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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 21 Apr 2015

Vol. 875 No. 1

Topical Issue Debate

Airport Promotion

I thank the Minister for his attendance. Throughout Cork city, the county and the region there is great concern about the situation pertaining to Cork Airport. The recent announcement by Aer Lingus Regional is a further blow to the situation at the airport. There has been a serious decline in the number of flights to and from Cork. Obviously, this will have a negative impact on the tourism industry and the economic and industrial future for the region.

In recent years, Cork Airport's traffic or passenger numbers have fallen by approximately 40%, which is rather dramatic. Last year alone saw a reduction of 6.6% in passengers to the airport. Next year, the airport authority is projecting a 5% decline. Action is required because 2015 will be worse. Aer Lingus and Ryanair have announced the cancellation of routes on top of a reduction of further flights to continental Europe, including the ending of the Cork to Lisbon, Cork to Nice and Cork to Brussels routes.

Passenger numbers are now at 2 million. We cannot blame it exclusively on the downturn and we cannot blame it on the motorway or the associated improvements, as some do - I understand the Minister has suggested this recently. Shannon Airport passenger numbers have gone up 18.7% and those in Dublin have gone up by 6.5%. I believe we can trace this back to the decision in 2012. I am certain Cork Airport is not operating on a level playing pitch.

The reconstitution of Shannon Airport under a separate State company with Shannon Development and the rental revenues that flow from Shannon Development have put Shannon in a strong competitive position. Good luck to Shannon in that regard. Its debt burden has also been written off to the tune of €100 million. Essentially, it is in a position to offer far better prices to airlines than Cork Airport. This is not something I am saying; officials of the Dublin Airport Authority are saying it. In fact, one thing that concerned me when I met DAA officials was that they were reluctant to go public because they were fearful of the political repercussions. The DAA seems to have been rather muted until relatively recently on this issue.

Certain legislation was brought in at the time. The Government abolished the Cork Airport Authority, although the legislation allows for it to be re-established. Essentially, it is part of the DAA structure now. It is clear that Cork Airport lacks a strong independent advocate and is very much subservient to the DAA's diktat.

In the context of the Booz report and the legislation, Cork Airport was never really given any new lease of life by the Government and it is at a severe disadvantage now. The Government directly intervened elsewhere. I have no doubt the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, was influential in terms of the Shannon situation. Shannon Airport can offer deals to Ryanair that Cork Airport cannot. That is fine except it does not add any value to the country. That is the bottom line. Approximately 100,000 passengers were going through Cork and they are now going to Shannon because of the deals that can be offered. That is what DAA officials are saying behind the scenes. They are clear and straightforward about it.

Therefore, the pitch must be levelled somehow in terms of facilitating growth in Cork. There is no way that the airport can prevent the diversion of services as a result of the incentive pricing that is going on. In particular, Ryanair, as a low-cost airline, has diverted a good deal of its traffic to the airport down the road. There is no doubt that substantial discounts, success fees and marketing payments are all factors in that change. I believe it is a race-to-the-bottom model and one the Government should reflect on and change tack in terms of ensuring a feasible long-term future for Cork Airport.

One step I recommend to the Minister is for the Cork Airport board to be re-established. At least that would allow for a strong board that could advocate for Cork Airport, in particular. That would mitigate the sense, which is now very strong in the region, that certain issues are being muted because of the DAA's relationship with the Department and its political masters, that DAA officials are not allowed to raise awkward questions and that they do not want to publicly articulate awkward questions.

A route development fund is essential for Cork Airport, or else a regional support fund for tourism activities in the region. Something has to happen to redress the current imbalance between the three airports. Route development funds have been successful in the past in developing regional airports and increasing connectivity elsewhere, including Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales and northern England. The Government should seriously consider ways and means of redressing this otherwise the situation will continue to decline. It is not sustainable in the current framework that operates throughout the three State airports. A route development fund and an independent authority should be considered.

I thank Deputy Martin for raising this matter. I am very much aware of the importance of this matter. The interest he has is shared with his constituency colleagues, the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Coveney, Deputy Jerry Buttimer and Deputy Ciarán Lynch.

Before I comment on the importance of Cork Airport and our plans for it, I emphasise that the market for air services in the European Union is fully liberalised. Any European registered airline is free to operate any service between any two points in the European Union. It is, therefore, a matter for airlines, including Aer Lingus Regional or Stobart Air, to decide what routes they service based on their commercial judgments.

I have no involvement in those decisions. My understanding is that while Stobart will be reducing frequency on some routes, it is also increasing capacity on others or resuming summer services, as all airlines do over the year, depending on seasonality and passenger demand. In particular, the airline will recommence its twice-weekly summer services to Jersey and Rennes from Cork in early June.

The Government is very conscious of the importance of Cork Airport. It is the second largest airport in Ireland and vital for business and tourism in the Cork region. With all this focus on and discussion about declining passenger numbers, let us not forget that it still had more than 2.1 million passengers last year, has 42 scheduled routes and offers passengers excellent connectivity into three major European hub airports. The airport has excellent passenger facilities and provides award-winning customer services.

Notwithstanding all of that, I am also very aware of, and concerned about, the continuing decline in passenger numbers at the airport. Since becoming Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, I have met all the stakeholders in Cork Airport on a number of occasions and have engaged extensively with Government bodies in the matter. The DAA and Cork Airport management are working hard to stabilise passenger numbers and restore Cork Airport to growth in the short to medium term. The DAA is actively engaged with existing airline customers, including Stobart, and potential new entrants to help expand traffic at the airport and generate new services. It is crucial that existing and new services are, therefore, supported by the people in Cork and the wider catchment area to ensure their sustainability.

I believe there are also opportunities to increase the number of incoming tourists in the Cork region, particularly in view of the fact that only 37% of Cork Airport's passengers are inbound, which is quite low by international standards. I have engaged with Tourism Ireland, which has undertaken significant co-operative marketing activity with carriers serving Cork Airport to promote flights to Cork and boost travel to the wider regions. East Cork will also be promoted as part of the new tourism proposition for the south and east of Ireland, Ireland's Ancient East. Cork city and airport now have the opportunity to act as a gateway to both Ireland's Ancient East and the Wild Atlantic Way.

Ultimately, creating new services and growing inbound tourism depends not just on the availability of competitive access but also on ensuring that potential visitors have a reason to visit. I urge everybody to work together to develop these products in the Munster region, not just around the airport. The stakeholders, along with the airport and the tourism agencies, will then be better able to pursue every opportunity to develop and highlight those products. It is only by working together that the objective of ensuring a sustainable airport that is able to grow in the future can be achieved for the benefit of the region, the city and the county.

I am very disappointed with the Minister's response because it is a holding response and does not deal with the core issue. There are three State airports, and one need only look at the structure to see the issue. Cork Airport is at a competitive disadvantage because of the way the Government has structured the three airports in terms of governance and supports to the respective airports. Essentially, there was a reorganisation of Shannon Airport, with Shannon Development, the rental revenues and all of that, but there is no corresponding structure for Cork Airport or any other supporting mechanism in terms of where it stands within the DAA group. That is a fundamental issue with regard to its capacity to offer competitive rates to airlines.

The other key issue is industry. The region is home to some of the biggest names in global technology, from EMC to Apple, and the pharmaceutical and life sciences industry. The Minister knows that airline connectivity is a very important factor in terms of the capacity to bring in foreign direct investment. There is huge concern about the continuing decline of the airport's passenger numbers. It is a fine airport which is number one in the world in terms of its customer relations - it has received awards in that regard. However, all of this will have an impact on FDI eventually if we do not have that international and global connectivity. That is a big issue of concern for people in the region, particularly those in industry and business.

It is also important in the context of the country's spatial planning. Everyone is talking about the two-tier economic recovery in the sense that everything is happening in the Dublin region and very little outside it. Our second largest airport is now being essentially undermined and downgraded because of the structures that have been put in place, inadvertently or otherwise - I do not know which. The Minister from Cork, Deputy Coveney, must have been asleep at the table or been considerably out-muscled by other Ministers in this regard, but the outcomes are clear in terms of what is happening on the ground. The airline charges offered by Cork Airport are quite competitive across the European landscape, and I have no difficulty with the position of Shannon and Dublin airports, but when we see the other airport going in the opposite direction, surely that raises alarm bells in the Department and with the Minister which call for action. Does the Minister intend to bring in a route development fund?

I am struck by Deputy Martin's description of his own local airport as being downgraded. That is an extraordinary statement to make about our second airport, which last year alone carried more than 2 million passengers into and out of our country.

That is what the Minister is doing.

That is the language Deputy Martin used to describe the airport. In his reaction, what he fails to acknowledge in any way is the engagement I have had to support this airport. I have met both the DAA and local management within Cork Airport on many different occasions. If I looked at the different matters the Deputy has raised, I would point to the fact that Tourism Ireland, as I said in my reply, is working with Cork Airport to land routes and that new routes have recently been landed at the airport. I met with the management of Cork Airport only weeks ago to review with them the efforts they have made to bring in new routes and bring new access to the airport.

I have already acknowledged to the Deputy, as I have to many of his colleagues within the region, that I am concerned about the trend that is evident there. I want to see Cork Airport increase its passenger numbers in the future for reasons of supporting investment in the region and supporting tourism in the area and beyond. I point to the support we have given it in the recent past. We have now launched a new proposition, Ireland's Ancient East, to respond to some of the points that have been made within the Deputy's county regarding the need to better support different tourism assets within the area. A crucial reason for this is the need to find ways to generate more demand within that region, which in turn will support this airport. In terms of specific supports that I and State agencies are providing to the airport, I have engaged directly with the management of Cork Airport and Tourism Ireland is working directly with them to support their efforts to bring in new routes in what I know is a competitive environment. The Deputy himself acknowledged that the rates Cork Airport is offering are competitive versus many of its European peers. In that environment, with the support that Tourism Ireland is giving to the airport-----

It is not competitive in the Irish market.

-----I find no evidence whatsoever to back up the Deputy's claim that this airport is being in any way downgraded. What I would encourage him to do-----

It is the DAA that is saying this. DAA officials are telling me this off the record.

I have engaged constantly with the airport. Whatever kind of feedback Deputy Martin is getting and whatever kind of commentary-----

I have had meetings on this.

It is no doubt disappointing for the Deputy to hear of the engagement I have had in the matter and the progress we are making. It is striking to hear the Deputy talk about his own airport being downgraded. This is a Government that has supported tourism in a way no Fianna Fáil Government ever did, and has got rid of measures such as the airport travel tax, which Deputy Martin's Government brought in. That has now resulted in a huge transformation in the number of visitors into and out of the country, and a huge step change in tourism within our country.

That is our track record. I have been to Cork and met people. Given the support we have had in bringing in new routes, I am hopeful and confident that this will continue in the future.

School Completion Programme

I thank the Minister, Deputy Reilly, for taking this Topical Issue. I am aware that he spoke on this topic in the past week or so and I very much welcome his commitment to ensuring the school completion programme is maintained. Having said that, it is a reality that the co-ordinators of these programmes have received no certainty or clarity from Tusla or the Minister. They have not been informed as to whether there will be further reductions in funding next year or dramatic, deep-rooted change to the programme, or whether it will be overhauled entirely. That is causing a lot of stress.

I recently met nine principals from DEIS schools in my constituency and our local co-ordinator on the question of the future and security of the school completion programme. They have gone through a very turbulent time, which goes without saying, in terms of a reduction in funding. They have moved from a model of part-funding from the European Union to the Department of Education and Skills, and are now under the umbrella of Tusla. There has been a lot of chopping and changing, which has contributed to the sense of uncertainty.

The service nationally has experienced a substantial cut in funding from €32.9 million in 2008 to €24.7 million in 2014. It is fair to say that while everybody understands the enormous economic challenges the State has faced since 2008, it is essential that the most vulnerable in our society are protected. It is also essential that programmes that are proven to produce results are protected, that their funding is ring-fenced and that they are supported and grow. That has to be a priority and I would very much welcome any statement from the Minister in that regard, in terms of a commitment to expanding and continuing the school completion programme because it is working. I know from first-hand experience in my constituency, which has some of the most deprived areas in the whole country, that children who are extremely vulnerable to mitching school and early school leaving benefit from this programme. It is working and all of the principals in all of the schools in my constituency would back that up 100%, as would teachers.

We are awaiting the result of an ESRI report on this matter. I understand it was due in March and has still not been forthcoming. It has not been published; I am not sure whether it has been provided to the Minister or Tusla but it has not been made public. It is anxiously awaited and, incidentally, ties in with the very good and comprehensive report the ESRI published in recent weeks on the overarching challenges facing DEIS schools. It was a wide-ranging report which investigated the effectiveness or otherwise of DEIS schools. An interesting recommendation, which I am sure the Minister has read in detail, is the concentration of resources on band 1 schools in urban areas, which are the most vulnerable and where, unfortunately, the least amount of progress is being made.

The ESRI recommendation focuses on DEIS schools but there is a reference to the school completion programme. It very clearly and concretely recommends the concentration of resources in the most vulnerable schools in urban areas. I would like to hear whether the Minister would support a similar focus in terms of the school completion programme, that is, the concentration of resources in the most vulnerable areas. It is logical and is what this programme is all about, namely, ensuring that every citizen, in particular every child in our State, is cherished and has equal opportunities. We know that is not the case.

The ESRI report on DEIS schools tells us what we already know, but it is worth reiterating. DEIS schools are more likely to have students who come from unskilled, manual or non-employed households, parents who have lower levels of education and families with lower household incomes. Children in such schools are more likely to come from lone parent families. There is a range of factors which are entirely predictable and mean these children are more vulnerable and require much greater intervention. I am very keen to hear the Minister's thoughts on that report and how it directly affects the programme.

I thank the Deputy for her question. The school completion programme aims to retain young people in the formal education system to completion of senior cycle and to improve the school attendance, participation and retention of its target cohort. It is a targeted intervention aimed at school communities identified through the Department of Education and Skills DEIS action plan. It involves 124 projects and related initiatives operating in 470 primary and 224 post-primary schools.

These projects provide a range of supports and interventions designed to support approximately 36,000 children identified by local management committees as being at risk of educational disadvantage. Typically, projects offer homework clubs, breakfast clubs, mentoring programmes, learning support, social and personal development programmes, out-of-school supports, including music, art and sports, and a range of activities during holiday periods.

Since 1 January 2014, the Child and Family Agency has had operational responsibility for the school completion programme, including the allocation of funds to local projects. In 2014, an allocation of €24.756 million was provided for the school completion programme. The agency has indicated a similar allocation for the programme in 2015. It has approved local projects school retention plans for the 2014-15 academic year. The first two instalments of 2014-15 funding have issued to local projects, with a third instalment planned for next month.

The Deputy may be aware that a review of the school completion programme by the ESRI is almost complete, a point to which she alluded. The review is an important initiative in regard to planning for the future development of the school completion programme. The review will assist in identifying the reforms necessary to consolidate the programme on a sustainable footing for the future. The review is being overseen by a steering committee involving officials of the Child and Family Agency, my Department and the Department of Education and Skills.

The review will, among other things, examine the school completion programme structures and their fitness for purpose to support an integrated approach to address early school leaving. It will analyse the interventions provided and make recommendations for evidence-informed supports designed to secure the best educational outcomes for children and young people. It is envisaged that its final report will be delivered very shortly.

The Minister for Education and Skills recently published an evaluation of the delivering equality of opportunity in schools, or DEIS, programme which was also prepared by the ESRI, and which refers to the school completion programme as an integral support within DEIS in improving attendance and engagement in education, something the Deputy mentioned in her remarks. I would like to reiterate that I have advised the agency of my commitment to ensuring that there is no diminution in the school completion programme services.

The school completion programme is an important service within the agency's educational welfare services. It is, as Deputy Creighton and many other Deputies have said over the past number of months, a highly regarded programme and a key response in securing improved educational outcomes for children and young people at risk of early school leaving. As we all know, the longer one stays in education, the better education one will have and the better one's prospects in life will be in terms of the ability to earn a living.

I thank the Minister for his response. I appreciate the specific funding that has been allocated for the 2014-15 academic year, which he outlined. The fear among co-ordinators of the school completion programme concerns the funding for the academic year 2015-16, which is fast approaching. When people are trying to plan for September and trying to put in place the various elements of the programme, they need to know they have some certainty.

The concern is over the delay in the publication of the ESRI report. Perhaps the Minister will be able to inform the House when exactly that report will be published. Perhaps he will indicate how long it will take for him to consider the report and, ultimately, take decisions on the future of the programme so there can be clarity and certainty for the schools, children, their families and the co-ordinators of the programme. It is really a question of the funding for next year and how long it will take until there is certainty in that regard.

My other question, which I appreciate the Minister did not yet have a chance to address, concerns a recommendation in the ESRI report on DEIS schools pertaining to the concentration of resources on the most disadvantaged areas. We do not know whether the Minister for Education and Skills will accept the recommendation but I certainly hope she will. Does the Minister envisage a similar concentration of resources, focused on the most disadvantaged children and areas, for the school completion programme? To me, it is logical and makes sense. It will ensure the most vulnerable children are protected and provide the sorts of supports they need to ensure they can continue in education and not miss school. It will ultimately ensure they have better opportunities in life.

I thank the Deputy for her question. It is clear to me, given the number of times this specific issue has arisen in the Topical Issue debate, that it is a matter of great concern to many Deputies and that its value is very clear to them. I believe in the programme. It has tremendous value and goes a long way towards levelling the playing pitch to ensure children at risk of finishing school earlier than they should will remain in the educational process. As one goes around the country and examines the various areas in which the programme is implemented, and the various ways in which it is implemented, one realises it is important that the co-ordinators follow the lead of the students themselves and find out from them what they are interested in. They should use this knowledge as a means of leading the students back into education and explain to them that if they had a better understanding of mathematics or another subject, they would be better able to pursue their interest in a certain area, be it carpentry, cookery or another practice. I have visited some of the programmes and noted they are very well run and are keeping children in school.

On the issue of concentrating resources in the areas of most disadvantage and need, that has clearly been the focus of this particular back to school completion programme.

Although the early childhood and child care education programme is universal and highly regarded by parents, with 95% of the cohort of eligible children participating, the children who gain most from it are actually the ones from the most disadvantaged areas. They catch up on reading skills, etc., when they get into class. Before this programme was in place, there was often a 30-point difference between those from more advantaged areas and those from less advantaged areas. I hope that helps answer the question.

IBRC Operations

I am disappointed the Minister for Finance is not present, as he was in the House earlier. The first two Topical Issue debates were taken by the relevant line Minister.

When I first started raising this issue with the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, he told me IBRC operated at arm’s length from the State. As I probed deeper, he conceded his Department was concerned about the Siteserv deal but that he was satisfied it was in the best interest of the State. When I pushed further, he eventually admitted that far from being satisfied, his Department actually conducted a full review of the deal and that following that review, the Department made a decision to second one of its officials to the board of IBRC to provide greater oversight. Six months later, IBRC was wound up in a very rushed fashion.

Today, I received freedom of information documents from the Department of Finance which show not only that the Minister was not satisfied the deal was the best one for the State but that he believed the deal resulted in a less than optimum return for the bank and, by extension, the State. That conflicts with the original reply, which is a serious issue in its own right.

I have been raising these concerns because when I started examining how the lucrative Irish Water metering contract had been awarded, the trail led me back to the IBRC sale to Siteserv, whose subsidiary, Sierra, went on to win the metering contract, and to the Denis O’Brien-owned Millington. That led me to a web of potential conflicts of interest which I am still trying to understand. I refer to people such as Mr. Richard Woodhouse, the head of specialised asset management in IBRC, who also managed the Siteserv account and the personal borrowings of the Siteserv CEO, Brian Harvey, as well as being a personal friend of Denis O'Brien. That brings me to Davy. There was one Davy adviser advising five Siteserv board members. The same legal firm, Arthur Cox, was advising or working on behalf of both seller and buyer in this deal.

I have tabled parliamentary questions but they have not been replied to, so I am asking questions here. I have been told by a whistleblower, although I am open to hearing the Minister of State’s version of this, that Millington was not even considered in the first round of bids and that Millington received a letter from the aforementioned Mr. Richard Woodhouse informing it that it needed to change its bid if it was to be considered in the second round. Millington added a €5 million cash sweetener for the shareholders to the bid and Millington was successful. The memo I got through freedom of information today again reiterates the point and the Minister’s concern that the decision to exclude trade buyers was serious. It is even more serious in the context of the metering contract which was later won.

Earlier today the Taoiseach told this House that the relationship framework governing the transaction was the 2009 framework, which did not require IBRC to involve the Department in the transaction. However, the freedom of information documents show that negotiations for the implementation of the new framework were ongoing for some time prior to that. I believe there were approximately 30 versions of it prior to the Siteserv deal. It came into effect two weeks after the conclusion of the deal. The documents further suggest that IBRC's CEO, Mike Aynsley, and the board resisted the implementation of the new framework at every hand’s turn until the Siteserv deal was concluded. I need to have an answer to that.

IBRC had been told by the Department to act as if the framework were in place earlier than when the Siteserv deal was concluded. Why did it not do so? Did Mr. Alan Dukes, as chairman of IBRC, ignore the instruction to act as if the framework were in place? The strange relationships and extremely fractious relationship between the Department and IBRC and the concerns surrounding the Siteserv transaction and other large transactions raise serious questions about the real reasons underpinning the eventual "prom night" in which IBRC was wound down in a very hurried fashion.

I thank Deputy Catherine Murphy for raising the issue. I am grateful to have an opportunity to place some information on this matter on the record of the House.

On 15 March 2012, the board of IBRC met and approved the sale of Siteserv. Under the relationship framework that was in place between the Minister for Finance and the bank at that time, which had been place since July 2009, the board of IBRC was required to engage with the Minister for Finance on certain key issues, which included "any material acquisitions, disposals, investments, realisations or other transactions, other than in the ordinary course of Anglo Irish Bank's banking business."

It should be noted that this relationship framework did not include any specific monetary thresholds which would trigger mandatory consultation with the Minister for Finance. It should also be noted that at the time the ordinary course of the bank's business was to conduct an orderly run-down of the bank. As such, IBRC's efforts, as a secured lender, to maximise the recovery on its loans to Siteserv was considered to be in the ordinary course of business. For that reason, and under the relationship framework in place at that time, IBRC was not required to consult the Minister for Finance on this matter in advance of making the decision to approve the sale of Siteserv.

Upon receipt of critical representations following the transaction, Department of Finance officials inquired about the transaction with IBRC management as part of their regular engagement. Following initial discussions, they agreed with IBRC's chairman and CEO, on 31 May 2012, that they would review the transaction involving Siteserv in greater detail to better understand the decisions taken and the impact these decisions had on the process and the final recovery for the bank. Through this review, which took place on 11 June 2012, Department of Finance officials were concerned that IBRC had decided to allow Siteserv to control the sales process rather than itself acting in a primary role in this transaction. This decision appears to have given rise to a number of other subsequent actions which could quite reasonably be considered to have caused a reduction in the bank's recovery on the Siteserv exposure. These included the exclusion of potential trade buyers from the sales process, the fact that legal advisors to Siteserv also acted for the purchaser, and the making of a payment to the shareholders of Siteserv. In light of these concerns, the shareholding management unit of the Department of Finance recommended that the chairman of IBRC commission an independent review of the transaction, and this was included in a briefing note to the Minister for Finance prior to his meeting the chairman and CEO of IBRC.

On 25 July 2012, the Minister for Finance met IBRC's chairman and CEO to discuss concerns regarding this transaction which were raised with him by Department of Finance officials following their engagement with IBRC management. The chairman and CEO gave strong assurances that the transaction had been thoroughly assessed by the IBRC board and that the management and board of IBRC were satisfied that the transaction was managed in the best manner possible to achieve the best result for the State, including the decision to allow Siteserv to control the sales process. At this meeting, the chairman and CEO further confirmed and provided assurances, with regard to the specific concerns previously mentioned, that trade buyers had been excluded due to the potential damage to Siteserv's competitive position that might otherwise have arisen; that the legal advice was provided by two different teams within the law firm concerned, and appropriate Chinese walls were in place between the two teams; and that the payment to shareholders was necessary to ensure a vote in favour of the deal.

To help prevent such concerns regarding the quality of decisions taken by IBRC management from arising in the future, the Minister for Finance requested that a further meeting take place between the former Secretary General of the Department of Finance, John Moran, and the then CEO of IBRC. A meeting took place in August 2012 at which this matter was further discussed. At that point, and at all other points mentioned above, the transaction had been concluded and no further action could have been taken.

Notwithstanding the fact that a revised relationship framework and operational protocol had been put in place on 29 March 2012, it was decided following John Moran's meeting with the then CEO of IBRC in August 2012 that a senior Department of Finance official would be seconded to IBRC to explore opportunities for deleveraging with a view to maximising the recovery for the taxpayer. This had the additional benefit of supporting the management team while also providing greater oversight, given that a number of matters within IBRC at that time raised concerns with Department of Finance officials. The secondment of Neil Ryan to IBRC commenced shortly thereafter, in October 2012, and he took up his role as the bank's new head of market solutions.

The Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, went out of his way on the night IBRC was wound down to compliment the board of IBRC. He stated, "I wish to emphasise that the reasons the steps are being taken are entirely distinct from the performance or the direction of the board of management of IBRC." He also stated: "I acknowledge, with much appreciation, the significant efforts the directors and staff have made". This is at odds with some of what I have received under the freedom of information provisions, including an internal memo from the Department which states that it was concerned at the number of very large transactions of over €100 million that were poorly executed under the direction of the then CEO, Mike Aynsley. The memo also states that the performance management in executing these transactions raised the question of the effectiveness of the CEO.

Much of what the Minister of State said I could probably have written myself because of the information I have received through parliamentary questions, which was like pulling hen's teeth, but a whole lot of other questions need to be answered. There were many other very large transactions and we need to know what they were. The people whom the Minister of State and I meet every day, who are struggling and who bailed out the bank, have an entitlement to know they got as much as was possible. It seems that a golden circle is operating and that there are serious conflicts of interest all over the place. I would go so far as to say I believe there needs to be an independent inquiry into this transaction. If it is the case that a company, by virtue of winning that deal, was positioned to go on and win lucrative deals such as a metering contract, as was in the news, to the exclusion of other people who were trade buyers, one must ask why this could have happened. There are very serious questions which undermine democracy, and transparency needs to be the winner in this. I compliment the officials in the Department because from a lot of this I can see that they were really doing their job.

Every action taken by the Government and the Minister for Finance has been taken with the aim outlined by Deputy Murphy: to minimise the cost of bailing out the bank to the Irish taxpayer and to restore our banking sector to a functioning reality so it can continue to serve the Irish economy. We may disagree on this, but it is the reason for the efforts undertaken by officials in the Department of Finance, whom the Deputy has rightly complimented, and by the Minister for Finance.

I have already outlined how the Minister, once these concerns were brought to his attention - after the transaction had been completed, under a relationship framework put in place by the previous Government which did not require him to be consulted - took a number of steps, including meeting the chairman and the CEO, asking the then Secretary General to meet them and seconding Mr. Neil Ryan to IBRC from the Department of Finance.

As part of Ireland's third review under the EU-IMF programme of financial support, a report on which was published in September 2011, Ireland committed to a number of conditions and actions. One of these was to develop a framework to govern the exercise of the State's ownership rights in the banks resulting from the capital injections, including to put in place relationship frameworks with the banks to protect the commercial basis for the banks' operations while under State ownership. The end of March 2012 was the deadline put in place for the introduction of these relationship frameworks with each of the banks in which the State acquired an interest in the context of the financial crisis, to govern the relationship between the State, as shareholder, and each bank. The relationship frameworks were designed to recognise the separation of each bank from the State, to ensure their businesses would be run on a commercial, cost-effective and independent basis to ensure the value of the banks as an asset to the State, and to limit the State's intervention to the extent necessary to protect the public interest. New frameworks were put in place, and the revised relationship framework introduced with IBRC was considerably more intrusive than those with the other banks, and rightly so, as this was necessary given the increased level of oversight required in view of the unique position of IBRC as a run-down vehicle financially supported by the State through the promissory notes, and the Department of Finance's experience to date with IBRC at that time.

The Deputy knows and has heard it from the Government that the ultimate decision to liquidate IBRC was taken in the context of the overall cost to the State of its orderly wind-down, which was being supported by the promissory notes at a heavy cost to the State. What concerns existed about certain management decisions are documented by the Department of Finance, and I have acknowledged them. Ultimately, the aim of minimising the cost of the orderly wind-down of IBRC was of primary concern to the Government. While it is not possible for any of us to express definitive views in the House on commercial decisions taken by boards of banks, it is possible to clearly set out the facts. I have set out the facts very clearly-----

An interpretation of them.

-----on behalf of the Minister of Finance on the frameworks he put in place, and this tallies very much with the information Deputy Murphy has received. The Minister is working very hard to reduce the cost to the Irish taxpayer of the bank bailout imposed by the previous Government.

Home Repossessions

I thank the Ceann Comhairle sincerely for allowing me to raise this Topical Issue. Along with my colleagues, I attended a public meeting on Friday night in my home town of Castledermot. It was called to discuss an issue that has caused many a sleepless night for the residents of three townlands close to the town, Madges Lane, Davidstown and Ballybannon: a repossession order granted from the High Court in regard to farmlands adjacent to the stated areas. The High Court decision is not part of the Topical Issue. However, I have grave concerns in regard to the actions that resulted from the decision and, in particular, the efforts of the receiver to repossess the property.

Last week, upwards of 30 men, dressed in black, sought to access the property in the hours of darkness. Rural Ireland has suffered a lot from burglaries, theft, anti-social behaviour, etc., over the past number of years, to the point that communities have united to protect their properties and communities. One need only travel to practically any part of the country to see the great work and actions that those communities are involved in to give a sense of protection to themselves and their loved ones. I know from personal experience the great work that community texting does in my own community. In this context, one cannot but have concerns in regard to the actions outlined, with upwards of 30 men dressed in black, some with dogs and some wearing balaclavas, arriving at a rural location in the middle of the night. Can we explain this arrival in a rural area in the middle of the night? It is inexplicable that this was allowed to happen. It cannot be right, and we cannot but imagine the torment of those living in this rural location, many of whom are elderly. One woman of 75 years of age says she has not gone outside her door since.

What is the procedure in regard to such actions? Is the Garda Síochána informed or asked to attend? Has the Garda Síochána the authority to say to the receiver that he or she cannot attend because of the hour of the night? Can the Minister of State please inform us whether, through the legislative process, we can ensure that actions as a result of such High Court decisions can take place only between dawn and dusk? We do not want to see it happen in our community or any other.

I thank the Minister of State for being in attendance to discuss this issue. There always have been and, unfortunately, always will be repossessions of houses, land and property, and it is a dreadful vista for any individual or family, but it happens only at the end of a lengthy process. It is a dreadful experience for others living nearby. Leaving aside the rights or wrongs of individual repossession cases, I am concerned about the protocols or guidelines for dealing with such issues.

Last week, an ongoing case in south Kildare came to a head when receivers acting on a court order attempted to take possession of land at three o'clock in the morning. It is reported that men wearing hoods with dogs were there. Neighbours stated that land was trespassed on and great intimidation took place as the situation escalated. I do not know if those in the hoods with dogs were the receivers or the protestors, but the activity took place in the middle of the night, and land belonging to third parties, who had no truck with what was going on, was crossed. Elderly people living alone were subjected to the sight of these strangers going around the area. My concern in this instance is primarily for neighbouring residents and landowners who have no involvement with either the receivers or the landowner against whom the order was made. This was always likely to be a flashpoint, because protestors were present and receivers were moving in.

In the event that a receiver is in possession of a court order, the only role of the Garda Síochána is to keep the peace, but surely the view of the Garda Síochána should have to be taken on board by the receiver if it decides on a course of action. What guidelines or protocols, other than those to do with keeping the peace, exist for the Garda Síochána to ensure that those innocent people who live nearby are not put at risk and that their property is not interfered with? Does the Garda Síochána have any say or role if receivers decide to move on a property in the middle of the night? What protocols exist for receivers? If the court order does not stipulate how the order is to be enforced, is there a limit to the level of force that can be used? If the only role of the Garda Síochána is to keep the peace, and gardaí cannot stop receivers acting at certain times in a certain manner that may inflame a situation, we are asking the Garda Síochána to play referee between two factions with their hands tied behind their back. This is a dreadful situation. We must learn from it and ensure such events do not happen in Castledermot or elsewhere.

I thank the Deputies for raising this matter. I am speaking on behalf of the Minister for Justice and Equality, who regrets she is unable to be present for the debate due to other official commitments. I will bring the views of the Deputies to her attention.

Without wanting to comment on the specific circumstances of any particular case, the Minister is very much aware of the strain that can arise for individuals and their families when their personal or business finances become distressed. In these circumstances, repossession of a home or other property inevitably brings those pressures to a head. As public representatives, we have all engaged with people struggling in these circumstances, and it is undoubtedly one of the most tangible legacies of the national economic mismanagement which this Government has been grappling with.

This Government has put in place a broad strategy to address the problem of mortgage arrears and family home repossessions. This included an extensive suite of interventions designed to address the problem, including specific Central Bank targets for the banks through the mortgage arrears resolution targets, MART. In addition, the code of conduct on mortgage arrears produced by the Central Bank sets out how mortgage lenders must treat borrowers in, or facing, mortgage arrears. We have also seen the extensive recasting of the personal insolvency legislation, including the establishment of the Insolvency Service of Ireland and the introduction of the personal insolvency agreement model. In addition, we have enhanced the provision of advice through initiatives led by Department of Social Protection. Furthermore, the mortgage to rent scheme has been put in place to assist borrowers who are in an unsustainable mortgage position in remaining in their homes through the involvement of social housing agencies.

I call attention to the review of the insolvency legislation announced as part of the statement of Government priorities. This involved consultations with all the relevant stakeholders and has been completed by the Department of Justice and Equality. Work is currently under way across Government Departments to develop a comprehensive and effective response to help those trapped in unsustainable debt to arrive at sustainable solutions. That work is expected to conclude shortly, and the Government's action plan in this area will be announced.

The Minister is conscious of the painful situations that have arisen for families and farm and business owners, a number of which have been raised specifically with her as Minister. As these cases are matters that have been, or are, before the courts, it would not be appropriate for her to comment on their specifics.

In response to the issues raised by the Deputies concerning the need for Garda guidelines on repossessions, it is important to be clear about the role and functions of members of the Garda Síochána in these circumstances. The proceedings that give rise to repossessions are first and foremost civil proceedings in which the Garda Síochána is not a party. There may be situations in which the Garda Síochána becomes aware, or is notified, that a property is to be the subject of enforcement proceedings on foot of a court order. In those circumstances, it is an operational matter for Garda Síochána management to assess whether a Garda Síochána presence is advisable so as to prevent any risk of a breach of the peace. Preserving public order is an essential function of the Garda Síochána, whether in circumstances relating to repossession or otherwise.

Where the Garda Síochána attends in those circumstances, it is equally important to be clear that it does not have a role in the repossession process itself, unless specific actions are directed by the court, and is not in a position to act as an arbiter in the proceedings. There may be confusion on this point in the public mind, but this is the legal position and the Garda Síochána is clear about this when present in such circumstances. Issues of difference or difficulty concerning the enforcement of the order are matters for the parties to resolve before the courts.

Where a breach of the peace occurs, there are of course provisions in public order and other legislation that may apply. Similarly, where an individual has concerns that a criminal action may be have been committed by any person in the course of such proceedings, this is a matter that the Garda Síochána will investigate. Furthermore, if a person feels he or she has grounds for complaint about the actions of a member of An Garda Síochána in this or any other matter, it can be pursued through a complaint to the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission.

The Minister has no function with regard to persons appointed to execute court orders who are operating under the aegis of the courts.

In conclusion, the Minister underlines that, as a matter of general Government policy, the effective management of the mortgage arrears challenges remains under continuous review. More and concerted action can be undertaken by the banks to assist customers in arrears. As the Taoiseach has previously announced, the Government is considering a range of options to support the existing framework and to improve the uptake of personal insolvency solutions.

I accept that the core issue is probably not highlighted in the format of the Topical Issue we submitted. The core issue is that a community was invaded at night-----

Yes. Hear, hear.

-----and at all hours of the morning by these people. Whether we like it or not, we must defend the right of the community to exist, or else we can do away with rural Ireland.

It is as simple as that. I ask the Minister of State to go back to the Minister for Justice and Equality and explain the position to her.

I accept that I may not have given the full picture of what is happening. We do not want this to happen again and we want the Minister - I have written to her on this matter - to review the situation so that where court decisions are made, such actions must take place between dawn and dusk-----

Business hours. Hear, hear.

-----and communities are not put under such pressure ever again.

Repossessions should not be carried out in the dead of night. Such activity just leads to a risk of a flashpoint, which has a direct impact on innocent local communities. No personal landowner should be subjected to hooded men moving around their property with dogs in the dead of night in the name of our courts. We must ensure there are no repeat instances of what happened in Kildare last week. There must be very clear guidelines for the Garda, beyond keeping the peace. Keeping the peace is not enough of a role for our gardaí. In some ways we are asking them to referee a situation with one hand tied behind their back. Clear protocols must be put in place for receivers as to how they carry out their orders.

If there are deficiencies there, we need to look at our court system. If our courts are just issuing orders with no description of how the order is to be carried out, we are allowing receivers or private security firms to act with impunity with the full weight of a High Court order behind them. They can say they can do what they like because they have a High Court order. Perhaps we need our judicial system to be more prescriptive about how the orders are carried out. The situation of people carrying on in the middle of the night, terrorising the whole community - people who have no part in the issue - is not acceptable and cannot continue.

I appreciate that the Deputies accept the role of the Garda in these circumstances. They have outlined to me a situation in which 30 or more individuals dressed in dark clothing moved across a rural community in the dead of night. This appears to be an unacceptable situation, to say the very least. The Deputies' points are well made. They are very reasonable. Such a scenario, if it were to be repeated, would naturally cause concern, not just in that community but also in other communities. People need to know where the law lies in this regard. I will make a personal commitment to the Deputies to pass on the seriousness of the Deputies' feelings on this matter, to outline the circumstances they have described and to ensure the Minister responds to them in due course.

On a point of order, the Ceann Comhairle suggested that we should complain if a Minister comes to the House and does not address the topic raised. This is not this Minister of State's fault, but the question raised by Deputies Wall and Heydon has not been addressed. We are not talking about the Garda but about a private company which came in the dead of night. We are asking that such actions be carried out only during normal working hours. We ask for a commitment that the Minister of State will ensure that.

I can read the Topical Issue for the Deputy if he wants.

The Topical Issue very clearly relates to the Garda.

I accept that.

Did the Minister of State not hear what the Deputies said?

The Minister, in whose place I am here, was asked to respond regarding "Garda guidelines in relation to house, land or property repossessions". The second Topical Issue, as outlined, was on "the need for updated Garda guidelines in relation to house, land or property repossessions". The Minister and I, on her behalf, are responding to an issue raised regarding the Garda.

The Minister of State has not responded-----

He has. The Topical Issue is very clear and the Minister of State has responded accordingly.

On a point of order, I support what the Deputies have said. I have spoken with the superintendent and the housewife. The housewife asked for the court order that night.

That is not a point of order.

The bean an tí. They had no court order, or would not produce it.

It is outrageous.

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