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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 20 Jun 2013

Vol. 807 No. 4

Leaders' Questions

Yesterday, the truth of the Government's cut to students with special needs became clear when the National Council for Special Education announced that the 42,500 special needs students will have their allocation of resulting hours cut by 12% at the start of the new school term. This means that children with autism, severe emotional disturbance, severe learning disabilities and assessed syndromes will have their special teaching hours cut by half an hour per week from four and a quarter hours to three and three-quarter hours, starting from next September. This will be more than an hour and a quarter less per week than the same student received in 2011 and constitutes an overall reduction of 25%. Similarly, students availing of special needs assistants will have their allocations cut by 10% from next September, with many losing their allocation to a designated special needs assistant.

On foot of increasing student enrolments in schools, 42,500 students will require resource teaching hours this September, which is an increase from the equivalent figure of 38,500 students last year. Similarly, 22,000 students in schools will require special needs assistants, which is an increase from the figure of 20,000 students last year. This increased student enrolment is being recognised by the Government for mainstream students who do not have a special educational need through the hiring of 450 additional mainstream teachers at primary level and 450 additional mainstream teachers at second level in order to maintain standard pupil-teacher ratios. Why are students with special educational needs not being treated in the same way by hiring the additional numbers of resource teachers and special needs assistants that are necessary to ensure they are not obliged to endure cuts? Why is the Government targeting its drive for savings in education on the most vulnerable students in the education system?

Hear, hear. It is also a breach of the programme for Government. It is disgraceful.

First, neither the financial allocation for special education needs nor the personnel allocation for special education needs is being reduced.

It was not increased.

The financial allocation for special education needs in 2011 was €1.3 billion and the allocation in 2013 is €1.3 billion.

The Tánaiste is obsessed with figures.

The number of resource teachers currently is 9,950 and that has not been reduced. The number of special needs assistants is 10,575 and that is not being reduced. If one considers the totality of the education system, at present there are approximately 59,000 teachers working therein, 32,000 of them at primary level and 27,000 at post-primary level. Of those teachers, 9,950 are resource teachers or learning support teachers. In addition, there are 695 teachers in special classes and 1,078 teachers in special schools. In other words, there are in total 11,700 teachers whose sole function is to support children with special educational needs. In addition, there are 10,575 special needs assistants or in other words, for every five mainstream teachers in the system, there are two people, between special resource teachers, learning support teachers and special needs assistants, who are specifically dedicated to working with children with special needs.

What has been happening is the numbers presenting for special needs assistants and for resource teachers have been increasing. For example, last year the increase was approximately 10%. As for what the Minister for Education and Skills is doing in this regard, the National Council for Special Education has in the first instance published highly detailed policy advice as to how the resources should be allocated. This is the first time that the allocation system has been considered in detail for approximately 20 years. Schools are being encouraged by the National Council for Special Education to consider the way in which the resources are being used and, for example, to use team teaching where that is possible, to ensure that individual children do not see any actual reduction in the resource hours provided.

Green jerseys and team teaching.

In addition, the Minister has asked the National Council for Special Education to establish a working group to begin immediately to develop a proposal for a revised allocation mechanism for learning support and resource teachers. The aim of this new mechanism will be to ensure that learning support and resource teachers are targeted at those schools and children who need them most.

A disgraceful answer.

There is one minute for a supplementary question from Deputy McConalogue.

I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle.

That is a 10% cut. He lied to the Dáil.

Withdraw that remark.

He misled the Dáil.

(Interruptions).

Sorry, Deputy McGrath-----

It is a 10% cut to children with special needs-----

A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, on a point of order-----

-----with an additional 4,900 such children entering the system in September-----

No, Deputy, this is Leaders' Questions.

-----and the Tánaiste is misleading the House and is giving out misinformation.

On a point of order, the Deputy said the Tánaiste has lied. He has accused him of lying.

Deputy Durkan should stop.

They are attacking the most vulnerable people in society.

The Deputy should withdraw that remark.

I call Deputy McConalogue. The Deputy should resume his seat.

The Deputy used-----

A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, this is a very serious-----

A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, may I make my point?

This is Leaders' Questions and there are no interruptions.

A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, this is a very serious issue.

I am sorry but in the course of that, the Deputy accused the Minister of lying.

A Deputy

Deputy Durkan should cheer up.

Get out the white coat.

The Minister was accused of lying. Is the Leas-Cheann Comhairle going to deal with that?

This is Leaders' Questions.

Can the Leas-Cheann Comhairle deal with the accusation of lying?

I will deal with that later.

This is a very serious issue.

Get out the straitjacket.

Is Deputy Durkan as concerned about children with special needs?

This is a serious issue that requires the attention of every Deputy in this House.

Unfortunately, the Tánaiste's response shows that he does not have a clue as to the impact this will have on special needs students from September. Nowhere in his response has he acknowledged that this will lead to a reduction of half an hour for almost every student in receipt of special teaching hours starting in the new Dáil term. If we were to apply the Tánaiste's logic to pensioners, for example, and say that because there are now more pensioners but the budget will remain the same, every pensioner would have to take a 12% cut from September, nobody would agree that that was not anything but a cut.

Regarding mainstream students, the Tánaiste's Government is increasing the number of teachers in the system this September to ensure there are no cuts in standard pupil-teacher ratios.

Is the Deputy opposed to that?

Why will he not apply the same logic and give the same fair treatment-----

This is more cuts for people with disabilities.

-----to students who have special educational needs?

Any chance of a question?

It defies logic-----

Any chance of an answer?

He cannot answer a question if it has not been asked.

The Deputy is over time.

-----and it is entirely indefensible.

A question please, Deputy.

In the past the Minister, Deputy Quinn, who is sitting beside the Tánaiste, admitted to mistakes and corrected them.

Is the minute up?

When he targeted disadvantaged schools in a previous budget he admitted that he did not understand the impact of the cut. He apologised and subsequently reversed it.

The Deputy is over time.

A Second Stage speech.

I am about to conclude. Regarding student grants, he apologised to students for the mistakes that had been made. I am asking the Tánaiste to admit that this is an indefensible mistake.

Thank you, Deputy.

He should not try to defend it. I ask that he give a commitment to the House this morning that he will sit down with his Cabinet colleagues, and particularly with the Minister, Deputy Quinn, reconsider this measure and ensure that from September no special needs child is targeted as part of his drive to achieve savings in the education budget.

Even in these very difficult financial circumstances this Government committed to ring-fencing the finance available for special educational needs, and we have done that.

You are cutting-----

No. Please do not abuse language.

The Tánaiste is abusing the electorate.

The money that is available-----

Please have respect for the person in possession.

-----for special educational needs in 2013 is €1.3 billion. That is 60% more than was available or allocated in 2007 at the height of the boom.

It is 10% less than last year.

The numbers of special needs assistants and the numbers of resource teachers have not been reduced. The National Council-----

Every child is being cut.

Please, Deputy McConalogue.

The Deputy needs to listen to the reply.

It is waffle and rubbish.

Please Deputies. The Tánaiste has the floor.

The National Council for Special Education, whose job it is to examine the way in which those resources are allocated, has come forward with a policy proposal. It is the first time in 20 years that the way in which the resource is allocated has been examined. It has come forward with a policy advice as to the way the resource is used. Among that, for example, is the idea of team teaching and better use of the resource. The Minister for Education and Skills has established a group to examine the allocation of the resource so the money that is available and the number of resource teachers, special needs assistants and special teachers available are deployed to meet the needs of those who need them most. As I said, the Government's commitment to special educational needs cannot be doubted. For every five teachers-----

A cut of 10% is being imposed on every child.

-----in the entire first level and second level education system there are two people, between resource teachers and special needs assistants, who are dedicated to assisting and working with children with special needs.

The Tánaiste is dismantling that now.

The issue now is to make sure that allocation and that resource, which is very considerable-----

Smart teaching.

-----is used to best advantage. That is why the Minister for Education and Skills has asked the National Council for Special Education to apply itself to the allocation of that resource.

Shameful. The Tánaiste is not addressing the impact of the cut.

The money has not been cut. The number of special teachers has not been cut. The number of special needs assistants has not been cut.

(Interruptions).

The Tánaiste never mentioned the children once.

In the foyer of these Houses we proudly display the 1916 Proclamation. The Tánaiste will know well one of the main lines in that Proclamation, namely, cherishing all of the children of the nation equally. The decision yesterday announced by the National Council for Special Education, NCSE, and the Minister, Deputy Quinn - he was nowhere to be seen yesterday; it is welcome that he is here today - flies in the face of that pledge. The latest cuts of 25% in real terms since 2011 are shameful. I cannot understand that because every parliamentarian in these Houses has interacted with parents, families and carers of people with disabilities. How can we continue to stand over cuts such as these? These are cuts to children with autism, speech and language difficulties, multiple disabilities, severe emotional disturbance and visual or hearing impairments. Why are children such as these and vulnerable people paying the price of austerity? People watching these debates know that the very wealthy got bailed out, and they take the hit. How can the Tánaiste possibly stand over this type of decision? Members of this House come from different political backgrounds but, fundamentally, we are decent people. We listen to people who are carers and those who are struggling. I appeal to the Minister to reverse this decision. He should not present it in some Orwellian fashion that the budget is the same as it was last year. He knows that the number of students has increased. More money needs to be allocated to this area. I appeal to the Tánaiste to do the right thing and have this decision reversed.

The exaggeration continues. It is now a 25% cut, according to Deputy Mac Lochlainn. We should get the facts right. First, there is no cut in the allocation-----

That is what it is.

-----of money for special educational needs.

The numbers have increased, which makes it a cut.

The Government has ring-fenced the funding available for special educational needs, and for very good reason because it is committed to providing for the needs of children with special needs.

Second, the number of teachers dedicated to working with children who have special educational needs has not been cut. The number of special needs assistants dedicated to working with children with special educational needs has not been cut.

The hours have been cut.

Those numbers are being protected. The issue is that the number of children presenting in schools for special educational needs resources is increasing. That is why the Minister for Education and Skills has asked the National Council for Special Education to examine the way in which this resource is allocated so that it is used to best effect. For 20 years nobody looked at the allocation. That is why he asked that it be looked at to ensure that the considerable amount of money being dedicated to special educational needs, and the considerable number of personnel in the education system dedicated to special educational needs, are going to where they are most needed and that they are used in the best possible way within the schools. I believe that is reasonable. It is reasonable that after 20 years, during which time this was not looked at, the Minister would get the National Council for Special Education to examine the way this resource is used within our schools and to develop a way in which the dedicated money and personnel for special educational needs, which is considerable, are used to the best advantage of the children who need them.

The Tánaiste has got to reflect on this issue. This is Orwellian stuff. All of us got e-mails last night from teachers and principals across the State describing clearly the real impact on the children involved in their schools.

This is defending the indefensible. I will read from the Labour Party manifesto for the last election. It states, "Labour will support schools, parents and children with special educational needs by ensuring that necessary supports follow a child from primary to second level and achieving greater integration of special needs-related services." The Labour Party was spot on when it said that and it should honour that.

I was on a panel sponsored by the Disability Federation of Ireland last year and it put out a pledge called "a threshold of decency" for every political party to subscribe to, stating there would be no more cuts to disability services. What citizen would support the cutting of services to children with disabilities, their parents or carers? That was the pledge and this Government has not accepted it.

The Tánaiste should stop the Orwellian language and the nonsense. Let us be realistic, the fact is that children going to school in September will have to cope will less support for those pupils with disabilities.

There was a presentation recently by parents of children with Down's syndrome. In Donegal Deputies from all parties recently met parents who told them what it means to be the parent of a disabled child and what those resources and supports mean to them. I am appealing to decency here because I think we are decent people in these Houses. Let us reverse this decision. Do not hide behind the NCSE but do the right thing and reverse the decision. Please do not get up again and try to defend the indefensible.

It is not the indefensible. As I have said, for every five teachers in our education system-----

The Government is taking three of them away.

-----across first and second level education, there are two people in addition to those teachers who are specifically dedicated to providing supports to children who have special educational needs.

To a certain number of children.

The Tánaiste was elected to protect that.

It is a sizeable commitment by an standard.

The number of children increases but there has been no increase in resources.

That number has been protected by this Government, there has been no reduction in that number.

That is a cut in real terms.

What about the child?

There has been no cut in the money that is being provided for special educational needs.

Demand has increased, which makes that a reduction in real terms.

It makes sense that we look at the way in which that resource is being used.

The Minister for disinformation.

For 20 years, that was not done.

Every little cut hurts.

The National Council for Special Education has looked at the way that resource is being used and has come forward with ideas and proposals and the Minister for Education and Skills is working with it in that regard to ensure the resources, which have not been reduced, and the number of people working in this area, which has not been reduced, are working to the best advantage of the people who need them. That is what makes sense.

The sad thing is the Tánaiste believes this.

The Tánaiste is embarrassing himself, he should sit down. It is disgraceful, this is complete waffle.

When have you lads ever had a conscience for Christ sake? You murdered 3,000 people.

Two things. The money for special educational needs has not been reduced and the numbers of people, including resource teachers and special needs assistants, have not been reduced. The Government is determined that the money and resources being provided for special educational needs, which are considerable, are used for the best advantage of the children who need them and that is why the National Council for Special Education has been asked to examine the best possible use of the money and the people who are dedicated to providing support to children with special educational needs.

Last November, undercover investigators revealed the Irish Family Planning Association clinics, and other clinics that are overseen and funded by the HSE's crisis pregnancy programme, were involved in actively encouraging women in crisis pregnancies to mislead and lie to their doctors about their abortions if complications were to arise after the abortion procedure. The advice was described at the time as reckless and dangerous. Professor Sam Coulter Smith said when the investigation became public that he was aware of cases where women had died because they did not tell their doctors they had an abortion. It is disturbing that such poor advice would be given to Irish women in crisis pregnancies at a time when they are vulnerable and need appropriate advice more than ever.

The finding was just one of a number of disturbing findings revealed in the investigation. It also found the Irish Family Planning Association in particular was in breach of several provisions of the Abortion Information Act 1995. It appears this legislation was being breached on a wide scale. This reflected a high level of contempt for their health and well being, not to mention the law of the land.

Following on from this investigation, a so-called "independent inquiry" was established by the HSE and announced by Mr. Tony O'Brien, head of the HSE and former head of the Irish Family Planning Association. The inquiry was to be chaired by Ms Brigid McManus, a former Secretary General of the Department of Education and Science. Following a parliamentary question from Deputy Terence Flanagan, however, the answer gave the impression the investigation and inquiry has been downgraded to an audit, something entirely different. The inquiry was established in November 2012 and seven months later no significant progress has been made. We have been told the report will be finalised in the next seven to eight weeks. Can the Tánaiste explain the delay in the investigation, given the seriousness of the wrongdoing and the endangering of women's health the undercover investigation revealed? Can he explain why the investigation has been downgraded to an audit? Were the people giving this dangerous information suspended? They should have been suspended, or at that very least, some action should have been taken. Was any part of the €3 million in HSE funding to the offending agencies withdrawn or withheld? If not, why not? Why is the IFPA, a State-funded agency, which has given out life endangering and inaccurate information to vulnerable women and girls in crisis pregnancies, still receiving money when other HSE and other programmes are being targeted? Will the Tánaiste tell us the exact status of the investigation into State-funded crisis pregnancy counselling services?

The Deputy is asking me to give information on an investigation that is still underway. I cannot possibly do that and neither should he prejudice the outcome of any inquiry or investigation that is taking place. We clearly must await the outcome of the investigation. I remind the Deputy that there is legislative provision for the provision of information to women in crisis pregnancies that is in line with the constitutional position and the referendum held on the issue some time ago.

I am not trying to prejudice any investigation, I am trying to deal with the situation where we were promised an investigation and we were told who would head that investigation. In reply to a parliamentary question this week, however, we have been told it is an audit. What hope can any of us have about the sincerity of this Government's claims when it speaks about championing women's health when it has done nothing to address the situation I have outlined today? We have had false promises and misleading information.

We must stop fooling ourselves if we think we are having a real debate about protecting women's lives and health at the moment. A Bill is being introduced today and the Government should stop fooling itself because it is not fooling me or a large majority of the public. Why has the Minister for Health not made a statement on this? The Minister was quick to make statements on the abuses within other State-funded health services, such as nursing homes. Why the silence on this topic at this time, when the Government claims it wants to do its best for women and protect their lives and health? The silence from the HSE since the initial exposé in the Irish Independent of wrongdoing highlights the point I am making. I compliment those who carried out this undercover investigation and Mr. Jim O'Doherty.

We cannot be selective in our concern for women. The Irish public is becoming ever more aware of what is going on and in the interests of democracy the colossal double standards which seem to be underpinning the debate must stop.

Is there a point?

Women and girls in pregnancy deserve better from the Government. I did not get the answer to the question I have asked. Where is the inquiry?

What did Deputy Mattie McGrath do when he had the chance?

Where is the inquiry? Where is it at?

What is Deputy Mattie McGrath trying to imply?

It is now an audit. Why was Mr. Tony O'Brien appointed CEO-----

That is outrageous. He is trying to blacken him.

-----when he was involved in this agency previously? The Tánaiste might answer those questions.

I call the Tánaiste, on a final reply on this.

All I can say is that the Crisis Pregnancy Agency is doing a good job providing support to women in crisis pregnancies.

The Tánaiste is satisfied.

The Dáil question that the Deputy refers to was replied to by the Minister for Health. If there are other issues arising from that question, I am sure that further questions can be tabled to the Minister on it.

There is not a delay.

There is not, and Deputy Mattie McGrath well knows that.

Of course, there is.

There is information, support and advice that is provided to women in crisis pregnancies, as should be the case.

There is a crisis pregnancy agency which has responsibility for the provision of advice-----

-----and information to women in crisis pregnancies. It works within the aegis of the Department of Health and it is doing a fine job.

In this case, not.

It is not fair for Deputy Mattie McGrath to impugn, either those who are working in the agency-----

I am not impugning anyone; they impugn themselves.

-----or in any other agency by prejudging the outcome of any investigation, audit, inquiry or whatever one might want to call it.

I only want to see the facts.

Deputy Mattie McGrath should at least await the outcome of that before making the kind of allegations or insinuations that he is making in the course of his question here this morning.

That concludes Leaders' Questions. I regret I cannot allow Deputy Finian McGrath the use of the word "lie", otherwise it would be impossible to have a dignified or orderly debate. I ask him to withdraw the word "lie".

I withdraw that word.

I thank the Deputy.

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