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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 21 Jan 2015

Vol. 864 No. 2

Mother and Baby Homes Commission of Investigation: Motion

I move:

That Dáil Éireann:

— having regard to the motion passed by Dáil Éireann on 11th June 2014 which recognised the need to establish the facts regarding the deaths of children at the Bon Secours Mother and Baby Home in Tuam, County Galway between 1925 and 1961, including arrangements for the burial of these children, and which further acknowledged the considerable public anxiety as to the conditions generally in mother and baby homes operational in the State in that era;

— noting that it is the opinion of the Government that these matters of significant public concern require, in the public interest, examination by the establishment of a Commission of Investigation;

— noting that the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs has led the Government’s consideration of these sensitive matters;

— noting the factual information compiled and the specific matters identified for further consideration in the Report of the Inter-Departmental Group on Mother and Baby Homes which was laid before Dáil Éireann on 16th July 2014 and which has assisted to inform Government considerations on the scope, format and terms of reference for a Commission of Investigation;

— and further noting that a draft Order proposed to be made by the Government under the Commissions of Investigation Act 2004 (No. 23 of 2004) has been duly laid before Dáil Éireann on 16th January 2015 in respect of the foregoing matters referred to, together with a statement of reasons for establishing a Commission under that Act;

approves the draft Commission of Investigation (Mother and Baby Homes and Certain Related Matters) Order, 2015 and the statement of reasons for establishing a commission of investigation.

I welcome the opportunity to bring this motion to the House. I begin by acknowledging the Irish women and children who were in mother and baby homes in this country in the last century. Many will be following proceedings in the House today with a great deal of anticipation. As Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, I believe that by setting up the commission with all the necessary powers to get to the information required we will come to a greater understanding of how it was that we, as a society, failed in our treatment of vulnerable single women and children in these homes.

Last May people in Ireland and around the world were shocked by media reports about what was described as a mass grave in the mother and baby home in Tuam, County Galway. The sense of indignation we all felt about this was palpable. While some academics had examined these matters, as a state we had failed to come to terms with a harrowing reality of our past; the manner in which single women and their children had been treated in mother and baby homes, how they had come to be there in the first place and the circumstances of their departure from them.

As Members know, I came into this office last July, shortly after a motion had been passed by Dáil Éireann in June on the need to establish the facts regarding the deaths of children at the Bon Secours Mother and Baby Home in Tuam, County Galway and the subsequent publication of the report of the interdepartmental group on mother and baby homes. As an immediate priority, I was concerned to meet and hear, at first hand, the accounts of many people and groups that had expressed views on the need for a full exploration of all the issues raised by the discoveries in Tuam. These included demands to explore a wide range of matters – many directly related to the disturbing account provided by local historian Catherine Corless; others related to the wider issue of mother and baby homes generally and the role they had played in Ireland for such a long period.

For those who gave me individual accounts of their experiences, I found them compelling and greatly appreciate the willingness and courage of those who shared their personal and often harrowing experiences with me. On my own behalf and that of the Government, I thank them for taking the time to meet me. Other advocacy groups, public bodies and political colleagues across the spectrum also provided me with a wide range of views, all of which assisted me greatly in focusing the terms of reference in what was an extensive scoping process, given the complexity and sensitivity of the issues involved.

At its meeting on 8 January 2015 the Government agreed the processes to establish a commission of investigation into mother and baby homes and certain related matters. The following day I published the draft order now before the House in the presence of former residents of some of these homes and their representative groups. The terms of reference have been developed having regard to the requirements of the Commissions of Investigation Act 2004. The order should be read in the context of the significant powers, procedures and protections laid down in the enabling legislation. I think all of the groups I met agreed that making this a feasible task which could be completed in a realistic timeframe was critical. However, this must be balanced with ensuring we do not compromise on the need for the commission to answer the questions raised. Given the breadth of the issues raised with me, this has been a challenge.

As Members of the House will be aware, when this debate began, the issues appeared narrow – the high rates of mortality and the burial arrangements. However, the debate broadened to the question of the operational arrangements in mother and baby homes and the care and welfare provided for both mothers and babies. As our work progressed, a further set of issues arose about the whole phenomenon of mother and baby institutions in Ireland as a response to the issue of crisis pregnancies over a much longer period of time. As individuals and groups made submissions and following the work of the interdepartmental group and my own meetings, it was clear to me that the issue of entry and exit pathways of both women and children raised further questions regarding the social, political and legal environment that prevailed and how it evolved over time. Further, the links between mother and baby homes and the issue of adoption, both before and after the introduction of legal adoption in Ireland, were highlighted. It included questions about children adopted and taken abroad and children whose parentage was concealed with and perhaps without the consent or knowledge of their mothers. As is clear, this is a much wider agenda than our starting point.

The Commissions of Investigation Act 2004 provides an effective, prompt and transparent mechanism to investigate complex and sensitive matters, while also respecting fair procedures and natural justice. I am pleased to bring to the House the draft order and statement of reasons for establishing a commission in accordance with the legislation. The terms of reference, included as a Schedule to the order, reflect the range of matters that we were asked to consider and are a fair and balanced response to the many requests for issues and items to be included.

As the draft order has been laid before the House and published more widely, for the purposes of the motion I propose to focus on its principal objectives and, in particular, the rationale for key provisions within the terms of reference. The draft order contains a number of preliminary recitals and four main provisions. The recitals provide details of the statutory powers under which the commission is being established by the Government and confirm the date of the Government decision as 8 January 2015. They acknowledge that the Government order may be signed by the Taoiseach when a draft of the proposed order and a statement of the reasons for establishing the commission have been laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas and a resolution approving the draft has been passed by each House.

Articles 1 to 3, inclusive, provide for the Short Title; define the relevant enabling legislation; establish the commission and task it with investigating and reporting on matters which the Government considers to be of significant public concern. This is the threshold for establishing a statutory commission of investigation. The terms of reference have been developed in accordance with section 4(2) of the 2004 Act.

Article 4 designates the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs as the Minister responsible for overseeing administrative matters relating to the establishment of the commission. I will receive the reports and discharge related functions under the Act. In addition, the order authorises me to appoint members to the commission.

The terms of reference of the commission are focused on a combination of four distinct factors. First, clarifying that the intended focus is on single women and children accommodated for the purpose of receiving extended and supervised maternity and infant care services in mother and baby homes. Second, defining the specific issues of public concern as discrete matters to be investigated. Third, specifying a list of mother and baby homes as well as providing for examination of equivalent experiences within the network of county homes. Fourth, defining the relevant period from 1922 to 1998 while allowing the commission to reduce the relevant period in respect of any component part or institution if it considers it appropriate to do so.

The approach taken serves to provide a clear and deliberate emphasis on the experiences of women and children who spent time in mother and baby homes during the relevant period. The motion approved by Dáil Éireann had a central emphasis on mother and baby homes. During the course of our deliberations a clear consensus emerged on the need to thoroughly examine the experience of those who spent time in mother and baby homes. Practices in these homes have not featured prominently in the various reviews and investigations to date. Rather, they have dealt with many of the past abuses inflicted on vulnerable citizens, many of whom were women and children. Accordingly, the terms of reference focus on institutions which can clearly be identified as having the primary function of providing sheltered and supervised ante and post-natal facilities to single mothers and their children, which included board and lodgings, as well as an ethos that those running the institutions considered would promote a regime of work, training or education as part of an overall approach to either rehabilitating single mothers before they left the institution or give them training to live independently. As established in the academic literature, in many cases institutional approaches were based on a moralistic approach intended to rehabilitate single mothers and to make arrangements regarding the future care of their children. On the basis of the available information I am satisfied that the 14 institutions included in the appendix to schedule 1 to the draft order meet these criteria.

It is clear from the available information that in some county homes mother-and-baby-type services appear to have been a notable focus of operations. For this reason the terms of reference provide that the commission will also consider a representative sample of county homes in its investigations and reports. The sample will be selected by the commission based on evidence of the extent of the operation of this specific function, considering factors such as the number of relevant births, the duration of such operations and the typical length of time for which these mothers and children were accommodated.

Article 1 ensures that the primary focus of the investigation relates to the experiences of women and children who resided in mother and baby homes over the period. The following matters will be investigated: entry arrangements and exit pathways of single women, including consideration of the extent of their participation in relevant decisions; living conditions and care arrangements in these institutions; mortality among mothers and children, including causes, circumstances and rates; post-mortem practices and procedures, including reporting, burial arrangements and the transfer of remains for anatomical examination; the extent of compliance with relevant regulatory and ethical standards in respect of systemic vaccine trials identified by the commission as having been conducted on children in these homes; entry arrangements and exit pathways for mothers and children leaving institutions, including patterns of referral and relevant relationships with other entities; and the extent to which any group of residents may have been treated differently on a systematic basis on any grounds, including race, disability or religion.

The commission is tasked with undertaking appropriate comparative analysis, where relevant, to assist the general understanding of its findings. Article 2 provides that the investigation will cover the years from 1922, that is to say, from the establishment of the State, to 1998. The commission may reduce the relevant period for any part of its investigation where it deems it appropriate to do so. The series of definitions included in Article 8 bring additional specificity to these investigations.

Article 1.7 requires the commission to investigate the nature of the relationship between mother and baby homes and other key institutions, including children's homes, orphanages and adoption societies. In fact, some of these institutions were on the same sites as the mother and baby homes, while others were not. This will allow the commission to investigate concerns about how children exited such institutions.

The terms of reference require the commission to identify the extent to which children's welfare and best interests were considered in making arrangements for their placement, whether through boarding out, fostering or adoption, in Ireland and abroad. Furthermore, the terms of reference stipulate that the commission should identify the extent of mothers' participation in such decisions, including procedures relating to mothers' consent and the extent to which these procedures were sufficient to ensure that consent was full, free and informed. There appears to have been well-established patterns of referral to and through these services to final placements for many of the children. The commission will investigate evidence relating to patterns of referral, relationships and co-operation with other entities and intermediary organisations as well as any systematic arrangements for the placement of children. This will allow the commission sufficient scope to examine both the issue of placing such children for adoption abroad as well as examining situations in which the child's parentage was concealed either by omission or sometimes by illegal means.

The terms of reference provide for a comprehensive investigative framework involving interlinked and concurrent lines of inquiry. While Articles 10 to 15 provide some general guidance, the commission is independent in the performance of its functions and in deciding how best to approach its work. The general intent of Articles 13 and 14 is to reiterate the need for a prompt and thorough investigation and to provide that the commission should tailor its processes and methodologies as appropriate. In addition to the main investigation methods, the confidential committee provided for in Articles 3 and 4 will facilitate individuals who may wish to describe their experiences of living or working in relevant homes to the commission. On the basis of submissions from the public it is anticipated that some former residents will welcome this opportunity to share their experience. This module will allow the commission to ground its work in the reality of the experience of mothers and children in these homes. Since this approach allows for the telling of uncontested testimony in private, the committee will produce a report of a general nature on the experience of single women and children from this module. The commission will establish relevant protocols for the effective running of this module, including procedures to protect the identity of individuals who may wish for their identity to remain confidential during the conduct of the commission and its subsequent reporting. Alongside this, the social history module will provide context through an objective and comprehensive analysis of key issues. This module is intended to assist the commission's determination on a range of matters in accordance with Article 12. Significantly, this analysis will benefit from the extensive legal powers of the commission to access relevant records. Ten specific elements are detailed for analysis in Article 11 of the terms of reference. In addition, Article 15 provides that the commission should have regard to the facts established through previous inquires into related institutions.

I believe that the Commissions of Investigation Act and the terms of reference of the commission provide adequate opportunity for the commission to take an independent view of the adequacy of scope in view of its task. Since the decision to establish this investigation was announced there have been public calls for the inclusion of a broad range of matters. I acknowledge that some may have wished to include a broader and even more diverse range of matters within the terms of reference. While some of these matters are outside the intended remit of the commission, Article 6 provides certain opportunities for the commission to make recommendations. This will be relevant to those who believe that the process to date has not uncovered information relevant to their specific circumstances.

The commission may make any recommendations it considers appropriate in any of its reports. This is not limited to matters within the direct scope of its investigations and may include issues which it deems to warrant further investigation in the public interest. As part of the social history module the commission is tasked with reporting to me on any specific matter that it considers may warrant further investigation in the public interest but which is not covered by the existing scope. This mechanism takes maximum advantage of the investigative powers, resources and expertise of the commission and ensures that any additional matter which may warrant investigation can be brought to the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs for further consideration.

I was delighted to announce the Government's approval of a three-person commission chaired by Judge Yvonne Murphy. Judge Murphy will be assisted by the eminent historian, Professor Mary Daly and the international legal expert on child protection and adoption, Dr. William Duncan. These appointments reflect my understanding of the need for a depth of knowledge and expertise across these areas which will be required to allow for a comprehensive assessment of the issues and for well-grounded reports and recommendations in due course. I am sure Members of the House will agree that we are fortunate to have such distinguished persons willing to take on the task of investigating over three-quarters of a century of practices in mother and baby homes.

The terms of reference envisage the submission of a final report to me within three years. In addition, Article 5 specifies that the reports from the confidential committee and the social history module would be completed within 18 months. These timeframes are ambitious but I want to ensure these important issues are investigated in a timely manner given the age profile of many of the women and children who were resident in these homes.

On the basis that the commission would be expected to complete its work within 36 months, the Government has noted that costs, exclusive of third party legal costs, are estimated to be in the order of €21.5 million. This includes the funding necessary to meet the set-up and operational needs of the commission and some additional funds to meet the demands attaching to administrative oversight of the commission within my Department. An initial allocation of €6 million has been provided by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform in the Revised Estimate Volume to meet costs arising in 2015. The staffing complement of the commission will reflect the scope of the terms of reference and the ambitious timeframe. In addition to direct staffing costs, set-up and ongoing costs will arise for the establishment of the Commission’s offices at 73 Lower Baggot Street, ICT, records management, administration, travel and so forth. My Department is engaging with Judge Yvonne Murphy, the Chair designate, in this regard to ensure a smooth start to the commission’s work. The commission will also have the scope and funds, under section 8 of the Act, to appoint persons with relevant professional expertise and specialists skills to assist its investigations.

I believe that this commission will be critically important in helping us to come to terms with our own history and in understanding who we are as a people. The Government is confident that the proposed terms of reference provide an ambitious and appropriately focused set of tasks which can be accomplished by this commission within a realistic time frame and I commend this motion to the House.

I move amendment No. 2:

To delete all words after “establishing a Commission under that Act;” and substitute the following:

“— calls for Schedule (11) (B) of the draft Commission of Investigation (Mother and Baby Homes and Certain Related Matters) Order, 2015 to be amended by inserting after ‘their children’, ‘with particular regard to the practices employed in obtaining the consent of mothers who had recently given birth to their treatment’;

— calls for Appendix 1(1) of the draft Commission of Investigation (Mother and Baby Homes and Certain Related Matters) Order, 2015 to be amended so as to include the following homes:

Braemar House, Cork.

Ovoca (or Avoca) House, Co. Wicklow.

Regina Coeli Hostel, Athlone, Co. Westmeath.

Saint Gerard’s, 39 Mountjoy Square, Dublin 1.

Saint Joseph’s Centre (aka Saint Clare's Centre), Stamullen, Co. Meath.

Saint Patrick’s Infant Hospital, Temple Hill, Blackrock, Co. Dublin.

Saint Philomena’s Centre Lakelands, Stillorgan, Co. Dublin.

Saint Rita’s Nursing Home, 68 Sandford Road, Ranelagh, Dublin 4.

The Nurseries, Fermoy, Co. Cork

Westbank Home, Greystones, Co. Wicklow; and

— calls for Appendix 1(2) of the draft Commission of Investigation (Mother and Baby Homes and Certain Related Matters) Order, 2015 to be amended by inserting after ‘these mothers and children.’, ‘Any former resident of any County Home will be entitled to be heard by the Commission of Investigation.’.”

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this debate. As we all know, early last May Ireland was once again the subject of international media attention for all of the wrong reasons because of the story about mass graves at the Tuam mother and baby home. The coverage at the time and subsequent contributions to the debate proved to be sensational and paid little regard to the fact that what was being said and reported had a very real impact on the lives of many families. I am conscious that what we say here today, as well as what we say into the future, has a real impact on so many people's lives.

The most positive outcome of this story was that it proved to be a catalyst for the establishment of a commission of investigation. From the outset, my party and I advocated and supported the establishment of this commission in order to shine a light and to establish the true facts about what took place in the dark days of our past. We have heard stories of many barbaric practices visited upon women solely and exclusively because they had children out of wedlock. We have heard stories from this era of children who, because they were born to unmarried mothers, were treated like chattels rather than human beings. I wish to put on the record of this House my admiration for and thanks to the many survivors who came forward and spoke so movingly and truthfully and who chose to share their very personal stories so that the terms of reference of the commission could meet the expectations of the many women and children who went through these institutions. I wish to acknowledge the presence of a number of those women in the Public Gallery today.

I use the word "institutions" rather than "homes" because when one thinks of homes, one thinks of places of love and security, where people feel safe. When one listened to the women's stories, there was no feeling of love or security. I was very humbled to hear the stories that the women chose to share with us. I heard stories of siblings in the same institution who did not know they were brother and sister and of identity theft. Such stories made me realise just how fortunate I was to grow up in a loving home. It also made me realise that we, as legislators, are in a very fortunate position. We are in the privileged position of being able to ensure that the people who had to endure many years of suffering in these institutions can have their stories heard. A proper commission of investigation is being set up so that their stories will be heard, the State can apologise and those who were responsible for barbaric practices can be held to account. That is what we must do and we have to get it right.

I must acknowledge the role played by the Minister and his officials. To be honest, I was worried at the outset that the terms of reference would be too narrow. I acknowledge that in hindsight, it was prudent to take additional time to meet the survivor groups and members of the Opposition and to hear the concerns of so many with regard to what should be included in the terms of reference. It must be acknowledged that the Minister went a long way and I want to put that on the Dáil record. The Minister listened to requests that the commission be made up of renowned personnel and appointed Judge Yvonne Murphy. No one could dispute that appointment. The Minister also listened to the request from survivors that an international expert be appointed to the commission and made such an appointment. I wish to acknowledge that fact and to wish the members of the commission and its staff the very best of luck. The Minister has also ensured that there is a tight timeframe and that the commission cannot go on indefinitely. That is important because many people, because of their age, need answers sooner rather than later. The Minister has included the entry arrangements and exit pathways of single women, as well as the living and care arrangements in these institutions, many of which were so barbaric as to be incomprehensible to us today. The mortality rates, for example, were astounding. We know that infants in these institutions were 3.8 times more likely to die than those born into a loving environment. Post mortem practices will also be examined by the commission, as well as compliance with regulatory and ethical standards. The commission will also examine the entry arrangements and exit pathways for mothers and children leaving these institutions.

The Minister said that groups were systematically treated differently on various grounds including race, disability and religion. He failed to recognise that one of the main reasons they were treated differently was their marital status, which must be looked at. We have all forcefully advocated that no institution should be left out. This should be an inclusive commission. I would also urge the Minister to ensure that it is the ultimate commission of investigation. Let us ensure that no victim is left out in the cold.

I support calls made by groups representing survivors that additional institutions be included in the investigation as this would save the State money in the long run by eliminating the need for further inquiries. The most recent inquiry established by the Government, the investigation into the Magdalen laundries, was widely criticised for lacking independence and transparency, two characteristics that are necessary ingredients for any inquiry. The Minister must not make the same mistakes. He must listen to advice and ensure the commission deals with all practices that resulted in the State and society failing vulnerable women and children who were commonly known as illegitimate at the time.

The Minister has consistently stated that, under Article 6, everyone will have an opportunity to share their experiences. This issue is primarily addressed in the social history module. There is no guarantee that a request by the commission of inquiry for approval to expand its remit would be approved. With a general election set to be held in the next 18 months, the Minister is not in a position to give such a commitment as he may not be in office when the commission of inquiry's first interim report is completed. What is the threshold for inclusion in the commission of inquiry's remit? Aside from the named institutions, the onus is on victims to prove that additional institutions warrant investigation. The starting point, however, should be to believe victims. We have acknowledged the contributions victims made in meetings with Deputies from all parties and groups and the Minister. This country has a chequered history when it comes to believing victims, especially children. Have we learned anything? Rather than re-victimising people, we should support those who had to deal with State sanctioned abuse. That this abuse took place in the relatively distant past does not lessen the crime as abuse remains abuse.

I received correspondence which stated that despite the use of the flexible phrase "children's home", the Minister more or less stated it was a matter for the commission of inquiry to decide which homes to investigate. While Westbank, Temple Hill et al. will probably be included in the inquiry, the fact that several of the best known and widely used institutions have been omitted by name is a concern that could be eased for survivors in an instant by simply including the names of a number of institutions after the generic list in the terms of reference. The relevant names are listed in the amendment. The inclusion of these ten institutions in the terms of reference will be vital to address the concerns of the survivor community. Given that the institutions in question will almost certainly be considered by the commission of inquiry, why not include them now and address the concerns of many individuals who would feel an enormous sense of relief if they were to see these names listed in the terms of reference?

The phenomenon of child trafficking is not a recent one. Many children who were born under the stigma of illegitimacy, as well as others, were trafficked. Children were conveniently exported for cash, without safeguards and with no regard shown for the constitutional rights of their families. Despite the establishment on 1 January 1953 of a legal framework for adoptions, many children were removed from their families in direct contravention of the safeguards and provisions provided for in the Act. I recently met a lady who recounted a powerful story in which described herself as being fortunate to have been adopted and to have escaped the harshness and bleakness of life in Westbank. What her story reveals, however, is troubling because her adoption was illegal and contravened the legislative framework that was in place. The Adoption Act refers to consent being full, free and informed and only an option for unmarried persons. This was not the case.

The investigation begins and ends with the prescribed list of mother and baby homes. The Adoption Rights Alliance fears that this places between 60% and 70% of all unmarried girls and women whose children were forcefully adopted beyond the scope of the investigation. The decision to exclude private adoption agencies must be revisited. It is well documented that abuse took place in the adoption system and it would be best to deal with this evidence by way of a commission of inquiry. As Deputies have repeatedly stated, the commission of inquiry must be the ultimate commission and one which allows all victims to make their voices heard. For this reason, I am disappointed that the adoption (information and tracing) Bill remains unpublished, despite being promised for the past four years. The Bill must not deal only with prospective adoptions. Legislation is needed to deal with all of those who wish to have the answers to which they are entitled. Failure to introduce such legislation would be a grievous insult to the mothers and children who bravely shared their stories with the nation and would undermine and undo the positive contribution the Minister has made.

This week, I was contacted in my clinic by siblings who had vaccines tested on them as part of a clinical trial. They lived in the vicinity of a mother and baby home and vividly remember the trials being carried out. They believe the doctor in question may have wished to compare the outcomes of the trial for children living in normal homes with those of children brought up in an institution. They fear their story will not be heard and despite regular contacts with the Department of Health, they have been unable to access their records. This issue must be addressed. As I repeatedly informed the Minister when we met, everyone must be made aware that this commission of inquiry is taking place. It must be advertised as widely as possible to ensure people realise they can come forward, be treated in a sensitive and confidential manner and have their stories heard.

The single most important issue for many elderly survivors is the failure to separate the commission of inquiry from an acknowledgement, an apology and redress. While the religious and the State are both culpable, the State is the ultimate protector of citizens. The United Nations Human Rights Committee has consistently criticised Ireland's failure to provide adequate redress in circumstances of State wrongdoing. The establishment of the commission of inquiry is an acknowledgement of wrongdoing by the State. It is disingenuous to fail to make provision for redress given that redress will become inevitable when the commission of inquiry delivers its preliminary report in 18 months.

The terms of reference have come a long way from those that were initially mooted, primarily because the Minister listened to Opposition Deputies, survivors and advocacy groups. Let us make this commission of inquiry the ultimate investigation and ensure no victim is left out in the cold. The Minister has an opportunity to leave a positive legacy in this area by doing the right thing. I appeal to him to listen to the concerns expressed in this debate and act accordingly.

Deputy Ó Caoláin's amendment cannot be moved until amendment No. 2 has been disposed of. It may, however, be discussed in the debate on the motion and amendment No. 2.

The survivors of mother and baby homes and similar institutions present in the Visitors Gallery represent not only themselves and each other but thousands of the most poorly treated of our citizens whose life experiences, exposed now as never before, stand out to the eternal shame of the State and all who contributed to its practices towards and treatment of single mothers and their children.

Successive Governments, in failing to offer a real and meaningful apology and redress, have compounded the survivors' hurt and pain. While the fact a commission of investigation is now being established is a welcome and long overdue development, I am acutely aware and very disappointed that many victims of that system have been excluded from the terms of reference of the investigation. I have previously expressed disappointment with the terms of reference for the commission of investigation into mother and baby homes announced last Friday week. While I acknowledge and welcome that the number of institutions included in the terms of reference of the inquiry has been expanded, I am mindful that a significant number of people will feel excluded and marginalised, even shunned, by the Government's refusal to include the institution or setting that dominates their childhood memory.

The Minister, Deputy James Reilly, is the third Minister we have engaged with on this issue. While the number of homes to be addressed has increased from nine to 14, significant exclusions such as the Magdalen laundries and Westbank remain. We presented an extensive submission to the Minister with significant recommendations following continuous consultation with survivors and advocacy groups. I repeatedly emphasised to the Minister and to his predecessor the importance of inclusivity, of leaving no one out and of not presenting a closed door to any survivor. Many of those who remain outside the scope of the inquiry will find that personal exclusion most hurtful. A lifetime of marginalisation is now to continue, with little prospect of even an acknowledgement of their experiences and their pain.

As the inquiry will span from the foundation of the State to 1998, it is also a matter of serious concern that many survivors are in senior years and may not live to see either an acknowledgement or redress. This process will be cold comfort for many whose individual and collective stories are an indictment of Irish society, civil and religious, throughout all of the 20th century. We see today's Dáil address of the Government resolution to establish the commission as an opportunity hopefully to secure the inclusion of all mother and baby homes and similar institutions. We have recommended a number of amendments, to which I will come shortly.

At this point, I acknowledge the work of Catherine Corless and of those in the NGO sector who have striven for truth and justice for all whose lives have been blighted by their experiences in these institutions. That a real and substantive opportunity for survivors to be heard and hopefully to be properly acknowledged is being established to date, its deficiencies aside, is down in the first instance, to their tireless, and at times unpopular, work on behalf of those who suffered so much at the hands of these institutions.

I have long called for any inquiry into mother and baby homes to cover all such homes and all aspects of the treatment of women and children, including high mortality rates and burial practices. When I spoke on Sinn Féin's motion on the issue in the Dáil in June of last year, I stated that an inquiry was absolutely necessary and that it must be undertaken as soon as possible. We have known for a long time now that women and children placed by the State under the so-called care of religious orders and other church institutions in this country between the 1920s and the 1970s were treated as the outcasts of society and as non-people. In July, I spoke out on the road-map set out by the Report of the Inter-Departmental Group on Mother and Baby Homes. I felt, at that stage, that it did not go far enough and that county homes and Magdalen laundries should definitely be included. The issues of adoptions, both Catholic and Protestant, and of vaccination trials should also be included. At this stage, there has been no word of redress of any kind in this report. That too, and much more, must now be addressed.

I also expressed concern at the appointment of Judge Yvonne Murphy to chair the commission. Judge Murphy was also appointed by the then Minister for Health, Deputy James Reilly, to report on symphysiotomy and she produced what I and many victims of that barbarous practice believe was a fundamentally flawed report. That said, I wish her and her co-members of the new commission of investigation success in what they are now to embark upon.

We have seen fully revealed the horrors of the industrial schools for boys and young men and of the Magdalen laundries for girls and young women. We also know of the regime endured by young mothers and children in mother and baby homes, including the effective imprisonment of pregnant women, forced adoptions and the sale of babies by religious orders to wealthy Irish-American families. We know of women and girls shunned by their families and disgracefully banished, put away and placed out of sight. We know of individuals who discovered late in their lives that they had brothers and sisters they had never heard of before, and some who had brothers and sisters whom they knew but were never aware they were siblings.

It is important to investigate the truth of past wrongs and past abuses such as those in mother and baby homes, not only for the survivors but also for the well-being of our society today and into the future. They were treated like subhumans, forced to wear uniforms in some cases and subjected to forced and illegal adoptions, as well as physical, emotional and sexual abuse. We must ask why was Irish society willing to turn a blind eye. What forces in their midst compelled so many to silence, to acquiescence? I hope the commission of investigation will speak out clearly on the underlying causes. Similar commissions of investigation into other human rights abuses should also be established, including, as I have already said, the survivors of symphysiotomy, another issue that has seen the abused turned away from the doors of power for many years. They too were young mothers subjected to the excesses of adherence to religious fundamentalism.

Foremost in our thoughts today should be the surviving mothers, who endured what was in reality their incarceration in these institutions, and the surviving adopted children, many of them farmed out or adopted, who wish to find out the truth about the identity of their parents and whether they have siblings and extended families. I hope that this resolution, preferably with our amendments, will help provide the information, redress and, ultimately, solace for all those affected, but I repeat that this can only happen if all affected are included. We cannot have a hierarchy of victims, with some deemed inadmissible.

I will now explain the elements of our amendment, which earnestly seeks to address what we believe are omissions and deficiencies in the Government's terms of reference and draft order for the establishment of the commission. I call on the Minister to give our amendment the attention it deserves and strongly urge him to amend the terms of reference and statement of reasons for establishing the commission of investigation. I will now go through some of the details of this.

We are conscious of the fact that Article 1 refers only to mother and baby homes and does not refer directly to related institutions and agencies. We seek to correct that. We note the absence in Article 1.1 of any express reference to inter institutional transfer across the island of Ireland, North to South or South to North and elsewhere. This is hugely important in the context of so-called "exit pathways". Not only in Article 1.3 but throughout the proposals, we note the reference to mortality and believe a reference "and morbidity" should be added. In Article 1.4, in the absence of an express provision directing the commission where evidence of mass or unmarked graves are found, we suggest it should endeavour to identify the remains, notify families where possible, establish cause of death, including by use of the most technologically advanced and scientific methods, and otherwise enable arrangements to be made for more appropriate reburial. In Article 1.8, we note the reference to religion, race, Traveller identity or disability, but there is no reference to marital status or socioeconomic status. We believe this is critical in regard to the women placed in these institutions.

Article 2, sets the timeframe to be covered by the commission to from 1922 to 1998. I would like to be able to affirm to the House that after 1998, there were no further concerns. However, I am not of that view. I believe the timeframe should be from 1922 to the present day. We also note the absence of the following provision, which should appear after Article 2 and commend that this be added:

The commission shall take proactive measures to alert individuals affected by its inquiry, in person where known or through advertising and by means of public statements, in both jurisdictions on the island of Ireland, in Britain, in the United States and in such other jurisdictions where those affected may reasonably be thought likely to reside, to ensure they understand their rights to testify in private or in public.

We strongly urge that every effort is employed to ensure the maximum number of people affected by the experiences that so many have had in their childhood are included so that no-one out of a lack of knowledge of what is taking place is excluded.

We also propose the following provisions should appear before Article 3. Pursuant to the provisions of section 11 of the Act, the commission shall provide for a public hearing of testimony by persons who were formerly resident or who worked in or were otherwise affected by the institutions listed in Schedule 1 during the relevant period as of right, if such persons so request or if the commission is satisfied that it is otherwise desirable in the interest of both the investigation and fair procedures to hear in public all or part of the evidence of a witness that the commission has called. In this regard, the commission shall make recommendations to the Minister as to necessary arrangements regarding the right to legal advice and or advocacy of those testifying before the commission. In this instance, this concerns not only those who are of the 14 institutions listed and the county homes. It is hugely important that all who have been through these experiences, including those whose particular settings are not included in the Government's list, have access not only to the confidential committee, but that they have the right to request of the commission of investigation that they be heard also in public. This should be a right for all who wish to take that course.

In regard to the recommendations made on the conclusion of either the interim or final reports of the commission, we recommend that one of the component parts of its consideration of the question of effective remedy must be official acknowledgment, apology and memorial. In consideration of the timing of remedies, taking into account the advanced age and infirmity of many of the identified survivors we believe it is important that the earliest opportunity is availed of to ensure the apology and acknowledgement is put on public record. We have listed ten related institutions for inclusion in appendix 1 and have added in eleventh place that any others that the commission may identify during the course of its investigation should be included. I strongly commend each of those we have listed and have argued consistently for their inclusion. It is important the Magdalen laundries, the registered adoption agencies and related institutions are also included in that regard.

I respectfully appeal, not only on my behalf and on behalf of Sinn Féin, but first and foremost on behalf of all of the victims and survivors, that the Minister favourably consider the amendment we have tabled and allow for the critical changes we believe are necessary to make this commission of investigation the one that everyone can sign up to with confidence.

I now call on the Technical Group. Deputy Catherine Murphy is sharing time with Deputies Clare Daly and Maureen O'Sullivan.

I welcome the establishment of the commission of inquiry and believe its terms of reference are broad-ranging and well thought out. The fact there will be an interim report and that flexibility has been built into the terms of reference is positive.

I acknowledge the work of Catherine Corless and believe we would not be here today but for the information she unearthed. The image she exposed of the remains of children and babies who died in Tuam is haunting and sent shock waves not just across the country but internationally. When we consider that at around that same time the Luas works were going in Dublin and the city centre came to a standstill when historical remains were unearthed outside Trinity College, not to deal with these remains in an equal manner reaffirms posthumously the status these children had in life. It is vital that this issue is dealt with in the terms of reference and it is.

This commission should not just be about restorative justice or about issuing a State apology, but about learning important lessons as a people and being true to the principles on which the State was founded. The Proclamation stated:

The Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and all of its parts, ... cherishing all the children of the nation equally.

We have let whole sections of our country down and denied the principles on which the State was founded.

The litany of issues, including in industrial schools, reinforces the necessity for us to learn lessons and to build a different republic in which we are true to the principles on which the State was founded.

The terms of reference cover the years 1922 to 1998. Some institutions existed prior to the foundation of the State but nothing was done to reform them with the State reinforcing inequality rather than reforming them. The church was trusted as though it was an arm of the State even though it was known incredible cruelty was taking place. The State had no entitlement to do that.

This is not about only the mother and baby homes; it is also about people who were fostered and used, for example, in agricultural labour and so on. The flexibility of the terms of reference needs to cater for that, as they did in the case of the Magdalen laundries. The UN report called it when we could not call it by stating people were incarcerated in the Magdalen laundries. The report pulled no punches stating they were places of forced labour with slavery-like conditions. The Minister said there would be flexibility in the terms of reference, which I have acknowledged, but the issues relating to the Magdalen laundries have not been concluded. I would like that flexibility fully exploited if the terms of reference are not amended because, for example, some religious institutions have been less than forthcoming with information. As has been pointed out previously, even today the victims are not the ones who are believed. The religious institutions still are believed and that has to end under this commission of inquiry.

It has been a long road in the quest for justice for the people in the Visitors Gallery who, over a lifetime, have carried the damage done to them by the State. Like other Deputies, I would like to acknowledge that they are giants on behalf of their peers. They are true survivors on behalf of their brothers, sisters, mothers and those who did not make it this far. There is real hope for them that this will be the beginning of the end. It will never undo the damage that was done but we can acknowledge, address and learn from it. In that sense, the commission is only the end of the beginning because what happens next is the critical test of whether we are at an historic juncture.

There is a right way and a wrong way to do things. Yesterday, when Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan questioned the Taoiseach about unresolved issues relating to the Magdalen laundries, he talked around them too much. He tried to justify what was done by saying this was the first Government to look at this 60 year old crisis through the McAleese report and he said the Government parties had been listening carefully. However, by saying that, he proved he had not been listening carefully because the Justice for Magdalenes group has made the point well that the McAleese report was narrow in its remit and many of the issues the women need addressed remain to be addressed because the inquiry did not investigate the abuse and did not deal with burials and so on. I do not know whether this commission of inquiry will deal with these issues. While the Justice for the Magdalenes group says it has concerns, it will give evidence before the confidential committee.

The Minister has explained well that the terms of reference are flexible and are capable of being expanded. I accept that to a point but we should look at this project and not come up with the conclusion before we start. We have to inform the process and that is what the first part is about. That is a valid argument but a person does not need to be Sherlock Holmes to know that the Magdalen laundries and the ten outstanding institutions included in the amended terms of reference will turn up in this inquiry because they were part of the network that dealt with women and girls who had babies outside of marriage. On that basis, if the Government was listening, the Minister would include them now because if the commission is going to be what the Minister says it will be, it will deal with them anyway. That would be an important acknowledgement and I appeal to him to address that.

The commission is a tribute to much of the work he has done in this regard and it has the potential to be a hugely important body of work. Experts have been assembled and, for example, Professor Mary Daly is unrivalled in her field and she can play a huge role in delivering an important social project on the history of women who had children outside wedlock. However, there are two dangers in that. The first is that by spending a great deal of time on history, it will be used as a cover to justify or legitimise bad behaviour that no history could ever condone because while we can say it was a sign of the times and attitudes are different now, it is only one side of the equation. People were more in awe of the Catholic hierarchy, women had fewer choices economically in raising children and it was a different time but that cannot be an excuse for the torture and cruelty perpetrated by individuals in those institutions. When we look at history and say we are all to blame and society is to blame, sometimes that means nobody is to blame and people do not get the justice they deserve. We have to factor that into the equation.

All these issues are relative but we must also recognise that it was not long ago that these events happened. When we use the hugely offensive term, "rehabilitation for women" in these cases, we talk about mother and baby homes when everybody knows a woman went in and she did not come out with a baby in most cases. The baby either did not make it or ended up in the hands of people claiming to be its natural parents or was adopted against the wishes of the mother. These issues need to be resolved. I echo the concerns about the adoption issue which is a huge body of work that needs to be addressed. I do not know whether the commission should do that but it needs to be dealt with.

People have been hugely hurt and damaged by this. They have placed their trust in the Minister, which is an incredibly significant responsibility because their trust is precious. It has been abused and betrayed many times by people in this State and they cannot afford to have it abused again.

We used to consider the Famine the darkest moment in our history given the loss of life and the cruelty associated with the abundance of food available at the time while people starved. However, we know there have been much darker moments relating to industrial schools, Magdalen laundries, mother and baby homes, symphysiotomy, thalidomide and clerical abuse. There has been an appalling litany of tragedies and the one common denominator is the cruel and inhuman treatment of children and young women. We have had commissions of investigation, reports and a redress board but there were shortcomings in all the reports and people have been left dissatisfied. The same people have been let down in their lives year after year by their families, communities, institutions and the State. They still feel today that they have not received justice.

The first issue is the importance of getting this 100% right in order that there are no unanswered questions or outstanding issues following the commission of inquiry. It is hoped that the commission will be comprehensive enough to cover all this but there are concerns, one of which relates to the Magdalen laundries. There is a connection between them and mother and baby homes. I understand the concern that the commission will deal only with the role they played. Will that be sufficient? I note from the Minister's comments that article 15 provides that the commission will have regard to the facts established through previous inquires into related institutions. However, there are grave concerns about the outstanding issues following the McAleese report. While the remit was narrower, it did not take into account the 769 pages of testimony by women that were gathered by the Justice for Magdalenes group in which they expressed their pain and suffering. Any narrative has to honour the lives of those who lived in the institutions and how they were confined and treated.

There are issues relating to that report including discrepancies between the length of stay as reported in the McAleese report and discrepancies with other electoral registers and grave records. There is also a need to look at those Magdalen ladies who moved to other institutions such as nursing homes and who died in those institutions. They are not considered Magdalen people. There were concerns that the pain and suffering of the women were not taken into account. I think there is a big area there for the commission.

We know that the connections between industrial schools, Magdalen laundries and mother and baby homes so the natural conclusion is that they would be gathered. Should I finish and come back?

I understand I have two minutes and 21 seconds left.

Debate adjourned.
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