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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 28 May 2015

Vol. 880 No. 2

Order of Business

The Tánaiste

It is proposed to take No. c13, motion re modification of referral to select sub-committee of the proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the terms of the Statute of the International Renewable Energy Agency, IRENA; No. 13, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Companies Act 2014 (Section 1313) Regulations 2015, back from committee; No. a13, motion re approval by Dáil Éireann of general principles of disposal of shares in Aer Lingus Group plc (resumed); No. 39, Health (General Practitioner Service) Bill 2015 - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; No. 5, Communications Regulation (Postal Services) (Amendment) Bill 2015 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage; and No. 6, Industrial Relations (Amendment) Bill 2015 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that Nos. c13 and 13 shall be decided without debate; the proceedings in relation to No. a13 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 4.42 p.m. today; and the Dáil, on its rising today, shall adjourn until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 9 June, 2015.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

There are three proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. c13 and 13 agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. a13 agreed to?

Deputy Timmy Dooley

We do not agree. Not all the facts about the proposed sale of Aer Lingus are available to Members of the House or to the Irish people. If we are to discharge our duties in line with our mandate, we need the information. I have additional sections of the Nyras report, if the Tánaiste wants it. I tried to give it to the Tánaiste earlier, but was prevented from doing so by the Clerk Assistant of the House, which I will deal with later.

Deputy Kevin Humphreys

That is disgraceful.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

It is a threat.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

It would be appropriate-----

Deputy Kevin Humphreys

It is not an appropriate remark.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

Yes, it is. It is truthful. I ask the Tánaiste to get the little chirpy man beside her to stop talking while I am addressing her. I ask the Tánaiste to delay the decision to have the vote cast later today to allow the transport committee an opportunity to peruse all the details, to sit next week to address the matter and to allow for a reasoned debate.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

On a point of order, while I have the utmost respect for my colleague across the House, Deputy Timmy Dooley, in the heat of the moment said he would deal with the Clerk Assistant of the House later.

Deputy Patrick O'Donovan

He let himself down.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

It was a threat. I ask him to withdraw this remark against a civil servant.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

For clarification purposes, I intend to address the matter with the clerk to understand how he was in a position to prevent me from passing information to the Tánaiste through an usher but he could allow another usher to enter the Chamber to provide other documentation for the Tánaiste. As a Member of the House, I have been disenfranchised and would like an explanation. To address Deputy Bernard J. Durkan's concerns, I have explained what I meant.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

It is in the context of a threat. He should withdraw it.

Deputy Paul Kehoe

On a point of order, Deputy Timmy Dooley should be asked to withdraw the remark that he would be dealing with the clerk.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Did the Minister of State ever withdraw allegations made by him?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

In case there is any misunderstanding, does Deputy Timmy Dooley withdraw his first comment?

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

Withdraw.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

Clearly, the Chief Whip has a difficulty in understanding the basic elements of the English language. When I said I would deal with the matter later, as I outlined through the Chair, it pertained to my inability to pass documents to the Tánaiste through an usher because I was prevented from doing so by the clerk.

Deputy Ray Butler

The Deputy said he would deal with the clerk.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

Another set of documents was presented to the Tánaiste by a different usher without intervention by the clerk.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I did not have that information.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

That is unacceptable. It is an infringement of my rights and I want an explanation from the clerk, either in writing or verbally.

Deputy Kevin Humphreys

The Deputy is trying to pull a political stunt.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

To clarify-----

Deputy Timmy Dooley

I was alluding to that matter, but, unfortunately-----

Deputy Emmet Stagg

The Deputy's point of order has been clarified.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

-----there has been an attempt by elements in the Government to disenfranchise Members on this side of the House on an ongoing basis.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is not the issue. I ask the Deputy to clarify-----

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

He should withdraw the remark.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

Can I be any more clear?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy is not referring to anything other than raising the issue.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

I am seeking an explanation for the way in which the clerk dealt with the matter.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is fair enough.

Deputy Paul Kehoe

On a point of order, the Deputy opposite made a threat that he would deal with the clerk.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

I did not do that.

Deputy Paul Kehoe

The Deputy should be asked to withdraw it.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

The Whip makes threats every day.

Deputy Ray Butler

Deputy Timmy Dooley threatened the clerk.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

I did no such thing.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

The Deputy should withdraw the remark.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

I call on the Chief Whip to withdraw his remark.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

He has had to withdraw stuff before.

Deputy Paul Kehoe

On a point of order, Deputy Timmy Dooley made a serious threat-----

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We now seem to have two threats. We cannot allow this to continue. Deputy Timmy Dooley is clarifying what he said. He is withdrawing any question of a threat.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

There was never a question in that regard. I clarified that I intended to seek an explanation as to why I was unable to pass documents to the Tánaiste and others.

Deputy James Bannon

The Deputy has agreed to withdraw it.

(Interruptions).

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Order, please.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

On a point of order, I suggest there is too much testosterone in this Chamber.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I would not know.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

I have never heard anything as ludicrous as the last exchange.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy should speak to No. 2 on the Order Paper.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

On which side?

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

On all bloody sides. I object to the motion and the manner in which it is being handled. We have been asked to deal with a very serious decision with long-term consequences for workers, pensioners and the State in a manner that is wholly unsatisfactory and without sight of relevant and necessary documentation. Whereas the Government might be happy to rely on the shifting and qualified assurances given by the current CEO of Aer Lingus, that attitude is not shared by Sinn Féin Members and, I suspect, other Opposition Members or the general public.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I call Deputy Ruth Coppinger on behalf of the Democratic Socialist Party.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

I am speaking on behalf of the Socialist Party.

Deputy Kevin Humphreys

It was never democratic.

Deputy John Lyons

The Leas-Cheann Comhairle should withdraw that remark. The Socialist Party was never democratic.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

I will ignore the hecklers, both politically and in every other way.

I object to the manner in which the motion is being steamrolled through the Dáil. We should not be holding a vote on the issue today because it has become abundantly clear that the debate in the past 24 hours is not supported by information, documents or the letters of comfort and assurance the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport tells us he possesses. Where else have we heard about letters of comfort and assurance? The motion is being rushed through to prevent the communities, workers and families of Aer Lingus staff from putting pressure on Labour Party Deputies, in particular. Those Deputies are breaking a promise they made nine years ago when their then leader, Deputy Pat Rabbitte, jumped up and down to object to the sale of 75% of Aer Lingus. They are now saying Fianna Fáil put two bullets into the horse and even though the Labour Party is going to shoot the final bullet, they will not be the murderers. I am sorry to tell them that they will. They are putting the final nail into the coffin of public control over Aer Lingus. Will they, please, not confuse the issue? They could have sought to increase Government ownership of Aer Lingus by buying shares in the company, as recommended by the economist Paul Sweeney. It is a very important company for the country and one of the top 20 indigenous companies. This is treachery on the part of the Labour Party and we should not vote on the issue until the communities of Dublin West, Dublin North, Cork and Shannon have had a chance to ask their Deputies about it.

The Tánaiste

The Deputy has proposed that the Government spend €1 billion, money which would be taken from health, education and the care services to which Deputy Sean Fleming referred earlier. That may be the policy of a democratic socialist party, but I do not think at a time of scarce resources when families need more investment in education services, particularly in Dublin West, we should divert €1 billion to buy Aer Lingus.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

The question was about taking a vote today. Will the Tánaiste answer the question?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Tánaiste has the floor.

Deputy Ray Butler

Hold your horses.

The Tánaiste

We have protections for workers in Aer Lingus which they did not have for decades in regard to registered employment agreements.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

Answer the question.

The Tánaiste

We have guarantees on connectivity and the Heathrow Airport slots which we did not previously have.

Deputy Róisín Shortall

No, you do not.

The Tánaiste

We have ambitious plans to expand employment.

Deputy Róisín Shortall

The Tánaiste is misleading the House.

The Tánaiste

In the next few years, 635 jobs will be created in Aer Lingus, many of them high level jobs such as pilots, cabin crew and engineers.

Deputy Róisín Shortall

Rubbish.

The Tánaiste

We will see far more business as a result in terms of tourism and investment, but the employment will be more secure and there will be connectivity through the slots-----

Deputy Róisín Shortall

The Tánaiste is misleading the House.

The Tánaiste

-----through the mechanism of the B share which offers a higher guarantee than what currently applies.

Deputy Róisín Shortall

There is no such thing as a B share. There is no basis for it in law.

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with No. a13 be agreed to."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 59; Níl, 47.

Tá

Níl

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Paul Kehoe; Níl, Deputies Aengus Ó Snodaigh and Seán Ó Fearghaíl.

Question declared carried.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Is the proposal that the Dáil, on its rising today, shall adjourn until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 9 June 2015 agreed to?

Deputy Timmy Dooley

It is not agreed. In light of the difficulties we have had in convincing the Government to have an appropriate debate on the Aer Lingus sale and its unwillingness to utilise the committee structure-----

Deputy James Reilly

Fianna Fáil had nobody in the Chamber yesterday evening.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

-----we believe the House should sit next week-----

Deputy James Reilly

Nobody.

Deputy Dara Calleary

Be careful, James.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

-----to continue that debate rather than having it guillotined at the end of today. It is worth noting that since before Easter, a period of 70 days, this House will have only sat for 18 days up to 9 June.

Deputy James Reilly

Hypocrisy.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

That is notwithstanding the commitments this Government made to longer sitter periods and greater numbers of sittings on Fridays.

Deputy Michael Noonan

Fianna Fáil was probably only here for nine of those days.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

The Government is still trying to railroad through this House important decisions that need to be appropriately debated and addressed. We are seeing it again today and we saw it with the Irish Water and so many other Bills that were guillotined and forced through the House without appropriate debate.

Deputy Paul Kehoe

Rubbish.

Deputy Billy Kelleher

Shameful.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

It is on that basis that our party is opposing the notion of taking next week off.

Deputy Robert Dowds

It is absolute nonsense.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

At the same time, the Government is ramming through a decision that will have long-term and profound effects, not just for the workers in the airline but for the island of Ireland.

Deputy Micheál Martin

Hear, hear.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

We are sitting 20% more than when the Deputy's party was in government.

The Tánaiste

All I can say is that legislation has been truncated or collapsed on several occasions recently in the House because, in particular, nobody from the Deputy's party was around.

Deputy Micheál Martin

That is not true.

Deputy Niall Collins

It is untrue.

Deputy James Reilly

It had nobody here last night.

The Tánaiste

Yesterday evening-----

Deputy Niall Collins

That is a big fat lie.

The Tánaiste

The list is there on the record-----

Deputy Finian McGrath

The Independents have many Bills ready.

The Tánaiste

-----of the Dáil. For example, I am not aware there were any Fianna Fáil people in the House yesterday evening for significant sections of the debate, not even a lonely spokesperson.

Question put: "That the proposal for the adjournment of the Dáil be agreed to."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 58; Níl, 46.

Tá

Níl

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Paul Kehoe; Níl, Deputies Aengus Ó Snodaigh and Seán Ó Fearghaíl.

Question declared carried.

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