Vol. 795 No. 2
1. Deputy Niall Collins asked the Minister for Justice and Equality the discussions he has held with the Garda Commissioner on the funding available for the Garda; the total number of gardaí he expects in the force by 2013, 2014 and 2015; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11769/13]
I have regular discussions with the Garda Commissioner, including discussions on Garda resources. It goes without saying that no Minister would choose the appalling financial position in which I have had to operate. In that context, the legacy the previous Fianna Fáil-led Government bequeathed to me was a series of expenditure ceilings for the justice sector which, if applied, would have resulted in devastating cuts in Garda services which I, as Minister, would not and could not stand over.
The Fianna Fáil national recovery plan of November 2010 was unacceptable and would certainly have put the Garda Commissioner in an impossible position. Fortunately, I was able to secure additional funding over the three year period, from 2012 to 2014, to ensure the Garda Commissioner and Garda Síochána could continue to deliver an effective policing service. Specifically, I secured €2.243 billion for the justice sector for 2012, which was €118 million more than had been allocated by Fianna Fáil. For 2013, I secured funding of €2.2 billion, which was €191 million more than the Fianna Fáil allocation. For 2014, I secured €2.065 billion, which was €105 million more than the original Fianna Fáil allocation. Overall, had I not obtained this additional finance, the Garda would have stood to lose an average of €90 million each year under the Fianna Fáil plan for the years 2012 to 2014.
In 2013, the Garda financial allocation, which in gross terms amounts to more than €1.4 billion, is a substantial amount. I assure the Deputy and House that this allocation will be spent in the most effective way with the emphasis on the delivery of front-line services. In that general context, a budget of €5 million has been made available in 2013 for the purchase of additional Garda vehicles. The modernisation of the Garda fleet is a crucial part of supporting policing operations throughout the State.
Garda numbers have been reducing owing to the moratorium on recruitment introduced by the previous Government and the current strength is just under 13,400. My objective, despite the enormous financial issues facing the Government, is to ensure Garda numbers will not fall below 13,000 and I will bring relevant proposals to Cabinet in the coming weeks.
I am determined, as Minister for Justice and Equality, that the resources of the Garda Síochána will be used in the best, most effective and most efficient way possible. Overall, the primary Garda objective of combating crime will continue to be achieved. Despite the pressure on the public finances, it will be possible for the force to operate to the optimum benefit of our communities in a manner that will facilitate the prevention and detection of offences.
The Minister appears to be content to remain hamstrung by what he perceives was agreed by the Fianna Fáil Party when it was in office previously. I listened this morning to the Tánaiste, Deputy Eamon Gilmore, as he tried, in self-congratulatory mode, to outline what the Government has achieved, or failed to achieve, in the past two years. Three times, the Tánaiste indicated the Government had renegotiated aspects of the agreement with the troika. The Minister does not appear to have renegotiated anything for the benefit of the Garda Síochána.
On 5 January last, Tom Brady reported in the Irish Independent that the Garda payroll budget was sufficient to pay only 12,000 Garda members. Similar reports by the same journalist featured in the same newspaper on 9 and 15 January. Given that Tom Brady does not make up his reports, there must be some substance to them.
I submitted a freedom of information request to the Department seeking copies of the documents that have passed between the Department and Garda Síochána on this matter. The former denied that the payroll budget allocated to the Garda was inadequate. My request was refused this week on the basis that access to the records concerned could, in the opinion of the head, reasonably be expected to disclose positions taken or to be taken or plans to be used or followed for the purpose of any negotiation to be carried out or being carried out. It is obvious that some form of negotiation is taking place between the Department and Garda Síochána. Does the Garda have an adequate payroll budget to pay the approximately 13,400 members of the force? Will the Department enter into negotiations with the Garda representative associations to reduce Garda numbers by as many as 1,400 members by offering a three year career break, as has been reported? The Department has denied this is the case, the Minister has not spoken on the issue and my freedom of information request has been refused. Will the Minister shed some light on this matter? When I raised the issue previously he was less than clear about what was the position.
The Deputy obviously has listening difficulties. He stated I appeared to be hamstrung-----
Hang on a moment. The Minister should not personalise the issue.
Deputy Collins must resume his seat.
The Minister should address the issue.
Resume your seat, Deputy.
This is an immature failing on your part.
The Deputy should show some manners in the House.
The Minister should learn some manners.
This is not a shouting match. The Deputy should resume his seat.
I will do so.
The Deputy stated I appeared to be prepared to be hamstrung by Fianna Fáil's financial allocation.
I stated the Minister was happy to be hamstrung.
Resume your seat, Deputy, and stay quiet.
What the Deputy chose to ignore was that I explained I was not prepared to be hamstrung by Fianna Fáil's financial allocation.
The Minister did not renegotiate anything.
We negotiated the financial figures and, as a consequence, I have an additional €90 million available, on average, in 2012, 2013 and 2014, respectively, to fund the Garda force. The Deputy should be clear that I was not prepared to be hamstrung in any shape or form by Fianna Fáil's failure to provide adequately for the funding of the Garda.
The Minister is reducing Garda numbers to 12,000.
I will not be put off by the Deputy shouting across the Chamber at me.
It is as if the Minister did not engage in personal insults.
The hypocrisy in which he is engaging in trying to pretend that Fianna Fáil was not about to undermine the capacity of the Garda to-----
The Minister is undermining the Garda by reducing its strength to 12,000.
2. Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn asked the Minister for Justice and Equality if he plans to meet with the representatives of Garda representative organisations in order to address their concerns; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11758/13]
I am always available to meet the Garda associations to discuss issues of concern, as is the Garda Commissioner. The Commissioner met the executive committees of all the representative bodies in recent days to discuss issues arising from the recent negotiations on extending the Croke Park agreement.
I am disappointed both the Garda Representative Association, GRA, and Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors, AGSI, chose not to participate in these negotiations which were facilitated by the Labour Relations Commission. This was the opportunity for the associations to raise issues of concern and put their point of view on how best savings could be achieved in the Garda Síochána. I understand that anything that impacts on the pay and-or conditions of their members is a matter of grave concern for the GRA, AGSI and every member of the force, but that is the case for all unions and associations. It would have been far better if both associations had stayed at the table, talked through these options and engaged in the process of negotiation.
It is not the case, as has been suggested, that the associations were in some way excluded from real negotiations. It is true they are not trade unions and are not, therefore, represented by the Irish Congress of Trade Unions. While this means there must be parallel negotiations with the associations, it does not make, nor would it have made, such negotiations any less real, and they have not been any less real in the past. Exactly the same position applied to the Defence Forces associations and they concluded a deal with their management counterparts which was facilitated by the Labour Relations Commission. Parallel negotiations were also conducted with the Prison Officers Association, even though they are represented by congress, because of the unique issues which arise in the Prison Service. No one is saying the prison officers were disadvantaged by such sectoral talks or that the Prison Officers Association was not serving the best interests of its members by remaining engaged in the talks.
The GRA and AGSI chose to leave this process. Despite repeated calls from the Taoiseach, myself and others, they refused to re-enter the talks where they may have shaped the outcome in the best interests of their members, as did other unions and associations.
Additional information not given on the floor of the House
In the words of the Garda Representative Association, "the GRA executive rejected all such proposals that included a cut in Garda pay and decided we would not participate in any process that proposed such cuts". In the case of AGSI, its executive stated: "removing AGSI from the talks was in the best interest of members to protect core pay which includes allowances". It is only in recent days that it has been suggested the associations were excluded from the talks.
Both the Commissioner and I are always available to engage in constructive and meaningful discussions on matters affecting members of the Garda Síochána. However, it must be clearly understood that any such engagement in the context of these proposals most certainly cannot be interpreted as representing an attempt to re-open negotiations on the proposals which emerged from the talks in Lansdowne House from which the AGSI and the GRA withdrew. Those proposals stand as they are.
I recognise the important role that members of the Garda Síochána play in society. It is especially praiseworthy that they have shown this dedication and commitment in these most difficult times. At an individual level, there have been pay reductions, and for the force in general there are constraints on its budget. I fully understand how difficult this is at an individual and operational level and I earnestly wish things were different. The Government's aim in engaging in the negotiations was to achieve the necessary €1 billion in savings in the public sector payroll, to try to protect the basic pay of public servants at the lower end of the scale and to ensure an equitable contribution from all. We must cut our cloth to suit our measure and no sector of the public service can argue it is different from everybody else and the cuts cannot apply to them.
The Minister was the Fine Gael spokesperson on justice a couple of years ago when he sat on this side of the Chamber. He would have asked the questions that I am asking and would have had contacts with the Garda Representative Association, GRA, and spoken to gardaí on the ground. He knows the type of relationship that Opposition spokespersons have with gardaí.
Ignoring the political football, there is a crisis of morale in the Garda. These negotiations were the final straw. Gardaí will see an 8% cut in their take-home pay. These are not premium payments. They work unsocial hours and often put themselves in danger to protect the public. We need the Minister to intervene. He needs to meet the GRA and the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors, AGSI, to probe through the issues and determine whether there is any common ground on which their concerns can be addressed.
I will conclude on my next point, as I wish to ask a second question.
Do, please.
Will the Minister clarify the proposal on the five vans? Some 143 Garda stations have closed and there has been a significant reduction in the number of gardaí and vehicles. There are reports that many of those vehicles are not up to standard, yet the response is five vans. This demonstrates that someone at a high level is badly out of touch. Will the Minister address these two issues, please?
Just over two minutes are remaining.
I have genuine concerns about the position in which members of the force now find themselves. I believe the force was very ill-served by the conduct of the GRA and the AGSI in stepping outside the talks. They had a very important contribution to make to shaping the outcome of those talks and to addressing specific issues that related to members of An Garda Síochána with which I am personally familiar. Unfortunately, the GRA and the AGSI took a different course. In the words of the GRA, "The GRA executive rejected all such proposals that included a cut in Garda pay, and decided we would not participate in any process that proposed such cuts". It could have been involved in the talks but it chose not to be involved.
In the case of the AGSI, its executive stated that removal of the AGSI from the talks was in the best interests of members, namely, to protect core pay, including allowances. It was not. Rather, it was in the best interests of members that the AGSI engaged. Members of the Garda force should ask themselves whether the representative bodies of the Defence Forces engaged, whether the Prison Officers Association engaged, and whether those engagements achieved outcomes, which they did, that were sure to shape the architecture of what was agreed. Why did their representative bodies not make this contribution?
We have just under one minute remaining.
It was only in later days that the suggestion was put forward that they had been excluded from the talks.
I want to say in direct response to the point raised by the Deputy that both the Commissioner and I are always available to engage in constructive and meaningful discussions on matters affecting members of An Garda Síochána. However, it must be clearly understood that, in any such engagement, the context of these proposals most certainly cannot be interpreted as representing an attempt to re-open negotiations on the proposals that emerged from the talks at Lansdowne House from which the AGSI and the GRA withdrew. These proposals stand as they are, but I totally acknowledge and recognise the important role played by members of the Garda force in our society. It is especially praiseworthy that they have shown dedication and commitment in these most difficult times. I know that, at an individual level and in the context of pay reductions, members of the force are finding this difficult.
I am afraid that our time has concluded.
I understand those difficulties but similar difficulties are being experienced by people across the public service. They are unfortunately a consequence-----
I am sorry, but we have gone over time for this question.
-----of the enormous financial difficulties with which the State is confronted.
I will be brief.
I am sorry, Deputy, but we have gone over time.
I did not eat into my time.
The four minutes for supplementary questions have concluded. I am sorry.
I am respectful of the Ceann Comhairle's steer, but I am losing-----
I appreciate that, but I am only applying the rules. The Standing Orders have been changed. They have not been approved by the Dáil yet, but they have been brought to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
I will revisit the matter later.
To be of help to the Deputy, we will have an opportunity to respond to his other questions later.
3. Deputy Catherine Murphy asked the Minister for Justice and Equality if, in view of recent assurances that highly visible mobile Garda units will be deployed to cover wider geographic areas after station closures come into effect, he will explain the way this is intended to be facilitated in view of the existing wide disparity in the deployment of Garda vehicles and the shortage of vehicles in many parts of the country; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11772/13]
The decision to close 100 Garda stations in 2013 was the result of a comprehensive operational assessment carried out by the Garda Commissioner over a 12-month period and proposed in the Commissioner's policing plan for 2013, which I laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas. The plan contained the Commissioner's proposals for the continued re-organisation and consolidation of the Garda station network. It is, of course, a matter for the Commissioner to put the necessary policing measures in place to take account of the closure of Garda stations.
In that context, the Garda authorities have indicated that, where stations have been closed in 2013, a comprehensive set of revised structures has been put in place. In particular, the Garda authorities have emphasised that the force is continuing to support the relevant communities through the clustering of services at policing hubs. This centralisation has facilitated the introduction of enhanced patrolling arrangements that, in turn, provide increased Garda visibility as well as maintaining existing links with communities, both rural and urban. The objective is to ensure that the best possible policing service will be made available to our communities. I should add that the closures yielded the freeing up of over 160 Garda members in 2012 for operational policing duties. Moreover, the Garda authorities have indicated that the consolidation measures for 2013 will result in an extra 61,000 Garda patrol hours. The overall result is that a very wide range of measures have been implemented to take account of the closure of stations and I am confident that, arising from the consolidation process which is taking place, An Garda Síochána will continue to provide a professional, efficient and effective service to communities throughout the country.
With regard to the provision and deployment of Garda vehicles, the Deputy will appreciate that decisions in these areas are a matter for the Garda Commissioner in the context of his identified operational demands and in the light of available resources. In that regard, the Deputy may be aware that currently the Garda authorities are rolling out a supply of 170 new vehicles, which have been procured by means of an additional allocation of €3 million that I made available in 2012. These vehicles are being deployed on the basis of operational needs, including the revised policing arrangements for areas.
Additional information not given on the floor of the House
In addition, I am advised by the Garda authorities that the financial provision of €5 million in the Garda budget for the purchase and fit-out of Garda transport in 2013 will enable the Garda to obtain a significant number of new vehicles. Arrangements are being made to place the order for the new vehicles, which the Deputy can be assured will be deployed as effectively as possible in line with the Garda's operational requirements.
This represents a considerable financial investment in Garda transport, particularly at a time when the level of funding available across the public sector is severely limited. It is a clear indication of my commitment to ensure that, to the greatest extent possible, the Garda is provided with sufficient resources to enable it to provide an effective and efficient policing service.
As I have pointed out to the Minister several times, there is not an even distribution of gardaí around the country. There are also wide differences in the ways Garda cars are deployed. I have asked for information on that matter a number of times, but the Minister keeps giving me the same answer, that being, he cannot tell me because he does not have a function in that regard. If he is going to close Garda stations and if we are to have so-called smarter policing, it is essential that cars be available.
I was particularly concerned when I read the comments made by the independently appointed head of the Garda Síochána Inspectorate, Mr. Robert Olson, this morning when he referred to the plan as a Band-Aid. I accept that the fleet was allowed to move away from a position of being renewed on an incremental basis. Many Garda vehicles are at the 300,000 km limit.
How can the Minister avoid the very circumstance that he claims smarter policing is supposed to prevent, namely, desk-bound gardaí, if Garda cars are not available to transport gardaí from hubs to remote areas? If a station's only car is lost, an entire peripheral area would not get the type of coverage he has described.
I am sorry, but we are running out of time.
How can this be avoided in the fleet's absence, particularly in areas that have lost police stations?
The Garda currently has 2,436 vehicles, which is roughly equivalent to the numbers it had in 2007 at the height of the Celtic tiger. An additional €5 million has been made available to it this year for the purchase of additional vehicles. Indeed, it may come to pass that if we can achieve the same effective financial approach to work in 2013 in my Department that we achieved in 2012, there will be some additional funding available for Garda vehicles when we come to the autumn.
There are substantial numbers of Garda vehicles but I am sure that the Deputy will appreciate that, under the Garda Síochána Acts, the operational decisions are made by the Garda Commissioner. When it comes to the allocation of members of the force to particular locations in the country and when it comes to the allocation of Garda cars, those decisions must be made on the basis of operational need. It is the Commissioner and those working under him who make those decisions.
They do so in a manner that is also flexible because as the operational needs change, the allocation of members of the force to particular locations may change and the provision of vehicles may change. It is not the job and cannot be the role of the Minister for Justice and Equality to determine in what part of the country each Garda vehicle that is acquired should be located. That is simply not feasible.
Reference was made to 100 cars in 2004. A significant number of those cars are close to the 300,000 km limit. I do not buy what the Minister said. I do not ask him to micro-manage but the regional approach to the deployment of Garda personnel is discriminatory in that what one has, one holds. I indicated to the Minister on numerous occasions that there are wide variations and they cannot be accounted for by low rates of crime because it is obvious that is not the case in some of the regions.
4. Deputy Niall Collins asked the Minister for Justice and Equality the discussions he has had with the Garda representative bodies since 22 February 2013 in view of the withdrawal of co-operation of voluntary duties; the number of meetings; the issues discussed; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11770/13]
I have not met with any of the Garda representative bodies since 22 February 2013. The Garda Commissioner, whose function it is, under the Garda Síochána Act of 2005, to direct and control the Garda Síochána, has kept me fully briefed on developments as they arise in this particular matter. In fact, the Commissioner has recently met with the executive committees of all four of the Garda representative associations to discuss with them their concerns arising from the recent discussions on an extension of the Croke Park agreement.
While the withdrawal of voluntary service from non-public duty events is a regrettable and unfortunate development, I am informed by the Commissioner that an effective policing service continues to be provided right across our communities. Indeed, the recent successes of Operation Fiacla highlight the consequences of targeted, intelligence-led policing which has focused on the criminal activities of a minority in our society. I am confident that members of the force will continue, as they have for more than 90 years, to provide a professional policing service right across the country.
It is well recognised both in this country and the world over that one should have a healthy tension between the Minister of the day and some of the agencies under his or her remit. Unfortunately, what we have at the moment is an unhealthy tension. All of the issues are in the public domain and have been well aired. We need political leadership to clear the air and get us back to a healthy situation in terms of the tension that should exist between the representative associations and the Minister.
Before the Croke Park II agreement was even published, the Minister and his colleagues were spinning the story that it was fair and proportionate and that the higher paid were taking the pay cuts. However, that is not the case. It was insulting not alone to public servants, but to the country as a whole to say that what was contained in the agreement was fair and proportionate before the detailed document was published.
I speak in the interests of restoring morale and goodwill. As the Minister and Members are aware, we rely on the goodwill of members of An Garda Síochána every single day of the week. They bring a level of dedication to their job that goes far above the call of public service and public duty. They are effectively on duty on a 24-7 basis. Any garda who is worth his or her salt, which is the case with the vast majority of them, give such dedication to the job. The Minister said he was in touch with the representative associations on 22 February.
I did not say that.
Is that what the Minister said?
No, I said I have not met any of them since 22 February.
There is a time constraint.
Will the Minister initiate contact with the representative associations in order to clear the air? Morale and goodwill are intangible. One cannot quantify them financially or numerically. It is important to the policing function that is provided in this country. I say that constructively.
I am conscious that there has always been some degree of tension between whoever is Minister for justice of the day and the Garda representative bodies. Personally, I do not take that aspect of matters seriously. What I do take seriously is that the gardaí do their work well, which is the case, and that I do what I can to be supportive of them in the work they do. That is why I was so disappointed that the two Garda organisations withdrew from the talks process, failed to engage constructively, failed to set out through the aegis of the Labour Relations Commission and its good offices issues of genuine concern to members of the force and failed to do what was necessary to moderate the outcome of negotiations so as to shape them in a manner that may have addressed issues that they believe should have been addressed.
I was not the person during the course of the talks who said anything untoward or to cause upset or distress. I constantly urged both bodies to engage in the talks. I did not respond to some personal abuse and criticism that was voiced at me by members of both associations during the weeks leading to the outcome of the talks. The Deputy can check the record. All he will discover is that I engaged in a number of broadcasts and made a number of statements in the print media urging that the representative associations engage, participate and address the concerns of their members. It is a bitter disappointment to me that they chose not to do so. It is disingenuous that both bodies are now making a presentation to their members to mislead them into believing that they could not have participated because that is far from the truth.
I repeat again what I said earlier, which is that I am always available to meet with the representative bodies to discuss issues of concern to them, but what I cannot do in any such discussions is re-open in any shape or form the outcome of the negotiations that were completed in Lansdowne House in which a number of trade unions and representative bodies fully participated and which have produced an outcome that must now be voted upon by the members of various unions and by those whom the bodies represent. As to whether I will meet with bodies, of course I will. I met with the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors, AGSI, in the late autumn. I do not have the date on my file. Had the Garda Representative Association, GRA, been willing to meet with me I would have met it in the autumn period as well.
I am afraid the time has expired.
That is all I can do. My door is always open to meet and discuss issues but in the context of those coming through the door I cannot renegotiate the outcome of the talks.
5. Deputy Mick Wallace asked the Minister for Justice and Equality the number of complaints received by the Garda Siochana Ombudsman Commission since its inception in 2007; the number of these complaints submitted for investigation; the number of cases which resulted in criminal prosecutions; the number of cases which resulted in disciplinary processes against individual members of An Garda Siochana; if he will indicate if he is satisfied that the Ombudsman Commission provides sufficient independent oversight of An Garda Síochána; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11851/13]
The Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission commenced operations in May 2007. From May 2007 to the end of January 2013 the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission has received 13,673 complaints of which 7,718 were deemed to be admissible in accordance with the provisions of the Act of 2005. During this period the ombudsman advised that the commission referred 149 cases to the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions which has directed prosecutions in relation to 41 of these cases.
The application of discipline to members of the Garda Síochána is the responsibility of the Garda Commissioner. The information on the number of complaints to the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission under the 2005 Act which resulted in the imposition of disciplinary processes against individual members of the Garda Síochána has been requested from the Commissioner but was not available for today's answer. I will revert separately to the Deputy in this regard when the information is to hand.
The Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission is an independent body established under the Garda Síochána Act 2005. While funding for the ombudsman commission is channelled through my Department, as the Minister for Justice and Equality, I have no function in relation to the processing of individual complaints which are referred to the commission for investigation. The commissioners are nominated by the Government and appointed under presidential warrant following the passage of resolutions by both Houses recommending their appointment.
I am satisfied that the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission has been provided with appropriate powers under the 2005 Act to ensure independent oversight of the Garda Síochána and that it has effectively discharged its functions to date.
The Minister referred to the Garda Síochána Act 2005. The objectives of the commission were set out as being to establish a system for dealing with complaints that is efficient, effective and fair to all concerned,and, second, to promote public confidence in the system. Does the Minister admit that the recent comments of the UN rapporteur following her visit in November 2012 demonstrate that the institution of the ombudsman has failed to achieve both of those objectives?
There were over 13,000 complaints but only 149 of those were referred to the DPP, which does not seem like a great turnover. The UN human rights report expressed concerns over the excessive dependence by the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission on the Department of Justice and Equality. The rapporteur called for the creation of an entirely independent Garda ombudsman. The type of over-reliance on the Department of Justice and Equality referred to by the rapporteur was demonstrated recently when the Minister refused to order an ombudsman inquiry, under section 106, into the penalty points controversy, leaving the hands of the ombudsman tied. In that context, does the Minister have a date for the completion of the internal inquiry into that issue? We have been receiving reports that the Assistant Commissioner who is carrying out the investigation into the penalty points controversy is retrospectively trying to legitimise the malpractice that was rampant among senior gardaí. I am very worried about the transparency and accountability in this regard, especially given the fact that the Commissioner himself has pretty much rubbished the whole exercise.
I would be very surprised if the Minister could say that he is very happy with the functioning of the ombudsman's office. There are about 80 people working in the commission, occupying three different premises in the country. The commission is very costly but we are not really getting much bang for our buck. Does the Minister agree?
The Deputy managed, during the course of those questions, to make a variety of allegations against a variety of people, all of which were incorrect. The first allegation he made was that the Garda Commissioner has sought to rubbish the inquiry into ticket charges. I am not aware that the Commissioner has done that. I am aware that he is taking the matter very seriously and has required that it be fully investigated. In reply to the Deputy, I expect during the course of this month to receive the outcome of that investigation and I intend to publish it. That is the position in that regard.
The Deputy has made an allegation against another member of the force and said that he is trying to retrospectively justify what he refers to as unlawful conduct. I have no information to that effect but if the Deputy has such information, perhaps he will set it out in writing and furnish it to me, telling me on what basis he is making that allegation. It is unfortunate that a Member of this House should use the House to make allegations against individuals who are not in a position to respond.
As the Deputy knows, under the Garda Síochána Act 2005, the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission is independent and is not dependent on me, as Minister. Any individual can make a complaint to the commission, which will then independently determine whether there is prima facie basis for investigating a complaint and will then determine that an investigation, if appropriate, takes place. I have no hand, act or part in that determination and the Deputy is well aware of that. I cannot comment on what it is reported some UN rapporteur has said, given the manner in which it is quoted by the Deputy. However, in so far as anyone has reached a conclusion that the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission is not independent, he or she has clearly not read the legislation and does not know the manner in which the commission operates. Clearly, it would be completely inappropriate if I, as Minister, was in a position to interfere in any investigation that it undertakes.
The time has run out.
If I may respond ---
We are out of time. I gave the Deputy a warning that we were running out of time. I am only applying the rules here.
