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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 16 Apr 2014

Vol. 838 No. 2

White Paper on Universal Health Insurance: Statements

The current health system is both unaffordable and unfair. That it is unaffordable is evidenced by the fact that the spend relating to it quadrupled between 1997 and 2009 and that in January 2011 there were 569 people lying on trolleys in hospitals throughout the country. It is unfair because it gives rise to a situation whereby people are often treated on the basis of what they can afford, not what they need and certainly not when they need it. The system is also unsustainable. This is the case because, thankfully, the number of people over the age of 65 in this country increases by 20,000 each year. This is a good thing but it imposes both a strain and a burden on the health service. That is why we must change both the system and the model of care.

The Government has embarked on an ambitious programme of health service reforms and we are already seeing positive impacts from those reforms. However, Deputies should realise that there are limits to what reform of a fundamentally flawed system can accomplish. If we want to realise the kind of health service which we desire and which our people deserve, then radical reform is the only option. Some have questioned whether we can afford this kind of reform. My answer is simple: we cannot afford not to reform the system. Without this kind of radical reform, the pressures on a dysfunctional system will become overwhelming. People have also asked whether this is the right time to introduce reforms, particularly in view of the financial difficulties the country is experiencing. To them I say, "If not now, when?"

The profound inequality at the heart of the current health system is most obvious in respect of access to acute hospital and consultant services. Although the public health service provides universal access to acute hospital services, the fact is that individuals who choose and can afford to buy private health insurance do so mainly because it gives them faster access to certain hospital services. If hospital services are free, why have almost half the members of the population chosen to take out private insurance? The answer must be that they have lost faith in the public health service's ability to deliver on time for them. This is what an unfair, two-tier health system means in practice. Those who can afford it can obtain faster access to hospital services, and those who cannot must wait. They must do so because the high costs that make our current system unaffordable lie at the root of the unfairness. High costs mean that services must be rationed and this gives rise to long waiting lists.

The Government made a commitment to the kind of radical reform needed in order to tackle one of the most profound inequalities in Irish society. We committed to introducing a system of universal health insurance, UHI, so that everyone will have health cover from his or her choice of insurer and access to high-quality care on the basis of his or her medical needs, rather than on his or her ability to pay. The publication earlier this month of the White Paper on Universal Health Insurance underpins the Government's determination to deliver on its commitment. We were clear from the start that achieving this goal would require at least two terms of office. The job of this Government is to put in place the building blocks in order that a fair and cost-effective system of UHI can be delivered by 2019.

The White Paper sets out the model of UHI for Ireland. In designing this model we were acutely aware of the opportunity we have to learn from the experience of other countries, both in the context of the good practices they have developed and also from the inevitable mistakes they made. We did not want to import the model of another country, rather we wanted to learn from the experience in states such as Germany and the Netherlands in order that - in line with the commitments in the programme for Government - we might develop a model that best fits the needs of the Irish system. We looked to Northern Ireland when developing the special delivery unit. Since it was established, it has assisted those on the front line to deliver great progress. We looked to Denmark and Canada in the context of taking steps to ensure patient safety. We looked to the UK when seeking to establish the hospital trusts. We are not importing a single system from elsewhere, rather we are trying to learn from other systems in order to discover what best suits our situation. With that objective in mind, my Department undertook detailed policy analysis of various multi-payer models to design the basket of health services for the future and financing mechanisms for UHI.

I take this opportunity to express my appreciation to the members of the UHI implementation group I established in early 2012 for their contribution in terms of the support and advice provided to my Department. I value, too, the advice the group supplied in respect of some of the core building blocks for UHI, including the introduction of a money-follows-the-patient funding system and the creation of hospital groups.

What will the Irish model of UHI mean for the people? Under it, everyone will be insured for the same standard package of services. In broad terms, this package will include core primary care as well as acute hospital services, including acute mental health services. Under UHI, there will no longer be any distinction between public and private patients. As set out in the programme for Government, everyone will have health cover from his or her chosen insurer. The health insurance market will include a number of private health insurers but people will still continue to have the choice to be covered by the publicly-owned VHI. Insurers will commission health services for their customers from health care providers, who will compete for business in a well regulated market. While people will buy their UHI policies directly from their chosen insurers, a system of financial support will ensure that cover will be affordable. Those on the lowest incomes will have their costs fully paid for by the State. The State will subsidise the costs of others on the basis of their ability to pay. These subsidies will be paid directly to insurers. The Government is determined that people on low incomes who currently qualify for medical cards will not lose out on benefits under UHI. However, all individuals - regardless of whether they pay all, some, or none of the cost of the UHI premium - will be able to access a standard package of health services on a fair and equitable basis that will meet their health needs.

Our system of UHI will be founded on principles of social solidarity. I refer here to the right of people to be accepted by their chosen health insurers and to switch insurers annually - in other words, open enrolment; the right to renew their UHI policies, that is, lifetime cover; and the right to the same policy for the same price, regardless of age or risk profile - in other words, community rating. These are fundamental protections that currently apply in the private health insurance market and they will continue to apply under UHI. It is intended that the standard package of UHI will cover a comprehensive suite of core health services. Under this single tier system, neither insurers nor providers will be allowed to sell faster access to services in the standard UHI package.

I am firmly committed to this fundamental aspect to reform in order that everyone will be able to access the health services they need in a timely manner. I realise some are concerned that the introduction of universal health insurance, UHI, could mean that waiting lists grow even longer. I agree this would be wholly unacceptable. We have already achieved great progress in reducing waiting times and we are not finished yet. This is why I will bring forward a strategy shortly to bring waiting times in Ireland in line with European norms and this will take place in advance of the introduction of universal health insurance.

Some health services are unlikely to be included in any standard package of services under UHI, for example, surgery that is purely cosmetic as opposed to reconstructive surgery after medical treatment. People will still be able to pay privately for services not included in the standard UHI package or purchase supplemental health insurance cover for these. However, these supplemental policies will not be subject to community rating and, therefore, supplemental health insurance premiums may take into account risk factors such as health status and age for non-standard procedures. Certain services, including social care, public health and well-being services, will continue to be funded by the Exchequer through general taxation. They will not be included in the standard UHI package and people will not have to buy supplementary insurance to access them. However, I emphasise that these will be delivered in an integrated manner and around the needs of the individual.

The delivery of a single-tier health system supported by universal health insurance is a central pillar of the Government's overall health reform programme. Since coming into office I, along with my colleagues, the Minister of State, Deputy Lynch, and the Minister of State, Deputy White, have been working on a range of reforms which will result in a fundamental shift in the way our health services are funded, organised and delivered. The purpose is to improve health outcomes, develop our health services, make the best use of limited resources and lay the foundations of the future universal health insurance system. The aim is to ensure more efficient and effective delivery of services in order that we can move away from a hospital centred model to one that provides the most appropriate care in the most appropriate setting. Members will have heard me say frequently that patients should be treated at the lowest level of complexity that is safe, timely, efficient and as near to home as possible. The aim is always to improve outcomes for the patient.

The introduction of UHI is the most radical reform of the Irish health system since the foundation of the State. It requires time and careful planning to implement. My goal is to put in place the essential groundwork to underpin UHI in the lifetime of this Government in order that UHI can be implemented by 2019. I am reminded that some people say we are going too quickly while others say we are going too slowly. We are going to do it right. That is the most important thing and we need not take as long as other jurisdictions because we can learn from what they have done. We will not be so precipitous as to rush this or not do it properly. The White Paper identifies and outlines progress to date on the key structural, regulatory, financial and information related building blocks that will pave the way for the introduction of universal health insurance. I will refer briefly to some of the key building blocks.

As Deputies will be aware, universal primary care is at the core of the Government's goals for universal health insurance. Today, the Government approved the health (general practitioners service) Bill 2014, which provides the basis for each of the 420,000 children in Ireland aged five years and under to access a general practitioner service without facing the barrier of fees. At present, the parents of approximately 250,000 children under six years of age must pay if they need to attend a GP. This legislation will bring Ireland into line with health systems in Europe which ensure all children can access a family doctor when they need the service. The Government has provided new additional funding of €37 million to meet the cost of this measure. This represents the first step in introducing a universal GP service for the entire population. Under universal health insurance, every member of the population will have a universal entitlement to the core primary care services provided by GPs. The Bill will be distributed to Deputies in the coming days when publication is complete. My colleague, the Minister of State with responsibility for primary care, Deputy Alex White, has invited the representative bodies of GPs to meet him in connection with the draft GP contract for the under-six years service, which the HSE recently published for public consultation. I encourage GPs and GP bodies to take up the offer. The best way to engage is across the table in order that we can learn of their concerns and address them.

One quarter of our children under three years are either overweight or obese and we know what this means for their future health. We need to consider a contract that looks to prevention rather than episodic cure all the time.

The transformation of public hospitals into independent not-for-profit hospital trusts is a key commitment in the programme for Government. As a first step in the process, seven hospital groups have been established. The creation of hospital groups is a critical step to improving hospital performance and, ultimately, patient outcomes. Chairpersons have been appointed to all seven hospital groups and board members have been appointed to three out of the seven hospital groups, the west-north-west hospital group, the University of Limerick hospital group and the children's hospital group, and appointment of the remaining four is imminent. Group chief executives have been appointed to five hospital groups and the HSE is working to appoint group chief executives to the remaining two groups. Following this, management teams will be appointed. The strategic advisory group to oversee implementation of hospital groups, the development of policy direction and the guiding of the reorganisation of acute services is in place and has had several productive meetings, which I have attended. On 1 January this year, we began the phased implementation of a money follows the patient funding system for acute hospitals. This will bring an end to the inefficient block grants and deliver funding on the basis of the number of patients treated. While the initial focus of the new funding system is on hospital care, the aim is to extend the system to care in primary and community settings. We know what happened with the inefficient block grants. When the money ran out, everything stopped. Doctors, nurses and staff got paid but patients suffered with cancelled outpatient and theatre appointments. This will no longer be the case. However, it will not only be about volume and the number of patients. It will also have a particular focus on outcomes, for example, the number of patients who have had to be re-admitted because initial treatment was not successful.

Effective regulation of the safety and quality of health services is important to protect and safeguard people's health. The approval of national health care standards and ongoing work in respect of licensing legislation are central to achieving good governance, patient safety and quality of care. Draft legislation to support the new licensing regime is being prepared. It is my intention to have the new licensing system up and running in early 2015. It has been a matter of concern to me that the Health Information and Quality Authority, HIQA, has no role in licensing. As matters stand, private clinics and hospitals, primary care facilities, home care organisations and home help organisations are services where consumers and patients need to be protected and there needs to be oversight by HIQA in this regard.

Competing health insurers will form the backbone of the new purchaser-provider split. They will be the commissioners of a wide range of primary care services, acute hospital services and acute mental health. Even before UHI, we need an affordable competitive market that meets the needs of consumers. I am keen to create the best possible environment within which more people will seek to take out and keep health insurance. In particular, I encourage younger people to join as early as possible, and to this end we will have in place lifetime community rating and discounted rates for adults. Lifetime community rating is designed to encourage people to join health insurance schemes early. Late entry loadings are applied to those who join later, but of course there would be a grace period to allow people take out insurance and a strong communications campaign to give everyone adequate notice of the change. I have heard Deputies raise in the House an issue I have raised myself. It it important that a 50 year old who has been in the VHI all his life should get some recognition of that fact vis-à-vis a 50 year old who was never insured before and who takes up insurance for the first time.

The second initiative I will be announcing involves some discounted rates for young adults while protecting the important principle of community rating. This is to help address the sharp increase in the cost of insurance faced by young people or their parents around the age of 21 years when child discounts cease. This change can lead to young adults downgrading cover or leaving the market altogether. Subject to the appropriate legislation, I intend to provide for these two initiatives to operate from 2015, allowing for an appropriate notice period for both customers and insurers.

I am committed to making further improvements to risk equalisation for health insurance as well.

In January 2013, I introduced a new permanent risk equalisation scheme designed to take greater account of the extra cost of treating older and sicker patients compared with younger and healthier ones. Last December, I introduced further improvements to the scheme's effectiveness. This process will continue. I am committed to improving the extent to which we take the health status of patients into account so that the extra costs of sicker patients of all ages are more fully reflected in the scheme. My Department is working with the Health Insurance Authority, HIA, to develop a more refined measure of health status as part of the risk equalisation scheme in order that insurers can be encouraged to take on sicker and older patients. Insurers have been making submissions to the HIA on the issue and I intend to set out my overall plans shortly for the scheme that will operate from 2016 to 2018.

We continue to address the issue of the cost of private health care through renegotiation of consultants' contracts in respect of the procedures that are performed, particularly those that take much less time than they used to, benchmarking what consultants are paid, auditing hospitals and challenging clinicians' rationale for some of the tests they conduct.

Significant organisational change is necessary to pave the way for the introduction of universal health insurance, UHI. This will involve the abolition of the HSE, which will be replaced with structures that deliver the essential purchaser-provider split, a key building block for UHI that will pave the way for health care providers to operate as independent entities in the future market-based health system. These are important initiatives that individually and collectively will play a vital role in improving our health service in advance of the introduction of UHI.

As well as providing detailed information on the UHI model, the White Paper overviews the processes and structures for determining the future health basket, including the services that will be funded under UHI as well as the ongoing management and review of the future basket; sets out the options for financing UHI; and clarifies the key regulatory and cost control frameworks governing the UHI system.

In designing our future health system, we must decide which services should be funded through UHI and which should continue to be funded directly by the State or individuals' own resources. These questions are of fundamental importance to everyone living in Ireland. The answers are complex and multifaceted, involving various technical, economic and ethical considerations. These are deeply value-laden decisions and, therefore, it is important the values underpinning the health basket reflect the values of the society in which we live. Good practice in other jurisdictions in these decision-making processes involves a critical blend of technical appraisal and comprehensive consultation with all relevant stakeholders. Therefore, I intend to establish a commission comprising all relevant expertise within the coming weeks. The commission will be tasked with developing detailed and costed proposals on the composition of the future health basket, including those that will form part of the UHI package of care.

However, these considerations cannot be solely based on expert analysis. They must also be based on values. In that regard, the commission will be required to engage in consultation with the public and system stakeholders. I hope the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Health and Children will be centrally involved in the consultation process. The committee is being invited to conduct hearings and make recommendations on a values framework that will assist in underpinning decisions on the future health basket and to consider the options proposed by the expert commission. Responsibility for the final decision on the services to be provided under UHI will, of course, rest with the Government.

UHI represents a substantial shift in how we finance and organise the health system. I am determined that total spending by the State on health care under UHI should not exceed total spending under the current two-tier system. With this in mind, the White Paper has been prepared with due regard to the fiscal realities and the need for robust cost control. The White Paper sets out a comprehensive cost control framework to ensure affordability and contain costs. These range from price monitoring of insurers and setting maximum prices for health care providers to more aggressive measures, such as capping insurer overheads and profit margins.

Ultimately, the cost of UHI will depend on a number of key decisions, including the basket of services to be covered and the scope and design of the financial support system. My Department is working to develop and refine proposals on cost control mechanisms, the financial subsidy system and, critically, costed recommendations for the basket of services to be provided under UHI. This work will proceed on the basis of the overriding requirement that overall costs remain within Government expenditure targets. Before seeking the Government's approval to draft UHI legislation, I will revert to it with all relevant cost estimates. A critical part of this work will be our new national health care pricing office, which is already up and running on an administrative basis but which will be placed on a legislative basis so that people can be assured it is truly independent of those who provide the care and those who pay for it.

A dedicated UHI implementation team is being put in place within the Department of Health to drive forward all aspects of the UHI project. The team will be led by the deputy Secretary General and will include specialist skills in such areas as project management, communications support and actuarial and financial advice. This expertise will be sourced externally, as required. The team will be responsible for managing the consultation process, UHI communications, developing costings for UHI and developing policy options for the provision of financial support for citizens in respect of their UHI policies.

In any reform, we must first put in place many of the building blocks, a number of which I have outlined. We must beef up the HIA to give it the tools to regulate the market more seriously. The current situation of more than 256 different policies is set to confuse consumers. The HIA does a great job of providing advice on its website. None the less, we should force insurers into offering fewer products with greater clarity for the consumer.

We must reform the Department of Health. A Prospectus report has made several recommendations about capacity deficits, specifically in particular areas of expertise. These recommendations are being addressed. As the House knows, we are reforming the HSE through a provider-procurer split and the new directorates and hospital groups.

Tomorrow, we will launch Professor Brian MacCraith's report on his work with non-consultant hospital doctors, NCHDs, and other stakeholders in respect of the training and career prospects of NCHDs and new consultants. This work is long overdue and has led to the loss to Ireland of many fine doctors who, after emigrating, have proven their worth by rising to the top of the finest institutions in the world. We want to bring those doctors home and retain the new doctors coming through in order that they can look after Irish people and have the opportunity to engage in research and innovate with new pharma, medical devices and care delivery methodologies.

I had the pleasure and honour of launching Lollipop Day for the Oesophageal Cancer Fund, OCF. Professor John Reynolds of the fund told me it had improved the outcome for oesophageal cancer by nearly 20%. This did not involve new operations or drugs but better organisation and management of care. Many aspects of the care we offer need to be examined and reformed if we are to get the best outcome for our people and patients. This is what we wish to achieve. At the end of the day, these are our families, friends and communities.

Delivering a single tier health system, supported by UHI, is central to achieving our policy vision for the health system, a vision that is far-reaching and ambitious, but one our people deserve. I repeat that it is not my health service or the Leas-Cheann Comhairle's, but everyone's, and I want everyone to have an opportunity to feed into the process of developing the UHI policy and to have his or her voice heard.

I hope that results in the major changes being put in place in the best possible way for the benefit of everyone. I urge individuals, local groups, national organisations and other bodies to participate actively in the consultation process and make their views known on the future funding and delivery of our health service. Full details of the consultation process are available on my Department's website at www.health.gov.ie. This consultation process by way of e-mail will stay open until 28 May 2014. However, as I am at pains to point out, the process through the Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children and through the commission will continue for several months.

I am a republican. I believe in the Republic and I believe a republic should cherish all its citizens equally. This policy of universal health insurance goes to the heart of supporting such a value. It is a value most Irish people hold very dear.

I welcome the opportunity to speak on this issue. Obviously, our party will set out its views on this and on how we fund our health service in the years ahead. I listened to the Minister's remarks regarding universal health insurance and read The Path to Universal Healthcare, which is called a White Paper. We are a long way from seeing a White Paper on universal health insurance as this is simply a discussion document which will facilitate consultation with the public, Members of the Oireachtas, the health committee and other stakeholders. That it would be called a White Paper simply indicates that people in the Department of Health do not know the parliamentary process. A White Paper is supposed to be a body of detail that will generate legislation, and this document is a long way from that. It is, in effect, a discussion document. Nevertheless, it is available and is in the public domain, so we can now discuss it.

The Minister said that he is a republican and that every member of society should be cherished equally. We all subscribe to that. In fact, in our election literature Fianna Fáil calls itself the republican party. The word "republican" has been much maligned in Ireland over the years, but I claim to be a republican too and a member of a republic. That is a sweeping statement, but the broader issue is how we fund our health service over the next number of years to make it equitable, fair and sustainable. One can have an equitable and fair system, but it will not be sustainable, or one can have a sustainable system that might be unfair. The issue is to put a funding system in place whereby people can access health care based on their clinical need as opposed to their ability to pay.

The implication by some commentators in discussions on this issue is that private health insurance is almost parasitical and that these people are living off something else. The bottom line is that private health insurance has for many years lightened the burden on the State in its obligation to provide health care for its citizens. That is a fact. For a long time up to now, perhaps half of our population has taken out private health insurance. While the number has dropped dramatically in recent times, the general principle of having private health insurance has been well established. When people take out private health insurance, they lighten the obligation on the State to provide health cover for them. While that is subsidised through tax reliefs, when a person uses the public hospital system, they subsidise that system through payments from insurers.

There is a very complex system for funding the health service in this country. The public hospital system is funded by taxation and subvention directly from the taxpayer. There is a certain percentage of funding from private health insurers and there are out-of-pocket payments. That combination is how we fund our health service at present. Is it inequitable and unfair? Yes. There are huge elements where some people cannot access health care when they need it. The key question is why that is the case. Is it that the public health system is inefficient and is not run in a way that makes it efficient, lean and, more important, responsive to individuals when they present to it?

What the Minister calls a White Paper and what I call a discussion document is very light on detail. We still must be convinced that by 2019 we will have a system in place whereby a bunch of health insurers will line up in Dún Laoghaire or Dublin Airport to come to this country, claiming to be delighted to get into the Irish health market and anxious to become part of this system. I am dubious as to whether many health insurers will come into the Irish health sector to provide private health insurance. I do not believe that will be the case.

We currently have four insurers. There is the big player, VHI, and the three private health insurance companies. The four of them insure just under half of the population, and that number is dropping. There are many reasons for that. There has been a downturn in the economy and people's ability to pay for health insurance has been damaged. Equally, on the Minister's side, there has been a series of policies which have made private health insurance unaffordable for many families. Last year, the Minister for Finance came to the House and, with a single swoop of his pen, increased the burden on families. I am quite sure the Minister was not happy with that proposal, because it increases the cost of health insurance for families who are already hard pressed. Equally, there is the full cost recoup of private patients in public beds, which will have another impact on the cost to families for the provision of health cover.

In the meantime, the Minister, in his stated policy, wishes to encourage people to take out private health insurance so that when we move to compulsory universality, as many people as possible will be insured. Those on medical cards who cannot afford it will have it purchased for them, and for the cohort in between, who have neither medical cards nor private health insurance, there will be some form of subvention from the State. That means people will be fully assessed. Key questions must be asked in that regard. What will be considered discretionary income? Will it be based on the medical card assessment or on what will it be based? What types of expenditure will people be permitted in terms of mortgage repayments, maintenance of cars and investment in education? All of these questions will have to be answered.

We are a long way, on the Minister's path to universal health insurance, from knowing how much this will cost an average family. We are an equally long way from knowing what type of cover they will have. The Minister says there will be a basic basket of services and that the acute hospital setting, inpatient and outpatient services and mental health services should be included in it. However, if they are to be included, it should be stated in the White Paper, if it were a White Paper, and we could discuss the issues relating to it. Nothing is said in the White Paper about what should be in the suite of services or basket of health care to which people will be entitled under universal health insurance. That is a big void in this document.

Turning to the mechanics of this and the funding model proposed by the Minister, there are many assumptions in it. The Minister said that no one will pay more than they are paying already. That is simply inaccurate. Of course they will pay more than they are paying now. Private health insurance premia are increasing by the hour. Three years ago the Minister said that no one would pay more than they were already paying, but premia have increased by 20% to 30% under the Minister's watch. Even if it was introduced today, many people would be paying a great deal more than they were paying three years ago. Are we to assume there will be no inflation in private health insurance premia between now and 2019? That is the only way it will not cost more, and I do not believe we can make that assumption.

Are we to assume that the tax reliefs in place for private health insurance premia will continue, or will they be removed? If they are removed, it will be another inflationary impact on the cost to families. How will the 20% cohort in between be able to afford to pay for private health insurance? Bear in mind that this is the compulsory purchase of private health insurance. The days of the two certainties of death and taxes are gone. It is now death, taxes and compulsory private health insurance.

There is a great deal to discuss. This is not simply about deciding the suite of services that will be included in the basket.

There is an awful lot more to this than the Minister is outlining, along with the complexity of it. However, the key issue is whether or not it will be sustainable. Will it be sustainable for the State? Will it be sustainable for many families who are making a contribution to the health services through their taxation, but who are unable to afford private health insurance? What happens that cohort?

We endlessly talk about the Minister's endless utopian ideas, but when we look at the discussion document, we cannot find any credible substance to what he is proposing and how he intends getting there, other than this meandering consultation that we are to have tonight, over the next month at the health committee and at the commission that is to be established to look at all these issues. The fundamental principles in this are slim enough, but the most important issue had to be in respect of the suite of services, the basket of goods, the cover that will be provided by health insurance companies. None of that is in the Minister's discussion document.

The Minister looked at the German model, the Dutch model and around the world to find the best model, or an amalgam of models that would suit the Irish situation. That is fine. Of course he should send people out to look at the various models to ascertain which one is most suited to this country. However, when we talk about the cost of health care, there seems to be a perception in Ireland that we are spending huge amounts per capita on health, but when we look at the figures, we are still a long way behind some countries that the Minister claims will provide a more efficient health system than our own. The OECD statistics on the per capita expenditure expressed as purchasing power parity is on page 57 of Health in Ireland: Key Trends 2012, which was published by the Minister's Department. According to the statistics, the Netherlands spent $5,000 per capita in 2010. Germany spent $4,338, France spent $3,974 and Ireland spent $3,718 per capita. That includes public and private providers. The Minister is coming in here and telling the House that he is going to create a fairer, equitable, more sustainable model, and he is following countries that are spending far more per capita-----

I am examining their systems. I am not following them. I made that clear-----

We will follow some of them, but regardless of which ones we follow, the Minister is talking about going down a route whereby we will not be able to afford the model that he is proposing.

We will stay as we are then.

We only know one thing. The Minister is asking private health insurance companies to provide a standard suite of cover which we do not yet know what it will cost or what they must be obliged to cover, and that they will compete with each other and with hospital groups or trusts and drive down costs. If the Minister asked the people who looked at these various insurance models and health systems throughout the world, he would find that that type of model does not work. That is the issue with which we have a problem. If he does not believe me, he should listen to some of the people who sat in the group advising the Government on this issue. They had major concerns about the Dutch model and other similar models in respect of maintaining and curtailing costs. We want an equitable and fair system, but at the end of the day it must be sustainable. Without that, we are going around in circles pretending that we are going to introduce a model that this State can afford, when we know before we even set out on this path that we are going to run into difficulty. They are saying in Holland and elsewhere as we speak that their systems simply do not drive down the cost of health care. It may make it equitable, but being equitable without sustainability is not a panacea for major problems.

Let us pretend that the Minister's system is in place.

(Interruptions).

Through the Chair please.

In this system, the Minister is saying that hospital groups will compete with each other to provide health care, and they will then tender to work with the private health insurance companies. If I live in Moville, Carndonagh or in south-west Cork and the Minister has set up hospital groups from Tralee to Waterford and from Letterkenny to Galway, somehow there will be competition within that health grouping. Of course there will not be competition. This is only a pretence. We simply cannot have a system whereby there will be very competitive tendering processes and delivery of health care by different groups within those areas. That simply will not happen. Even the discussion document in the White Paper provides an indication that this will not happen. The Minister is trying to look at other countries with dense populations, such as Holland, which is not much bigger than Munster but has a population of about 16 million or 17 million. The Dutch had 18 insurance companies at one stage, but they are now down to three or four and none of the problems that emanated from the Dutch system and other universal health insurance multi-payer systems has been taken on board by the Minister. That is what I find incredible.

I would not be too worried if I was the only person saying that. However, the Minister's Cabinet colleagues are saying it as well. They say it to his face in the Cabinet and they certainly say it around here, because they simply do not believe that going down this particular route will deliver a fair, equitable, sustainable health system. In fact, some of his Cabinet colleagues have gone so far as to state that it will put the State finances at risk. That is something the Minister should seriously take into account.

Rather than highlighting the difficulties with the broader principle, let us go into the detail and assume that it is implemented. Every private health insurance company will be legally obliged to carry a certain amount of capital, as they will be regulated by the Central Bank. There has not been a mention of that in the Minister's discussion document in respect of how that will bear out in terms of costs. In order to have a very competitive insurance market, insurance companies will have to make a profit before they enter the market. They will have to be guaranteed that there is some form of return on their investment. When they make profit, they will be taking that amount of money out of the health system. That is what they will be doing. Assuming they work on a margin of 10%, or even 8% on a streamlined basis, with a €16 billion spend, that is a lot of money not going into the health system and going into insurance companies. All those issues have to be factored in, because they will only operate in a system whereby they make profit and they will also have to carry capital on top of that. All these things will take funding from the health system which will be transferred to private health insurance companies. Universal health insurance will add to greater sustainability problems and will not resolve the problems of equal access based on clinical need.

A press release was issued which stated "White hails Government decision on free GP for under sixes". I presume the Minister hails it as well. Nearly a quarter of a million will benefit from the decision. Unfortunately, there has been no extra allocation for medical cards.

Thirty-seven million euro extra.

No, it was just taken from somebody else. There is no point in us pretending here that-----

Fianna Fáil is reinventing the wheel.

The idea that Fine Gael would hail a policy whereby the oldest, sickest and those with profound disabilities and significant life challenges would have a medical card taken from them at the age of six is despicable. This is happening day in, day out. There is not a Deputy in the House who has not raised the issues of discretionary medical cards and medical cards being taken from people who need them badly. We have encountered cases in which people in the latter days of their lives had medical cards taken from them. Organisations advocating on behalf of people with disabilities and illness write to us every week of the year stating their members are having their cards withdrawn. Elderly people of 85 and 90 are being dragged through review processes.

We are all for probity in the use of public funds but I just do not accept the argument that the under-sixes arrangement is not being funded by those who most need medical care and medical cards. It was a gimmick because Fine Gael set out in its original promise or commitment that the first to come into consideration would be those with a long-term illness, followed by those in the high-tech drug scheme. The proposal was to roll out the system to the rest of the population thereafter. Bearing in mind the money provided in the Estimates for the last year, it is evident that there has been no ring-fencing of extra money. If would be all fine and proper if there had been. Even last year's Estimates indicated the Government would make €666 million in cuts in the system and that there would be a probity trawl worth €108 million. There was no extra funding provided for people in receipt of medical cards; there was a reduction. What occurred represents a shameful exercise. I still cannot believe the Government sees nothing wrong with asking those most in need to give to those who may not need the medical card at all. It is transferring a service from the very sickest to individuals who may not be sick and who may have the means to pay for a general practitioner. This scheme would be wonderful, as echoed in the palaver, if it were not funded by taking medical cards from those who most need them. We feel very strongly about that.

I raised this issue last year on budget night. With great fanfare, the Government walked in here to announce this particular election stunt. If the Minister for Finance had stated, either before or after the Minister for Health spoke, that the Government was to increase the amount of money available so those with discretionary medical cards could retain them and that it was to provide extra money for universal general practitioner care for those under six, it would have been tolerated, but not the other way around. What occurred was done in an underhand, disingenuous way. Day in, day out, organisations make presentations to this effect at the Joint Committee on Health and Children and individuals consistently highlight in our clinics their plight or that of their loved ones. I am not making up this. Many organisations and individuals are saying what I suggest day in, day out. I suggest that the Minister meet some of them and listen to their problems. If he is saying there has been no change to how discretionary medical cards are awarded, he is not living in the same world in which I live. What I describe is happening day in, day out.

I raised some time ago the difficulties that general practitioners are facing. We have encountered this in recent days. There is a crisis in general practitioner services nationally. I raised this long before the general practitioners decided to highlight their concerns at very public meetings throughout the country. I am no mouthpiece for general practitioners; they are well able to fight their corner. The Minister is one himself.

How can the Deputy justify that statement?

The bottom line, however, is that there is a major problem in general practitioner practices, particularly in rural areas. There will now be a major problem in areas of socio-economic deprivation. If the Minister is saying this is not happening, I fear we are facing a greater difficulty than I imagined. The one argument on which we can all agree is that primary care represents the best way to deliver health care in communities throughout the country. It is a question of keeping people out of the acute hospital setting by delivering health care in general practitioners' practices throughout the country. This is a principle of the primary care strategy published in 2001. It has been a principle that all political parties and stakeholders have bought into. The unfortunate problem is that we are starving general practitioners' practices and primary care teams of the resources they need to ensure people can be treated in the least complex way. It is not just a question of general practitioners' practices.

More money has gone into primary care, not less. The Deputy's rhetoric is meaningless.

Could we continue with the debate?

There are more general practitioners in the GMS now - more than 250 - than there were two years ago.

I worry greatly when I listen to the Minister all the time.

The facts worry him.

Perhaps I should listen less.

What we are talking about tonight is universal health insurance and the commitments of the Government to introduce it. The difficulty the Minister has is that his colleagues are not committed to it. If they were, he would have produced more than the document entitled The Path to Universal Healthcare. He would have produced detailed proposals and the nuts and bolts of a policy. He has produced nothing other than a request to us to have a conversation about the critical issues concerning the suite of services in question. The critical question concerns what people will be entitled to. The Minister could not stand up here tonight and tell us. That is quite incredible.

I want the public to have an opportunity to feed into that.

The public should feed into it but one would have thought the Minister would have had an opinion on the matter after three years in government and numerous years in opposition highlighting it.

The Deputy's party was in government for 14 years and produced nothing. It still does not have a policy.

With regard to the effort to reduce costs or not have them escalate, about which the Minister has spoken, and the competition in the multi-payer system and multi-provider system, I cannot understand how the Minister believes that will work. The means by which it will work are very unclear in the strategy document. It is very unclear that those who provide the care - the general practitioners, nurses and consultants, for example - will address all the pertinent issues. Who will pay them and how will they be paid? How will staff earn according to their grades? Consultants who are currently working in both the public and private systems, for example, will not be able to do so at all under the system under discussion. Will such consultants be compensated by the universal health insurance system? Alternatively, will they pack up and leave for elsewhere? No thought has been put into this. This is the difficulty.

The Minister claimed he has achieved a lot in regard to the reduction of waiting lists. Last year, there was a surge in waiting lists and then they were reduced. The reduction was because the National Treatment Purchase Fund, or its current equivalent, bought many services through the private system. Therefore, it is simply not the case that the public hospital system is delivering on its own all the time.

There is a cross-utilisation of resources in the sense that the public hospital system has contracted work out to the private hospital system, and that has been happening on a continual basis. I am not saying it is a bad thing, but when people are waiting, they should be treated. However, the Minister has been saying waiting lists have reduced dramatically. They have been reduced because the Minister is contracting that work out to the private hospital providers. The idea the Minister would give himself a clap on the back as if he had almost transformed the whole system simply is wrong. There are people in the public hospital waiting system, day in, day out, and they are being transferred into private hospitals for treatment. That is what has been done for the last number of years through the National Treatment Purchase Fund and it should continue to be done until such time as we have a public hospital system that can actually deal with those long waiting lists within its own capacity.

That is the key area the Minister should be targeting for the next number of years. He must ensure people are not waiting. Whether it is treated by contracting out public or private services, people deserve to have treatment when they need it.

The Deputy should conclude.

The other area we have failed to address is one the Minister has made no mention of today. I am sure he would have come in here and applauded himself if we had seen a large drop in the number of people waiting for outpatient appointments, but there is an issue there as well.

There has been a massive drop.

If one looks at it month on month, we have difficulties. I did not see any press releases coming from the Department on that one. Overall-----

Hilarious. I will have to correct the record.

Yes, correct the record.

There has been a 95% reduction in the number of people waiting for a year or longer for outpatient appointments.

The Minister has made his point. I call Deputy Ó Caoláin.

I do not believe this discussion document sets out a fair and sustainable pathway.

The Deputy thinks he is back in a college debate. Some drop of reality would be good.

I call Deputy Ó Caoláin. I point out we will be moving on to Private Members' business at 7.30 p.m.

Therefore, I will not be able to finish today.

I am afraid that is the schedule.

That is regrettable. We will have a two-tier contribution.

In the introduction to the document we are addressing, entitled, The Path to Universal Healthcare: White Paper on Universal Health Insurance, the Minister for Health, Deputy James Reilly, on behalf of the Government, says it aspires to "a universal single-tier health service with access based on need, not income". I want to say that I personally, and we in Sinn Féin, share that aim, and that it has been the very basis of the health policy I have presented here over many years. However, we believe the model the Government has adopted is fundamentally flawed. It is a so-called free market model based on competing private, for-profit health insurance companies, and that is where we clearly part. This is the Fine Gael model which, in my view, won out in the programme for Government. This is a purely market approach, treating health care as a commodity and believing that consumers will benefit from competition, but the real beneficiaries will be the private health insurers, and they will benefit doubly. First, they will have a mass of new customers forced by Government legislation to take out policies and, second, they will benefit directly from Government payments to them on behalf of people who cannot pay private health insurance themselves.

I have said it here before and I make no apology for repeating it. We often hear the phrase: "Cut out the middleman". The Minister's, Deputy Reilly's, model of universal health insurance is cutting in the middleman. It is adding to the cost of health care because the profit margin of the private health insurance companies will inevitably push up the cost of health care. We in Sinn Féin say to cut out the middleman. This can be done by funding public health services from fair and reformed general taxation.

The Minister's plan is based ostensibly on the Dutch model, which is not working as is claimed and has actually led to the rationing of health care and to much greater medical inflation. We believe this plan will cost both the State and the citizens more than a State-provided taxation funded system. We believe it will lead to a system where private health insurance companies will ultimately determine what level of health services people receive. The private health insurance companies will become gatekeepers if this system is adopted and future Governments will be constantly trying to play catch-up with legislation and regulations.

We need a real debate and real progress on health reform. The consultation process and public debate on the best model insurance, whether State-provided or a mix, should have begun when the Government came into office three years ago. Instead, we have had a predetermined outcome as presented by this so-called White Paper. A "White Paper on financing universal health insurance" was promised early in the term of the Government and it is interesting that, at some stage, the word "financing" was dropped from the title. That was the title and it is no longer there.

Sure enough, there is precious little in this White Paper about the financing of universal health insurance and, in particular, what it will cost individuals and families. It has taken over three years to produce a White Paper with a truncated and narrow consultation process with, again, a predetermined outcome. It is both very late and, as I have already said, half-baked. What is compulsory health insurance going to cost people who have neither a medical card nor private health insurance at present? That key question is not answered in this document. Crucially, the document does not describe the basket of care that will be provided under universal health insurance, which a consultation process is supposedly going to help determine. This immediately raises the question of what conditions, syndromes and needs will not be covered, as will be the case. We are being presented with a consultation process with a predetermined outcome and a deadline of 28 May, clashing directly with the local and European elections now swirling about us.

Sinn Féin wants to see universal public health care based on medical need and funded from fair and reformed general taxation. On this basis, we will be participating in the consultation and the debate, and we will make our own party submission. I urge others listening to and watching this debate today also to participate as I believe that is critically important. We are calling for an open debate that will examine all options for health care reform and funding, not just the option presented by this White Paper.

Even in the very unlikely event that this plan is delivered on schedule, we will not see it implemented until 2019. What happens in the meantime? Let us for a moment look at what is happening now. We have ongoing cuts year on year which have caused huge damage in our health services. To give just one example, with a growing and aging population, we cannot possibly sustain safe hospital services when over 5,200 nursing posts, or 13.5% of the total, have been cut since 2010. As has been highlighted in the Private Member's motion this week, only one in every three people with life-threatening conditions were responded to by an ambulance service within the target time last year.

That has been proven to be untrue.

I repeat it. We all accept that health care is expensive and has to be paid for. The question is how to pay for it in a way that ensures the best possible health care for all who need it and which does so with the best achievable value for money. The Government is proposing to bring in universal health insurance, with the State subsidising those who cannot afford to pay insurance premiums. The State will still have a huge regulatory, managerial and funding role. Why, then, give private, for-profit insurance companies such a central place in the system? What contribution will they make? They are funded by the consumers who buy their products. The insurance companies, on behalf of policyholders, will buy services from private or public hospitals or other service providers, and they will have to make a substantial profit in the process.

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