Deputies Richard Boyd Barrett, Shane Ross, Seamus Healy, Clare Daly and Tom Fleming are to share ten minutes. They have two minutes each. Is that agreed? Agreed.
Irish Water: Motion (Resumed) [Private Members]
The following motion was moved by Deputy Barry Cowen on Tuesday, 21 October 2014:
That Dáil Éireann:
notes:
— that the 2009 Fine Gael Party NewERA document advocated the establishment of Irish Water;
— the announcement of the Irish Water charges plan on 30 September and the introduction of the new domestic water tariff system on 1 October;
— the €172 million set-up costs of Irish Water;
— the €80 million being spent on consultants within the set-up of Irish Water;
— the €500 million ongoing estimated spend on water metering across the country;
— the €300 million in total annual domestic revenue accruing to Irish Water;
— the performance related award bonus structure within Irish Water; and
— the 700 staff due to be employed within Irish Water by the end of 2015;
further notes:
— the Government’s plans to subsidise Irish Water's domestic revenue stream through several options by an estimated €125 million;
— the estimated domestic revenue stream, after Government subsidies, of approximately €150 million-€175 million; and
— the number of changes to the water charges system introduced by the Government since 1 October;
condemns:
— the Government's failure to address excessive spending on outside consultants;
— the lack of information for members of the public and lack of a complaints system;
— the lack of communications between the Oireachtas and Irish Water;
— the lack of additional spending on the water infrastructure network; and
— the Government's refusal to acknowledge the ability to pay or otherwise; and
calls on the Government to:
— fully review the appropriateness of the Irish Water model from a funding and service delivery point of view;
— assess the actual sustainability of the funding streams of Irish Water;
— confirm that it has no intention of privatising Irish Water;
— establish an equitable regime for reliefs on domestic water tariffs;
— ensure the body is subjected to full Oireachtas scrutiny, not just internal political party forums; and
— cease any payment of bonuses within Irish Water.
Debate resumed on amendment No. a1:
To delete all words after “Dáil Éireann” and substitute the following:
“supports the establishment of Irish Water as a long-term strategic investment project to deliver the necessary water services infrastructure and quality of services required to meet statutory compliance and demographic needs, benefiting Irish citizens and businesses;
recognises that managing our water resources effectively is also essential to ensure that Ireland can continue to attract major overseas investment and employment;
recognises that the legislation establishing Irish Water prohibits the privatisation of the company;
notes that:
— following on from the requirement to introduce water charges as part of the agreement with the troika, the Government provided for the introduction of a fair funding model to deliver a clean, reliable and affordable water supply with a charging system based on usage;
— the Commission for Energy Regulation, CER, has published its decision on water charges on 30 September 2014 taking account of the policy framework set by the Government;
— the CER have examined the establishment costs of Irish Water and approved €172.8 million on the basis that this investment will enable Irish Water to drive substantial cost savings and service quality improvements over the interim review period and for many years to come; and
— the CER has approved an extensive capital investment programme for Irish Water and, in its examination of Irish Water’s costs in the period ahead, set challenging annual efficiency targets for both operational and capital expenditure;
recognises the importance of ensuring that there is full public understanding of the rationale for the establishment of Irish Water and that issues of legitimate public interest arising in that context are addressed, in order to support public trust and confidence;
emphasises the commitment of Irish Water to addressing the issues involved, with a particular priority on actively reviewing its communications strategy to better reflect the needs of all stakeholders, including elected members;
welcomes:
— the progress with the roll-out of the domestic metering programme being delivered by Irish Water with some 450,000 meters installed to date, supporting some 1,300 jobs; this level of meter installation now significantly exceeds the 400,000 target for end-2014 already indicated to the CER;
— the indications that progress remains on track for the installation of 1.05 million meters, with programme completion likely to be ahead of the target - mid-2016 rather than end-2016; and
— the Government’s package of measures to ensure that domestic water charges are introduced in as fair and equitable a basis as possible, with particular reference to the following elements:
— Irish Water’s Government subvention averaging €537 million per annum in 2015 and 2016;
— each household will receive an annual free allowance of 30,000 litres of water and a corresponding allowance for wastewater;
— there will be an additional free allowance for every child under 18 years of age to cover a child’s normal consumption of water supplied and wastewater treated, 21,000 litres;
— household benefits package and free fuel allowance recipients will receive a €100 "water support" payment per year, benefiting 653,000 households;
— income tax relief on water charges will be available, at the standard rate, worth up to €100 per household per annum when claimed in the following year;
— charges to be capped for people with high water usage due to medical needs; and
— Irish Water to take account of the quality of services provided to customers, including circumstances where services are reduced or restricted, for example, due to boil water notices; and
— the Government’s intention to provide funding to increase investment in public water services infrastructure on average by €100 million in each of the years 2015 and 2016, including for a scheme to provide each household with a free fix of the first leak on a customer’s water supply pipe; and supports the Government’s overall water funding package, which balances the need for a sustainable funding model to support long-term investment in the sector, taking account of the relevant European rules on Government accounting, while ensuring that domestic water charges are introduced in the most affordable, fair and equitable manner possible.”
- (Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government).
In fact, there are only four of us so we will have two and a half minutes each. The people of this country gave their verdict on water charges last Saturday week when 100,000 people took to the streets and said they could not and would not pay the charges, and the Government had no right to impose yet another crippling tax on low and middle income households and to make them pay for what is a basic human right. That was the overwhelming sentiment; water is a human right. One's access to a right cannot be dictated by one's ability to pay. The Minister will be sure on 1 November that the demonstration was not a flash in the pan, because on the next occasion, instead of having 100,000 people on the streets of Dublin there will be thousands of people in hundreds of locations across the country as the movement against the hated water charges moves into every town and county in the country. The resistance will only escalate from there.
It is about time this Government realised that the people will not accept water charges and will resist them every step of the way. The Government should listen to the people when they say water is a human right. This is our resource and the Government has no right to hand it to a private company, to the consultants who are milking Irish Water, to charge us for a natural resource that belongs to the people.
Finally, I wish to highlight a shocking fact that has not been aired in this debate. I refer to the general conditions for a water and wastewater connection agreement, which, incredibly, states that under the terms and conditions for customers signing up to the agreement, Irish Water demands that a customer must receive written permission from it to put water flowing off a roof or even off paving stones into Irish Water's sewers. This is water from the sky - not treated water coming in through the pipes - but the water from the sky. Given that the charge is made up of 50% of water coming in and 50% water going out, this is setting the legal basis to charge people for water from the sky. This is what was done in Detroit and in Bolivia and it is shameful. This is being legally established in the conditions which people will sign up to. We are not going to pay for that; we will pay when God sends us the bill and God does not exist.
Leave God out of it.
This water tax is the ultimate hypocrisy. During the course of the last general election, the Labour Party opposed water charges. In the final days of that election campaign, the Labour Party produced the infamous Tesco advertisement which I have in my hand and which reads, "Look what Fine Gael have in store for you. Fine Gael - every little hurts". The advertisement includes a statement that Fine Gael wants to tax water at €238 per annum. This is utter hypocrisy.
The water tax is now being introduced by a Labour Party Minister. The Government has no mandate for this tax. The Minister of State's party stood in the general election in opposition to the tax and now it wants to introduce it, with no mandate whatever. These are hated charges and it is effectively robbery from people who cannot pay. Families have had enough and this is the straw that will break the camel's back. Irish Water is an affront to hard-pressed families who cannot put food on the table. The start-up costs amount to €180 million, with €80 million paid to consultants and huge bonuses for senior Irish Water management even if they do not meet their targets. If they need to improve they will still be given a bonus.
The Minister stated in his contribution that a water meter is being installed every 30 seconds. He is completely out of touch with reality because I can tell him that in Clonmel it has taken Irish Water contractors four days to do what they should have done in a day. I compliment and thank the residents for turning out to oppose the installation of these meters. I call on residents in other estates in Clonmel, Tipperary and throughout the country, to oppose the installation of these water meters.
Gardaí are being used and abused by Irish Water and the contractors and they do not like it because they believe they are being undermined. This should be stopped immediately.
In the late 1990s when Deputy Brendan Howlin was Minister for the Environment, a comprehensive review of the funding of local authorities was undertaken, including how water should be provided and funded. KPMG consultants were engaged at the time. Their written report concluded that the metering of domestic water supply would be an uneconomic proposition, having regard to the revenue generated; that the charge for domestic water and sewerage facilities is thus more in the nature of a tax and should be consolidated into general taxation. At that time it was agreed that the local authorities would receive all of the motor taxation revenue in order to fund those services. However, when this Government came to power it changed that policy and decided to put it hands into that money, take it from the local authorities and instead transfer it to pay the banking debt. Now the Government thinks it can dress that up in yet another austerity charge to get people to pay again for something for which they have already paid.
Listening to the Government one would think that there was never a pipe fixed nor any investment undertaken. In the 1990s, the Dublin local authorities reduced leakage rates to very acceptable best practice international levels simply by investment. Instead of wasting hundreds of millions of euro as is being done to install water meters and to set up this giant quango, investment in the infrastructure is a far better way forward.
People are very upset at the bonus culture particularly when set against what is happening for ordinary people in the workplace. They are upset by the discourtesy of Irish Water and they are upset at the ongoing mess. However, the big problem is that they cannot afford to pay and they will not pay for something for which they have paid already. That the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, would say that this was a modest charge, is sickening. The very reason the assessed charge is continuing is because the charges will be astronomical.
I was at a packed public meeting in New Ross the other night at which people showed me their meter readings. For example, a meter that was installed in July is now reading 93,000 units; a man showed me that his meter reading rose 3,500 litres between Sunday and the meeting on Wednesday. These bills are going to be astronomical and the movement against them will be even bigger on 1 November.
In these times of crippling austerity there is nothing that more infuriates the public than the squandering of public moneys and the imposition of new charges and taxes which further compound the existing and continuing hardship on a very suppressed public, hundreds and thousands of whom are living on a shoestring budget and enduring hardship in all its forms on a daily basis.
Irish Water has been built on a very weak foundation of a chronically weak and inadequate water network whereby many millions of gallons of water is lost through leaking pipes every day and many areas of the country have contaminated and polluted water supplies. In my own county, day after day on local Kerry radio there are announcements of broken pipelines, of water being temporarily cut off from periods of anything from 12 to 24 hours at a minimum and boil water notices are very frequently announced. These intermittent supplies are common in many parts of County Kerry and it is ridiculous to expect any of these householders and businesses to pay for a diabolical and inferior service. All Members are aware that this is reflective of a situation throughout the country. Irish Water must respond in a timely fashion to requests by Kerry County Council for approval to proceed with the replacement of these pipelines throughout the county and this work will cost many millions of euro.
I refer to a case of serious lead pollution relating to 275 homes in St. Brendan's park in Tralee where tests have shown lead levels of 15 times higher than the legal limit. The residents have unknowingly been drinking contaminated supplies for the past 60 years and currently Irish Water and Kerry County Council are being prosecuted by the Environmental Protection Agency for failing to replace these pipelines on foot of a pending court case. It is only now that action is being taken and the pipelines are being replaced but it will take a long number of months to do so. In the meantime these residents should be given an immediate exemption of all charges until such time as the pipelines are replaced. There is also a need for emergency measures to provide drinking water in the interim to these people. I ask the Minister to intervene in this case. I ask the Minister of State, Deputy Ann Phelan, to convey the message to the Minister, Deputy Alan Kelly, to intervene immediately and to sort out the problems for these residents in this estate.
The next 30 minute speaking slot is being shared between Deputies Buttimer, Kyne, Nolan, Lawlor, Dowds, Mulherin, Costello, Keating and O'Mahony, with three minutes each. Is that agreed? Agreed.
When people speak about Irish Water, there is a sense of a lack of information and communication. When we hear Irish Water speak about off balance sheet borrowing, there is confusion. The ordinary person has no idea what off balance sheet borrowing means or could mean. It would allow Irish Water to borrow money to invest more money than the Government could on its own. It would mean an extra €100 million in the calendar years 2015 and 2016. After years of under-investment, and Deputy Tom Fleming eloquently told us about the lack of infrastructure development in Kerry, this would mean we would finally have a capital programme of €185 million for water infrastructure investment. This would include €22 million for water supply schemes, €73 million for major wastewater projects and €90 million for wastewater treatment. This is money that was never spent by Deputy Cowen's party when it was in government.
A total of €4.6 billion in ten years.
Let us have a real debate about Irish Water, Deputy Cowen.
The Government would not let us. It closed it down.
We all agree Irish Water has failed to communicate its message in a clear, coherent policy. Before the campaign began it failed to consider the full range of issues and questions which would arise. We have had a confused message from Irish Water, and the confidence of the people in it has been eroded by its failure to communicate properly with them, not to mind the scaremongering by some of the people in the Chamber who would pay for nothing and want the Government to spend everything. They will go back to the policy of boom and bloom and look where that got us.
A simple question in the application form on a medical condition requiring the use of additional water is unnecessarily complicated. The form could be changed. I am chairman of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Health and Children which has asked the HSE to change various modes of communication, and it has done so.
As each issue has arisen, the company has set out different strategies with different spokespeople. It is time the chief executive spoke to the people clearly and cogently and outlined Irish Water's strategy and its benefits. To protect itself and enhance its image, the organisation must do this.
The regulator has a role to play regarding the size of the bills. Those of us who live in the real world recognise people are concerned about the bills they face. In many cases these bills will not be the amount that Deputy Daly is scaremongering-----
Or you could just abolish the charges.
-----or that Deputy Boyd Barrett roars about every day. His message is the same every day, to pay for nothing and the Government will pay for everything. That is what his message is.
Tax the corporations to pay for it.
There is a need to create certainty and offer people assurance. If Irish Water does this, it will be a good day's work.
I wish I could say I was happy with everything about Irish Water. I wish I could say it was running smoothly and there were no problems, but I cannot do so. There are many concerns. I agreed with and supported the establishment of a body because, in 2004, when I was a member of the local authority, we received information on an investment programme for the next three to four years, under which every town and village in the county was to be provided with new sewerage systems and connected to new water schemes, but this did not happen. There has been some investment but the grandiose plans laid out were not reached.
We have standards for drinking water and discharge into our seas and lakes to which we must adhere, and this requires investment. The rationale behind establishing Irish Water was to be able to borrow off balance sheet in order that it would not add to the deficit. We have targets under the stability treaty and other treaties by which we must abide and we are still working to reduce our deficit. There are fears with regard to privatisation. The legislation states the company will not be privatised and I believe it needs to be retained in public ownership.
With regard to the communication failures, a slight comparison can be made between Irish Water and Student Universal Support Ireland. In its first year SUSI performed very poorly with regard to information, answering phone calls and responding to communication via e-mail to Deputies and the public. This was rectified over a period and I can see no problems with its message. There have been improvements in Irish Water over the past week with regard to returning phone calls and e-mails, but this must continue and more work needs to be done to ensure all these issues are sorted out. Irish Water is not alone as a semi-State in having communications failures. Any organisation or semi-State body which fails to address the concerns of public representatives fails the people because we represent them and we go to semi-State bodies with the concerns of the people.
Queries have been raised over the past week about call-out charges, and perhaps the Minister of State, Deputy Phelan, or the Minister, Deputy Kelly, will clarify these. If there is a leak on the road or at the meter, it is the responsibility of Irish Water. If there is a leak in one's attic or driveway or the footpath within one's property, it is one's responsibility as a home owner, as it is now and as it was last year. I presume people do not have to call out Irish Water and perhaps we will get clarification on this. I presume they can call out their own plumber or carry out repairs themselves where possible. In such cases they would not have to call out Irish Water.
It is not right or proper for a newly established company to have the level of bonuses we have seen and it should be changed and, as other speakers have stated, this needs to be dealt with by the chairman and the board.
Service level agreements between local authorities and Irish Water are in train. In 2009 and 2010, we had issues because of the big freeze and the resultant problems with leaks and the necessary repairs. If this happens again, we must ensure the local authorities and Irish Water can work together and quickly to ensure any problem which may develop is dealt with.
There is genuine concern regarding the ability to pay and I welcome the Government measures put in place. There is concern and confusion about this and until all meters are installed, we need to consider a capped charge, especially where many adults live in one household. There should be a flat rate payment until such time as all meters are installed and people can get used to conserving water.
The level of anger on the streets of Galway about Irish Water is absolutely off the scale. I cannot genuinely tell people their anger is misplaced because this has been handled appallingly from day one.
Hear, hear.
The former Minister left an awful legacy for the post-reshuffle Government. When one introduces a new utility company which will charge people money, the first thing necessary is trust in the organisation. Instead of establishing a new ESB we have established a new HSE and the level of confidence does not exist. We have much work to do in the coming months to put in place something in which people can have confidence. One does not need to go much further than Galway to see what happens when water systems are not up to scratch. We had a cryptosporidium outbreak during which the city could not drink its water. People in Mervue and Shantalla could not be confident about the water because of lead pipes.
Water matters and people know this. They know there must be investment in it. We started off with miscommunication and bad communication, which left a vacuum for those who would never support any type of infrastructure or investment to fill with scaremongering and propaganda which has left people confused, worried and angry, and I cannot blame them. We have a very short amount of time in the coming weeks to address people's real concerns. There are genuine concerns about affordability, which I cannot tell people are unfounded. Two adults and two adult children attending university or not working will mean a very high bill for a house. It will be more than €500, which is a lot of money.
That is right.
It is a very large amount of money and we need to do something about it. We also need to ensure people have confidence the money they pay is used properly and there is accountability.
For example, the Committee of Public Accounts for which people have genuine respect in terms of its ability to hold organisations to account will not have a remit over Irish Water despite the hundreds of millions of euro the State will put into it. We need to remedy that and put in place proper Oireachtas oversight so that we can have a committee that will go through the fine details to ensure our money is being spent properly.
If we do not do this now, there is a real risk that we will lose the ability to put in place Irish Water, which we need. We need to invest in water. Just because things are starting to get better, it does not mean we are out of the crisis and that we suddenly have billions of euro to spend; we do not. We need this leverage to put in place the things to allow us to have proper water - the infrastructure and other things we need as a functioning economy and society. However, if we do not get it right very shortly, I fear for where we will be in a number of months.
I welcome the debate on this issue. I have always been in favour of people paying for water. It is a finite resource and it costs a lot of money to produce. That message has not been clearly set out when explaining why we are introducing charges through Irish Water. I also favour having a unified body. Kildare County Council is actually paying Dublin City Council for water that is produced in Ballymore and Leixlip; most of the water derives from County Kildare.
I am happy to note that the legislation specifies that this will not become a private company and will be held within the public domain for as long as the Government decides.
A number of issues have been associated with Irish Water and one of the main ones that has boggled me all along is the communication. As Deputy Cowen will know, when Bord na Móna has an issue, Gabriel D'Arcy is out front and when Bord Gáis Éireann has an issue its CEO is out front explaining the problems. We have seen the disappearance of the Irish Water CEO, Mr. John Tierney. He rarely comes forward to explain the situation and when he does come forward to explain something, it leads to more confusion. This needs to be changed dramatically. We need to have a positive communications strategy from Irish Water. It is very simple from my perspective. I can explain to people who come to me why PPS numbers are required. Why can that message not be put out there?
Irish Water has created a bonus culture and we are getting mixed messages associated with that. Given that there are no protocols between Irish Water and local authorities, some estates cannot be taken into charge. People are asking me who they should contact to get a light fixed or a footpath repaired because the estates are owned by developers who are bust. Local authorities cannot take them in charge because there are no protocols with Irish Water. I hope the Minister of State will relay this message because I have raised the issue with the previous Ministers on a number of occasions.
There should be an assessed charge until all the meters are rolled out. Until the people can believe that a world-class delivery of water service will be available, they should not be paying on the meter for water but on the basis of an assessed charge. As Deputy Nolan mentioned, we also need to take cognisance of families with students and the charge associated with that. I encourage the Government to have a cap on the payment for each such individual house.
I call Deputy Dowds, who has three minutes.
I was told four minutes.
Let me clarify. This is a 30-minute slot with nine speakers Deputy Kyne had four minutes and it is three minutes thereafter.
That is fine.
There is no question that the Government's back is against the wall on this issue and yet it is an issue we must sort out. We all know about the mess of communication, the consultancy issue, bonuses and so on. That obviously leaves a very bad taste in people's mouths when they are short of money and they see this as the straw that broke the camel's back in terms of charges.
I ask the Minister of State to consider the following issues. All people should pay a standing charge until all meters are installed. There is a need to clear up the nonsense about a €188 charge for a first call-out. Those kinds of threats should not be made to people. Local authorities should look after minor water repair issues to allow Irish Water to concentrate on the major issues of infrastructure for the entire country.
At the same time, we must have a good system of producing water both for the people and for economic development. If we do not succeed in this, we will be in really heavy water - if that phrase can be accepted. I point to some of the problems we have to get over. More than 22,000 families are still on boil water notices. The national leakage rate is over 40%. There is insufficient drinking water for the greater Dublin area, including the counties that surround Dublin. We have very little room for slippage because we are operating at well over 96% of capacity most of the time.
We need to invest in water and wastewater infrastructure which requires about €600 million a year. Given the state of the country's finances, Irish Water needs to be able to borrow money that does not appear in the State's balance sheet. It is vital that we succeed in this regard. We are in the last-chance saloon and we must deal with these issues.
I thank Deputy Cowen for introducing this Private Members' motion as it gives us an opportunity to discuss this timely matter.
Irish Water has not been a success to date as everybody has detailed already. In fact, Irish Water is rapidly becoming an expression of derision countrywide. We can see all the reasons: luxury offices; performance-related bonuses before it even gets properly started; buying expensive external expert consulting services when Bord Gáis Éireann was regarded as the most appropriate body to facilitate the delivery and establishment of Irish Water; and worse still, its failure to communicate to the public its vision, role and confusing charging mechanism. It has no credibility at present. It must be focused and it must step up to the plate.
That being said, the creation of Irish Water is necessary. We have had a disastrous situation with 34 local authorities which have provided a very poor service for the people. In County Roscommon, 22,000 people have been on boil water notices for the past four years. The advent of Irish Water will allow them to have water without the need for boiling by Christmas after such a long period of time. Even though the local authority was informed three years ago that there was ten times the acceptable level of lead in the water being supplied to St. Brendan's Park in Tralee, the residents still have to use exactly the same water because the local authority has not put the funding into fixing it. The work of local authorities in this respect has been very patchy.
The experience with Scottish Water has shown how a consolidated mechanism - a utility that is working well - can save up to 40%. I recently tabled a parliamentary question on the investment made in Irish Water over the last period of time. Over this year, next year and the following year €300 million will be invested - €100 million per annum - just on infrastructure. The amount invested each year is more than was invested by the Fianna Fáil and Green Party Government in the entire period of the Celtic tiger.
The Deputy should check those figures; he is wrong.
That was over a decade.
It is not one cent more. There was €4.6 billion in ten years.
Deputy Cowen can do the figures.
Those are the figures. Those are the facts.
The introduction of water and wastewater charges has come at an unfortunate time, immediately after the departure of the troika and the first recovery budget. One can understand that after those years of austerity, our hard-pressed citizens feel mugged when they thought there was light at the end of the tunnel.
One of the canards is that water is a basic human right and, therefore, it should be free. Food is a basic human right but people do not expect their supermarket or corner shop to give it to them for free. That is a simple fact and that argument should be dispensed with once and for all.
Unfortunately, the allowance structure that has been devised is complex and confusing and does not adequately reflect the principle of water conservation. For the next nine months, there will be a crudely assessed charge and it will only be in 12 months that the first metered bill will be sent reflecting household use. Even then, tens of thousands of homes will still not have a meter, which is not satisfactory. The Minister has stated that the Irish Water project is the largest in the history of the State since the introduction of urban and rural electrification in the 1920s and 1930s. Let us get this right. Additional funding mechanisms must be found to address the enormous challenge of providing a quality water service to the entire country as the people emerge from the long winter of discontent, which we have often discussed in this Chamber. Work remains to be done by the Government to streamline the utility and to soften the charges.
Earlier this week CER officials appeared before the Joint Committee on the Environment, Community and Local Government to discuss the issue of water tariffs in order that we could drill down into them and be satisfied about the various components that are being considered to price water provision. These include fairness, customer protection and so on, but a fair assessment of the meeting is that much of the data the CER is using are not scientific. For example, the representatives could not tell us the difference between the cost of producing water and the cost of treating wastewater. This was their explanation for water in amounting to 50% of the cost and water out also amounting to 50% of the cost. Some people do not, and will not, avail of the water service. Is this fair?
There is a confusion about the call-out charge. This charge is not fair. The allowances are also an issue, for example, for the number of litres of water people use, the allowance for children and so on. I am not being critical of the regulator but the officials have been given a timeframe and an assortment of ingredients to come with charges. We do not have sufficient information at this time to operate solely on a metered system.
Hear, hear.
Many other factors must come into play. Most countries have water charges, which are metered, and they are much cheaper. When a question was posed about this at the meeting, the CER officials explained that these systems took a longer time to introduce and have been on the go for a long time and they described them as incentive-based. We do not seem to be in that place. This, among other issues, is a source of much of the discontent among the public.
On the other hand, we have to do something. Up to 40% of water is leaking from the system while raw sewage is entering special areas of conservation and water courses and water passing through taps is not fit for consumption. Something has to be done because the current system is not working. Notwithstanding the figures that have been bandied about in the debate, water services infrastructure was not delivered in my county when the country was awash with money and, therefore, the system that divided funding between 34 local authorities was flawed.
There are good principles underpinning what is going on, but the bonus issue is a debacle. Until all meters are installed and more scientific data are provided, people should be subject to a fixed charge. However, they are afraid of the charges. Affordability is of great concern and I do not blame people for that. Data are needed to address issues about which there are questions because we must give certainty to people. We want to fix the pipes and get that work done. We need to put a price on that and translate it in an affordable fashion to a fixed price until we are ready to move on with metering, which will, in turn, lead to conservation and all the positive aspects of this project. We need to charge for water but it needs to be affordable and we need to remove the uncertainty for people.
I welcome the opportunity to make a brief contribution to the debate. There is little doubt that establishing Irish Water as a commercial company has been one of the most serious issues to face the Government in its term of office, having dealt with our financial crisis. The coalition partners have set out a path to recovery following the exit from the troika arrangement. By the time the Government took office, charging the people for water was a done deal and, therefore, it is unseemly that Fianna Fáil Members now seek the moral high ground, sitting back as if they bear no responsibility for what has been visited on the people. Sinn Féin's two-faced approach to policies is evident, both North and South. The party hierarchy say quietly they will pay the water charges while using the people as cannon fodder in this phoney war. As for the Independent Members who form the Technical Group, woe betide Ireland should they ever attain office. They cannot even agree among themselves who can speak, on what and when, as was evident when they brought about the adjournment of the House.
The set-up of this commercial semi-State company has not been without serious problems. The unprecedented volume of queries that has emerged and the inability of Irish Water to give the correct or, at times, any advice, to people are evident to all. I hear every day of people who are in fear of the average being applied to them, when there is scant information on what this average is based. People who make weekly payments towards their gas and electric utility bills want to pay their water charges in the same way, and I have requested the Minister to ascertain whether this can be delivered. These people and others, including the elderly, the vulnerable and the sick, are not clear on which allowances will apply to them when their special requirements are taken into account, but they have a justifiable reason for additional allowances. Irish Water has been allowed for too long to escape responsibility for providing an effective customer service model through which people can know and expect that the information given to them is correct and can be provided to them at the earliest opportunity.
While the national focus is on water, a transparent customer service charter and a system of timely and targeted delivery are needed. The Government has delivered on its commitments in respect of children, free allowances, tax reliefs and water support allowances for those in receipt of the household benefits packages and fuel vouchers; exceptional needs payments access to supports for the vulnerable and socially deprived; rebates to those who move from assessed to metered, where appropriate; discounts of 100% on the water element of the charge where the water quality is impaired; and a free first fix where a leak occurs between the boundary and the dwelling.
The Government has delivered an economy that is the envy of Europe. It has delivered a net increase of 61,000 jobs in 2013, which was the fastest rate of employment growth in the EU or the OECD. We need to do a job and I agree with Deputy Nolan that we have a limited time to get Irish Water sorted out in order that the people can have confidence in that utility.
This is another legacy issue the Government has had to address to make up for the massive under-investment in water services under successive Governments.
Hear, hear.
The Deputy is wrong.
Everyone accepts that the manner in which water charges have been rolled out has caused confusion and fear, which has been exacerbated by the inability of people to contact Irish Water to get logical answers. The staff at the end of the telephone line do not seem to be equipped to provide answers to those who want to pay for their water. This is a rehash, albeit on a more massive scale, of the arguments we had over SUSI and the household charge, which are a distant memory. I am glad last week's budget demonstrated fairness and reflected an effort to support the vulnerable. I presume when the finance Bill is published, other anomalies will be addressed. For example, people on group water schemes have always paid for their water and they also deserve tax relief.
There have been many calls during the past week for heads on a plate on this issue. I do not agree with that. We need to address this issue quickly to give people certainty. There are many ways this could be done, including an extension of the deadline now rather than at the last minute and elimination of anything that can be construed as a bonus. It has been stated that people at the top are in receipt of 19% bonuses while bonuses for people at the bottom are of the order of just over 1%. Even if acceptable, these bonuses, in terms of the manner allocated, need to be addressed. There is also a need for a total overhaul of the way in which queries are dealt with. I acknowledge there has been an improvement in this regard in recent days. The data provided in last weekend's newspapers in regard to call-out charges are ridiculous. This issue also needs to be dealt with.
There has been total confusion since commencement of the distribution of the registration letters. I was told yesterday by a postman who operates out of a small post office in my constituency of Mayo that hundreds of these letters are being returned every day. If that is what is happening in rural areas, one wonders about the situation in urban areas. This, too, must be addressed.
Government rushed it.
There is a need for greater clarity and efficiency. The best way forward is the introduction of a flat rate or fixed charge until such time as all meters have been installed. That is the solution and it would provide certainty. Most people accept that water charges are necessary.
This matter has been turned into a political football. As a result of under-investment in this area by previous Governments, this Government has had to address the issue. In the Six Counties people pay a household charge of between €1,500 and €2,000 per annum. Sinn Féin has said that there are no water charges in the North. There would be no need for the introduction of water charges here if every household were paying a household charge of up to €2,000 per annum for services.
The next 30 minute slot is being shared by Deputies Michael Kitt, Robert Troy, Billy Kelleher, Colm Keaveney and John McGuinness.
I commend Deputy Cowen on tabling this Private Members' motion. I agree with him that there should be no payment for water in the current circumstances. As every Member of the House has spoken about the confusion that has arisen around this issue, I am sure they, too, will agree with that. The question that arises is who caused the confusion. Prior to the local and European elections we were promised that the average water charges bill in respect of the average two adult household would be €240. This was later increased to €278, which is a 20% increase. This has led to some of the confusion. While an attempt was made to address some of the issues in the recent budget by way of the household benefits and fuel allowances packages, including a €500 tax rebate on water charges which would equate to approximately €100 per household, what is proposed is a very complex system. It is proposed to introduce a combination of charges per litre, an assessed rate in respect of apartments and other dwellings which have no meters, the free allowance, the tax credits and the benefits package, all of which will result in a very complex system.
Irish Water is being exposed as a badly thought out creation. Its creator, the former Minister of State, Deputy Fergus O'Dowd, has disowned it. The bonus driven culture of Irish Water was mentioned in this debate. We still have not been given answers about that. Rather than paying for a super quango, we should be investing in the water network. It has always been the view of Fianna Fáil that we should be seeking to bring our water network up to standard. We are all aware of the substandard water supply in parts of the constituency of Roscommon-South Leitrim because of which 21,000 people in Roscommon must adhere daily to boil water notices. The data in this regard for the country as a whole are 36,000. People naturally are upset at the introduction of this unfair system. Fairness should be at the heart of this issue. Deputy Cowen's Bill on water charges was based on fairness. One cannot charge for a service that does not deliver.
Another important issue is the financial burden on people of having to purchase drinking water ever day, as happens in many communities. I commend the National Federation of Group Water Schemes for its advice in its publication, Rural Water News. It makes the point in that publication that while group water scheme households on a public sewer will have to pay an assessed wastewater charge, those with septic tanks will not be liable for any charge by Irish Water. That organisation has also said there is a danger of people being charged for water and wastewater services by default unless they complete and return the application form issued to them by Irish Water. While the registration form was supposed to be returned by the end of October, which is only another nine days away, I understand an additional month's grace may be provided. I am sure the group water schemes will have the same option. There are measures which group water schemes can take to avoid charges. I hope they will do so.
Another important issue is ability to pay, which issue has been referred to by a number of Deputies. I have read the article by the Society of St. Vincent de Paul about people who are unable to pay water charges. A €240 charge was promised prior to the local and European elections. Charges in respect of some households, however, could be as high as €594. A bill of almost €600 is a huge bill. People are concerned that if the public subsidy in this area is decreased, home owners will be required to pay more each year, a concern I understand. There is also speculation that if sufficient water is not used, the charge per litre will be increased. We need clarity on all these issues.
On the group water scheme issue, there are many such schemes in the west which receive grant assistance from the European Union and the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government. Questions such as whether Irish Water will take over group water schemes, whether funding is available in that regard and whether Irish Water will provide water from public schemes to the group water schemes need to be answered. There are parts of this country that do not have any water supply. I have referred in the past to Kilreekill, County Galway, where people were furious when they received bills from Irish Water for €100 per household for a water supply they did not have. The headline in The Connacht Tribune at the time was: "No water - but here's your bill anyway". Obviously, those people will not pay a penny until they are connected to a scheme.
An article in last Tuesday's Farming Independent included commentary from the IFA and farming organisations on a review of water charges for farmers. Farmers in some counties have been told they will pay annual rent of up to €200 per meter. As the Acting Chairman, Deputy Walsh, will be aware, there are many fragmented holdings in County Galway. This means the cost for five meters would be €1,000. I believe it is wrong that this would happen. I am aware also that at a meeting in Kerry, farmers were told there was no clarity on whether farmers would be billed by Irish Water only or by Irish Water and the local county council. These matters must be clarified. The motion tabled by Deputy Cowen is sensible and practical.
I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this debate. It is worth noting the reason we are having this debate. It is taking place because of Government arrogance and incompetence. Last December, the legislation to give effect to Irish Water was rammed through this House in three hours. Every Fine Gael and Labour Party Deputy voted for the guillotining of debate on that legislation, thus shutting down constructive opposition from this side of the House. They knew it all. They knew how Irish Water was to be set up, what the pricing policy would be, the composition of the board and that the Commission for Energy Regulation was to be charged with the determination of prices. They did not care.
It was worth coming in to listen to the contributions of the previous speakers who now have a great sense of worry about the misinformation that is coming out. They are worried about the bonus culture, the set-up costs of €180 million for Irish Water and the hundreds of staff who have been employed by it who still do not seem to have any job to do. I can give the Minister of State an example from my constituency where major water pipes that serve half of County Westmeath have burst on two occasions in the past two weeks. A number of Irish Water staff have been allocated to, positioned and stationed in Westmeath County Council. Who were the staff who were called out in the dead of the night to fix the burst water pipes? It was not Irish Water staff but Westmeath County Council staff-----
Hear, hear.
------who were brought out in the thick of the night to ensure the provision of a water supply for people who would be using it the next morning.
Both Ministers and Deputies have come out in recent days and condemned John Tierney for his lack of visibility. Until yesterday he was about as visible as the Taoiseach, Deputy Enda Kenny, has been at an election time debate, that is to say, he was invisible, but it was not his fault nor the fault of the senior executives of the board of Irish Water. What they were doing was simply implementing Government policy.
A public relations lady representing Irish Water comes out to speak on the national airwaves at every opportunity. She is unable to outline the pricing policy or any of the issues relevant to the people who will have to use the water services provided by Irish Water but she is A1 at outlining the rationale for the payment of bonuses or, as the Government likes to call them, performance-related pay. Only yesterday we learned that workers in need of improvement, that is, workers who are not doing their job, will get paid. Is it any wonder there is outrage felt by the ordinary citizens, middle and working class people who are to the pin of their collar trying to pay the universal social charge, property tax and now another charge that is being lumped on their back to cover the set up cost of €80 million and bonuses. That is not to speak of a call out charge of €188 and a pricing model where a household comprising a mother, father and two adult children going to university will have too pay a bill of more than €500 per annum. I compliment the people who took to the streets to express their frustration at the way these charges are being implemented.
I, and most rational people, understand there is a need to charge for water. They know water is finite resource and that it costs money to treat dirty water and to bring a water supply to the home. Why is it that the same people who pay for everything are left paying for the Minister's incompetence and arrogance who did not allow Members on all sides of the House the opportunity to outline their concerns about the way Irish Water was being set up? If this was solely and exclusively about water conservation, why not bring in a generous allowance for every house over and above which people would pay for it? If this was purely about water conservation, which it is not, why was the proposed original allowance of 37,000 litres per child reduced to 21,000 litres? What this is about is implementing a Fine Gael quango that was promised in its NewERA document in 2009, ensuring the establishment of a super quango and that there were jobs for the boys. Instead of abolishing quangos, it has established another one that pays bonuses to its friends.
Deputy Kelleher is next on the list to speak. Does he wish to have a few minutes and allow Deputy Keaveney to speak first?
I will speak first. I welcome the opportunity to speak on this issue. The Minister of State should not be surprised that this issue is very topical on the floor of the Dáil because it is topical in every household throughout the country. The reason is because the way the Government has gone about establishing Irish Water and the way it will charge people for the provision of water services in their homes is simply unjust. Great debates have taken place in this Chamber in previous times but the bottom line is that this issue is affecting every household. That is the reason it is critical that people get a buy-in to how we fund our water services in this country. The consequences that have flowed from the proposal put forward by the Government to establish Irish Water are that the public simply have no trust in Irish Water. They see the bonus culture endemic in the organisation. The organisation does not seem to understand what is happening in terms of the cost to families or the cost to the organisation of providing water services and installing water meters. It denies there is a bonus culture and that bonuses will be paid, but we all know that they will be.
The Minister, Deputy Kelly, has been pirouetting around the issue in recent days, saying he will strong-arm Irish Water and bring it to heel, but the point is he is the kicking the dog he owns. He should be trying instead to direct Irish Water to a position where it no longer exists and to return to where we were in terms of providing water locally or regionally and in an efficient manner. The first bills Irish Water will send out next year will be ones to pay for itself. They will not pay for the installation of the water meters, repairs of water leaks or the upgrade of facilities to provide water services and the treatment of wastewater. None of the bills that will be sent to households will pay for any of that work, rather they will pay for consultancy fees and the cost of the employees' salaries and bonus payments. That is the reason there is huge anger about this.
I was never one to go following the crowd around the street but the bottom line is people of all shades of political opinion and none are genuinely very exercised about this. It is not about the fact they do not like paying. No one volunteers to post money to the Exchequer or a local authority but they understand that the provision of services costs money. They are adamant, however, that they get value for money spent, that charges should be fair and that the pricing model should take account a household's ability to pay, but none of this has been thought out. The reason it was not thought out is that this time last year the legislation was rushed through the Dáil without any debate and in an arrogant, parliamentary strong-handed way using jackboot tactics. No one was allowed to raise an issue on Second or Committee Stages. We were not allowed to raise the issues we were elected to raise. For all these reasons, the Government is in the position it finds itself. That is why the Minister, Deputy Kelly, is trying to disassociate himself from Irish Water and show he will bully it and sort it out.
The bottom line is that it was established for one reason only, namely, it was in the Fine Gael manifesto. It is was a central plank in its NewERA document and a central plank of the strategy of the Minister, Deputy Coveney, when he was the spokesperson in that area. He was the one advocating a national utility and it was to be a national utility for one purpose only which was that taxpayers would fund its establishment, pay on an ongoing basis for the use of its water services and, over time, it would be dressed up and packaged nicely, effectively and efficiently and sold off to private equity.
That is what Irish Water was being geared up for in the NewERA document. It was to be attached to a larger utility such as Bord Gáis or some equivalent that would have the expertise to ensure that in its infancy Irish Water would be able to move smoothly. More interesting is that PwC was the consultancy firm that warned the Government that if it went down this road it would have many problems with the establishment of Irish Water. It identified many reasons not to go down this route but the Government persisted knowing well that there was strong advice to the contrary. That is why this motion is before the Dáil today and why there were thousands of people on the streets of Dublin last week.
Tens of thousands.
It is why there will be tens of thousands of people protesting in every part of the country over the next couple of weeks. It is unjust, unfair and does not take ability to pay into account and more important, it is a Fine Gael policy to wrap up Irish Water and sell it to the highest bidder.
It is clear from the contributions of Government backbenchers that the future of Irish Water is not good. Irish Water is dead. For anybody who would deny that fact I repeat, judging by the contributions and participation of people who prevented a debate this time last year on this critically important subject, Irish Water is dead.
In 2011 a PwC report, commissioned by this Government, explicitly advised the Government not to proceed with the model it has proceeded with. The Government ignored the advice to set up Irish Water and hand it over to Bord Gáis. The rationale for that shift was to use Bord Gáis' expertise and internal technical supports. Why have we spent hundreds of millions of euro, from scarce taxpayers’ resources on outsourcing the expertise that the Government claimed existed in Irish Water? It has been warned consistently about this since 2011. What we have today is a quango. Information is blackened and denied to the Opposition Members tabling freedom of information requests and parliamentary questions. The Government has resisted responding to any oral question.
It is amusing that backbenchers talk about the priority of securing a Deputies’ helpline. A critically important resource is being stripped from local democracy. We had an accountable local authority and an organisation to provide answers to locally elected people but that resource has been stripped away. The Minister of State cannot argue that Irish Water is accountable. He cannot say that its executives will answer questions democratically to the Irish people. They might attend before a select group of Fine Gael and Labour Party backbenchers in committees where powerful people will sit around and decide how this should work. We need full transparency from Irish Water before Oireachtas committees. The Government has sought to cover up the inner workings of this arrangement but it should follow the example of successful investment in other contemporary utilities, particularly across the water. It has failed to do this.
Irish Water will reach a whole-time equivalent of 700 staff, with an additional 400 in the call centres, when it is complete. This does not include those working on the ground who are in local authorities. The Government has consented to the engagement of expensive consultants and their expenditure of €85 million since last April. That is a significant cost to the Exchequer. Many of those staff have been transferred from the local authority and left their pension liability with the local authority. I do not know the rationale for that, apart from what Deputy Kelleher said, that it appears the Government is fattening the calf and getting it ready for privatisation. Several concerns about many aspects of the tendering process were raised in the original debate when the legislation was being rammed through the House, have never been answered. That is why the former Minister of State at the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy O’Dowd, has said publicly that he is not satisfied, does not believe in the workings of Irish Water and has raised many questions which the Government must answer. At least after his demotion he has done some service to the people of this country by telling the truth. Irish Water is finished.
Irish Water staff have been placed on top of an expensive hybrid of a quango never before seen in this country. This body is not accountable to this House, apart from meeting select committees with Fine Gael and Labour Members and is not accountable to the people. We have consistently warned the Government of our concerns about this.
Under the parent company, recently re-named Ervia, 700 staff are entitled to performance-related pay. I acknowledge RTÉ’s commitment to the subject. In its “This Week” programme last week it was revealed that staff whose superiors identified them as “needing improvement” would gain a 19% bonus. How difficult it is for people who are struggling to know that all those people must do to receive a 19% bonus is be mediocre or adequate.
They are not doing their job at all.
This is an insult and an injury to people who struggle every day. One person said to me this week, "It is not the lies that bother me, it is the insult to my intelligence". The Government has lost the middle ground and the public does not support it on this project. This week the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Harris, indicated the board would have to change. There has been a media frenzy with language ramped up against John Tierney but the Government has not done the real U-turn here. It has not had the humility to recognise that the public does not support this project. This is a mistake. People fear the prospect of the spiralling cost. They cannot shoulder the weight of this cost. This is a mess. The Government should have had the humility to come into this House and acknowledge that.
The absence of Government backbenchers this morning demonstrates that the Government does not have their support. They will be whipped in here today to go through the motions. The people do not support Irish Water. The Government does not have the support of the middle ground as it should know after the local elections and recent by-elections. The Government is so arrogant it does not recognise that this is a source of great concern for ordinary people. It must have the decency to put a halt to it, not just to ramp up negative back-briefing against the executives of Irish Water. It should be man and woman enough to say enough is enough, put an end to it and end people’s fear as they struggle to put food on the table every day. The cost is unacceptable. It is injuring society. The Government had the opportunity to do the right thing. It has so far failed to see or recognise that.
The Opposition is ranting and raving with no suggestions to offer.
What is the Minister of State’s suggestion?
Debate adjourned.