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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 8 Oct 2013

Vol. 816 No. 1

Order of Business

It is proposed to take No. 9, motion re membership of committee, and No. 2, Forestry Bill 2013 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that No. 9 shall be decided without debate. Private Members' business shall be No. 111, motion re discretionary medical cards.

There is one proposal to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 9, motion re membership of committee, without debate, agreed to?

I will agree to that on the basis that I understand it is not throwing yet another rebel off some committee. Apparently, it is a straightforward transfer.

The Deputy threw a fair few of them off himself.

We were never as vindictive as you, Deputy Kehoe.

Is the proposal agreed? Agreed. I call Deputy Martin.

Poor old Mattie. The Deputy wants him back.

Leave Mattie alone.

I think Mattie has spoken favourably of the contrast between civilised behaviour and your types of actions and behaviour.

Very serious issues arise in terms of the budgetary position in health from what we can gather and glean. Apart from the action taken by the non-consultant hospital doctors, quite a number of cancellations of surgery have been made between now and the end of the year. Hospitals are telling their staff to cancel surgeries because of inadequate resources, lack of finances and trying to square the circle before the end of the year. We got various estimates starting about a month ago as to the potential degree of overruns in the health service. My primary concern is patient safety and ensuring people get timely operations as planned. Can the Taoiseach confirm to the House whether there will be a need for a Supplementary Estimate for the health area before the end of the year? I remember asking the same question at an earlier period last year and the Taoiseach categorically saying "No" but there turned out to be a very substantial one. I want a straight answer "Yes" or "No" as to whether there will be one this year.

Mention has been made of the Priory Hall scandal. The Taoiseach endeavoured to make a political colour of that issue at times and it did him no favours, the fact that he tended to dress it up in some sort of political commentary about the period and all of that. The reality is there was regulation. Regulation was enforced in other local authorities, and up to some years ago, I can recall a school, having been completed, not being opened because of the width of a corridor. The burning question about Priory Hall is who oversaw what within the local authority and who certified what? Are there any plans to have an inquiry into this to get to the answers as to how fire certificates and a variety of certification that was always required was not produced? It just did not happen.

In that context, there is the pyrite levy Bill, which relates to a range of other residents in different scenarios who are also under huge pressure. I would appreciate it if the Taoiseach could give me an update on the setting up of the pyrite remediation board.

This is a matter on which the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Hogan, is in discussion with the Cabinet. It is a case of considering what is the best thing to do to provide moneys to deal with the thousands of homes so afflicted. I cannot give the Deputy a date for this Bill. There are a number of complications with it in terms of property issues. I expect that the Minister, Deputy Hogan, the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and the Minister for Finance will have a number of meetings about this to see what is the best thing to do. Clearly, we must arrive at a solution for these people. As the Deputy is aware, I have been in a number of their homes over the years. They are not very nice. A substantial amount is involved and it will take some time to conclude it for everybody. I am not sure, as I speak to the Deputy now, whether the pyrite levy Bill is the right way to go.

It may not be the right way to go.

It may not.

I asked whether there will be a Supplementary Estimate for the health area.

With regard to the health area, the situation is very much improved from what it was. I note that the expenditure profile as of last week is just €1 million off where it should be and the Minister for Health, Deputy Reilly, has put a lot of pressure on the HSE and on the departmental agencies to comply with the ceiling that has been set for him. I hope that can be achieved.

In the programme for Government the Taoiseach committed to establishing a process to ensure the Constitution meets the challenges of the 21st century, and this included abolishing the Seanad. He also committed to establishing a Constitutional Convention to consider comprehensive constitutional reform. Sinn Féin put it to him that the convention should be asked to re-imagine Ireland and to bring forward a new Constitution, and he refused to do that. I also asked the Taoiseach on a number of occasions to put the future of the Seanad and its reform on the clár of the Constitutional Convention, and he refused to do that.

In light of the result of the referendum at the weekend - I think the Taoiseach made a hames of that referendum; he took it on as a personal political initiative but then refused to show leadership, refused to debate the issues and did not motivate or mobilise citizens - it is clear that no one can view the referendum result as a vote to retain the Seanad in its current form. Will the Taoiseach now move with speed to extend the remit of the Constitutional Convention in order that it can discuss and make recommendations on the future of Seanad Éireann? He has said on at least four occasions in the House, including as late as today, that the essence of democracy is that one asks the people. The convention is a grouping of citizen delegates and the Taoiseach should ask them about this. I have attended a number of the meetings of the Constitutional Convention and I may be one of the few party leaders to have done so. People are very well motivated and are involved in honest and thorough discussions. Here is an issue that can be put on the clár of the convention and it can come forward with recommendations on the future of Seanad Éireann.

I have already answered this question. The Constitutional Convention is an interaction between citizens, chosen properly, and some public representatives to make recommendations to Government about whether a referendum should be held. The people were consulted in this case and they have given an answer, and the answer is to retain the Seanad. I have already said to Deputy Martin that, as far as I am concerned, we accept that answer and that verdict to engage with the leaders in this House and in the Seanad to see within its constitutional remit what is the most effective way of making it a better contributor organisation to our democracy.

That will occur as part of the overall process of change relating to politics in general and also in the context of the more effective running of this House, which clearly still retains its constitutional requirement in respect of accountability. I hope to engage with Deputy Martin and others, both here and in the Seanad, as quickly as possible in respect of engaging in a meaningful discussion on-----

Why not refer the matter to the Constitutional Convention?

As I informed the Deputy previously, the purpose of the Constitutional Convention is to consider issues and make recommendations to Government on whether referendums should be held in respect of particular issues.

Its purpose is to ensure that the Constitution meets the challenge of the 21st century.

In this instance the people were consulted because the Government made a decision on the matter. Fine Gael, Labour and Fianna Fáil all included the issue of Seanad abolition in their election manifestos. The Deputy's party did not advocate abolition originally but it eventually came around to that point of view.

My party did advocate abolition.

Fair enough. We were all agreed on the matter. The decision has been made. The people were fully consulted and were given the opportunity to vote. As far as I am concerned, I will engage with the various leaders in this House and in the Seanad in order to define - in a meaningful way - what is the best process in the context of moving forward and making the Upper House a more effective contributor to our democracy.

I refer the Taoiseach to No. 121 on the Order Paper. On numerous occasions recently the Taoiseach repeated two statements with which I strongly agree. The first of these is that there are political consequences for one's actions and second is that the Dáil shall hold the Executive to account. Does the Taoiseach agree that it is somewhat regrettable that statements on the result of the referendum are not being taken in the House today? On the second of the Taoiseach's recent statements, namely, that the Dáil shall hold the Executive to account, I am of the view that one of the political consequences of the referendum result is that the Seanad should be reformed. Neither I nor the majority of the Irish people believe the Upper House should be retained in its current form. It is regrettable that we do not have time to take statements. Rather than the leaders of the various parties and groupings meeting in a particular room, time should be made available for the taking of statements in the Dáil in order that people might outline their views. Many Government backbenchers have tabled requests for Topical Issue debates on political reform. Perhaps the latter is borne out of frustration with the fact that the issue to which I refer is not on the agenda for discussion.

There are more important issues than the reform of the Seanad. In that context and now that the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation - having managed to save 60 jobs - is available again, is there any possibility that time might be made available for No. 27 on the Order Paper, statements on the Action Plan for Jobs?

Deputy Timmins has been around a long time. There are ten reports on issues relating to the Seanad. Some of those reports are very different and some are poles apart, some are feasible and some are not. A constitutional referendum to change the higher education constituency in respect of the Seanad was passed some time ago but in the intervening years neither a Government nor an Opposition Senator tabled a motion on the matter. I wonder why that was the case. These are matters we need to discuss. It is not just a case of saying that we held a referendum last week and that we should have statements in the Dáil on the matter today. If we are serious about this issue, then there must be a comprehensive engagement regarding what is the best way to proceed. People must consider what has been reported by different committees in the past about the prospects for Seanad Éireann. We now know the people want the Upper House retained as an essential part of our Constitution. Let us make the best of that. An opportunity in this regard will arise in due course. That opportunity is not too far away, I hope.

A number of Deputies have tabled requests for Topical Issue debates on Dáil reform, a matter in respect of which we are engaging at present.

That was well organised by the Government side.

On Saturday evening.

Those Deputies would not have been able to raise this issue if we had not already made changes which allow them to do so.

Who was responsible for composing all of them?

I will have to engage further with Deputy Martin on this matter. The Deputy was not able to be present for the entirety of our most recent meeting when I was trying to help him to get issues included on the Order Paper. That is the story.

The Taoiseach gave me great help last week.

When he did not turn up.

The matter of the Action Plan for Jobs can be dealt with by way of parliamentary questions or whatever. The Government Chief Whip would be very happy to afford people the opportunity to discuss the progress being made by the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Bruton, in respect of the Action Plan for Jobs and the preparations for the action to be taken in 2014 as well. Clearly, it is better to be in our current position and creating 3,000 jobs each month rather than, as was the case previously, to be losing 7,000 per month. The Government is very open to proposals for initiatives to improve the position with regard to job creation. The Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton, other Ministers and I have travelled around the country in order to meet employers, unemployed people, etc., to hear their views and their stories about how we might make matters easier in the context of facilitating job creation opportunities. The latter is what we are all about in the context of restoring the public finances to good health and getting the country back to work.

The Taoiseach referred to Dáil reform. Is he aware that earlier today the CEOs of eight highly-respected civil society organisations were obliged to write to the Ceann Comhairle as a result of fears that the Committee on Procedures and Privileges intends to restrict access to the audio-visual, AV, room for civil society groups? I refer, in this regard, to groups such as the Irish Council for Civil Liberties, the National Women's Council and other NGOs. Will the Taoiseach make time available for a debate on this matter, particularly as the decision relating to it was taken without any consultation with the overwhelming majority of Deputies? The matter has largely been dealt with in secret by a committee which meets in secret. If we are intent on discussing reform, I am of the view that we should be opening up this House to civil society groups rather than shutting it down. Will the Taoiseach comment on this issue?

Did the groups to which the Deputy refers write to the CPP?

They wrote to the Ceann Comhairle earlier today.

As I understand it, this matter is due for consideration by the Joint Sub-Committee on Administration. I presume the latter will contact the Deputy directly if the situation is as he has outlined.

In light of the result in last Friday's referendum, will the Government review its proposals to break up the local development companies that have served us so well? Will it give the people a say in respect of its proposal to abolish the town councils? The latter have served us and their communities in an excellent fashion.

We will ask the Taoiseach-----

I have raised this matter previously.

That is fine but we are not having a debate on it now.

There is legislation pending and I want to know if the Taoiseach is going to give the people a say in the matters to which I refer before that legislation is railroaded through. The Taoiseach is aware of the answer he was given last week when the people had their say. I truly believe that if a plebiscite were to be held on in respect of town councils-----

We are not having a debate on this now.

-----the people would stand up for those councils, which have served us very well.

On the same issue, the Taoiseach has been indicating for a number of weeks that legislation relating to the abolition of town councils is to be brought before Cabinet by the relevant Minister. Considering the wallop the Taoiseach received for seeking to abolish the Seanad, does he not fear the same level of recrimination if said legislation is brought forward?

There will be ample opportunity to discuss the matters raised by Deputies Healy-Rae and Cowen on the local government Bill, which is expected to be put before Cabinet next week.

There will be no discussion.

Will the people be given a say?

Let the people cast their votes.

That will not happen.

(Interruptions).

What is the current status of the workplace relations Bill, which is an important item of legislation? Will the Taoiseach indicate if it has been signed off by Cabinet and state when it is likely to come before the House?

The National Treasury Management Agency (amendment) (No. 1) Bill and the National Treasury Management Agency (amendment) (No.) 2 Bill are also very important. What progress has been made in preparing these two Bills with a view to ensuring that they are brought before the House as a matter of urgency?

The heads of the workplace relations Bill were approved in July 2012. The Bill is due for publication this session.

The National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) (No. 1) Bill and the National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill will also be published this session.

The Immigration, Residence and Protection Bill is being revised. If he is not aware of it, I would like to bring to the Taoiseach's attention a report in today's The Irish Times on direct provision centres which referred to the treatment immigrants receive in them, the fact a family of six was living in one bedroom during one inspection, blocked emergency exits and breaches in child protection. This issue has dragged on for far too long.

Is legislation promised?

When will the Taoiseach bring forward this legislation to deal with what I believe is the modern day version of the way we dealt with people in institutions such as the Magdalen laundries? It is no way to treat people.

The Bill is awaiting Committee Stage. There are quite a number of amendments and I am not sure whether the Minister is considering revising the Bill because of the situation. I will get clarity from the Department of Justice and Equality on the current status of the amendments being considered before it goes to committee and will advise the Deputy accordingly.

When will the Regulation and Valuation of Land Bill, which will merge the Property Registration Authority, the Valuation Office and the Ordnance Survey Office, be published?

I do not have a date for it but I will check to see what progress has been made on it.

I refer to the Health Service Executive (Financial Matters) Bill. Is the Taoiseach aware of the major crisis in St. Michael's House and in Prosper Fingal disability service where parents are at their wits' end and services are under severe strain? Families are very worried coming up to the budget.

That Bill is due this session.

When does the Taoiseach expect publication of the Health Information Bill which will provide a legislative framework for the better governance of health information and initiatives, including data matching and health information resources for use in the health service?

The Health Information Bill is due early next year.

The Taoiseach may be aware that there are five Irish families who have had a referral from Russian families to adopt children but that due to changes in the eligibility criteria by the Russian authorities, these Irish families risk losing the children referred to them. Does the Government intend to act in a humane and compassionate manner in this regard and bring forward amending legislation to the Adoption Act 2010 which would ensure these five families would be united with the children for whom a referral has been made?

It is a difficult issue for the families involved. This matter is being examined. The ambassador in Moscow has been in touch with the Russian authorities. The question of legislative change has to be considered. It is a sensitive and difficult area, in particular for the families involved.

If legislative change is necessary, will it be forthcoming?

As I said, the ambassador, on the instruction of the Minister, has been in touch directly with the Russian authorities to see if this can be resolved. It is not easy.

If legislative change is necessary, will it be forthcoming?

A highly emotive and controversial issue across the midlands currently is that of industrial wind turbines. In recent months, there has been a series of public meetings which politicians from all political parties have attended. We are told continually that we are still operating under the 2006 guidelines introduced by Fianna Fáil when in government. A number of Bills are pending.

The Deputy recommended-----

I did not interrupt the Deputy when he was speaking.

Which legislation-----

He should please have the manners afforded to him.

About which legislation is the Deputy talking?

Two Bills are pending. The first is the Geothermal Energy Development Bill and the second is the EirGrid Bill. A third Bill, a Private Members' Bill, has been brought forward by my constituency colleague, Deputy Penrose, to deal with this issue. Is there any possibility those Bills will be taken in the near future? At every meeting we attend, there is a call from the public for a moratorium to be introduced until such time as we have proper legislation in place to deal with this issue. There are implications for our environment-----

We cannot have a debate now.

-----and for our tourism industry. There are also health implications associated with this.

The EirGrid Bill is due next year. The Government is very firmly committed to meeting the targets we have set for wind energy and it will play an important part in meeting those targets. We are very much aware of the extent of public concern about wind turbines and so on. I know where I come from that these matters cause people genuine concern. There is a need to strike the right balance between the need to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels, which is exceptionally high each year, and the needs of local communities, which is what the Deputy articulated.

The Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, in conjunction with the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, has put in place a targeted review of the wind energy guidelines of 2006, of which the Deputy spoke, focusing specifically on noise, flicker and proximity, or closeness, to houses.

The timetable for the publication of this is quarter four of 2013, in a couple of weeks' time. The draft guidelines will be for a period of six weeks to two months to allow for publication of the final guidelines in 2014. I assure the Deputy and the people of the midlands that all these views will be taken into account. These are serious matters, although quite clearly-----

The Taoiseach's tone has changed since the last time I raised this.

We know who was in government in 2006. That is the timetable and I expect it will be adhered to and that the issues the Deputy raised will be taken into account.

When is it hoped to publish the Family Leave Bill to consolidate with amendments all family leave legislation?

It is scheduled for publication in the second half of next year.

More than three weeks ago, I raised the issue of the Pyrite Levy Bill and was told a submission would be made to the Cabinet on 23 September. Judging by the response the Taoiseach gave to Deputy Martin, there appear to be problems with this Bill. The Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Hogan, promised the residents that this would be dealt with swiftly and urgently. Thousands of people are affected. Will the Taoiseach clarify what is the problem? Are we going ahead with this Bill? We were told we would have it before Christmas.

As I said in answer to a question, it is the Government's intention to deal with this problem as one of a number of problems that have been causing serious concern for people. I said to Deputy Martin that I am not sure the current construction of the proposed Pyrite Levy Bill is the way to do it. I would like to make it clear to the Deputy that it is the firm intention of the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government and the Government to deal with the problem people face because of pyrite. The question of the construction of the Pyrite Levy Bill may not be the best way to do this.

I refer to the previous statement the Taoiseach made in regard to the guidelines on wind energy and the environmental assessment. There is a fear among communities in the midlands that these will not be published until after the local elections and that there is a cynical ploy that people will not see these guidelines before they go to the polls. Will the Taoiseach commit to publishing the assessment and the guidelines before the local elections?

I have been informed that the indicative timetable for the publication is quarter four of 2013. The draft guidelines will last for a period of six weeks to two months to allow for publication of the final guidelines in 2014. I assume that the quarter four guidelines will be adhered to. They will be the draft guidelines and will last for a period of six weeks to two months.

When they are published in draft form, everybody will have their say on them at that stage.

There is an environmental assessment to be published next year. That is also a key aspect of this.

That will take account of matters like the evolution of wind turbine technologies, the experience to date in the application of the current guidelines, noise issues and Ireland's binding targets in relation to renewable energy. As I have said, we are conscious of the concern that exists in many communities about these issues. At the same time, we recognise the importance of clean and renewable energy as part of our future environmental strategy. When the final wind energy development guidelines are published, they will take all of these views into account. I will come back to the Deputy on the environmental assessment issue that he raised.

When does the Taoiseach expect the Shannon aviation services (miscellaneous provisions) Bill to come before the Dáil?

I expect that Bill to come before the Dáil in this session.

The Taoiseach has said on past occasions that the first residential water bills will relate to next autumn and will be dropped in the doors the following spring with reference to arrears for the autumn period. When can we expect to see legislation to give effect to that whole process so that its relevance is adequately scrutinised and analysed?

It will be in this session.

Will it definitely be in this session?

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