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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 10 Apr 2014

Vol. 837 No. 3

Topical Issue Debate

Suicide Incidence

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for giving me the opportunity to refer to the recent report by the European Child Safety Alliance on national action to address the issue of child intentional injury. The report shows that Ireland has the highest rate of suicide among young females under 20 years of age, 2.5 times the European average, and the second highest rate of youth suicide among males, 5.12 per 100,000, compared to the European average of 2.39. Lithuania is the only country ahead of us when it comes to male youth suicide. These are unacceptable levels and urgently need to be addressed. These findings also confirm the findings of research conducted by the World Health Organization on the issue of youth suicide in Ireland.

Research shows that the reasons children and young people die by suicide are complex, often involving an interconnection of different factors and events. Difficulties in relationships either with a partner or a family member are a commonly cited reason for youth suicide. Parental conflict and rigid family systems can be factors influencing suicide behaviour.

Events that have an impact on a young person’s identity, autonomy and independence can also play a part, with depression, hopelessness and a history of sexual abuse. These factors are present more in young people who make more serious suicide attempts. Substance misuse, aggression, risky sexual behaviour and health problems have been found to be related to suicidality. A negative perception of body image and a lack of attention to their own physical needs are seen as risks for suicidal behaviour in some young people.

Research also found that knowing someone who had attempted suicide, having symptoms of depression, alcohol misuse, violence and lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender relationships were associated with an increased risk of suicide. A number of studies have looked at factors that make people more vulnerable to repeating a suicide attempt. These include low self-esteem, early puberty, relationship difficulties, being physically impaired owing to illness or injury or substance or alcohol misuse, hopelessness, a previous suicide attempt or a recent suicide attempt by a friend.

Studies of suicides of homeless young people found that they had reported feeling trapped by their experiences. Factors that had made them vulnerable to suicide were drug use, experiencing familial abuse as a child, low self-esteem and feeling lonely.

Family functioning is more important than family structure. The way a family functions in particular relationships with parents can both be a protective and a vulnerability factor.

The effect of the media is often open to question, with some studies reporting that young people and adults were less likely to have copycat effects, but it is thought that reports of suicide among teenagers may be an influence in imitative behaviour.

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue for discussion. I am taking it on behalf of my colleague, the Minister for Health, Deputy James Reilly.

I welcome the national action to address child intentional injury 2014 report of the European Child Safety Alliance, published in late March. The report which examines the policy measures in place to address intentional injury to children in over 25 member states is being considered in the Department of Health. In Ireland the Government’s policy on deliberate self-harm and suicide prevention is guided by the national strategy, Reach Out, which makes several recommendations to fast-track referrals to community-based mental health services, an effective response to deliberate self-harm, training, reducing stigma, promoting positive mental health and research. Reach Out recognises the youth sector as a high risk group and sets out several specific actions. Dealing with the current high levels of suicide and deliberate self-harm is a priority for the Government.

The Health Service Executive's National Office for Suicide Prevention has primary responsibility for the implementation of Reach Out. Consequently, the office has developed a range of initiatives aimed specifically at supporting young people who are suicidal, as well as supporting their peers in recognising and responding appropriately to signs of emotional distress and suicidal thoughts.

A wide range of awareness and training programmes are available in the area of mental health promotion and suicide prevention. Several media awareness campaigns focused specifically on young people have been run in recent years and guidelines for mental health promotion and suicide prevention in post-primary schools have also been developed. Since 2012 the Government provided €90 million and 1,100 additional posts primarily to develop community mental health teams and suicide prevention resources. Some 230 of these posts were allocated to child and adolescent mental health services, CAMHS, teams and all posts are targeted to be in place by end of June 2014. Young people, children and their families have access to a range of mental health services within CAMHS teams. In addition, 37 new clinical nurse specialist posts have been created to provide additional clinical support for persons presenting with self-harm in emergency departments.

In 2014 the Department of Health and the Health Service Executive have committed to developing a new strategic framework for suicide prevention, building on the comprehensive work delivered under the current Reach Out strategy. The framework will present the key priorities to be addressed from 2015 to 2018. The aim of the new strategy will be to support population health approaches and interventions that will assist in reducing the loss of life through suicide. The new framework, expected to be published in late 2014, will build on and learn from the experience of implementing Reach Out which continues to be relevant.

The recommendations made in the national action to address child intentional injury 2014 report will also be considered in the context of the development of the new framework. The findings of the report give cause ofr concern and will be considered by a research advisory group recently established as part of the development of the new framework for suicide prevention.

The new framework being developed by the National Office for Suicide Prevention should provide for a specific examination of youth suicide among both males and females. It is important to note that funding for the office has doubled from €4 million to €8 million.

I understand the Government is allocating an extra €1 million this year. However, the service is still under-resourced and needs further investment to allow it to have a greater impact on the whole area of suicide, including on research, prevention and postvention.

I accept that increases in resources must be made on a phased basis to allow development to take place in an orderly fashion. However, it should be borne in mind that comparisons are often made between resources provided to the National Roads Authority, at over €30 million, and those provided to the National Office for Suicide Prevention, approximately €9 million now. Some 600 people die by suicide each year, while fewer than 200 - although it is too many - die as a result of road accidents. I support ongoing and further support to the Road Safety Authority to continue its excellent work. Its great success should be a template for suicide reduction, although we know that suicide prevention is totally different. There is little similarity between preventing accidents and preventing suicide, which is a highly complex area in the context of what brings people to take their lives and the consequences of the tragedy for the bereaved. The factors surrounding suicide are very different. The expertise exists nationally and internationally and is available to us to impart through any programmes the National Office for Suicide Prevention develops in all areas. I urge the Government to continue to develop the office by ensuring that the resources required are made available.

I am conscious of the important work Deputy Neville and others have been doing over the years in regard to this important issue. I assure him that the recently published report from the European Child Safety Alliance, National Action to Address Child Intentional Injury, is another opportunity for us to focus on the measures the Government is taking and how it can do more to ensure all of these issues in regard to young people are better understood. Also, the research office looking at the reports by the Department of Health will provide an additional opportunity to continue the good work necessary to understand the complex reasons people, particularly young people, engage in unfortunate practices such as self-harm. This work will continue to be funded and supported by the Government.

Local Government Fund

Cuirim fáilte roimh an deis labhartha ar an ábhar seo sa Teach inniu. I thank the Minister for coming to the House to deal with this issue.

This concerns an issue that has been ongoing for some time. Currently, Cork motorists are subsidising road repairs in other counties throughout Ireland, while our own crumbling network is in crisis because of the depletion of resources for all local authorities and increasing challenges in maintaining the road network. In 2012, some €130 million was collected in road tax in County Cork, between the city and county councils. The moneys collected in road tax are sent straight to the Department every evening at 5 p.m. In return, general purpose grants come from the Department to each of the local authorities. In 2013, my calculation is that a sum total of €53.9 million was returned to Cork through general purpose grants, which was 8.4% of the total. This amount was then shared among Cork County Council, Cork City Council and the nine town councils. They got 8.4% of the general purpose grants, versus the 12.25% they contribute through road tax.

County Cork cannot afford this. We have the largest road network in the country and cannot afford to be subsidising motorists using roads in other counties. It is very different for a county such as Dublin, which has a massive population but a very small road network. It can certainly afford to spread some of the spoils, but we cannot. I plead with the Minister to take up this issue. I thank him for coming into the House to hear me make this plea. I call on the Department to look again at the allocation of the moneys collected and to arrange that moneys collected in County Cork from road tax be sent back to County Cork for the maintenance of roads. The local authorities are failing in the battle to maintain the roads and motorists' frustration has increased year by year. It is at tipping point now and it is high time we made a serious effort to address the issue. We have 10,320 km of local county roads in County Cork.

I support the argument that more money is not always the solution to these problems. The problem must also be addressed by the local authority in the context of choosing what to do with the moneys provided by the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government and the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport, which gave €330 million to local authorities this year to carry out work on road networks. The local authorities still refuse to deal with the issue of water on the roads, but they must address the issue of drainage by whatever means are necessary, even if this means they must bring in private contractors. I have been in contact with the Minister and the Secretary General of the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport and I hope that they and the Minister here will send some instruction to local authorities to ensure a qualifying clause is included with any future allocations of moneys insisting that drainage works are carried out on roads. The waste of money currently is appalling.

I would appreciate it if the Minister would address the main issue I raise today, namely the unfairness to Cork motorists of having to subsidise motorists in other counties at a time when the largest road network in the country, that of County Cork, at 10,320 km, is crumbling.

I thank the Deputy for giving me the opportunity to outline for the House today the importance of motor tax revenue in supporting local government in general and particularly in providing funding in respect of the local and regional road network.

The estimated income to the local government fund in 2014, as set out in the Revised Estimates for Public Services 2014, published by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, is €1.71 billion. This includes motor tax receipts of €1.16 billion, which will contribute over two-thirds of the fund's estimated income in 2014. The balance of the fund's income will be made up by local property tax received in 2014 and interest earned from local government fund moneys invested with the National Treasury Management Agency.

A number of factors have an impact on the level of motor tax revenue collected each year. The Non-Use of Motor Vehicles Act 2013, which came into effect on 1 July 2013, introduced new arrangements which only allow for prospective off-road declarations by vehicle owners; these have been fully in force since 1 October 2013. The primary purpose of this legislation is to provide for a system of declaring vehicles off the road in advance for motor tax purposes. This closed a loophole whereby owners could declare retrospectively that a vehicle had not been in use on the public road, which was unverifiable.

Other factors that determine the level of motor tax revenue include the increase in rates announced in the December 2012 budget and the year-on-year reduction in income arising from the private vehicle fleet due to the switch-over from motor tax based on engine capacity to that based on CO2 emissions, given that vehicles taxed under the latter regime carry a lower average annual tax rate. Motor tax income in 2013 was €1.13 billion, compared to an estimated expected level of income of €1.16 billion in 2014. I will consider, in conjunction with the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, measures to evaluate the effectiveness of the new provisions for off-road declarations in due course.

In respect of expenditure from the local government fund, an amount of €363.9 million has been allocated to the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport from the fund for 2014 for roads and public transport infrastructure. With effect from 1 January 2008, responsibility for regional and local roads was transferred to that Department and it now has responsibility for the allocation of regional and local road grants to local authorities. A further €12.5 million is allocated from the fund to the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport for management of the national vehicle and driver file.

The local government fund provides general purpose grants to local authorities to support their general operational activities. It is estimated that €281 million will be provided in 2014. I also expect that the fund will provide up to €486.5 million to Irish Water in 2014. This amount will fund the water-related expenditures incurred heretofore by local authorities and met by them from their own resources and general purpose grants.

The total estimated expenditure from the local government fund in 2014 also includes a payment of €600 million to the Central Fund and a further €35 million for other local authority projects including shared services.

Local authorities have statutory responsibility for regional and local roads with funding being substantially met from grant programmes administered by the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport. However, current overall funding requirements are met from both grants and local authorities' resources. It is a matter for each local authority to determine its spending priorities in the context of its annual budgetary process having regard to both locally identified needs and available resources. The elected members of a local authority have direct responsibility in law for all reserved functions of the authority, including adopting the annual budget, and are democratically accountable for all expenditure by the local authority. Councillors, by reserve function, adopt their annual budgets based on what they see as their local priorities.

The Government continues to be committed to maximising the funding available to local authorities from the local government fund to support the provision of local services to our communities, including the maintenance of the regional and local roads network. The National Roads Authority's primary function is to secure the provision of a safe and efficient network of national roads. I take on board Deputy Jim Daly's message that when people see the money from their area going into the Central Fund the large counties are often expected, in the interest of the common good, to take up some of the financial obligation of small local authorities or areas with small populations. The same argument could be made about the local property tax. That was always the case and it is a difficult matter for the counties involved. It is for Cork County Council to prioritise local roads, the drainage works required to alleviate the storm damage of recent months and the programmes that are available in addition to the allocations to Cork County Council, and ensure personnel are on the roads dealing with the particular drainage problems he identified.

I thank the Minister for his response. There is a saying, "If one always does what one has always done, one always gets what one has always got". We cannot kick the can any further down the road. I have been raising this and other issues regarding roads for three years since I entered this House in March 2011. I have constantly been pushed from Billy to Jack, from Department to Department or local authority. It is time we had a fresh look at how we deal with our roads. There are two fundamental issues. One is the unfairness of the amount of money collected in County Cork. The Minister referred to the larger counties supplementing the smaller ones. That does not wash because the larger counties have larger road networks. Areas with a critical mass of population should subvent more rural areas, and in County Cork we struggle with many areas that are sparsely populated. The size of the county does not mean we can afford to give more money to other counties. I hope the Minister will take that point on board.

We contributed 12.25% of the motor tax and received only 8.4% back in the general purpose grants. The Department has a responsibility when it allocates hundreds of millions of euro to do more than just say it is up to the council to ensure we get value for money. Given that the country is at crisis point financially, Departments must step up to the mark, take responsibility and ensure value for the money they allocate is delivered to the taxpayer. The Department owes that to the taxpayer. As a representative I have a responsibility to the taxpayer to ensure accountability comes from the top down and that the Government is not fudging, kicking the can down the road or passing it from Department to Department and to the local authority.

I plead with the Minister, with his Department and Secretary General, to take a step back from this and examine the two principal issues I raised, namely, the unfairness of the amount of road tax collected in County Cork and the wastage of money. The local authorities are throwing tar into pot holes and repairing roads year on year at enormous cost and spending up to 65% of the money allocated by the Departments on wages. That is not value for money and does not make sense. Somebody somewhere must stand up and be counted for this and ensure the taxpayer gets the value for money they rightly deserve.

I am surprised the Deputy did not mention the major changes we made in the Local Government Act, which will put a considerable focus on locally elected members and ensure they will have to stand up and be counted and take responsibility for all the budgets they adopt. When local authorities receive block grants from the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport it is a matter for them to see how much money they have at local level to match that and prioritise the important programmes. The Department of Social Protection operates many schemes which could provide a much needed human resource element to this debate. Cork County Council has a considerable number of opportunities and measures available that, perhaps, it is not taking, particularly in the human resource area through programmes such as Gateway and community employment schemes. We could do much more regarding the environment, local roads and dealing with the ongoing drainage issues if we had a little more joined-up thinking by all local authorities on these matters.

"Devolution" is the word I am very anxious to ensure we follow. After the local elections on 23 May it will be up to the councillors elected to Cork County Council to represent the needs of their constituents and ensure they prioritise roads. I will establish a national oversight audit commission to ensure best practice is implemented and to drill down, in specific terms, into the waste of money about which the Deputy spoke in general terms, and ensure it is not the order of the day. I remind the Deputy that there has been a reduction of 25% in the number of people employed by all local authorities and they are expected to do more with less. Such are the difficulties in which we have found ourselves over the last couple of years regarding making ends meet. The Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport will have allocated €517 million on roads through local authorities between the NRA and his Department. It is up to everybody at local level to ensure, operationally, that they get good value for money.

Planning Issues

I am very glad of this opportunity to bring this matter into the Chamber and address some of the grievances experienced by the communities and residents who live near Croke Park, particularly those who live within the cordon area. I am delighted the Minister is here because these issues touch on each aspect of his role, relating to the environment, local government and community. I distinguish between Croke Park, which is a corporate, profit-making entity, and the GAA. I totally support the great work the GAA does throughout the country, particularly with young people. However, over some time there have been very fractious relationships between the communities and Croke Park.

There are three types of issues. First, there are long-standing issues regarding events in Croke Park. They relate to access for people to and from their homes on match days, residents' fears as to whether there is an adequate evacuation plan in the event of an emergency, litter and anti-social behaviour. Second, Croke Park is suing members of the handball and community centre. As that is a legal matter, I will park it. Third, there is an issue with the concerts. I accept the business aspect of this and that small businesses such as hotels, bars and restaurants are delighted with an influx of 400,000 Garth Brooks fans who will descend on the area. However, there are major issues for the residents.

Some time ago an agreement was made between Croke Park and the residents committing to three concerts. I saw the agreement. Three concerts were arranged for May this year for a group called One Direction. Those concerts will interfere with the local and European elections. One of the polling stations is close to Croke Park, so people will be discommoded. As well as those three concerts, an American football match has been planned and residents have learned that there will be five concerts by Garth Brooks. Nobody objects to the fact that it is Garth Brooks, but to the fact that there are five concerts one after the other. The residents heard about it through the media. First there were to be two concerts, then three, four and five. A sixth concert could have been scheduled but for the outcry by people about this.

As well as the five concerts in a row, the set up and tear down of the equipment will take several days. It is ironic that people from Croke Park are coming on the radio and television saying they want to be good neighbours with the residents, and this is how they show it. There is no meaningful consultation with the residents and they had to find out about the concerts from radio and television. There are issues relating to the environment, community and local government.

There is also the issue of the licence, although I know this is a local government matter. Under what sort of system are tickets sold for a concert before a licence is granted, as it does not seem to make sense? This is not sour grapes on the part of people who live there and we should put ourselves in their position. Some people bought their houses in the area when Croke Park had a capacity of 45,000 or 50,000. They are now living beside a stadium with a capacity of 83,000 and although it is magnificent, it is a venue for concerts and other events. One must come to the conclusion that this is pure profit making and greed on behalf of the corporate entity of Croke Park.

I thank the Deputy for raising this matter which is the subject of much media attention. As she may be aware, An Bord Pleanála granted planning permission for the redevelopment of Croke Park stadium on 9 March 1993. Condition No. 11 attached to the planning permission allows for the holding of three special events such as concerts in the stadium each calendar year, subject to the approval of an event management plan which must be submitted by way of compliance submission to the planning department of Dublin City Council. Any additional event proposed to be held in Croke Park in excess of the three events permitted per calendar year must be approved by way of a public event licence application to Dublin City Council under the provisions of section 230 of the Planning and Development Act 2000, as amended. Any application under these provisions which can be for one or more events must be submitted at least ten weeks prior to the date of the first event.

The pop group One Direction is holding three concerts in Croke Park on successive days between 23 and 25 May and it is my understanding these concerts are taking place under the terms of condition No. 11 attached to the 1993 planning permission granted by An Bord Pleanála. It is also my understanding approval of the event management plan for these concerts will be issued by Dublin City Council next week. The five concerts to be undertaken by Garth Brooks on successive dates at the end of July are required to be separately approved by means of obtaining a public event licence under the terms of section 230 of the Planning and Development Act. In this regard, Dublin City Council has not received an application for a public event licence for these concerts to date. However, as I have indicated, event organisers have until ten weeks prior to the date of the first concert to submit an application for a public event licence.

Under the public event licensing provisions contained in section 230 of the Planning and Development Act 2000, any third party can make observations on the application within five weeks of the date of lodgement of the public event licence application with the relevant authority. With regard to the proposed five Garth Brooks concerts at the end of July, it will be a matter for Dublin City Council to assess the application for the public event licence when it is received, taking account of third party observations. It will, of course, be open to residents in the vicinity of the Croke Park stadium to submit written observations to Dublin City Council during the period open for the submission of such observations.

I thank the Minister for the answer and have absolutely no doubt many of the residents will make submissions. The point is that the problem could have been pre-empted if a different system had been in place under which a licence would be applied for first and conditions could be attached. There could also be better relations between the parties running Croke Park stadium and residents. Those running Croke Park stadium could take on board the genuine grievances and issues of residents. Those running Croke Park stadium are in receipt of considerable Government funding and surely there is a way by which they could be answerable to the Government on the matter. Is the Minister stating there is absolutely no role for him in this matter? Nobody wants to see what is happening. I recently attended a community meeting at which much anger was expressed because this is another stage in the difficult relationship between the people running Croke Park stadium and residents. It would be good to have another move towards bringing about a resolution. This will require more pressure and another intervention in order that those running Croke Park stadium will participate in taking a common-sense approach and take on board what is happening in the surrounding area.

I hope the Deputy knows that, according to planning legislation, I am the only person in the House who cannot intervene in the planning process. We would like to help if we could, but, legally, I am precluded from doing so. Politically, Deputies in this House have got into a fair amount of trouble during the years for intervening in planning matters which did not get us anywhere. I understand the sentiments being expressed by the Deputy on behalf of her constituents. I have, however, outlined the process which must take its course. There is a fairly rigorous application procedure laid down under law in respect of licences that must be granted to allow the concerts to proceed. I advise those involved to go through these processes. This is primarily a matter for the planning department of Dublin City Council, to which written submissions can be sent. The case outlined by the Deputy on behalf of her constituents can be made as robustly as possible.

Naval Service Vessels

I am grateful to the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this matter for discussion and perhaps it is fortuitous that the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government is here to take it as he has some responsibility in dealing with the matter of asbestos. We are grateful to Mr. Seán O'Riordan and the Irish Examiner for today reporting that asbestos was discovered on two Naval Service ships, the LE Orla and the LE Ciara. If we are grateful to him, we are enormously surprised to discover that approximately 18 personnel, nine from the Naval Service and perhaps as many civilians, were assigned to carry out work aboard the LE Ciara which involved removing asbestos from the sub-funnel area. The activity involved cutting, breaking and transporting the asbestos from on board ship while a number of civilian workers were in the vicinity. I understand no risk assessment was carried out before the work commenced and no advice was obtained from the Health and Safety Authority or consultants specialising in asbestos removal.

In 1999 and 2000 the Department of Defence commissioned consultants to examine naval equipment and instalments, as well as other departmental facilities. Asbestos was identified on the LE Deirdre, the LE Emer, the LE Aoife and the LE Aisling and at the time the offending material was appropriately removed. A clean air certificate was given thereafter given in respect of all other facilities. I understand the plans for these ships, the LE Ciara and the LE Orla, show specifically that asbestos was in place.

A number of questions arise. Why were the naval authorities not aware asbestos was present and why were the consultants used in 2000 able to provide a clean air certificate in respect of these two ships? What will be done by the Department of Defence and the naval authorities to provide for ongoing health screening for those exposed to asbestos? We know about the enormous dangers that arise from exposure to asbestos; whatever about the material in a dormant form, transporting it having been broken and exposed to the air puts people at risk. It can manifest initially in pleural plaques in human lungs and be expressed at a later point in the development of asbestosis in its worst form. Heaven prevent this from happening to anyone affected by this issue.

We are seeking an assurance from the Minister for Defence that there will be proper health screening of all those affected and their families who may also have been exposed to the material. Given that it can take a long time for asbestos infection to manifest, we also seek a commitment to provide for ongoing screening of those who have been exposed to this material.

At the outset I would like to assure the House that the safety and well-being of the individuals involved in this incident are the primary concern of my colleague, the Minister for Defence, who has responsibility for the Naval Service. I am advised by the Naval Service that it is following all Health and Safety Authority, HSA, guidelines while dealing with the current situation.

While LE Orla was in dry dock at Cork dockyard, work was being carried out in the engine room spaces. During the removal of a gasket head, Cork Dockyard Ltd., CDL, identified material which it suspected as being asbestos. CDL informed the Naval Service. The Naval Service advised that all work should cease and that the material be analysed. CDL got an outside contractor in to get the material analysed. The outside contractor confirmed that the material was asbestos, a particular type of white asbestos. CDL has since sealed the area and is awaiting a surveyor's report. Once it receives the report it will get the asbestos removed and disposed of in accordance with the guidelines and procedures set by the HSA and the Environmental Protection Agency, EPA.

LE Ciara, a sister ship of the LE Orla, had had similar work completed while alongside in the naval dockyard. Following notification from CDL of the discovery of suspect material on LE Orla, the Naval Service immediately suspended work on LE Ciara. The Naval Service has called in external expertise to carry out a full survey and analysis of the ship.

The areas of concern on both ships are currently under quarantine until the analysis and remedial work is completed. No personnel are allowed entry into the engine room spaces and suspected contaminated areas. The Naval Service contacted the HSA and the EPA. The HSA has launched its own investigation into the incident and this is ongoing. A company has been contracted independently by the HSA to analyse the material on board LE Ciara.

Since the discovery of asbestos, air sampling and monitoring has been conducted by an external contractor on both ships and the samples taken were found to be safe. All staff on board LE Ciara and at the dockyard have been briefed on the situation to date. Health surveillance has been offered to all the relevant personnel.

No asbestos risk assessment or asbestos management plan was put in place prior to this work commencing on board either ship because a survey carried out by an external surveyor on LE Orla in 2000 stated that there was no asbestos on board the vessel. While all types of asbestos share similar hazards, they have varying degrees of risk. The risk from white asbestos is at the lower end of the scale. Moreover, the length of exposure is also a key factor, and generally, a once-off short-term exposure is unlikely to be of concern.

Medical assessments are ongoing with the naval medical officer for those who were working in the areas at the time and the situation is being monitored on an ongoing basis. To date, there have been no reports of adverse health effects. Should anyone have concerns or show symptoms, they are being advised to highlight this immediately to Defence Forces medical staff.

I am advised by the Naval Service that a full audit of all ships in the fleet will be completed shortly. While the two vessels have been withdrawn from service, this was part of a scheduled maintenance plan for the vessels. As a result, the current quarantine of these vessels will not affect the overall operational plans of the Naval Service.

I thank the Minister for his response. We need assurances that something will be done in respect of the firm of consultants that gave an undertaking that LE Ciara and LE Orla were asbestos-free. One cannot engage and pay consultants substantial fees only to find that their advice is fundamentally wrong. There is also an issue in respect of the Naval Service. I am informed - I will be corrected if I am wrong - that the plans for the ships show quite clearly that asbestos was present in the locations where it was found.

The Minister stated that there are no health implications at present and that there are no obvious symptoms. There would not be. Short-term exposure to asbestos when the material is dormant is not likely to cause problems. The problem here is that the material was disturbed and broken and presumably dust was released, which may have been inhaled. Risks arise when the material is so disturbed. I am concerned, and I believe the Permanent Defence Force Other Ranks Representative Association, PDFORRA, has expressed its concern to the Department of Defence and the Minister. The very least we expect now is that all the personnel who have been needlessly exposed to this risk due to the incompetence of the consultants engaged to deal with this and to a level of incompetence on the part of the Naval Service and the Department of Defence, will be assured of ongoing health surveillance to ensure that no problems arise down the line.

The Deputy is a bit harsh on the Naval Service. When these matters were discovered something was done about them. Work stopped on the ships and immediately the proper procedures were followed. It is a bit early to come to conclusions on what an external contractor found or did not find arising from the work done. Assumptions were made that may not have been correct at the time when work was being done on one ship that the same applied to the other ship, where it was done to the same specification. The logic was taken on board and it was assumed that the certificate on asbestos could apply equally to both vessels and therefore the same status applied.

My initial answer to Deputy Ó Fearghaíl stated that the EPA, the HSA and the medical staff of the Defence Forces are doing everything they possibly could to ensure the safety and health of the individuals concerned, and to monitor the potential health risks associated with this exposure, notwithstanding that white asbestos is at the low end of the danger range for asbestos. The matters are being taken seriously. I thank the Deputy for raising them and I will certainly convey his views to the Minister for Defence.

The Dáil adjourned at 2.35 p.m. until 10 a.m. on Friday, 11 April 2014.
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