttimer has pointed out-----

Deputy Micheál Martin

I am requesting that the Estimate be debated in plenary session in the House.

An Ceann Comhairle

We are not having a discussion on this now.

The Taoiseach

Deputy Buttimer, as Chairman of the committee, has pointed out that the facility to debate the Supplementary Estimate will be available at the meeting of the Select Sub-Committee on Health, which Deputy Martin is entitled to attend if he wishes.

Deputy Micheál Martin

As leader of the Opposition, I am asking for Government time, in a plenary session of the Dáil, to discuss the Supplementary Estimate for the Department of Health.

The Taoiseach

We have lots to do in government.

Deputy Micheál Martin

I beg your pardon?

The Taoiseach

We have lots to do with Government time.

Deputy Micheál Martin

Does that mean the Taoiseach will not provide time for a debate on the Supplementary Estimate?

The Taoiseach

The Fianna Fáil spokesperson on health will have the opportunity to attend the committee meeting and make his case there.

Deputy Micheál Martin

Deputy Kelleher, my party's spokesperson on health, has just indicated that he was given a commitment that the Supplementary Estimate would be discussed in the Dáil Chamber.

An Ceann Comhairle

I suggest that the Whips discuss this issue. We cannot have a debate about it now.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

I ask the Taoiseach to clarify the position regarding the property tax. He mentioned previously that the legislation would be published on budget day. Is that still the case? I also ask him to update us on the health amendment Bill, which proposes to provide free GP services. When is it likely to be published and debated in the Dáil? The programme for Government committed to providing free GP care for claimants under the long-term illness scheme in the first year of Government but we are already nine months behind that target. When will it be delivered and what is causing the delay?

I welcome the publication yesterday of the report of the expert group on the judgment in A, B and C v. Ireland. I ask the Taoiseach to indicate whether the report will be debated in the Dáil next Tuesday and on another day next week. I suggest, given the importance of the issue and also the fact that we will have the budget next week, which should dominate discussions here, that he convene the Parliament on Monday. Sinn Féin would be happy to facilitate that so that we can have a dedicated discussion on the expert group report on Monday and Tuesday, because the rest of the week will be taken up with budgetary matters, as will much of the following week. I urge the Taoiseach to consider convening the Parliament on Monday so that we can discuss the report properly.

The Taoiseach

It is a matter for the Whips to make arrangements for the discussion on the expert group report. I have already said that ample time will be provided for Members to discuss the report and the Whips will work out the detailed arrangements.

The health amendment Bill referred to by the Deputy is being drafted by the Parliamentary Counsel.

In response to what Deputy Martin said earlier, I cannot recall the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Varadkar, promising any waivers in respect of the property tax. This will be part of the budgetary process and it will be up to the Minister for Finance to set out the schedule for the legislation to deal with it. I am sure he will do that next week.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

I seek clarification because the Taoiseach said previously that the property tax Bill would be published on budget day. Is that now off the agenda? Will the legislation be published next week?

The Taoiseach

The Minister will set out the schedule as part of the budgetary process next week.

Deputy John O'Mahony

In light of the fact that funding of Leader projects in north-east Mayo has been suspended pending the outcome of an investigation, is legislation promised on how Leader funding is to be distributed? This is an urgent matter which I have tried to raise on numerous occasions in the last three weeks with no success. There are many community groups waiting for funding and I ask the Taoiseach to address the matter urgently.

The Taoiseach

Deputy O'Mahony is referring to a specific location in Mayo where an investigation is ongoing. The Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government has already set out his views in respect of the changing of responsibilities in that regard. I will follow through on the specific question raised by Deputy O'Mahony regarding the investigation taking place in a Leader area and will advise him in due course.

Deputy Jerry Buttimer

In light of the holding of The Gathering in 2013, could we have an outline from the Government on the role of the Dublin Airport Authority-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Not on the Order of Business, Deputy Buttimer.

Deputy Jerry Buttimer

It is important-----

An Ceann Comhairle

We do not deal with The Gathering on the Order of Business.

Deputy Jerry Buttimer

It is important in terms of aviation policy.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is entitled to ask about promised legislation.

Deputy Jerry Buttimer

In regard to aviation policy-----

An Ceann Comhairle

No, Deputy. I must be fair to everybody here. Deputy Buttimer is out of order. Sorry about that.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

The Deputy can discuss it at his committee meeting tomorrow morning.

Deputy Jerry Buttimer

It is contained in the legislative programme for 2012 to 2013.

An Ceann Comhairle

What is contained in the legislative programme? The Gathering?

Deputy Jerry Buttimer

My question for the Taoiseach is very specific. It concerns the role and composition of the Dublin Airport Authority, with particular reference to Cork Airport, which has lost 12 airlines in the last 12 months-----

An Ceann Comhairle

One second, please, Deputy Buttimer. You are really abusing the process.

Deputy Jerry Buttimer

What is the Government's plan in that regard?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach is not answering that question because it has nothing to do with promised legislation.

Deputy Jerry Buttimer

It is related to legislation.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should not try to cod me. I call Deputy Higgins.

Deputy Joe Higgins

I ask the Taoiseach to clarify the legislative timescale for a property tax. He said the Government had not yet signed off on it and mentioned that some details would be given on budget day, but I understood from the Minister for Finance that there would be stand-alone legislation on the property tax. Is that legislation finalised and when will it be introduced in the Dáil? A second related point concerns the obnoxious proposals being mooted that social welfare recipients-----

An Ceann Comhairle

One moment, please, Deputy Higgins.

Deputy Joe Higgins

-----will have their property tax deducted at source.

An Ceann Comhairle

We are not getting into the detail now, Deputy Higgins.

Deputy Joe Higgins

If such an obnoxious proposal is introduced, will it be announced on budget day or will it also be stand-alone legislation?

An Ceann Comhairle

I would appreciate the Deputy's co-operation here. I ask the Taoiseach to clarify the position on the property tax for Deputy Higgins.

The Taoiseach

I confirm again that the Government has not signed off on the full range of details concerning the property tax. The Minister will make his announcement in that regard during his budget presentation and he will set out the schedule for dealing with the property tax as part of the legislative agenda.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

Company law is an issue that remains to be dealt with. In view of that, when is it expected that the companies miscellaneous provisions Bill will come before the House? Have the heads of the Bill been discussed yet and is the legislation expected close to or long after the originally anticipated date?

The Taoiseach

As I understand it, the companies Bill will be published in the next number of weeks.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

In the context of the proposed amalgamation of the National Consumer Agency and the Competition Authority, as provided for in the consumer and corporate Bill, the concrete industry-----

An Ceann Comhairle

What is the name of the Bill to which the Deputy referred?

Deputy Mattie McGrath

The consumer and corporate Bill. It concerns the amalgamation of two toothless authorities. The Government is planning to put the two of them together, which is like breeding a jennet off an ass.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy will have a chance to discuss the matter when the Bill is before the House.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I really mean that. It is a complete waste of time.

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask the Taoiseach to indicate when the aforementioned Bill is due before the House.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

The racket that is going on in the concrete industry is unbelievable. It is one of the biggest scandals to hit this country-----

An Ceann Comhairle

I understand and I will get the information the Deputy is seeking.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

-----in 40 years.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy McGrath can say all of that and more when the Bill comes before the House.

The Taoiseach

The consumer and competition Bill is being drafted at the moment. It is on the A list but I am not sure it will make it through before the end of the year.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy will have to hope it makes the cut.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I must live in hope, eternal hope.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

I ask the Taoiseach about the highly questionable practice by the HSE of engaging minors to carry out test purchases in shops.

An Ceann Comhairle

What legislation does the Deputy's question concern?

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

The Public Health (Tobacco) (Amendment) Bill.

The Taoiseach

Work is ongoing on the tobacco Bill at present.

Deputy Barry Cowen

Further to the Taoiseach's response regarding legislation on the proposed property tax, it is envisaged that the legislation will follow the Cabinet's discussion of the Thornhill report. Has that report been furnished to the Cabinet and will it be published when the legislation is proposed? I would like to think that the report has been with the Cabinet for some time now, based on the negotiations that are taking place between the Department of Social Protection and Revenue on the collection of property taxes.

The Taoiseach

Deputy Cowen will be aware that the Revenue Commissioners were asked to set out the structure and mechanics of how a property tax might operate. I expect that the Thornhill report will be published once the Government has signed off on the details of the property tax. The Minister for Finance will set out that schedule.

Deputy Barry Cowen

When did the Cabinet get the Thornhill report?

The Taoiseach

The Thornhill report has been furnished to the Minister for quite some time now.

Deputy Micheál Martin

Since June.

Deputy Barry Cowen

I asked when the Cabinet received it.

The Taoiseach

The Cabinet has not yet signed off on it.

Deputy Ciara Conway

In light of the "Yes" vote secured in the children's referendum, when will we see legislation establishing the child and family support agency, which will be a landmark for children in this country? When will it be published and when will we have an opportunity to discuss it in this House?

The Taoiseach

This is a priority and I would like to see it published before the end of the year. I hope that can be achieved, although there is quite a deal with the Parliamentary Counsel. It is a priority for the Minister and it has been raised on a number of occasions.

Deputy Michelle Mulherin

In regard to the consideration of the forthcoming finance Bill, will incentives for Shannon Airport be included and to what extent have such incentives been discussed with European authorities-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Sorry, that is not on the Order of Business.

Deputy Michelle Mulherin

-----in regard to the likelihood of an anti-competitive situation arising for other airports, including Knock?

An Ceann Comhairle

I suggest the Deputy should submit a Topical Issue matter and we will see what we can do for her. Her question is not allowed on the Order of Business.

Deputy Michelle Mulherin

My question concerned the finance Bill.

An Ceann Comhairle

I appreciate that it is an important issue.