Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 29 Jan 2014

Vol. 828 No. 2

Topical Issue Debate

Medical Card Reviews

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

I thank the Ceann Comhairle's office for allowing me to raise this matter today. I also thank the Minister of State, Deputy White, for coming to the Chamber to respond to it. I wish to propose a minor alteration to the medical card review process. This modification would have no cost, would improve the notification system and would make life much easier for a substantial group of vulnerable people.

When medical card holders are selected for review they are written to and requested to complete forms in order to establish their continued entitlement to the medical card. If they cannot establish that entitlement they are cut off and the system is as simple as that. However, a problem arises with a substantial cohort of people, who are clearly entitled to hold a medical card under the present arrangements, but who for one reason or other fail to return the review forms to the satisfaction of the PCRS.

As the onus is on the cardholder to update the Health Service Executive, HSE, about a change of address or other circumstances this frequently causes difficulty. I will cite some instances with which I have dealt in my office. In all of these cases the people were solely dependent on social welfare income. There was no bar to the renewal of their medical cards. The first instance was an 80-year old man and his 73-year old wife who were cut off because they did not return the forms. They had moved house eight years ago and their new address had never been conveyed to the processing system even though they had visited a doctor and pharmacies regularly during that eight year period. This couple lost their medical card cover abruptly and were refused their monthly prescription. Once the review forms were conveyed to the primary care reimbursement service, PCRS, they were reinstated.

The second case concerns a gentleman who suffers a rare condition, Buergers disease, as a result of which he has had multiple amputations on his hands and feet. He is wholly dependent on the kindness of others and failed to return the forms in the allocated time. This gentleman lost his card cover, was refused prescriptions but has since been reinstated. The third case was cited by Dr. Brendan Crowley in a recent letter to The Irish Times. It concerns an 84-year old woman with Alzheimer’s disease who was unable to arrange to have the forms completed and returned in time. This lady lost her medical card cover for a period but it has been reinstated.

The final case concerns a couple with two adult, intellectually challenged, dependent children. In this instance the forms were completed and returned in the prepaid envelope supplied but the PCRS did not receive the forms. The gentleman rang to check that they had arrived and fresh forms were sent out. These were completed and inserted in the prepaid enveloped but again the PCRS did not receive them. The application was eventually e-mailed from my office and receipt was subsequently acknowledged. This couple had been without medical card cover for some months but thankfully as of last Monday the card was restored because they qualify on medical and income grounds. I am sure that every Member has encountered situations such as this whereby people who do qualify have lost cover through some disruption in the application process but the cover has been restored.

I have a very simple proposal. At present a general practitioner, GP, is notified that the card is due for review and may be cut off. I propose that the pharmacist who filled the most recent prescription should also be notified of the pending review and its possible consequences. Every patient in need of medication must make contact with the pharmacist at least monthly in person or through a representative and the pharmacist is directly concerned with ensuring that the patient has the correct medication and is ideally placed to assist the patient in completing a review.

All that is required is that electronic notification be given to the pharmacist who last dealt with the patient stating that the patient’s medical card is up for review. It could even be a docket that would be inserted into the prescription bag. The patient or the person caring for the patient-----

Acting Chairman (Deputy Seán Kenny)

The Deputy is over his time now.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

I will wrap up. I will make a very short response if the Acting Chairman gives me a bit of leeway.

The patient or the person caring for the patient can be made aware of the requirements of the review and if necessary can be assisted in completing the forms by hand or on-line. The Minister of State will say that many pharmacists can deal with the prescriptions. I propose that the notification would go through the last pharmacist. When I dealt with these cases I asked the people to provide a print-out of their pharmacy costs. In all cases they came from one pharmacy. Most people deal with one pharmacist. I am sure that the Minister of State’s research will show this. I await the Minister of State’s reply and will then make additional comments.

Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Alex White)

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue.

I am somewhat unclear as to the specific procedure the Deputy refers to and I certainly was not aware of the proposal that he was going to make before I approached my response to his contribution to which I have listened very carefully. For the benefit of the House I will outline the procedure that is in place. The HSE, has a very structured protocol in place for the review process and every effort is made for ongoing engagement with persons during this process.

Under the Health Act 1970, eligibility for a medical card is founded primarily on the undue financial hardship test and every application must be assessed on that basis. Under the legislation, determination of an individual's eligibility for a medical card is the responsibility of the HSE. The Health Act 1970 obliges the HSE to assess whether a person is unable, without undue hardship, to arrange GP services for themselves and their family, having regard to their overall financial situation and reasonable expenditure. Under the legislation, having a particular illness or medical condition in itself does not establish eligibility for a medical card. That is the law.

All medical card and GP visit card holders are subject to a periodic review of eligibility to determine continuing eligibility. The HSE makes every effort to provide a person with sufficient time to renew their eligibility. Each month, the HSE analyses the Medical Card Register to identify those medical or GP visit cards that are scheduled for review within three months. A review notification will indicate the card holder should complete a self-assessment or request the card holder to return evidence of household income, assessable outgoings and medical circumstances to enable a full review assessment to be conducted by the HSE. The Deputy has referred to that.

The HSE has increased this notification time to four months in respect of those persons who were granted eligibility on the basis of discretion. This is to allow an additional month to ensure that all pertinent medical and other data is provided for inclusion in the assessment process. A reminder letter is issued a month later if the requested review form details have not been returned at that point. If a person does not return the review form within the time specified, continuing eligibility cannot be confirmed and the medical card cannot be reissued. In these circumstances, or where the review process establishes that a person no longer holds eligibility, the eligibility ceases.

Persons are requested to return their completed review forms at least one month in advance of the due expiry date of their existing eligibility. This is to allow the HSE sufficient time to carry out the review and-or to get back to the individuals, if the application is incomplete or requires any further details to be furnished. Where a review form is returned, but not fully completed by the expiry date, it is HSE policy to extend the eligibility of the client for a reasonable period of time until the review is carried out and a final decision made on the person's continuing eligibility, once there is appropriate communication from the person concerned. Medical card holders who genuinely engage with the review of their medical card eligibility will not have their eligibility withdrawn before that review is complete.

In addition - this comes closer to the specific issue raised by Deputy Ciarán Lynch - a person's GP is kept informed of any review notifications of their patients. GPs are advised three months in advance of the review dates of their patients' GP visit cards or medical cards and, subsequently, the following month and the month after that, if the patient has not returned the review form by that time. GPs have full electronic visibility of the medical card panel of patients available to them and have the facility electronically to allow temporary extension of eligibility for expiring cards where a sensitive renewal is appropriate. The temporary extension may also be allowed where they are aware that a person is still availing of services but there may be something that prevents them from carrying out a standard review, for example, a blind person with little family support.

Given that over 40% of the population, or approximately 2 million people, qualify for a medical card or GP visit card, the scale of the administration of the general medical services, GMS, scheme is significant. Over 700,000 individuals were assessed by the HSE in 2013. Well in excess of 95% of applications were processed within the target of 15 working days. In view of the processes I have outlined, and the experience over 2013 that I mentioned I am satisfied that every effort is made to assist, support and facilitate persons undergoing review. I will consider carefully what the Deputy said with respect to pharmacists, and the involvement of GPs, who can extend the eligibility in certain circumstances. There is a different relationship between the GPs and their patient groups because in the GMS a GP has a list of his or her group which has its own integrity as a list associated with that GP. The same would not be the case in respect of pharmacists for the reason the Deputy has outlined. I will consider what he has raised. I did not have an opportunity to do so before he stood up but I will certainly consider it and come back to the Deputy.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

I thank the Minister of State for his response and for being open to my proposal. The proposal is not a question of changing the qualifying criteria. The criteria remain exactly the same for those who qualify and those who do not. I am proposing a change in the system and its operation that provides a better quality service to the customer who holds the medical card. A difficulty arises for people who fall out of the system and are subsequently entitled. They are penalised for this because they are not reimbursed for any medications they paid for during that period if they do not have medical card cover. The Minister of State is dead right to say that the GP monitors the overall situation but I propose bringing the pharmacists into the equation. Research in my office will show, and I am sure that it would show if the HSE were to carry out detailed research, that most people on medical cards deal with one sole pharmacist. It might be the case that when people are occasionally sick they get medication from the nearest pharmacy on the way home but most people who have an illness deal with one sole pharmacist.

What I am proposing is that they go into the notification system. In the cases I have dealt with, particularly the cases where people had changed address, they had no notification that the card would expire and so were not engaging with the system. The pharmacists might even have had the wrong address. When the person goes to pick up the prescription bag, perhaps there should be a note inside in the bag or some acknowledgement stating that the card is about to expire, outlining the details the pharmacist has and explaining that if the person does not respond, he or she will be out of the system.

What I am proposing is a very small adaptation to the system, one which improves the quality of service which the HSE is providing and which ensures that people who qualify for medical cards do not find themselves temporarily outside of cover, with costs accruing during that period for which they cannot be compensated at a later time. If a person does not have card cover and subsequently re-qualifies for the card, those costs cannot be reimbursed.

Deputy Alex White

As I indicated to the Deputy earlier, I will certainly discuss the issues he raised with the PCRS. One of the drawbacks I foresee, and to which the Deputy alluded, to be fair to him, is the question of which pharmacist to use. The Deputy helpfully suggests it would perhaps be the most recent pharmacist, but it is not necessarily always the case that the most recent pharmacist a person has seen is their usual pharmacist. While I am being slightly speculative, it might very quickly draw the system into having to then notify a multiplicity of pharmacists in respect of one individual, which would obviously be problematic.

The differences I outlined earlier between the pharmacists and the GP are that the GP has a set list and tends to know his or her patients over a period of time. I had a very interesting meeting yesterday with the Irish Pharmacy Union. It makes the point that community pharmacy is very important in our system, and I agree with that. The pharmacists are close to many of the people they see and they very often know their needs. We want to integrate and make sure that the pharmacy profession and pharmacists do that kind of work and have that relationship with their patients, as I know they already do and are anxious to have.

For all of those reasons, I will certainly take seriously what the Deputy has proposed. It is not without complication administratively, I would have thought, but we will have a look at what he is saying.

Rape Crisis Network Funding

Deputy Thomas Pringle

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for accepting this very important matter. A very serious issue has arisen where all of the core funding of the Rape Crisis Network Ireland will be terminated on 31 March 2014. The current responsibility for the funding of €250,000 for the Rape Crisis Network Ireland resides with the new Child and Family Agency. This is a catastrophic situation for victims of sexual violence in Ireland and is likely to result in both the closure of the Rape Crisis Network Ireland and the loss of the critical national programmes currently co-ordinated by it.

Various Government Departments and agencies share responsibility for the protection of Irish citizens from crimes of sexual violence and provide professional responses to those who have been victims of such crimes. Each statutory agency has a partial responsibility, partial knowledge and a partial strategy. The Child and Family Agency has, like all other statutory locations, a partial and reductive knowledge of the complexity of crimes of sexual violence, the needs of victims and the needs of other statutory locations. All core funding is to be cut as a result of this partial and reductive approach. The Child and Family Agency has stated it will, with greatly reduced funds, tender for a service that it requires in terms of its responsibilities. This silo thinking will break up the cross-agency benefits of the Rape Crisis Network Ireland and do huge damage.

There are almost 2,000 rapes and sexual assaults each year in this country and the survivors rely on the support and expertise provided by the Rape Crisis Network Ireland, which is now being undermined by the Child and Family Agency. In the rush for the Child and Family Agency to reduce costs, this decision will do untold damage to the future of the network and impact on the thousands of people who depend on the services it provides. This will happen because the collective knowledge and information gathering of the network will be lost. I urge the Minister to think of the bigger picture and protect the Rape Crisis Network Ireland, maintain its funding and allow it to continue to provide this vital service.

Deputy John Halligan

Sexual violence remains one of the most under-reported and under-recorded violent crimes in this country. It is notoriously difficult to evaluate the levels of the sexual crime and I, the Rape Crisis Network Ireland and other women's organisations would suggest the available figures only represent the tip of the iceberg. Ireland is still out of step with international standards and badly under-funded when it comes to treating sexual assault victims.

Rape crisis centres around the country have seen their Government funding cut by up to 31% since 2009. Despite a huge increase in the need for the organisation's services, some centres are starting 2014 with budget deficits of over €100,000 due to funding cuts last year. This year-on-year reduction in core funding has resulted in the curtailing of services, including education programmes, dedicated clinics for asylum seekers and, significantly, helpline hours and counselling services. In other words, thousands of calls are already being missed every year because of this.

There has been an increase of 23% in first-time callers to the national 24-hour helpline operated by the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre since 2010. International research suggests that sexual violence, and violence against women in particular, increases in times of economic recession, and our own statistics support this theory. In 2012, according to figures I received today, 54% of all calls to the national helpline related to adult sexual violence. Some 41% of sexual abuse incidents disclosed by 322 new clients in 2012 alone included other forms of violence, such as physical and psychological abuse, intimidation and threats to kill.

In conclusion, it is a false economy to cut funding to services. Both the World Health Organisation and the World Bank have produced findings on research commissioned on the cost of violence against women and girls in societies. In the UK alone, the economic cost is estimated to be €26 billion annually.

Minister for Children and Youth Affairs (Deputy Frances Fitzgerald)

I thank Deputies Pringle and Halligan for raising this important topic and I welcome the opportunity to clarify the situation. I absolutely share their concern about this issue in regard to sexual violence and the need to have a cohesive and comprehensive response. Yesterday I had the opportunity to work with the Rape Crisis Network Ireland when I launched two more of its very valuable reports into sexual violence in this country and the various issues that arise in regard to it. For all of those reasons, I welcome the opportunity to clarify the Government's approach to strengthening the provision of domestic and sexual violence services.

While overall responsibility for policy in this area rests with the Minister for Justice and Equality, the new Child and Family Agency, which is under my remit, has specific responsibility for funding rape crisis centres previously funded by the HSE, and it is in that context that I am responding to the House.

The decision taken by the Government to set up the new agency was informed by the work of the task force which I established in September 2011 and which reported in July 2012. The task force considered that domestic and sexual violence services should form an integral part of the remit of the new agency due to the significant impact domestic violence has on children's welfare, as the Deputies have outlined. The recommendation of the task force relating to domestic and sexual violence services was accepted by Government and discussed in this House when we put the legislation for the establishment of the agency through the House some weeks ago. The functions of the agency include responsibility for the care and protection of victims of domestic, sexual or gender-based violence, whether in the context of the family or otherwise.

This area is now, for the first time, under national direction. I want to advise the House that, as part of the establishment of the new Child and Family Agency, a dedicated position of programme manager for domestic, sexual and gender-based violence is being created, so we now have national co-ordination for the first time. The new national programme manager, who is herself very skilled and experienced in the areas to which the Deputies referred, will take up her position on 3 February next.

Funding has also been separated out in order to get absolute clarity given that, previously, it was part of a very broad HSE budget. The budget that has been identified is some €17.4 million for the provision of domestic and sexual violence services.

It includes the funding of 60 services throughout the country, comprising €10 million for 20 crisis refuges, more than €4 million for 16 rape crisis centres and almost €3.5 million for 24 support services. Since the establishment of the agency on 1 January 2014, there has been a single line of accountability for all resources made available to services responding to domestic, sexual and gender-based violence. Previously, there were a range of local funders in children's services, primary care and social inclusion. I further assure the House and have checked again this morning that funding is ring-fenced to provide front-line services in this area.

With respect to support services, I am advised that the Rape Crisis Network of Ireland, RCNI, had a two year contract with the HSE which was due to finish on 31 December 2013. I have discussed this matter with Gordon Jeyes who has been in detailed discussions with the RCNI right through to the end of December when it was fully briefed on the position in place and what was happening. The contract was extended to 31 March 2014 but due to the level of the support services involved and the value of the contract, a tendering process for reappointment of a service is required under EU regulations. We have had many discussions in this House in recent days and weeks about governance, regulations, voluntary bodies and following proper procedures. That is the situation in respect of that particular funding.

The national programme manager with special responsibility for domestic, sexual and gender-based violence will work with the head of procurement in the agency to develop a tender process. It is open to all qualified providers, including the RCNI, which has an excellent track record, to tender for this new contract. As the provision of these supports will involve a tendering process, I hope the House appreciates that I cannot go into too much further detail in advance of the contracts being placed.

Due to the complex nature of the issues involved in domestic and sexually based violence and the need for a co-ordinated and effective response to these issues, the national office for the prevention of domestic, sexual and gender-based violence, Cosc, was established as an executive office in the Department of Justice and Equality in 2007. Cosc formulated a comprehensive cross-Government strategy which combines the best efforts of a very broad range of organisations in this area. This strategy runs to 2014. Cosc is currently in the process of preparing a new cross-sector strategy. This will be important as well.

I believe we have the right structures in place, as I have outlined, to drive forward the much-needed reform of children and family services. We will continue to deliver. I accept the point both Deputies are making about the priority in this area and the importance of the work. We want to deliver a comprehensive and integrated service to vulnerable children and their families, and this will require the support of various Departments and agencies and the support of society in general. We need a broad community response to the issues outlined by the Deputies. There is a new EU directive on working with victims of domestic violence that highlights the need for a very broad-based response in communities. I look forward to discussing that in the House as well.

Deputy Thomas Pringle

I thank the Minister for her response. It raises a number of questions she might address. I take her point that the provision of new services must go out to tender under EU rules. However, this should not be viewed as an economic transaction. It should be viewed as a facility that is important for victims throughout the country. I do not believe the EU tendering rules would state that it must be viewed as a commercial tender. This State could say that this is a vital service for the protection of victims and exceptions could be made to the tendering rules relating to that.

Will it be tendered on the basis that the lowest tender will be accepted? Will the tender reflect the quality of information, the level of support and the amount of work that is required? The Minister said the funding will be ring-fenced. Will it be like the disability funding in the Department of Health where we heard that €35 million was being ring-fenced every year, yet we see that an amount way below that has been spent? Is this the situation that will develop in respect of this? Is the €250,000 allocated for the RCNI ring-fenced for the new contract as well?

Deputy John Halligan

I concur with everything said by my comrade, Deputy Pringle. The rape of a women violates her human rights and dignity. It always has catastrophic effects on the quality of life of the woman who has been violently assaulted, because the violence is not only sexual but can sometimes be extreme and inflict personal and physical damage to the woman. I met some rape victims in the Dáil and spoke to them. It was very difficult for me to listen to what they had to say. I can only say this from my heart in representing women. Recovery for a woman who has been violently assaulted and sexually abused can be complex and difficult. I recognise that it takes a lot of counselling, time, effort and money but, as I said in my opening remarks, a woman's life can be irreparably damaged. Her family and children can be affected, her ability to indulge in sex with her partner or husband can irretrievably damaged and her capacity to think positively can be destroyed. We must be careful when we are talking about cutting funding to that individual woman if she requires complex counselling that costs money and a lot of time and effort. I know the Minister would agree with me on this and I would never argue with her about it. I am sure the Minister has met women, as have I. Money should not be a factor in respect of repairing or at least helping to repair a woman's life.

Deputy Frances Fitzgerald

It is critical that victims of sexual violence have access to services. I have stated my commitment and that of the Government to ring-fence the front-line services that reach out to women and men in that situation. It is very important in this discussion that we separate the importance of support for victims of crimes, including crimes of a sexual nature, and support for services which work with those victims and provide such a comprehensive service throughout the country from the tendering process for a particular piece of work where there are contractual obligations and EU regulations that must be followed if substantial funding is being made to any one provider. I am bit surprised by what Deputy Pringle said about changing the rules in respect of the tendering process because these rules are laid down in law and must be followed, but I take the spirit in which he raised it, which is to accept that invaluable work is being done by the RCNI in terms of the various support structures it offers to rape crisis centres.

I take the point the Deputy is making about the importance of the work but I have outlined very clearly that the intention is to ring-fence front-line services. I have outlined the amounts of money that are going to those services and the very clear position in respect of the tendering process for specific work. I would not want that to be seen as undermining in any way the work that has been done by the RCNI with victims and other organisations.

School Accommodation Provision

Deputy Derek Keating

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for giving me the opportunity to address this issue. If I go over my four minutes, perhaps the Acting Chairman could show me some flexibility?

Acting Chairman (Deputy Seán Kenny)

I am limited by Standing Orders as to what I can do.

Deputy Derek Keating

I accept that. During my 15 years as an elected public representative in Lucan, St. Thomas' national school, St. Thomas' junior national school and Scoil Áine Naofa have been promised new buildings to meet demands and address the unacceptable and chronic state of the prefabricated classrooms that currently exist.

The Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Quinn, knows about this situation, as I have discussed it with him formally and informally.

These two schools have been promised new buildings a number of times, interestingly, just prior to general elections. Once Fianna Fáil was elected, however, their files went to the bottom of the list. The current circumstances cannot continue. The health of children is being put at risk. Parents, teachers and community leaders are joining with me in demanding that at least a remedial response be put in place to address this crisis and to deliver what is required, that being, two new schools for an educational institution that serves and is the most sought after in a community that is among the fastest growing in the country and with the youngest population.

A further major issue that has caused considerable hurt and confusion is the Minister's reported comments last weekend on less teaching of religion in school. These two schools have strong church names. In Lucan, there is a belief that a secular policy has been adopted. Both schools are, for all intents and purposes, multidenominational and multicultural, a fact they celebrate at every opportunity.

The problem is that these buildings are old. The temporary buildings need to be replaced. There is a crisis. I have formally asked the Minister to meet a delegation. I would be happy to organise that meeting. In light of the serious question arising about the criteria being used and given our limited resources and the Department's positive response in seeking to address the many educational and school building needs that remain outstanding due to the legacy that we have inherited, I cannot understand why these schools have not had their needs addressed. With respect, other schools do not have the same obvious needs, including damp, unsatisfactory and unhealthy prefabricated buildings.

Minister of State at the Department of Education and Skills (Deputy Ciarán Cannon)

I thank the Deputy for raising this matter, as it provides me with the opportunity to clarify the position of the application for major capital funding from the St. Thomas' junior and Scoil Áine senior national schools in Lucan. I am somewhat familiar with the issue, as it has been raised with me a number of times by the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Fitzgerald, and other Government colleagues in the area.

St. Thomas' and Scoil Áine are junior and senior primary schools, respectively, catering for both boys and girls operating under the patronage of the Catholic bishop of Dublin. The St. Thomas' junior school has been in operation since 1976, with Scoil Áine opening in 1980. Enrolments at St. Thomas' for the school year 2012-13 amounted to 514 pupils, an increase of 8% over the past five years. Enrolments at Scoil Áine for the same school year amounted to 531 pupils, an increase of 6% over the past five years. Since last September, St. Thomas' has had a principal plus 18 mainstream teaching posts and Scoil Áine has had a principal plus 19 mainstream teaching posts. There is no question but that these are significant learning institutions in a densely populated part of Dublin city.

The brief for the major building project is to provide two 20-classroom schools and appropriate ancillary accommodation, including general purpose rooms. This is to be provided on the current school site. The design team for the project was appointed in March 2012. The project is at an early stage of architectural planning. Stage 1 was approved in May 2013 and the boards of management and their design team were authorised to proceed to complete stage 2A, which involves developing the more detailed design of the schools. The stage 2A report is nearing completion and a date is being finalised between my Department's officials, the boards of management and their design team to hold a stage 2A stakeholders meeting. Thereafter, and assuming no other issues arise, the project will be progressed to stage 2B, which is the final design stage of the architectural planning process and includes statutory applications along with completion of the tender documents.

The Deputy will be aware that 28 additional projects not previously included in the five-year construction programme were authorised to progress to construction under the jobs and investment package announced last July. This was made possible by the allocation of an additional €50 million for my Department's capital programme. All of these projects had secured planning permission and were nearing completion of stage 2B. In other words, they were very close to beginning construction. At the time, it was appropriate that they be included as additional projects. However, the project for St. Thomas' and Scoil Áine was not at a sufficiently advanced stage of architectural planning to be considered for inclusion at the time. The project remains available to be considered for progression in that context should further funding become available.

Regarding temporary accommodation on site, a review of a number of the units at Scoil Áine took place in 2013 and a devolved grant of €200,000 was sanctioned to provide two new classrooms to replace some of the existing temporary units. My Department has no applications on hand for replacement temporary accommodation at either school. However, if there are prefabs in poor condition, it is open to the boards of management to submit applications for replacement accommodation in the interim.

Deputy Derek Keating

Lest I forget to do so at the end, I thank the Minister of State. I must impress on him the need for an urgent meeting. I have spoken to the Minister, Deputy Quinn, about this matter. I do not know whether he had a chance to speak with the Minister of State beforehand, as he could not attend, but I would be grateful if the Minister of State could confirm whether the Minister has agreed to meet a small delegation from the schools.

The boards of management and authorities at the St. Thomas' and Scoil Áine schools will take no comfort from the fact that the project remains available for consideration for progression should further funding become available. The Minister of State will not be surprised to hear me say that. He provided a history of the project. Despite the fact that the project was not at an advanced stage at a particular point, it had previously gone through the hoops several times. There is frustration all around.

I assure the Government that the significant increase in the number of pupils witnessed during the period set out by the Minister of State would have been far greater had there been the capacity. The boards of management have needed to make difficult choices because of the restrictions on their accommodation.

Although further funding was made available for temporary accommodation, I assure the Minister of State that some of the conditions would need to be seen to be believed. I hope that the Minister will be able to experience them for himself at the appropriate time through the meeting that I have requested, which I hope the Minister of State will now confirm.

Deputy Ciarán Cannon

The 28 other projects that were included in the stimulus programme last year were either ready to go to construction or close to it. Planning for a substantial development such as this one is a tortuous process and requires significant input from a school's community and the Department's architectural and engineering experts. It is safe to say that the project in question is far along that process. Indeed, it is nearing the end. I assure the community that the process is ongoing and will continue until the project is at an advanced stage of architectural planning and is considered for inclusion in any other stimulus programme that may arise.

If very poor conditions obtain in some of the prefabs, it is open to the boards of management to make an application for replacement temporary accommodation. Following a policy in the programme for Government, we have replaced almost 45% of prefabs across the country. We agree with the Deputy wholeheartedly that we do not need our children to be educated in what were supposedly temporary replacements but became permanent solutions for many schools.

The Minister confirmed to me today, following communication from the Deputy, the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Fitzgerald, and other Government colleagues in the area, that he is available to meet the board of management and perhaps representatives of the wider school community with a view towards reassuring them of the significant progress that has been made to date on this project under this Government and outlining to them where we go next in delivering it ultimately.

Schools Building Projects Administration

Deputy James Bannon

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for taking this important Topical Issue matter this afternoon, the purpose of which is to highlight the urgent need to provide two additional classrooms during the refurbishment of the existing school at St. Matthew's national school in Ballymahon, County Longford. Currently the school project involves major renovations of the old boys' four classroom school, with an additional four new classrooms, library, staffroom, four special tuition rooms, store and associated ancillary works - toilets included - and the doubling in size of the general purpose room and playing area.

The current project is at an advanced stage and it would make a lot of sense to have the additional accommodation provided now for a variety of reasons. The most important reason is from a health and safety point of view while the pupils are at alternative accommodation. It would also eliminate the provision of temporary additional prefabs to meet the needs of the school and avoid the board of management going down the devolved grant route. The Minister of State said that since this Government came to office, we have got rid of 45% of prefab buildings in our schools. To force the board of management of Ballymahon national school to go down this route would be a retrograde step, and perhaps the Minister of State would take note of that.

There is an urgency to provide these classrooms to facilitate the demand for places at the school caused by the increased population levels in the Ballymahon area of County Longford. There was a rural school a few years ago in Gurteen, just outside Ballymahon. When it closed the pupils from the area came into the town of Ballymahon. It is a rapidly expanding area with a population that has increased by more than one third in the last 15 years or so, according to the latest census figures, and is still rising as a result of increasing pressure for housing in the area due to being a satellite town for the city of Athlone. Families are moving into the town to accommodate the increasing overspill from Athlone. Property is cheaper in Ballymahon than it is in Athlone and that is enticing families to move to this town. Those houses are primarily occupied by young families, which leaves a much greater demand for school places in Ballymahon than was the case ten or even five years ago.

St. Matthew's national school is one of the main providers of primary education in the area and urgently needs these extra classrooms and other facilities. The building programme for this school has been the subject of many questions and representations by me since the early architectural stage was initiated when more than 200 pupils were accommodated in the old building. The current pupil numbers stand at 239, already qualifying for nine classes. I understand that extra prefabs have been approved by the Department and I also understand that there are 28 students enrolled for September even before enrolment day in March, which will bring it to a quota for ten classrooms. I also understand that the National Council for Special Education has identified the need for a special needs unit for south Longford at Ballymahon.

I compliment the board of management at the school in Ballymahon, under the stewardship of Sheelagh Canavan, as well as the principal, teachers and staff at the school for their work on this project to date. I have had great co-operation from them as a public representative for the area. It would make a lot of common sense, from a health and safety point of view, a security point of view and so on, to finish the project now that there is a contractor on site. It would be a retrograde step not to complete the project at this stage.

Deputy Ciarán Cannon

I thank the Deputy for raising this matter as it affords me the opportunity to outline the position on the building project for St. Matthew's national school in Ballymahon, County Longford, in the context of the Government's overall strategy for capital investment in education projects over the next few years.

Decisions relating to meeting the accommodation needs of schools, including St. Matthew's, over the coming years must be considered in the context of the need for additional school places at both primary and post-primary level. I have previously outlined to the House the scale of the demographic growth in the school-going population which must be catered for under the five year construction programme to 2016 and subsequent years.

To meet this need, the Department must establish new schools as well as extending or replacing a number of existing schools in areas where demographic growth has been identified. The Department's overriding objective in identifying school building projects to progress to tender and construction is to ensure every child has access to a physical school place and that our school system is in a position to cope with increasing pupil numbers. To ensure this is achieved, the delivery of major school projects to meet significant demographic demands nationally will be the main focus for capital investment in schools in the coming years. The five year school building programme that the Minister, Deputy Quinn, announced in March 2012 is focused on meeting those demographic needs.

The school building project for St. Matthew's mixed national school was included in the Department's five year plan and was announced to progress to construction in 2012. The project encountered some delays initially but subsequently progressed to construction in May 2013. After the project began construction, the school authorities sought to change the brief by adding additional classrooms. There is always a considerable contractual risk in seeking to change the brief of a project once construction has begun. Following a review of the long-term requirements for St. Matthew's national school, it was agreed to provide additional accommodation, either by way of change order on the current contract or as a devolved grant. As two classrooms are required in the short term, with a further two likely to be required at a later stage, it was agreed to seek planning permission for four classrooms.

The additional accommodation sought by the school authorities equates to approximately 26% of the overall accommodation being provided. Given the advanced stage of the project on site, the proposal at this late post-contract stage of the project to add accommodation opens up considerable contractual risk and associated cost to both the school and the Department, as the funding authority. In light of this, the more appropriate means of delivering further accommodation at St. Matthew's national school is by way of devolved funding, under a separate contract.

Deputy James Bannon

I thank the Minister of State for his response. It is not what I had hoped to hear in the response, but I would like to let him know that planning permission has been granted for 12 classrooms at this school. To proceed with the devolved scheme would greatly affect the development of the school, and there would be a loss of extended car parking space, a play area for children and so on if it were to go down this route after a 12 month period. The devolved scheme, under a new tender appointment, could only begin work after a period of 12 months in which a contractor is responsible for the current building. The delay would be unnecessary. The pupils are out of the school at the moment. They are in alternative accommodation and if the students were put back into the school, we the board of management would have to provide, with the assistance of the Department, security around the school while the two classrooms were being constructed.

This will have a knock-on effect of forcing the board of management to request the funding of temporary accommodation for the forthcoming academic year.

The Minister of State indicated it is Government policy to eliminate the use of prefabricated buildings. It does not make sense to waste money hiring or purchasing prefabricated buildings when the project could be completed while builders are on site. I plead with the Minister of State to ensure common sense prevails and the position is reviewed as quickly as possible. I ask that a meeting be arranged between the board of management of the school and the Department's building unit to try to advance this project.

The two temporary classrooms and additional special tuition prefabricated unit are to be located adjacent to a play area at the front of the new school building. This will have a negative visual impact on the building and will give rise to complaints and annoyance with the manner in which the Department operates. I ask that the Department take a common sense approach and allow the current contractor to complete the project in full.

I also acknowledge positive developments in the schools building programme. For example, the Department is building one of the finest schools in the midlands in Edgeworthstown. The construction project is at an advanced stage and the school will be the largest in the midlands when completed.

Deputy Ciarán Cannon

The Department is most definitely adopting a common sense approach in dealing with matter. The Deputy suggested that a meeting be arranged with the board of management. A meeting with the board took place last August and there has been significant and ongoing communication with the board since then.

The architects and engineers working in the Department's building unit possess great wisdom, knowledge and experience. There is always a considerable contractual risk in seeking to change the brief of a project once construction has commenced. While it may have been possible to do so at an earlier stage, the works have reached an advanced stage. The timing of the application from the school authorities, the need to design the proposed changes, the current progress on site and the cost of the works present a considerable contractual risk to the board of management and it would not be wise to subject it to such risk. The option remains of progressing the application for two additional classrooms via a devolved grant. This approach is the most cost effective, low risk option for the school authority.

Sitting suspended at 1.45 p.m. and resumed at 2.45 p.m.