Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014

Vol. 838 No. 2

Topical Issue Debate

Student Grant Scheme Eligibility

Deputy Anthony Lawlor

I thank the Ceann Comhairle's office for giving me the chance to raise this issue. Student Universal Support Ireland, SUSI, has been working well in this, its second year. There have not been too many problems. However, nationality and immigration status pose an anomaly in terms of selecting people for grants. The case I am highlighting arose in 2012 and involves a child who is not an Irish citizen, but one of whose parents is, and who cannot get a grant. Were the child dependent on a parent whose civil partner was an Irish citizen, the child could get a grant. In fairness, when we highlighted this anomaly to the Minister, we were told that it would be reviewed, which it was.

It was put on the Citizens Information Board website and on the studentfinance.ie website page. It stated that students must have permission to remain because they are the dependent child of a naturalised Irish citizen. It was taken down from the website but the child was still unable to get the SUSI grant.

I hope the Minister will examine this. We have been trying to deal with this matter over the past two years. We hope all dependent children of Irish citizens would be allowed to get the SUSI grant as we are trying to encourage as many people as possible to avail of third level education. These people have become Irish citizens, but the result is that their dependent children cannot get a SUSI grant. Perhaps the Minister will consider that.

Deputy Joe McHugh

Deputy Lawlor has mentioned a historical case. There is a specific anomaly here. The Minister for Education and Skills will have details about a specific case, where the mother has recently been naturalised and is an Irish citizen but the circumstances of her dependent daughter have changed suddenly as a result. Prior to her naturalisation, her daughter, as a dependant, was entitled to a SUSI grant, but as a consequence of the mother being naturalised in the second year of the daughter's bachelor of commerce degree in Galway, the daughter is not entitled to the grant. There is a distinct anomaly in that situation. It will probably require legislation.

The personnel in SUSI with whom I have been dealing on this case and a range of other cases have given us the space and time to deliberate on how we can move this matter forward or work around it. I reiterate what Deputy Lawlor has said. In the second year of the operation of SUSI it must be said that the staff in SUSI have been more than courteous and very professional. It is important to record our appreciation for their work and endeavours. They were subject to sharp criticism in the first year, much of it unwarranted. Obviously there were delays because it was the first time a centralised model took over from the vocational education committees, VECs, and the local authorities. There were teething problems, but the invaluable work so many personnel in SUSI are doing must be acknowledged and put on the record.

This matter is outside the Minister of State's remit but I am aware of his long-term interest in the education system and his championing in the past of equal rights and equal treatment for all citizens. There is a distinct anomaly in this case. A dependant who is over 18 years of age and who was entitled to a grant in the first year of a bachelor of commerce degree is not entitled to the grant in the second year as a consequence of her mother being naturalised. That is wrong and must be addressed. Whatever legislation is required must be introduced.

Minister of State at the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Deputy Brian Hayes)

I thank the Deputies for raising this important issue. I also thank them for their kind remarks concerning the staff who operate SUSI. I apologise that the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Ruairí Quinn, is unable to reply on this issue in the House today.

Under the terms of the student grant scheme, grant assistance is awarded to students who meet the prescribed conditions of funding, including those which relate to nationality, residency, previous academic attainment and means. The nationality requirements for the student grant scheme are set out in section 14 of the Student Support Act 2011 and regulation 5 of the Student Support Regulations 2012. The nationality rules require that the student be an Irish, EU, EEA or Swiss national. There are a number of exceptions to this requirement. A person who holds refugee status or the rights and privileges as specified in section 3 of the Refugee Act 1996 or holds subsidiary protection pursuant to the European Communities (Eligibility for Protection) Regulations 2006 meets the nationality requirement.

In addition, a person who holds a prescribed immigration status as provided for in the Student Support Regulations 2013 may also meet the nationality requirement. These include permission to remain as the family member of an EU, EEA or Swiss citizen under the European Communities (Free Movement of Persons) Regulations 2006 and 2008, under the EU directive on EU treaty rights provisions, and on the basis of marriage to or civil partnership with an Irish national resident in the State or as the dependent child of such person. A person who has humanitarian leave to remain granted before the Immigration Act 1999 came into effect or permission to remain in Ireland following a decision not to deport a person under section 3 of the Immigration Act 1999 also meets the nationality requirements.

In all cases, to qualify for a student grant, it is the grant applicant and not his or her parents who must meet the nationality or prescribed immigration status requirements in his or her own right. In some instances, for example, where the student entered the country as a minor, their leave to remain is linked to that of their parents. Where it is established that a student meets the nationality requirement based on such leave to remain, a grant may be awarded. Where the parents are subsequently naturalised during the student's course, the student would continue to meet the nationality or prescribed immigration status requirements as their status is linked back to the parent's permission to remain in the State prior to naturalisation.

If there are particular cases the Deputies wish to raise, perhaps they would forward them to the Minister for Education and Skills, who can examine them and raise them with SUSI.

Deputy Anthony Lawlor

The Minister of State's response is still not clear with regard to the cases we have raised. What the Minister of State says does not appear to be operated by SUSI. There are still students who should be entitled to grants on the basis of what the Minister of State said, but they are not getting them. That category should be made quite clear on the student grants scheme website. It should be clarified with regard to the nationality and immigration status of students that they would be entitled to a grant based on what the Minister of State has told us this afternoon.

Deputy Joe McHugh

I thank the Minister of State for his response. I will forward the information directly to the Minister. In the short time available to me, I wish to put another matter on the record. There is no need for a response from the Minister of State as I am putting it on the record for the consideration of the people in the Department of Education and Skills. It relates to the issue of smaller schools. The initial thinking about smaller schools was that eventually a school would become a one teacher school and, as a result of parents voting with their feet and taking the students from that school, the school would close. However, that is not the case. Parents of children in one teacher schools, and I have in mind one such school in my constituency, wish to keep their children in these schools. The teacher is under pressure so we must examine the resources available to such teachers and other resources for protection, safety, regulation and a proper educational environment. I raise this for the attention of the people in the Department of Education and Skills. They should re-think the capacity and resources being provided for the teacher in one teacher schools. Parents are voting with their feet. They wish to keep their children in one teacher schools and we must support them.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That would be very suitable for a parliamentary question or another Topical Issue debate on another day.

Deputy Brian Hayes

That this issue has arisen is probably an unintended consequence of the fact that more people are being naturalised. Thanks to the efforts of the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, many more people are being naturalised as Irish citizens. He has broken the bottlenecks that existed in the system and, as a consequence, the issue the Deputies have raised might well have been extenuated in some cases. That many more people have become Irish citizens is a good thing.

My understanding is that where a young person goes into the system and in the course of their studies their parent becomes naturalised, they apply either for naturalisation themselves or for leave to remain, which is the normal immigration standard.

According to my notes, where a student's leave to remain in the State is determined by reference to the conditions attached to their parents' initial permission to reside, that condition applies for the student even after his or her parents are naturalised and until such a time as a student naturalises himself or herself. The notes go on to state that students who qualified for a grant at the commencement of their studies, as they satisfied one of the conditions as set out in the student support regulations, would qualify for a grant following their parents' naturalisation. As one or both of their parents has become an Irish citizen, they then apply in their own right because they are over the age, and according to my information, whatever they had should remain.

The Deputies have put on the record information that this is not the case, so I think it is a case of SUSI officials, the Minister and his colleagues in the Department getting together and seeing whether there are some unintended consequences that were not picked up in the original regulations, because this should not be happening and I fully agree with the Deputies that this is fundamentally unfair. The Minister for Education and Skills, being a good and honest man, will take this issue very seriously and see whether a solution can be found on a small number of cases that may have come to the Deputies' attention.

Child Care Services Funding

Deputy Finian McGrath

I thank the Leas-Cheann Chomhairle for giving me the opportunity to raise this urgent issue, namely, the funding crisis at the Darndale-Belcamp integrated child care service in Darndale, Dublin 17. Last week I had the honour of being brought around this excellent service by Barbara Quinlan, who is a board member, and by Kelda Barnes, who is the centre's manager. I was immediately impressed by their top class service, their quality care, their professionalism and their commitment to 260 children from the local community.

It is important that the Minister hears this and that the Dáil knows about the valuable work taking place at the Darndale-Belcamp integrated child care service. This service was opened in January 2001, and initially the plan was for a maximum of 150 children aged from birth to 12 years of age, with playrooms, a kitchen, a dining area and sleeping rooms. Over the years, the centre has evolved into becoming the largest crèche in the country, and it now caters daily for 260 children, 90% of whom are from the immediate area of Darndale, Belcamp and Moatview. This is a recognised area of disadvantage and also includes a large Traveller community. One sixth of the children attending are Travellers and the centre employs one core staff member and eight community employment participants from the Traveller community. This is an area of severe deprivation. Addiction, unemployment, crime and, most recently, gun crime are part of their children's everyday lives. In 2011, 11 of the centre's children lost a parent to drugs or suicide. In 2012, a child in the centre's toddler room was held in his father's arms while his father was shot, and in 2013 the centre referred children to a social work team due to concerns about domestic violence and possible neglect or abuse. Forty of the children have direct links to the HSE social network, the public health nurse, the speech therapist, the CRC, St. Michael's House or to Temple Street hospital. Currently, 25 of the centre's children attend its project work for issues, including speech and language delay, attachment, domestic violence, learning disabilities and behaviour. This shows the valuable work that is going on in the centre.

The centre now has almost 100 staff members, with 45 core staff and the remainder being made of community employment, Tús participants, JobsPlus staff members, relief staff and volunteers. The centre no longer uses the HSE pay scale for the 45 core staff, as it is unable to afford the benchmarking payments and has introduced a 3% pay cut. The starting salary for core child care staff is €24,263, so there is no big deal in that. The centre has worked hard to improve the quality of the early years service it provides. It has achieved the Síolta award in 2013 and it is now participating in Aistear along with eight other centres in the area. This centre strives for quality and is a vital community support for the children and families. It feeds into the wonderful work done by the Preparing for Life team and the local DEIS schools.

The bottom line is that the centre needs €100,000 because it has run out of cash reserves, but it also needs an additional €200,000 per annum to stay open. I am talking about 260 children and €100,000 to keep this centre open. I urge the Minister of State to listen carefully to my submission and support this excellent centre.

Deputy Brian Hayes

I thank Deputy McGrath for raising this very important issue. I am aware of the integrated child care service at Darndale-Belcamp, and as he rightly informed the House, it is a terrific centre and the work it does in that community is much regarded, not just locally but also as a pilot for communities in other parts of the city and country. I apologise that the Minister, Deputy Fitzgerald, is unable to take this matter in the House today, but she asked me to convey the following information to the Deputy McGrath.

The Department of Children and Youth Affairs has a significant investment, totalling more than €260 million, to support the child-care programmes. This means that close to 68,000 children benefit annually from child care places as a consequence of the expenditure of that money. Despite the challenging budgetary situation, the Minister has succeeded in maintaining the preschool year as a universal and free programme, ensuring a significant number of children can avail of quality preschool services who would not otherwise be in a position to do so.

The Darndale-Belcamp integrated child care service was established in January 2001. Since that time the centre has evolved into the largest crèche in the country, catering for some 260 children daily. Of these, 90% are from the immediate areas of Darndale, Belcamp and Moatview. These areas are recognised as areas of severe disadvantage and include a large number from the Traveller community. Almost one sixth of the children attending are from the Traveller community, and one core staff member and eight community employment participants currently working in the centre are from the Traveller community. This is a welcome contribution that the community is making towards the success of the crèche.

The centre has a total of almost 100 staff with 45 core staff, and the remaining staff comprises community employment and Tús participants, JobsPlus staff members, relief staff and volunteers. The centre's income in 2013 was €1.959 million and its expenditure in 2013 was €2.022 million. The deficit for the 2013 was €62,508. The main income for the year was derived from a number of sources and the centre has annual service level agreements with its three main funding agencies, namely, the Child and Family Agency, FÁS and Pobal. Funding for this centre has been maintained, which is provided by the Department under the early childhood care and education free preschool year programme, or ECCE, and the community childcare subvention programme, or CCS, which supports low income and disadvantaged families with child care costs. To date in this school year, funding totalling €35,500 has been paid under the ECCE programme. Funding of €98,600 has also been approved under the CCS programme.

I wish to assure the Deputy that every effort will be made to ensure the situation is dealt with. We understand there is a difficulty in the balance that is required. Agency funding to the centre will be reviewed to identify efficiencies, and the impact in services resulting from a 2.8% reduction in agency funding last year and this year.

The payment is being facilitated in order for a more comprehensive and detailed analysis to be completed so as to arrive at a long-term funding solution involving all the stakeholders.

Deputy Finian McGrath

I thank the Minister of State for his response. I hope I am pushing an open door considering his statement that he hopes every effort will be made to ensure the matter is dealt with.

The project is excellent, which the Minister of State accepts. Having been involved in education, I take his point. If the project is closed, vulnerable children will be put at risk immediately. The issue of underachievement must be borne in mind. In some cases, many of the children in question are taken into care. It is important, therefore, that the project be kept open. A key strength of the project is that 60% of the staff are from the immediate locality. If it were an IDA project, we would all be jumping up and down over this.

Let me return to the issue that the Minister of State mentioned, namely, the identification of efficiencies. I have talked to Barbara Quinlan and Kelda Barnes, the manager. By God, they are well able to run the organisation efficiently and professionally.

Historically, the HSE has paid for a manager, deputy manager, part-time cook, part-time cleaner and seven full-time child care staff members, and it has funded 90% of the operating costs associated with the 40 FTE children. However, since 2008 the funding has decreased annually, from €453,744 to €353,784. This no longer fully supports the named staff salaries and no funding is available to meet operational costs as a consequence. I have submitted the figures to the Minister already. It is important that the service be retained.

I appeal to the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Hayes, and the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald, really to focus on this project, think of the 260 children and the 100 local jobs that are making a valuable contribution to the broader society. The Minister of State should do his best to ensure the centre gets the funding necessary to keep it open.

Deputy Brian Hayes

The Minister with responsibility in this area, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald, is well aware of the issues the Deputy has raised. As I stated in my previous presentation, the gap last year between expenditure and income was approximately €62,000. That has to be plugged. The lead agency in bringing together other agencies is the Child and Family Agency. FÁS, Pobal and the HSE will all be brought around the table to determine whether we can identify how the deficit can be plugged in circumstances where there have been reductions across the board, as I fully accept. It is crucial that the service remain for the children and, as the Deputy rightly said, the excellent staff who provide such a wonderful service to them. The Minister is fully briefed on this matter and that is why she has asked the Child and Family Agency to bring all the funders together to determine whether we can work this problem out. The sum of money in question is not huge and I very much expect and hope that the problem will be resolved sooner rather than later.

Community Employment Schemes Funding

Deputy Sean Fleming

I appreciate the opportunity to raise this issue to ensure sufficient financial resources will be in place so people on community employment schemes in County Laois who are currently working in child care can undertake training to improve their qualifications so as to continue working in this area. Recently I was contacted by a child care facility in County Laois, Jelly Tots in Abbeyleix. It is a crèche and play-school and it has been an outstanding facility for a number of years. It is a community child care facility, not a privately run facility. Those who have been working there for a number of years have been community employment scheme participants. In total, approximately nine people were involved working in Jelly Tots as part of the community employment scheme.

Recently, all child care-related community employment in County Laois has been centralised under Laois Partnership. That is fine and it happened on 3 March. I have no issue with the centralisation and with having the various community employment schemes all under the one central scheme in County Laois. This works well and there are approximately 30 people involved. I am sure the centralised scheme is very good and has a clear focus. It is not the case that the supervisor is dealing with tidy towns and then with community child care facilities, as can happen. The facility in question is dedicated to child care. It is a good idea to have a clear focus. The scheme is well run.

The difficulty is that the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald, introduced new legislation to ensure everybody working in child care must have a FETAC qualification at level 5 to work in child care in 2015. This is the nub of the issue. The staff in question have been working in child care but now are required to have a qualification at FETAC level 5. This, too, is welcome. I appreciate it and it is a good, positive step because we want to ensure the best people are looking after our children. This ties in with the children's referendum we held some time ago with a view to putting greater emphasis on children. It is important that people working in child care have all the knowledge and training required. However, it has now arisen in County Laois that those staff currently working in this area who do not have the FETAC level 5 qualification must be trained to that level. Some in Laois already have that qualification. While Pobal has a learner fund, it excludes community employment participants because Pobal is publicly funded and there is a training budget in the community employment scheme. If the latter were used along with the funding of Pobal, this would be regarded as double funding. Therefore, the staff are not eligible to avail themselves of the Pobal learner fund, which presents a particular difficulty.

The community employment scheme authorities, which have very limited training funds, want to use that funding to train the staff with level 4 qualifications up to level 5. In the Abbeyleix scheme, perhaps four of the nine staff need the additional FETAC training. I am not sure of the figures pertaining to the scheme right across the county under Laois Partnership.

Early Childhood Ireland has no course in Laois. The point is that while it is running the courses around the country, it did not run one in County Laois. I asked locals whether they had tried to get onto a scheme in a neighbouring county and they stated they tried Thurles and Kildare only to find there were no spaces available. We have good trainers in County Laois to carry out the training required. I understand, although I have not had it verified, that the Laois County Childcare Committee has applied to be a trainer to provide the facility but I believe no definite word has been given on this. It could serve as one possibility of allowing the training to happen in County Laois.

Deputy Brian Hayes

I apologise on behalf of the Minister, who is unable to respond to this matter today. She has asked me to thank Deputy Fleming for raising it. She will examine it closely again on foot of the Deputy's remarks.

In response to the Deputy's question, the Department of Social Protection is consolidating and improving the provision of training and work experience for community employment, CE, participants, particularly those who wish to pursue a career in child care. For CE participants who work directly with children, a dedicated programme comprising formal learning and supervised work experience is now a mandatory part of participation, as the Deputy stated. This formal learning programme will lead to a FETAC level 5 major award in early childhood care and education. This is the minimum entry requirement for a child care practitioner. The programme will last two years, during which a major award will be earned. One year of work practice will lead to the programme lasting for a maximum of three years overall. This programme involves defined standards of achievement, a career progression path and a structure for CE participants in early years services. These changes are designed to provide a more tailored and valuable support to the provision of community child care and to achieve greater coherence between participation on CE schemes and the jobs market.

The new CE child care scheme started in Laois on 3 March 2014 under the CE sponsorship of Laois Community and Enterprise Development Company Limited. The child care CE scheme has been allocated 50 CE places. Thirty-three CE places are allocated for the direct provision of child care and 17 places are allocated for child care support.

An additional training budget to facilitate the completion of the full major award at level 5 in child care will be made available. The child care CE scheme has also been allocated an additional CE supervisor to mentor and support the child care workers through the major award. The interviews for the new child care supervisor will take place before the end of April.

It seems, from the information I have, that an additional training budget to facilitate the completion of the full major award at level 5 will be made available. I hope that resolves the issue.

Deputy Sean Fleming

I thank the Minister of State. I have raised Topical Issues on a number of occasions and this is one of the first positive responses I have been able to achieve.

Deputy Brian Hayes

Mine too.

Deputy Sean Fleming

This is good news for the people in County Laois who are involved under the Laois Community and Enterprise Development Company Limited, to give it its full formal title, although I use the local title I am used to dealing with. I had said there are approximately 30 places on the scheme, and I am pleased the Minister of State has confirmed there will now be 50 CE places. That is quite an undertaking and makes it quite a large scheme. It is good that it should be centralised in the county and I want to acknowledge everything the Minister of State has said so far, which tallies exactly with the information I have been given. There are 33 places for the direct provision of child care and 17 places are allocated for child care support. The most important sentence from the Minister of State, which I will repeat, is: "An additional training budget to facilitate the completion of the full major award at level 5 in child care will be made available." That is good news. If the news was not good, I was going to ask whether there were any other mechanisms in the Department through some other schemes that could in some way be dovetailed to work with it, but in view of that good response, I am happy that this is no longer necessary.

It was unfortunate that one or two people had commenced this when the funding ran out. So long as the funding and the training programme are in place and people are able to get their qualifications, I do not have a fixation as to whether this training is delivered through the Laois Community and Enterprise Development Company, through the Laois County Childcare Committee or through the organisation Early Childhood Ireland, as it is not my affair to interfere with that, no more than it is the Minister of State's. The essence of all of this is to make sure we have suitably qualified people in the area of child care from 2015. I appreciate the good news that funding will be made available to complete this training.

Deputy Brian Hayes

I thank the Deputy. It is clear there is a responsibility on the Department to provide training. If we are asking people to move from level 4 to level 5, there is some obligation on funders to provide support to people as they go about that journey. I can confirm that an additional training budget to facilitate the completion to level 5 in child care will be made available. It is crucially important also that a new CE supervisor to mentor and support the child care workers through this award will be in place before the end of April. These are two important pieces of news the Deputy can take back to his constituents.

Flood Prevention Measures

Deputy Joe Carey

At the outset, I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this issue for debate. January and February 2014 will be remembered for severe storm damage and flooding right across the country. Thankfully, the storms have gone and the weather has settled down, but in one townland on the outskirts of the village of Newmarket-on-Fergus, at Ballycar, flood waters remain extremely high. These floods are a recurring problem which are having a detrimental effect on residents, on farmland and on the rail line between Limerick and Ennis, which is part of the western rail corridor. Five households are inaccessible, hundreds of acres of farmland remain under water and the rail service has been closed since 2 February and is not expected to re-open until the end of May. The extremely wet winter has dramatically increased the water levels of Ballycar Lough, resulting in meters of water covering the rail line and flooding farmland and the public road.

A solution to this problem needs to be found. In my view, no agency wants to take responsibility for the issue. In the meantime, passengers who turn up to Ennis railway station are forced to take a bus to Limerick and vice versa. Much has been invested in terms of marketing and physical infrastructure to get this rail line re-opened and to get passengers engaged with it, but all of that hard work is now threatened. Sadly, further money will be required to address the damage caused by flood waters to the train tracks when those waters recede. Equally, families living in Ballycar have to take a cross-country route through neighbouring properties to get in and out of their homes, sometimes two or three times a day. One family has twins under the age of two and it is a very difficult task for them each day. This is a recurring problem that needs to be resolved.

It is important that a long-term solution is found and that local views are listened to. From speaking with local landowners and residents, I know they are more than willing to play an active role in coming up with a solution. It is my understanding that Irish Rail presented the OPW with an in-depth report focused on the flooding issues at Ballycar. This report has put forward a number of options which need to be explored and put into action. A swallow hole on the outskirts of Newmarket-on-Fergus needs to be cleaned and some sort of filter must be incorporated into it to prevent further clogging. Local landowners have put forward the view that an additional drain could be opened to link into the existing water channels, thus removing the flood from Ballycar by moving the excess water to tributaries feeding the River Fergus. I note and welcome Clare County Council's commitment, subject to funding being released, to raise the road at three different locations in Ballycar in an effort to keep the public road open.

What I am asking for today is that an official from the OPW would be appointed from the Mungret office to co-ordinate all agencies which have a interest in this matter, such as Clare County Council, Irish Rail and the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport, together with local landowners and residents, with a view to setting up a working group to seek a solution to this issue, and for the OPW to be the responsible agency to implement the solution. Rail users using the national rail network, specifically the Ennis to Limerick line, residents of Ballycar, landowners and the ordinary taxpayers want and deserve a solution to this problem. The flooding at Ballycar cannot be resolved without one agency taking a lead role and that agency must be the OPW.

Deputy Brian Hayes

I thank Deputy Carey for raising this very important matter. As he knows, I am aware of the flooding problem at Ballycar Lough because he has raised it with me on a continuous basis. I understand that road flooding prevents access to a few houses in the area but that the substantive issue has to do with the flooding on the Ennis to Limerick rail line.

I am advised that the cause of this flooding has to do with the geology of the area, where the outfall from Ballycar Lough is a swallow hole which does not have adequate capacity to discharge the increased inflows which occur during prolonged rainfall. As a result, the water levels rise and can inundate the railway line and the adjacent road, blocking access to a small number of houses. The Office of Public Works has been liaising with Iarnród Éireann and the relevant local authorities in regard to this matter and will continue to work constructively with them. Technical advice and assistance has been offered and the OPW will continue to make its knowledge and expertise available.

On the proposal the Deputy has made, I believe it would be a good idea to set up a working group between all of the relevant stakeholders - the OPW, Iarnród Éireann, the local authority and the community. On the OPW side, I will undertake to commit an engineer or an official to attend such a meeting. It might be more useful, however, if the meeting was brought together by the local authority. Nonetheless, we will certainly play our part in working with all of the other agencies to find a solution.

There are essentially two options available to deal with this problem. One is to attempt to undertake works to mitigate the flooding at the lough. This has been investigated and a preliminary cost of approximately €10 million has been estimated for the required works, which is one quarter of the national flood relief budget for this year - I just make that point.

Another option is to raise the affected stretch of road and the railway line. Raising the road could be undertaken by the local authority at very little cost. In respect of the rail line, the OPW has consistently taken the view that as the flooding impacts primarily on the railway line and that the railway line would be the main beneficiary of flood mitigation measures, it is, therefore, a matter for larnród Éireann as the owner of the railway line to resolve the problem by taking the lead on and funding the flood mitigation works or by the raising the railway line.

I am aware of the report prepared for larnród Éireann by RPS Consultants setting out a number of possible measures to address this problem. The OPW wrote to larnród Éireann in April 2012 with detailed comments on this report and indicating areas where it had concerns. The report recommended a scheme of works involving discharging the floodwaters downstream to an embanked area that already floods occasionally, contains some crucial air traffic control infrastructure, is in part the subject of significant environmental designation and only discharges to the sea when the tide is out. The concerns with this recommended scheme should be clear but the OPW expressed particular concern at a proposal to increase the discharge from the lough to a tide-locked area containing internationally critical low-lying transport infrastructure. The proposals in the report would require some further mitigating measures which the report has not taken into account. It was noted by the OPW also that the RPS report did not include a cost-benefit analysis of the proposed flood relief works. Proposed works on this scale could only proceed on the basis of a robust appraisal which indicated a clear economic justification for spending €10 million.

The OPW also pointed out that the estimated cost of raising the railway line was only marginally more than the proposal, preferred by larnród Éireann, that flood relief works be undertaken. When account is taken of the additional cost of the further mitigating measures that would be required but not covered in the RPS report, the economic argument clearly tilts in favour of raising the railway line. The OPW remains willing to work with larnród Éireann, the local authorities and local residents to produce an effective resolution of the problem at Ballycar. However, as I have indicated, the OPW has always been clear in its position that as larnród Éireann is the primary beneficiary from any proposals to resolve the flooding problem at Ballycar, it would have to take the lead on and fund whatever project may proceed, be it flood mitigation works or raising the railway line. It would appear to be the case that the latter option is the most cost-effective solution in any event. As the Deputy has made a very worthwhile contribution and proposal about a working group, I commit that my colleagues in the OPW will come to the table once others do.

Deputy Joe Carey

I thank the Minister for his reply. As I understand it, the railway line has already been raised. Clare County Council intends to raise the road at three different locations where it floods, which is welcome. I do not believe raising the railway line is the solution. I note that €10 million is a lot of money. larnród Éireann, the OPW and Clare County Council are all State bodies receiving public money and public money has gone into the railway line to get it up and running. It is a successful railway line and many people use it to go from Ennis to Limerick. This issue is undermining the national rail network. It has an impact on people going to work and tourists and needs to be resolved. It is having an impact on people living in Ballycar. I welcome the fact that the Minister of State has committed to involving an official from the OPW in a working group because there has been a lot of passing the buck in respect of this issue. I am delighted that the Minister of State has stood up to the plate today and committed himself to involving an official from the OPW in a working group. I will commit to contacting Clare County Council to ask it to convene a meeting between itself, the OPW, larnród Éireann, local landowners and the residents with a view to coming up with some type of solution. It may not cost €10 million. Local people have put forward some solutions that they feel may alleviate the flooding problem. I will commit to doing that and, hopefully, some solution can be found.

Deputy Brian Hayes

The Deputy's suggestion that all the relevant agencies come together is a good one. It is worth putting on the record that we reckon that the cost of raising the road in the area, which could alleviate this problem, would be somewhere between €20,000 and €50,000. It is obviously a matter for the county council. It is also worth saying that we are clear in our view that larnród Éireann has the necessary legal powers under the legislation to deal with the flooding problem at Ballycar. If a railway order is made, the company's powers are very similar to those of the OPW. The primary beneficiaries here are the railway line and the rail network. They have a responsibility to try to find a solution in financial terms. If bringing the people together to see if some collective solution can be found is something worth pursuing, the Deputy can be assured that not only will the OPW be at the table, it will try to find a solution.