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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 5 Nov 2013

Vol. 819 No. 1

Order of Business

It is proposed to take No. 12, motion re withdrawal of the Betting (Amendment) Bill 2012; No. 13, motion re referral to select committee of proposed approval of the report by the Minister for Defence regarding service by the Defence Forces with the United Nations in 2012; No. 14, motion re referral to joint committee of proposed approval for Council decisions re the agreement between Canada and the European Union on the transfer and processing of passenger name record data; No. 15, motion re referral to joint committee of proposed approval for regulations of the European Parliament and the Council regarding the use of the regulatory procedure with scrutiny and jurisdiction and the recognition and enforcement of judgments in civil and commercial matters; No. 16, motion re report of the Joint Committee on Transport and Communications on the proposal for a regulation of the European Parliament and the Council laying down measures concerning the European single market for electronic communications and to achieve a connected continent, COM (2013) 627; No. 17, motion re appointment of Ombudsman; No. 18, motion re appointment of Information Commissioner; and No. 33, Local Government Bill 2013 - Second Stage (resumed).

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that Nos. 12 to 16, inclusive, shall be decided without debate; Nos. 17 and 18 shall be debated together and shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 20 minutes, and the following arrangements shall apply: the speech of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed five minutes in each case, and such Members may share their time; and the following business shall be taken tomorrow after Oral Questions: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage. Private Members’ business shall be No. 136, motion re cannabis regulation.

There are three proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 12 to 16, inclusive, agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 17 and 18 agreed to?

It is not agreed. While I do not propose to call a vote on this, I want to say to the Taoiseach that the Ombudsman has turned out to be a very important position in modern society, raising many issues with regard to the interaction between the citizen and the State, particularly in terms of health, welfare and so forth, and, likewise, the position of the Information Commissioner is very important. From the perspective of Dáil Éireann and of proper deliberation on the role of the offices of the Ombudsman and the Information Commissioner, to have 20 minutes of discussion is very unsatisfactory and does not speak well for the Dáil in terms of treating these offices seriously and with the consideration they deserve. These offices go to the heart of how our system of Government works in regard to the rights of the citizen. Very often, they can be critical of the Government, irrespective of who is in power, and of the arms of Government, including Departments and Government agencies, and how they interact with citizens. The proposal that Opposition spokespersons have five minutes to discuss all of that should have been reflected on further. We could do with far more time to discuss these two very important offices, given that the appointment of the Ombudsman and the Information Commissioner are opportunities for the House to debate the role and work of those offices.

Aontaím leis sin.

I am not sure the Whips had an engagement on this and I do not know whether this was actually agreed at the Whips' meeting. If Members are of the opinion that we should add another half an hour or 40 minutes, I do not object to that. We could extend the sitting by that amount and just shove things forward, if Members want to have a deeper reflection on the appointments of the Ombudsman and the Information Commissioner.

There is a proposal before the House that we extend the time available for debate on the appointment of the Ombudsman and the Information Commissioner by 40 minutes. Is that agreed? Agreed.

I thank the Taoiseach.

Is the proposal for dealing with the Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013 tomorrow agreed to? Agreed. I call Deputy Martin on the Order of Business.

I have two issues in regard to the programme for Government. First, on the subject of Northern Ireland and the full implementation of the Good Friday Agreement and St. Andrews Agreement, it is important to acknowledge the excellently produced programme "The Disappeared" which was broadcast last night on RTE and BBC and which was an excellent example of public service broadcasting. It was a very sad programme to watch, harrowing in its detail and in the portrayal of the individual stories the programme dealt with. The families and friends of the disappeared deserve great credit for taking part in the programme, for their bravery and, indeed, for their perseverance in endeavouring to recover the bodies of their loved ones who remain unaccounted for. I put it to the Taoiseach that far more needs to be done to seek information for these families who still do not know where their loved ones are hidden or buried. It is also important to acknowledge that we have universal jurisdiction for murder and manslaughter committed by citizens on the island of Ireland in the context of the Criminal Law (Jurisdiction) Act. The Good Friday Agreement, which the programme for Government-----

Where are we going here?

I will come to the legislation shortly. In terms of the peace process and the Good Friday Agreement, we amended the Constitution, particularly at Article 29.8, where a new section was introduced stating: "The State may exercise extra-territorial jurisdiction in accordance with the generally recognised principles of international law." In that context, I ask that every effort be made to pursue the case of the murder of Jean McConville and that all involved should be in a position to co-operate fully and honestly with the Garda, as well as with the PSNI, so the remaining bodies can be located.

The programme for Government, on page 17, under the title "Victims Rights", states: "We will enact legislation to strengthen the rights of victims of crime and their families, to ensure that victims and their needs are at the heart of justice process and that rights to information, advice and other appropriate assistance are met effectively and efficiently." I would appreciate if the Taoiseach could indicate where lie the legislative proposals in regard to that commitment in the programme for Government. In particular, I ask if he would accept there is a crying need, in the context of last night's programme and the issues it revealed, to ensure that the victims and their needs are at the heart of what we do in this jurisdiction, particularly given that the body of Jean McConville was found in this jurisdiction and that crimes were committed within this jurisdiction which need to be pursued vigorously-----

Thank you, Deputy.

Will the Taoiseach update me in regard to the Government's proposals for legislation in this field and also on the level of co-operation between the Garda and the PSNI in regard to outstanding matters to do with the disappeared?

We will deal with the legislative matters.

I do not disagree with Deputy Martin. I happened to see the programme and it speaks for itself. The television shot of the mother with the hands speaks for itself in terms of Irishness, motherhood and the loss of loved ones. It is an important programme from the point of view of engagement with the independent commission that has been set up for information in respect of those who are still missing. I note the comments of the Deputy First Minister, Mr. McGuinness, in this regard. My understanding is that it appears as though those who are still missing are either in Meath or in Monaghan. It may well be that people out there do know or recollect these tragic incidents unfolding on their land or close to where they might have been. It is a long time ago but the hurt is obviously as palpable and as relevant now as it was then, so I share Deputy Martin's view.

On the Bill referred to by Deputy Martin, the Minister for Justice and Equality has met with members of the families of the disappeared. The Bill will probably be published in the second half of next year.

I want to raise three issues. The first is with regard to the commission for the recovery of the bodies of the disappeared. I saw the programme last night and I took part in the programme. I took part in the programme in order to try to focus on the necessary effort to get those whose remains have not been recovered retrieved as quickly as possible and returned to their families. I ask the Taoiseach to join with me in assisting very actively the work of the commission, which was established under the last Government. I worked very closely with the commission and will continue to work with it. The programme last night should be a huge motivation to anyone who has any information whatsoever to bring it forward.

Second, I want to raise the Finance (Local Property Tax) Act. The Government, under that tax Bill, is able to deduct family home tax or property tax directly from bank accounts. Does the Government also have the ability to automatically deduct other charges, such as water charges?

The Deputy is straying. That matter should be dealt with by means of a parliamentary question.

My final question relates to the child and family recognition Bill. I welcome the announcement to the effect that the Government intends to hold a referendum on marriage equality. This is a very progressive step and Sinn Féin will actively support it. The civil, religious and legal rights of lesbian and gay people, include the right to marry, must be fully protected in law. Will the Taoiseach indicate when the relevant legislation will be introduced in order to give effect to the referendum, the date on which the referendum will be held and the proposed date on which the Minister for Justice and Equality proposes to publish the child and family recognition Bill?

In respect of the Deputy Adams's first comment, I note that he took part in the programme broadcast last night. I accept what he said about having a genuine interest in seeing that those in possession of information relating to this matter should make it known and available in order that closure might be achieved. The fact is that somebody ordered that Jean McConville be murdered, someone instructed that people take her away, someone instructed Dolours Price to drive the vehicle used across the Border and that someone gave the instruction in respect of what took place. It may be that those people are still around and that they know what happened. The Deputy's appeal - from this House - may well have some effect and I hope it does. In the context of others who were made to disappear in a similar fashion and who are laid to rest - in tragic circumstances - in County Meath or County Monaghan, there are people out there who know that happened to these individuals. It is time that those to whom I refer engaged with the commission established for this purpose by the previous Government. I do not believe anyone here would disagree with that. I hope the programme broadcast last evening will stimulate the people in question into making available the information in their possession. A number of very direct comments were made about the Deputy's presence on the programme.

The family home tax is collected by the Revenue Commissioners, which have the authority to debit any moneys owed directly from the bank accounts of those who do not pay. That is different from the position with regard to water charges, the collection of which by local authorities was organised by the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government. Local authorities do not have the same constitutional authority as the Revenue Commissioners.

Deputy Adams also referred to the proposed referendum on gay marriage. The Government considered this matter this morning and accepted the recommendation of the Constitutional Convention to the effect that a question on gay marriage should be put to the people. This is one of eight recommendations the convention has put forward in respect of matters it considered. The convention has made recommendations to the Government in the three reports it has submitted. The Deputy will be aware that, following its most recent deliberations, the Constitutional Convention recommended change in respect of the articles in the Constitution which deal with blasphemy. The Government has decided that the matter raised by the Deputy and a number of others should be put to the people by mid-2015. On gay marriage, the preparatory legislation in respect of family support and other issues will, hopefully, be published by the Minister for Justice and Equality before Christmas. The question that is often posed in respect of this issue relates to adoption. This is a matter on which the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs will follow through. There is no referendum planned for 2014. However, this and a number of other proposals made by the Constitutional Convention will be considered by the people by mid-2015.

As the Taoiseach rightly noted, the Constitutional Convention has done a considerable amount of work and has made recommendations to the Government on a number of issues. At this point, the Government's intentions with regard to the holding of the various referenda are unclear. The Taoiseach has just indicated that no referendum will be held during 2014 and that the next one might possibly be held in 2015. The window of opportunity for the holding of referenda, where appropriate, in respect of the recommendations made by the convention is narrowing, particularly in the context of the forthcoming general election.

The Constitutional Convention is currently considering its programme of work. Will the convention remain in place and are there other issues which it will examine? Where stands the Government in respect of this matter? Is it of the view that the convention should continue its work or should it simply close down operations until such time as some of its recommendations have been addressed by way of Government action?

I have already answered most of the questions posed by Deputy Kirk. The Constitutional Convention has made a number of recommendations. The Government indicated that a response would be given to the convention's reports within four months. It also indicated that if it were inclined to accept a recommendation made by the convention, then an indicative timeline would be provided. I have provided such a timeline. The Constitutional Convention is dealing with matters under the heading of "any other business" at present. It may well seek to be allowed to examine a number of other propositions which it considers to be important. Obviously, the Government will give the convention scope in this regard.

I am aware of the comments made by the chairman of the convention with regard to the level of engagement among members of the public with referenda in general. This is an issue which I intend to discuss with him. The convention will also need to reflect on the structure of the ballot papers used in future referenda. The latter is always a cause of concern to people.

In the context of the particular matter to which reference has been made and arising from the recommendation made by the Constitutional Convention - 79% of the members of which strongly support the holding of a referendum - the Minister for Justice and Equality is currently dealing with a range of family law matters which are quite sensitive and which need to be the subject of comprehensive discussion both in this House and at the relevant Oireachtas committees. In addition, the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs is dealing with the general question of adoption. In the context of the timeline, this and a number of other propositions put forward by the Constitutional Convention will - as the Government considers - be dealt with by mid-2015.

When will the Companies Bill come before the Dáil? In the context of the changes which have been made with regard to people renewing their driving licences, the centralising of the relevant offices under the National Driver Licence Service, NDLS, is causing extreme distress, particularly to young people who have been obliged to emigrate.

The Deputy should table a parliamentary question on the matter.

I will do so. However, will the Taoiseach comment on this very serious issue in the context of the road transport Bill?

This matter will be the subject of a Topical Issue debate later today.

Committee Stage of the Companies Bill 2012 is being taken this week and next week. This morning the Government approved the companies (miscellaneous provisions) Bill, which deals with the question of easier and less costly access to the Circuit Court for companies in wind-up situations.

The issue regarding driving licences and the centralisation of the offices will sort itself out over a period. It is clear that large numbers of people reported to the relevant offices in order to have their photographs taken for driving licences. As has been the case with Student Universal Support Ireland, SUSI, I am sure the matter will be resolved over a period. I suggest that the Deputy seek to have the matter dealt with by way of a Topical Issue debate. If his request in that regard is approved by the Ceann Comhairle, he will then be in a position to obtain full details from the Minister.

When will the housing (miscellaneous provisions) Bill be introduced and will it deal with the frightening situation relating to homelessness in cities throughout the country? The position in respect of the latter is particularly bad in Dublin, where there has been an 88% increase in the level of homelessness during the past 12 months. I am sure the Taoiseach is aware that not far from the gates of Leinster House one can see homeless people sleeping rough. In view of the fact that harsh weather conditions will soon be upon us, might it be possible to expedite the introduction of the Bill to which I refer?

The health (miscellaneous provisions) Bill is due to be published early next year. The issue of homelessness is giving rise to increasing concern. I hope to engage shortly - through the apposite committee - with the relevant organisations.

When can we expect publication of the civil registration (amendment) Bill, the purpose of which is to amend the Civil Registration Act 2004 following a review of its operations? The Bill will make provision for the compulsory registration of fathers' names on birth certificates, validation of embassy marriages and civil partnerships, the prevention of marriages of convenience and the registration of deaths of Irish persons who die abroad.

The Bill is due for publication early next year.

When will the gambling control Bill to update and consolidate the law on betting and gambling be published? In England, slot machines are allowed in betting shops and takeaway restaurants. These machines are the equivalent of crack cocaine in terms of gambling addiction and should not be permitted in betting shops and takeaway restaurants in this country.

The Bill is not due until next year. A draft of the legislation has been published and discussed by the relevant joint committee. The Bill will not be dealt with until next year.

When does the Government intend to introduce the criminal law (sexual offences) Bill, having particular regard to the attention given to this issue and that of child abuse on the Internet? Has the Bill been discussed by Cabinet and have its heads been approved? If so, when it is likely to come before the House?

I understand the draft Bill will be published shortly and the Cabinet will make its decision arising from that.

Two years ago, the Government promised to use €6.3 billion of the National Pensions Reserve Fund to stimulate the economy. The legislation to provide for this has still not been presented to the House. When will the relevant Bill be introduced and enacted?

When will the Water Services (No. 2) Bill 2013 be enacted? I commend the Government on its job creation strategy, particularly in my home county of Donegal, where a JobBridge position paying €150 is being offered to candidates who will install the water meters to be rolled out as a result of the Bill. It is a disgrace that the Department is signing off on places on the JobBridge scheme which will pay €150 per week for nine months' worth of work going around the roads of County Donegal installing water meters.

We will not discuss that now.

I have asked on numerous occasions about a commitment given by the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Jimmy Deenihan, to publish the 1926 census. The Government made an announcement to this effect on taking office and legislation was supposed to be introduced to allow for the publication of the census. As the Taoiseach is aware, census information is subject to a 100-year rule. The reason for publishing the 1926 census was to enable people visiting Ireland in the year of The Gathering to trace their roots. It is now close to the end of 2013 and the relevant legislation does not even feature on the legislative programme. Has this commitment been ditched or will legislation be introduced to enable publication of the 1926 census?

No, the commitment has not been ditched. This is a very costly process to which the 100-year rule applies. The Minister, Deputy Deenihan, has reported on this matter on a number of occasions. The commitment has not been ditched.

The water services Bill is due for publication in this session and I expect the NTMA Bill to give effect to expenditure by the National Pensions Reserve Fund of approximately €6 billion to be published either by the end of the year or in early January.

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