Vol. 829 No. 1
82. Deputy Barry Cowen asked the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government the money that was provided by the Exchequer for the establishment of Irish Water in 2012, 2013 and in 2014; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5255/14]
Does Deputy Cowen wish to introduce his question?
I think the past three weeks introduced the question better than I ever could.
No Exchequer funding was provided to Bord Gáis or Irish Water in 2012 or 2013 for the establishment costs of Irish Water. In 2014 Irish Water, which now has statutory responsibility for water services, will receive €240 million in equity from the Minister for Finance and €490 million from the Local Government Fund but no other funding from the Department’s Vote for establishment or other costs.
My Department has provided funding towards the costs of implementing the water sector reform programme. These costs amount to €15.7 million during the period 2012 to 2013. The majority of this expenditure related to funding provided to local authorities to meet the costs of the pre-installation survey required as part of the domestic metering programme and the staffing costs of the water services transition office, which was put in place to ensure appropriate arrangements for engagement with the local authority sector during the reform process. It is estimated that my Department will provide some €2 million during 2014 in respect of my Department’s programme management costs and the cost of the water services transition office. I also expect that some €5 million will be recouped to local authorities in connection with road opening licence work associated with the national domestic metering programme. I remind the Deputy that Irish Water is currently preparing a business plan which will include its capital investment programme, conservation plan and operational costs for 2014 and 2015.
I thank the Minister for clarifying the amount of funding his Department has provided to Irish Water. He stated on television recently that a figure of €180 million was open to being questioned by an Oireachtas committee, but we now know that is not the case because the money was raised by means of a commercial loan between the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Bord Gáis. A commercial loan worth €540 million was also raised from the NPRF for the provision of water meters.
Despite the fact that they have committed, as per the order of last week, in relation to the Freedom of Information Act, I want to question the Minister on the contribution made by the Minister of State, Deputy Fergus O'Dowd, subsequent to the motion placed before the Dáil a number of weeks ago.
I thank the Deputy.
The Leas-Cheann Comhairle must allow me to proceed. I did not elaborate on the introduction of the question and should be allowed a little time to put this question.
That is not the way it works.
Can the Minister state any question emanating from this side of the House or Government Deputies on the figures of €180 million and €540 million will be answered in the normal fashion because the Minister of State, Deputy Fergus O'Dowd, stated, because of the way the money had been raised, that it was not open to the usual line of questioning by Members?
As the Deputy will be aware, we are conscious of the importance of full transparency in these matters, particularly when it comes to funding Irish Water, directly or indirectly. As we promised at the Oireachtas joint committee, we are setting up an office in Irish Water to ensure there will be parliamentary accountability. I hope that work will be completed shortly. Any additional information we can provide, either through the direct presence of Irish Water at an Oireachtas committee or directly through a parliamentary reply, including on the figure of €240 million, will be made available in line with the undertaking the Minister of State and I have given.
The Minister is confirming that he is in the process of putting a mechanism in place by which answers may emanate from Irish Water, but, as it stands, in the case of the figures of €180 million and €540 million, it remains the position that the Department is not obliged to answer any question asked of the Minister in the normal fashion by Members of this House on behalf of taxpayers, as would be the case in relation to parliamentary questions.
We are conscious of the need to ensure there would be a direct response to Members of this House on money, by loan or otherwise, for the operational or business costs associated with Irish Water. That will be the case and I will certainly see to it that it is carried out.
83. Deputy Brian Stanley asked the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government the input of his Department on the environmental aspects of pylons and underground cables as part of the review being established by the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources. [5348/14]
Does the Deputy want to introduce the question?
The strategic environmental assessment, SEA, directive, 2001/42/EC, which has been transposed into Irish law, establishes the process by which environmental considerations are required to be fully integrated into the preparation of plans and programmes prior to their final adoption. It is the responsibility of the competent authority in the relevant sector, in this case EirGrid, to determine if plans and programmes being prepared by it fall within the scope of the SEA directive and to determine whether there is a requirement to carry out an environmental assessment in consultation with the environmental authorities under the regulation. While my Department has no direct role in the process, I understand an environmental report was published on the Grid25 project.
In announcing the establishment of an expert panel to oversee the preparation of reports on the best route options for the provision of high voltage power lines, the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources also announced additional steps being taken to address matters that may arise in the expert panel's considerations. One of these additional measures is a study that will be commissioned by my Department which will engage expert assistance to review and report on international developments in respect of the potential health risks of electromagnetic fields emanating from transmission grid infrastructure. In March 2007 the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources published the report of the expert group established to examine the health effects of electromagnetic fields. The purpose of the new study will be to provide the best available information on published, peer reviewed scientific literature relating to non-ionising radiation and associated health-related matters, work carried out under and the findings of relevant international bodies, relevant international and national standards and guidelines since the publication of the 2007 report. I expect the invitation to tender to issue shortly through the eTenders website, with a view to commissioning the study by early March. The estimated completion time of the study is approximately two to three months, thus allowing completion and presentation of the final report by early summer.
With the establishment of the review, the Minister's colleagues have obviously recognised that this issue needs to be examined further and that the consultation was inadequate.
The Minister's view of the current position is obviously based on the fact that there are problems. Is he happy that this development is not having a negative effect on farming, habitats and the environment generally? He seemed to say EirGrid and other companies involved could decide whether they should have an environmental assessment carried out. He basically said it was up to them to decide, but is he happy that his Department will let them do so? Perhaps he might explain how the companies involved in the midlands wind energy for export projects are using underground cables. The former CEO of EirGrid, Mr. Dermot Byrne, who is now with Element Power, one of the companies concerned, has had a Pauline conversion on the issue of undergrounding. As these companies are profit-based, even more so than EirGrid, why have they now decided to place cables underground?
I am not going to speak about a particular company or project. I am not aware of the details involved.
No, I am generalising.
Yes. The SEA directive which has been transposed into Irish law establishes a process to consider all matters relating to the environment. The expert panel will review all of the processes to see if they are required. It will not be within the sole remit of EirGrid to decide that issue. Some 35,000 submissions were made on these matters. The Government is entitled to examine public opinions as expressed through the submissions and that is what we are doing.
I hope the Minister is not taking account only of these 35,000 submissions but also of the opinions that will be expressed on 23 June. I hope that is not the motivation.
What is happening on 23 June?
I am sorry - 23 May. I hope the 35,000 submissions have made the Minister realise that he needs to take a second look at this issue. He is organising a report on electromagnetic fields and will engage expert assistance, but who does he have in mind in this regard? When will that process begin and conclude? I hope it will not be a cut and paste version of the European Commission's report that is supposed to be issued today.
Will the Minister clarify, with a brief yes or no answer, the position on the North-South interconnector? The Taoiseach now says it is included, but the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Pat Rabbitte, is unsure. The chairperson of the commission said the expert panel would "Consider what, if anything, we can do." Will the Minister clarify the position for me? Is the North-South interconnector project in or out?
The Deputy is correct on one of the options he mentioned; the expert panel will consider the matter concerning the North-South interconnector and come to its view in the next couple of weeks.
As regards the terms of reference of the study which applies to my Department, they are set out on the basis of identifying and examining all relevant peer-reviewed scientific literature, including the study of non-ionising radiation conducted in 2007 by the previous Government. It also includes any work done by the Radiological Protection Institute of Ireland, which is within my Department's area of responsibility. It will be engaging with the process to ensure all of the various national and international standards and the available literature will be reviewed. That will ensure we will have the best possible information available to the expert group.
84. Deputy Catherine Murphy asked the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government the data his Department collects from homeless officers and agencies in each local authority area; if the demographic breakdown of those seeking emergency accommodation due to homelessness has changed to include a greater proportion of couples, couples with children and persons with children; if he has had any consultation with the Department of Social Protection in relation to this trend in advance of the setting up of the new housing assistance payment, HAP, specifically with regard to targeting those who are at risk of homelessness; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5356/14]
This question concerns the changing nature of homelessness. There is a major crisis in some parts of the country, including my constituency. In 2011 I recall seeing one homeless family and one single homeless person. In the past month alone, however, I have seen five homeless families, with children being taken out of school. They are normal families one would never consider as being homeless. I have been contacted by 18 more people who are within weeks of becoming homeless. Kildare County Council tells me some 50 families have sought emergency accommodation so far this year. I am talking about families, not single persons. The council has stated the situation is the worst it has ever seen. The issue is really urgent at this stage.
In February 2013, I published the Government’s homelessness policy statement and at that time I announced a set of indicators to be used to demonstrate the dynamics of homelessness as it is addressed. These indicators will give a clearer picture of homelessness in Ireland and, in quantifying its ongoing extent, will support the bringing forward of realistic and practical solutions. The pathway accommodation and support system, PASS, was extended nationally in 2013 and is now operational nationwide. It will assist housing authorities to report on these indicators and 2014 will be the first year for which PASS will produce composite national data on homelessness. These reports will be published on my Department's website as soon as they are available.
The homelessness oversight group, which I established in 2013 for the purposes of reviewing the progress of the approach advocated in the statement, identifying obstacles and proposing solutions, has submitted its first report to me. The report considered information on the homeless population. I am considering this report and its recommendations and I will consult with my Government colleagues on the implementation of these recommendations, as appropriate. A copy of the report is available on my Department's website. The specific demographic information sought is not available at the moment. What I have said indicates it will be available soon.
On 18 July 2013, the Government approved the introduction of the housing assistance payment, HAP. My Department and the Department of Social Protection continue to work closely on the legal, policy and operational issues involved in developing and introducing HAP including adopting a reasonable approach to implementation, which could prioritise certain groups such as the long-term unemployed or those who are homeless or in danger of homelessness, in the early stages.
I have drawn the attention of the Minister of State to the local authority housing waiting list. Some six local authority areas make up 50% of the waiting list, which accounts for 90,000 individuals or families. The areas are Dublin city, Cork city, south Dublin, Fingal, Kildare and Cork county. At the same time, rents in those areas are some of the highest in the country. The rent assistance being provided is below market rent and, between that and the administrative difficulties in getting rent assistance, if there is a choice a landlord can make about who to take, the people on the waiting list dependent on rent assistance are on a hiding to nothing in an environment where there is a shortage of houses to rent.
I accept the Minister of State is answering the question in respect of methodology but I am not interested in collecting statistics. I am interested in solutions for people who come into my office and offices in the areas where there is a crisis. People must take children out of schools and try to find inadequate accommodation somewhere else. There is a crisis in some parts of the country and an urgent response is needed.
I have listened to the Deputy in respect of the local authority areas with the longest waiting lists and the most urgent problem. I said that in allocating funding, we will put a major focus on those local authorities. We will announce funding in the relatively near future in respect of housing construction and the provision of social housing. Rental caps are the responsibility of the Department of Social Protection but we are working on the introduction of the housing assistance payment. Of the 90,000 people on waiting lists, about half of them are in receipt of rent supplement. We are moving as quickly as possible. My officials had a meeting with the Department of Social Protection officials this morning in respect of homelessness and the implementation of the recommendations of the oversight group. I will bring proposals to Government shortly. It concerns integrating across Departments, including the Department of Social Protection, the Department of Health and the Department of the Environment, Community Local Government.
It is about cross-party co-operation. Does the Minister accept we are talking about a different type of homelessness when we see families with children who are homeless as a consequence of a shortage of accommodation? It has a knock-on effect that will be picked up through the damage done to children because of the crisis in their families. They do not know where they will be in a week or two. Now, a different group is being affected. I have never experienced it in the long time I have been a public representative, mostly at local government level.
This is an entirely different position, and I hope there is acceptance at the Government level that this is an emerging crisis. It has already started in some locations.
Deputy Murphy's question was statistical in nature but I acknowledge that, as far as we know, there has been an increase in the number of families declaring themselves homeless or becoming homeless. It is a cause for serious concern. There is the social investment programme, which is directed at families, and it currently operates as a pilot in the Dublin area. It specifically addresses the needs of families becoming homeless, and it is operating this year. The Deputy is raising a real and genuine issue.
We are supplying housing in whatever way we can and there will be approximately 5,000 new housing units this year across a variety of forms. We will continue to use the resources as well as we can to address the needs out there. I acknowledge that certain local authorities, including Kildare, are particularly challenged with these issues.
85. Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív asked the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government the amount of money that will be provided out of the rural development programme for Leader-type actions for the years 2014 to 2020; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5256/14]
Since the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine announced the rural development programme and the co-funding from the Government, people are anxious to find out the total provision of EU and national money for Leader-type actions for 2015 to 2020. It is technically for 2014 as well but the Minister knows it will be 2015 before we get going.
As the Deputy knows, Ireland has received an allocation from the EU of €2.1 billion for the rural development programme for 2014 to 2020. The EU regulations provide for a 5% minimum allocation for Leader. The Government has decided to increase this to 7% and I welcome this. Therefore, €153 million in EU funding will be available for Leader and this will be co-financed by Exchequer funding.
Ireland is required to submit a draft rural development programme to the European Commission for approval and it is intended that this will be submitted later this year by the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine, which has overall responsibility for the programme. The Leader elements of the programme will primarily address priority six of the Union priorities for rural development: promoting social inclusion, poverty reduction and economic development in rural areas. In this context my Department held a stakeholders’ consultation meeting on the Leader elements of the programme on 30 January and will be holding an open public consultation meeting on Thursday, 6 February in Tullamore. These consultations, along with the report of the commission for the economic development of rural areas, which I will publish shortly, will inform the draft Leader programme to be submitted to the European Commission as part of the rural development programme.
The Exchequer co-financing element is currently subject to discussions between my Department, the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine, and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, and following the conclusion of these discussions, I will announce the overall value of the Leader elements of the programme. Following approval by the Commission, my Department will make an open call for submission of local development strategies with a view to allocations being made in the second half of this year and the new Leader programme commencing in early 2015.
Will the Minister tell me how much co-funding is required under the EU regulations, as there are different co-funding rates? Why has co-funding for this programme not been agreed when co-funding for the agricultural elements has been agreed?
The agricultural elements of the programme are very different from the Leader elements. That programme will commence spending this year with the agri-environment options scheme and support for disadvantaged areas, which I am sure the Deputy welcomes. In our case, spend on the current Leader programme will continue into 2015, and as the Deputy noted, the programme spend is not expected to start until 2015.
Will the Minister answer the other part of the question? What is the minimum required co-funding for Leader actions?
I have already indicated that 5% was the minimum requirement and under the announcement by the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Coveney, 7% is available for funding under the rural development programme. That is €153 million out of the Leader element of the rural development programme. We must negotiate now on a co-funding basis with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform for the remainder.
The Minister is missing the point. The 5% figure is the amount of the total fund that must be spent on Leader-type actions. The Minister mentioned 7%, which equates to €153 million.
What are required are different rates of co-funding by the State and European Union. I am sure this is in the Minister's notes. Bearing in mind what we are told by the Minister's colleague regarding the bulk of the funding required, is it a 53%-47% co-funding regime or a 75%-25% co-funding regime? In other words, there is a minimum amount of State co-funding required in each case. What is the required co-funding in regard to Leader?
The European Commission will co-finance the programme up to 80%. If Ireland avails of this rate, the value of the Leader programme will be €191 million. However, if the Leader elements are co-financed in the same way as other elements of the programme, at a ratio of 54%-46%, that would mean a greater amount of money available to Leader, up to €283 million.
86. Deputy Joe Higgins asked the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government his views on the research paper written by Professor John Fitzgerald and Dr. Edgar Morgenroth for his Department in relation to the establishment of Irish Water; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5339/14]
I am seeking the Minister's views on the research paper written some time ago by two professors of the ESRI. Will he comment on the proposals in the paper and its estimates on water charges and savings in water supply?
Following the decision by the Government in December 2011 to establish Irish Water, on the basis of an independent assessment conducted by PricewaterhouseCoopers, my Department launched a public consultation process to inform development of the implementation strategy on the reform programme. Almost 300 submissions were received, including a submission from the ESRI. All of these were taken into consideration in developing the implementation strategy published in December 2012.
The submission received from the ESRI concluded that the establishment of the new utility is an opportunity to achieve significant efficiency gains, which will result in lower costs to the taxpayer. The submission noted that the independent assessment indicated that staff numbers would decline over time, and commented that the transfer of staff from local authorities and the terms and employment of staff and services should be at the discretion of the new company.
The model adopted allows Irish Water to build up its own internal capability as it considers appropriate, with competitive processes that draw on expertise within the sector for some roles. Irish Water has entered into service level agreements, SLAs, with each of the 34 authorities for the provision of specified services. Staff in local authorities conducting work under these arrangements will remain local authority employees. The SLA reflects the transformation agenda required for the sector, with provision for annual service plans which will set out required performance, budgets and headcount. The actual headcount which will be required over the period of the agreement is intrinsically linked to the levels of investment within the sector in automation, rationalisation and infrastructure and operational upgrades. The establishment of Irish Water will lead to improved efficiency and effectiveness of water services delivery, and progress in this regard, leading to staff reductions, will be closely monitored in the context of annual service plans. It makes far better sense to accelerate and improve investment in, and management of, water services assets through a single efficient model rather than attempting to replicate systems through over 30 separate local authorities.
We are reforming our water services to address significant deficits and weaknesses in the current system. In particular, 18,000 people on public water supplies have a boil-water restriction or other restriction in place; remedial action is required on 16% of supplies at risk, covering almost 1 million people, including large schemes such as those in parts of Dublin and Cork; there are significant supply constraints in Dublin; unaccounted-for water is unacceptably high, at 40%; the European Commission has launched a pilot infringement in regard to 80 treatment plants.
Additional information not given on the floor of the House
A total of over €1 billion in capital and operational expenditure is required per annum for the provision of water services. This level of investment simply cannot be met through the existing model, without significant cuts to other public services - for example, education and health - or significant tax increases. The Irish Water Utility Model will facilitate new investment, and charges determined through the user-pays model, based on metered usage above a free allowance, will reflect the greater efficiencies and reduced operational costs that a single utility can be expected to deliver.
The Minister claims repeatedly that the setting up of Irish Water, Uisce Éireann, will save €2 billion up to 2021. He gives the impression that some kind of magic efficiency is involved. This is the most cynical mendacity. Will he confirm today what Irish Water has confirmed, namely, that the figure of €2 billion will in fact be accounted for by water taxes on households? He has not been honest enough to spell that out.
The ESRI paper estimates that water tax from households could amount to €630 million per annum, or €426 per household, on average.
I ask the Minister what estimate his Department is putting on the water charges when they are introduced. Does the Minister agree that this is a tax for a service that is being paid for by householders at the moment and for which they have paid for many years through income tax, VAT and so forth, and that imposing a new tax is a blatant double taxation and is unjust?
I am not surprised that Deputy Higgins disagrees with the manner in which we are setting up a semi-state company to deliver, efficiently and effectively, a service that is not being delivered effectively and efficiently through 34 local authorities. We are spending €1.2 billion of taxpayer's money - or working people's money, as Deputy Higgins would have it - to deliver this essential facility through 34 local authorities, but 40% of it is going into the ground in the form of unaccounted-for water. In recent years we have invested in replacing some of the pipe network but we are not able to keep up because of the constraints on the public finances due to the reckless policies pursued in the past. There is also a troika agreement to be met. If we want additional moneys for capital investment in our water infrastructure, we must cut back elsewhere. Can Deputy Higgins make any suggestions as to where we can cut back? Can we cut back in housing, health or education in order to deliver this essential service? We have significant constraints on water supplies in Dublin, including in Deputy Higgins's constituency, and the greater Dublin area. We have significant challenges in terms of capital investment. Can the Deputy tell me where we can get the money?
It is a damning indictment of the Fine Gael party, which was in government in the 1990s and again in the last three years, and its predecessors in Fianna Fáil, that 40% of expensively treated water is leaking into the ground. That is because successive governments have failed to invest in our water services or to give adequate funding to the local authorities to fix our water network and make it efficient. How could the local authorities remediate this disgusting and disgraceful waste when they were not given the funding to do so? Furthermore, Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil, when in government, absolutely failed to amend the building regulations to ensure that water-saving devices that would have saved billions of litres of treated water every year were installed in people's homes. Now the Minister has the neck to come in here and say we have to have this water tax for this, that and the other reason. I will tell the Minister how to make savings - stop paying the bondholders billions of euro. The Irish people never incurred that debt; it is not their debt to pay. The Government should stop paying the €9 billion in interest alone and put those funds into our water infrastructure, health and education and transform our society.
What is the Minister's estimate of the water charge per household?
Water charges will be decided by the Government and Irish Water when it makes its submission to the Commission on Energy Regulation. The regulator will ultimately decide on what the level of water charges will be. The Deputy must have patience and he will get-----
The Government is going to start charging for water from October but will not tell people what the water charges will be until after the local elections.
The Minister to reply without interruption.
There was a commitment in the memorandum of understanding that we would introduce a property tax and water charges in 2013. We have the property tax but will not have water charges until 2015. The Deputy needs to get his history correct.
I wish to thank the staff of local authorities who are in difficulty at the moment trying to manage supplies along the coastline of our country. Equally, in the Dublin area, they are managing the water supply on a daily and hourly basis to ensure that the Deputy's constituents have an adequate supply. I thank them for that. We will continue to employ those staff because of their knowledge and corporate memory. They have the necessary expertise built up to ensure that this situation continues. We are going to use Irish Water, a commercial semi-state company in public ownership, to get additional moneys to invest in our water services for the future. The Deputy did not give me an answer as to where we will get the money in a realistic sense. He just went on with the old story about the bondholders.
Billions has been paid that the people never owed. Is it any wonder that the Minister is short?
