Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 23 Apr 2013

Vol. 799 No. 4

Order of Business

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take No. 8 - motion re: proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the terms of the Agreement between the European Community and the Republic of South Africa, back from committee; No. 9 - motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the terms of the Framework Agreement between the European Union and the Republic of Korea, back from committee; No. 10 - motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the terms of the Framework Agreement between the European Community and the Republic of Indonesia, back from committee; No. 11 - motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the sectoral plan in accordance with section 31(6) of the Disability Act 2005, back from committee; and No. 2 - Companies Bill 2012 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that Nos. 8 to 11, inclusive, shall be decided without debate; and the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. and shall adjourn on the adjournment of Private Members' business which shall be No. 99 – motion re public sector pay and conditions which shall be taken on the conclusion of the opening speeches of No. 2 or at 7.30 p.m. whichever is the later and adjourn after 90 minutes.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

There are two proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 8 to 11, inclusive, without debate, agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal that the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. agreed to? Agreed.

Deputy Micheál Martin

Last week, I asked the Taoiseach on the Order of Business when we could expect the protection of maternal life Bill emanating from the work of the expert group which worked on the A, B and C cases. He indicated that the legislation would be introduced in the House this week. I understand he said earlier that it is now under active consideration.

The Taoiseach might indicate whether a Government Minister spoke to The Sunday Times on the Bill and gave the information on the Spanish inquisition-type approach to a suicidal woman requesting a termination. How did the detail of the legislation get to The Sunday Times? That kind of leaking is making a complex and sensitive situation worse and is not helpful to the entire process. For the past 48 hours, people have been talking about nothing else but the information contained in The Sunday Times. The Minister for Health, Deputy Reilly, did not deny it as such. If one reads his statement carefully, it is a nuanced explanation of what would not happen as opposed to what is in the legislation. Are the heads of the Bill ready to be published? I think the Taoiseach indicated last week that it would be forwarded to the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children and that it would be published this week. Will it be published this week or next week? Will the Taoiseach update the House on when it can expect it?

The Taoiseach

I said last week that it was intended that the heads of the Bill would be completed by Government and that they would then be published and sent to the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children for its deliberation and analysis. The Government had a discussion on this matter today but it was not concluded, so the heads of the Bill have not yet been approved by Government. The legislation cannot be published until the heads have been approved when they will go to the Joint Oireachtas on Health and Children. The Bill will then be prepared and finalised. The Cabinet committee will deal with the heads and give its views.

Last week I did not say the legislation would be published but that it was the intention to have the heads of the Bill approved by Government. The Government had a discussion on it today but the heads were not finalised, so the matter has not been sent to the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children.

Deputy Micheál Martin

On a point of order, I can ask about promised legislation.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is right.

Deputy Micheál Martin

In regard to what was provided to The Sunday Times, which came from a top source, does that constitute legislation promised or what are we to make of it?

The Taoiseach

I have no idea at all about how speculation gets into some of the newspapers and, therefore, I do not comment on it.

Deputy Micheál Martin

The Taoiseach has no idea at all.

The Taoiseach

None.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

The Taoiseach might remember 6 November 2012 when he announced the site for the new national children's hospital. When will the legislation be published which will allow for a development board to be put in place to start the work? At the time, the Taoiseach promised works could start once the hospital decanted and that that would take six months but without a development board and a remit, one cannot submit planning applications and so on. Will the Taoiseach also inform the House whether that legislation, which has been delayed for some bizarre reason, will contain permission-----

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

One cannot discuss the details of legislation.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

-----for a national maternity hospital? Will other legislation be required to give effect to a promise made by the previous Government and this one that a new maternity hospital would be built? Is a second Bill required?

The Taoiseach

Obviously, this is one of the largest infrastructural projects that will ever be undertaken in the country. Currently, the project is to be in the Deputy's constituency but one never knows whether the boundary will be redrawn at some time in the future. In any event, there is a requirement for a number of boards to be appointed. I expect the Minister for Health to bring an updated report to the Cabinet, probably next week, on the developments. There is work that could be undertaken pretty much immediately adjacent to St. James's in respect of preparation for elements of what will be the national children's hospital.

Clearly, an issue arises with regard to a new national maternity hospital and the Minister for Health is dealing with that matter separately.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

Last night, RTE's "Prime Time" reminded us once again of the absolutely disastrous circumstances pertaining to social housing. It reminded us that there are 100,000 people – families – on the housing waiting list. This is the highest number ever in the history of the State. The situation continues to worsen, against a background where there are more empty housing units in the State than ever before. I have asked the Taoiseach repeatedly in this Chamber, during Leaders' Questions, Taoiseach's questions and the Order of Business, when this House will get to discuss the housing Bill, which was on the legislative programme for last year and which is on it again this year. Despite this, we still do not have the Bill before us to give the House a chance to discuss this most serious of crises which is affecting 100,000 families in the State.

The Taoiseach

There are three Bills in respect of housing. The first, dealing with housing rents, will be dealt with in this session. The second will be later in the year and the third will not be dealt with until next year.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

What are the second and third Bills?

The Taoiseach

The second concerns housing assistance payments, HAPs.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

So the third Bill will not be dealt with at all this year.

The Taoiseach

The Deputy may feel free to request a debate on housing at the appropriate time at the Whip's meeting. I am sure the Whip will be quite happy to accommodate him.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

On promised legislation, what is the current position on the health information Bill? To what extent have heads been agreed? When is it likely to come before the House? When is the Garda Síochána (compensation for malicious injuries) Bill likely to come before the House? Have the heads been agreed yet?

The Taoiseach

The latter will be later this year. The health information Bill will be early next year.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

Will the Government help to fund the transportation of fodder, including hay, from England to help feed the animals that are starving here today? This is a crisis.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Has the Deputy a question on legislation?

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

I am asking this in light of the existence of the strategic infrastructure committee whose job is to deal with disasters. This is as big a disaster as the Taoiseach will ever preside over.

Last year, it was seen fit to stop the ferry serving Dursey Island from ferrying animals over and back.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is a parliamentary question.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

No; it is not. I will explain and then I will finish. The cable car for carrying animals over and back was to be replaced with a ferry, which has now been removed. The Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton, should note it is not a laughing matter. There is nothing to smile about. If she had animals on Dursey Island, she would like to see some infrastructure in place to take them over and back. It is not a joke. Will the Taoiseach answer my two specific and very important questions?

The Taoiseach

The fodder is coming in from Britain at the moment by truck. There were 75 truckloads last weekend, organised by one of the major co-operatives. It is not a matter that requires legislation.

I do not know the details about the Dursey Island cable car and what has happened to it but I have been aware of its existence for many years. People from the west had commitments in respect of another cable car to an island off the west coast but it never materialised at all. Dursey Island was the prototype the individuals concerned were examining. I suggest Deputy Michael Healy-Rae raise the matter during the Topical Issue debate. The Leas-Cheann Comhairle, in his beneficence, will probably approve it for him.

Deputy Kevin Humphreys

Pensions legislation was to be introduced to change the priority of pensioners' benefit following the winding up of defined benefit schemes. It was to effect change regarding the 100% priority given to pensioners, allowing for a better return to existing and former employees who have not yet retired. I have been contacted by a number of people who face the winding up of their pension funds on 2 May after having made contributions to the funds for over 20 years. They face circumstances in which only 20% of their funds will be left. Legislation was promised to balance this out, especially given what happened with Waterford Glass. What is the current position on the legislation? Unfortunately, it will not come through quickly enough for the people who are to see their defined benefit pension schemes wound up on 2 May.

The Taoiseach

I understand the case of the defined benefit private pension scheme is before the European Court of Justice. Obviously, this will take its course in respect of the Waterford Glass case. With regard to pensions legislation generally, the matter is being examined in detail. It is technical and complex. The Minister must receive the advice of the Attorney General. We shall update the House as progress is made.

Deputy Patrick O'Donovan

Will the Taoiseach state when the consumer and competition Bill will be before the House? As he will appreciate, the issue has ramifications for the farming industry, particularly given the strain farmers are already under because of the lack of fodder and the weather. Farming organisations are very anxious to see the legislation before the Dáil as early as possible to ensure there will be a level playing field regarding what farmers get for what they produce.

The Taoiseach

I can confirm for the Deputy that the consumer and competition Bill will be dealt with in this session.

Deputy Joe Higgins

Will the Taoiseach state whether all Stages of the protection of maternal life Bill will have been passed definitively before the summer recess?

Now that the Taoiseach has laid down the law for the Minister for Social Protection and declared that it is a question of austerity as usual, will he proceed with legislation to cut public sector wages before 1 July, as he announced previously?

The Taoiseach

I said to Deputy Martin that before we produce the protection of maternal life Bill, the heads must be approved by the Government and sent to committee for debate. The Bill will then have to be prepared and put through the Houses of the Oireachtas. I hope it can be dealt with and enacted before the House rises for the summer recess. It will probably be the second or third week in July, depending on how business goes. I do not want to confirm that because it is a sensitive Bill that requires proper analysis to give everybody the opportunity to have his or her say on it. It is so important. The lives of women and the unborn are central so I do not want to be too prescriptive or dictatorial about when it might actually be concluded, but I hope it can be enacted before the House rises for the summer.

Deputy Joe Higgins

What about the legislation on public sector wages that was promised?

The Taoiseach

I will have to come back to the Deputy on that.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

In light of the very honest and open interview by Marian Finucane of a certain Edmund Honohan last week, is there any chance that the Taoiseach will get the two Honohan brothers, including the eminent Mr. Honohan of the Central Bank, together in respect of the Central Bank (Consolidation) Bill?

They might understand that what one is advising is totally contrary to the policies of the Central Bank and what is proposed by the Government in terms of the repossession of second and family homes, which the Government said was sacrosanct and would be exempt from any type of tax.

The genie is out of the bottle in terms of the title of the Bill. According to the Taoiseach, it will be titled the Protection of Maternal Life Bill. Prior to the election, he promised in a letter that he would not introduce abortion under any circumstances. Many of his supporters countrywide have been telling me "Enda will not do this and Enda will not do that: we know Enda, he will not do it." The Bill is now listed on the Government's legislative programme and will come before the House prior to the summer recess. This legislation is a red herring.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy cannot speak to the content of the Bill now.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Surely anybody who is suicidal is not in a position to make life decisions, be it in relation to abortion or anything else. What is being propagated in this regard is a farce. The Taoiseach will have to face the people on this too.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The first issue is-----

Deputy Mattie McGrath

The Central Bank (Consolidation) Bill. The Honohan brothers might get together and give the Taoiseach some advice.

The Taoiseach

I might pass on Deputy McGrath's request to them.

The supervision and enforcement element of the banking Bill is due before the House this week. The Central Bank (Consolidation) Bill will follow when that has been completed.

On the other matter mentioned by the Deputy, following enactment of the maternal life protection Bill the law will not have changed but the necessary legal clarity and certainty for medical personnel who must intervene on behalf of women and their unborn children when complexities in pregnancies arise will be in place. It is necessary to deal with that issue. The legislation will provide certainty, clarity and understanding in terms of what is involved in this matter.

Deputy Willie O'Dea

I wish to ask the Taoiseach about two items of legislation. When can we expect the legislation to provide for the dissolution of the county enterprise boards and transfer of their functions to Enterprise Ireland? On the question asked by Deputy Humphreys, can the Taoiseach say precisely when the legislation, promised often by the Minister for Social Protection, the purpose of which is to provide that in the event of a defined benefit pension scheme wind-up the priority order will be changed, will be introduced?

The Taoiseach

The legislation dealing with wind-up of the county enterprise boards will be introduced this session. On the second matter, detailed technical and complex advice is required. The Minister has asked the Attorney General for advice on the matter. I cannot give a definitive date for introduction of that legislation.