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Dáil Éireann debate -
Friday, 27 Mar 2015

Vol. 872 No. 4

High Pay and Wealth Commission Bill 2014: Second Stage [Private Members]

I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

I thank the Deputies who are present this morning. I welcome the opportunity to discuss the High Pay and Wealth Commission Bill on Second Stage. The Bill provides for the establishment of a high pay and wealth commission on a permanent basis in the Central Statistics Office to carry out research on levels of pay and wealth in the State, to inform public policy in order to promote a fair income distribution across society, and to provide for related matters.

I also welcome the establishment of the Low Pay Commission, which I hope will be on a statutory basis as soon as possible. I also hope that the new Low Pay Commission will quickly move the national minimum wage of €8.65 an hour to a national living wage which is calculated at €11.45 an hour.

The genesis of the High Pay and Wealth Commission Bill before us lies in my efforts and those of other Opposition Deputies in the 31st Dáil, many of whom are here this morning, to develop progressive budgetary policies to end cutbacks and austerity. Last October, I made an independent submission on taxation and spending measures which would have delivered a progressive balanced budget but during the preparation of those policies, I again noted a dearth of information across widespread areas of higher income and wealth distribution in Ireland. While there is long-standing useful information on much of public sector and social protection incomes, there are huge gaps and unknowns in the information on earned income and levels of wealth in the Irish economy. The Bill seeks to remove this serious drawback for future framers of public policy.

Over the decades, valiant efforts have been made to remedy this information deficit. Brian Nolan's seminal work in 1991 for the Combat Poverty Agency entitled The Wealth of Irish Households was a benchmark study based on the ESRI's 1987 Survey of Income Distribution, Poverty and Usage of State Services. Mr. Nolan's work famously began, "little is known about the wealth of Irish households and the forms in which it is held" and made the critical observations that general surveys do not provide a reliable source on small subsets such as the top 1% of the population, and that the best-off households are less likely to respond to such surveys.

The key definitions under section 2 are of "high pay", which is defined as "gross income from employment or other sources in excess of €80,000", and "wealth" which is defined as "net wealth, which is the value of an individual's gross stock of assets after the deduction of all debts and liabilities". Since 1991 and up to very recently, the Irish public and policymakers have had to rely mainly on international studies and so-called rich lists to gain any insight into the levels of higher incomes and stocks of wealth. One such service is the Credit Suisse investment bank's annual global wealth reports, and the Credit Suisse 2014 report puts Ireland into a list of countries with medium wealth inequality. That means the richest 10% of households, or the top decile, owns more than 50% of the nation's wealth. According to Credit Suisse, Ireland's top decile of households owned 58.2% of national wealth in 2000, 57.8% of that wealth in 2007 and still has a staggering 58.8% of national wealth in 2014.

The Irish public is also familiar with The Sunday Times rich list and Forbes magazine's "world's billionaires list", where 1,826 billionaires, worth $7.05 trillion are identified, and where most of the top 100 names have personal wealth greater than many countries' gross national product. A few weeks ago in the Sunday Independent, Mr. Nick Webb produced that paper's Irish "rich list" for 2015, with 300 billionaires and millionaires named having a total wealth of €84.4 billion, with a whopping increase in wealth of €13.65 billion over the past year. The top 20 has the usual super-rich personalities, including the Mistry family with €14.5 billion, Mr. Denis O'Brien with just under €6 billion-----

The Deputy should refrain from naming people in the Chamber.

-----Mr. Martin Naughton with €1.6 billion, Mr. Dermot Desmond with-----

No. It is established practice that we do not name people in the Chamber.

This is in the Sunday Independent.

I do not care where it is. This Chamber has its own rules.

U2 have €700 million.

Please adhere to my ruling.

It is public knowledge.

I am seeking that-----

There are rules in this House.

That is what the Bill is about. We want to know what those people have in order to frame policy.

There are other ways to find out. This is the national Parliament.

Mr. Nick Webb, a journalist, tells us that the sources for these figures include stock market shares listed in Dublin, London and New York, as well as stakes in private companies and the most recent sets of accounts from Irish, UK and Northern Irish company offices. However, he concludes that financial digging can only uncover so much and that some people were excluded from the list because their finance or the finances of their companies were too opaque for us to accurately assess. We know now, thanks to Swiss leaks and Luxembourg leaks, that the information gathered may not necessarily show us the full, real picture of wealth. HSBC Swiss accounts were held by 353 clients associated with Ireland to the amount of around $3.5 billion; of these 51% has an Irish passport or nationality. The Revenue Commissioners have recovered very little money from those accounts.

Those of us working closely with our constituents and listening to concerned Irish citizens know that inequality in Ireland is real; it is deepening in many areas and it is devastating for the majority of citizens in receipt of social welfare payments, in low-income employment and on zero hour contracts. The information gathered by the high pay and wealth commission I propose would further highlight the realities of wealth distribution in Ireland and allow for the Government to more appropriately address fiscal and economic policies.

The nine-person commission as proposed in the Bill will come within the established structure of the Central Statistics Office, with section 10 of the Statistics Act 1993 amended by inserting a new provision on a high pay and wealth commission. When I first prepared the Bill approximately two years ago, I considered amendments to the Companies Act and corporate governance but I eventually decided to go down the wealth commission route. The CSO has the expertise and skills to complete the specific functions proposed. Under Section 5, the commission will have a core role of regularly informing the public about levels of income and wealth across Irish society. Data collection and compilation of statistics on income and wealth will be the starting point. The commission's research will include best practice models of income distribution and try to determine appropriate structures in which the setting of executive high pay and other remuneration will be reformed. It will also have a role in developing more equitable fiscal and national economic policies.

In a very small way, this work has already begun, whereby the CSO is a member of the Household Finance and Consumption Network and carries out the household finance and consumption survey, which was published last month. However, this survey is limited to only 5,419 households out of 2 million and the usual problems persist with obtaining frank disclosure of income and assets by the very rich, whose instinct seems to be often to hide this income and wealth. There are 10,522 households that are contacted by the CSO. The Think-tank for Action on Social Change, TASC, released its research paper, Cherishing All Equally: Economic lnequality in Ireland, on 16 February this year and it highlights the growing inequalities in our country. We are at risk of reaching US levels of income inequality, with TASC's research indicating that Ireland is currently the "most unequal country in the EU ... before taxes and social welfare payments are included". Some commentators took much consolation in the fact that we are in the middle band of unequal countries, but these include many countries from the "accession of ten", where there is gross inequality.

The TASC report cogently notes that "the two poles of economic inequality are the concentration of income and wealth on the one hand and the number of people unable to meet their material needs on the other". TASC notes that "data on income distribution in Ireland is incomplete" but estimates that the top 1% of Irish income earners have 9% of gross income and the top 10% have 34% of gross income and, crucially, 42% to 58% of Ireland's wealth. That indicates a need for the proposed commission. TASC concludes that gross income inequality in Ireland is the highest in the EU, while net income inequality in Ireland is close to the EU 28 average. It confirms the importance of progressive taxation and social protection. TASC also notes that while Revenue Commissioners data on income is an important source, it tends to act on "tax units" rather than individuals.

Many Deputies will be familiar also with the Pobal HP, or Haase and Pratschke, deprivation index, which clearly shows the geographical location of disadvantaged households in urban and rural Ireland. A recent Nevin Economic Research Institute, NERI, seminar analysed the changes in the composition of this index over time, including how some areas are very badly disadvantaged. Several OECD and World Bank reports also draw attention to a growing trend of income inequality across developed countries, including that entitled Trends in Income lnequality and its Impact in Economic Growth 2014, and many leading economists believe this growth in inequality undermines economic performance. Professor Joe Stiglitz, for example, argues that "ensuring those at the top pay their fair share of taxes - ending the special privileges of speculators, corporations and the rich - is both pragmatic and fair". The economist, Professor Paul Krugman, refers to the Luxembourg Income Study, which shows that primary income and assets are very unequally distributed in nearly all countries. Various IMF studies have shown that reducing income inequality through redistributive methods does not hurt economic growth and actually helps it.

Just after this Bill was drafted I became aware of the work of Professor Thomas Piketty, entitled Capital in the Twenty-First Century, and I subsequently heard him outline its thesis at a TASC conference in Croke Park. I read the book last summer. Piketty builds on the research methodology of Simon Kuznets, an important economist in his field, to put the income distribution question back at the heart of economic analysis. Piketty uses a wide range of income tax, estate tax and national income and wealth data from the US, France, Sweden, Britain, Germany and other countries to produce capital to income ratios for each economy over the past 300 years. That demonstrates the sharp rise in wealth and income inequality since the 1970s, and it parallels what happened in the 19th century somewhat. He attributes ownership of 40% to 50% of national wealth by the top decile in the US after 2000 to the unprecedented rise in top managerial "compensation" - we remember how that was Dr. Tony O'Reilly's favourite word - and to what he calls the "fundamental inequality formula of "r > g", where "r" is the average annual rate of return on capital expressed as a percentage of its total value and "g" is the growth rate of the economy. If "r > g" for a period, there will be wealth accumulation, and people on the lower end of the income scale will find it really hard to survive. For Piketty, the solution to "the central contradiction of capitalism, r > g" is "a progressive annual tax on capital" or wealth.

The American labour movement journalist and professor, Sam Pizzigati, has long advocated the concept of a maximum wage. In the UK, the High Pay Centre, an independent think tank, has made important recommendations on how problems associated with high pay could be tackled. It was called the High Pay Commission and it is now funded by the non-governmental organisation sector. Australia had a public inquiry which we could have emulated into some of the outrageous pay levels it saw, and that reported in 2009.

This Bill refers to "anonymised information" in Section 6(1) but the most transparent societies in terms of income and wealth are clearly Sweden, Finland and Norway, the latter of which publishes every citizen's income and tax details. Norway began this process in 1863 and its skatteliste, or tax list, includes everyone's personal income, tax burden and where each citizen ranks on a list of national averages. Would it not be wonderful to have that in this country? As Jan Omdahl of the Dagbladet newspaper wrote in 2007, is this not how a social democracy ought to work?

Section 1 of the High Pay and Wealth Commission Bill cites the Title of the Act and states that it will come into operation six months after the Bill's passing. Section 2 provides for the interpretations while section 3 refers to the regulations which the Minister for Finance may infer and lay before each House of the Oireachtas. Section 4 states that the Minister shall instruct the director of the Central Statistics Office, within six months of commencement of the Act, to establish the commission as an executive office of the CSO. Section 5 outlines the three main functions of the commission and section 6 outlines the specific research project known as the "Executive Pay Project". Section 7 allows the Minister to confer additional functions on the commission after the order is passed by the Houses of the Oireachtas. Sections 8, 9 and 10 in Part 3 of Act refer to the composition, staffing arid reporting of commission, while section 11 in Part 4 is the final section of the Act and provides for the amendment of section 10 of the Statistics Act, 1993 by way of adding a new subsection (4).

I am proposing in Section 6 that the High Pay and Wealth Commission will have a key role in beginning to address the problems associated with high pay, including very high levels of executive pay. Of particular importance is section 6(e) which deals with policy and legislative proposals in respect of bonuses payable to executives and the introduction of caps, timeframes and targets for such bonuses. I note that recently the chief executive of Bank of Ireland deferred some €150,000 of his €950,000 basic income, which was an interesting gesture. A crucial proposal is the development of pay ratios between persons receiving the highest and lowest levels of remuneration and other benefits across the economy, as provided for in section 6(f). The highest paid Irish executive, Owen Killian of Aryzta earned €15.5 million in 2013 alone through remuneration and stock options.

Excuse me, but the Deputy knows the rules of the House. Do not name people, please. It is not fair to the individual-----

That is what this Bill is about. It is about naming people.

I have to apply the rules of the House. The rules are that names should not be mentioned-----

The rules are ridiculous.

-----in this Chamber. Please adhere to them.

Okay. According to Paul Sweeney in a recent article in The Irish Times entitled 'Super rich or super angry: where are you on Ireland's income pyramid?', it would take a person on the minimum wage 8,836 years to make what that gentleman makes in remuneration in just one year. Other incredible earnings disclosed by companies listed on the Stock Exchange in 2013 included €12.2 million for the chief executive of Tullow Oil, €7.32 million for the chief executive of Kerry Group and €6.98 million for the chief executive of Smurfit Kappa. Compare these outrageous, outlandish and disgraceful figures to the measly €17,542 per annum that a person on the minimum wage receives.

I am proposing that the executive pay project will seek to establish a process whereby excessively high pay can be addressed at a policy and even legislative level by these Houses. Again, generating accurate information on the extent and levels of pay will be a key starting point for the commission. We should not be closing our ears and getting upset when we hear these figures. This is reality out there in the economy, as the Ceann Comhairle knows very well, given his business history. He knows a little about business, as do I. We need to know the facts. Actually, the working title for this Bill was "Paddy Likes to Know the Story", which I believe is one of the Taoiseach's favourite phrases. I am proposing that the commission will publish regular reports as part of this project and that it would prepare recommendations on the introduction of measures such as caps or pay ratios to halt the excessively high levels of pay awarded to executives, particularly in the private sector and to promote much fairer income levels for all workers and citizens.

I believe the establishment of the High Pay and Wealth Commission will be a very useful first step and a welcome addition to the economic research landscape. Its aim is to ensure that when Ministers come into this House they know what they are talking about in terms of income and taxation. That will allow us to have proper debates at budget time, rather than situations like we have just seen this morning where we are scared to talk about levels of income and wealth in this society.

I protect the Deputy's right to make any point he wishes. I only apply the rules in respect of naming people; that is all. The Deputy is quite entitled to make his points.

We will have to change the rules.

At the outset I would like to acknowledge the Deputy's consistent commitment in this area. The primary aim of his Bill is to establish on a permanent basis a High Pay and Wealth Commission within the existing structure of the Central Statistics Office. The main functions of this commission would be to research levels of pay and wealth in the State. Its research would promote a fair income distribution across the economy and inform public policy in determining rates and measures of taxation. It would carry out an equality audit of each budget, stand as a member of the European Household Finance and Consumption Network and would also have a specific remit to address the issue of high levels of executive pay.

There is one central reason the Government cannot support these proposals and I will deal with it shortly. Before that, however, it is timely to remind ourselves of both how the economy has been turned around, what the Government has done to protect the most vulnerable during the crisis and how it has brought forward measures to reduce inequality over that period.

The country has witnessed a paradigm shift in the economy over the past few months and significant changes are taking place at the level of both employment and unemployment. Unemployment has dropped by one third since 2012 and is now at its lowest level in six years. The ESRI is of the view that it will fall below 9% over the next 12 months. Almost 90,000 more people are at work since the launch of the first Action Plan for Jobs in 2012. This increase has been in full-time jobs rather thancasual or temporary jobs, with full-time jobs accounting for 86% of the jobs growth. A full 29,100 net new jobs were created last year alone, most of them full-time jobs. Tax revenue has increased by €925 million, primarily as a result of the improving economy, while the social protection bill has fallen by €240 million in line with falling unemployment levels. These figures illustrate the success of the Government's twin track approach of creating the conditions for job growth and helping people back to work.

The second element of Government's strategy is to reduce taxation on low and middle incomes. In this context, 410,000 low paid workers have been removed from the USC charge net over successive budgets. This policy of targeted tax reductions for workers will continue in the next budget. The third element of the Government's strategy is to introduce targeted welfare supports for people returning to work, particularly for the low-paid. From April, the Government will pay €30 a week to mothers or fathers returning to work from long-term unemployment for each child for the first year and €15 per week per child for the second year. As a package, the Government expects these measures to have a transformative effect on incentives to work and on the well-being of those at work, as well as having a significant positive impact on income distribution

Throughout the crisis, the Government has been committed to maintaining employment rights, protecting the most vulnerable workers and ensuring that in delivering a cohesive societal response, those who could carry the greatest burden did so and this process is continuing. The changes introduced in budget 2015 will be such that the top 1% of tax units by income will pay 20% of all income tax and USC collected in 2015, up from 19% last year. In contrast, the bottom 76% of income earners will pay only 21% of all income tax and USC collected.

Historically, the distribution of income, even in good times, has ebbed and flowed depending on capital utilisation and the share of labour in productivity growth. Globally, we are in that part of the cycle where the gap is widening. Here, by contrast, many commentators have noted that the impact of the policy responses to the crisis was such that income inequality actually fell during the crisis and remains below the levels of the peak of the boom, particularly following the redistributive effects of Government tax and welfare policy decisions, as has been acknowledged in a recent TASC report, which Deputy Broughan identified earlier. An ESRI paper of last July indicated that this reduction in income inequality was brought about through progressive changes to the tax system and the preservation and improvement of welfare floors. Specifically, while the rise in numbers unemployed in the period to 2012 moved a lot of people downwards in terms of income distribution, the maintenance of the welfare floor, in spite of the crisis, provided significant support. At the same time, the wealth and income of high earners fell dramatically over the period. For example, data from the Revenue Commissioners for the years 2007 and 2011, the latest year available, shows that the number of taxpayers with incomes over €100,000 fell by 15% between 2007 and 2011 and the total income of those earning over €100,000 fell by 23% over the four years. Research produced by the ESRI for the Equality Authority indicated that there were no materially different impacts of budgets 2009-2013 on a gender basis. This reflects the fact that the taxation and welfare systems do not discriminate based on gender.

The data illustrates that the burden of taxation increases required to protect those on low incomes or none was placed on the shoulders of those who could it bear it most, even though many had seen their own incomes hit by the effects of the crisis. This was the correct policy choice. It was different from that adopted elsewhere in the EU and globally where, in many instances, income inequality has increased significantly over the period. Making work pay, enhancing dignity at work and reducing inequality are cornerstones of this Government's agenda and are at the very heart of what I am seeking to do in government.

Regarding pay negotiations generally, I should mention that last month I established the Low Pay Commission on an interim basis to examine and make recommendations annually on the national minimum wage, with a view to ensuring that it is adjusted incrementally over time, having regard to changes in earnings, productivity, overall competitiveness and the likely impact any adjustment will have on employment and unemployment levels. I expect to put the commission on a statutory footing within the next couple of months and to receive its first recommendation by mid-July. Last month I also commissioned a study to fill the gaps in our knowledge of the prevalence of zero-hour and low-hour contracts and their impact on Irish employees.

I expect to have that report in the third quarter of this year.

The Government has also moved on a number of fronts in regard to wage setting mechanisms, more recently in approving legislation to provide for the return of registered employment agreements and their sectoral equivalents. This legislation will provide for the reintroduction of a mechanism for the registration of employment agreements governing terms and conditions in individual enterprises. I know Deputy Broughan will welcome that. This will enable workers and employers negotiate multi-annual pay rates and, for both sides, will bring budgetary and income certainty. The Bill will, separately, provide for a new statutory framework to replace the former sectoral REA system. Again, this will bring income certainty for the workers concerned. At the end of 2015, Cabinet approval was obtained to legislate for an improved framework for workers who seek to improve their terms and conditions where there are no arrangements to do this through collective bargaining. This legislation will mark the fulfilment of one of the most significant commitments in the programme for Government, which indicated that reform in this area was needed. I expect this legislation to be enacted this year.

Turning to Deputy Broughan's proposal, this is not a case where tweaking in committee could improve the measure. The single substantive proposal in the Bill is unacceptable because it would be wholly inappropriate to locate the body envisaged by the Deputy within the Central Statistics Office. As the Deputy must be aware, the CSO is committed to informing public debate through the provision of official statistics. The establishment of the proposed high pay commission as an office within the CSO would be entirely inconsistent with the mandate of the CSO as set out in the Statistics Act 1993. This Act charges the CSO with "the collection, compilation, extraction and dissemination for statistical purposes of information relating to economic, social and general activities and conditions in the State". That Act provides that the director general of the CSO shall have sole independent responsibility for the exercise of the functions of the CSO in deciding the statistical methodology and professional standards of the office, the content of statistical releases and publications, and the timing and methods of dissemination of statistics compiled by the office.

In addition, the first principal of the European statistics code of practice is that of professional independence. The code of practice makes a specific reference to statistical releases being clearly distinguished from political and policy statements. Official statistics, produced impartially and without bias, provide an essential underpinning for public debate. I am satisfied that the Bill would blur the lines between official statistics and policy and would as a result completely undermine the perception of independence of the CSO and its director general in the performance of their statutory mandate. The CSO's national employment survey already provides the best measure for assessing pay in the State. The 2011 data will be published in the near future, with data for the following years to be published shortly afterwards. One of the future objectives for the CSO is to publish the annual data within ten months of the close of year. This new method allows an annual publication of higher quality data with significantly reduced cost, and a considerable reduction in burden on respondents. However, there is all the difference in the world between publishing the data needed to inform debate, on the one hand, and taking part in or even leading that debate on the other. Quite simply, that is not a statistical function.

Both Deputy Broughan and I belong to a tradition that proclaims, "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs". We believe in a progressive system of taxation and the use of the tax and welfare systems, and other public spending programmes, so as to re-distribute wealth. Both of us, and many others, will have noted the trends in income distribution and income differentials that developed during the boom. We are determined to ensure that the recovering economy will not be built on such unstable foundations and will demonstrate a more manifest commitment to fairness. However, in moving from the general disavowal of "down with this sort of thing" to a more specific proposal, Deputy Broughan has come up with a suggestion that falls short in many respects because it falls between so many different stools.

The Deputy points out in his explanatory memorandum that there was a high pay commission in the United Kingdom. This was an independent, non-governmental inquiry, organised by public-spirited private citizens, into high pay across the public and private sectors. Its report led to the establishment of the high pay centre, again an independent non-party think tank, focused on pay at the top of the income scale. While the high pay centre asserts that it is "resolutely independent and strictly non-partisan", it does believe that policy and market failure in relation to pay at the top of companies has resulted in socially and economically damaging outcomes. It is a reforming, campaigning body. Public representatives in this jurisdiction would no doubt welcome the setting up of more think tanks, focused on various aspects of public policy and with various competing proposals for reform. I would also welcome such a development. What we would not do is confuse the role of a campaigning think tank with that of an independent State agency, in particular an agency whose critical functions, domestically and in our dealings with the European Union, require a strictly arms' length relationship with Government and a complete removal from policy formation and party political interference.

Of course it is entirely legitimate that both policy makers and the public should have information about levels of wealth and income across society. We rightly expect that work to be done by the Central Statistics Office and by other agencies, including the Revenue Commissioners. Very few would argue that it is not legitimate to hope, as the Deputy puts it in his explanatory memorandum, that increased understanding and knowledge would "help to improve decision making and the development of fiscal and budgetary policy to ensure a fairer income distribution and address the ever growing levels of income inequality in our society".

As the Minister responsible for setting up the low pay commission, I reject any effort, and I accept that this effort is not being made here, to make any facile comparison with that body, an entirely different body with a different remit. It is public policy to establish a statutory floor for pay, as everyone in this House accepts. The function of that commission will be to examine and make recommendations annually on the statutory minimum wage and it will look at other matters relating to low pay over the next period of time. It will also be required to ensure that its recommendations are evidence-based. Final decisions will be made by responsible Ministers. The low pay commission will not be seated in, or interfere with the independent working of, any other agency of the State.

If Deputy Broughan wants an independent repository of statistical information, he should call for that. If he wants an independent, non-governmental policy think tank, he should call for that. If he wants Government policy initiatives on the issue, that is the stuff of political debate in this House and elsewhere and he should call for that as well. What we cannot have is a proposal that ends up being none of these things because it tries to be all of them at once. I hope Deputy Broughan understands this point, and the manner in which it is being advanced. The CSO's established professional independence and neutrality should not be used in a way that may confuse its functions. There is nothing independent or neutral about such concepts as "fair levels of remuneration", "appropriate structures for the reform of pay", or "best practice models of income distribution". Put bluntly, assessing fair pay is an art not a science. It is the type of thing we should be doing in this House. Statisticians are no more competent to debate these issues than are staff nurses, teachers or stenographers.

Why have economists then?

That is a good point. In fact, it is most properly the role of public representatives, such as Deputy Broughan, myself and others in this House, who are mandated to consider such things. In conclusion, I again commend Deputy Broughan for his underlying concern for addressing the issue of income inequality in society, a concern we both share. However, these issues demand serious assessment and serious proposals for reform. I accept that Deputy Broughan has tabled a proposal here today, but for the reasons outlined, Government will not be supporting this Bill.

I compliment Deputy Broughan on bringing forward this legislation. Over all his years in the Oireachtas, these are issues that he continually highlights and advocates very strongly. Fianna Fáil does not support the Bill, which would create a body with a remit to make regulatory recommendations on the awarding of executive pay and compensation, while introducing caps on remuneration for persons working in large companies or public companies. As a guiding principle, there should be a clear link between remuneration and performance. Notwithstanding this, we believe that such a bill if enacted would have a detrimental effect on retaining existing foreign direct investment, FDI, and attracting new companies to invest in Ireland, who rely on high net worth individuals in executive roles. It would impact not just on foreign direct investment, but also on the very valuable and too often underestimated home-grown enterprises.

In the course of my contribution, I will touch on the following four elements to outline our concerns: priority focus should be on the low paid and improving their job security; successful companies should retain the ability to reward high-performing staff; the threat this Bill poses to FDI; and the effect of regulating and capping executive remuneration on the tax contribution to State, which funds vital state services and welfare supports. Priority focus should be on low paid people and improving their job security. Fianna Fáil believes that the utmost priority should be given to supporting those on low and medium earnings who are finding it hard to make ends meet.

This is set against the background of increased indirect taxes, charges, high rents and housing shortages as well as spiralling child care costs.

The Government has set up a low pay commission. The principal function of the commission will be to examine and make recommendations each year to the Minister on the national minimum wage. The independent body will perform an important function in applying an evidence-based approach to reviewing the national minimum wage. Fianna Fáil looks forward to making a detailed submission to the commission and commenting on the national minimum wage rate. We will not be found wanting in this regard.

The current industrial dispute at the country's largest indigenous retailer and the treatment of workers is totally unacceptable and illustrates the precarious position of those who are in part-time, temporary employment or on zero hour contracts. They have absolutely no security when it comes to hours or pay from week to week. The uncertainty around zero hour contracts prevents people from getting mortgages, entering rental agreements and being able to make financial commitments. It is a precarious position in which to place any worker. Many working families on low to medium wages are also struggling with high rents and spiralling child care costs. It is these people for whom public policy instruments are needed the most to alleviate the day-to-day financial pressures.

Successful companies should retain the ability to reward high-performing staff. The conventional wisdom was that executive pay played a role in the international economic crisis by encouraging excessive risk-taking. Understandably and as a consequence there has been support for the idea that the basic executive pay model should be changed. However, according to the Harvard Business Review, legislating and regulating executive compensation has the capacity to do real damage. The research has shown that the traditional executive pay model of using cash and stock incentives continues to work for the vast majority of companies. It also motivates leaders to steer their companies towards high performance. The pay-for-performance model sets companies up to succeed and the research shows that high-performance company chief executives get increased pay and low-performance company chief executives get far less. That is the view of the Harvard Business Review. Furthermore, chief executive pay can be self-correcting. As a guiding principle and business reality there must be a clear link between remuneration and performance. If high net worth company executives are not performing, boards can change executive pay elements.

Linking remuneration and performance is key. For example, we believe that there is a need for executive pay, particularly in the commercial semi-state sector, to be reined in. There should more effective long-term incentives built in and they should be aligned to performance. In many instances the pay of senior executives in the commercial semi-State sector is far too high. The bonus culture that exists in some companies is unacceptable.

Regulating the awarding of executive pay and compensation would be a real threat to foreign direct investment in our country. Latest IDA Ireland figures indicate that such companies employ 174,488 people in this country. The following statistics show the major economic impact of such investment: some €124.5 billion in exports; €13 billion of purchases from Irish suppliers; €1.4 billion in research and development spend; €8.5 billion in payroll; and €2.8 billion of corporation tax to the national Exchequer.

Thankfully, many foreign direct investment companies have European headquarters centred in Ireland, such as Google and Microsoft. Such FDI companies depend on highly-skilled individuals to work in senior positions in high-pay executive roles. Ultimately, Ireland needs more high-skilled and highly-paid people working in the economy. I believe this Bill would likely act as a deterrent and put at risk the likelihood of such companies locating here. Proscribing that such companies should justify paying high net worth individuals would be a hazardous regulatory environment to operate in considering they employ almost 175,000 people. If the Bill were implemented, would these companies have to justify paying high net worth individuals?

It is not only foreign direct investment companies that we should be concerned with. I believe our indigenous successful companies would have similar concerns. Too often in this country in public commentary we ignore to a great extent our indigenous successful companies - small, medium and large - and the considerable success of many of those companies in the past 20 years in internationalising their enterprises. According to the World Bank's Doing Business report and IBM's annual Global Locations Trend report, Ireland is ranked highly for its business environment. Legislators should be mindful that we should not row back on the conditions that attract foreign direct investment and employment, given also the importance of such investment in creating down-stream activity in our economy. It is a reality that such investment will need high-paying executives to sustain their presence here.

Regulating and capping executive remuneration would also affect the tax contribution made to the Exchequer. That helps to fund vital State services. High net worth individuals are rightly taxed on marginal rates and the premium universal social charge. These taxes and charges incurred are put back into the State or the Exchequer to help fund vital front-line State services, such as our schools hospitals and policing. In addition, taxes on high net worth individuals help to fund the social welfare system, which is vital for protecting the most vulnerable in our society. We all accept that more support is needed in this regard.

The Bill defines high executive pay as €80,000 and above. I will illustrate the total tax contribution of executive pay to the national exchequer. A person known as a high net worth individual on €100,000 gross pays 40% of total salary in taxes, PRSI and USC. For an individual on €200,000, fully 46% of total salary goes to the Exchequer. These examples clearly illustrate the major contribution that payroll taxes of such persons help in funding State services and social protection supports. We need a progressive taxation system and over the years we have developed one. Unfortunately, recent budgets have been regressive.

One instance of what annoys many of us relates to the lecturing from some of the so-called high net worth individuals. I remember, when I was a Minister some years ago, meeting the chief executives of several companies and their senior executives. They were lecturing us on the costs in the economy and the need to reduce costs, in particular, labour costs. I asked the people around the table who were lecturing those of us in the public sector what reduction in salary they had taken between 2008 and 2010. At least I got an honest answer. Each of them said they took no reduction, but they expected their workforce, the people on the assembly line and the floor who were doing the real graft to take it. They expected the Government to implement additional charges on those people. At least one thing I got out of that meeting was the truth from those people. They gave me an answer to the effect that, unfortunately, they had taken no reduction in their salaries.

Successful companies should be permitted to reward high-performing staff. Staff at all levels within a company should be properly rewarded. Further, highly-skilled employees should not be penalised for high productivity. I believe this Bill will place at risk the huge economic footprint of success companies, many of which have come to the country and many of which have grown indigenously in our country. It would put in danger some of the great investments and some of the successful job creation that they have provided.

For these reasons and for the other reasons outlined already, we do not support this proposed legislation. Having said that, I compliment Deputy Broughan. I said at the outset that since Deputy Shortall, Deputy Broughan and myself came to the House in 1992, I have listened on many occasions to Deputy Broughan advocate passionately and strongly for the need to ensure that people are properly remunerated, particularly those on lower incomes. I believe that the most pressing need is for the House to support those on low and medium earnings who are struggling to keep up with spiralling housing and child care costs and who are trapped in unsecure employment. This is where my party will be focusing in policy formulation. We look forward to engaging in putting forward ideas and policies that will help to bring solutions to the most pressing public policy challenges that affect all of us today.

I thank Deputy Broughan for bringing forward this Bill and for the opportunity to contribute to the debate. We need to imagine the country in a different way. We need to have some sort of vision for the type of country we want to create. We are in re-building mode at the moment. We need to imagine a country with better health care outcomes and lower levels of crime, one in which people feel safer and where there are higher levels of educational attainment. I believe we all aspire to that.

The issue is how one achieves that. It can be done through developing good institutional systems and proper investment in services. Substantial research has been done in The Spirit Level: Why More Equal Societies Almost Always Do Better, the fruit of 20 years’ analysis of equality around the world. The common denominator it found was that in countries where there are greater levels of income equality, there are greater benefits to society.

During the boom we often heard of people at chief executive level in the banks saying they would not get out of bed for less than €500,000. How often did we hear the argument that if one paid peanuts, one got monkeys? This Bill is not about begrudgery but about creating a better and more equal society. That can be achieved from the bottom up.

I welcome the Bill’s measures that provide a means of capturing information on pay levels which can then inform public policy, including how we budget. It is a well constructed Bill and Deputy Broughan’s thoughtful contributions are to be welcomed. Income inequality in Ireland is a real issue. Before taxes and redistributive measures kick in, we have the highest income inequality in the entire OECD, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, ahead of the US and the UK, two traditional liberal market economies. Dealing with income inequality should be at the heart of what the Government does, particularly in a Republic where every citizen should have an equal chance of having a good outcome in their lives. Sharing the common wealth should be part of this.

A recent report done by TASC, the Think-tank for Action on Social Change, on income inequality showed a very interesting set of figures. The top 1% of Ireland own 12% of the national income, a percentage which has doubled since 1975. The bottom 90% fell from 72% of the national income to 64% in that time. In 2009, the average annual income of a person in the top 1% was €444,000, 13 times the average income. In 1975, the top 1% of income was only six times greater. Inequality is growing and this will not produce the kind of society to which we aspire. We know the key determining factors which arise from and contribute to poverty are cyclical. The Government should be attempting to break that cycle. It is not just about low pay. There is another strand to this and it is about income inequality.

When one examines the issue of crime in the US, 25% of the world’s prison population is located there while its total population is 5% of the world’s population. While there are many good things about the US, the greatest levels of income inequality are prevalent there too. We should take a lesson from this. Research suggests people, such as those with disabilities, are far likelier to challenge and overcome any inherent discrimination which exists if there is a stable opportunity system. One has to reduce the obstacles to ensure greater levels of income equality.

The Central Statistics Office, CSO, may not be the best place to locate this proposed commission. However, the Bill’s general principles are absolutely important. It is a pity it is being dealt with on a Friday morning and not enough attention is being paid to it in this Chamber. It has the potential at least to give us the information to feed into the kind of policymaking that would change society. When chief executives of multinational companies look at locating in Ireland, they ask if the education system and health care are good, if it is safe to live here and so forth. That all feeds into this Bill’s principles. It would not put people off to move gradually towards a point where one gets a more equal society. There is no real people or worker flight from the Nordic countries which have the most equal income levels. Driving society by greed does not actually benefit it.

I commend my colleague, Deputy Broughan, on the work he has done on this Bill. He has devoted his political career to fighting for fairness and greater equality. This Bill is a natural follow-on from that. The contribution of the Minister of State, Deputy Nash, was disappointing to say the least. The Bill’s purpose is to shine a light on what is actually happening in the area of income as we have little information on it. It was interesting that the Minister of State concentrated on his initiative on fair pay. This Bill, however, deals with the much wider issue and the other side of that coin. I very much welcome what the Minister of State is doing with the low-pay commission. I hope it will result in an increase in the minimum wage and move towards a policy for a living wage.

The other side of that is who pays for it. We cannot have that open debate unless we know who is earning what and who owns what. That is one of the main purposes of this Bill. There is a significant dearth of basic information as to who owns what and who earns what. This Bill has the potential to shine a light on that. As citizens, we should all be entitled to have that basic information. Unfortunately, we are being denied that. It is hard to see any justification for that. Why is it we should not have that entitlement to know who owns the wealth in the country and what are the relative levels of pay?

We know the gap between rich and poor is widening, a point the Minister of State disputed. Within companies, the gap between those on lowest pay and highest pay is widening generally as well. This widening gap is leading to growing levels of dissatisfaction among the public.

It is important that people would have a greater understanding of what is happening in the country in terms of income and wealth, if we are all in this together, which was the mantra that was used during the recession. We saw during that very difficult period that the mantra did not hold true. Going forward, we should be in a position where the highest level of information on wealth is available to everybody. That is one of the primary aims of the Bill and it is one worth supporting.

Having the level of information sought by the Bill available would allow for a proper and open debate on budgetary matters. The Government promised an open budgetary process but, unfortunately, that has not happened. We are continuing with the charade of the budget being kept top secret until the day it is announced, which is nonsense. The lead-in to the budgetary process should be much longer. The fullest amount of information should be available to people in order to consider the options in terms of crafting the budget. We cannot do that in any kind of meaningful way unless the basic information is available. It is frustrating for Members of this House to ask questions of the Department of Finance and to get back replies to the effect that the information is not available, that an unwarranted amount of time would be required to produce the information or the information is not collected in that format. One cannot but think that unless there is very clear direction on providing all of the budgetary information and all of the data on budgetary measures that we cannot have a full and proper debate on the matter.

Sometimes I come to the conclusion that particular information is not available because nobody wants us to know who is benefiting from previous budgetary measures. That is very much the case in relation to pensions, for example. I refer to the tax relief that has traditionally been available to high rollers for pension pots. It seems incredible that we had a situation up to very recently where very wealthy individuals could accumulate huge pension pots funded largely by taxpayers and we did not have information on how much that was costing the State. We were operating on the basis of estimates.

The smoke and mirrors in terms of the impacts of budgets and what is intended in finance Bills is undoubtedly designed to keep people in the dark about levels of income in this country and who is benefitting from budgetary measures. It is not acceptable that there is a fog over the entire area. We should be entitled to know who is benefiting. Following on from that I wish to address the high level of lobbying that goes on in respect of the budget and the finance Bill. Again, it is very much a grey area. We are not clear on it. Those who can best afford to do so, can bring in very powerful lobbyists to act on their behalf to ensure they get a bigger slice of the cake than anybody else. I would have thought the Government might have done something about that.

A number of speakers referred to a potential situation arising from what Deputy Broughan has proposed whereby, for example, people coming to this country with foreign direct investment companies may have their incomes impacted on and that it would have a negative effect on the country. I do not buy that for a moment. For a start, the special assignee relief programme, SARP, is in place to facilitate such people. Another point is that people who come to live in this country make the decision based on a series of factors apart from income. They base their decision on the quality of life in this country. There is not much quality of life if there are huge gaps between rich and poor because there is all the dissatisfaction and unrest that goes with that. Equally, one does not have a very good quality of life if there is not adequate investment in education, transport and health services among others. Social cohesion, good quality of life, fairness and equality are factors that very much play on people’s minds when they are thinking about coming to live in this country, especially if they are coming with their families. It is very simplistic to make that argument.

I was interested to note that the Ceann Comhairle criticised Deputy Broughan for naming people who are the high earners in this country. He did not accuse anyone, he merely made a statement of fact. It is interesting that the Ceann Comhairle jumped in so quickly to stop him doing that. I was also interested in the response of the Minister of State, Deputy Gerald Nash, and the title of his speech. He stated fair pay is a political not a statistical issue, but one cannot have a fair regime without good statistics. That is the whole point of the Bill. Unless one has the facts, one is in the dark. That would seem to be the case given the figures the Minister of State quoted in his speech, which are simply not accurate. I ask him to correct the record in that regard. He made the point that the number of people earning more than €100,000 has reduced. That happened during the recession, under the previous Government. The move towards a more progressive tax system also happened during the term of the previous Government.

If one looks at the up-to-date figures on the different levels of income earned, 150,000 people earn in excess of €100,000. The number is increasing. The trend is going in the wrong direction, contrary to the Minister of State’s claim. Recent figures also show that approximately 368,000 people on incomes under €9,000 a year gained nothing from the previous budget. If the Minister of State does not believe me, I invite him to look at the social impact assessment produced by the Department of Social Protection on the main welfare and tax measures for 2015. A bar chart in the document shows clearly that in last year’s budget the bottom and top quintiles were affected to the greatest extent. I urge the Minister of State to look at the statistics, in spite of all the claims he made on this year's budget. We need statistics if we are to have an honest debate. The claim was not made by Deputy Broughan or me, it was made by the ESRI. The data clearly show that the top quintile benefited to the greatest extent and the bottom quintile benefited to the least extent from the measures introduced by the Government in the recent budget. The data are going in the reverse direction to that claimed by the Minister of State. I urge him to face up to the reality of the effects of the budget in terms of achieving any level of fairness or equality in this country. It is important that we have the facts. In order that we are not talking in the dark, but about the facts, it is important that Deputy Broughan’s Bill is introduced. The greater the light shone on what is happening in this country and the level of income and wealth inequality the better as far as I am concerned, and the better help that is to achieving some level of fairness.

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak on this very important piece of legislation. I warmly welcome the High Pay and Wealth Commission Bill. I commend Deputy Broughan on introducing the Bill to the House. I will always work with someone who believes in fair play, proper wages and conditions and also to do something about inequality in society, in particular in the constituency Deputy Broughan and I share – Dublin Bay North. The people of Coolock, Artane, Darndale, Clonshaugh, Marino, Clontarf, Raheny and Howth all believe in the principles of social justice. It is very important that we agree with that approach.

The reason I support the legislation is because it is progressive.

It is sensible, has a great sense of social justice and deals with the issue of inequality.

There seems to be something wrong in modern Irish politics when politicians in mainstream parties are almost afraid to talk about wealth and inequality. It is as if one was doing something wrong if one raised the fact that somebody has too much money. It is important that this voice is heard. There are elements in the establishment, the mainstream parties and wider society who want to frighten the bunnies and those of us who campaign for equality. We have a rich list in this country that is reported upon by the media and treated as a sensationalist story where people are named. There should be something more constant about the rich list. There should be ongoing professional and common sense information about this.

Even if one is not on the left or has no sense of social justice, one can see that the OECD, the World Bank, the IMF and TASC have said recently that gross income inequality is growing and that this has been identified as a serious impediment to future economic growth. That is the key issue. Removing inequality is good for the economy even if one has no sense of social justice and it is important that we say that. We have seen economic crashes before such as that of 1929 but the common thread is they were always preceded by a significant level of inequality. That is historic fact so there is a red light there. If we do not want to repeat the mistakes of the past, we should deal with this issue.

I hear some Ministers and Members on the Government side talk about the horrific situation on the ground in Greece, the amount of suffering being experienced, unemployment and runs on the banks yet, Greece is being rounded on by certain quarters in Europe. We should be siding with the people of Greece and should not take any lectures from big countries like Germany. Germany defaulted unilaterally in the 1930s and received massive debt relief in 1953. Poland had large debts written off in 1989. They are lecturing the Greeks today. Greece is a broken country but all of the EU should help. We need a collective response, not isolation. Ganging up on the Greek people, including workers and the unemployed, is totally unacceptable and unjust.

It is constantly said that there is not enough money in the country to look after these issues and deal with low pay. According to the Department of Finance, whose financial reports are not written in Havana, the top 1% of earners, who number 21,650, have an annual gross income of €8.7 billion. Tell that to the Dunnes Stores workers. Top earners earn on average €403,703 per annum, which is more than ten times the average industrial wage. Let us take a few bob off those people and give it to people who deserve it. According to the Revenue Commissioners, corporate profits have increased, with gross trade profits increasing from €70.8 billion in 2010 to €73.8 billion in 2011. We must be brave and not run away from the issue of wealth, profits and top earners because we seem to be afraid to challenge these people.

The primary aim of the Bill is to establish a high pay and wealth commission which will have a specific role in informing the public about levels of wealth and incomes in Irish society. This is the kernel of the argument. It should not be up to the sensationalist newspapers to do this. The commission will build on the work being done by the CSO in carrying out the European household finance and consumption survey for the European Central Bank. The Bill is being proposed in response to the growing dissatisfaction with income inequality in Ireland and other Western developed economies. It is proposed to facilitate a greater understanding among the general public and policy makers. These are very practical and sensible measures if we are serious about doing something about inequality.

The proposal to establish a high pay and wealth commission will ensure that the information will be gathered by an entity with the tools that are necessary to develop appropriate fiscal and budgetary policy recommendations to Government, Opposition Deputies and the public. Again, this is a sensible proposal. When one digs down into the legislation, one sees its common-sense approach. Dig down further and one will see that section 6 sets out nine specific functions of the high pay and wealth commission in respect of executive pay, including the commission's engagement in a research project to be known as the "executive pay project" . This is an examination of levels of income and other benefits awarded to executive members of staff in large public and private companies. One can compare that to what we heard last week in the Dáil when we met the Dunnes Stores workers who came in and talked about their zero hours contracts, pay and working conditions. The Minister of State has a special interest in this area and I acknowledge that he is making some effort in respect of it. There is huge gap in the market and section 6 contains ways of highlighting it.

Given that we are coming out of a crisis, we need to see secure hours, incomes and jobs; fair pay; and the right to representation by a trade union. I appeal to the management of Dunnes Stores, which made a profit last year in the region of €400 million, to show some common sense, listen to its staff and come into the real world. It is the staff that has helped it make that profit of €400 million.

I welcome this legislation. We need to face up to the fact that there is wealth in our society and that 31% of the population and 37% of children suffer deprivation. We need to do something about that. I also welcome the fact that we have had this debate today because many people outside Leinster House say that we do not have these kind of debates. It is a pity that more Deputies were not in the House to contribute to it because we must do something about gross inequality in Irish society. Now is the time to do it if we are reforming the system after the horrific economic crash. There is huge potential to do it. I commend Deputy Broughan for bringing this legislation before the House.

I welcome Deputy Broughan's Bill and commend him for bringing it forward. It is a very modest proposal to establish within the CSO a body to gather information on high pay and wealth. I am sure it will be met with ridicule by some and angry outbursts by others. The reaction tells us more about those people than it does about this sensible suggestion. Very soon, people across this State will receive bills for their water, regardless of whether they are liable or not. We tax the family home, pints of beer, septic tanks, cars we need to get to work and almost all services we use every day.

Yet, the mere suggestion of collecting information to give us a better idea of how much wealth is in the country ruffles feathers, and I wonder why.

During the years of the financial crisis caused by very wealthy people being very greedy, there has been a shift from regressive taxes to regressive flat taxes. The USC, in its initial form, was as regressive as taxes get and the water tax is a perfect example of a tax that saves the rich money by shifting the bill onto the lower paid. Although there have always been alternatives to regressive taxes, the Government is not interested in them. A wealth tax is a good idea that will work. Although some like to think Sinn Féin has abandoned the idea, we have not. It has been part of our alternative budget each year and will be a policy of ours when in government. A third rate of tax for those earning more than €100,000 per year is a sensible policy that would create a fairer, more sustainable tax system. For the avoidance of doubt, a couple of people who each earn less than €100,000, but earn €100,000 between them, would not be liable for this tax.

Many people here and abroad thrive on the fear of a progressive tax system, and the reason is obvious. They profit on a tax system in which profit and wealth are allowed to mount while the little man and woman on the street are taxed at every point of his or her day. I can see no reason the Government would object to the Bill. Statistics, information and economic data have been gathered. The question is whether we get the full picture or are happy to limp along ignoring very important data about how much wealth is in the country. There are difficulties in calculating how much the top 1% or 10% own, given that surveys that deal with such a small group can be skewed and people can ignore such surveys.

The Bill would also monitor executive pay. If anybody wonders why this is necessary, they need look no further than our banking sector. The Government paid Mercer for a shiny report on bankers' pay and the bankers agreed to cut the wage bill. However, they did not cut their salaries but the number of workers and their conditions. Recently, there has been speculation, following a suggestion by my colleague, Deputy Pearse Doherty, that an independent body be established to cost alternative budget proposals. We fully support the idea, which would remove much of the ill-informed comments that accompany progressive suggestions each year. The Government's support of the Bill would be welcome as a sign, as we move towards a more mature debate, on the sort of tax policy we want.

I acknowledge the Members' contributions and thank Deputy Broughan for raising this important issue. We have had a very well-informed debate on this and related issues, which Deputy Broughan has consistently raised throughout his political career, as Deputy Shortall said. The Bill is well intentioned. It is critical for social cohesion that income and wealth distribution is not skewed to the extent we see in far too many societies. The concept of the Bill and what it seeks to achieve are valid. This approach has been central to the Government's approach during this term. Its success is witnessed by the fact that, thanks to social transfers, as identified by many think tanks including TASC, progressive taxation measures and maintaining income floors, the gap has narrowed during recent years. Like many in the House this morning, I want the gap to narrow further.

As I detailed in my opening remarks, there is a danger that the Bill, if enacted, would have unintended consequences such as fatally undermining the independence of the CSO, and this cannot happen. Much of what is in the Bill is already provided for in data monitoring and through the Government's policy, framing and implementation approach, for example the ex post and proposed ex ante social impact assessment of the budget each year, the commitment to require all public bodies to take due note of equality and human rights in carrying out their functions, and the requirement that all Government decisions examine their likely impact on equality issues generally and on persons at risk of poverty or social exclusion.

Deputy Broughan referred to TASC and the ESRI, directly quoting TASC's statement that Ireland is one of the most unequal countries in the EU in terms of income but it is important that we include the following line, "before taxes and social welfare payments are included". We can see the very clear distributional benefits of a progressive tax system that addresses the sense of inequality, and the resourcing of a strong, robust and very effective social welfare system recognised as such by national and international commentators in terms of assisting people in difficult circumstances and ensuring those who have the most contribute the most to the State supports and services that are disproportionately depended on by people in lower income brackets and who are dependent on social welfare.

That is not what the budget is doing.

Deputy Brendan Smith recognised that the Government's focus is very much on creating jobs and wealth and ensuring the wealth created is distributed fairly by the tax and social welfare systems and various other Government interventions. It is about trying to support as many people on low and middle incomes as we can to ensure we have the type of cohesive society to which I aspire, and to which Deputies Broughan and Shortall aspire. I welcome the commitment of Deputies Smith and Shortall to the Low Pay Commission, which is a very important public policy intervention in low pay and income distribution.

The key cause of inequality is the lack of access to meaningful, decent and sustainable jobs. While more needs to be done, there are positive developments in this direction. Unemployment has fallen by one third since 2012 and is at its lowest level in six years. The ESRI is of the view that it will drop below 9% over the next 12 months. The Government is reducing the tax burden on low and middle incomes. Some 410,000 low paid workers have already been removed from the USC over successive budgets and the policy of targeted reductions for workers will continue in the next budget. We have clearly committed to addressing low pay issues. On taking office, we have restored the national minimum wage from €7.65 to €8.65 and I have established the Low Pay Commission to further assess it. My ambition is that the national minimum wage would be progressively increased over time and to make recommendations on what the rate should be. We will receive those recommendations in the middle of the year.

In working its way through the crisis and moving to a position in which people are looking to the future with hope, the Government has been consistently committed to maintaining people in employment, growing jobs, maintaining employment rights and protecting the most vulnerable workers in our society, ensuring we can deliver a cohesive societal response to the unprecedented crisis we experienced in recent years and ensuring those at the top of our income scales carry the burden in as effective a way as possible. I assure the House that the Government will continue to be committed to doing this.

The Government is doing the opposite.

I thank the Minister, Deputy Shortall and the other Deputies for their contributions here. I hope we will move forward with the approach advocated in the Bill. Given that we desperately need an approach along these lines, it is disappointing that the Government is not accepting the legislation. The High Pay and Wealth Commission Bill is about transparency and full information on high pay and levels of net wealth. During the 27th Dáil, the first Dáil of which I was a Member, the then Labour Party leader, Dick Spring, often spoke to the parliamentary party about the tough budgetary choices Ireland still faced because of the limited scope for taxation at the relatively low levels of higher income and wealth as indicated to him and the Government by reports from the Revenue Commissioners.

I felt instinctively at that time, however, that the party leader, Dick Spring, was misinformed. It was after all in the period between two extraordinary tax amnesties and before the astonishing revelations of the DIRT, Ansbacher, Flood, Mahon and Moriarty inquiries and scandals. Those amnesties and revelations showed clearly that the savage cuts of the Haughey-MacSharry-O'Malley Governments, which Dick Spring ferociously opposed, were unnecessary as were the later penny-pinching budgets of Bertie Ahern and Ruairí Quinn in the mid-1990s. In the present era of continuing brutal austerity, the Noonan-Howlin fiscal juggernaut has refused to examine the scope for larger contributions to the national budget from the higher paid and those with significant wealth.

The first step, of course, is at least to find out the levels of higher income and wealth. That is why I referred to the Bill on First Stage as the "Paddy and Patricia like to know the story" Bill. Many surveys in Ireland and the UK have shown that people generally have not got a clue about high incomes and levels of wealth. The majority of people on much lower incomes just do not realise the levels of wealth and income in this country and in others. Deputies are included, of course, under the high pay definition of this Bill and the public is already familiar with Deputies' levels of assets and economic interests from the annual publication of our statements of registrable interests. In the past, I have called for similar statements to include all journalists and commentators on national affairs. But in fact, even anonymised as is provided for in this Bill, the fullest information on all higher incomes and wealth levels should be available to citizens and policy makers.

The Minister of State indicated that a key problem he saw with the Bill was locating it within the CSO. However, we are always constrained on these Friday morning debates because we cannot bring in legislation that will incur a charge on the Exchequer. I looked at different methods of obtaining this vital statistical information. There is also the whole mantra around Revenue. Every time I asked the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, for reports on the HSBC scandal, for example, and asked him detailed questions on Revenue, all we got were very general, vague answers.

During the preparation of the Bill, I examined two main approaches to obtaining information. These were changes to Irish and EU company law and corporate governance on the one hand and on the other, the creation of a high pay and wealth commission. Regulatory changes introduced in 2013 under the UK Companies Act 2006 apply to all large and medium sized companies and groups and require that directors' remuneration reports must compare on a percentage basis the salary and bonuses of executives with those of their average employee. This legislation does not include executives' long term incentive plans, LTIPs, however. As the Minister of State is aware, that is usually the largest single component of executive pay in large companies. In late 2013, the US Securities and Exchange Commission also required US companies under the Dodd-Frank law of 2010 to disclose how full CEO salaries compare to those of their median worker. In the EU, Commissioner Barnier spoke about a directive in 2015 making disclosure of the remuneration policy of companies mandatory.

The broad second approach, and that which I have followed in this Bill, is to establish a high pay and wealth advisory body on a permanent basis. In the UK, such a body, the High Pay Commission, was established by Compass with the support of the Joseph Rowntree Charitable Trust and it showed clear evidence of runaway executive salaries over the past 30 years. Under section 25 of the Statistics Act 1993, the Taoiseach may issue an order compelling the CSO to conduct a survey and compelling enterprises in particular categories which are listed in that order to respond to the survey. We clearly do have the power to obtain this information on a statistical basis. Under the amended section 10 of the Statistics Act 1993, in this Bill, the high pay and wealth commission is placed within the Central Statistics Office. The commission and CSO will also have access to data on executive level pay in reports of listed companies, in surveys from private consultancies like Mercer and IBEC and from the Revenue Commissioners, which could be used anonymously for the purpose of the commission.

In my first speech, I referred to the TASC report, Cherishing all equally: Economic inequality in Ireland, and to its crucial insights into the level of income and wealth inequality in this country. The publication of the CSO's first household finance and consumption survey on 29 January also adds significantly to our knowledge of Irish income and wealth. That survey was based on 5,419 relevant respondent households, out of 10,522 surveyed, and showed that 71% of all households which replied own their main residence, 10.8% own land and 13.8% own other property. Households in the bottom two deciles of income distribution have 11.4% of net wealth compared to nearly 40% for the top two deciles. A total of 56.8% of the households that replied have some form of debt - the fifth highest in the euro zone - with a median value of debt of €63,000 for indebted households. While this survey is a snapshot of households at one period, it again highlights the inequalities in Irish wealth distribution. The role for the commission as proposed in this Bill would have a much broader reach effectively detailing the income and wealth of every adult Irish person.

The reaction of many media commentators, of course, is to question or try to rubbish the implications of the information provided by research bodies like TASC, NERI and the CSO. Chris Johns asserts that the inequality debate is "one of the worst instances of statistical abuse since Pythagoras" and identifies a "thinly hidden agenda" to target the richest 1%. Dan O'Brien, in his typical manner, declares that "claims of Ireland being very unequal are utter bunkum". My former colleague, Deputy Joanna Tuffy, also took a rather complacent view of the levels of inequality in Ireland and the devastating impacts of her Government's austerity policies in a February article in The Irish Times.

We know of course from the brilliant study of the Irish newspapers and broadcast media by Julien Mercille, The Political Economy and Media Coverage of the European Economic Crisis: The Case of Ireland, with which the Acting Chairman may be familiar, how profoundly journalists of the right-wing dominated newspapers and media ignored and greatly benefited from the massive property bubble from 2000 to 2007. Indeed, Dr. Mercille was in this House just a few days ago. Those media outlets strongly backed the blanket guarantee and the horrendous austerity policies which still accompany it. The same newspapers and journalists rarely, if ever, mention the huge information deficit regarding high income and wealth.

Section 5(2)(d) of the Bill requires the commission to carry out an equality audit of each national budget and based on this independent assessment to make recommendations about the manner in which a fair distribution of wealth and income in Irish society can be ensured when making budgetary adjustments. This section is in response to the longstanding criticism of the brief equality and poverty impact sections in budget day papers which of course are not equality audits at all. Particularly critical is the equality budgeting campaign, a broad coalition of trade unions, NGOs and citizens which was founded in July 2012 due to the increases in inequality and poverty, and which I hope the Minister of State will support through the final budget of this Government.

All of the research so far points to dangerous levels of inequality in Irish society. The Government has insisted on continuous austerity measures to target the most vulnerable in Irish society, as Deputy Shortall has shown, pushing those who did not cause the crash and recession into poverty, negative equity and national debt. The recent European Commission annual report on Ireland showed that we have the highest proportion of jobless households in the EU and very clearly points the finger at the high cost of child care. Our two-tier healthcare sector is also highlighted in the report.

One other area I wish to bring to the Minister of State's attention, which I believe will also increase inequality over the next couple of years, is the commencement of the huge operation of quantitative easing, QE, by Mario Draghi and the ECB. From this month, the ECB is making monthly purchases worth €60 billion of public and private assets including government bonds, asset backed securities and covered bonds. The aim is to bring inflation back to the ECB's official target of below, but close to, 2% and the QE purchases should total €1.08 trillion by September 2016. Approximately 80% of the new purchases, of course, are the responsibility of national central banks. It is feared, however, that most of the new money will be tied up in the eurozone's banking, financial and corporate sectors rather than trickling down. This is happening on the Minister of State's watch - quantitative easing may well make the inequality worse because the money is going to stay with those bankers with their bonuses. Yesterday we read about a basic salary of €1 million in Bank of Ireland, which we still partly own and have propped up for some time. There has been no debate and the Minister for Finance is not interested in talking to me about quantitative easing and the impact it may have on inequality.

Public policy from this Oireachtas should, at all costs, seek to avoid this dangerous growth of inequality and the economic conditions promoting inequality. As a further major tool towards this outcome I again commend the High Pay and Wealth Commission Bill to the House.

I thank the Library and Research Service of the Houses of the Oireachtas and in particular Dr. Catherine Lynch for their outstanding assistance in the preparation of this Bill in late 2013 and early 2014. Solicitor, Dr. Brian Hunt, also did excellent work in drafting the Bill for the Library and Research Service. My former parliamentary assistant, Ms Aisling Dillon, and my current parliamentary assistant, Ms Bernadette Grogan, who also did a terrific job in preparing and presenting this High Pay and Wealth Commission Bill.

Question put.

In accordance with Standing Order 117(1A), the division is postponed until immediately following the Order of Business on Tuesday next, 31 March 2015. I thank all Deputies for their contributions.

We should have the division now.

I have to get back down to Cork.

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