Topical Issue Debate

Wind Energy Guidelines

Deputy Regina Doherty

I thank the Minister of State for taking the debate. I had asked last week for it to be discussed on the basis that the closing date for submissions on a planning application to An Bord Pleanála in my county is 1 December. We are naively waiting for draft guidelines, which the Department promised would be published a number of weeks ago. However, because of a delay, these will not be published and it appears from communication with the Department that we will not get the fully revised guidelines until January or February 2015. I, therefore, have a major issue that a large industrial planning application to build 46 industrial wind turbines, each 169 m high, will be scrutinised under guidelines that we all know are not fit for purpose and that are out of date. The reason we know that is the Government is in the process of introducing new guidelines.

I would like a commitment from the Department that one of two actions will be taken over the next number of days - the publication of the draft guidelines with An Bord Pleanála instructed to adhere to them pending the issuance of the revised statutory guidelines in January or the extension of the planning process to ensure the guidelines that will issue in January will be the ones under which the application to which I refer will be scrutinised. There is a rush on planning applications to ensure the pricing agreements signed up to by the previous Government with the CER under REFIT II can be adhered to. The reason for the glut of applications is the price per unit of electricity secured by companies. They will be scrutinised under guidelines that are out of date and not fit for purpose and that need to be updated. I would like peace of mind regarding the processing of this planning application and others in constituencies of Members throughout the country.

Deputy Helen McEntee

I thank Deputy Doherty for sharing the debate. Like Irish Water, this is an important issue, which we need to get right. Renewable energy is one of the major issues being debated currently. There are questions over whether such energy is needed and whether the infrastructure needed to generate this energy is required. Companies are trying to push through applications because this debate is taking place and they are fearful. We are facing the prospect of the construction of 46 industrial sized turbines in a small residential community in which I live. These will be 169 m high, not 100 m. These are unlike any that have been constructed in Ireland previously and, therefore, this is an extremely sensitive issue for those living in the area.

There are two sides to the debate but the current guidelines, which were put in place by the previous Government a number of years ago, do not take into account the size of these turbines. I hope the new guidelines will and that is why I am calling for them to be issued as soon as possible. I made one of the 7,500 submissions to the Department earlier this year under the review of the guidelines. The Minister of State's predecessor, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, promised the draft guidelines would be published in the third quarter of this year. The review commenced almost ten months ago but we have not seen any guidelines. I assume the reason for that is the Department needs to get this right and, like the Irish Water debacle, this is not something that can be rushed. However, this is a ticking timebomb for many communities. I would like an assurance that the guidelines will be published as soon as possible and that the projects in the pipeline will be subject to the new guidelines when they come into play.

Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government (Deputy Paudie Coffey)

I thank both Deputies for raising this important matter and for the opportunity to outline the progress to date on the ongoing focused review of the 2006 wind energy development guidelines. The Minister and I are precluded, under section 30 of the Planning and Development Act 2000, from exercising any power or control in respect of any individual planning application or appeal with which a planning authority or An Bord Pleanála is, or may be, concerned. It is a matter for the relevant planning authority to make the appropriate determination on a planning application or appeal, and my Department has no function or remit in this regard.

In December 2013, the Department published proposed "draft" revisions to the noise, setbacks and shadow flicker aspects of the 2006 guidelines. These draft revisions proposed the setting of a more stringent day and night noise limit of 40 decibels for future wind energy developments; a mandatory minimum setback of 500 m between a wind turbine and the nearest dwelling for amenity considerations; and the complete elimination of shadow flicker between wind turbines and neighbouring dwellings. A public consultation process was initiated on these proposed draft revisions to the guidelines and it ran until 21 February 2014. My Department received submissions from 7,500 organisations and members of the public during this period.

It is intended that the revisions to the 2006 guidelines will be finalised as soon as possible. However, account must be taken of the extensive response to the public consultation in framing the final guidelines. Further work is also advancing to develop technical appendices to assist planning authorities with the practical application of the noise measurement aspects of the guidelines. The revisions to the guidelines, when finalised, will be issued under section 28 of the Planning and Development Act 2000, as amended. Planning authorities, and, where applicable, An Bord Pleanála must have regard to guidelines issued under section 28 in the performance of their functions under the planning Acts.

Deputy Regina Doherty

Will the Minister of State clarify that his Department cannot interfere in the planning process and this means the application for 46 industrial turbines will be dealt with by An Bord Pleanála under the existing guidelines? Will he also clarify that if new guidelines are introduced in January or February and applications are still before An Bord Pleanála, they will be subject to the new guidelines? If not, has the statutory clock started ticking meaning they will be scrutinised under the existing statutory guidelines? Nobody is being disrespectful to or disingenuous with the Department. Nobody expected that it would receive 7,500 submissions but everybody is exercised about this. We are concerned that the Government is following the policy of the previous Government, which is based on outdated information and the Grid25 planning process. More important, wind energy projects are supposed to be introduced in co-operation with communities and in sympathy with the environment. These applications do neither but we are standing idly by and not supporting the people we represent in our towns and villages by allowing big business to come in and make money at other people's expense, which is not on.

Deputy Helen McEntee

I thank the Minister for State for his response. I understand the pressure the Department and both Ministers are under to ensure the guidelines are published as soon as possible. A total of 7,500 submissions is a large number to process. We are running out of time in County Meath. A second project is in train which proposes six turbines of a similar height. There are, therefore, two projects affecting a number of communities. If an application, which has been submitted, has not been decided on before the new guidelines come into play, must An Bord Pleanála, Meath County Council or the relevant planning authority adhere to the new guidelines or will they have to adhere to the previous guidelines?

Deputy Paudie Coffey

I appreciate that the Deputies have serious concerns regarding the purposed project but I reiterate that it is the intention of the Minister and I to publish new guidelines as soon as possible. It is my understanding that the existing guidelines apply to current planning applications but I will clarify that for them.

I must re-emphasise that the Minister, Deputy Kelly, and I are statutorily precluded from exercising any power or control in relation to any individual planning application. Planning authorities must have regard to planning guidelines issued by the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government. However, these are issued for guidance purposes to assist planning authorities in the performance of their functions. Ultimately, planning authorities will make their own decisions based on the specific merits or otherwise of individual planning applications.

As I have outlined, a significant number of public submissions were received in relation to the review of the wind energy development guidelines. The Department is currently carefully considering the issues raised in the submissions by local communities, the wind industry and other interested parties, in an impartial and evidence-based manner. It is my intention that the revisions to the 2006 wind guidelines will be finalised as soon as possible. It is also my intention that the final guidelines on wind energy development will have fair and reasonable regard to the interests of local communities, while at the same time recognising the importance of renewable, clean energy for the future of our environment and economy.

Post Office Network

Deputy Michael P. Kitt

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this issue for discussion and the Minister, Deputy Alex White, for coming to the House to deal with it. I recently tabled a parliamentary question to the Minister in relation to the business plan for An Post. In his reply, the Minister said that it was Government policy that An Post remain a strong and viable company in a position to provide a high quality postal service and maintain a nationwide customer focused network of post offices. The reply goes on to state that the board of An Post is required to approve a rolling five-year business and financial plan each year in accordance with the code of practice for the governance of State bodies. I am a little disappointed that the current five-year plan which will soon expire has resulted in the downgrading of many post offices and the closure of others.

The reply goes on to state that the company has begun work on its plan for 2015 to 2019 and that the Department will be engaging with the company over the coming weeks as the plan is being finalised. I would like the Minister to say that, in the context of finalisation of that plan, every effort will be made to support post offices. In recent weeks, I learned that Cappataggle post office, County Galway, will be closing on 31 December this year. The reply continues that a whole of government review of the scope for providing additional public services through local post offices is currently under way under the auspices of the Cabinet committee on social policy and that An Post is aware that this review is ongoing and engagement with the company is being undertaken when and as appropriate.

I was disappointed to read in yesterday's Irish Independent about proposed wage cuts for postmasters. The relevant article, under the headline, "Postmasters being forced to take pay cut of up to €30,000", refers to wage cuts of between €4,000 and €30,000, depending on the level of social welfare business generated by each post office. This is something about which I have not heard heretofore. I have never heard of a postmaster being paid on the basis of the amount of business generated. This news has stunned postmasters, many of whom have expressed fears for the future of their businesses. Administration of social welfare payments is a crucial form of income for postmasters and an important service for post offices. The Minister will be aware that earlier this year a Grant Thornton report, commissioned on behalf of the Irish Postmasters' Union, warned that the loss the social welfare contract by An Post would result in the closure of more than 500 post offices. It is a fresh blow to the future of the network if, as announced, these cuts are to be imposed. This will put huge pressure on businesses already facing enormous challenges in terms of remaining open and will also result in smaller post offices losing out on several thousand euros per year.

We recently learned of the closure of Cratloe post office, County Clare, in addition to the closure of Cappataggle post office, which will impact hugely on people living in rural areas. I know the Minister has already met with the Irish Postmasters' Union. I hope that he will agree to meet An Post and that he can provide me with more information on the business plan for the next five years. It is hoped this plan will propose new business for post offices such that we are not always hearing about the closure of post offices.

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Alex White)

I thank the Deputy for raising this important issue.

I would like to reassure the Deputy that the Government is committed to a strong and viable An Post and supports the maintenance of the maximum number of economically viable post offices providing high quality services on a nationwide basis. As stated by Deputy Kitt, the board of An Post is required to approve rolling five-year business and financial plans each year in accordance with the code of practice for the governance of State bodies. I understand that the company has begun work on the plan for 2015 to 2019 and my Department will be engaging with the company over the coming weeks as this plan is being finalised.

In relation to the post office network and decisions relating to the opening and closing of post offices, this is an operational matter for the board and management of An Post and not one in which I have a statutory function. The future of the post office network, including post offices located in County Galway, will only be secured by it continuing to provide services that large numbers of people and business users need and are sustainable in the long term. The post office network needs to develop so that it can meet the challenges it is facing in urban and rural Ireland over the medium term. In urban Ireland, increased broadband penetration, reduced mail volumes and the availability of alternative payment services is reducing post office business.

In much of rural Ireland, commercial business is moving away from smaller towns towards larger urban centres. This is marginalising the rural economy, drawing employment away from the countryside and reducing the level of economic services, including banking and retail, available outside regional centres. It has been necessary to undertake a whole-of-Government review of the scope for providing additional public services through local post offices. This review has been under way for some time under the auspices of the Cabinet committee on social policy. An Post and the Irish Postmasters' Union are aware that this review is ongoing and are receptive to exploring avenues for securing new lines of business for the network. I have met An Post and the IPU in relation to these matters.

I understand the concern of the Deputy and other Deputies about the future of An Post and the post office network. An Post is currently facing many challenges not alone financially, but also from the development of Internet-based communications technologies. Any decisions it may take must be considered in the context of maintaining a sustainable post office network. As shareholder, I have a concern regarding the ongoing commercial position of the company and I regularly liaise with the company in this regard. I acknowledge the pivotal role that post offices play in local communities, urban and rural, in both financial and social terms.

There is a strong future for the company and the post office network by leveraging its existing strengths to remain a significant player in the provision of Government, financial and other services. Securing the future viability of the post office network in the longer term will entail the network continuing to modernise and diversify, as it is doing, to provide services that its customers require. It has been long-standing policy that An Post remains in a position to compete in a liberalised market and to continue to provide wide-ranging services to both urban and rural communities.

Deputy Michael P. Kitt

I would like if the Minister would address the issue of new services for post offices. I recently saw a document which shows that post offices provide up to 28 different services. The provision of 28 different services in rural Ireland is good. It is important that the post offices providing these services are maintained. It is hoped that the driving licence service, which is proving very confusing, particularly in the west, could be provided by post offices. Motor tax and utility bill payments are other important services which could be provided by post offices. I hope this will be the case. As I said, it is important consideration is given to the provision of new services by post offices.

I have received a document from Post Office Users, a new organisation set up in County Galway, that refers to upwards of ten offices in the greater Ballinasloe area, which is only one post office area, having been either closed or downgraded. An Post proposes to add the closure of Cappataggle post office to that list. I am disappointed at that proposal.

When the post office in Killoran closed, people were told they could go to Cappataggle but now they have been told that is to close and they must go to New Inn or Kilconnell. It does not make sense that one post office after another is being closed. I hope this organisation will get a hearing from the Oireachtas committee and that the Minister will meet An Post to tell it what exactly the situation is on the ground.

I raised the issue of Cappataggle with the former Minister, Deputy Pat Rabbitte, last July. He said, "I would not throw in the towel on Cappataggle, known for its production of hurlers." He is absolutely right in regard to hurlers who are the Connacht champions. I am not throwing in the towel nor are the people of Cappataggle. I hope this decision will be reversed.

Deputy Alex White

I thank Deputy Kitt for his additional comments on this very important matter. I share the Deputy's views about the importance of the post office network and the affection with which it is regarded, especially by small communities in provincial and rural areas. I assure the Deputy that An Post will continue in its endeavours to retain and obtain business opportunities for the network, having due regard to competition and public procurement requirements, as appropriate. I am due to meet An Post tomorrow afternoon and the issues the Deputy raised will form part of the agenda for my discussions with it.

The post office network needs to attract business but that business and activity must have real substance to it. It cannot be contrived. I want to see Departments participating in this, as they have done, and other agencies of the State participating as well. I also want to see An Post and the post office network reaching out for new commercial opportunities so that they can attract business. That is the critical aspect of this. They can pull in business from the private commercial sector as well as from the public sector, Departments and other agencies, to which the Deputy referred. These are important matters.

An Post has advised me that there are approximately 90 post offices in County Galway. There have been a number of changes in recent months, to which the Deputy referred. There are risks, worries and concerns but relatively few post offices have closed since this Government came into office three and a half years ago. A great deal more closures took place in the period of time prior to that but we are doing our best, working with the Deputy, to ensure this issue is brought forward in a satisfactory way.

Industrial Disputes

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

I welcome workers from the Rhatigan site, who are in the Visitors Gallery. These workers from the Kishoge community college site in Lucan have endured months of absolute hardship and poverty in all weathers. They have been locked out by their employer and are owed thousands of euro in wages.

We welcome the opportunity to bring this issue to the attention of the Minister for Education and Skills and to raise it in the Chamber. For some reason, J.J. Rhatigan has 50% of all contracts under way from the Department of Education and Skills. The bricklayers who are on strike, many of whom have been on strike since last May, received no pay until July when one of them, Stephen Gleeson, received €5,292 which he thought was his own pay for those months but was informed that it was the total payment for seven bricklayers. That works out at approximately €5 per hour, if the workers were to accept those conditions. That is below the minimum wage. These are skilled workers who must work in all weathers with the toll that takes on their bodies. Essentially, they were then pressured to become self-employed contractors, which is an increasing practice in the building industry. For years, this has been flagged as an issue in Government contracts and private contracts. It has also been flagged to the Department of Education and Skills, the current Minister and the previous Minister. The Construction Workers Alliance, for example, has reported on bogus subcontracting, which would push workers back a century where there would no pensions, benefits or safety net.

Despite many efforts, these workers have not had a full audience with the Minister to discuss this issue. One would imagine the massive loss of State revenue from black market and bogus practices would be of major interest. I do not have time to deal with all of the issues but the key demand of the workers is that funding is withheld from Rhatigan, pending full investigation into bogus subcontracting and possible black economy practices. We ask the Minister to give that commitment to these workers this evening.

Deputy Joe Higgins

It is an absolute outrage that working men - it could be women in other circumstances - are forced to come to this House of Parliament, this Dáil, to ask the Government to implement its own writ in regard to how publicly-funded construction contracts, such as schools, hospitals and so on, should be managed to ensure that workers' rights and tax compliance are fully above board. What we have heard about the abuse of these workers is quite incredible. What is even more incredible are these practices of forcing construction workers, such as bricklayers and so on, to become bogus subcontractors, which they do not want to become. They want to be honest workers getting their pay, paying PAYE and their pension contributions. The system that operates means they are being forced, on pain of the sack, to essentially go into the realm of the black economy. That has been brought to the attention of the Minister's predecessor and very concrete details have been given but nothing of substance has been done to stop this. That is not good enough and it must stop, beginning this evening.

This is a grotesque abuse of workers, who must take strike action to protect the most basic rights. They have families, children and grandchildren and they have mortgages and rents to pay. They are skilled workers who over the past few months have, from dawn to dusk, been forced to be on the picket line and not on the building site earning for themselves and their families. It is quite incredible that this should be allowed to go on.

A Minister departed this House forcibly in recent times because he did not listen to whistleblowers who were telling the truth. The Minister should beware of that. I want her to give a commitment to stop these payments to Rhatigan until a round-table meeting as well as a full investigation take place and these issues are sorted out.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

The workers at the centre of this dispute are in the Visitors Gallery. To be honest, the most fruitful thing that could come out of the short time we have is for the Minister to agree to meet those workers to hear for herself the story they have relayed to us which has left them out on the picket line outside the Kishoge site for the past 11 weeks.

What is going on there is an absolute scandal. Rhatigan has approximately 50% of the publicly-funded school building projects which this Government has trumpeted as a stimulus measure that will create employment. However, we have discovered that the company which got those contracts is treating workers in this way and is engaged in what looks to me like fraud. There is really no other way to describe it because there are certain rules and criteria about what a subcontractor is and the workers do not fit that. They are not self-employed subcontractors. They were taken on and employed by Rhatigans, which did not pay them for weeks, and then they were told they were subcontractors.

The money paid for the work of seven people over all those weeks amounts to an unbelievable €5 per hour, which is less than the minimum wage. This is absolutely outrageous. Is this what is going on with the jobs the Government claims it is creating with these stimulus measures on all of the other Rhatigan sites or on other publicly-funded sites?

If it is, that is an absolute outrage. What we and these workers want to hear is that the Minister will cease payments to Rhatigan until these matters are fully investigated. I appeal to the Minister to speak to those workers now. She will be shocked at what they have had to put up with. It is absolutely outrageous and we hope that the Minister will respond positively and tell us that she will take immediate and urgent action on this.

Minister for Education and Skills (Deputy Jan O'Sullivan)

I thank the Deputies for raising this matter and want to outline to the House the measures I have put in place to ensure that contractors working on contracts awarded under the Department's school building programme, including Kishoge community school, Lucan, are compliant with tax and employment laws. I acknowledge the presence of the workers in the Visitors Gallery. I will meet building workers' unions soon. A date has been arranged for such a meeting.

As the Deputies are aware, in common with the rest of the public sector, all Department of Education and Skills capital works projects are tendered and awarded under the standard public works contracts as required by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform and the Government contracts committee for construction, GCCC. The guidelines require a competitive process to be carried out in an open, objective and transparent manner to achieve best value for money in public procurement. Essential principles to be observed in conducting all procurement functions include non-discrimination, equal treatment, transparency, mutual recognition, proportionality, freedom to provide service and freedom of establishment. Any contractor wishing to tender for any building projects funded by my Department must sign a personal situation declaration under oath confirming they are in compliance with regulation 53 of SI 329 of 2006 which requires the contractor, among other things, to confirm that it has not been convicted for failing to fulfil an obligation to pay a social security contribution or to pay a tax or levy as required under a law of the country or territory.

A building contract is a complex arrangement of contractual relationships between the client, the main contractor, specialist subcontractors, domestic subcontractors, suppliers of materials, suppliers of plant etc. In general all subcontractors employed on education sector building projects are employed directly by the main contractor or indirectly by the main contractor through other subcontractors. It is a matter for all subcontractors to agree terms and conditions and a schedule of payments with the main contractor as their direct employer. I am keen to ensure building contractors operating legitimately are protected while those who seek to avoid their obligations under the terms of the public works contracts will be reported to the statutory agencies and penalised, where appropriate.

The Department appointed Contractors Administration Services, CAS, in April 2013 to conduct random audits on school building projects to verify compliance with the relevant pay and conditions clauses in the public works contracts. In tandem with the appointment of CAS, the Department also provided an online complaint system on its website to enable individuals to bring to the Department's attention cases where they are of the opinion that issues of non-compliance are taking place.

CAS continues to conduct audits on school and college building projects and has been appointed to carry out a full monitoring service for the duration of the contract on Kishoge community college, Lucan. Any allegations of non-compliance brought to the attention of my Department on any school building site will be audited by CAS. Any irregularities uncovered in terms of non-compliance with employment law, enforcement and prosecution fall under the remit of the National Employment Rights Authority and the Department will report any discrepancies found to it. If an audit uncovers any other matters of concern regarding tax compliance or social welfare fraud, such matters will be referred to either the Revenue Commissioners or the Department of Social Protection, as appropriate.

In respect of the ongoing dispute on the Kishoge community college site, Dublin and Dún Laoghaire Education and Training Board is the client-employer under the contract. While my Department is the funding authority for the project, it is not a party to the contract and, as such, my Department has had no direct dealings with the contractor regarding this particular project. However, I encourage all parties involved in the dispute to use the appropriate industrial relations channels to resolve this matter.

As the Deputies may also be aware, the Government has recently approved the preparation of legislation to provide for a revised legislative framework to replace the registered employment agreement system, and I have recently met the Minister of State at the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Gerald Nash, to discuss the progress on this new legislation. I also intend meeting unions representing construction workers shortly to discuss their views on the proposed new legislation. The new mechanism will allow unions and employers to apply to the Labour Court to initiate a review of pay, pensions and sick pay terms of workers in a particular sector and make recommendations to the Minister for the making of an order in these areas. The new mechanism will also provide for flexibility in response to changing economic circumstances or changes in the make-up of a sector. The new legislation is intended to provide certainty for employees as well as for businesses tendering for contracts. It will also help promote industrial peace in the crucial construction sector, and establish universal standards which will help prevent Irish firms being undercut in tendering for contracts.