Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 14 May 2014

Vol. 841 No. 2

Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2014: Second Stage (Resumed)

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Deputy James Bannon

One of the most frequent queries raised with me is the condition of some privately rented properties and the failure of some landlords to provide adequate storage facilities for tenants to store their household rubbish. This issue needs to be addressed and it is vital that we have an enforcement of standards regulating the private rental sector to combat the bad conditions in these privately rented properties.

Access to affordable housing should be a basic right of everyone. We must remember that homelessness is not just an urban issue, but a rural reality. I have discussed with the Minister of State the huge numbers on the waiting list in my village. There are no suitable houses for tenants and approximately 28 people are on the waiting list in the small village of Legan in County Longford. I know she is working on addressing the issue.

We are moving in the right direction and have moved away from the heavy dependence on emergency accommodation in hostels and bed and breakfasts. Agreement was also reached with NAMA to make more than 2,000 properties available for the purpose of social housing through leasing arrangements with local authorities and housing associations.

When the crash came and home prices fell, a huge amount of financial folly was exposed. As the saying goes, one only learns who has been swimming naked when the tide goes out. There were far too many assumptions and speculation which has left us with far too many ugly sights in some parts of the country. The scourge of ghost estates and the plentiful supply of cheap housing must be addressed. Whatever the cause or causes, the numerous ghost estates in the midlands have been well documented on RTE programmes and in the local papers. They are a proof of the excesses of the Celtic tiger years, the greed of some developers and poor planning.

This morning, when speaking during Leaders' Questions, the Taoiseach stated that we are building 25,000 new houses every year. The Government should reconsider the decentralisation of State services and the headquarters of such offices as the medical card review office and SUSI to the midlands where there is a plentiful supply of cheap housing. There is an urgent need to diversify. Balanced regional development is required in the interest of economic development and more healthy lifestyles for our people.

It is obvious that the link between property demand and supply was stretched to a totally unrealistic length. The recession and reducing immigration broke the fragile chain. Population growth failed to meet the number of estates that were developed and unemployment has changed the rural and urban profile. As unemployment figures rose, workers gravitated towards urban centres in search of jobs.

Whether we want more than 600 ghost estates across the country is not the issue. We have them and we have to do something with them. Unless positive action is taken, these estates will become the slums of 21st century Ireland to the detriment of the rural landscape. It is important to prioritise innovative ways of selling off properties in ghost estates. Incentives such as tax concessions should be given to returning emigrants, many of whom would be happy to be able to come back to their roots. This would be a win-win situation as money would be spent locally in shops, restaurants and pubs which would be of huge help to the local economy. The same applies to those who wish to move from cities to rural areas, particularly those of retirement age. This needs to be addressed.

Does the Minister of State have any proposals to introduce a tenant purchase scheme? It is important to sell off some of our housing stock. The old tenant purchase scheme expired some time ago and I would welcome the introduction of a new scheme as soon as possible.

Deputy Arthur Spring

I agree with the previous speaker on the tenant purchase scheme. I encourage the Minister of State and the Department to examine the idea of local authorities being in a position to provide finance again. As we all know, with the onerous regulations put upon financial institutions one needs a secure cash flow and a substantial deposit whereas in a tenant purchase scheme, the loan to value ratio of the house one is buying and the conditions are advantageous and it is less speculative by nature. The best place for many of these people to get loans is from the local authority rather than from a financial institution.

I also encourage the Minister of State to consider a public-private partnership whereby funding could come from credit unions which would not provide direct mortgages but might have money on deposit which they could give at a preferable rate to local authorities, thereby servicing the same clients. This idea should be considered. I have spoken to some members of the credit union movement who see validity in it. On Monday, the Minister of State was good enough to visit Tralee, the town I come from, with regard to the regeneration programme. There is €100 million on deposit in the town at present and the interest rates are low. If it were State guaranteed, it would be off-balance-sheet for the Government and could provide the possibility of people purchasing houses. The money could be used for the housing list. The same town has a waiting list of approximately 2,000 people.

Most of the people on the housing list are in receipt of rent allowance. This is a big bugbear of mine. I was the chair of the housing strategic policy committee on Kerry County Council from 2009 until I was elected to this House. One of my observations and ideas is that landlords have had the benefit of the most secure form of tenant known to any financial institution and that is the State. They have seen exponential increases, particularly in the Dublin area, in the value of their properties over the past while. I am of the opinion that traditionally tenants in Ireland, particularly in the private sector, have never been provided with the level of tenure and security which is essential for their well-being, particularly those with families. This is achieved throughout Europe but it is not what we have here. It was very suitable for landlords to have tenants in place paying rent which were paying down debts while the values of the properties were increasing and potentially the investment was returning a yield. I am conscious of the fact these people are not in a home for longevity. They can be at the mercy of the landlord or the financial institutions. They set up homes, families and communities but they can be moved on and this is starting to happen. There is an increase in activity and people are starting to sell properties.

In such cases, provision must be made for the tenants.

I will put forward an idea that should be examined. In the event that one is looking to provide someone with rent allowance, it should be along the lines of the rental accommodation scheme, RAS. However, there should be the option of taking a purchase price on such properties if they are the subject of rent allowance for a prolonged period not just in respect of a particular tenant, but if it is provided to someone who is in receipt of rent allowance. In the town I have just given to the Minister of State as an example, 2,000 people are on the housing list, the majority of whom are in receipt of rent allowance. Consequently, the provision of stock means a great number of people essentially are benefiting from the State paying their mortgages while paying the rent.

I believe the ownership of a house is essential for good communities. One area at which one looks is the provision of landscaped green areas. When one visits an area, it is always encouraging to see a green area on which a couple of young fellows and young girls have thrown down sweaters to make goals and who are playing sport. I refer to the level of anti-social behaviour in areas with green spaces that encourage people to play sports or which simply accumulate numbers of young people who are under supervision in such green areas. It is not rocket science and architects will tell one it is possible to breed a level of community involvement through the design of what the Minister of State intends to do and I can tell that the Government intends to build social housing in the future.

Another area on which I wish to see money spent is the plight of the homeless people I have been encountering. One issue is the banks are not giving people the necessary leniency to enable the latter to get on to a housing list and get their rent supplement. I dealt with a case fairly recently in which an individual was able to sign up for his dole but as most of it was going on his rent, he was living on a small amount of money. He was unable to get rent supplement and in such a situation, a person is being tipped towards homelessness. The facilities are not in place to look after such cases and a provision should be put in place with immediate effect whereby someone could be provided with a rental allowance for a short period until a review is carried out on it.

I compliment the Minister of State on the regeneration projects. A great service is being done for the country in this regard, which everyone in this House welcomes. However, there is also a problem that emanates from the lack of job creation outside the key areas. While there is talk of rents rising in Dublin and Cork, this it is not happening nationwide. I recognise the country was in a bad place financially, etc., but consideration must now be given to the regions. I want people to be able to live there, to raise families, to be able to look after their parents and to build up their communities and, consequently, jobs must be created, particularly in the regions. As for IDA Ireland's regional strategy from 2015 to 2022, I impress on the Minister of State the need to have a strategy whereby the Government tries both to build houses for social protection purposes and to build communities, which will involve the creation of jobs and giving people sustainability in the regions.

While I welcome what is being done today, more can be done with regard to the progression of the economy. I would like as many people as possible to own their houses. I do not believe the rental predicament is terribly favourable here, particularly with a buoyant market. It is about creativity and a little imagination but as I stated, my major bugbear relates to rent allowance and the fact that neither the tenant, the local authorities nor the Government has any ownership over such properties. Consequently, people can be tossed out at short notice, which is unfortunate and unacceptable to me. While this predicament arises from where we are at present, it is something that can be resolved with the help of a couple of the creative ideas I have tried to convey.

Deputy John Browne

I welcome the opportunity to say a few words on the Bill. All Members are out on the canvas trail at present in their respective constituencies and one major issue on the doorsteps is housing or the lack thereof. At many doors to which one goes, people are living in overcrowded conditions. They are living in mobile homes at the back of houses and really, matters have regressed to the dark days of the 1960s and 1970s with regard to the inadequate housing available to families throughout the country. There are approximately 90,000 people on the social housing waiting list, including up to 3,000 in County Wexford, which constitutes an enormous number of people who are awaiting and seeking housing. RAS is working reasonably well although I note a recent report from Wexford County Council indicated that the total number of transfers to RAS thus far this year has been 31, while the target is 140. It is almost the middle of May and yet the council has only achieved 22% of its target. One reason is the council is finding it very difficult to get a supply of houses from home owners who go on RAS. In addition, the condition of some houses I have visited on the campaign trail that are under RAS certainly leave much to be desired. They are sub-standard and of poor quality. The Minister of State might comment on what facilities local authorities have to inspect houses in RAS because when I make representations to the housing officer, he or she usually tells me the onus is on the house owner to carry out the repairs. Some of them certainly are not terribly helpful and are treating people on RAS with utter contempt.

The legislation before Members is being rushed through in an effort to prevent any meaningful debate on its substance. As there will be no Dáil sittings next week, I presume the Bill will conclude this week. For those who are homeless, on social housing lists or renting on low and middle incomes, the economic recovery's most tangible impact is to make the prospect of home ownership and stable accommodation a more distant possibility than ever. As I stated, the Bill does not address the chronic lack of supply in housing units or Government inaction on the matter. Instead, it seeks to address matters that would be relevant, were there an adequate supply of social housing and a rental market that was not in crisis. Unfortunately, this is not the position facing the people at present. The Bill provides for a scheme of tenant purchase of existing local authority houses broadly along the same lines as the incremental purchase schemes for new local authority housing. In her response, the Minister of State might explain this provision in greater detail. Did she give consideration to selling off the local authority stock at a reduced rate? There was such a sell-off, I believe it may have been in 1989, in which council houses were sold off at half price. A huge number of people availed of that scheme and, as a result, the councils avoided the repair costs for those houses in the intervening years. The Minister of State might give serious consideration again to such a "sale of the century" or whatever one wishes to call it, in which people who were in a position to buy the houses could buy them at a reduced rate. The local authority would no longer be responsible for the repairs or the upkeep of those houses.

The new housing assistance payment, HAP, will be made by housing authorities in respect of rent payable by households that are qualified for social housing support for rented accommodation that has been sourced by the households concerned. I always thought the scheme being operated by the community welfare officers was very good. They were on the ground and were very much aware of people's needs. In general, they ran a very good scheme. I am unsure whether handing this over to the local authorities will improve matters. I sometimes wonder whether it will make matters worse. It depends on who is the local authority's housing officer at the time because some of those with whom I have dealt in the past at local authority level certainly would not be too helpful to people who now wish to avail of this scheme. I again ask the Minister of State to spell out how the scheme will work in reality.

At present, many people avail of rent supplement but because of the cap placed on it, they are unable to avail of the full amount and as a result, are obliged to put some of their social welfare payments towards the rent, some of which is going under the counter and some over the counter, to be able to acquire housing. I am unsure whether this is the best system in which the State should be involved because the rent supplement scheme should take into account the value of houses in a particular area.

Members have heard a lot of talk about the rental value of houses in Dublin going through the roof.

The rental value of houses in rural Ireland has also increased because of the significant lack of housing. Landlords have been implementing regular rent increases. The money available through the supplementary rent scheme does not meet the full rent. As a result, many tenants are accepting inadequate substandard facilities which do not meet the needs of families.

Some people avail of the deduction from social welfare payments and this will become a mandatory deduction. Up to now the tenant could decide whether he or she wished to participate in that scheme. It is unfair that this will become mandatory. Many people availed of the scheme in the past. Rent arrears is one thing but a mandatory deduction may not take into account the person's ability to pay and other commitments. I always encourage people to pay their rent before everything else in order to ensure a roof over their head. In my view the mandatory deduction scheme is a form of bully-boy tactic.

I refer to the increasing levels of homelessness, both in cities and in rural towns. A problem that in the past was confined to cities such as Dublin is now an issue in rural towns where many young people are homeless. For example, they are living under the bridges or on park benches in my own town of Enniscorthy and in other towns in Wexford. The situation is escalating and it needs to be tackled. Different organisations in the city are very involved with homelessness. I refer to the work of Fr. Peter McVerry and others. However, the situation is different in rural Ireland because there are not many organisations involved. It is an issue that needs to be tackled and it is a concern that so many young people are homeless because of alcohol abuse. The situation in rural Ireland needs to be taken into account as well.

I have raised with the Minister of State the issue of the social housing list and NAMA. There have been consistent delays in the transfer of NAMA properties. To date, only 500 houses have been transferred to local authorities. I do not understand the reason for the delay. In my home town of Enniscorthy, the local authority purchased a number of houses from a builder who ended up in NAMA. The council could not deal with the bureaucracy associated with NAMA and it withdrew from purchasing houses from NAMA and instead purchased houses on the open market. I ask the Minister of State to explain to the House why NAMA continues to transfer such a small number of houses. Does the problem lie with the local authority or is there fault on both sides? The system has not been working satisfactorily, which is regrettable. NAMA has a significant number of properties in Wexford on its books. These are lying idle and are not being made available to those 3,000 on the local authority housing waiting list.

It is questionable whether this Bill is going in the right direction. It is rushed legislation and such legislation comes back to bite politicians and the Government in particular. I ask the Minister of State to spell out what she means by the new HAP scheme and how it will be implemented by local authorities. Will the housing sections of local authorities need a special unit to deal with the scheme? Will it be all over the place like the rental accommodation scheme because different people are dealing with it on different days of the week? The housing section of the local authority should have a specific section with expertise and training to deal with the scheme. The community welfare officers were up to speed on this scheme because they had many years of experience which has now been lost and the local authority officials will have to begin again. I suggest a training system for the staff who will be dealing with the HAP scheme. I ask her in her reply to explain the continuing delays in the NAMA reallocation of houses on its books.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Peter Fitzpatrick is sharing his time with Deputies Tony McLaughlin and Tom Barry. It will be five minutes for Deputies Fitzpatrick and McLoughlin and ten minutes for Deputy Tom Barry. Is that correct?

Deputy Peter Fitzpatrick

That is correct. The incremental purchase scheme has been introduced as a new purchase option to meet the needs of those requiring long-term housing supports and to assist those households with low incomes to make a start on the route to home ownership whereby the house is sold at a discount price and the purchaser becomes the full owner at the time of sale.

The incremental purchase scheme applies to newly built houses only and does not include apartments and flats. Existing tenants of a local authority, approved housing body or rental accommodation scheme, RAS, who are willing to move to a newly built house and approved housing applicants are eligible. The household means policy will determine income eligibility and affordability. A household must have a gross annual income of not less than €15,000. Income from social welfare, social assistance payments, allowances, pension allowances and other welfare benefits are not assessable income for the purposes of the incremental purchase scheme, except where this is a secondary source of income, for example, where a person receives a social welfare payment in addition to income from employment and-or where the spouse or partner of an employed applicant receives a social welfare payment. Some types of benefit will not be accepted as income. A household which previously bought a house from a local authority is not permitted to buy a house under the incremental purchase scheme.

Discounts to the purchase price are applied under three bands. Band No. 1, household income €15,000 to €19,000, will receive a discount of 60%; band No. 2, household income of €20,000 to €29,999, will receive a discount of 50%; while band No. 3, household income of €30,000 plus, will receive a discount of 40%. I ask the Minister of State to examine the provision for the amount to be saved in order to qualify for the scheme as this seems to vary and it needs to be clarified.

An incremental purchase scheme will also replace the tenant purchase scheme which closed for new applicants at the end of 2012. The new scheme will cover local authority houses, other than newly-built houses, or newly acquired houses and local authority apartments, which are covered by the existing incremental purchase schemes.

I refer to the main elements of the new model scheme. On the sale of the dwelling, the authority places an incremental purchase charge on the dwelling of the proportion of its value equal to the discount to the purchase. The charge withers away in equal annual proportions over the charged period, provide the tenant purchaser complies with the terms and conditions of the sale, notably, the use of the dwelling as the household's normal residence. If the purchaser breaches a condition of the sale during the charge period, the authority may suspend the annual release on its charge for the year concerned, in which case the dwelling's owner much, on the expiry of the charged period, make a payment to the authority to clear the outstanding charge on the property.

If the tenant purchaser wishes to resell the dwelling during the charged period, the housing authority has first option on buying it back at its current market value, less the value of the outstanding incremental purchase charge. Where the authority does not buy back the dwelling, the tenant purchaser must, on the sale of the dwelling during the charge period, pay the authority the value of the outstanding incremental purchase charge on the property, subject to not incurring a net loss on the resale.

Housing assistance payment will facilitate the transfer of responsibility for the provision of rental assistance to persons with long-term housing need from the Department of Social Protection, currently provided through the rent supplement scheme, to housing authorities, including the provision of a mandatory direct deduction facility to recover rent contributions due to the housing authorities from the welfare payment made to housing assistance recipients and local authority tenants.

Following the introduction of the housing assistance payments, rent supplement will continue to be audited by the Department of Social Protection for households in the private rental sector. In the main, such households have lost income through unemployment and require short-term income support to pay their rent. These households will not generally require a social housing assessment and it will be expected that a return to employment will obviate the need for long-term support for such households.

I welcome the provision of an additional €50 million for social housing, of which €20 million will be spent on vacant units, €10 million on capital projects largely directed at alleviating homelessness and €20 million on local authority construction focused on higher needs.

Deputy Tony McLoughlin

I welcome the opportunity to express support for this reforming legislation which will benefit tenants, local authorities and the State. The Bill will also promote a return to employment and strengthen local communities by allowing residents to purchase properties in the areas in which they have settled. Furthermore, it will deal in a fair and efficient manner with anti-social behaviour in communities by empowering local authorities and facilitating decentralisation.

The current rent supplement system is not fit for purpose and requires a major overhaul. It has unintentionally developed into a long-term support. One of the main and unfortunate disadvantages of the current system is that most tenants are discouraged from taking up employment because they fear losing the supports available to them. This will no longer be the case under the new housing assistance payment, HAP, scheme. The new scheme will be operated by housing authorities and will give local authorities responsibility for all long-term supports, thus creating a better and more transparent system. While tenants will continue to have the freedom to source their own accommodation in the private rented sector, the local authority will pay the full rent to the landlord directly and the tenant will pay the contribution to the local authority. Landlords must be tax compliant to avail of the scheme and the rented accommodation will have to meet statutory standards. This will contribute to improved standards of private rented accommodation. In addition, the involvement of local authorities will guarantee transparency and clarity in the system.

The Government is committed to getting people back to work. Under the current rent supplement scheme, support is usually discontinued when a person or his or her spouse or partner returns to full-time employment. The new scheme will provide an opportunity for tenants to work without losing their rent supplement, with the payment being adjusted depending on income. This change will be welcomed by members of the public on the basis that it offers solutions based on individual needs and replaces the one-size-fits-all approach adopted by the previous Government. The new system was designed with fairness in mind and we will deliver on that objective.

The Bill also introduces a new tenant purchase scheme for local authority tenants linked to household income. The scheme will provide an opportunity for people to establish roots, become home owners and remain part of their community. It has been meticulously designed and all possible factors have been taken into consideration. Local authorities will offer tenants an opportunity to purchase their home at a discounted price. The scheme safeguards local authorities against possible losses as the legal framework in place ensures individuals will not make a profit at the expense of councils. Anti-social behaviour is also discouraged through the inclusion of a provision precluding purchase by those who are in breach of public order.

I have received numerous inquiries from tenants who wish to purchase their homes from Sligo and Leitrim county councils. This is an opportune time to offer people a realistic deal that will allow them to purchase their own home. I hope the Housing Finance Agency will respond with effective finance options because I fear the banks will not do so.

The Bill also deals with the termination of tenancy agreements by providing that this will be done in an open and transparent manner. It also introduces a new system for the repossession of local authority houses. This measure will only be applied where it is absolutely necessary and all other options have been exhausted. The Bill includes measures to deal with cases of serious breaches of the tenancy agreement, which will include anti­social behaviour and continued failure to pay rent or arrears.

It is essential that we provide a safe and pleasant living environment for our communities and tackle the issue of anti-social behaviour in a fair but firm manner. There is a perception that people will not respect a home if it is provided at a low rent. Social housing costs money and all tenants must respect the property they live in, irrespective of whether the local authority is the landlord. Councils must side with those living in local authority estates who take pride in their home and estate and ensure that those who have little respect for their properties are penalised.

The legislation regulates the provision of housing for the public by introducing crucial tools, procedures and a legal framework that will be indispensable for a smooth development of the sector in future. It also draws a clear picture of the Government's vision of a fair and hard-working society that provides opportunities for the prosperity of future generations.

I commend the Minister of State, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, on her work on this important Bill. This time last year, the Minister of State visited two estates in County Leitrim where remedial works costing €1.6 million had been carried out. She observed at first hand the value of this investment and the comfort it brought to the residents of the estates. I hope similar works will be considered for other estates across counties Leitrim and Sligo if such schemes are open for consideration by the Department. In the meantime, I commend the Minister of State on the positive and progressive work she is doing on housing with a limited budget.

Deputy Tom Barry

I welcome the opportunity to speak to the Bill. Social housing is a major issue and one which is raised weekly in my clinics in Fermoy and Mallow. Some people have spent years on the housing list and it is difficult not to be moved when one listens to their distressing stories.

This is an extensive Bill and I will focus on a small number of key areas. An evaluation of actual housing need is required as some people are on several housing lists. I presume work is being done on this legacy issue with a view to updating the list.

The shortage of two bedroom accommodation affects in particular separated men who want to contribute to their children's upbringing and care. In some cases, their former partners are working and they cannot be accommodated. This is a significant sub-group on the housing list and one which needs to be addressed.

The Bill also addresses the scourge of anti-social behaviour. Some of the points I made on this issue in 2012 remain valid. Anti-social behaviour is not the preserve of one section of society as it crosses all boundaries. The concept of a reviewer, as provided for in the Bill, should be expanded to become an assessment board. Assessment boards should incorporate local gardaí, public representatives and relevant members of the council executive. While I understand that concerns may arise about cronyism, a well structured board conducting an open process should negate such concerns. We must tackle the lack of transparency in decision making in this area.

Social housing is allocated on the basis that the beneficiaries will fit into a community and will not destroy the lives of people living around them. Garda vetting of applicants should be mandatory before housing is allocated. We are highly conscious of the right to a home and we place excessive emphasis on the rights of tenants, while underplaying their responsibilities to their communities and neighbours. It is not sufficient to have a person provide a self-assessment of his or her public order record. People who engage in anti-social behaviour remain in local authority housing estates, while their neighbours, who have not done anything wrong, feel that they must leave the estate. Many of those who visit my clinics want to leave a housing estate because of the actions of others. This is wrong. Many young people who are causing problems in residential areas never feature on lists of offenders because they do not have a criminal record. This issue needs to be addressed.

While I accept in principle the need to sell local authority housing stock because many tenants wish to buy their home, we cannot continue to sell this stock if we do not replenish it. Housing should be allocated in a flexible manner. For example, people approaching retirement may not need a three or four bedroom house or a home with stairs. For this reason, people must accept that housing will be allocated to meet their needs at certain times in their lives. Maybe at a later stage in life, they could move into an area with accessible services which would meet their demands.

There are many unwilling landlords, those whose circumstances left them with housing stock that they cannot afford or want. Most are based outside Dublin. If we could see our way to taking these properties off these unwilling landlords, relieving them of this burden, we would have social housing stock immediately. It would also deal with the second problem of a debt overhang with which these landlords cannot deal. While some of these properties are in negative equity, when they are held by the State and rented in a progressive manner, the debt will be eventually repaid. The State has the advantage of time which the distressed householder does not. I accept this is a challenging proposal in tight economic times but these costs offset the alternative of default and subsequent welfare payments, along with dealing with the banks’ impairment issues. Such a move would immediately release housing stock. It is a good time for the State to invest in such property because those trying to move a distressed asset will not be looking for top-of-the-market prices.

There is a reticence among private landlords to take on social housing. I am a landlord myself and I understand exactly from where they are coming. We all have heard the horror stories of rented apartments destroyed by tenants with the landlord left to carry the can. In some instances, we need to protect landlords in this regard. Is there a need for the Private Residential Tenancies Board, PRTB, to become involved in arrangements where councils rent properties in the private market? The reviewer is already in place who can make findings and this arrangement sounds like duplication. I am not the best fan of the PRTB but that is for a different day.

I agree with the section that allows people to voice their concerns about anti-social behaviour by social housing tenants without fear of recrimination. However, if an oversight board was in place, this provision would not be needed. I have people attending my constituency clinic who are upset, some even suicidal, over the threatening actions of their anti-social neighbours. It is just not good enough for the State to support anti-social neighbours.

The Bill has teeth and will not allow people get away without paying a fair rent. I am not a great fan of deducting at source but I see the need to ensure rents are collected so as to be fair to all involved in social housing, particularly those who do their best to pay their rent. It is important everyone is treated equally. We need to be fair and compassionate with the rents we are charging. Some social housing tenants feel they are being charged rents that leave them with little to survive on afterwards.

Section 17 covers the death of a social housing tenant and recovery of the dwelling. We may need to be sensitive to the other occupants of a house, particularly those with children who may be going to school in the area. We must ensure fairness for occupants in such circumstances who have to move out of a house.

Overall, I am happy with the Bill’s provisions. It is obvious the Minister listened to Members’ requests. It will lead us into a mature discussion about the provision of social housing. Social housing means one does not have to own the house. It can mean a person is housed for their needs with a degree of flexibility. One’s housing needs in one’s 30s may not be the same when one is 70. As we all live longer and contribute to society for longer, flexibility in that manner will be welcome. Owning a house or a property over the past few years was very difficult because one simply could not sell if one needed to move on. Accordingly, the flexibility which was there long ago was gone.

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Jan O’Sullivan, and her staff for their work on this Bill. It is a move in the right direction and people will recognise it addresses social housing provision. While there are criticisms of social housing from various sectors, it is one of the most important features of our democracy. This Bill moves in the right direction in providing for social housing that people deserve.

Deputy Brian Stanley

I wish to share time with Deputy O'Brien.

Acting Chairman (Deputy Bernard J. Durkan)

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Deputy Brian Stanley

It is essential there is a major investment in the provision of social housing by local authorities across this State as soon as possible. Sinn Féin’s party leader brought this up again today with the Taoiseach but he chose to ignore the issue with a sidestepping deflection as usual. Over the past several years, Sinn Féin has outlined how a €1 billion investment from the strategic investment fund would work for this sector but the Government seems to be intent on ignoring it. Many of the Government’s initiatives in social housing provision, including those announced on budget day, are actual reiterations of old initiatives and ministerial photo opportunities. While they might help the Government parties get over the local elections next Friday, even Government Deputies, including the Acting Chairman, Deputy Durkan, acknowledge there is a significant need for local authority house building programmes.

Sinn Féin’s figure of 6,502 houses being built from a €985 million investment is actually quite conservative. In many parts of the country, homes can be built for as much €80,000 and as little as €50,000. Laois County Council bought six houses last year for a little over €50,000 each which needed minimum renovation and now house six families. Averaged out at €70,000, the figure for new builds which could be delivered with that €985 million would be in excess of 7,000 units. That is before one even considers the extra for refurbishments.

Council housing is an asset, not a liability, to the State and local authorities. It has clear and undeniable benefits. It may have become slightly unfashionable for governments in the post-Thatcher era - what happens in England tends to spread here - when local authorities sold off large parts of their housing stock.

It may have become unfashionable for local authorities to provide housing but that is exactly what we need to do. These houses would be homes for families who have had to endure a great deal of hardship due to the failures of Governments. The most vulnerable and the poorest members of society, those on the housing waiting lists, have already been victims of the harshest cuts and the effects of austerity of the current Government and its predecessor. The plan my party is putting forward would give them a secure and comfortable home and give them a chance to live in dignity and to raise their families.

Council housing also benefits local authorities by returning revenue in rents. Previously, I have given the example of one local authority which will bring in up to €5 million in rents this year. The maintenance budget is €720,000. Obviously, the capital loan must be paid off. I expect that Laois County Council will bring in €4.5 million to €5 million in rents this year and the housing budget for maintenance, on my recollection, is €720,000.

Local authorities bring in revenue from them. Instead of doing this, we are forking out money on RAS, social leasing and rent supplements, all of which are drains on the public finances and much of which is funnelled into private hands. What we have is short-term thinking. It is self-defeating. These schemes are being held up to be preferable to providing more long-term solutions. If the State were involved in local authority housing construction at present, it would create jobs for builders and would return straightaway 13.5% of the cost of materials in VAT to the coffers of the Exchequer. There would also be an increase in returns in income tax, universal social charge and PRSI, as well as other revenue that would flow from that, and the benefit of a drop in the live register which the Government and its predecessor estimated would save approximately €20,000 per head. Each person going back to work saves €20,000, and it is crazy that the Government believes it is acceptable for local authorities to spend millions of euro putting the homeless in hostels but will not put meaningful investment into local authority housing which has all these benefits. It can only be ideology. Whose ideology is it? Is it Fine Gael's or Labour's?

Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government (Deputy Jan O'Sullivan)

Lack of money.

Deputy Brian Stanley

In Laois there has been no local authority house building for four or five years. There are six being built this year in Clonaslee, and that is welcome. Any new house is to be welcomed, but six is a drop in the ocean. There were two last year - one special needs and, as I recall, one for the elderly which was a maisonette. There is considerable need. There are 1,400 households on the waiting list and there is a significant amount of funding being paid out in the county in rent supplement, the rental accommodation scheme, RAS, etc. I ask the Minister of State to look at this. Obviously, my party wants to see it across the State, but I am highlighting the position in my county because I am familiar with it. We could take thousands out of rent supplement, off RAS and out of emergency accommodation. If one takes what we are outlining here, 7,500 households in receipt of rent supplement involves an annual bill of €32 million on that alone.

This drive by the Government to house people privately and subsidise private landlords has led to massively inflated rents due to a shortage of available properties and many tens of thousands desperate for a home. Rents across the State have risen year on year since the Government has taken office, and have risen 9% in the past 12 months. The average rent across the State is now €828 more a year, with an average monthly rate at €880, that is, the equivalent of paying an extra month's rent every year. This is in the context of a period of wage cuts, hours being cut, wage freezes and unemployment. The overall solution in the longer term is for the State to become involved in a major house building programme. I outlined some of the economic benefits of that. We must look at this on a long-term basis, not deal with matters merely on a short-term basis, as the opportunities arise.

I also highlight the need for rent controls. We need to have rent controls as soon as possible. With so many renters facing eviction due to inability to pay, we face many more becoming homeless if we do nothing. Rent controls are not a new idea and if operated in conjunction with social housing investment, can provide for a stable and affordable housing market. A Swedish policy review in 2013 found rent controls act as:

a safety valve ... that ensures that the performance of the housing market will not get progressively worse. Rather, tenancy rent control will lead to the establishment of a ... long-run equilibrium.

They found it of benefit in terms of stabilising the private rented market.

Rent control was also found to reduce tenancy turnover. I am sure the Minister of State has come across where tenancies are being ended so that the landlord can get the tenants out and bring in somebody at €100 a month more. I come across many such cases in County Laois. In Dublin, and some of the bigger cities, it is a significant issue.

Rent control would also stabilise communities. It would result in tenants in the private rented sector living in a more stable community and having a better quality of life. It is a feature in many European states where renting is seen as a viable long-term option.

I also want to speak in opposition to the inclusion in this Bill of the removal of funds at source from tenants in rent arrears. Rents must be paid. I am not arguing that rents should not be paid and my party certainly is not. However, what I have found to be the best solution here is negotiation between the local authority and the tenant, perhaps through MABS or a public representative or whoever, to cover rent arrears, and it works in 99.99% of cases. I have been involved in having many evictions halted. A few years ago, there was a family of nine who were facing eviction on a Friday where significant rent arrears had accumulated. That family has now cleared their rent arrears, they are in the house, they have better management of money and are back on top of matters, and that is far better than putting out a family, a couple with seven children, on the road. Negotiation is always better than including such measures. Of course, deduction, if it is voluntary, is a great way, and often I have advocated that tenants take up that option of the household budget plan where they can have the rent stopped at source at the post office. It works well for many. I advocate that, but it is voluntary. We should encourage people to do that and to be good tenants. The measure, as it is outlined here, would mean that local authorities would not have to consider the individual difficulties and circumstances of someone in rent arrears and could bypass any kind of mediation such as I outlined to resolve the arrears. This would only thrust more vulnerable tenants into poverty.

There are many cases were tenants in difficult situations will from time to time develop arrears which they fully intend to pay off and maybe sometimes need a little professional help from an organisation such as MABS, but there are many single parents out there. A single parent with one child is on €217 a week. The Minister of State must be careful with this. That person is paying €40 or €45 a week in rent, which means he or she is left with €160 or €170, and has many other bills coming in. We need to be sensitive here. We are not dealing with those on €1,000 a week, €500 a week or even in many cases €300 a week, but with those on the bottom rung of the ladder, and we need to be careful to keep the rents as low as possible, get them to look after their houses properly which the vast majority of them do, and keep them in their homes and have stable communities. If the Minister of State comes along and gives the local authorities a big stick with which to beat tenants, it could be counterproductive in that some of them will become homeless whereas, in fact, what they need is a little professional help to pay their rent which, I accept, they must pay. We need to keep that incentive in place.

In conclusion, I want to highlight the issue of the Private Residential Tenancies Board, PRTB. The PRTB's staff has more than halved in the past few years. Their workload has mushroomed. The Minister of State does not need me to tell her what happens in such a situation. If one's workload doubles or nearly triples and one's staff is halved, they are under severe pressure. There is a considerable backlog of complaints. It is a slow process and it does not work for the simple reason that by the time a solution is found, the tenant or landlord who has complained has moved on to a new situation. The Minister of State needs to address that situation with regard to the PRTB.

Deputy Jonathan O'Brien

I have told the Minister of State previously that I think she has a very difficult job. Despite what many people say, the housing problem is not something that can be solved by throwing money at it. More complex issues than that are at stake. I would like to touch on some of them and make a few comments about the Bill.

The Bill deals with the area of evictions, which is difficult to deal with. The residents of many housing estates face the daily and nightly reality of the severe anti-social behaviour of a small minority of tenants. Such behaviour is not exclusive to local authority housing estates - it happens in every private and local authority housing estate. As I always say to people, at least there is some comeback when it happens in local authority estates. It is sometimes easier to go through the process to be followed when a family or an individual in such an estate is involved in serious breaches of the law or anti-social behaviour than it is to deal with someone who lives in a privately owned home in a private housing estate. In my opinion, it is wrong to evict a whole family because one individual is involved in anti-social behaviour. When a young child who is innocent in all of this is uprooted from his or her home and moved into a different community because of the behaviour of a parent or an older sibling, it might solve the issue for the community where the family was living but it does not solve the issue of the anti-social behaviour - it merely transfers it to the community where the family ends up living further down the road. I understand that when someone is evicted from a local authority house, it is the responsibility of the local authority or the HSE to ensure that person is adequately housed. Eviction does not solve the problem - it simply moves it to another location. I should also mention that if someone is involved in serious criminal activity or anti-social behaviour, it is an issue for the Garda to get involved in.

The question of succession rights is a difficult one. It is fair enough for a person who was living with his or her parents in the family home - a local authority house - before they passed away to be asked to meet his or her housing needs in the private market if that person's high income or good job gives him or her the financial means to do so. I do not have an issue with that. Such a person should not take up a local authority house that could accommodate a more needy individual or family. While I have no issue with such a policy being pursued, the circumstances I have outlined do not always apply. There are different circumstances in every scenario. We need to take all of them into account. I would like to give the example of an elderly couple with a small income. They have a granddaughter who stays with them but is not on the rent book. Perhaps they have taken her in because she does not have a relationship with her own parents. I have experience in this regard, having spoken to a young girl who was in such circumstances. When her grandmother passed away, she suddenly found herself homeless, in effect, even though she had lived in her grandmother's local authority house for a number of years. The problem was that she was not on the rent book. A degree of flexibility used to be available to local authorities in such cases. Perhaps some of them used it to a greater extent than others. We need to be very careful in this area because we do not want to see anyone being made homeless.

The issue of downsizing needs to be considered in the context of housing succession rights. I will give a personal example. My mother lives in a three-bedroom house at the moment. It is too big for her. She does not need a three-bedroom house. My father has passed away. My brother, my sister and I have moved out. There is nobody there. My mother's grandchildren stay overnight occasionally. A three-bedroom house is too difficult for her. Ill health is starting to becoming an issue for her. Climbing up and down stairs is becoming an issue for her. The local authority finds it difficult to facilitate people like my mother who wish to downsize. It does not have the variety of properties for people to downsize into. I will give another example. An elderly man with a disability who suddenly finds himself living alone in a three-bedroom or four-bedroom house, having raised his family in that family home over the decades, might want to downsize into a bungalow or a little two-bedroom apartment. The local authority does not have the type of dwelling into which he could downsize. I agree with the downsizing scheme, which has the potential to free up larger family units that are much needed. If the local authorities do not have the properties to enable people to downsize, the scheme will be made redundant. This must be to the fore when local authorities are undertaking house-building or refurbishment schemes. There is a need for integrated housing schemes that comprise a variety of units and are not confined to three-bedroom and four-bedroom houses. Such houses are no good to the single people who account for 50% of those on Cork City Council housing list.

This Bill will provide for the mandatory taking at source of moneys to go towards rent arrears. Most local authorities have very good schemes in place, whereby they sit down with individual tenants and come to an arrangement for a certain amount to be paid towards arrears. It is not mandatory. There has to be a certain degree of flexibility. In my experience, a person who is in rent arrears for some reason - he or she might have lost his or her job or fallen behind on a few bills - is usually dealt with compassionately when he or she goes into a local housing office to sit down with a housing official. Housing officials usually deal with individuals on the basis of their needs by assessing their income and expenditure and working out how much they should pay back. That is all well and good until something happens to that individual. There might be a death in the family, Christmas might be approaching, something in the home might need to be repaired or an additional amount of income might need to be spent on a piece of medical equipment. Housing officials seem to have no scope for dealing with that. They look at income and expenditure, but they do not take account of one-off costs that may arise. If tenants in such circumstances skip their rent payments for a week or two to pay for a doctor or hospital visit, they fall into arrears and start to encounter greater trouble.

There are bad landlords throughout the State. In my opinion and in my experience, having served on a local authority for almost 11 years, the local authorities are the biggest rogue landlords in the State. I have always said that. I firmly and truly believe it to be the case. Some of the housing stock owned by local authorities is not fit for people to be living in. Housing building inspectors inspect rental accommodation scheme properties to ensure they are of the standard required to allow the owner to become a landlord under the scheme. When the Minister of State was in Cork recently, she will have noted the scandalous condition of some of the housing in the city. There are people living in local authority homes without heating and hot water. This issue needs to be dealt with very quickly. The rental accommodation scheme itself is an absolute disaster waiting to happen. People are not being told at the time of taking up tenancies under the scheme that they are being taken off the local authority waiting list.

Despite what local authorities may tell the Minister of State or her officials, I guarantee they are not telling tenants when they take up RAS properties that they are effectively off the housing list. Although some of those RAS properties are in very poor condition, people are in such desperate need of housing that they accept them. Then they inform their local authorities of problems such as faulty heating, leaking windows and broken doors, which the landlord refuses to repair. Although the local authorities sanctioned the properties for RAS, they say it is not their responsibility.

There are major issues in housing and this Bill, while it is welcome, is only a small step in the right direction.

Debate adjourned.