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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 15 Jan 2014

Vol. 826 No. 1

Order of Business

It is proposed to take No. 22, Road Traffic (No. 2) Bill 2013 - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; and No. 5, Betting (Amendment) Bill 2013 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that Private Members’ business, which shall be No. 132, motion re Irish Water, shall also take place immediately after the Order of Business tomorrow and shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 90 minutes on that day. Tomorrow's business after Oral Questions shall be the Betting (Amendment) Bill 2013 - Second Stage (resumed).

Is the proposal for dealing with Private Members' business tomorrow agreed to? Agreed.

I must say that the Taoiseach's response to Deputy Donnelly beggared belief.

We have moved on from there.

Deputy Martin does not want GP cards allocated.

I am leading into the programme. The Taoiseach is out of touch with the realities of health on the ground. For the record, 35,000 over-70s medical cards will be taken from people this year as a result of the budget.

The Deputy does not want GP cards allocated.

This is not anecdotal. It is fact.

The Deputy does not want the GP cards-----

People are contacting us.

Taken from people with cancer.

Could we stick to the Order of Business, please?

Discretionary medical cards are still being taken randomly from people. I just wanted to let the Taoiseach know that.

And people with cancer.

The Deputy does not want the GP cards.

(Interruptions).

In the revised legislative programme-----

It is news to me that Fianna Fáil does not want the GP cards.

We would love it if children with multiple disabilities could get back the cards that were taken from them.

Could we get back to the Order of Business, please?

That is what we would like first and foremost.

That would be a start.

That is our first priority. Could sick children get their cards back, please?

And people with cancer.

Will Deputy Martin ask his privates on his left-hand side to stop talking?

They are from another battalion.

(Interruptions).

They are the Ceann Comhairle's responsibility.

Deputy Martin might have more room for them.

They are not in my ranks.

I never opened my mouth.

I am sick of asking them.

We do not belong to Deputy Martin at all.

Their enthusiasm for the points I am raising is heartfelt.

They have a different battalion going.

Dumb and dumber.

Maybe the Deputy could give them a stripe or two and promote them.

The Ceann Comhairle is wrong. I never opened my mouth.

Then that is probably not our Mattie.

It is a good start to the new year for Deputy Mattie McGrath. Under the reform programme, the legislative programme for the next session comprises four Bills. The health reform Bill has been signalled by the provision of a GP service for people aged five years and under and new structures for the health service. The health service plan has been published. I raised this matter on the Order of Business before Christmas. The plan has been changed by the Cabinet, I believe sinisterly. This is in line with the Irish Water situation. The Government is all spin and management of the story. The HSE director stated in the plan that this would be a challenging and difficult year. I am sorry - the Government inserted the "challenging" bit. He stated that the HSE would not meet service priorities, there would be pressure on patient safety, etc. The Cabinet decided in its wisdom to change the language, as the latter was not palatable to the public and did not sound and look good enough.

Will the Government allow time for a full plenary debate in the House on the health service plan? Yesterday, the director stated that the HSE would not be able to meet its priorities under the plan as announced. We are looking at €1 billion in cuts to the health service in 2014. The Government has received many warnings from around the House to the effect that the centre in health will not hold if the Government continues to pursue its policies. There will be many difficulties and patient safety in our hospitals will be compromised as a result of the health service plan as published.

We cannot have a debate on the health service.

We need a debate on this matter in the House as soon as possible.

I remember the €1 billion the Deputy took off the old people. He refused to accept any responsibility. I did not know that the Fianna Fáil Party was opposed to the allocation of GP cards for under fives. I did not know that. I am glad the Deputy has confirmed it. Might I say that the draft-----

Give them back their cards.

-----service plan, as submitted by-----

The Government is opposed to giving medical cards to sick people.

-----the Health Service Executive to the Minister, included a figure of probity of €113 million for medical cards. The Minister, as was his right, was entitled to consider the draft service plan as submitted by the HSE and amended that. Clearly, that was a major shift-----

The HSE told him what it could do.

That is factually incorrect.

-----in his understanding-----

The Taoiseach is wronging the HSE again.

-----that one could not achieve the scale of figure that was included initially.

The Government is controlling public servants and making them work towards a political agenda.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Martin asked a question. Could we get the answer, please?

That is misleading information, as the Taoiseach well knows.

Of course this will be a challenging year for health, no more than for any other Department. Indeed, for the people it is a challenging year. Nobody underestimates the scale of that. Just because the troika has gone and we have exited the bailout, it does not mean that one has flexibility to do all of the things as one wants.

Is that not what the Taoiseach told us?

We have targets to adhere to. The budget is set for this year and we will move on with that. There were 61 claims for inclusion on the A list for legislation for this session. As Deputy Martin is aware, we used to have three sessions for Dáil legislation. There are now two this year, so this one goes out until July. There are 41 pieces of legislation. We have changed the way this is going to apply because, from yesterday's meeting on, Ministers will speak to the Chairmen of the committees about the Bills that are going to come through in their particular areas. When heads of a Bill come before Cabinet, they will go automatically to committees for pre-legislative hearings. It is a matter for the committee as to how much time it wants to do that - a day or whatever. That is its business.

Like Irish Water before Christmas.

The first Bill - No. 19 - in the health area is the health (general practitioner medical service) Bill, which is to provide the GP service to children of five years and under. I have no objection at all to a debate in the House on health. We could fit that in when the Deputy's Whip raises it at the Whips' meeting.

On the health services plan.

We will fit that in at a time that is appropriate for the health service plan.

That would be welcome.

Tá cúpla ceist agam, ceann amháin faoi chlár an Rialtais agus ceann eile faoin Tuaisceart. The Government committed to appointing an independent international expert commission to review the case for and cost of undergrounding all or part of the Meath-Tyrone 400 kV power link. To date, there has been no such independent review. When will the Government allow this? Considering the widespread opposition to its pylon plans, will it extend such a review to the rest of the State? Until such a process is carried out, will the Government postpone EirGrid's proposed overhead pylon plans?

My second question is on the commitment given in the Chamber just before Christmas to arrange a debate on the North. When I asked the Taoiseach for one, he said, "Yes". He stated it would be after the all-party talks chaired by Dr. Richard Haass and Dr. Meghan O'Sullivan. As we know, those talks have concluded. It would be prudent and pertinent were the Taoiseach to make it clear that the Government wanted to see the full implementation of Dr. Haass and Dr. O'Sullivan's all-party proposals. Saying this unambiguously would be useful. When will the Taoiseach arrange for the full debate on the North that he promised before Christmas?

We discussed this before Christmas. I agreed to that. Obviously, we did not want the debate when the Haass talks were going on. The Tánaiste was there. The Deputy was there himself. That debate will take place in the House before the end of the month. Clearly, this is the first time the parties themselves were involved in running talks after the invitation was extended to Dr. O'Sullivan and Dr. Haass. I was disappointed they were not concluded successfully. In so far as Government is concerned, we will work with the parties in any way we can to assist this matter, but clearly it is a case of first priority for the parties concerned that were not able to bring the discussions to a conclusion. That debate will take place in the House here before the end of the month.

In regard to the matter of pylons, I mentioned this before. Clearly, the challenge for the country is to be able to provide a platform for infrastructure for power for delivery for the next 50 years in the same way as the ESB originally did for provincial and urban Ireland since Ardnacrusha was set up. The Minister extended the consultation period until early January. There are now 30,000 submissions sent in. In fairness to everybody, it is important that these be gone through properly and that they be analysed and that people take into account the concerns and anxieties of people who, for a variety of reasons, made their submissions. I expect that the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, will do that in the next fortnight or three weeks. I expect he will bring a memo to Government from that. This is an issue that obviously concerns a great deal of people. The challenge is finding the best way to provide an opportunity for infrastructure throughout the entire country. The Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, is dealing with this. There are 30,000 submissions. He owes it to those who took the time to send in submissions to see that they are analysed and considered seriously.

When is publication of the criminal justice Bill, to strengthen the powers of the Criminal Assets Bureau, CAB, in respect of forfeiting the proceeds of crime, expected? I welcome the news headline in the Irish Independent today that "CAB targets fuel-laundering suspects with 25 court actions". I am sure Deputy Adams and his party also welcome it.

The legislation is not on the A list. It is on the B list. As was the case before Christmas, discussions are still ongoing with the CAB. If those discussions are concluded successfully, obviously the Bill can move forward.

The harm associated with the misuse of alcohol is well documented. Indeed, since Christmas there have been a number of fatalities and many of them are associated with the misuse of alcohol. When will the public health (alcohol) Bill come before the House? I also welcome the format of the legislative programme. The Taoiseach said the chairpersons of the committees will be met prior to any legislation being brought to the House, but the personnel who serve on those committees should also be given the opportunity to speak to Bills. That is important for the future as well.

The misuse of alcohol Bill is not on the A list, but that does not mean it cannot be discussed in a committee or raised as a Topical Issue matter. The matter is also being considered by the Cabinet sub-committee.

On the Deputy's second point, Ministers are now expected in the first instance to speak to the chairpersons of committees about the Bills that will come through in their respective areas. When the heads of the Bill are approved by the Government they are sent to the committees for the pre-legislative hearings. I expect that the chairpersons of the committees will have the opportunity to speak both to the Minister and to the issues following the report at pre-legislative stage. It is an attempt to open the opportunity to impact on legislation earlier and to a far greater extent than heretofore.

With regard to the strategic infrastructure Bill, what funds will be made available as a matter of urgency to repair the awful damage that has been done over the last number of weeks by the tremendous storms that hit our coastal areas?

There is no strategic infrastructure Bill. There is a great deal of infrastructure under way in various Departments to which the stimulus package of €2.5 billion last year directly refers, but there is no strategic infrastructure Bill per se.

The objective of the housing (miscellaneous provisions) Bill is to expand and strengthen the regulatory framework for social housing, including the statutory underpinning for the new scheme of housing assistance payments, the repossession of local authority dwellings and to provide for a new tenant purchase scheme for existing local authority houses along incremental purchase lines. When can we expect its publication?

It will be published in this session. The heads were cleared before Christmas so it is moving on the conveyor belt.

I call Deputy Doherty.

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle, agus ath bhliain faoi mhaise duit. The Taoiseach promised the Dáil earlier that he will bring Irish Water under the ambit of the freedom of information legislation. It is a new revelation given the fact that the Government defeated Sinn Féin's amendment three weeks ago to bring it under the remit of that legislation. However, it does not appear among the 42 legislative measures in the A list in the legislative programme published three days ago. Will the Minister bring Irish Water under the freedom of information regime by ministerial order, and retrospectively through its inception, and when will that order be signed by the Minister, or is there a need for legislation, which was not identified three days ago, to enable that to happen?

Second, on the first sitting day of the autumn session last year, on 18 September, the Taoiseach announced on the Order of Business that a banking inquiry would be set up. As it is now our first sitting day in 2014, perhaps the Taoiseach will take the opportunity to give us an update on how that inquiry is progressing. Has the Government located the two key documents that have been misplaced or have gone missing in the Department of Finance in respect of the bank guarantee and the recapitalisation of the banks?

With regard to freedom of information, the Minister pointed out that Irish Water became effective as an entity from 1 January in taking over responsibility for assets in the distribution and management of water. The Freedom of Information Bill 2013 is currently awaiting Report Stage in the Dáil. As this is the responsibility of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, I expect he can add the freedom of information requirement to deal with Irish Water.

With regard to the banking inquiry, I have not been in the Department of Finance looking for those letters. As I have mentioned on a number of occasions previously, I am concerned about the absence of pieces of paper in regard to this matter. The Government made a decision that it would be appropriate that a banking inquiry should take place. The Deputy will have seen the comments from the Director of Public Prosecutions and others, so I must be very careful in what I say. However, it is the intention to process the matter of setting up a banking inquiry.

The official languages (amendment) Bill is to be published in this session. Is it intended to publish the heads of the Bill first, and will they be referred to the committee for consideration before the publication of the final Bill? Is it also intended to publish the heads of the consumer protection and competition Bill, refer them to the committee and have that process finished within this term before publishing the final Bill? Similarly with regard to the Horse Racing Ireland (amendment) Bill, is it intended to publish the heads, refer them to the committee and then publish the full Bill in this session? When is it likely to happen?

Yes, the horse racing Bill will follow that pre-legislative process with the heads of the Bill going to the committee. The consumer protection and competition Bill is nearly completed, so it is way past the heads of Bill stage. It is practically finished so it will be brought before the House and then go to the committee in the usual way. In respect of the official languages (amendment) Bill, the heads will go to the Government and then will go to the committee where hearings will be held, as should be the norm to give a greater opportunity for everybody to have their say.

When is the sale of alcohol Bill due to be published? This will codify the law on the sale of alcohol. The 12 pubs of Christmas phenomenon is causing huge concern, although I do not know if it can be addressed by legislation. The phenomenon is not very welcome in this day and age.

There is no date for publication. A great deal of work is being done in the Department on this and the Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Alex White, is also dealing with aspects of it, as is my Department.

The Taoiseach said in his reply to Deputy Martin that where there is public ownership there should be no secrecy and that the Irish people have a right to know. Before the Freedom of Information Bill is finalised, can the Taoiseach ensure there will be total access to information on all aspects of all public bodies?

The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Howlin, has been very forthright about the freedom of information legislation and how it applies. It is now extended even to the Garda Síochána, except for matters in respect of which national security issues might be compromised. It is an opportunity to bring areas of Irish life under the freedom of information legislation that were not included previously. I expect that, with exceptions for particular reasons, the legislation will apply in respect of information for the public as it should.

In light of the success of the Constitutional Convention and the fact that the convention has two extra dates in February, has the Government considered extending the remit and lifespan of the current convention? If not, is it open to the suggestion of having another convention during the Government's term of office?

The Government has not given consideration to a further extension, but will before the concluding date.

I wish to raise two items. One is the EirGrid Bill, which is promised for this year. Will freedom of information also be applicable to EirGrid? Confusion and misinformation abound throughout the country and we need something to rein EirGrid in as well.

Under the road transport (no. 2) Bill the driving licence renewal process is farcical. NDLS, the company that handles this, is not fit for purpose. Yesterday, I was contacted by the father of a young man who is in America.

We do not go there.

He had to come home to get a driving licence. He washed his licence in his shirt, which can happen to any of us. Dúirt bean liom go ndúirt bean léi go raibh póca ina léine aige.

The Deputy can table a parliamentary question but cannot raise this matter on the Order of Business.

He washed his licence. How can he travel home from his job to get a new licence? It is nonsensical in the extreme.

The Deputy should table a parliamentary question.

Can someone please review this matter? This person is only one of many. A person working abroad has to come home to get his or her licence renewed. It is just farcical.

I am informed by the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport that it is not necessary to travel home for a licence. There is a procedure for dealing with it.

He was told that.

The Deputy can now inform him otherwise.

If the Deputy gives me the details I will look at them.

What about the EirGrid Bill?

It is listed for next year.

Yes, that is what the Taoiseach said.

We were told it was to be in 2014, but it has now gone back to 2015.

It is on the D list at the moment.

My God. The pressure will be piled on; do not worry.

I am calling Deputy Mathews.

First of all, I want to wish you a happy new year, a Cheann Comhairle, and the same to all my colleagues.

As regards the Taoiseach's remarks and observations about freedom of information, there are three very important institutions in this country at the moment that would benefit from the approach of his democratic revolution. They are the Central Bank of Ireland, NAMA and IBRC in liquidation. I ask the Taoiseach to consider holding a debate in this House on the imperative that those institutions would come under the Freedom of Information Act.

I suggest the Deputy should take the matter up with the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform.

They report to the Taoiseach.

The Taoiseach indicated that the State airports (Shannon Group) Bill, as it relates to the amalgamation of the new company at Shannon and the remnants of Shannon Development, would go through the Dáil in the last session, but that has not happened. It is obviously causing some consternation for the new management team there. When does the Taoiseach expect a definitive date for that legislation to be brought before the House?

In this session.

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