Order of Business

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Pat Rabbitte)

It is proposed to take No. 17, motion re Credit Institutions (Stabilisation) Act 2010, and No. 7, Finance (Local Property Tax) Bill 2012 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that No. 17 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 65 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply: the speech of a Minister or a Minister of State and the main spokespersons for Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group who shall be called on in that order and may share their time shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case, a Minister or a Minister of State shall be called on to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed five minutes; the sitting shall be suspended at 2 p.m. for 30 minutes; Second Stage of No. 7 shall be taken today and, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 6 p.m.; the Dáil shall sit on Monday, 17 December 2012 at 10.30 a.m. and adjourn not later than 4.30 p.m.; and there shall be no Order of Business within the meaning of Standing Order 26 and, accordingly, the business to be transacted shall be as follows: No. 35, statements on the report of the expert group on the judgment in the A, B and C v. Ireland case (resumed), and No. 33, Health (Pricing and Supply of Medical Goods) Bill 2012 [Seanad] - Second Stage (resumed) which shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 4.30 p.m. and any division demanded shall be taken immediately after the Order of Business on Tuesday, 18 December 2012.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are four proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 17, motion re Credit Institutions (Stabilisation) Act 2010, agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with the suspension of the sitting agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Second Stage of No. 7, Finance (Local Property Tax) Bill 2012, agreed to?

Deputy Micheál Martin

It is not agreed. In the strongest possible terms I oppose the manner in which the Government proposes to treat the Finance (Local Property Tax) Bill by ramming it through the Dáil and the Seanad in the space of one week. This is a 70 page Bill with 159 sections containing significant detail and giving extensive powers to Revenue to enter homes. It introduces a tax that will hit the one quarter of mortgage holders who are in arrears, as we heard yesterday, which is a clear demonstration that this is the wrong tax at the wrong time. It will also hit hard-pressed mortgage holders who are paying their way, including unemployed persons and welfare recipients. Yesterday we heard that local authority tenants would have their rents increased as a result of this property tax on local authority housing. That is not to mention those in negative equity or people who have paid massive amounts in stamp duty. The hit on Dublin families as a result of this tax will be enormous.

I do not understand why the Government is insisting on proceeding as proposed. We had a disgraceful situation yesterday on the Social Welfare Bill. Is the Government afraid of public interaction with Deputies in this Chamber or is it afraid that there is more than one Member on the Government backbenches who is prepared to stand up, have a conscience-----

Deputy Mattie McGrath

They are hidden away.

Deputy Micheál Martin

-----oppose and fulfil the commitments given while in opposition?

Deputy Barry Cowen

They are pirouetting on the plinth.

Deputy Micheál Martin

There seems to be a genuine drive by the Government to deny debate and discussion in the House on these issues. This morning I listened to the Minister, Deputy Pat Rabbitte, talk about that small sliver in the Labour Party that preferred opposition and advocacy to being in government.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

He was a sliver once himself.

Deputy Micheál Martin

It suggested to me the democratic centralist tendencies, so beloved of The Workers' Party, are alive and well and in control.

Deputy Michael McCarthy

The Dali Lama of Ballinlough has some neck.

Deputy Micheál Martin

The Minister and his ilk within the Labour Party-----

An Ceann Comhairle

We are straying from the question before the House.

Deputy Micheál Martin

-----have succeeded in driving out the last vestiges of old decent Labour into the cold.

Deputy John Lyons

There is nobody from the media present to listen to the Deputy.

Deputy Micheál Martin

It is a sad scene to behold that the Trotsky of Tallaght has become the mudguard of Fine Gael in the Government.

A Deputy

The Deputy is some hypocrite.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

A Cheann Comhairle-----

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

Please allow Deputy Doherty to make his point.

Deputy Michael Noonan

The Abbey has moved to Cork.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

I object to proposal No. 3. It is unacceptable that the family home tax legislation is to be rammed through the Dáil, with the debate on Second Stage to conclude by 6 p.m. and all other Stages to be taken on Tuesday.

Even though there is an additional sitting next Monday, the Government does not see fit to allow this House to debate one of the most draconian pieces of legislation we have seen, which extends huge powers to the Revenue Commissioners to deduct a property tax from people's salaries, social welfare payments, farm assist payments and so on. It is clear that the Government does not want a proper scrutiny of this tax and the new powers extended to the Revenue Commissioners. We all know that the Tánaiste promised not to introduce a property tax, but we also know that the Minister, Deputy Pat Rabbitte, thinks that is just what the Labour Party does before elections.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Pearse Doherty

It is absolutely appalling that the same families that were hit by the reduction of €325 in the respite care grant will be hit by a property tax if this legislation is passed next Tuesday. The one in four households that cannot pay their mortgages and the families already in poverty will be slapped with this tax by the Labour Party and Fine Gael. It is another broken promise.

The commitment by both parties in government to treat this House with respect has been ignored.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Pearse Doherty

This is not the way to deal with legislation. Members of the Labour Party and Fine Gael should stand up and say this is not acceptable on their watch.

Deputy Paul Kehoe

Deputy Doherty should play Angry Birds.

An Ceann Comhairle

I have called the Minister to reply.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

I am surprised by the comments of the two Deputies opposite. There cannot have been a more debated measure before Dáil Éireann for a very long time.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Where is Big Phil?

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

This measure has been signalled for at least a year and debated up and down the country. I am especially surprised at Deputy Micheál Martin given that he negotiated it.

Deputy Micheál Martin

That is absolutely untrue.

An Ceann Comhairle

Settle down, Deputies. The Minister must be allowed to reply.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

Nothing that Mr. Angry from Donegal says surprises me. Anger, unfortunately, is not a policy and I look forward to multiple returns on the home tax from some of the Sinn Féin Deputies. However, it ill behoves the man who negotiated the property tax to come in here posturing like a pantomime dame as if he were now opposed to it, having introduced it in the first place. I know a shop near the Gaiety where he could get a wig for the rest of the Christmas.

A Deputy

Yes you do.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

I am putting the question.

Deputy Micheál Martin

A Cheann Comhairle, this is a disgrace.

An Ceann Comhairle

We are not having a debate. I am putting the question.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputies, please. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 7 agreed to?

Deputy Micheál Martin

This House is being treated with contempt.

Deputy Derek Keating

Fianna Fáil treated this House with contempt for 14 years.

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask Deputy Martin to resume his seat.

Deputy Micheál Martin

We are not getting an opportunity to debate what is going on here today.

An Ceann Comhairle

Please resume your seat, Deputy. You had your say and we are now going to vote.

Deputy Micheál Martin

We were promised a democratic revolution. Instead we have a sitting next Monday to deal with business that nobody on this side of the House requested.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Micheál Martin

It is the usual ploy from this Government.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 7, Second Stage of the Finance (Local Property Tax) Bill 2012, agreed to?

Deputies

No.

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with No. 7 be agreed to."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 66; Níl, 35.

Tá

Bannon, James.
Breen, Pat.
Butler, Ray.
Buttimer, Jerry.
Byrne, Catherine.
Byrne, Eric.
Carey, Joe.
Coffey, Paudie.
Conaghan, Michael.
Conlan, Seán.
Connaughton, Paul J.
Conway, Ciara.
Coonan, Noel.
Coveney, Simon.
Creed, Michael.
Daly, Jim.
Deenihan, Jimmy.
Deering, Pat.
Doherty, Regina.
Donohoe, Paschal.
English, Damien.
Feighan, Frank.
Flanagan, Charles.
Griffin, Brendan.
Harrington, Noel.
Harris, Simon.
Hayes, Brian.
Hayes, Tom.
Heydon, Martin.
Humphreys, Heather.
Keating, Derek.
Kehoe, Paul.
Kyne, Seán.
Lyons, John.
McCarthy, Michael.
McGinley, Dinny.
McLoughlin, Tony.
Maloney, Eamonn.
Mathews, Peter.
Mitchell, Olivia.
Mitchell O'Connor, Mary.
Murphy, Dara.
Murphy, Eoghan.
Nash, Gerald.
Neville, Dan.
Nolan, Derek.
Noonan, Michael.
Ó Ríordáin, Aodhán.
O'Donnell, Kieran.
O'Donovan, Patrick.
O'Mahony, John.
O'Reilly, Joe.
Perry, John.
Phelan, Ann.
Phelan, John Paul.
Rabbitte, Pat.
Reilly, James.
Ring, Michael.
Ryan, Brendan.
Spring, Arthur.
Stanton, David.
Timmins, Billy.
Tuffy, Joanna.
Twomey, Liam.
Wall, Jack.
Walsh, Brian.

Níl

Adams, Gerry.
Browne, John.
Calleary, Dara.
Collins, Joan.
Colreavy, Michael.
Cowen, Barry.
Daly, Clare.
Doherty, Pearse.
Dooley, Timmy.
Ellis, Dessie.
Grealish, Noel.
Halligan, John.
Healy, Seamus.
Higgins, Joe.
Kelleher, Billy.
Kitt, Michael P.
Mac Lochlainn, Pádraig.
McDonald, Mary Lou.
McGrath, Finian.
McGrath, Mattie.
McGrath, Michael.
McLellan, Sandra.
Martin, Micheál.
Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
Ó Cuív, Éamon.
Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
O'Brien, Jonathan.
O'Sullivan, Maureen.
Ross, Shane.
Smith, Brendan.
Stanley, Brian.
Tóibín, Peadar.
Troy, Robert.
Wallace, Mick.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Paul Kehoe and John Lyons; Níl, Deputies Seán Ó Fearghaíl and Aengus Ó Snodaigh.

Question declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for the sitting and business of the Dáil on Monday, 17 December 2012, agreed to?

Deputy Micheál Martin

No. Again, we are opposing the Government's proposal in respect of the sitting on Monday next. What is happening in this House is quite farcical. In the past week alone, we passed Supplementary Estimates in respect of health and welfare totalling €1 billion without any plenary discussion in the Dáil. Yesterday, the Government rammed through the Social Welfare Bill and no one had the opportunity to discuss, or to even articulate an opinion on, issues relating to child benefit, the removal of the PRSI exemption, the reduction in jobseeker's allowance and the many other measures it contains. There was no debate whatsoever. Today, the Government will ram through the Second Stage of the Finance (Local Property Tax) Bill in order to shut down the debate on a property tax that will impact on every household in the country.

A Deputy

Fianna Fáil negotiated that tax.

Deputy Micheál Martin

The House will sit on Monday and there will be no Order of Business. Again, this is perhaps aimed at trying to deflect from the core issues of social welfare and the property tax. What is happening is very cynical. The Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, indicated that nothing has been discussed more than the property tax. He is completely misleading the House in this regard. The Thornhill report has been in the relevant Minister's hands since July. That report provides the intellectual backdrop to the introduction of this tax.

Deputy Michael Creed

Fianna Fáil gave us the backdrop to it.

Deputy Micheál Martin

The report to which I refer was only published on Friday last in the aftermath of the budget. There should have been a specific discussion on that report in advance of the legislation being brought forward.

Deputy Michael Noonan

Fianna Fáil provided the backdrop to the introduction of the property tax.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Micheál Martin

The point I am making here relates to the suppression of debate. What is happening here is another attempt to shut down any form of discussion. This Government promised a democratic revolution and the Minister of State with responsibility for Dáil procedures stated that there would be no guillotining of non-emergency legislation. The rationale behind what is being done here has not, despite all the smart comments, been explained by the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte. Why is this happening? Why is the House being denied an opportunity to debate this and other issues?

This is, as far as we are concerned, an extremely important matter, particularly in the context of Deputies being given an opportunity to debate the legislation in detail. I wish to put an alternative proposal whereby we could still have the sitting on Monday but that we would take Committee Stage of the Finance (Local Property Tax) Bill 2012 instead of the other business that has been scheduled.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy.

Deputy Micheál Martin

The legislation to which I refer will have an impact on every household throughout the country and it could also have an impact on churches, charities, etc., and we need an opportunity to discuss it.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has had a fair hearing.

Deputy Micheál Martin

I accept that what is happening is not the Ceann Comhairle's fault.

An Ceann Comhairle

I appreciate that. I merely wish to be fair to everybody. I call Deputy Pearse Doherty.

Deputy Micheál Martin

The Government is intent on ramming the legislation through with unseemly haste. What it is doing is both wrong and disgraceful.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

The tax is not due to be introduced until July.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

We want to object to the way the business for Monday's sitting has been ordered. We have no objection to the House sitting on Monday. Indeed Sinn Féin called for such a sitting in order that an additional debate on budgetary matters might take place. The proposal before the House indicates that Monday's sitting will be mostly taken up by the debate on the expert group report. People want us to debate the impact of the Social Welfare Bill, which the House passed last night, and how the family home tax is going to affect their incomes.

We have all heard the clattering coming from the Labour Party benches. The scenes we witnessed earlier were absolutely appalling. Government Deputies and Ministers had the generosity to burst into laughter - in fact they were doubled over in their seats - at a question relating to how people are going to be impacted upon by the family home tax.

Deputy Gerald Nash

Spare us.

Deputy Ray Butler

This is not "Walks along the Border with Peter Darragh Quinn".

(Interruptions).

Deputy Pearse Doherty

There are very-----

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

Hold on a second, Deputies.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

-----few families which are doubled over with laughter in their homes this morning.

Deputy Gerald Nash

Spare us.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

They are reeling from the fact that the Social Welfare Bill has been passed by this House and that the Government plans to ram through, with little or no debate, a family home tax which is going to impose a further burden on them.

Deputy Derek Keating

What about Sinn Féin's twisted policies?

Deputy Ray Butler

I wonder how people in the North feel.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

We have heard about Deputies wrestling with their consciences in respect of the cuts to child benefit and the respite care grant. The families to which I refer are going to be expected to pay the family home tax.

Deputy Derek Keating

What about the families Sinn Féin persecuted for 30 years?

Deputy Pearse Doherty

What is happening is absolutely appalling. There should be a sitting on Monday and we should take the opportunity it offers to debate the family home tax. In addition, there should be an Order of Business, Leaders' Questions, a Topical Issue Debate and Question Time. That is the form a proper sitting should take. What we will probably get is another glib response from the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, that will be designed to have Government's backbenchers bursting out laughing again and forgetting what real people are being obliged to endure.

Deputy Ray Butler

Deputy Pearse Doherty should not get angry.

Deputy Joan Collins

I also wish to object to the ordering of business for Monday. I am of the view that we should debate the property tax during Monday's sitting. As Deputy Martin indicated, the Thornhill report was only published in recent days. Voluntary organisations have stated that they are being impacted upon by what is taking place and the Thornhill report states that these organisations should be excluded from the so-called property tax, which is a family home tax. The legislation should be debated in much greater detail. The Government is not allocating sufficient time in respect of it. Some 1.9 million families and households will be affected by the tax. It is the Government's responsibility to give the House adequate time to debate the Bill properly.