Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 20 Dec 2012

Vol. 787 No. 5

Order of Business

The Tánaiste

It is proposed to take No. 13, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann for a decision of the European Parliament and of the Council amending Decision No. 573/2007/EC, Decision No. 575/2007/EC and Council Decision 2007/435/EC, back from committee; No. 14, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Double Taxation Relief (Taxes on Income and Capital Gains) (Arab Republic of Egypt) Order 2012, back from committee; No. 15, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Double Taxation Relief (Taxes on Income and Capital Gains) (State of Qatar) Order 2012, back from committee; No. 16, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Double Taxation Relief (Taxes on Income and on Property) (Republic of Uzbekistan) Order 2012, back from committee; No. 17, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Double Taxation Relief (Taxes on Income and on Capital) (Swiss Confederation) Order 2012, back from committee; No. 18, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Exchange of Information Relating to Taxes (San Marino) Order 2012, back from committee; No. 19, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Mutual Assistance in Tax Matters Order 2012, back from committee; No. 20, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the National Pensions Reserve Fund Act 2000 (Suspension of Exchequer Contributions) Order 2012, back from committee; No. 21, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the report by the Minister for Defence regarding service by the Defence Forces with the United Nations in 2011, back from committee; No. 28, Transport (Córas Iompair Éireann and Subsidiary Companies Borrowings) Bill 2012 [Seanad] - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; No. 3, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2012 [Seanad] - Second and Subsequent Stages; No. 29, Civil Defence Bill 2012 [Seanad] - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; and No. 4, Civil Registration (Amendment) Bill 2012 [Seanad] - Second and Subsequent Stages.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: the Dáil shall sit later than 5.45 p.m. and shall adjourn on the conclusion of oral questions; the sitting shall be suspended for 30 minutes at 12.45 p.m., or in the event a division is in progress at that time, immediately on the conclusion of that division; Nos. 13, 14 to 19, inclusive, 20 and 21 shall be decided without debate, and in the case of Nos. 14 to 19, inclusive, shall be moved together and decided by one question which shall be put from the Chair; the Report and Final Stages of No. 28 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 12.45 p.m. today by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport; the Second and Subsequent Stages of No. 3 shall be taken today and the following arrangements shall apply: the proceedings on Second Stage shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 3.45 p.m. today and the proceedings on Committee and Remaining Stages shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 4.15 p.m. today by one question which shall be put from the Chair, and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform; the Report and Final Stages of No. 29 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 60 minutes today by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Justice and Equality; the Second and Subsequent Stages of No. 4 shall be taken today and the following arrangements shall apply: the proceedings on the Second Stage shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 7 p.m., the opening speeches of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order and who may share their time, shall not exceed 20 minutes in each case, the speech of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes and such Members may share their time and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed five minutes; and the proceedings on Committee and Remaining Stages shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 8 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Social Protection, and the order shall resume thereafter with Topical Issues and Oral Questions; and the Dáil on its rising today shall adjourn until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 16 January 2013.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are seven proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal that the Dáil shall sit later than 5.45 p.m. and shall adjourn on the conclusion of oral questions agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 13 to 21, inclusive, agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 28 agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 3 agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 29 agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 4 agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal that the Dáil, on its rising today, shall adjourn until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 16 January 2013 agreed to? Agreed.

Deputy Micheál Martin

I seek clarification from the Tánaiste. Under section 221 of the National Asset Management Agency, NAMA, Act it is an offence to attempt to lobby NAMA. The penalty on conviction of that offence is a fine of €1,000 or six months in prison. I am not suggesting there was any interference with or lobbying of NAMA but the issue raised today, following a freedom of information request about a particular meeting between the Minister for Health and NAMA and the information we received from the Department of Health-----

An Ceann Comhairle

A question on the Order of Business, Deputy.

Deputy Micheál Martin

-----which related to how the primary care centres were selected hours before the Cabinet meeting-----

An Ceann Comhairle

What is your question on the Order of Business?

Deputy Micheál Martin

-----reveal the unsatisfactory fact that the Opposition has had to use the Freedom of Information Acts for months to piece together the jigsaw of the decision to select these primary care centres. It is most unsatisfactory. The Government made a commitment to introduce new freedom of information legislation. It has taken us months to get much of the detail, some of which is redacted. The dripping of information relating to the selection of primary care centres is entirely unsatisfactory.

Will the Tánaiste commit the Government to undertaking a sharp inquiry into the primary care centre debacle, with a view to using all the documentation that is now available under freedom of information and questioning the key people involved, so we can get a comprehensive account of how those primary care centres were selected? I ask the Tánaiste to give a commitment to hold such an inquiry. This issue is a distraction for the Dáil. It has been arising since last June and new pieces of information are emerging all the time. Behind the scenes, the Tánaiste must be unhappy with what is happening in this case. A number of his party's Ministers have expressed their disquiet. It is equally unsatisfactory that we must use the freedom of information procedure all the time. The Tánaiste gave me a commitment some months ago that he would publish all the documentation about this, but he did not. I had to wait for months to get it under the Freedom of Information Act.

The Tánaiste

First, there is no issue with any matter in connection with any Minister being debated either in the House or at the appropriate committee. One of the reasons we have committees is so they can address issues and question Ministers, probably in far greater detail than is normally permitted in the Chamber during Question Time. There is no difficulty with any issue being questioned by the Members of the Opposition.

With regard to freedom of information, the Deputy will recall that his Government filleted the Freedom of Information Act, so amending legislation will be brought before the House in the new year to restore many of the powers of that Act.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy McDonald.

Deputy Micheál Martin

The Tánaiste could do much more now. Will there be an inquiry?

An Ceann Comhairle

I have called Deputy McDonald.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

I, too, believe that the handling of the primary care centres is something to which we will have to return in the new year.

An Ceann Comhairle

It can be dealt with by way of a motion.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

I am sure it will be, but I feel incredible frustration with the Tánaiste. When questions of fundamental importance are put to him relating to the integrity of the decision making processes, he resorts to hyperbole rather than dealing with the issue at hand. This is a serious issue and it will not go away.

I wish to raise two other matters. The Houses of the Oireachtas Commission (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill is being dealt with today, the last sitting day. I submitted amendments but all of them were ruled out of order. It is most unsatisfactory that this Bill is before the House on the last sitting day and that issues of public concern regarding the allowances and payments that Members of this House enjoy appear not to be amenable to amendment or change, regardless of what the Opposition does. Will the Tánaiste comment on that?

There is a commitment in the programme for Government to end long-term homelessness and sleeping rough, which I wholeheartedly support. However, many of the Government's actions have aggravated the problem of homelessness rather than address it, particularly the cuts to rent supplement. What concrete actions does the Government propose to take to honour the commitment to end long-term homelessness and sleeping rough?

The Tánaiste

The Houses of the Oireachtas Commission (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill will provide for a reduction of 10% in the amount allocated to the Houses of the Oireachtas to do its business. The amount for the previous three years was €360 million and this will be reduced to €324 million, a cut of 10% or €36 million. Compared to the three years prior to that again, it is a reduction of almost 20% from €393 million to €324 million. It represents, therefore, a significant reduction in the money allocated for the running of the Houses. I understand from the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform that many of the individual measures will require statutory instruments and there is a procedure in the House under which any Member or party can address particular measures if they wish.

With regard to the issue of homelessness, the Government made it clear from the outset that one of our priorities was to ensure as far as possible that people would not lose their homes during this recession and to give effect to that, we passed this week the personal insolvency legislation, which will radically amend the legislation governing insolvency and put in place a range of non-judicial settlement arrangements for people who are in difficulty with their mortgages. All of this is aimed at ensuring people will not lose their homes. Homelessness is being addressed by the Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, and I am sure she would be happy to answer detailed questions that may be put to her on that.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I refer to newspaper reports over the past few days about European Court of Justice, ECJ, fines. We dealt with this issue under the Water Services (Amendment) Act 2012. I thought by introducing the legislation and putting charges and registrations fees on people the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government had dealt with the ECJ issue. We now find we have the worst of all worlds. We have enacted a Bill but we will have to pay the fines as well. Have we any clout in Europe?

An Ceann Comhairle

It sounds like a parliamentary question to me.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

It is an important issue. The Ceann Comhairle is in good spirits this morning and I want to keep it that way if I can but it is a serious matter.

An Ceann Comhairle

I know that.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

People will register their septic tanks and I welcome the limited grants scheme.

An Ceann Comhairle

This is the Order of Business. I cannot help the Deputy.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Under the Water Services (Amendment) Bill 2011, the fines were supposed to have been addressed when it was enacted but now we are being fined.

The Tánaiste

The ECJ imposed fines on Ireland in a judgment issued yesterday in respect of the county's non-compliance with matters relating to septic tanks. That was something that went back over a period of ten years when a party of which the Deputy was then a member and that he supported for a long period-----

Deputy Mattie McGrath

We all use the tanks.

The Tánaiste

These fines related to the period when the party and Government the Deputy supported was in office and did not address the problem of septic tanks.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

The Tánaiste is not entering into the spirit the Ceann Comhairle asked for.

The Tánaiste

The Government has addressed the issue of septic tanks------

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Is the Government still paying the fines?

The Tánaiste

-----which will mean that we will not be liable to be fined in the future. However, the fact that we were fined because of inaction in the past demonstrates the wisdom of the Government introducing the legislation relating to septic tanks, which the Deputy has been going around the country claiming should not be done. The ECJ has shown what would have continued to happen if it was not addressed.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

The Government was going to solve it all.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

We have.

Deputy James Bannon

Given the number of stories about the level of crime and corruption hitting the headlines on a daily basis, when will the criminal justice (proceeds of crime) Bill be published? Can it be extended to empower the Criminal Assets Bureau, CAB, to include the new crime wave in the white collar sector?

The Tánaiste

It is No. 98 on the list. The Bill is intended to strengthen the powers of the CAB in forfeiting the proceeds of the crime. Consultations with the CAB are ongoing and it is not possible to give an indication as to when the Bill will be published.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

The courts bill proposes to amend the in camera rule in respect of family law and child care hearings. When it is expected to be brought before the House? Has it been discussed at Cabinet and have the heads of the Bill been approved?

I refer to the land and conveyancing law reform (amendment) Bill. The boom period the country experienced, which is sadly over, showed up several flaws in land conveyancing procedures. Has the Bill been discussed by the Cabinet and the heads approved? When is it likely to come before the House to ensure we do not have a repeat of the difficulties that have arisen?

The Tánaiste

The courts Bill will facilitate an updating of the law to allow reporting subject to certain conditions of family and child care proceedings. The heads of the Bill were approved by Government on 31 October and it is hoped to publish the Bill next session.

The conveyancing Bill will take a little longer and our hope is to have it next year.

Deputy Róisín Shortall

I would like to ask about three Bills in the health area that were promised this session, which clearly we are not going to get to at this stage. The first is the HSE governance Bill, which we were told was priority legislation and which went through the Seanad in September but has not appeared since. Where is that? What is the reason for the delay? The second is the free general practitioner care Bill, which the Tánaiste had promised we would have this session. What is the reason for the delay? When might we see that? The third is the public health (alcohol) Bill, which had been promised for before Christmas. What is the reason for the delay? When we can expect to see those three Bills?

The Tánaiste

The HSE governance Bill has been through the Seanad and is awaiting Second Stage in the House.

Deputy Róisín Shortall

What is the reason for the delay? It is priority legislation.

The Tánaiste

There is no reason for the delay. We are breaking for Christmas today and I expect it will be taken early in the new year. There are currently four health Bills before the Houses.

The health (amendment) Bill addresses some complex issues that are currently being worked out between the Department and the Parliamentary Counsel. There are drafting issues and publication is expected early next session. Work is continuing on the alcohol legislation. Progress has been made and we expect that proposals will be with Government early in 2013.

Deputy Michelle Mulherin

My question relates to the forthcoming finance Bill. There is a deadline of 31 December next for first-time buyers to draw down their loan cheques to avail of enhanced mortgage interest relief and I seek a small extension of the deadline because of the number of first-time buyers who will be unable to draw their cheques down in time as a result of the holiday arrangements for banks. I understand that 400 such borrowers will be discommoded by one bank and will miss out on the opportunity to avail of the enhanced mortgage interest relief.

The Tánaiste

That is a matter for the legislation and I will draw the Deputy's concerns to the attention of the Minister for Finance.

Deputy Dessie Ellis

The taxi regulation Bill is due early in the new year. The taxi review report has been completed for a year and we have not had an opportunity to debate issues relating to the taxi industry.

Will the Bill be at the top of the agenda in the new year? Many issues attach to what is happening in the taxi industry at present.

The Tánaiste

The Bill has been published. The Minister of State, Deputy Alan Kelly, has been working on the issue for some time. I understand the Bill will be in the Seanad in the third week of January. We will have an opportunity to debate it in the Dail after that.

Deputy Catherine Murphy

As recently as last week, the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government told the Joint Committee on Environment, Community and Local Government he hoped the heads of the climate change Bill would be published before the end of this session. That, clearly, has not happened. When is it likely to happen and how will the delay impact on the road map? There is a time-line in all of this.

The Tánaiste

The climate change Bill is being considered by Government. I expect it will be published early in the new year.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

The Minister of State, Deputy Alan Kelly, has been working diligently on the taxi regulation Bill. What will be done for taxi drivers who want to transfer their taxi licence? Will that matter be addressed in the Bill?

Deputy Brendan Howlin

That is a good parliamentary question.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

Is Deputy Howlin the new Ceann Comhairle?

Deputy Brendan Howlin

I try to give the Deputy free advice. What more can I do?

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

I would like the Tánaiste to answer, in the spirit of the season.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Tánaiste might give some information to help the Deputy, as it is Christmas.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

Thank you, a Cheann Comhairle.

The Tánaiste

The issue of taxi and taxi regulation was seriously neglected by the previous Government. We all know the huge difficulties that have resulted from that, for taxi drivers and for their customers. For the first time, the Government has addressed the problems in the taxi industry in a serious way. The Minister of State, Deputy Kelly, has brought forward legislation and it will be debated in the Dáil and in the Seanad. I am sure Deputy Kelly will consider any submission by Deputy Healy-Rae.