Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 10 Jul 2014

Vol. 848 No. 1

Leaders' Questions

Deputy Timmy Dooley

As it is Deputy Burton's first opportunity to take Leaders' Questions in her new role as Tánaiste, on behalf of our party, I wish her well in the work ahead as Tánaiste and look forward to continued robust interaction with her here.

The decision seven days ago to prevent two of the five Garth Brooks concerts going ahead should have signalled to the Tánaiste and the Government that this was a serious issue that had arisen. When it was announced that the remaining three concerts were to be cancelled, it was clear to all concerned that a crisis was looming-----

Deputy Derek Nolan

Crisis?

Deputy Gerald Nash

Deputy Timmy Dooley would know all about a crisis.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

-----that had the potential to strike an economic blow to the city of Dublin and tarnish the international reputation of Ireland from a tourism perspective.

Unlike the backbenchers in the Labour Party, I do not believe this is about a particular genre of entertainment. It is about the loss of €50 million in revenue to the hotel and catering sector of this city and the surrounding area. It is about upsetting the travel plans of 70,000 inbound tourists at a time when we are trying to re-establish Ireland as a great place to visit. It is about disappointing 400,000 ticket holders who have purchased and paid for their tickets and are looking forward to the event that they had expected to attend. It is about the reputational damage to Ireland as a destination for international entertainment events on a large scale at a time when we are trying to attract the Rugby World Cup in 2023. It is about the employment of a few thousand casual workers in the hotels, bars and catering outlets around this city, and, indeed, many bus drivers and bus owners around Ireland.

Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin

Aiken Promotions is having a laugh.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

A week ago I published a short Bill to bring about a constructive outcome to this fiasco. The Taoiseach sat on his hands for a week. On Tuesday, on the Order of Business, I made it clear to him that, based on the contacts I had made, it was still possible to bring about a resolution to this issue.

Deputy Frank Feighan

It was Fianna Fáil that introduced the legislation with no right of appeal. Come on, Timmy, you were in government.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

However, the Taoiseach said it was too late because the artist had made his decision. By so doing, the Taoiseach allowed the reputation of Ireland to be sullied by the hundreds of thousands of media clips of a negative connotation that appeared.

Deputy John Lyons

Come on; this is the Parliament.

An Ceann Comhairle

Will Deputy Timmy Dooley put his question, please?

Deputy Timmy Dooley

It is embarrassing and it should not have happened. The Tánaiste's backbenchers laughed at us and they are continuing to do it, yet the Labour Party's own Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs wanted the Taoiseach to contact Garth Brooks-----

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

Will the Deputy put his question? He is over time.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

I am trying to. With respect, I am being prevented from doing so by the heckles.

An Ceann Comhairle

Please put the question.

Deputy Finian McGrath

He is being heckled by the Labour Party.

An Ceann Comhairle

Will the Deputy stay quiet also?

Deputy Finian McGrath

If that was Leonard Cohen, they would be jumping up and down.

An Ceann Comhairle

Do not make a farce out of the whole thing.

Deputy Finian McGrath

Or probably Bob Dylan.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Finian McGrath

Intellectual snobs.

An Ceann Comhairle

Will Deputy Timmy Dooley put his question?

Deputy Timmy Dooley

I am attempting to. I need a bit of ciúnas.

An Ceann Comhairle

What is the question?

Deputy Timmy Dooley

My question is very clear. I said at the outset it was not about the genre of entertainment or even-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Just put the question.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

It is very clear now, and the Tánaiste's backbenchers are adding to it, that the issue has gone from fiasco to farce.

An Ceann Comhairle

We know all of that. Will the Deputy put his question?

Deputy Timmy Dooley

The Tánaiste and the Government bear considerable responsibility in that regard.

Deputy Frank Feighan

Why is there no right of appeal?

Deputy Timmy Dooley

The questions I put to the Tánaiste are these. Why did the Taoiseach sit on his hands for a week? Why did the Government sit back for a week, when even the Mexicans and the Moneygall native, Barack Obama, are getting involved, yet neither the Taoiseach nor the Government was prepared to do it?

(Interruptions).

Deputy Timmy Dooley

Will the Tánaiste tell us, now that the penny has dropped with the Taoiseach that this is an important issue, what options are being addressed or discussed by the Government and what direction will issue to the city manager?

Deputy Tom Hayes

Have you a ticket bought, Timmy?

A Deputy

It is all planning law.

Deputy Gerald Nash

I thought you guys did not direct city managers.

An Ceann Comhairle

Will Members, please, refrain from making a joke out of the whole thing?

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

I am sorry. It is a Leaders' Question and it is within the rules set down by this House. The Deputy is entitled to ask the question. Equally, the Tánaiste is entitled to give an answer. Will Deputies, please, stay quiet in order that we can hear it?

The Tánaiste

First, I thank Deputy Timmy Dooley for his good wishes for my new role. Second, I thought the only people he left out were possibly the Brazilians, who might be free to be involved at this point in time.

(Interruptions).

The Tánaiste

This is a really important issue.

Deputy Robert Troy

The backbenchers do not think so.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

That is why they are at 7%.

The Tánaiste

The critical thing is that 400,000 people have bought tickets for a concert. It is about people having a summer celebration. The Government is absolutely interested in seeing how best it can assist the process. I want to make it clear that I want the issues resolved. It is a significant economic boost to the economy - I see people have indicated in the region of €50 million.

Deputy Finian McGrath

It is actually higher.

The Tánaiste

It also involves 70,000 to 80,000 people coming to Ireland, and that is important. The way that this can be resolved, as Deputy Timmy Dooley is well aware, is through discussion among the parties. I want to encourage the parties to engage in all of the discussions that are necessary to resolve this issue.

With regard to Deputy Timmy Dooley's suggestion in regard to the city manager or, under his new title, the chief executive officer of Dublin, his is a statutory authority, as the Deputy is well aware.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

It is all about titles.

The Tánaiste

He is a person of integrity and he has come to a particular decision. However, in the light of the facts that have come to attention in regard to the process, particularly in the last few days, I believe and certainly hope that, through discussion, it will be possible to resolve this issue.

I am aware as well that Garth Brooks intends to have a press conference or television conference sometime around 5 p.m. today. It sends a very important message-----

Deputy Mattie McGrath

We will see that first.

The Tánaiste

Sorry, I thought the Deputy was only-----

Deputy John Deasy

Give Garth a call yourself, Mattie. He probably knows who you are.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I know him.

Deputy Eric Byrne

What about the country and western wing of Fianna Fáil? Would they not sort it out?

An Ceann Comhairle

Will the Tánaiste, please, ignore this and proceed to make her point?

The Tánaiste

I understand he is interested in using Ireland as the launch pad for his world tour and to make a music video. That is obviously very important and of potential benefit. I also want to say, in regard to Mr. Brooks, that if the concerts get under way successfully, we should invite him to perhaps complete the world tour in Dublin, probably some time after the two years of the world tour.

The Government is positively disposed to doing all it can to assist the process but the decision maker in law at this point is the city manager. I think, though, that events and facts have come to light which were perhaps not in the public domain at the time he made his decision. I certainly feel that through discussions between the parties it may be possible to achieve a resolution. I hope it will be achieved.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

It is welcome that the Tánaiste treated the issue with the seriousness it deserves and based on the economic criteria I have set out.

It seems that there is something of a disconnect between the Tánaiste and her backbenchers. Clearly, the members of her party sought to ensure she was elected. If Garth Brooks is tuning in on the web, as I understood he did to some of Dublin City Council's deliberations, he would be somewhat confused by the Tánaiste's response and her request to him to finish up his world tour here in Dublin at a time when there seems to be no co-ordination-----

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

Will the Deputy, please, put his supplementary question?

Deputy Timmy Dooley

With the greatest respect, I have been heckled from the time I stood up.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will protect the Deputy's rights. Will the Deputy put his supplementary question and I will protect his rights?

Deputy Timmy Dooley

I dare say Garth Brooks will be somewhat confused by the Tánaiste's request to finish up his tour here when she has not outlined a mechanism by which it can happen. She talks about process and facts coming to light.

An Ceann Comhairle

Will the Deputy, please, put his supplementary question?

Deputy Timmy Dooley

Can she tell us the facts that have come to light that would raise question marks over the process undertaken? What measures can be put in place in the absence of an appropriate appeals mechanism to try to resolve the issue?

The Tánaiste

I assume that the Deputy is absolutely sincere in his request to see these concerts successfully take place in Ireland. I, therefore, suggest the floor of the Dáil is not the place to engage in very detailed discussion. There has been ample coverage in great detail of everything that has emerged in respect of this issue in all of the media, particularly the newspapers, in the past week. If the Deputy wants a successful outcome, as opposed to simply a heated debate, I would put my confidence in negotiations among the parties who are affected. I want to see a successful outcome and honestly do not propose to be involved in any detailed discussion of the matter. However, the Government and I would like to see a successful outcome. Like others, I have lots of family and friends who are committed to having an enjoyable evening out in Dublin coming from all parts of Ireland. We all know that it has the capacity to be a fantastic event which will also showcase Ireland. The Government is prepared to assist.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

I also warmly congratulate the Tánaiste on her new position. I welcome the clear and measured response she has given on the previous issue. Like others, I hope for a successful outcome.

I want to raise the conflict in the Middle East which is, once again, spiralling out of control. In the past two days, the Israeli Defence Forces have killed 50 people and wounded more than 500 in the relentless shelling of Gaza. Their claim that they are attacking Palestinian military targets is a lie. They are attacking family homes and refugee camps and killing women and children. As if this brutality is not enough, they are now threatening a full-scale military invasion of Gaza. We all know that for years the people of Gaza have been subjected to an illegal and brutal blockade. They are now being subjected to collective punishment by the Israeli Government. It is targeting women and children, and this is not acceptable. It is not acceptable either to kidnap and kill Israeli teenagers, it is not acceptable to kidnap and kill Palestinian children, and it is not acceptable for the Israeli Government to pound Gaza, one of the most densely populated places in the world, with hundreds of tonnes of explosives in a matter of days. The firing of rockets from Gaza into Israel should end immediately, but these actions cannot excuse the brutal and overwhelming military force used by the Israeli Government against what is, I repeat, a civilian population. Diplomatic pressure must be brought to bear to bring this violence to an end and to open the way for talks. What has the Irish Government done in recent days to help bring this violence to an end? Has the Taoiseach, the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade or any Minister picked up the phone to contact the Israeli ambassador or the Israeli Prime Minister directly to express the Government's outrage at the use of collective punishment against the people of Gaza?

The Tánaiste

I thank the Deputy for her congratulations. The Government is gravely concerned about the escalating violence and the civilian casualties we are now witnessing on the ground in Gaza and Israel following Israel's launch of a major air offensive against Hamas targets in Gaza in response to the continued large-scale firing of rockets by Hamas and other Islamic militants into Israel. The Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade issued a statement yesterday in which he condemned unreservedly the indiscriminate firing of rockets into Israel, which, as the Deputy said, poses a grave threat to the population. Equally, his statement condemned the mounting civilian casualties, including reportedly women and children, resulting from Israeli air strikes against Gaza. The latest estimates are that more than 70 Palestinians have been killed since the launch of the Israeli operation earlier this week.

Both the people of Gaza and the people of Israel have the right to live in peace and security without the threat of indiscriminate violence being visited upon them. The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade is closely monitoring the situation and is keeping in contact with our missions in Tel Aviv and Ramallah. It is recommended that Irish citizens who are currently in the region or travelling there register with the Department on its website. Those considering travelling should check the travel advice on the website which is updated regularly and Irish citizens in Israel or the occupied territories should exercise extreme caution and closely monitor developments via local media outlets.

It is vital that all efforts are now made to de-escalate the current situation and bring the current wave of violence and military action to an end. On behalf of the Government, I appeal to all sides to exercise the utmost restraint, avoid all civilian casualties and negotiate the earliest possible ceasefire. Obviously, the past four weeks following the deaths of the four young people have been extraordinarily difficult.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

I am sure the Tánaiste's advice for Irish citizens is necessary and instructive, but I put it to her that by far the greater concern at this time is for the men, women and children of Gaza. I have no doubt that the Tánaiste is gravely concerned by this turn of events, which amounts to more than a threat to the people of Gaza. This is a catastrophe in motion. Whereas the Tánaiste itemised a statement made by the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, I put it to her that it is gravely insufficient given the seriousness of the situation and the real possibility that Israeli aggression against the Palestinian population will escalate. It is now time for more than statements, advice to Irish citizens or indeed advice to anyone else.

I again ask the Tánaiste whether there has been contact with the Israeli ambassador in the State. Has there been government-to-government contact with the Israeli Administration? The Tánaiste knows that the EU head of mission in Jerusalem correctly accused the Israeli government in March 2013 of deliberately flouting international law. This accusation has been made time and again. Time and again, we have seen the population of Gaza pummelled and we are literally only given diplomatic rhetoric. We need more than this. If there has been no contact with the Israeli ambassador, when is that going to happen? If there has been no contact with the Israeli Administration, when is that going to happen?

The Tánaiste

I met the Palestinian representative to Ireland a couple of months to talk about the issues the Deputy raised and the difficulties for the populations of Gaza and the occupied territories.

I agree with her that what is happening is exceptionally difficult for them. Much has been done to build up and develop the area, including significant support from the Irish development aid programme via the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade. Much of that, as well as the contributions from other EU member states, may well be undone and set at nought by the developments of which we are aware. The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade is closely monitoring the situation. Officials are keeping in contact with our missions in Tel Aviv and Ramallah, which is important, and, through them, with the administrations in both Israel and Palestine.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

Therefore, the answer is that there has been no direct contact.

The Tánaiste

I reiterate that Ireland's objective in foreign policy terms is, and has always been, to ensure that the people of both Gaza and Israel have the right to live in peace.

Deputy Finian McGrath

No contact. The Government does not want to upset the Yanks.

The Tánaiste

As Deputy Mary Lou McDonald will be aware, from a diplomatic point of view, we have for many years advocated a two-state policy.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

But the ambassador or the Administration have not been contacted directly. That was my question.

An Ceann Comhairle

We are over time.

The Tánaiste

I said the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade issued a statement yesterday. He is closely monitoring the situation through-----

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

That is not good enough.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am sorry, but we have to finish.

The Tánaiste

We want peace restored for the people of both Israel and Gaza.

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

Statements will not achieve that.

Deputy Mick Wallace

Nobody has been injured on the Israeli side.

Deputy Finian McGrath

Call in the ambassador.

Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan

I wonder what it is doing for our international reputation that the national Parliament on several days this week has discussed Garth Brooks at a time when there is a homelessness crisis in the country and there are international incidents such as that referred to in Gaza and the abduction of hundreds of girls by Boko Haram in Nigeria because they want an education.

Ba mhaith liom comhghairdeas a dhéanamh leis an Tánaiste agus tá súil agam go n-éireoidh léi san obair, go h-áirithe san obair ar son daoine ar an imeall.

I have used Leaders' Questions on two occasions to deal with community issues, and I am glad the Tánaiste is present because these will be familiar to her. Initially, I raised the issue of community development projects and programmes and the tendering process that could lead to privatisation, which would mean that many years of experience and insight among people and providers living in the communities and making decisions on their behalf will be undermined. Last week, I raised issues with regard to drugs. At the Taoiseach's request, I forwarded to him the details that I brought to the House's attention and hope they have not been lost in the various power struggles this week for positions.

The common denominator in both issues is the disproportionate cuts that have been suffered in both areas. Cumulatively, community, youth and drugs projects have been cut by 38%. The third area affecting vulnerable communities is community education. Such education services are provided for those who have been most disconnected from the system in their lives, perhaps through leaving school early, being long-term unemployed or being lone parents. Community education is a powerful informal educational tool which is replicated throughout the country. For example, in my constituency, between January and June this year, 430 people participated in accredited programmes with a community education provider. The programmes were child care levels 4 to 6, horticulture level 5, and IT levels 3 and 4. These areas offer great employment opportunities. People are also enabled to progress further.

Community organisations that are FETAC-accredited are legacy providers, and if they want to continue to provide accredited programmes they must engage with the Quality and Qualifications Authority of Ireland which could mean a fee of €5,000 for each participant. They do not have that money. Will there be a fee waiver for community education providers that are doing this valuable work, as opposed to private educators that can afford to charge people?

The Tánaiste

I thank the Deputy for her good wishes.

With regard to the concerns about ongoing changes in community development, I agree with her that community development, whether in urban or rural areas, is tremendously important to every community in Ireland, and valuable services are provided. Two years ago, after I became Minister, FÁS, which dealt with community development, was taken into my Department and there was a great deal of fear, with many people suggesting this could be the end of public funding of community centres, the end of community employment and so on. I gave an undertaking in the House at the time that not only would it not be under threat but it was my intention, as resources permitted, to expand community development because of the significant role it plays, including in allowing people to return to education and training who may for a variety of reasons have not been employed for a time. Some time after that, we had a debate during which concern was particularly expressed by the Opposition. More than €1 billion is spent by the Department of Social Protection on initiatives such as community employment and the roll-out of new community programmes such as Tús, which have been successful. I understand there has been a great deal of concern about funding for the past seven years among all the organisations involved since the time of the financial collapse of the country. During the seven years prior to that, a great deal of additional funding was available because of the boom, but following the review of the various elements, including the educational elements, and the development of SOLAS, I am convinced that what will emerge is a community education personal development pattern which will focus on people getting involved and, as the Deputy, who has great experience in this area, said, attaining serous qualifications such as FETAC levels 4 and 5 which will enable them to approach employers, whether in the pubic, community or private sectors. Rather than simply saying they have been on a course, they can show they have acquired a qualification that will assist them in securing well-paid employment or progressing further to second or third level education. I understand the concerns of the Deputy, and the Government is committed to emphasising and prioritising community investment, which is so important to communities right around the country.

Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan

I hope the Government will take it further and provide the €5,000 waiver I mentioned, because, as the Minister said, community education is working. I refer to two providers in Dublin Central, HACE on Henrietta Street and the Larkin Centre for the Unemployed on the North Strand. There were 20 participants on a community employment scheme, five of whom had to drop out for various reasons. Twelve of the participants achieved distinctions, of whom eight are going on to further education. This is working. Community education providers are being monitored and are engaging with everything that is required of them. However, they feel threatened, and when I questioned the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government about this, he was unable to reassure them that they would not have to pay a €5,000 fee. They do not have that money and that is the bottom line. If such a fee is imposed, they will have to opt out of community education. Because the providers know their communities, they know what is working and the methodologies to use. That is what they have used to ensure people return to full-time employment instead of having to take on part-time manual work.

The providers are engaging but they are asking whether there is a cull in community education. I take it from what the Tánaiste said that she will look into this. The providers cannot afford the €5,000 fee. Many participants do not even have the money to travel to their training. Significant opportunities exist in child care because those who have completed FETAC level 6 are moving on. There is nobody coming in to take those places because there is no incentive and, therefore, the child care facilities are also under threat.

The Tánaiste

I acknowledge the Deputy's commitment to community development, which is very important. Regarding SOLAS and the new structure under construction, it is very important we have a quality qualifications network. I have worked very hard with officials from my Department to improve the qualifications structure in order that when people go on a community employment scheme for a prolonged period of time, the have an opportunity to get FETAC level 5 and, in some cases, FETAC level 6 qualifications and, as the Deputy said, progress further. I have discussed these issues with people from the Larkin Unemployed Centre and other community groups and organisations. The Department of Social Protection has developed a model of talking to stakeholders and groups and we meet them regularly, for example, we had a five-hour session in Dublin Castle last Friday. SOLAS may undertake similar stakeholder meetings and the model might be useful to other Departments. I will examine this very important matter and return to the Deputy.