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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 19 Feb 2013

Vol. 793 No. 1

Order of Business

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take No. 17, motion re ministerial rota for parliamentary questions; No. 18, motion re referral to joint committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann that section 17A of the Diseases of Animals Act 1966 shall continue in force for the period ending on 8 March 2014; No. 19, motion re referral to select sub-committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Finance Act 2004 (Section 91) (Deferred Surrender to the Central Fund) Order 2013; No. 37, statements on the report of the inter-departmental committee to establish the facts of State involvement with the Magdalen laundries, to be taken at 6.30 p.m. and to adjourn after spokespersons' statements; and No. 6, Finance Bill 2013 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. and shall adjourn on the conclusion of the opening speeches of No. 6, and the sitting shall be suspended on the conclusion of the Topical Issue debate until 6.30 p.m.; Nos. 17, 18 and 19 shall be decided without debate; the following arrangements shall apply in relation to No. 37: the statements of the Taoiseach, Tánaiste and of the leaders of Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, or persons nominated in their stead, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 20 minutes in each case, and such Members may share their time, the statements of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes, and such Members may share their time, the statement of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes in each case, and such Members may share their time, and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed ten minutes; and Private Members’ business, which shall be No. 104, motion re mortgage restructuring, shall take place on the conclusion of the spokespersons' statements on No. 37 or at 7.30 p.m., whichever is the later, and shall adjourn after 90 minutes, if not previously concluded.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are four proposals to be put to the House. No. 1 is the proposal that the Dáil shall later than 9 p.m. tonight and that the suspension of sitting be agreed to. Is that agreed?

Deputy Micheál Martin

Not agreed.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

Not agreed.

Deputy Micheál Martin

In terms of the schedule before us, there is no need to take Second Stage of the Finance Bill right through to midnight. It is an extraordinary situation that we will be commencing the Finance Bill at about 9.45 p.m. By my calculation, all the significant speeches by the Minister and the spokespersons will take us through to about 11.45 p.m. This is not emergency legislation. There is nothing of huge consequence in the Finance Bill itself. I do not mean that in a negative way, it is just that nothing is required to be passed by midnight. I know the Bill will also be discussed on Thursday. To be frank, the Finance Bill should be discussed in broad daylight and should be given a reasonable timescale. It does not have to finish on Thursday. In previous years, Finance Bills went on longer. I do not understand what the rush is. I certainly think that it is not good for Parliament that the very first consideration of the Finance Bill would be at 9.45 p.m. right through to midnight. I just do not see why. It is almost reminiscent of December when we are rushing things thought prior to the Christmas break. We are now in springtime and I do not see the necessity for this. I think it is wrong for Parliament. The Finance Bill is important legislation that deserves its proper priority space within the scheduling of the House's business. In addition, the contributions of Members should get as full exposure as possible. I hope the Taoiseach is not guillotining the Bill, although it seems that he will on Thursday. That is something to which we would be very much opposed.

Deputy Gerry Adams

I hope I am wrong but I do not think there is much point in objecting to this, given the way the Government deals with schedules. However, consideration must be given not just to Teachtaí Dála but also to the staff who will have to stay here until almost midnight.

Deputy Micheál Martin

On a point of correction, it is until 12.40 a.m. actually.

The Taoiseach

It is until 12.45 a.m.

An Ceann Comhairle

Yes, I am calling Deputy Boyd Barrett.

Deputy Paul Kehoe

Deputy Martin is not used to working late.

An Ceann Comhairle

Sorry, can we have Deputy Boyd Barrett?

The Taoiseach

Here is the man in blue. Boy blue.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

I will wait until you have stopped with the hilarity, Taoiseach.

An Ceann Comhairle

Please proceed.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

I want to object in the strongest possible terms to the Finance Bill - which is probably one of the most important Bills that will pass through the Dáil in the course of this year - being taken that late at night.

Deputy Paul Kehoe

The Deputy is never happy.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

I did not ask you, Minister.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should speak through the Chair, please.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

It is absolutely unacceptable that the Finance Bill should be taken that late. I do not know why the Taoiseach thinks it is funny. It is an absolute manipulation and abuse of the democratic process that a Bill of this importance is being taken that late and into the early hours of tomorrow morning. This Bill has profound implications for the solvency of the State and for citizens. It should been discussed in the full glare of public scrutiny and media attention. In my opinion, it is deliberately being put this late at night.

There is absolutely no need for it. Members could have been brought into the Chamber earlier this morning or, for example, the Motor Vehicle (Duties and Licences) Bill scheduled for Thursday could have been swapped with the Finance Bill.

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you Deputy.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

The introduction of the Finance Bill should be taken at an hour when the public, the media and everyone can scrutinise fully that introduction. I appeal to the Taoiseach to change this proposed order. I also reiterate a point others have made, which is to have some respect for the staff in the Dáil who will be forced to stay here so late.

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you. The Taoiseach to reply.

Deputy Paul Kehoe

Will the Deputy shout more loudly tonight to be heard?

The Taoiseach

First, the Motor Vehicle (Duties and Licences) Bill is a budgetary requirement that must be taken and must go through. Deputy Martin raised the point about the Dáil commencing the Finance Bill at 9.45 p.m.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

It will be later than 9.45 p.m.

Deputy Micheál Martin

Taoiseach, it will now be later.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

The schedule has been revised.

The Taoiseach

This will be a full formal discussion in this Chamber on the Finance Bill. The Minister for Finance must travel to London tomorrow morning and it appears to me that commencing a formal discussion at 9.45 p.m.-----

Deputy Mattie McGrath

It will commence at 10.45 p.m.

Deputy Micheál Martin

Taoiseach, it is scheduled for 10.45 p.m.

The Taoiseach

-----is a hell of a lot better than having some kind of incorporeal meeting at 3 a.m.-----

Deputy Mattie McGrath

On a point of information------

Deputy Micheál Martin

It will be 10.45 p.m.

The Taoiseach

-----about placing an economic crucifixion on the backs of the people, which the Government now must rectify.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

That is what the Government did two weeks ago and now it is doing it again.

The Taoiseach

In any event, the Dáil will sit tonight until 12.40 a.m. on Second Stage of the Finance Bill.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

No, it will be later.

The Taoiseach

The House will sit all day tomorrow until 10.30 p.m. on the Second Stage debate of the Finance Bill and will continue that debate on Thursday until 2.30 p.m. This comprises more than 12 hours of Second Stage debate, which is more than adequate for Members to have their say in the full glare of public examination and publicity-----

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

This is manipulation.

The Taoiseach

-----and I look forward to hearing what Deputy Boyd Barrett has to say in that regard.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

The Taoiseach must provide the factual times.

Deputy Micheál Martin

The Taoiseach is treating the House with contempt on a consistent basis.

Question put: "That the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. tonight and the suspension of sitting be agreed to."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 81; Níl, 38.

Tá

Níl

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Paul Kehoe and Emmet Stagg; Níl, Deputies Dara Calleary and Aengus Ó Snodaigh.

Question declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 17, 18 and 19 agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 37 agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Private Members' business agreed to? Agreed.

I call Deputy Martin. Could we have order in the House because there are only six minutes left on the Order of Business.

Deputy Micheál Martin

I wish to raise two issues if I could get the Taoiseach's attention.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

They are talking about closing Garda stations.

An Ceann Comhairle

If Members are leaving the Chamber, would they do so quietly?

Deputy Micheál Martin

It is unusual and unprecedented for the Chief Justice to find herself issuing warnings on Supreme Court appeals being delayed because of the unprecedented number of appeals seeking priority hearings. According to the Irish Independent, 600 appeals were filed in 2012, which is double the number filed in 2007. What does the Government intend to do to respond to this situation in the context of the courts Bill? Is consideration being given to appointing a new court of appeal, which would require a referendum, to which, I understand, the Government is committed? Will the Taoiseach confirm that a referendum will take place? When does he expect the publication of the courts Bill?

While welcoming the sale of Irish Life to Great-West Lifeco's subsidiary, Canada Life (Ireland), 2,200 employees will be wondering about their fate in terms of security of tenure and employment? Has the Minister for Finance given guarantees to protect the workforce?

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot debate that on the Order of Business.

Deputy Micheál Martin

I refer to the workplace relations Bill.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is stretching it.

Deputy Micheál Martin

That may be so but I assure the Ceann Comhairle the Bill is in the legislative programme.

An Ceann Comhairle

Does it cover the Irish Life takeover?

Deputies

Yes.

Deputy Micheál Martin

Security of tenure is central to workplace relations and the bottom line is the legislation was promised previously in the context of the sale of Quinn Insurance to the Liberty Mutual Group, following which 250 people were laid off within a year. It remains a serious issue.

The Taoiseach

In respect of the comments made by the Chief Justice, which I have noted, it is the intention of the Government to introduce a court of civil appeal. That will require a referendum. Work is under way on preparing for that referendum and I expect it will be held in the autumn on the same day as the referendum on the abolition of the Seanad.

The workplace relations Bill is due this session. I am sure the Deputy will welcome the sale of Irish Life and the position is no compulsory redundancies are expected.

Deputy Gerry Adams

Given the decision to sit beyond midnight, I ask that the bar be closed or that breathalyzer tests be introduced for Teachtaí entering the Chamber.

An Ceann Comhairle

That matter is not covered by the Order of Business.

Deputy Frank Feighan

On a point of order, some members of Deputy Adams's party were in the bar recently when we sat late. I was drinking tea and coffee and was not on any hard stuff. Deputy Adams should speak for himself. Members of his party were in the bar on the night in question.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Feighan should resume his seat.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Michael Ring

Once a hypocrite, always a hypocrite.

An Ceann Comhairle

Could we please get back to the Order of Business?

Deputy Derek Keating

Deputy Adams is doing the House a disservice.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputies should settle down.

Deputy Gerry Adams

The Teachtaí protest too much.

On the social welfare and pensions Bill-----

Deputy Paul Kehoe

Which pension is that? Is it the Westminster one?

Deputy Gerry Adams

I understand the report of the expert advisory group on tax and social welfare was due to be discussed by the Cabinet today. As I understand it, the report outlines a plan to tax or introduce a two tier system for child benefit. The Taoiseach will recall that the Labour Party famously promised not to cut child benefit.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot have a debate.

Deputy Gerry Adams

Was the report discussed at Cabinet? When will it be published and debated? When will the social welfare and pensions Bill be introduced?

The Taoiseach

The heads of the social welfare Bill will be ready in April and I expect it will be published in the next session. In regard to child benefit, the report in question will be published, I believe, today or tomorrow. It will go to the relevant Oireachtas committee for consultation and will come back to government in due course, probably in April or May.

Deputy Gerry Adams

What is the position with the bar?

An Ceann Comhairle

The matter cannot be discussed on the Order of Business.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I raise a serious issue which is of concern to people all over the country, namely, the proposed sale of our timber and forestry assets, including those held by Coillte. When does the Government intend to reform and update the legislative framework relating to forestry to support the development of a modern forestry sector? Can it not see the wood from the trees?

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

I thought the Deputy's interest was in metal.

The Taoiseach

This session.

Deputy John O'Mahony

Has progress been made on the gambling control Bill, which is due for publication this year? Has the Cabinet discussed the Bill? We hear every day about the problems of online gambling.

An Ceann Comhairle

A number of other Deputies wish to contribute.

Deputy John O'Mahony

What progress has been made on the Bill?

The Taoiseach

The Department is working on the heads of the Bill, which is expected later this year.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

With regard to student nurses who are being forced into a cheap labour scheme-----

An Ceann Comhairle

We will not have a preamble.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

-----84 applications have been made for 1,000 places and they are being bullied and told their contracts will not be renewed-----

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask the Deputy to co-operate.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

-----unless they enter the Government's slave scheme.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is a load of nonsense. The Deputy should get on with it.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

It is not nonsense.

An Ceann Comhairle

We are discussing promised legislation. The Deputy should stop acting the maggot every day.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

I am discussing the Health Service Executive.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should table a parliamentary question. To what legislation is he referring?

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

The Health Service Executive (Governance) Bill.

An Ceann Comhairle

What does that have to do with the scheme for nurses?

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

If the Ceann Comhairle was a student nurse, he would agree it has everything to do with the scheme.

The Taoiseach

The Health Service Executive (Governance) Bill is on Second Stage.

An Ceann Comhairle

If the Deputy read the Order Paper, he would know that.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

Last year, the Taoiseach announced the new national paediatric hospital would be located in St. James's Hospital. The remit of the old national paediatric hospital development board ran out on 5 December and new legislation is due, which would give effect to the plans. When is the Bill due?

The Taoiseach

I do not have a date for publication. The legislation is being worked on. Obviously, there is a requirement to introduce it quickly.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

On the horse racing Bill, which is due this year, has the Taoiseach spoken to the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Coveney, about the welfare of horses-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you, Deputy.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

-----given that the Minister does not have fundamental basic statistics, for example, on the number of horses slaughtered and exported?

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy, please co-operate. We are over time and another Deputy wishes to speak.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

This is an important issue.

The Taoiseach

The Bill has not yet come to the Government and is due later in the year.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

I understand the Minister has a draft of the Mercer report on the remuneration of high ranking bankers and banking officials. When will the report be published and when will legislation on it be introduced? The Taoiseach's statement that there will not be compulsory redundancies at Irish Life does not lay to rest the fears of 2,800 workers in Irish Life and Canada Life, many of whom are low paid, given the announcement today that there will be voluntary redundancies. When will high ranking officials in the banks have their wages slashed, as promised by the Government?

An Ceann Comhairle

We are not having speeches. To which Bill is the Deputy referring?

The Taoiseach

He is referring to the review of remuneration practices and frameworks. Deputy Pearse Doherty received a letter dated 15 February indicating what is the current position, namely, the office of the Minister for Finance is in discussions concerning the draft report presented by the consultants to the Department. It is hoped the report will be finalised very soon. The Minister is committed to publishing the details which underpin the remuneration review in view of the public interest in this matter. That should not be too long.

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