Seamus Kirk
Question:6. Deputy Seamus Kirk asked the Minister for Justice and Equality his plans, if any, for the reform of the free legal aid scheme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11672/13]
Other Questions
Criminal Legal Aid
The current legislation governing the criminal legal aid scheme is the Criminal Justice (Legal Aid) Act 1962 and a series of regulations made thereunder. The Act provides that an applicant for criminal legal aid must establish to the satisfaction of the court that his or her means are insufficient to enable him or her to pay for legal representation him or herself. The Court must also be satisfied that by reason of the gravity of the charge or exceptional circumstances, it is essential in the interests of justice that the applicant should have legal aid. The constitutional right to legal aid was established in 1976 in the Healy v. Donoghue case. In addition, Article 6(3)(c) of the European Convention on Human Rights provides that every person charged with a criminal offence is entitled to defend him or herself in person or through legal assistance of his or her own choosing or, if he or she has insufficient means to pay for legal assistance, to be given it free when the interests of justice so require.
A new criminal legal aid Bill is planned to update and strengthen the system of granting legal aid including transferring responsibility for the administration of the scheme to the Legal Aid Board. Consideration is being given to including in the Bill provisions to, inter alia, regulate better the taking of statements of means, increase the sanction for false declarations, allow the board to verify the means of applicants and to prosecute cases of abuse. Provision to give power to the Legal Aid Board to recover the costs of criminal legal aid or to make application to a court to revoke a criminal legal aid certificate are also under consideration. These provisions must have regard to a person's rights to the presumption of innocence, to a fair trial and to be given legal aid, where appropriate. I hope it will be possible to publish the Bill during the course of this year.
As we are no longer dealing with Priority Questions, I remind Deputies that there is a one minute limit in respect of supplementary questions and replies to same.
We would all agree with what the Minister has just said in terms of people being entitled to the presumption of innocence and to a fair trial. That is a cornerstone of our criminal justice system. However, an issue which arises time and again and which grates with the public, as the Minister is well aware, is that of serial re-offenders who are availing of the free legal aid system. The point is regularly made that these people make no contribution whatsoever. Perhaps that is a failure of the means test within the system. It has been pointed out by the public, quite rightly, that the local property tax can be collected directly by the Revenue Commissioners. Revenue can access people's employers or their bank accounts to collect the property tax but, at the same time, the recovery of money for the subscription towards free legal aid does not seem to be possible. This issue must be addressed because the wider public is hugely concerned about this.
When does the Minister hope to introduce the proposed legislation? Will the heads of a Bill be published before the Committee Stage debate?
I will allow Deputy O'Donovan to ask a quick supplementary question before the Minister replies.
According to the Minister's reply to a question I tabled last September on criminal legal aid in 2011, 148 practitioners were paid a minimum of €100,000 each, out of a total of 1,565 practitioners, which would equate to about 26% of the total budget of €56 million. This is based on the assumption that they each only received €100,000 although I presume some would have received more than that sum. In the context of the promised legislation, will the Minister look at the costs associated with the free legal aid scheme? A budget of €56.1 million is quite considerable and 148 practitioners received €14.8 million between them, which is a lot of money in these times.
Just to take the last question first, as the Deputy may recall, we reduced the fees payable under the criminal legal aid scheme on two occasions since we have been in office. The effect of that was that considerable savings were made last year. The outturn for 2012, which is to be finally confirmed, was that the cost of the legal aid scheme fell to €50 million, representing a saving of some €6 million over the preceding year. I would stress that this is a tentative figure. I will have the definitive figure very shortly and will forward it to the Deputy then.
The reality is that under Irish Statute, our Constitution and the European Convention, people have a right to legal aid and a right to be represented in circumstances where they cannot afford to pay their own legal fees. It is inevitable that there are number of law firms and counsel who would earn substantial fees under the scheme because they are specialists in criminal law, are part of the panel system and because of the volume of people they represent.
Garda Deployment
Pearse Doherty
Question:7. Deputy Pearse Doherty asked the Minister for Justice and Equality the number of Garda personnel whose specific role is the detection of crime, on a district basis for the years 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012. [11571/13]
Pearse Doherty
Question:12. Deputy Pearse Doherty asked the Minister for Justice and Equality the number of dedicated drug units operational in An Garda Síochána on a division by division basis for the years 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012. [11572/13]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 7 and 12 together.
All gardaí have a responsibility in the prevention and detection of criminal activity whether it be in the area of burglary, drug offences or otherwise. Specifically with regard to drugs, I can assure the Deputy that An Garda Síochána continues to proactively and resolutely tackle all forms of drug crime in this jurisdiction. The Garda national drugs unit works closely with dedicated divisional and district drug units and other national units, including the organised crime unit, as well as the Criminal Assets Bureau in targeting persons involved in the illicit sale and supply of drugs.
Regarding levels of crime across the country, the crime statistics for the 12 months ending on 30 September 2012 indicate reductions in 12 of the 14 crime groups. Crimes against the person, including homicide offences, are down 17.9%; sexual offences are down 0.7%; and assault and related offences are down 9.5%. Public order and damage to property offences are also down by 12% and 9.3% respectively, with drug offences down 7.1% and weapons and explosives offences down 17.4%. Burglaries, however, increased by 7.9% during the period. On the particular issue of burglaries, last year the Commissioner launched Operation Fiacla and as of the end of February 2013, 4,226 persons have been arrested and 2,327 persons have been charged under this operation.
The two separate tables show the strengths of the divisional drugs units at the end of each year from 2009 onwards and the Garda strength on a district basis from 2005 to 2012. Deputies will find that interesting. Details of the strengths of the divisional drugs units from 2005 to 2008, inclusive, are not readily available.
Will I have two minutes for each question?
We will look after the Deputy.
I may not need that long.
There is a limit of one minute but the Deputy can come in again.
That is grand. I submitted these questions because of dialogue with a number of gardaí in different parts of the State. They are concerned that in their districts, the dedicated focus on drugs and crime detection was being lessened by cutbacks and reallocation. In a number of places where I spoke to officers, they would have had considerable success in the area.
Garda units with mobile patrols can quickly get on top of burglaries, and there is still good intelligence between communities and gardaí in that regard. Mobile patrols remain a significant deterrent. This feeds into the overall picture from gardaí and the issue I have raised regarding pay, why they are so distressed and the reason morale is so low. They do not have the resources to do their job. There are lies, damn lies and statistics and we can engage back and forth in that regard. Nevertheless, the feedback from gardaí on the ground is that the dedicated focus in a number of these areas of law enforcement is being lessened by cutbacks.
I am advised by the Commissioner that the dedicated focus in these areas is appropriate in operational terms. I cannot deal with rumours or innuendo arising from the force, and I hear all sorts of stories. I get all kinds of weird and wonderful queries into the Department of Justice and Equality about things I have personally allegedly done or said to members of the force. They may be-----
Completely true.
-----a complete fabrication. Apparently, people say things and spread rumours that are untrue, and I cannot address such issues.
The Commissioner makes operational decisions about the Garda force and, in a sense, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. The statistics indicate for 12 of 14 areas that crime is down. Although burglary rates are up, if one considers the figures to last September, rates decreased in comparison to the two preceding 12-month periods for the previous quarters. We will have figures at the end of this month for the end of 2012 that will provide additional insight. I am advised by the Garda Commissioner that there is a continuing targeted operational focus, particularly dealing with the issue raised by the Deputy of mobile gangs, burglaries and other issues. Operation Fiacla across the country and Operation Acer in Dublin are proving to be successful.
I have received feedback from officers both in an urban setting and in two rural settings. The feedback is that they are seeing less capacity to do their job and these gardaí are very frustrated. There was a wave of burglaries in Donegal but I am thankful there was a special operation to tackle that. We met the assistant commissioner and I applaud the Garda because it very quickly got on top of the issue, albeit with additional resources deployed on a short-term basis. That did the business.
I urge the Minister to engage with representative associations. I appreciate the Croke Park agreement issue and the Minister knows our position. We are not happy that those at the high end have not felt the same pain as those on the front line. We could go back and forth to argue about whether the Garda Representative Association should have been part of the talks. It has indicated it was never at the table. Somebody has failed the ordinary gardaí and those on the front line, with low morale, will take another hit on take-home pay. We must do something about it because there is a crisis of morale. If these people do not feel they have support in these Houses, it will bring consequences.
The Garda force has my absolute support and I fight for its resources. That is why I had €90 million more in 2012 than would otherwise have been available under the 2010 national development plan. That is not to get at Deputy Collins. That is why there is €5 million available, as a minimum sum, to purchase Garda vehicles. That did not feature in the 2010 plan sold to the troika by the previous Government. This is not about scoring points against Fianna Fáil but rather making the point that I fight within the Government to try to ensure we provide the maximum possible resources to the Garda Síochána.
We are living in a country with a reduced financial envelope. We still have major financial issues to address and we must reduce our borrowing requirements. We must do things differently, engaging in modern and smart policing to be as effective or even more effective than we were in the past, and we must do that with fewer resources. I have fewer euro available in 2013 than I had in 2012, and I had fewer in 2012 than was available in 2011. When Deputy Collins's colleagues were in government at the start of 2011, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform at the time had fewer available resources than he had in 2010.
There are fewer financial resources so it is very important to use them wisely and do things differently. When we make operational decisions we must be innovative. The Garda Commissioner and those working under him have been particularly successful in this regard, with the Donegal operation a case in point. Bad people appear in different parts of the country unexpectedly to create difficulties and targeted, smart operations of the nature conducted in Donegal are effective. I will not say anything more about that as people are coming before the courts.
The Minister frequently mentions here and elsewhere the issue of targeted campaigns by the Garda Síochána, smarter and more modern policing and doing things differently. He also talks of using resources wisely. At the same time he argues that everything is down to the operational discretion of the Garda Commissioner. Nevertheless, the dedicated drugs unit in Cavan and Monaghan, which has been highly successful, has been stood down. How many more dedicated drugs units have been stood down across the country? Why does the Minister not have an input in the re-establishment of dedicated drugs units, which have been very effective in curbing criminality around drugs and their proliferation? Why does the Minister not take ownership of that through the annual police plan, which he ultimately signs off? How many dedicated drugs units have been stood down?
The Minister is correct in that we are dealing with a backdrop of reduced resources. He might also agree that the biggest concern for citizens is the detection of crime so is he happy with the Garda Commissioner's decision to remove two gardaí from active duty and detection of crime because they reported incidents of malpractice within the Garda?End of Take
In return, they have been prevented from accessing PULSE and have been prevented from doing their job without the supervision of their sergeants.
Is the Minister aware of the instruction given on foot of the investigation of Assistant Commissioner O'Mahony that officers be removed from detection duties and instead put to work to examine penalty points retrospectively-----
I ask that Deputies not mention individuals by name.
-----and doctor the evidence, as it were?
I will not respond to yet another allegation made by the group across the way from me. The Members in question talk about respecting civil and human rights but in this House they have respect for no one's civil or human rights or reputation. Deputy Daly has named someone in the House and has suggested he is doctoring evidence. I ask the Deputy to withdraw that and to have the decency to do so. This House should not become a House in which people abuse privilege to make allegations they cannot substantiate.
On the issue of penalty points, I await the report that I know I am expected to receive during the course of this month. We will debate it after its publication. If there is anything arising from it that requires to be addressed by me, as Minister, it will be so addressed. If there is anything that requires to be addressed by the Garda Commissioner, it will be so addressed.
In the context of the issue the Deputy mentioned, I do not make operational decisions on where members of the force should be based, what work they should do or what supervision they should be under. However, I am conscious that various people who are not Members of this House have been named in public or in this House - the Deputy will know this because she has been engaged in it - by the Deputy's colleagues as if the individuals had done some wrong. I cannot recall whether the Deputy did it herself. The Deputy seems to believe it is appropriate that any information that might be available on the PULSE computer system should be simply published without consequences. There are consequences for the Garda's capacity to conduct an investigation. Issues arise under the Data Protection Act. I will say no more about those issues.
With regard to the query raised by Deputy Niall Collins, it would be highly inappropriate of me to make decisions on which units should operate in particular locations. These are operational decisions made by the Garda Commissioner.
The area of drugs, as the Deputy well knows, remains a high priority in the police plan of 2013. The Garda Síochána has been particularly successful in the past 12 to 18 months in respect of the very substantial drug hauls that have been achieved. I am informed that drugs valued in the region of €100 million were seized in the year ending December 2012.
Domestic Violence Refuges
Jonathan O'Brien
Question:8. Deputy Jonathan O'Brien asked the Minister for Justice and Equality if there is an Executive Office under the aegis of his Department which provides a co-ordinated whole of Government response to violence against women and domestic violence; and if he will provide an update on their work. [11557/13]
Cosc, the National Office for the Prevention of Domestic, Sexual and Gender-based Violence, is an executive office of my Department. Its key task is to ensure the delivery of a well-co-ordinated whole-of-government response to domestic, sexual and gender-based violence against women and men. Cosc was established in June 2007 and was given a remit to address these forms of violence from a cross-Government perspective rather than from a purely criminal-justice perspective.
Cosc carries out its co-ordination functions primarily within the framework of the first national strategy on domestic, sexual and gender-based violence. The strategy was published in March 2010 and covers the period 2010 to 2014. The strategy incorporates the specific tasks assigned to Cosc.
The four high-level goals of the strategy are to promote a culture of prevention and recognition through increased understanding of domestic, sexual and gender-based violence; to deliver an effective and consistent service to those affected; to ensure greater effectiveness of policy and service planning; and to ensure efficient and effective implementation of the strategy. The high-level goals cascade down into 59 detailed on-the-ground activities. Progress indicators and structures for implementation are also set out in the strategy.
Cosc consulted a broad range of stakeholders in the State and voluntary sectors to develop the strategy and is now driving its implementation. Consultation continues to form a major element in implementation. This is done through the medium of the national steering committee on violence against women and the national steering committee on violence against men. The steering committees are made up of representatives of the principal non-governmental organisations which provide direct support services to those women and men affected by these forms of violence and the State organisations with responsibilities under the strategy, which provide front-line services to victims of such violence. Bilateral meetings are also held with these organisations and with other regional groups. Cosc maintains a website containing comprehensive information, including the composition of the committees.
Monitoring of the implementation of the strategy is achieved through a high-level group of officials chaired by the Secretary General of my Department. The group, known as the strategy oversight committee, is composed of senior officials from the Departments and national agencies with responsibilities for actions under the strategy. At present, it includes representatives from the Department of Health, the Department of Education and Skills, the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, the Health Service Executive and An Garda Síochána.
Additional information not given on floor of the House
Cosc reports to the oversight committee twice per year. The report is compiled by Cosc from updates on each action provided by the lead body with responsibility for the action. The report is issued to the national steering committees for its observations before being brought before the oversight committee. Five reports have so far been published on the Cosc website for the period up to the end of June 2012. A sixth report is being finalised for the period to the end of last year. In addition, a mid-term review of the implementation of the strategy was completed in 2012 and published on the Cosc website following consideration by the national steering committees and the oversight committee.
I, along with many Deputies, attended last year a very moving presentation from SAFE Ireland, the umbrella group for domestic violence centres and groups. Its core crisis concerns the need to have enough refuge centres for women. As I am sure the Minister knows, one in five women in Ireland has reported she has been a victim of domestic abuse, either with her current or previous partner. This is a shocking statistic. How can the Minister assure the relevant organisations that the Government can offer them the real supports they need such that when a woman – it is almost always a woman - and her children present themselves in a crisis, they can be given the refuge they need?
Ever since my time working in the free legal advice centres, when Women's Aid started the first hostel for women who are victims of domestic violence, we have not had enough refuges. Unfortunately, even as we went through good times, we did not have adequate accommodation. Funding for refuges for domestic violence victims comes substantially through the Department of Health and HSE as opposed to my Department, which can play only a very small role in this area. It is an issue with which I am very familiar because of my work over the years. We do what we can to be supportive of the various groups engaged in providing refuges for victims of domestic violence. Unfortunately, as with every other area in the State at present, there is a limit on the resources available. I know this is an issue of particular interest and concern to the Minister of State, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, and the Minister for Health, Deputy James Reilly, who work in this area.
All I can do as Minister for Justice and Equality is urge that funding be provided. Cosc is very conscious of the needs in this area. I would like us to be in a position in which there are greater resources available for providing refuges for those who need a place in which to live safely, even if only temporarily.
Road Traffic Offences
Brendan Smith
Question:9. Deputy Brendan Smith asked the Minister for Justice and Equality if he has had any further response from the Northern Ireland authorities in relation to the need to deal effectively with illegal and dangerous driving practices on the N54/A3 Clones to Cavan Road; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [8929/13]
I am informed by the Garda authorities that the activity referred to occurs on a stretch of road that traverses County Fermanagh on the N54-A3. Accordingly, road safety enforcement on that particular stretch of road is the responsibility of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, PSNI. I am, however, assured that An Garda Síochána monitors traffic and performs static checkpoints at strategic locations on the proportion of the road in this State.
The Deputy will be aware that a number of joint operations have been conducted by An Garda Síochána and the PSNI targeting anti-social driving practices on this road. These operations have taken place at regular intervals over a number of years. To date in 2013, planned joint operations have been conducted by the Garda in conjunction with the PSNI on 12 and 17 January and 9 and 16 February. I am further advised by the Garda authorities that these operations will continue to be prioritised in the future and that there has been positive feedback with respect to these operations and their deterrent impact at this location.
I am assured that An Garda Síochána and the PSNI maintain ongoing close liaison with local public representatives on both sides of the Border in relation to this matter and have been proactive with regard to road safety enforcement measures in the area.
The Deputy will appreciate this is principally an operational policing matter and accordingly what is important is ongoing police co-operation. My colleague, David Ford, and I regularly discuss the general issue of co-operation between the Garda Síochána and the Police Service of Northern Ireland and we are both satisfied that co-operation between both forces is excellent. In respect of the specific issue raised by the Deputy, I am assured by the Garda authorities that this ongoing police co-operation is borne out by the recent joint operations.
I thank the Minister for that reply. I originally tabled the question for the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade and the position has since improved. Clones Town Council is the local statutory agency that has constantly brought this matter to our attention. I commend the Garda Síochána in the Cavan-Monaghan division and the local members of the PSNI in Fermanagh on their policing work in this area. It is a very difficult area to police. If someone travels from Clones to Cavan, he passes through Fermanagh on three occasions.
In previous questions, I asked the Tánaiste to ensure this issue is kept on the agenda at North-South Ministerial Council meetings and the Tánaiste undertook that, along with the Minister for Justice and Equality, he would raise the matter with the Minister for Justice in the Northern Executive. We want to reassure the local community that the matter will be given constant attention. I have had numerous complaints from older members of the community in Fermanagh, Cavan and Monaghan who were extremely frightened by the outrageous driving practices, such as joyriding, so-called "doughnutting" and other dangerous practices on particular stretches of that road, particularly in Fermanagh, on different occasions.
There is also constant ambulance traffic between Monaghan General Hospital and Cavan General Hospital and we want to ensure no tragedies occur on that stretch of road. I ask the Minister to keep the matter under consideration along with his northern counterpart.
I share the Deputy's commendation of the Garda and the PSNI because they have done important work here. What has been taking place is an outrage and is completely unacceptable. This behaviour places lives at risk and cannot be tolerated by ourselves, the Garda or the authorities in Northern Ireland. It is important that this sort of activity stops and I assure the Deputy the work being done by the Garda and PSNI will continue and everything possible will be done to curtail these activities before some tragedy occurs. Those involved in policing on both sides of the Border deserve our thanks for the work they have done on this issue.
I am open to correction but in the 1980s there was a more formal structure between Garda superintendents on the southern side of the Border and their counterparts in the North. While there are good relations between North and South now, where gardaí can telephone their PSNI colleagues, we should look at a more localised structure. Rather than Deputy Smith and Deputy Mac Lochlainn having to raise issues in here about our local areas, communities should be able to make suggestions and perhaps the Minister could consider community policing at town and county level. That model works and we should consider it for the Fermanagh-Cavan region or Tyrone-Derry-Donegal, where the community could be involved while being reassured at the same time.
I support any co-operative structure that might provide added value and facilitate co-operation in policing matters between North and South. There is now a far more sophisticated and deeper engagement between the Garda Síochána and the PSNI than would have been the case in the 1980s. We also have local policing committees, which can make an input into these issues. I am happy to consider the Deputy's suggestion.
Road Traffic Offences
Joan Collins
Question:10. Deputy Joan Collins asked the Minister for Justice and Equality if he has received the final report of the Assistant Garda Commissioner into allegations that fixed charge notices mainly for speeding have been inappropriately cancelled; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11604/13]
Seán Crowe
Question:17. Deputy Seán Crowe asked the Minister for Justice and Equality if he will provide an update on the investigation by An Garda Síochána into the allegations by whistleblowers that road traffic offences have been quashed by senior gardaí. [11567/13]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 10 and 17 together.
These questions relate to the issue surrounding the allegations concerning the cancellation of fixed charge notices. Fixed charge notices are provided for under the Road Traffic Act 2002 and are an alternative to prosecution. They give a motorist the opportunity to acknowledge the offence, pay the fixed charge and, where the offence is a penalty point offence, incur the appropriate penalty points. While the issuing of a fixed charge notice does not constitute commencement of legal proceedings, it normally leads to a prosecution if the fixed charge is not paid.
There can be circumstances, however, where the fixed charge notice may be cancelled, in accordance with Garda procedures drawn up in the light of legislative exemptions and prosecutorial guidelines. Cancellation occurs where it is believed the evidence would not sustain a prosecution or a prosecution would not be appropriate, fair or proportionate. The procedures provide authority to district officers, or inspectors acting as district officers, and an inspector in the fixed charge processing office to cancel fixed charge notices.
Cancellation can occur in circumstances where, for example, exemptions apply for emergency vehicles or the wearing of seatbelts, or where there are evidential difficulties, such as where the registration number registered by a speed camera does not correspond to the vehicle in question, or where there are emergency medical circumstances such as, for example, a sick child being driven to hospital, an imminent birth, or a medical professional rushing to a sick or elderly patient. Access to cancel a fixed charge notice through PULSE is restricted to users with the rank of inspector or higher.
The examination directed by the Commissioner into the allegations concerning the cancellation of fixed charge notices is continuing and I expect a report on the findings shortly. I have received an interim report from the Commissioner, but I will not be making any further comment on any of the allegations until the final report is available. It would be premature and wrong to assume that all of these cancellations of fixed charge notices were inappropriate, or that money has been lost to the Exchequer as a consequence. Equally, it is premature for calls to be made for a statutory inquiry into these matters. Let us await the final report on this matter, which I understand from the Garda Commissioner is nearing completion and I expect to receive in two weeks time.
I thank the Minister for that reply. He could almost recite it by rote at this stage - he does not need the script in his hand. We were told this report would be issued in January but we are still waiting for it. The Minister says it will be ready in two weeks and I hope that is the case. Does the Minister realise, however, the depth of public interest in these issues? This is not just confined to fixed penalty notices. It goes broader than that, as we know from the information we have received from the whistleblowers.
I originally submitted a question to confirm a question I submitted last month and was asked by the Questions Office to change it and table this question because if I did not table this question, I would not get in the original question, which specifically asked the Minister's response to the points I made last time. I will not name the two members of the Judiciary so the Minister need not worry but I did not get a reasonable reply to the question I submitted last month.
The Questions Office was trying to help the Deputy to submit a question, in case people think the Deputy was not allowed to ask questions about this issue. The question that the Deputy submitted was out of order according to Standing Orders and was about to be disallowed. To help the Deputy, the Questions Office contacted her so it is wrong to say there was any interference in any question tabled. The simple thing to do would have been to disallow the question so in fairness to the Questions Office, I ask the Deputy to recognise this was done to be helpful.
I recognise the staff in the Questions Office must work under direction.
They have to operate under Standing Orders.
I had a similar question in on the last occasion and it was not ruled out of order or changed. The point must be made that there is no malice in naming names. We wanted to raise the serious issue of the information available to us of thousands of penalty points being quashed and that we need to get this addressed. I hope that the report the Minister gets back in two weeks' time will give some indication on it, and perhaps the matter of the two members of the Judiciary would be clarified as well.
I call Deputy Mac Lochlainn. Deputy Crowe's question was also taken.
I did not realise the Minister was taking them together.
Questions Nos. 10 and 17 are being taken together.
Some of the other Deputies have referred to whistleblowers within the force having brought into the public domain what they claim to be shoddy practice. Apparently, it is limited to a number of districts. It is not widespread. The bottom line is that the public needs to know. It would be appalling and outrageous for the overwhelming majority of motorists who have paid their fine, taken the points, taken it on the chin and adapted their driving to think that there was some arrangement.
This is a most serious matter. Unfortunately, sometimes it gets caught up in persons being named, etc. The bottom line is a significant number of road traffic offences have allegedly been written off without any proper procedure being taken by senior members of the Garda. Those are the allegations to which a number of Deputies are privy.
I appreciate the Minister's response that he will await the report in two weeks' time. I commend him for stating he will publish the report. It needs to be done. At that stage, we need a full and frank debate in this House about the report and its implications and where we go from there. It does a damning disservice to the overwhelming majority of gardaí who serve the State will great pride that, in the issues that we have been raised today they perhaps involve only a small minority of the force. We will see how the report comes out but the allegations are very serious.
On a personal level, I have a great deal of time for Deputy Mac Lochlainn and it is difficult to criticise what he states. Occasionally, however, I must listen on this side of the House. Less than half an hour ago, Members from across the House, including Deputy Mac Lochlainn, criticised me, as they are entitled to do, as being in some way responsible for what is reported to be the low morale in the Garda force. The Members who want to talk about low morale in the force on one issue are then persistently making allegations against members of the force, that they do not properly conduct themselves, they are basically a law unto themselves and they are making decisions that they should not be making.
The penalty point issue is a case in point. I will not prejudge it. I do not know whether issues have been dealt with properly or improperly and unlike the Members who raised the issue in the first place, I will not prejudge the outcome. If Members who want to make an issue about low morale in the Garda force are talking about the difficulties in other areas, they might focus on whether they are contributing to a perception by some members of the force that it does not get the support to which it is entitled by constantly regurgitating this issue.
I take this issue seriously. I have taken it seriously since the allegations were first made. Within a short time of the allegations being brought to my notice, after I had an opportunity to give consideration to them I brought them to the attention of the Garda Commissioner and asked that the matter be fully investigated. That is now happening. I will not revisit it on an allegation-by-allegation basis, nor will I use it as a vehicle, either to name or not name Members of the House or to describe limited groups of persons in this House in a way that is designed to create a pejorative public perspective on them, which is what has been happening from the four Members opposite me. In fairness, Deputy Mac Lochlainn is more circumspect in what he is saying.
It is a serious issue and I await the outcome of the investigation. We will then address that outcome in a manner that is appropriate and we will get answers. As Minister, I want answers. However, I wonder whether the answers will be acceptable to everyone. I do not know what they will be but I suspect that if they do not fit in to the narrative of some they might not be happy and if they do, they will be celebratory. I do not know what the outcome will be. Either way, let us not use this as a mechanism to damage the reputation of members of An Garda Síochána in the eyes of the public.
I repeat I do not include Deputy Mac Lochlainn in this. I want to be clear. Let us not use this as a mechanism to, on a daily or weekly basis, get what is perceived to be a bit of beneficial personal publicity.
We are over time.
The gardaí are just doing their business.
I ask Deputy Wallace to be brief.
On the issue of the penalty points, the Minister rubbished my assertion that the Commissioner was throwing cold water on the investigation. I will quote the Commissioner in December last.
Deputy Wallace will not quote anything. The Deputy will not imply things.
The Commissioner stated, "There is no question of what has been described as a culture of non-enforcement of penalties being tolerated by An Garda Síochána".
Deputy Wallace should resume his seat. I called him to ask a supplementary question, not to make a statement. The Deputy should resume his seat.
Can I ask the supplementary question?
Deputy Wallace must adhere to the rules of the House.
Would the Minister agree that an independent investigation was more likely to give us accountability and transparency?
I can assure Deputy Wallace there will be transparency in the sense that I will publish the outcome of this investigation. Then we will make decisions as to what, if anything, needs to be done. We will be able to ascertain whether what has been alleged is true or untrue. We may be able to ascertain whether the background to this is as simple as presented by Deputy Wallace and his colleagues or is a great deal more complex. Let us await the outcome.
Written Answers follow Adjournment.