Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 30 Jan 2014

Vol. 828 No. 3

Other Questions

Wind Energy Generation

Catherine Murphy

Question:

6. Deputy Catherine Murphy asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if he has considered the recent European Commission communication on Blue Energy (details supplied); if he will indicate the State's readiness actively to undertake concrete measures to achieve the objectives set out and if he will describe these measures, especially in relation to offshore wind; if he intends to submit an application to the European Commission for state aid approval in respect of a REFIT support mechanism for offshore wind; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4292/14]

Deputy Catherine Murphy

If the recent debate on pylons and wind turbines serves to highlight anything it is to show the limitations on the generation of onshore wind energy. The debate is moving rapidly to offshore wind energy. In 2012 offshore wind energy grew by 33% across the European Union. We seem to be missing out in that area. In the past week the European Commission presented a communication on blue energy to the European Parliament and Council. That is the subject of this question.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

I welcome the publication last week by the European Commission of its Communication on Blue Energy, which specifically deals with wave and tidal energy technologies. The communication gives a very clear assessment of the enormous potential of ocean energy, identifying the Atlantic seaboard as the area of highest potential in the EU. The communication also highlights the importance for EU energy security of developing this clean, indigenous, energy source and the particular benefit of this dimension for island member states. With an estimate of the sector creating 40,000 jobs by 2035, there is clearly a huge opportunity here for the EU.

The issues covered, and actions proposed in the communication correlate with the content of the Offshore Renewable Energy Development Plan, OREDP, which I will publish shortly. It is clear from the work that my Department has been undertaking to develop the OREDP, and the work the Commission has undertaken on blue energy, that cross-cutting action is required to maintain support for this sector if it is to reach commercial viability successfully. Collaborative work at national and EU levels on areas such as environmental monitoring, research and development, consenting procedures and infrastructure requirements will all be critical to realising the potential of this sector as a source of sustainable employment and economic growth, especially in those coastal communities where job creation is particularly challenging.

The implementation of the OREDP, led by my Department, will be the mechanism through which a fully co-ordinated Government approach will be taken across the environmental, energy and economic development sectors to ensure that Ireland realises the commercial development of its abundant offshore energy potential, which is among the best in the world. The OREDP will also facilitate our contribution to the achievement of EU blue energy objectives.

Deputy Catherine Murphy

The concern is that we are behind the curve in using the potential we have and which others would envy. Austria, Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Italy and Portugal called for the EU to set a 2030 goal for renewable energy use but that is not how we are going to state our ambition in the climate change policy. It appears there is a conflict. I produced a Bill that sought just that. Our climate change legislation will not produce targets, it will produce sectoral plans. That is what seems to be called for at European level.

We should be considering policy development for offshore wind feed in tariff schemes to make it attractive for people to invest and not be looking for parcels of land. I want to see wind energy exported in the same way as tomatoes or beef or anything else but we can do it in a way that does not have the kind of impacts that large industrial onshore turbines would have. Even Portugal, which is under pressure, is investing in floating platforms for wind energy. There are ways of doing it and we are behind the curve.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

I made the point earlier that our system of government does not place any responsibility for policy-making on Opposition Deputies and God knows I was one for long enough. It is equally true that it is a feature of Irish policy-making that as soon as a great idea about developing renewable energy from onshore wind farms, for example, begins to become a reality its earlier proponents start to run away and discover that maybe we should do it offshore. I do not make that allegation in the case of Deputy Catherine Murphy because I do not doubt her commitment to the question of renewable energy. Time and again during the debate on this topic I have seen opposition fomented to the build-out of the grid and people who should know better giving credence to claims that we know are not objectively or scientifically valid. There are valid complaints but there are also complaints that are not supported by science. I do not believe that we are behind the curve in this area. I do not believe that climate change policy is inconsistent with Deputy Murphy’s argument that there ought to be sectoral plans. That is what is happening here. I hope to publish the OREDP within the next month. That is a sectoral plan focused on the area of substantial concern in Deputy Murphy’s question.

Deputy Catherine Murphy

When submissions on onshore energy were called for I made one outlining how that should happen. Unfortunately, we often develop policy the wrong way around. We make the mistake and then try to fix it. We should have studied how they did it in Denmark where the community is involved and where the Aarhus Convention has real meaning. The people who have responsibility for developing the policy have made mistakes. All the criticism can be on this side but we have got away from the point I am trying to make in the question, about the potential for offshore development. That is my focus today. It is very easy to absorb the time by focussing where the row is now.

It is on future policy development and the conflict on the climate change policy we are going to develop. What the Minister is signing up to, with other European energy Ministers, would seem to be at variance with our national policy on that, which is about a target, not just a sectoral plan.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

There may be genuine misunderstanding on my part, or between us, because I do not see where Deputy Murphy is going. I am doing exactly what she is asking me to do. Within the next four weeks I will be publishing the sectoral plan. She is free to criticise it then, and if she praises it, I will have to go and lie down in a dark room for some time.

Deputy Catherine Murphy

That is not my form.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

However, let us wait until she sees it. When it is published, she can criticise it.

In terms of the Aarhus Convention, nobody can say this country suffers from a lack of consultation.

Deputy Catherine Murphy

After the event.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

I do not dispute we have made mistakes in the past - of course, that goes without saying. However, I hope we have learned a lot of lessons as well. In terms of the conflict ongoing at the moment, I have always said that the litmus test of the consultation process would be the character of response. One arranges to respond positively to the concerns raised by people, and there is still a Deputy or two in the House who seek to condemn one for doing what it is they asked one to do three weeks ago. That is life.

Electricity Transmission Network

Michael Colreavy

Question:

7. Deputy Michael Colreavy asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources the studies that have been carried out into the possibilities of undergrounding of electricity pylons here; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4295/14]

Mick Wallace

Question:

11. Deputy Mick Wallace asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources his views on whether EirGrid's approach to public consultation on the Grid Link project to date has complied with the Aarhus Convention; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4340/14]

Mick Wallace

Question:

13. Deputy Mick Wallace asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources the reason the Grid Link project, a major public investment programme, is proceeding in the absence of a national energy strategy; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4341/14]

Clare Daly

Question:

18. Deputy Clare Daly asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if he will halt the Grid Link 25 project until a comprehensive cost-benefit analysis is implemented regarding the underground option, and the cost of overground pylons of the more modern and advanced tower designs which reduce visibility and EMF. [4118/14]

Seán Sherlock

Question:

122. Deputy Sean Sherlock asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if he has been furnished with an economic needs analysis report in relation to Grid 25; if EirGrid have supplied internal documentation that speaks to the economic necessity of the project; and if he will make available the documentation for the economic analysis for Grid 25. [4715/14]

Deputy Michael Colreavy

My question has been superseded somewhat by yesterday's announcement but there are two issues flowing out of it, one of which has already been addressed by Deputy Moynihan. Yesterday, in response to a question during Leaders' Questions, the Taoiseach said:

...the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, is meeting the chairperson on Friday to discuss the programme of work. That programme of work by EirGrid includes Grid Link, Grid West and the already advanced work done on the North-South interconnector. I would like the commission's remit being extended to cover that, so that there is equality of assessment and fairness for people all over the country and that whatever the decision at the end of the day is, based on costs and all those other factors, people will clearly understand the nature of the decision to be made.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy, this is just a 30-second introduction.

Deputy Michael Colreavy

First, we should probably break the staffing embargo to get an interpreter because I do not understand that. Will the Minister state clearly whether the North-South interconnector will be part of this study?

Deputy Finian McGrath

Who is telling porkies, Deputy Seán Conlan or the Minister? Good morning, Minister.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

Good morning, Deputy McGrath. I hope that, as he told me, the people of Marino, Raheny and Clontarf are still welcoming my legislative proposals. I am very pleased about that. In response to Deputy Colreavy, the Taoiseach's reference to the programme of work is a reference to EirGrid's programme of work.

I propose to take Questions Nos. 7, 11, 13, 18 and 122 together.

EirGrid’s Grid25 national transmission grid development programme is vital for future socio-economic progress in Ireland, for regional development throughout Ireland, and to ensure that current and future generations of consumers have access to more reliable, sustainable and affordable energy. Grid25 represents an investment in the electricity transmission system of around €3.2 billion in the coming 15 to 20 years.

During the course of engagement by EirGrid in the recent public consultation processes, and most recently in regard to the Grid Link project, on which 35,000 submissions were received, a number of key concerns emerged. This has necessitated considerable review and reflection in order to determine the optimum approach needed to address those concerns that are valid, while at the same time ensuring adequate and effective transmission capacity in the State. Arising from examination of the concerns expressed, I have proposed a number of measures to deal with the immediate concerns on the Grid West and Grid Link projects, while also addressing the generality of commentary on the need to improve stakeholder and community engagement on all Grid25 projects for the future.

As Deputy Colreavy said, I have appointed an independent panel of experts, to be chaired by former Supreme Court judge, Mrs. Justice Catherine McGuinness. The panel of experts will decide the terms of reference for comprehensive, route-specific studies of fully underground and overhead options for both the Grid Link and the Grid West projects. The panel will be required to ensure that the studies are complete, objective and comparable, and will report to me on these matters in due course. Both the overhead and underground options will be published side-by-side, in objective and comparable terms, before consideration is given to the appropriate next steps for each of the projects.

EirGrid will be required to undertake the two studies, as determined by the independent panel of experts, which will take account of, inter alia, environmental and visual amenity impacts, technical efficacy and cost factors. The independent panel will have power to commission additional work if there is any perceived deficiency in the studies presented.

Detailed studies have already been conducted for the North-South transmission line, including consideration of a route-specific underground option and, most recently, an assessment by the independent international commission of experts, appointed in July 2011, which reported in February 2012. Previously, in 2009, the then Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources commissioned an independent study on the comparative merits of overhead electricity transmission lines versus underground cables. That study was conducted by international consultants, Ecofys. The route-specific underground analysis, conducted by PB Power, found that the cost of undergrounding would significantly exceed the cost of the more usual overhead cables. The PB Power analysis was considered and confirmed by the independent commission, which estimated that the cost of undergrounding would be at least three times that of overhead cables. EirGrid has taken full account of the contents of those studies in finalising the planning application. I understand An Bord Pleanála will be considering the alternatives, including the possible use of underground cables, considered by EirGrid prior to EirGrid's selection of the preferred overhead option. EirGrid will be required to present its position on the alternatives in its environmental impact statement, which will form part of its planning application. The application is expected to be lodged shortly with An Bord Pleanála.

As the Deputies will know, EirGrid has been engaging in comprehensive processes in regard to Grid Link and Grid West, including the opening of regional information centres. EirGrid has set out its vision for development of the national transmission system through the Grid25 strategy which was published in October 2008. In accordance with its statutory and licence responsibilities as the transmission system operator, the company has prepared a transmission development plan for the period 2013 to 2023. The transmission development plan presents the developments which will be required to deliver the Grid25 strategy, meeting future requirements as they are known at this time, including the requirement to accommodate renewable generation. The vision articulated in the Grid25 strategy is assessed and reassessed on a regular basis, having regard to current and future demand and other factors, and is consulted on through the transmission development plan. Details of the strategy and the transmission development plan for 2013 to 2023 are available on the EirGrid website. In addition, at a project level, detailed needs assessments for each of the major Grid25 projects have been undertaken and are available on EirGrid's website.

It is my strong wish that these measures will comprehensively address the issues that have arisen with the Grid25 projects to the satisfaction of all interested parties.

Deputy Michael Colreavy

Therefore, the answer on the North-South route is "No", obviously. Given the planning application is going in within a matter of weeks and this study will not be commenced and will certainly not be concluded within a matter of weeks, despite all that has been said, the answer is "No, it will not be included".

There is a second question. Who is going to prepare and publish the terms of reference for the expert committee? Will there be an opportunity for the public to consider those terms of reference? Will there perhaps be an opportunity for the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Transport and Communications to consider the draft terms of reference before they are finalised? If we have comprehensive and good terms of reference, we have a chance of getting a good outcome from it. However, incomplete terms of reference would render any subsequent report valueless or of limited value.

Could the Minister explain how the terms of reference will be prepared, who is going to do it and whether or not the draft terms of reference can be considered by the Oireachtas or the public?

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

The terms of reference will be decided by the expert panel under Mrs. Justice Catherine McGuinness and will derive from the public consultation process just ended. There is no great mystery about it. In respect of the initial report I received from EirGrid regarding its initial consideration of the 35,000 submissions, there is a great deal of repetition and duplication. Undergrounding versus overgrounding, the quality of engagement in the public consultation process, despoliation of the environment, damage to visual amenities, equine health and cost factors are all issues that must be addressed in respect of non-ionising radiation. They are the concerns and they will point to it. The commission has not yet convened. No doubt, Deputy Colreavy will come back to this at future Question Times.

Deputy Mick Wallace

I have heard the Minister throw so much cold water on the idea of undergrounding in the past few months. He will have to forgive me for suspecting that it might have a bit more to do with the local elections. In its submission on the Grid Link project, An Taisce argued that EirGrid's failure to facilitate public consultation on the preliminary decisions made in respect of the current Grid Link proposal presents a fundamental legal issue for the project as it does not comply with article 6.4 of the Aarhus Convention which states that each party shall provide for "early public participation, when all options are open and effective public participation can take place". Does the Minister believe that EirGrid's approach thus far has complied with the convention?

In respect of public participation and decision making, the Minister is probably aware of a statement yesterday by the Environmental Pillar. It has called on the Government to initiate an inclusive participatory process to develop a comprehensive national strategy on energy. It argued that such a strategy must clearly outline how the energy requirements of future generations can be met in the face of climate change and how energy usage can be reduced and the need to set out the pathway to achieve zero or near zero carbon emissions from energy by 2050. Does the Minister agree that a national energy strategy must be developed and used as the basis for any decisions on proposed energy infrastructure projects? Why is a major public investment programme going ahead in the absence of such a strategy?

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

I never associated Deputy Wallace with the kind of cynical disposition that would suggest as he did that I might in any way be motivated by impending elections. I am afraid it misunderstands the very nature of energy projects. If the initiative that I announced yesterday had never happened, it was the intention of EirGrid to lodge the planning application in 2016. That date will now inevitably be pushed back six months, a year or whatever. I do not know. Before yesterday's announcement, EirGrid's intention was to proceed full steam ahead and have the planning application ready to be lodged in 2016. Asking me, as I have been asked elsewhere, about local elections has nothing to do with this. Energy projects are long-term and that was what I was referring to when I said it could not be decided on the whim of a passing fashion after I was asked a question like the one the Deputy just asked me about local elections. This is a long-term decision that must be made in what is considered to be in the best interests of the public. That is the time-span that was envisaged. I know the phrase has been misrepresented but I have lived with that kind of thing for a long time.

There is no doubt in my mind that we have complied in every way with the principles of public participation set out in the Aarhus Convention. It is not the formal consultative arrangements that are at issue here. It is criticism by both sides of this House of the quality of the engagement. Nobody criticises the fact that there was a prolonged consultation period. There were dozens of days of public consultation and offices were opened in different parts of the country. The criticisms that have come back to me are about the quality of the engagement. It is that which the new chairman of EirGrid, John O'Connor, is being asked to assess in the package of measures announced yesterday. He is being asked to deal with the question about the quality of engagement in the future. There are no defects in the formal consultation procedures but if every side of this House criticises the nature of the engagement and queries whether the engineers are listening, I must have regard to that. People's concerns in that regard must be responded to.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Do Deputies Colreavy and Wallace have questions?

Deputy Mick Wallace

If what the Minister says is correct, can he explain why when Pat Swords went in to the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe Convention on Access to Information, Public Participation in Decision-Making and Access to Justice in Environmental Matters in 2011, it was found that article 7 of the convention was breached in that Ireland failed to report on how the arrangements for public participation were transparent and fair and how within these arrangements, the necessary information was provided to the public.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

What was that case about?

Deputy Mick Wallace

Pat Swords went to the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe Convention on Access to Information, Public Participation in Decision-Making and Access to Justice in Environmental Matters.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

On what issue?

Deputy Mick Wallace

On how the Government had not adhered to the Aarhus Convention rules in the initial stages of-----

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

On the transmission process?

Deputy Mick Wallace

Yes, and he won his case.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

All I can do is blame the previous Government.

Deputy Mick Wallace

The point that this has nothing to do with the local elections reminds me of the time when the Minister said on the radio that this is what one does during elections. That is why hearing about the Minister's serious U-turn made me a little suspicious.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Does the Minister wish to reply?

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

For the umpteenth time, I wish to state that this is a misrepresentation as well. I was replying to a flurry of cross-examination about why I did not spell out our policy then on child benefit rather than simply stating in an advertisement. I said, "Isn't that what you do during an election?", meaning simply as stated. You do not get a chance to write an essay when campaigning on a radio show.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

The Minister is famed for his rhetorical skills

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

Deputy Boyd Barrett is not exactly a novice himself. He has spent a lifetime in training for the platform he now has.

Written Answers follow Adjournment.