Topical Issue Debate

Stardust Fire Coroner's Report

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

I thank the Minister of State for attending. Over the past two decades in the Dáil, I have raised the Stardust tragedy and its aftermath probably on hundreds of occasions, given the ongoing and heroic struggle for justice of the Stardust Victims and Relatives Committee, outstandingly led over the years by Ms Christine Keegan, Ms Antoinette Keegan, Ms Gertrude Barrett, Ms Brid McDermott and Mr. Jimmy Dunne, with the strong support of many others, including Ms Geraldine Foy and Mr. Robin Knox.

I greatly welcomed the valuable re-examination undertaken by Mr. Paul Coffey SC in 2009 and its further clarification of the utterly flawed conclusions of the earlier Keane tribunal report of 1982. However, a number of disturbing issues have recently been raised with me about the publication of the Coffey report and the apparent significant differences between the report as carried out and submitted to the Fianna Fáil-Green Party Government by the independent legal expert, Mr. Coffey, and the document published a month later by the Government.

I have before me excerpts from a copy of a document obtained through an FOI request by the researcher Ms. Geraldine Foy, namely, the Stardust report that was issued to the previous Government by Mr. Paul Coffey SC on 10 December 2008. Paragraph 5.12 states:

The real difficulty appears to lie in the fact that despite having made a finding based on evidence that the cause of the fire is unknown, the Tribunal has placed on the public record a “finding of fact” of criminal wrongdoing which is prima facie speculative and fraught with evidential and logical difficulties. Moreover, the finding is so phrased as to give the impression to a reasonable man or woman in the street that it is a finding established by evidence and not a mere hypothetical explanation for the fire.

Paragraph 5.13 then states:

I accept that this is profoundly unsatisfactory to the survivors and the bereaved. I also accept the Committee’s submission that such was the scale of the disaster that it has become a matter of communal if not national history to an extent that engages a public interest in ensuring that the public record of what happened is factually accurate and established by evidence. I further accept that a new inquiry is necessary if it is the only way of placing on the public record a finding that is based on evidence.

However, paragraph 5.13 of the Coffey report that was eventually published on 7 January 2009 states:

This is profoundly unsatisfactory to the survivors and the bereaved who through their Committee argue that such was the scale of the disaster that it has become a matter of communal if not national history ... It seems to me that the terms of resolutions under which the Tribunal was established by the Oireachtas require nothing less [than looking at new evidence].

The later and published version of the Coffey report omits the key statement that Mr. Coffey “further accept[s] that a new inquiry is necessary if it is the only way of placing on the public record a finding that is based on evidence.”

Will the Minister explain this material difference between the December 2008 Coffey report and the January 2009 Coffey report, which was brought before this House and which I welcomed on behalf of the 48 victims and their families? Why was the key sentence omitted from the final version of a report by an independent eminent legal person when published by the Government? It is further argued by members of the Stardust relatives and victims committee that there were 70 significant report alterations between the 10 December 2008 report issued to the Government by Mr. Paul Coffey SC and the final report of 7 January 2009. Is this the case? If it is, it is an extraordinary situation.

Is the Minister aware that a 2008 Garda letter, referred to in tab 31, appendix 9 of the Paul Coffey report, was neither published nor seen at any time by the families, their researchers or their representatives before 2010? This was a Garda letter referring to a basement at the Stardust nightclub, which did not exist. Above all, is the Minister aware that the committee and its supporters have consistently sought proof for this non-existent Stardust basement referred to in the Keane report but without success? Is it not clear that the non-existence of this basement was confirmed by An Garda Síochána in its 2004 review of the Foy report?

In 2009, after 28 years of campaigning by the victims and relatives committee, the report by Mr. Paul Coffey vindicated their long struggle to achieve some level of justice for their loved ones. They rightly believed the original flawed Keane report added horrific insult to injury. There is still a sense that there is not closure in this matter for many of the relatives of the victims of the Stardust fire and these material alterations, which they have discovered through a freedom of information request, make a strong case for a new Michael McDowell-type commission of investigation to finally establish what happened and to vindicate the names and families of the 48 tragic young victims.

Minister of State at the Department of Justice and Equality (Deputy Kathleen Lynch)

I am replying on behalf of the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter. I recognise that Deputy Broughan, who has been following this issue for as long as I can recall, is far more versed in it than I am. I promise to convey his remarks to the Minister. On behalf of the Minister for Justice and Equality, I would like to thank the Deputy for raising this matter. The Minister regrets that he is unable to be present today due to other business.

The Minister would like to again emphasise that irrespective of any differences of opinions, no one disputes the magnitude of the tragedy or the impact it had on the families concerned and on the wider community. Deputy Broughan made the point that closure is very difficult in this case.

In the limited time today, rather than reiterating the full history of the examination of the issues surrounding the Stardust fire, the Minister would simply note that Mr. Paul Coffey SC was appointed in 2008 by the then Government, with the agreement of the victims' committee, to review the case made by the committee for a new inquiry into the fire. Mr. Coffey publicly invited submissions from all interested parties and the committee gave extensive oral evidence and made written submissions as to their case for a new inquiry.

His report was published in January 2009 and he concluded that the original tribunal finding of arson was a hypothetical one only and that no one present on the night can be held responsible. He further concluded that in the absence of any identified evidence as to the cause of the fire, the most another inquiry would achieve would be another set of hypothetical findings, which would not be in the public interest.

The then Government accepted Mr. Coffey's findings and introduced motions in the Oireachtas in 2009 endorsing his conclusions and expressing sympathy with the families. These motions were passed by both Houses. By endorsing Mr. Coffey's conclusion that the finding of arson was hypothetical only and that no one present could be held responsible, the motions also addressed a long-standing stigma of suggested criminality which some of the victims and bereaved felt hung over all who had been in attendance on the night.

While Mr. Coffey's findings were welcomed, there continued to be dissatisfaction and, in time, proceedings were taken by a number of the families to the European Court of Human Rights. Last year the court rejected that application but only on time grounds. Since then, representatives for a number of the families have written to the Department of Justice and Equality and the Department of the Taoiseach making various claims and putting the Departments on notice of possible legal proceedings. Following consultation with the Attorney General's office, the Minister's Department has recently responded to the effect that it did not accept the conclusions arrived at in the correspondence and that legal proceedings along the lines indicated would be defended.

Notwithstanding that, to be of assistance to the Deputy, the Minister would like to make some general comments. The reference to withdrawn evidence is understood to relate to a reference to a basement on one of the maps used by the original tribunal. The fact is that Mr. Coffey would have been aware of this matter and it was a matter for him to assess it.

Turning to the question of Mr. Coffey's report, the position is that Mr. Coffey's final report was received by the Government on 7 January 2009. This is the report which was associated with the Government's decision to move motions in support of his recommendations and which was then put in the public domain. An earlier draft of the report had been submitted in early December, on the basis that Mr. Coffey had asked to be permitted to make amendments for the purposes of correction, accuracy and clarification prior to its publication.

For the avoidance of any doubt, I should make it clear that no attempt was made by the Minister's Department to influence Mr. Coffey's drafting or to suggest any amendments. Irrespective of any analysis of the earlier draft however, it is the report of 7 January which represents Mr. Coffey's final and entirely independent advice to the Government on this matter and it stands on its own in this regard.

While it is the case that there is understandable concern that it has not been possible to establish the cause of this dreadful fire with certainty, no grounds have been put forward which would enable the House to resile from Mr. Coffey's findings - effectively, that another inquiry would not be in a position to take this matter further.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

Would the Minister of State accept there are analogies between the conduct of the investigation into the Stardust disaster and, for example, Bloody Sunday where eventually the victims and relatives ended up with the Saville inquiry? I appreciate the Minister of State's good intentions to bring this matter to the Minister, Deputy Shatter, and to ask him if he would review all the departmental files in regard to the Coffey report and the concerns I have expressed. Will he look again at the possibility of a short, sharp commission of investigation under the 2004 legislation to attempt to bring closure to this matter?

The Minister of State referred to hypothetical findings and so on. She investigated the issue of the victims of the Magdalen laundries in great depth and did some outstanding work in that regard. There is much documentary evidence available, including the Foy report, complied by Geraldine Foy in 2004, a famous book by two young journalists from the northside, Tony McCullough and Neil Fetherstonhaugh, entitled, They Never Came Home, evidence from local residents and so on, which is totally at variance with the conclusion of Keane and Coffey that the actual cause cannot be found. Will the Minister look at that again?

Approximately seven parishes in the wider Coolock area were devastated and continue to have profoundly sad memories of that time. There was a sense in this House and in the Seanad when the Coffey report came out that we were close to getting closure but these recent revelations, through a freedom of information request and from other sources, have disturbed that and people still want some sort of closure, which we finally got with the Magdalen report a few weeks ago and with the Murphy and Ryan reports into other great tragedies in Irish history. That is the type of closure for which we are looking and perhaps a commission of investigation is the only way to go. The Minister of State might convey that to the Minister, Deputy Shatter.

Deputy Kathleen Lynch

I thank Deputy Broughan. No one could possibly imagine how people must feel in this regard, no matter the length of time that has passed. Closure is often very difficult.

The Deputy is quite correct that where an event has generated panic, it can be difficult to ascertain how it started and finished and the cause. One cannot say for certain what exactly happened and where responsibility lay. While we may all have drawn our own conclusions, it is very difficult to be absolutely certain. I will most definitely convey the Deputy's remarks to the Minister in the same manner in which he made his case.

Crime Prevention

Deputy Michael P. Kitt

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, for attending. I have raised in the House previously the issue of community alert and neighbourhood watch schemes in rural areas, particularly the rural part of east Galway, which I represent. I would like to draw the attention of the Minister of State to an aggravated burglary which took place last Friday night at the home of the parish priest in Caherlistrane, County Galway, the Very Reverend Pat O'Brien. As Fr. O'Brien pointed out, it was the second raid on his house. During the first raid, a few weeks ago, a small sum was taken from a Trócaire box. The second raid was more serious. Four men wearing balaclavas and gloves broke into the parochial house between 9 p.m. and 10 p.m. and tied up the priest. One of the men was carrying a crowbar. Fr. O'Brien, who is in his 60s, was the only occupant of the house at the time. The gang ransacked the house for over an hour before making off with a sum of cash. One of the gang's persistent demands was for gold. After the gang fled, Fr. O'Brien managed to free himself and raised the alarm at a neighbour's house. He was not seriously injured but is understood to be very traumatised by the incident. The gardaí in Tuam have reported that no arrests have been made.

Swift action is needed to address the rise in rural crime across the county of Galway. At the joint policing committee meetings that I have attended, public representatives from all parties and none have talked about the fact that ten Garda stations were closed in the county. They have stated that recruitment is required and that extra gardaí are required to address the growing problem. We also need the necessary vehicles, which I understand can be provided because there is some funding available. I hope the Minister will lift the ban on Garda recruitment. The public deserves a decent service.

At present, there are those who are making a career out of criminal activity, as is evident from the raid on the house of Fr. Pat O'Brien. This House has discussed the cash-for-gold industry, which appears to be a contributor to the increase in rural crime. One of the burglars who raided the house of Fr. Pat O'Brien was obsessed with gold. There have been numerous media articles on the theft of scrap metal. There are anecdotal reports on the theft of scrap metal, precious metals and jewellery to obtain cash. This matter is of particular public concern because of the rising level of theft fuelled by rising metal prices. Precious metal prices have increased by 50% since 2009. The reasons for the current focus on this form of theft are the economic downturn and the increase in metal prices worldwide. The relative ease of securing cash in the second-hand trade is also a factor. Obviously, there are no official statistics on the number of scrap metal sales or thefts. The second-hand trade, with the exception of pawnbroking, is not regulated by legislation. The pawnbroking industry is not the same as the cash-for-gold industry. Cash-for-gold businesses are currently not registered or legislated for in any specific way. Consequently, the general criminal law on stolen goods is used when there is crime in this area. There has been a Private Members' proposal on this. I hope that today or very shortly we will get some more information on what is happening in respect of the cash-for-gold issue.

Fr. O'Brien is a very forgiving man. It is reported in the newspaper that he said to one of the criminals that he would say mass for the raiders. It is indicative of his humility that he was able to identify with one of the raiders, who was good to him. He was terrified of another individual who raided his house. I have known Fr. Pat O'Brien for years and went to secondary school with him. It is typical of him to be forgiving and to give such an example in the approach to Easter week.

Deputy Kathleen Lynch

I am speaking on behalf of the Minister for Justice and Equality, who is unfortunately away on business and cannot attend. The Minister is very conscious of the deep distress that burglary and similar crimes can cause to householders in both urban and rural areas, in addition to the broader impact it can have in terms of fear of crime in our communities. He also shares the justifiable outrage of all decent people at those who commit aggravated burglaries in the homes of the elderly and more vulnerable. The Minister is also very conscious of the need to support strong partnerships between communities and local gardaí.

With regard to the policing response to burglaries, the Minister is fully confident that the Garda is doing everything in its power to bring the perpetrators of such crimes to justice. In this regard, he is in close touch with the Garda Commissioner and he is assured that An Garda Síochána is devoting all the resources necessary to confront those who seek to profit from burglary.

The Minister welcomes the progress being made as part of Operation Fiacla, which is focused on identifying and targeting gangs involved in burglaries throughout the country. Operation Fiacla is intelligence-driven and, as part of that operation, specific burglary initiatives have been implemented in each Garda region to target suspected offenders. The Garda authorities have indicated that, as of the end of February 2013, 4,226 persons have been arrested and 2,327 persons have been charged under the operation, reflecting the extent of the operation and the impact it is having. The Minister is also a strong supporter of the work of the community alert programme. His Department, along with the HSE, has for many years provided funding for this valuable national programme, which was set up initially in 1985 by Muintir na Tíre in association with the Garda authorities. This programme has since developed into a national movement comprising more than 1,300 local groups which work with the Garda to promote crime prevention and improve the security of older and vulnerable persons in the community. Community alert harnesses, in a modern context, the qualities of neighbourliness and mutual support which have long been characteristic of community life in Ireland.

Earlier this year, the Minister was pleased to participate with the Garda Commissioner in the launch of new Garda community crime prevention guidelines, which contain advice for those wishing to set up community alert, neighbourhood watch or similar groups and outline the support that their local community gardaí will provide. These new guidelines take account of societal changes which have occurred since the initial schemes were established and provide a step-by-step guide to the establishment of future schemes. They also enhance both individual and community participation in crime prevention.

The Garda national model of community policing aims to build upon and enhance good community policing practice. It recognises the need for dedicated community police officers, of whom there are approximately 1,000 deployed in communities countrywide. It is also worth emphasising, as the national model does, that all gardaí have a role to play in community policing, and this is very much a part of the general ethos of the force. To further underline the commitment of the Garda authorities to community alert, the Commissioner has signed a renewed memorandum of understanding with Muintir na Tíre, which provides an updated framework for the operation of the programme. The Minister will continue to support the Garda in its ongoing operations to clamp down on those who seek to perpetrate cowardly attacks on innocent householders. He also reaffirms his support for the operation of the community alert programme and for effective partnerships generally between communities and local gardaí in tackling all forms of crime.

I again thank the Deputy for raising this important matter which impacts not only on the individuals or households burgled but also on entire communities.

Deputy Michael P. Kitt

I again emphasise the need for community initiatives in rural areas and particularly community alert and neighbourhood watch schemes in bigger towns. For some years it was difficult to establish a community alert scheme in a town because people were not directly affected by this type of crime. However, these days meetings in rural areas to discuss the establishment of community alert and neighbourhood watch schemes are well attended. A useful tool in community alert schemes is texting by mobile phone which has proved very effective. I have been in people's homes at the time they have received text messages about unusual events occurring in the area and I know this provide them with great assurance. They often also receive follow-up texts providing an explanation for what has happened. Resources are badly needed in this regard and it is welcome that such a measure will be supported by the Minister. Texting arrangements are crucially important in the reporting of unusual activity.

Perhaps the Minister of State might respond to my query about recruitment and the provision of Garda vehicles which are important in dealing with crime and vandalism, as occurred in the case of Fr. O'Brien. As regards attacks on people's homes, as has happened on many occasions in the case of people living alone, particularly the elderly, the focus of the Minister and the Garda Síochána should be on ensuring those committing these crimes are dealt with.

Deputy Kathleen Lynch

I sympathise with the Deputy and Fr. O'Brien who, as correctly pointed out by the Deputy, is a most forgiving man. While I am not certain that forgiveness will do in this instance, it would be nice if we could all adopt that attitude.

On recruitment, like all other Departments, the Department of Justice and Equality, owing to the gap between what we take in in taxation and what we spend and, as a result of our being in a bailout programme, our not being in full control of resources, is required to make substantial savings year on year. There are, therefore, no immediate plans to engage in further recruitment to the Garda Síochána. However, the Government is confident that in the event of our exiting the bailout programme at the end of this year and once again being in full control of resources, should further gardaí be required as a result of retirements or personnel leaving the force to do other things, this issue will be reconsidered.

Prescription Charges

Deputy Eamonn Maloney

I am sure the Minister of State, Deputy Alex White, will share in my extending congratulations to the National Consumer Agency on its report published this week which highlights the variations in charges for prescription drugs in this jurisdiction. The agency is to be commended for its work. I would like to give a flavour of the position in this regard.

The media and politicians have tended to concentrate largely on those producing medicines-drugs. I have for some time believed pharmacies have been keeping their heads down as regards the variations in charges for medicines-drugs. The ones who are losing as a result are the consumer and, through the drug refund scheme, the taxpayer. I will give an example of what is set out in the NCA study which applies nationally. The percentage difference in price of individual prescription medicines ranges from 37% to 119%. The average percentage difference across all products nationally is 56%. In terms of how the consumer is being misled, the average price variation among the 39 prescription medicines included in the study is 30% and 27% in Galway and Waterford, respectively. The corresponding figure for Cork and Limerick is 29%. These are huge variations.

I have never believed in self-regulation. Historically, it has not worked well in this country. This is proof positive that pharmacies, left to their own devices, will engage in this behaviour. They have some explaining to do. I will give an example in Dublin from the study. The cost of a particular drug used in the treatment of stomach complaints varies in price from €19.96 to €42.33, a difference of 112%. Given the variations in price of the same product in a small city like Dublin, pharmacies have some questions to answer.

On regulation, as legislators, we cannot put our trust in pharmacies. I do not include pharmacies in general, as I know the prices in most pharmacies in my area, of which there is a large selection, including branches of one or two of the large multiples, are modest. We must address this issue. As legislators, we may have run out of time in doing so.

Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Alex White)

I thank the Deputy for raising this important issue. As indicated by him, a recently published survey by the National Consumer Agency found substantial variations in the prices charged for prescription medicines in pharmacies. At national level, the percentage difference found in the prices of 39 individual prescription medicines ranged from 37% to 199%, the average percentage difference being 56%.

The HSE reimburses pharmacists for products dispensed under the General Medical Services and other community drug schemes, including the drug payment scheme, in accordance with the reimbursement rates set out in the list of reimbursable items.

Under the Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Act 2009, the fees and allowances paid by the HSE to pharmacists were reduced in 2009 and again in 2011. These reductions resulted in cumulative savings to the HSE of approximately €154 million per annum. These measures included a reduction in the wholesale mark-up on drugs from 17.66% to 8%. In addition, the retail mark-up payable under the drug payment scheme and the long-term illness scheme was reduced from 50% to 20%. The reduction in the cost of medicines should be of benefit to all patients who hold a DPS card, irrespective of whether they reach the €144 per month threshold. I would be very disappointed if all pharmacists were not passing on the benefits of lower prices and mark-ups to patients.

I urge customers, as best they can, to consult the HSE website to check the prices of their prescription medicines. If they are being charged more than the price listed - that is, if they are being charged more than a 20% retail mark-up, as I mentioned - they should raise it with their pharmacy. I accept it may not always be easy for patients to do this, but is also open to them to move their custom to a different pharmacy if they are dissatisfied with the prices being charged by their current pharmacy.

The Department of Health is also raising the issue of price transparency with the regulatory body for pharmacists, the Pharmaceutical Society of Ireland, PSI. While it would not be realistically possible to display the price of each of the approximately 7,000 medicines currently on the market in Ireland, the PSI is being asked to examine how greater price transparency can be achieved.

In addition to the measures I outlined, I wish to advise that the Health (Pricing and Supply of Medical Goods) Bill 2012, Committee Stage of which was passed in the Dáil last week, provides for the introduction of a system of generic substitution and reference pricing, which will greatly assist in resolving the situation the Deputy has raised.

It is important to note that the top two products identified by the National Consumer Agency as having the largest percentage price variation nationally are Losec and Zoton. Both of these products belong to a group of drugs known as proton pump inhibitors, which will be one of the first to be assessed for interchangeability and reference pricing once the Health (Pricing and Supply of Medical Goods) Bill 2012 is commenced. This legislation will promote price competition among suppliers and pharmacists and ensure that lower prices are paid for these medicines, resulting in further savings for both taxpayers and patients.

Deputy Eamonn Maloney

I thank the Minister of State for his comprehensive reply. Like others, I welcome the proposed Health (Pricing and Supply of Medical Goods) Bill, which has been long awaited. I am glad that the Government has seen fit to move on it. I look forward to seeing how it will operate. The Minister of State is well briefed on this area. There is the issue of price variation, particularly in this city, where one can pay double the price depending on the distance one lives from the city. If one adds such price variation to the prices of medication under the drugs refund scheme, which the Minister of State highlighted, patients are suffering a double whammy. The consumer is being mugged with regard to the prices charged for medications in certain chemists. Under the drugs refund scheme, the taxpayer is being mugged, because with medicines priced at this level they can easily reach the ceiling to which the Minister of State referred. These are the anomalies in the system. I compliment the Department on the work it has done in this area and I look forward to the new legislation and to the policing that will take place in regard to pharmacies.

Deputy Alex White

I reiterate that the concern the Deputy has raised is one that is widely shared. The National Consumer Agency report is useful because it focuses public attention on the particular instances the agency has addressed. The Deputy is absolutely right that this is a matter of continuing concern. It is of continuing concern to me, as a Minister of State with responsibility in the area, to the Minister for Health and to the Government generally that such variations in pricing can occur, sometimes in circumstances in which pharmacists are relatively close to each other and in the same area of a city. This needs to be rectified and, at the very least, explained and understood. Therefore, the Deputy is right to raise this issue.

The legislative and other measures that the Government has taken will have a real effect, particularly the legislation on generic substitution legislation which I mentioned, which the Deputy acknowledged and which has passed Committee Stage in the House. Once the legislation is enacted, the Irish Medicines Board, IMB, will commence assessment of medical products and groups of medicinal products to establish groups of interchangeable medicinal products. Once the IMB has published such a group, the HSE can set a reference price for it. There is also provision in the legislation for reference pricing, which involves comparisons with the prices of medicines in other comparable countries. The enactment and the operation of that legislation will have an important impact on this issue, about which we are all concerned. It is something about which we need to be vigilant. The agency report is very helpful in that regard.

Electricity Transmission Network

Deputy Michelle Mulherin

I am delighted the Minister is in the Chamber to take this matter. I know he had an important engagement with the representative organisation of some major wind industry leaders and ambassadors, the Irish Wind Energy Association, today. I welcome his announcement today that the REFIT scheme is to be extended by two years to 2017. I asked the Minister to consider that issue as recently as last month and I am delighted he is pursuing this course. I know from his announcement that his intention is to bring certainty to wind planning. This has been a particular problem for areas with poor grid development. They have been unable to develop projects and are being discommoded by the slow pace of grid development in the country, which is something outside their control.

This brings me to the nub of the problem I want to highlight. As the Minister will know, there is a massive wind resource in Mayo and we are only too willing to develop its potential. Unfortunately, the standard of the grid in that county is that of a bog road, compared to the superhighway we need to get the electricity out. We do not have a superhighway grid; we only have a bog-road one.

I very much welcome the plans to develop the grid into the west, which will represent a €240 million investment in the area by EirGrid. A 400 kV line will go into County Mayo, which is much needed. However, at the rate matters are progressing, that line will not be in place until 2019 to 2020. I know the Minister indicated as recently as today that he is concerned at the rate at which we are achieving installed capacity. Currently, it is 180 MW per year, on average, and he would like to see it at 250 MW per year.

I am asking the Minister to set up a pilot project in north Mayo. In 2012 EirGrid made a contentious decision to increase the total amount of wind energy connected to the existing 110 kV network under Gate 3 in this area from 170 MW to 340 MW, but the line does not have that capacity. People were made offers prior to that decision. They were offered 60 MW and the understanding was that there would be up to 180 MW on that line.

The offers exceed the capacity on the line and the line is saturated. This, and the constraints and curtailments that EirGrid's decision will impose on them pose a challenge for the financial viability and realisation of projects that have come a long way through the planning process and are due to sign connection agreements under Gate 3 this summer. They will not be as bankable as they were and the money that people have already spent on grid connection and the planning and development of their projects is rendered more speculative because they cannot be sure of the outcome.

I ask the Minister to be innovative. We cannot wait till 2019. I know there is a plan to develop a circuit between Ballina and Castlebar which would reinforce the line and allow the 340MW uprate. Part of the area would be an environmentally sensitive special area of conservation. We will not build a line there overnight. It will take at least five years. There is a great deal of new smart technology in this area including special protection and dynamic line rating schemes. I ask that some of the projects in the Mayo area receive special attention because of the way they have been discommoded due to EirGrid's decision, as well as being a pilot project. I am sure this problem does not affect only Mayo. I am sure it is a problem in other areas with massive resources but no grid. The Minister could direct EirGrid to invest in this and give a commitment to do so by the end of summer so that people are not required to sign connection agreements under Gate 3 and spend hundreds of thousands of euro when they do not know if they can get finance from the bank to build the projects. We must consider other solutions if we are to achieve the Minister's objective which is to increase installed capacity per annum. Otherwise, we will not reach the 2020 targets because of the weaknesses in the grid in the areas where we have the resource.

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Pat Rabbitte)

I can confirm that I was able to make several changes to REFIT 1 and 2 which I announced this morning at the spring conference of the Irish Wind Energy Association and that they will meet the requests that Deputy Mulherin has been making to me for some time in respect of the operation of REFIT. They will also greatly enhance the installed capacity in the seven or eight years to 2020 which should put us in a position to meet our targets comfortably. As Deputy Mulherin knows it is EirGrid's role, as the national transmission system operator, to develop and upgrade the transmission system in order to meet ongoing and future electricity needs.

The European smart grid task force defined a smart grid as "an electricity network that can cost effectively integrate the behaviour and actions of all users connected to it - those who generate, those who consume and those who do both - in order to ensure an economically efficient, sustainable power system with low losses and high levels of quality and security of supply and safety".

Smart grids are not smart meters and vice versa. However, smart grids can include smart meters. Simply put, smart grids are electrical networks which have intelligence built into them in order to enable more efficient operation of the entire electricity supply system and to facilitate distributed, embedded generation and demand control measures. They are enabling for the system operator and also for generators and electricity customers. The smart grid is a key enabler of a future low carbon electricity system that facilitates demand side efficiency, increases the share of renewable and distributed generation and enables consumer participation.

I understand that EirGrid has recently provided the Deputy with a briefing on how the overall Grid25 strategy will include the deployment, where appropriate, of smart grid technologies that will help system operators use grid infrastructure more efficiently. EirGrid's Grid25 programme is a series of projects to upgrade the current electricity system while continuing to operate and maintain a safe, secure and reliable system. EirGrid has extensive work under way in the smart grid sphere, including its involvement in the Smart Grid Innovation Hub in a collaborative initiative by EirGrid and the National Digital Research Centre, NDRC, and in the EirGrid announcement of demonstration projects in the smart grid sector, as well as through EirGrid's DS3 programme in the facilitation of renewables area, for delivering a secure, sustainable electricity system.

EirGrid is also continuing to implement and trial smart grid technologies such as real-time condition monitoring tools, advanced demand side management techniques for example, smart devices in the home, extensive use of ICT infrastructure to communicate from the National Control Centre to key grid users and use of innovative transmission infrastructure technology, for example, super conductors, all allowing for more efficient and secure operation of the power system in real time. EirGrid and the Northern Ireland operator, SONI, support several demonstration projects in the smart grid sector in order to encourage the development of a smarter grid in Ireland and Northern Ireland.

The Government, in its policy statement on the strategic importance of transmission and other energy infrastructure which was published in July 2012, underlined the need and urgency for new energy infrastructure to be developed both in the national interest and from a European perspective. In addition to highlighting the importance of the interests of individual energy consumers, the policy statement was conscious that public acceptance and understanding of energy infrastructure is a major challenge. This requires public confidence that projects and programmes adhere to the highest international standards of safety, health and environmental and visual impact, and technology choice.

Continued progress made with the Grid 25 programme and other essential energy infrastructure initiatives will have positive impacts for all local communities in underpinning regional and economic development and jobs. As regards Deputy Mulherin's argument I am aware that EirGrid is considering at present whether measures would be possible to facilitate the connection of additional wind generation in areas of Ireland, including Mayo, while the development of vital grid infrastructure developments is ongoing in parallel.

Deputy Michelle Mulherin

I thank the Minister for his response. I acknowledge that I have had discussions with EirGrid which were helpful. I am asking that something more firm, like a commitment, would be given by next summer because investors in projects are being asked to spend a lot of money on signing up connection agreements by that date and they need to know where they stand in respect of the implementation of smart grid technology to stretch capacity on the existing structure. Unless we take this innovative approach and try to upgrade it and get more out of it, which the technology allows, we will not realise our wind or wave or any other capacity potential because the final infrastructure is many years down the line. We need to consider all the other options. My understanding is that the cost of some of the smart grid technologies would be borne to a great extent by the generators. I am not saying that there are not cases where there may be some socialisation of the cost. These projects are very far advanced and need this type of assurance from EirGrid and while I respect the fact that they have to do their job the Minister's interest is in achieving the renewable energy targets for wind-generated electricity. I am asking that they might be guided in that direction.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

The developers will have received a fillip from this morning's announcement, and the necessary certainty that they seek. The consultation process in respect of curtailment and scheduling took a great deal longer than anybody could have predicted three and a half years ago.

It is also true that EirGrid has not been able to deliver as quickly as might have been anticipated for a variety of reasons. The way is now clear.

There is an analysis under way of the large number of wind generation sites seeking to connect to the grid. After it is completed, it is EirGrid's intention to specify where further studies on smart grid technologies might take place. I do not want to be dragged into telling EirGrid how to do its job or pre-empt the analysis. I understand, however, EirGrid will consider including County Mayo, among other areas, in further studies to commence this summer on this topic.

Dáil Éireann debate - Wednesday, 27 Mar 2013