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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 20 Feb 2014

Vol. 831 No. 3

Order of Business

It is proposed to take No. 8, motion re the proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Finance Act 2004 (Section 91) (Deferred Surrender to the Central Fund) Order 2014, back from committee; No. 23, Roads Bill 2014 - Second Stage (resumed); and No. 1, Health Identifiers Bill 2013 [Seanad] - Second Stage.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that No. 8 shall be decided without debate. Tomorrow's fortnightly Friday business shall be No. 45, Thirty-fourth Amendment of the Constitution (Judicial Appointments) Bill 2013 - Second Stage; and No. 9, report on organ donation by the Joint Committee on Health and Children.

There is one proposal to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 8 agreed to?

It is not agreed. Given the statement and the announcement by the Taoiseach yesterday stating that the confidential recipient, Mr. Oliver Connolly, has been relieved-----

Hold on a second. This has nothing to do with this motion.

It actually has.

No, it has not.

If the Ceann Comhairle would just let me-----

I beg the Ceann Comhairle's pardon. I am opposing this on the grounds-----

Yes but it is a motion re proposed approval of the Finance Act.

It has nothing to do with the-----

How does the Ceann Comhairle know? Will he let me finish?

Listen Deputy, would you mind respecting the Chair please?

I do respect the Chair. I always respect the Chair.

Yes, well I am telling you to stick to the motion.

May I just say, the Ceann Comhairle is too restrictive?

I am not too restrictive.

I have been in this House for a long time. The Ceann Comhairle needs to respect the Opposition's role as well.

Excuse me Deputy, I respect everyone in this House and I expect you to respect the Chair and to respect the rules of the House.

And I do. I oppose this and I am entitled to make a statement on the opposition to this.

That is fair enough, but stick to the motion.

That is what I was saying but I had not even finished my sentence when I was interrupted.

We are not entering into another debate about the confidential-----

The reason is I find it extraordinary that time has not been made available by the Government for the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, to come into the Chamber today to make a statement on this issue and to answer questions.

But that is an entirely separate issue to the-----

It is an extraordinary situation that the Order of Business-----

Resume your seat please.

----- does not allow for a debate-----

You are making a joke out of the business.

I am not making any joke.

Of course you are.

It is the Order Paper that is making a joke out of it.

Will you resume your seat please?

With the greatest of respect, it is the Order Paper that is making a joke of this. He should be in here today.

I will suspend the sitting unless the Deputy resumes his seat. This is codology.

But he should be in here.

Sit down and resume your seat.

It is the greatest bar. A special notice question was tabled yesterday-----

Are you opposing this motion?

----- and it was not accepted.

I will now put the question.

I have been in this House for a long time-----

Listen, would you mind-----

----- and on matters of this gravity, Ministers always have come in.

(Interruptions).

The House is suspended for ten minutes.

Sitting suspended at 12.42 p.m. and resumed at 12.52 p.m.

A Cheann Comhairle, may I raise a point of order-----

No, you cannot. The Deputy cannot raise a point of order on the resumption of the House. I am putting the question now.

Can we have a reply from the Minister first?

I do not know to what the Minister is being asked to reply.

I reassure Deputy Martin that this is a technical motion in regard to the roll-over of approximately €132 million of capital relating to a number of Departments, which money is already in the Central Fund. This is a purely technical matter which, I am sure, the Deputy will approve of.

Nothing to see, move on.

I am now putting the question.

A Cheann Comhairle, may I raise a point of order now?

On the issue that was discussed earlier.

Sorry, I am in the middle of putting a question to the House.

May I do so when the Ceann Comhairle has disposed of the question?

Would Deputy Flanagan like to correct the record himself?

Deputy Flanagan cannot be jumping up and down in the middle of my putting a question.

I will treat the Ceann Comhairle with the utmost respect. I really need the matter that was discussed earlier-----

Sorry, Deputy. Would you please resume your seat?

They are all getting tetchy.

They are hungry.

They are following Deputies opposite.

Question, "That the proposal for dealing with No. 8 be agreed to", put and declared carried.

On the Order of Business, Deputy Martin.

Will the Minister ensure that the Government makes time available for a debate on the grave issues that have arisen consequent on the confidential recipient, Mr. Oliver Connolly, being relieved of his duties? Some serious issues have been raised in that context and it is appropriate that Members of this House on all sides would have an opportunity to contribute to such a debate and that the Minister would come into the House and answer questions in that regard. This is a basic request in respect of which there is plenty of precedent. I ask that the Government commit to the provision of time for such a debate.

The issue of a debate is a matter for the Whips. I suggest the matter be dealt with at a Whips' meeting.

It is a matter for Government.

The Minister has always been willing to come into the House and to attend any committee of the Houses. In fairness to the Minister, he has attended various committees for lengthy periods. The Minister is currently away on EU business.

He was at a committee meeting all day yesterday.

Not on this issue.

He has not said anything.

He dealt with it in committee yesterday.

The Deputy needs to get up to speed on matters.

Would Deputy Durkan like to take the Chair?

The Deputy is not sorry.

The Minister's response to a call for a debate on this matter in the House is that that is a matter for the Whips. Will the Minister support that debate in the context of it being about a person in a key position in relation to a major scandal having been sacked?

I think we have dealt with that matter.

Will Deputy Burton as Minister and speaking on behalf of the Labour Party support the holding of a debate at the earliest opportunity next week?

When will the National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill relating to the management of State claims agencies and third party legal costs arising from the tribunals, which I assume is being introduced as a result of the many contested costs as a result of the Moriarty tribunal, be published and will there be pre-legislative consultation on it at committee? It is important that the Taoiseach outline to the House whether he accepts the full findings of the Moriarty tribunal. The Taoiseach has never informed the House that he does accept those findings. It is important in the context of informing the debate on that legislation that he do so.

We are aware that Denis O'Brien has lobbied the Taoiseach-----

Sorry, would you please-----

-----and the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, in relation to not accepting the findings. It is important the Taoiseach informs the House of his position and that of the Government on the Moriarty tribunal findings.

As I said earlier, a debate on the matters raised by the Deputy is a matter for the Whips. An esteemed judge has been appointed to carry out an independent inquiry. I am sure Sinn Féin has confidence in the judge. Perhaps Deputy Doherty would like to make clear as would, perhaps, Fianna Fáil and the Independents that they do have confidence in the judge and the Judiciary in this country.

The National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill is not expected before Easter. As the Deputy will be aware as part of the reformed process in relation to legislation debate on all heads of Bills takes place in committee. On the issue of the Moriarty tribunal findings, the Deputy can raise that issue during the debate, as I am sure he will do.

Does the Minister accept the findings?

I have spoken on that issue on many occasions. The Deputy can refer to my record in the House on it.

What is the status of the workplace relations Bill, which was expected a couple of years ago?

(Interruptions).

I understand work on that Bill is well advanced and that it is expected to come before the House later in this term.

First, I apologise for any disrespect I may have cast on the Chair earlier this morning. Also, comments were made earlier this morning-----

Sorry, Deputy we are not dealing with comments now. We are dealing with the Order of Business.

-----that cast aspersions-----

If the Deputy has anything further to say he should do so to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.

The waiting list for social housing is now very lengthy. In this regard and in the context of the Government's commitment to end homelessness by 2016, when will the housing (miscellaneous provisions) (amendment) Bill be introduced? There is an urgent need to have that legislation enacted.

I understand we will come back to that in the second part-----

The second part of what?

Before agreeing to the Order of Business, it is entirely appropriate that we would refer to the matter referred to earlier. I thank you, a Cheann Comhairle, for replying to my correspondence in this matter. You have quite rightly referred the matter for consideration to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. Can a meeting be convened for today?

These remarks will go unwithdrawn-----

It is not possible to call a meeting today.

Are they more important than the other issues we discussed today?

----- in a way that undermines the committee.

The matter has been referred to the committee to be dealt with.

On the same issue-----

On the same issue of the impugning of the reputation of a Member-----

No, we are not dealing with that. It is a matter for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.

Is the Deputy the watchdog?

If the Deputy also wants to make a complaint, he may do so. Because of all the shouting, I did not hear anything.

He is the new terrier of Fine Gael, the Jack Russell of Fine Gael.

Therefore if the Deputy has a complaint I ask him to refer it to the committee.

I will refer it to that committee. In your capacity as Ceann Comhairle, you might afford the Member opposite the opportunity to withdraw the remark now.

I do not know what remark the Deputy is talking about. I am sorry; I did not hear it. That was my problem. I tried to-----

A Cheann Comhairle-----

I ask Deputy Durkan to resume his seat, please.

I thank the Deputy. I call Deputy Mattie McGrath.

I wish to raise a point of order.

We are not making a fool out of this House.

I am sorry, a Cheann Comhairle, I ask you to please listen.

Deputy Durkan was not called.

The Deputy sitting opposite has repeated the remark since the House resumed.

I did not hear the remarks the Deputy is talking about.

I heard the remarks.

I ask the Deputy to resume his seat.

Those remarks are undermining-----

I will need to suspend the House again if the Deputy does not sit down. I am not putting up with this.

A Cheann Comhairle-----

Will you sit down?

A Cheann Comhairle, you are not being fair to the House.

Will you resume your seat? I told you the matter will be dealt with in the proper fashion.

I wish to have that matter addressed now.

(Interruptions).

I refer to the geothermal Bill. A situation in Tipperary has arisen on payment of charges.

The geothermal Bill.

Under the Animal Health and Welfare Act 2013 it has come to my notice that despite requests by many Deputies over the years to have slurry spreading dates changed to non-calendar months-----

This is the Order of Business.

------ it has never been brought to Europe by Government.

What Bill is the Deputy discussing?

I am talking about the animal welfare Bill because animals are affected by this.

(Interruptions).

Talk to the Jack Russell of Fine Gael.

If we all stay quiet Deputy Mattie McGrath's colleague might repeat his remarks.

I am delighted that Deputy Mattie McGrath is so concerned about the animals. At least someone in the House is concerned about some living creatures. That seemed to be absent from the debate earlier.

Can the Minister please get on with it?

(Interruptions).

I ask the Deputy to sit down.

I understand the geothermal Bill will be later in the year. The Deputy referred to animal welfare legislation; the Animal Health and Welfare Act 2013 was enacted last May.

Tá a fhios agam.

The HEA is totally at odds with the agency's stated aims regarding enhancing the skills and competence of individual enterprises. We need to develop Ireland as a competitive knowledge-based economy.

While that is all very interesting, about what Bill is the Deputy talking?

The Minister, Deputy Quinn-----

This is getting worse.

When will we have the Higher Education Authority Bill before us?

Ballymagash has nothing on it.

You are out of order completely today, a Cheann Comhairle.

What Bill is the Deputy talking about?

You are losing your cool. Keep your hair on.

(Interruptions).

What Bill is the Deputy talking about?

I inquired about the Higher Education Authority Bill.

That is grand.

We need hearing aids for many people in this House.

Should have gone to Specsavers.

(Interruptions).

I understand the heads of the HEA Bill have been drafted and it should be before the Dáil next year.

To assuage the fears of some Members of the Opposition, it might be helpful to bring in the criminal justice corruption Bill to consolidate and reform all the legislation currently cited as the Prevention of Corruption Acts 1889 to 2010. That should cover the period in question to which the Opposition has been referring. Have the heads of that Bill been approved in Cabinet? When will it be brought before the House?

I also ask about the legislation to provide for the exchange of criminal records information with other EU member states and other designated states. It is the criminal records information systems Bill, which should be very interesting. I am sure all Members of the Opposition will take particular interest in that.

Why is Deputy Durkan interested?

In order to assuage the fears and worries of the Opposition, is it intended to bring that Bill to the House as a matter of urgency?

The heads of the criminal justice corruption Bill were dealt with in July 2012. The pre-legislative committee meetings will take place, but we do not have a date as yet.

I understand that the second Bill should come in April.

When will we see the trusts Bill, to reform and consolidate the law relating to trustees so as to deal better with and protect trust assets?

There is no date for that legislation.

The Mahon report recommended the establishment of a planning regulator to be charged with carrying out investigations into the planning process where required. This office was approved by Cabinet last year. When will the legislation be published?

There is a planning Bill proposed, which will deal partly with the implementation of the recommendations from the Mahon report. I do not have a date for that.

When is the family law Bill, to make provision for pension adjustments in the context of separation agreements and certain other reforms in family law, expected to be published?

I understand that will happen next year.

Regarding the health transport Bill, work is under way in the Department of Health to replace the motorised transport scheme and the mobility allowance scheme which was suspended late year. When is that Bill expected to be published?

I understand that will happen later in the year.

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