Topical Issue Debate

Hospital Services

Deputy Paudie Coffey

I wish to raise what has been a topical issue for many years in the Waterford and south east region, the availability of around-the-clock, seven days a week invasive cardiology services at Waterford Regional Hospital which will soon become Waterford University Hospital. I acknowledge the great progress made with regard to the provision for the people of the south east of essential emergency services for invasive cardiology treatment in the event of a heart attack. The region has a population of almost 500,000 and in the event of a critical heart attack, Waterford University Hospital, as it will be known in the future, is the closest location for invasive treatment. The cath lab unit at Waterford Regional Hospital was opened in 2008 and at that stage it was open for two days a week but currently it is open five days a week from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. The concern is that in the event of a person in the south east region suffering a heart attack outside of those hours, for example, in the evening or at weekends, these vital services are not available. There is much talk about equality in politics and in society but I contend that there needs to be equality in access to health services for citizens living in all parts of the country. Those living in Dublin, Cork or Galway will have 24-seven access to these services but those living in Waterford or in the south east region do not have after-hours access to these vital services.

I call on the Government and I ask the Minister of State for reassurances about the commitments made that this regional service would be retained. There was much concern when the reconfiguration of hospital services was announced some time ago. Commitments were made that regional services such as this would be retained at Waterford hospital. I am seeking reassurances that we are moving along and that a genuine effort is being made by the HSE, the Government and by the Department of Health, to deliver this vital service to ensure equality of access to health services for citizens in the south east. What is needed is a second cath lab, additional consultants and supporting staff. I am hopeful the Minister of State will be able to respond positively to my request as I carry this message from Waterford and the south east region from people who are genuinely concerned and who want this equal access to vital services.

Minister of State at the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport (Deputy Alan Kelly)

On behalf of the Minister for Health, I thank the Deputy for raising this issue and affording me, on behalf of the Minister, an opportunity to respond.

In the context of the implementation of hospital groups the range of services currently available in Waterford Regional Hospital, including coronary care, will be retained and enhanced. The hospital's cardiology department provides the regional service for 500,000 people and offers a comprehensive range of invasive and non-invasive diagnostic services. Deputies will acknowledge that considerable achievements have been made since the Waterford Regional Hospital cardiology interventional suite opened in May 2008 on a two-day per week basis. In October 2009, the operation of the service was extended to five days per week and incorporated a dedicated six-bed cardiac day ward.

The regional cardiac catheterisation laboratory in Waterford Regional Hospital provides equal access to services from the four acute hospitals in the region. Since its establishment, the laboratory has provided access to cardiac angiography and complex cardiac cases for 8,255 patients and 11,890 procedures. These patients would otherwise have had to travel to either Cork or Dublin to receive services.

In 2013, 1,709 patients were seen and 2,404 procedures undertaken. Patients presenting with an acute myocardial infarction to Waterford Regional Hospital can now receive emergency percutaneous coronary artery intervention, PCI, to open the blocked artery immediately and limit the damage to the heart muscle.

Since October 2012, the Waterford Regional Hospital interventional suite has been identified as the designated primary percutaneous coronary intervention centre as part of the national acute coronary syndrome programme covering counties Waterford, Kilkenny and Wexford and south County Tipperary. The Minister understands the hospital intends to develop a fourth consultant post as part of its operational plan for 2015. Furthermore, a business case to extend the opening hours of the cardiac catheterisation laboratory is being prepared by the hospital with a view to providing primary percutaneous coronary artery intervention on a 24-7 basis and developing a second cardiac catheterisation laboratory.

The establishment of hospital groups is a key building block in delivering on the programme for Government commitment to fundamentally reform the health service and will provide the optimum configuration for hospital services to deliver high quality, safe patient care in a cost-effective manner. Waterford Regional Hospital, as a key hospital in the south-south west hospital group, will have significant finks to the group's academic partner, University College Cork, which will provide opportunities for sharing of experiences and expertise as well as furthering the research agenda.

Deputy Paudie Coffey

I thank the Minister of Health for providing reassurance to people in the south east region that the current services at Waterford Regional Hospital will be retained and enhanced. I also note the statement that since October 2012, "the Waterford Regional Hospital interventional suite has been identified as the designated primary percutaneous coronary intervention centre as part of the national acute coronary syndrome programme covering counties Waterford, Kilkenny and Wexford and south County Tipperary".

According to cardiologists, in the event of a heart attack, international best practice shows that angioplasty is the most effective treatment as it significantly reduces mortality, decreases shock, lowers the risk of stroke and gives a better, longer term outcome. However, this intervention must be delivered within 90 minutes of a heart attack occurring. This is an issue for the south east region and people living in counties Kilkenny, Wexford, Carlow and south Tipperary who must have access to these vital services at Waterford Regional Hospital. I welcome the statement committing the Government, over time, to deliver a 24-7 cardiology service at the hospital.

Deputy Alan Kelly

I assure the Deputy that Waterford Regional Hospital intends to develop a fourth consultant post as part of its operational plan for 2015. The business case for extending opening hours is being prepared for the hospital, with a view to meeting the commitment to provide a 24-7 service. I look forward to that development.

Medicinal Products Availability

Deputy Billy Kelleher

Xolair is a medication for the treatment of severe allergic asthma. The product was licensed for use in 2005 but is not reimbursable under any Government schemes. This means it is primarily a matter for hospital pharmacists to decide whether to dispense Xolair to people who have allergic asthma. All available scientific evidence and analysis shows that the medication gives a certain cohort of people great relief from allergic asthma. The current difficulty in respect of dispensation of Xolair is that its availability is determined by geographical location and the budget available to hospital pharmacies.

It is estimated that 450 people who suffer from allergic asthma are suitable for treatment using Xolair. If this medicine were prescribed to these individuals, it could have a life-changing impact. Ms Breda Flood, a board member of the Asthma Society of Ireland, stated the following about her treatment using Xolair:

After many years of severe asthma I struggled in everything I did. I was hospitalised on numerous occasions and had persistent infections, coughing and difficulties breathing. I have been on Xolair for a year now. After 4 months I saw an improvement and now after a year on the medication I cannot tell you how much this has changed my life and my family's life.

I can now go to bed and sleep through the night without having to take my inhaler during the night. I can walk without coughing and I can talk without coughing. Every day I get up I feel better. Xolair has given me a new lease of life and it has taken years off me. The improvement to the quality of my life is so great, it is impossible to quantify.

Ms Flood's experience indicates that Xolair should be made available to all patients for whom it is deemed a suitable treatment. Xolair is not available to patients in Cork University Hospital because the pharmacy budget is inadequate.

Speaking earlier about the geographical spread of discretionary cards, the Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Alex White, stated variations in the way in which medical cards are assessed and granted are not right. The same logic applies in this context. Decisions on the dispensation of Xolair are based on geographical location, which means patients in some hospitals do not have any difficulty obtaining the drug, while patients in other hospitals, including Cork University Hospital, do not have access to it. I ask the Minister of State to raise the matter with the Minister whom I accept is detained in the Seanad.

Novartis, the company which manufactures Xolair, has agreed to reimburse hospitals in cases where the drug is found to be ineffectual. This is a fair offer as it will mean no costs will accrue to the State where the treatment does not work. I wish more companies would adopt the type of positive attitude shown by Novartis. I hope the Minister of State will be able to provide a positive response to the many people who suffer from allergic asthma.

Deputy Alan Kelly

On behalf of the Minister for Health, I thank the Deputy for raising this important issue. I am aware of the challenges people with asthma face in managing their condition and fully acknowledge the need for the provision of appropriate services for all asthma patients.

The treatment of asthma is one of the ten chronic diseases identified by the Health Service Executive as priorities for intervention. Clinically, the management of asthma through elective treatment is more effective than emergency treatment. The vision of the national asthma programme is that every person with asthma should reach their maximum health and quality of life potential through the prevention, early detection and effective treatment of his or her asthma. The key aims of the programme are to reduce asthma mortality by 90% in ten years; reduce general practitioner out-of-hours visits due to asthma by 10% or 5,000 over three years; reduce emergency department visits due to asthma by 10% or 2,000 over three years; and reduce asthma bed days by 10% per year over three years.

Each hospital or hospital group must make its own decisions regarding the provision of expensive or complex treatment. Xolair is a very expensive drug, costing on average between €12,000 and €15,000 per annum and is not a suitable treatment for all patients. Xolair treatment entails subcutaneous administration in an infusion centre. Treatment requires clinical supervision during and after administration, because of the possibility of adverse outcomes, as for many complex drugs, in a small percentage of cases. The south-south west hospital group supports the use of Xolair as part of the treatment pathway for appropriate patients with severe asthma. Treatment with Xolair has been provided within the group through the Mercy, Waterford and south Tipperary hospitals. Action plans in terms of direct patient treatment are being progressed in Cork University Hospital. The Minister for Health is committed to providing the best possible health service and will continue to work with the HSE to ensure the best possible outcomes are achieved for asthma patients.

There is no doubt that Xolair has a significant impact in the treatment of certain patients, depending on clinical circumstances and prognosis. However, not every hospital is in a position to meet the conditions attached to supervising use of the drug. I understand this issue is being addressed in Cork University Hospital. Given the size of the hospital, I hope some progress will be made in this regard in the near future.

Deputy Billy Kelleher

The purpose of the national asthma programme is to ensure that asthma sufferers do not have to present at emergency departments when they have an asthma attack. In any one year, 25,000 people will present at hospital with an asthma attack. Any treatment that can prevent this is of immediate benefit to the patient, as well as reducing costs for the State. Novartis, which manufactures Xolair, has agreed to reimburse hospitals in cases where the drug is found to be ineffectual. Coupled with that would be the cost savings for emergency departments.

I hope the use of this treatment at Cork University Hospital will be looked upon favourably. We all accept Xolair needs clinical supervision when being administered because it is a subcutaneous implant. I hope, however, the Minister of State will convey to the Minister for Health that this treatment should be examined with a certain urgency and that finance would be made available for it. There should be some assessment of the number who will benefit from this treatment, the costs that would incur and the savings that would be made by reduced numbers presenting at emergency departments due to asthma attacks.

Deputy Alan Kelly

I will convey that to the Minister for Health. Elective treatment is better than an asthma attack sufferer presenting at an emergency department. It is really just a process to ensure that Cork University Hospital can facilitate such a treatment. I hope it can be looked upon positively once the conditionality is established. The fact Novartis is willing to reimburse for ineffective treatments is also helpful. I will convey all of this to the Minister for Health.

Taxi Regulations

Deputy Patrick O'Donovan

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting the matter of the industry knowledge test for small public service vehicles for discussion. I regret I have had to raise it as a Topical Issues matter but I have already raised it umpteen times through parliamentary questions, as well as at the Oireachtas transport committee, but the replies have been wholly unsatisfactory. This is a significant issue, particularly in rural areas, as many applying for SPSV licences fail the knowledge test. The knowledge test does not take into consideration where the applicant hopes to operate the licence. Instead, it takes into account a notional area of each county.

If one comes from a county the size of Cork, one will have the misfortune of having a high chance of failing the knowledge test even before sitting it. For example, an applicant from Bantry, County Cork, could be faced with the question, “On which street in Mitchelstown, County Cork, is the post office?” An applicant from Kilbeheny, County Limerick, two miles over the road from Mitchelstown, will not be asked that question when doing the Limerick knowledge test even though he or she will be operating in an area that could encompass Kilbeheny, Cahir, County Tipperary, and Mitchelstown.

The National Transport Authority, NTA, fails to recognise the taxi industry knowledge tests bear no resemblance to the areas they are expected to cover. When I have raised this several times at the Oireachtas transport committee, I have used the example of a person applying for a test in Shannon Banks, County Clare. This is essentially a suburb of Limerick city and the applicant would be carrying out most work there. However, will the knowledge test ask the applicant about Corbally, Roches Street, Ballycummin, Raheen or Dooradoyle? No, it will ask about Lisdoonvarna, Kilrush and Kilkee, bearing no resemblance to the area in which the SPSV will cover.

Accordingly, in 2012, in Cork, 225 sat the knowledge test with 186, 82%, failing it. In Limerick, 83 sat the test and 60, 72%, failed it. In Mayo, 19 sat the test but 78% failed it. In Tipperary, 21 people sat the test but 72% of them failed. In the Minister of State’s area of Killaloe, County Clare, and Ballina, County Tipperary, an applicant would be expected to know about places from where Deputy Mattie McGrath comes, down in the Knockmealdown Mountains.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

We know our way around.

Deputy Patrick O'Donovan

It might be far more important for an applicant from the Minister of State’s area to know about O’Brien’s Bridge or Ardnacrusha, County Clare, or Montpelier, County Limerick, than it would be to know about places in south Tipperary that he or she will never service.

There is a hands-over-the-ears mentality in the NTA. It does not understand there are jobs being put at stake. When I raised this with the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport, it replied that where there is a glaring lack of hackney drivers in rural areas, it will set up a new licence rather than addressing the fact that the knowledge test is designed for people to fail, particularly if one comes from a large county or a peripheral area like I do in west Limerick. God help the applicant in Athea, Glin or Abbeyfeale trying to pass the Limerick knowledge test. One of the questions on the test, which I have seen, asks on what street in Doon, County Limerick, is the post office. No one from Abbeyfeale will know that.

Deputy Billy Kelleher

That post office there is closed now.

Deputy Patrick O'Donovan

Invariably the test is designed for failure. I accept a rural hackney licence has been brought in but the reason for that is because the NTA will simply not change the knowledge test to allow a person to be tested on the area in which they cover rather than the overall county from which they come.

Deputy Alan Kelly

The regulation of the SPSV industry, including the operation of the area knowledge test and SPSV skills development programme, is a matter for the NTA under the provisions of the Taxi Regulation Act 2013. My role relates to the overall policy for the sector. There have been many changes to the SPSV policy framework in recent years through the implementation of the recommendations of the taxi regulation review report 2011 and the introduction of the Taxi Regulation Act 2013. These initiatives provide a foundation for a better quality taxi industry.

The SPSV entry test is designed to confirm the candidates understanding of the SPSV regulations, industry and consumer service standards, as well as knowledge of the county in which the candidate intends to operate. The test includes two modules: the industry knowledge module and the area knowledge module. Both must be passed before an application can be granted by An Garda Síochána.

The area knowledge module consists of 36 questions in the SPSV entry test. Each county in the State comprises a separate area for the purposes of SPSV driver licensing. In the case of taxi drivers, the taxi driver can only stand or ply for hire in a county in which he or she is authorised to operate. For recent and new entrants to the SPSV industry, that authorisation means successfully completing the area knowledge test related to the particular county. Within a county, the candidate may be asked questions on various locations, routes in the county or key destinations immediately adjoining the county boundary. This reflects the fact that, if successful, the licenceholder will be entitled to provide taxi services at any location in that county.

The rationale for the area knowledge module of the SPSV entry test is the establishment of a suitable standard of area knowledge for drivers of small public service vehicles in order to ensure an appropriate quality of service to passengers. This is an approach used in many jurisdictions throughout the world, not only in Ireland.

For many years, the area authorisation arrangements have been based on the county system, with a specific area knowledge test for each county in Ireland. For an applicant intending to operate a taxi, he or she is then required to place his or her authorised county designation on his or her roof sign. It would be possible to subdivide county designations to smaller geographic areas and to tailor area knowledge tests to relate to those smaller area designations. However, there are issues that arise with such an approach. Taxis are only allowed to stand at ranks or pick up on-street in areas in respect of which they are authorised under their licences. For all recent entrants to the industry, that has meant passing the relevant area knowledge test.

While not claiming that the county system is perfect - know it is not - it has the benefit of simplicity and clarity. Alternative systems could prove to provide even more issues. The boundary of a county is a recognisable concept that is understood by everybody. Operating a system of multiple areas within a county creates the challenge of defining clearly the area authorised in each case and making that clearly and intuitively understandable. While defining boundaries based on maps can be developed, it is difficult to make this easily understandable in a simple intuitive way, and to communicate that clearly on the vehicle.

A further concern would arise in regard to enforcement issues. Arising from the issue of clarity of operational areas, the enforcement of a subdivided area system would become much more complex and difficult than it is at present. The simplicity of finding a person standing for hire in a taxi in county A when he or she only has an authorisation for county B would be removed. Clarity would need to be obtained by the relevant Garda or compliance officer suspecting this as to the actual area designation for which the driver is authorised - it would no longer be governed by the simple, definable county boundaries. It is likely to require map-based information to fully inform of the county subdivision areas. For a Garda involved in small public service vehicle prosecutions on an infrequent intermittent basis, this lack of simplicity and clarity will be a disincentive to detection and prosecution.

There would also be cost implications in having tests for smaller areas. Currently the cost of an area knowledge test is €90 per test, reflecting the cost to the National Transport Authority of carrying out the test. If successfully passed, it authorises the successful person to stand or ply for hire at any location within the county of authorisation. As identified earlier, many taxi operators are unlikely to wish to pick up passengers on-street at several locations in a county and, under the suggested alternative system, would have to pay and take several additional area knowledge tests to achieve this, thereby increasing their costs.

While I acknowledge that the current area knowledge test has limitations, it represents a reasonable mechanism to establish an appropriate standard of geographic knowledge to be attained by drivers of small public service vehicles. The sub-division of the current county structure into smaller zones would undoubtedly make it easier to pass the revised and more localised test. However, it has several disadvantages associated with it, including enforcement challenges, lack of clarity on area knowledge, signage for taxis, cost burden and potential passenger perception issues. Overall, it is considered that the division of operational areas into a sub-county structure would create significant difficulties which would greatly out-weigh the benefits of such an approach.

Deputy Patrick O'Donovan

I accept there needs to be a knowledge test and I should have said so at the outset. There needs to be a knowledge test and there needs to be standards. I also accept that the Minister of State's overall role is in policy.

One of the policy statements that could be made by the Department is that the test the NTA is imposing should reflect the area in which the person is expected to service. I go back to the person in Abbeyfeale who is applying for a licence. Half of his work could be essentially in County Kerry. I refer primarily to hackney drivers, as opposed to taxi-drivers, because there is no rank in County Limerick. There is nowhere for a taxi to stand in the county of Limerick. That person, as the matter currently stands, should tell a fare at Feale's Bridge to get out of the car as he or she cannot take him or her over the border into County Kerry. That is not living in the real world. The reality is these drivers have the knowledge of places along the Kerry border, such as Knocknagoshel, Brosna, Finuge, because that is the area in which they operate.

The NTA has also given me this lazy answer at the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Transport and Communications. It states essentially that the NTA recognises there is a problem and up to 82% of applicants will not pass in a rural county. For instance, in a county such as Mayo, I wish good luck to one who is misfortunate enough to be out in Erris and hoping to apply for a taxi licence because he or she will never be able to pass the test as one is expected to know about places around Knock, Claremorris and Ballyhaunis. It is designed for the person to fail. In the case of my county, well over half of the questions relate to Limerick city, where a person will probably never serve because there are taxi ranks in place and hackney drivers will not get calls there. What the NTA has given the Minister of State by way of a response is what I have been getting by way of information at the committee for the past two years. They want to wash their hands of it and keep the current system that enforces a failure rate of upwards of 80% and does not recognise that in peripheral areas and county boundaries, hackney drivers cross into counties such as Kerry and Cork. They do not tell their fare at Rockchapel that they have to get out because they cannot drive over the border because their knowledge test only applies to Limerick. This is ridiculous. It bears no resemblance to what is happening on the ground.

I implore Deputy Kelly, as the Minister of State responsible for policy, to tell the NTA it is the policy of the Government that the knowledge test should reflect the area in which the person services, not a notional area called the county. If the latter is the case, the bigger the county, the greater the likelihood of one failing it. Deputy Kelly's county, like mine, is a case in point.

Deputy Alan Kelly

First, the NTA does not write my speeches. Second, the issue in regard to the failure rate is not only one for rural counties.

Third, one need not drop anyone at any border because Ireland operates as a full taxi-meter country. The issue in that regard is the area where a taxi or hackney driver can ply for hire. From an administration point of view, for the enforcement, especially by the gardaí and enforcement officers, we must have a clearly identifiable way of knowing whether, for example, taxi-drivers from Dublin are operating in these areas and effectively taking the food out of the mouths of those in for example, County Galway - at, say, the Galway races - or in any other location.

There was an issue down through the years where there were many drivers getting licences. I inherited a sector where, as I have stated on many occasions, there were drivers who got licences who simply should not have because the test was not good enough. In fact, the test was very weak. I cannot believe some of the drivers who I travel with passed this test. I do not know how they did so and I suppose at this stage I am not sure whether I will ever find out. How some drivers, particularly operating taxis in Dublin, got past an area knowledge test is beyond me. I wanted to change that and I have ensured that it is changed.

Given what I outlined earlier, any system one creates like this cannot be perfect but there are a number of issues here. For starters, we must have some form of administration unit that works and that is recognisable by the Garda so that there can be fair play where licence holders operate in a certain district, and that is where we know they can ply for hire even though it is a full taxi-meter country.

Second, in regard to the specific test, in certain counties where there are not enough taxis and hackneys, I have instructed the NTA to look at slightly changing the test to make it a little easier, potentially where there is market failure. They are always looking at the test but there are significant administrative issues which I have outlined and we must work closely with the Garda to ensure gardaí are in a position to do their job.

Finally, as Deputy O'Donovan stated, there is an alternative licence put in place. It is a good licence. It is a local area licence which by-passes many of the issues about which we spoke. To date, unfortunately, not one person in the Deputy's county has applied for one. I would welcome if persons would apply for those licences because within the villages in which Deputy O'Donovan and I operate, such licences will be welcome.

Haulage Industry Regulation

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I hope I get a better response from the Minister than when the previous effort was made.

Acting Chairman (Deputy Olivia Mitchell)

Deputy Mattie McGrath would need to run it.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I am dealing with it now. It depends. This is the bureaucracy today, that one cannot have common sense prevail.

The Members of the House here and the Minister of State will be acutely aware of the financial strain commercial vehicle road tax is placing on Irish haulage operators. The introduction of the lorry road user levy, LRUL, in Northern Ireland has compounded the difficulties. Unless road tax in southern Ireland is overhauled as a matter of urgency, countless jobs will be lost.

I ask the Minister of State to examine this. He must know as well as I do that the playing field was not level even before this levy was introduced in Northern Ireland. The tax for a commercial lorry in this jurisdiction, which is paid to the county council or the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, is €3,500. The equivalent rate on the other side of the Border is €640. It is six times greater here. I cannot understand it for the life of me. A charge of €12 per trip is now being added. One could have to make several trips in a single day if one is going to and from Donegal. One would be straddling the Border as one goes up and down. It is a punitive tax on an industry that is already struggling.

We have a wonderful road haulage industry, in the main. In recent years, it has worked with the Road Safety Authority, the National Roads Authority, the Department and everybody else to streamline everything and bring it properly under the legal realm as it should be. It seems that this charge is what it is getting in return. It has been pleading for years - with this Government and with its predecessor, from which the Minister of State inherited this problem - for the introduction of a pay as you go road tax system like that used in other European countries. If hauliers could pay road tax in instalments, it would be some effort. Many hauliers I know are parked up for nine months of the year. They might get one or two days of work each week, but they still have to pay a punitive rate of tax. As a result of the signing of the Good Friday Agreement, many cross-Border committees and organisations are working together. In that context, it beggars belief that some kind of arrangement cannot be reached with the Northern Ireland authorities, if not the authorities in the UK as a whole, to ensure our people are not blindfolded. We would not place restrictors on the engines of their lorries to prevent them from going more than 15 mph. Requiring them to pay this punitive tax will have the exact same impact.

We are supposed to be in Europe as good Europeans, but we get kicked by the Europeans all the time with our finances and everything else. I do not believe this charge prevails in other parts of Europe. We implement things like this that are not implemented in other countries. It is only a land border, as we know. There is no sea. There is nothing between us when we drive up and down. I know it intimately. I know the difficulties they have. The punitive system of tax for commercial vehicles must be changed anyway. Countless hauliers I know have gone out of business in recent years, having tried their best to hang on. When hauliers get into trouble, Revenue is the most ferocious creditor they have to deal with. They get no hearing at all from the State. All they get is anguish. They are subjected to all kinds of checks from the traffic corps. I am fine with that. They try to keep their lorries up to the requisite standard for road safety. This is a punitive taxation system. I do not know what Ministers or senior officials allowed this levy to be passed into law without some kind of quid pro quo or some kind of arrangement for the hauliers here. We do not have jurisdiction up there, obviously. Are we asleep at the wheel? It is just madness to allow this infrastructure, which is already struggling, to be hit in such a punitive way.

I suggest that business and foreign direct investment will be lost when people start to encounter more expense in transporting goods north and south - to and from Larne, or from Donegal down to Dublin. People will not come in here because of the costs. The costs faced by road hauliers are already savage. I refer to the cost of fuel like white diesel, for example, or to the cost of road tax. Trucks have to be maintained and upgraded to an exceptionally high standard to keep them on the road. There are some very valuable haulage companies in my home county. They are on their knees. They are bewildered at the lack of engagement by the Ministers for the Environment, Community and Local Government and Transport, Tourism and Sport in this instance. We have been allowed to sleepwalk into this situation. They got adequate notice from many Members of this House and the Irish Road Haulage Association. They should have been better prepared. Some effort should have been made. It should be made now, even at the 11.9th hour.

Deputy Alan Kelly

As the Deputy may be aware, the current rules on road user charges for heavy goods vehicles are set out in the 1999 Eurovignette directive on charging HGVs for the use of infrastructure. The directive sets out an EU framework for the levying of road charges on HGVs. It authorises member states, if they so wish, to levy user charges. Time-based charges can be imposed per day, week or year, and distance-based charges can be levied in the same way as road tolls. The objective of this framework is to encourage member states to use taxation and transport infrastructure charging in the most effective and fair manner to promote the user pays and polluter pays principles, which are enshrined in various EU treaties. Road charging ensures users contribute to the costs of maintaining the infrastructure. It can also be a source of revenue to help to develop new infrastructure and cleaner and more efficient modes of transport.

The UK Government announced plans to introduce a HGV road user charging scheme on 25 January 2012. At that time, the UK authorities pointed out that no charges were paid for any of the approximately 1.5 million trips to the UK made by foreign-registered HGVs each year. The object of the new levy is to provide that all HGVs, regardless of origin, that use UK roads will contribute to their cost. The levy, which was introduced by the HGV Road User Levy Act 2013, came into effect on 1 April last. The Deputy will know that while the levy applies to roads in Northern Ireland, the decision to introduce it rests with central government in the UK.

The Irish Government accepts that the UK Government is within its rights under EU legislation to introduce the levy. We have made representations to the UK authorities on numerous occasions. We have held a number of discussions with them with the aim of having certain significant sections of the Northern Ireland roads infrastructure treated as a special circumstance and exempted from the levy. As it is not possible under EU law to have an exemption that applies to just one member state, such an exemption would apply to all road users. Approximately 7 km of roads that criss-cross the Border between Northern Ireland and the Republic have been exempted from the levy to date. Despite robust representations on our part, the UK Minister has indicated in recent correspondence that he is not inclined to make provision for the exemption of additional Northern Ireland roads. The Irish Government is very unhappy with this position. The Minister, Deputy Varadkar, who is responsible for this area, intends to ask the UK Minister to reconsider his decision. If we are to achieve a successful resolution to this issue, we need unity of purpose between the Irish Government and the Northern Ireland Executive. We are supported in this endeavour by our colleague, Mark Durkan, who is the Northern Ireland Minister of the Environment.

The Deputy might be aware that a working group has been established to examine the feasibility of introducing a similar pay as you go road tax scheme for HGVs in Ireland. There is a precedent for this in Europe. The Eurovignette directive allows a common road charging regime to be established where only one charge is applied and where those paying can use roads in a number of different countries. We should look to this example in seeking to establish a common road charging regime between the UK and Ireland. While there are many issues surrounding this - for example, it requires the support of the UK Government - a common regime could have some merit in light of our unique circumstances. The Minister, Deputy Varadkar, and his officials have begun initial discussions with their UK counterparts on this potential long-term solution. A common regime would be of more benefit to hauliers on either side of the Border than two different regimes that impose significant regulatory burdens on them.

The new levy imposes additional operating costs on Irish hauliers using Northern Ireland and UK roads. The prospect has been raised of some Irish haulage operators relocating their business to other jurisdictions, possibly taking associated jobs with them. There is no evidence that a significant number of operators are electing to do this. Operators who are willing to deal with the costs and regulatory requirements of becoming established and licensed in another jurisdiction are free to relocate if they wish to do so. Those who do will be subject to the cabotage regulations that apply to out-of-State operators with regard to their transport operations in Ireland, which will consequently be greatly restricted by regulations.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

The Minister of State's reply is disappointing. I know that efforts are being made. This charge is totally nonsensical. It was introduced on 1 April, which is April fools' day. I am personal friends with many hauliers, some of whom started off with the ass and box, a horse and car or a small Thames truck. A man in his 70s, Johnny Slattery, who is based in my own area outside Tipperary town, has expanded his business and now employs 90 people. People like him are frustrated because all they want to do is work, create and generate business, employ people and comply with all the regulations. These outstanding companies, which provide employment and pay huge taxes, are having to put up with this issue. As I said earlier, it is like being blindfolded or having a restrictor put on the engine that does not allow the truck to travel at more than 20 mph. It is the same thing. We just cannot compete. I know that younger men with younger families will relocate. Some of them have done so already. In England and some other European countries, one can buy one's tax for the day, pay for the lorry and do a day's work. In this country, one has to pay for 12 months. It is totally nonsensical. I have to say that the lunatics are running the asylum on this one.

We have derogations and so on from certain European charters. I am sick to the teeth of European charters because they are useless. The very same thing is happening with regard to the introduction of calendar farming for slurry spreading. They can spread it beside a railing in Northern Ireland, but we cannot spread it in the South. It is total and patent nonsense. I found out recently that successive Irish Governments, the IFA and others, have not even looked for a derogation on that. We are great at implementing European directives. We are even better at putting directives on top of them and adding more to them to keep all our mandarins in the Departments busy. It is time some of these mandarins were sent out on the road. They should go out to the haulage companies to see how hard it is for them to make a living while paying for diesel and maintenance, the wages, the VAT, the PRSI and the insurance. They are barely existing as they try to survive this dark recession.

It is time we took more robust action to defend our ratepayers and business people instead of smothering and choking them with European directives, fuel levies, carbon taxes and bureaucracy. It is happening across the board. It is patent nonsense and we are not fit to be here if we cannot change it.

Deputy Alan Kelly

I thank the Deputy, my fellow Tipperary man, for the eloquent speech on many different topics. We all accept we are in a difficult situation from a geographical perspective, given what the UK Government has planned and is doing. We acknowledge the need for a common road charging regime to be established, where only one charge is applied but persons paying can use roads in a number of different countries. While we are looking to establish a common road charging regime between the UK and Ireland, several groups must come to the table, including the UK Government.

Everything is being done to help the hauliers on the issue. I have met the hauliers in our county and have brought them here to meet the departmental officials and discuss this and other issues. I know the employment they bring and the SME nature of what they do. I have relations in the business and know exactly what they are going through and the difficulties. It needs a collective approach and everything is being done. We need to reach a point with the UK Government where we can create a regime which creates a form of equality; otherwise, there will be a race to the bottom regarding these charges, which would be unacceptable.

As a former MEP the Deputy referred to several regulations and the red tape which results from them. The Deputy was a member of the Government that brought in most of the regulations and ensured, in some cases, that the most extreme interpretations of these regulations were implemented.

Dáil Éireann debate - Wednesday, 14 May 2014