Vol. 881 No. 2
6. Deputy David Stanton asked the Minister for Education and Skills further to Parliamentary Question No. 33 of 26 March 2015, the number of persons currently undertaking apprenticeships, and the sectors in which they are training; the interest from employers and education providers in the call for new apprenticeships, since it issued in January 2015; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [18398/15]
How many people are currently training as apprentices and what plans are there for apprenticeships in the future? Would the Minister of State agree that we need a major expansion in both the number of apprenticeships and the areas covered by them?
I agree we need to expand the areas covered and believe there is cross-party support for that. This is something we have been involved in with the setting up of the new apprenticeship council. Expansion is part of the Government's plan and we have addressed the issue at Cabinet, where there is agreement across the table that this should happen and that we should increase the number of apprenticeships on offer.
At 30 April 2015, there was a total of 7,398 apprentices actively engaged with the apprenticeship system. There were 1,521 in the construction sector, 2,724 in the electrical sector, 1,340 in the engineering sector, 1,792 in the motor sector and 21 in the printing sector. These figures represent an approximately 40% increase on the registrations since 2013. Numbers are up in existing apprenticeships, a positive development, and we expect these numbers to continue rising over the next three years to 2018.
In regard to new types of apprenticeship, the Apprenticeship Council of Ireland was set up last September-October and it called for proposals from the public in January this year. The council received 86 separate proposals for new apprenticeships from 48 organisations before the 31 March deadline. This is a competitive process, but there has been a very strong response and submissions which will lead to qualifications at a range of levels were received from a wide range of sectors. There was a particularly strong interest from the manufacturing and engineering sector, accounting for 24 submissions. A substantial number of proposals were also received from areas such as the built environment, tourism and sport and financial services.
The council is currently in the process of evaluating submissions and it is required to report to the Department by 30 June. We have a strong belief that we need to provide young people with a broad range of education and training options which give them fulfilment and prepare them for work and for life. The idea behind apprenticeships is that people are provided with a blend of education and on and off the job training. However, these apprenticeships must be employer led and driven. We look forward to making significant progress in expanding the range of apprenticeships available in Ireland over the coming months and in 2016. The Deputy may rest assured that it is our full intention to move forward on this.
Will the Minister of State indicate his targets in respect to the number of apprentices he would like to see involved in the various areas eventually? What are the targets? What capacity is there for dealing with the level of applications? In other words, how many have applied for each apprenticeship and how many have been facilitated? Am I correct that the number of applicants far exceeds the capacity to facilitate them? Will the Minister of State also comment on the perception that there is significant emphasis on directing young people into third level? Are there any plans to try to rebalance that, because third level is not for everybody?
I will begin with the last question. I agree there is too much emphasis on third level and during the boom years or over the past 20 years we have probably turned our backs on the further education and training sector. I sense that most people recognise now we must correct that and the Department is trying to do so. From talking to career guidance teachers, to teachers in general and to employers, I believe most people now believe we need a blend of further education and training along with higher education. We need that blend to manage the problem with the skills gap as we know jobs are being created that we cannot fill. They will only be filled by providing the skills through a combination of higher education and further education and training. We are trying to correct the situation and have a five-year plan, developed by SOLAS, which should address the issue. There has been significant reform in the sector and SOLAS and our educational training boards, ETBs, are driving that agenda.
The challenge facing us is to convince parents, decision makers and students that there are options and many different routes to developing a career and obtaining the qualifications needed.
Will the Minister of State comment on the Department's targets? What numbers would it like to see in apprenticeships? Will he also comment on the level of interest and the capacity to facilitate those interested? What is the State's role in providing apprenticeships and what is it doing?
Apprenticeships must be employer driven and employers must be involved. On capacity, it is a bit of a chicken and egg situation. We needed to find out what was wanted and needed and we put significant effort, through various Departments such as the Departments of Education and Skills and Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, into getting people interested in this issue and to get people to make proposals. We have those proposals now and the apprenticeship council must assess which of the 86 submissions are viable and needed. The council will make recommendations on which and how many proposals should result in full apprenticeships and may make recommendations that some are suited to a different route, such as a traineeship.
When we receive the report in June, we must assess what is required to make this happen. Many of the proposals will be acted on this year or next. No curriculum for them has been developed yet as they are still proposals. The apprenticeship council, SOLAS and the Department will assess how many can be implemented. The Deputy asked what was our target, but we do not have a specific target in each area. We know that in sectors such as haulage, there is a requirement for approximately 1,000 extra drivers per year over the next four or five years. This has been assessed by the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation. We must decide how many of these positions should be filled through apprenticeships.
SOLAS will monitor the numbers required in all sectors and we will not repeat what happened previously, where there were far too many apprenticeships in some sectors, leaving people high and dry when the crash came. The situation will be managed nationally by SOLAS, which will work with the ETBs, institutes of technology and other providers to get the numbers right. We are trying to respond to the need, but first we needed to get the proposals and examine them to see what is needed. We may require legislation for this, but we will certainly require extra resources. We must find the way to make that happen and intend to do that.
I fully support the initiative the Department is undertaking in regard to apprenticeships, which I believe are a key economic driver now and for the future. We need to learn from the past situation where we tailored our apprenticeships for the here and now, for example, for construction. When the construction area blew up, we ended up with people without skills in other areas. We need to factor this into decisions in regard to apprenticeships. SOLAS will play a key role and it is already developing an apprenticeship model for the hotel sector which will be rolled out in the last quarter of this year. We need to diversify our apprenticeship models and keep in mind future trends and ensure people are skilled so that when there is a crash in one sector, they will be able to sidestep into a different profession quickly and easily.
That is what we are trying to do. We are trying to cater for now and for the future. Some of the sectors that have made proposals are the hotel and catering sector and manufacturing and engineering, with 24 submissions. There were 12 submissions in the built environment area, ten in tourism, ten in financial services, eight in arts, crafts and media, six in information technology, six in transport logistics, four in business administration management, three in the agriculture, horticulture and marine sector, two in natural resources and one in sales and marketing.
As I said, the process is competitive and not all of the proposals will win through. Some will be found not fit for purpose in the assessment process which is taking place currently. SOLAS has a major role to play here, working with the apprenticeship council, to ensure we get right an estimate of the number of apprenticeships we need. We cannot allow an over supply of the skills required, but there is an under supply currently. SOLAS must work with employers to ensure there is a proper blend of on the job training and education and to ensure apprenticeships are adaptable to circumstances. They may be from two to four years and involve different levels of education. It must ensure the apprenticeship model is strong and the balance is right and that if a sector hits a low point, the apprentice's skills will be transferable to another sector.
7. Deputy Tom Fleming asked the Minister for Education and Skills if she will introduce a scheme for early school leavers, given that approximately one in five second level students, from the age of 13 or 14, are currently disengaging from school, whereby they could engage in a three or four year apprenticeship in the skills required by modern manufacturing and service industries for 50% of the time, and they could also continue in school with their peers studying in a core academic curriculum, as the model exists for this very successful vocational training option for students in Germany, under the European baccalaureate vocational model; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [21922/15]
Will the Minister consider introducing a scheme to facilitate early school leavers, because currently approximately 20% of students disengage from second level education?
The scheme would engage students for a period of three to four years in an apprenticeship which would be particularly suitable for the skills required by modern employers in industry, including the manufacturing and service industries. The scheme is already in place in Europe, in particular, Germany. It is called the baccalaureate system. It allows students to continue their education on a 50% basis and they are seconded to an apprenticeship on a 50% basis, which runs concurrently. Will the Minister consider seriously the introduction of such a scheme?
The Deputy may be aware of a report from last February showing that of students who started post-primary school in 2008 almost 97% sat the junior certificate and more than 90% sat the leaving certificate. Ireland's upper secondary retention rates compare favourably with other EU member states. In Ireland we have a broad and balanced model of education which seeks not to compartmentalise students' learning at too early an age. An expert independent group has recently recommended against making employment-based training programmes or apprenticeships available to Irish students under 16. We also currently provide vocational opportunities through the leaving certificate vocational programme. This programme is taken by about 30% of students and combines academic subjects with so-called link modules which focus on enterprise and preparation for the world of work. The leaving certificate applied also provides vocational opportunities for senior cycle students. Pathways like Youthreach give such options for early school leavers. Work experience also features prominently in transition year, which is taken by two thirds of 15 and 16 year olds. Ireland is moving in the right direction in providing a broad balanced education for students, while having regard to best practice in other countries.
On the apprenticeship issue, we are really talking about students aged 16 years and upwards in full apprenticeships which involves employers and so forth, on which the Minister of State, Deputy English, has just spoken.
Students are disengaging from school or dropping out in first or second year for various social reasons - for instance, some pupils are not academic. Those who are lost in the system are going down a cul-de-sac and have nowhere to go. We know the consequences of that. They can find themselves in an undesirable situation, which can pose huge problems for families and communities. I am not condemning anyone as such because they are victims, perhaps, of our system. It is time to grasp the nettle. I understand the Minister's explanation but the percentages and statistics I have been given are alarming. Will the Minister review the matter? We can look to the European systems, which are very successful. Employers are looking for matching skills. If these people could come out of our education system at 18 or 19 years of age with sufficient training, this is something we cannot ignore.
As indicated in the response of the Minister of State, Deputy English, we are looking seriously at widening the whole concept of apprenticeships and providing that alternative path for students as a real career opportunity and we are encouraging parents to see that as an absolutely viable and equal alternative. We do not favour children setting out on that path at too early an age. Some 97% of children sit the junior cycle examinations. The percentages that drop out at that early age are actually very small. We want students to stay in school until they are 16.
The junior cycle reform, on which I have been working fairly hard since I became Minister, is precisely about giving the opportunity to value different students and their different skills, which is why we want assessment in the school of group work, practical work and so on. That is specifically designed to address students who are disengaged at that early age and to ensure they are valued for their skills and abilities. I stand over that policy. We want children to stay in school until they are 16 and then have the different pathways.
The vocational model currently utilised in Germany, in particular, is of high quality and is successful on the Continent. We would want to look more closely at it. We also have to examine the needs of employers and the quality of qualifications. In some cases, employers may have to wait too long to get people who may be coming out of third level but who may not have degrees that are suitable to the current requirements of employers. We also have to look at the demands made by foreign direct investment. We are not satisfying the needs of those people either. The other matter I raise is modern languages-----
The Deputy is way over time.
-----which have been taken off the primary school curriculum. It is a huge loss that we cannot give pupils a grounding in continental languages, which would enable them to access employment, in particular with various technology industries at the moment.
I thank the Deputy.
We would want to examine the issue of satisfying the requirements of those associated with foreign direct investment.
Will Deputy Fleming and other Members please watch the clock? We are over time.
I will be very brief.
Will the Minister conclude, please?
I do not disagree with Deputy Fleming on any of those matters. He is right about languages and so on. I differ with the Deputy, however, on the age at which young people should start in the workplace. We are learning from Germany and Austria and we want to follow their models with regard to having many more apprenticeship opportunities-----
That is training.
-----but we want the children to stay in school until they are 16.
Deputy Jim Daly is not present, so Deputy Seán Kyne's question will be next.
9. Deputy Seán Kyne asked the Minister for Education and Skills if she will report on the current status of the effort to build a new second level school at a location (details supplied) in County Galway; when it is envisaged that the project will commence; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [22023/15]
This question relates to Clifden community school which was granted a new building in June 2013. Unfortunately, the tenderer pulled out. Will the Minister provide an update on that project and the commitment to it?
I advise the Deputy that the new school building project in County Galway is at an advanced stage of architectural planning. The design team is preparing to retender the project following difficulties with the first tender exercise. The new pre-qualification of contractors list has been finalised and the revised stage 2b cost plan is currently being examined by my Department. The project is on my Department's five-year construction programme and will soon be progressed through the new tender process. It is anticipated that the design team will shortly be in a position to issue tender documents to the selected contractors and, subject to no issues arising, construction of the new school should commence before the end of 2015.
I thank the Minister for the reply. It is welcome that progress is being made and that construction will start before the end of 2015. This project has been long sought. There was an 11-year campaign for it. I commend the work of my colleague, Councillor Eileen Mannion, who has worked tirelessly on this project. It was great news in 2013 when the Minister's predecessor announced, under that capital plan, that Clifden community school was to progress to a new build. It has a huge catchment area. There are 400 pupils in the area, stretching from Roundstone across to Maam and Leenane, and obviously the existing facilities are not fit for purpose. It was unfortunate that the original tenderer pulled out for whatever reason, but I am delighted to see that work is continuing to retender this project and that the Department is committed to construction starting in 2015. I thank the Minister for her response and I am sure that she will continue to ensure to keep a close eye on this important project for the north Connemara area.
I assure the Deputy that the funding is available because it is in the programme. Once it commences, we expect it will take about 18 months to construct the new school.
Deputy Lucinda Creighton is not present in the Chamber to take her question.
11. Deputy Mick Wallace asked the Minister for Education and Skills if she has had discussions with the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation or with the Department of Environment, Community and Local Government regarding the possible introduction of a specific training grant to assist small steel fabricators affected by European Union Directive EN-1090-1, who are now obliged to undergo CE (Conformité Européene) marking standards compliance training, which is often costly; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [21866/15]
In July 2014, EU Directive EN-1090-1 came into force requiring all structural steelwork in the European Union to be CE-marked. The training, testing and certification costs involved in the CE-marking process can cost a business anywhere between €20,000 and €30,000. The only State assistance available is a 20% discount on training costs through Skillnets which amounts to about €200, a pittance of the overall cost. Does the Minister have any plans, in conjunction with the other relevant Departments, to introduce a specific training grant to assist small steel fabricators to comply with this EU directive?
My Department has engaged with the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation and the National Standards Authority of Ireland, NSAI, on this issue. An information leaflet is being prepared for the sector for distribution through local enterprise offices, LEOs.
In 2015, education and training boards, ETBs, and institutes of technology will offer over 2,000 places on a variety of welding courses. Typically, fees are not payable by unemployed people but are charged to those in employment. Subsidised training is also provided through two Skillnets networks in responsible welding co-ordinator training. While welding practices and co-ordination are important elements to compliance with this directive, it should be noted that other compliance elements need to be tailored to the specific workplace and cannot, therefore, be arranged through the mainstream education and training system. My Department funds ETBs and institutes of technology and provides co-financing to Skillnets but does not provide grants to employers to access training. It funds educational training provision in respect of welding skills, as well as responsible welding co-ordinator skills through the ETBs and the further and higher education system. There are several elements involved in the route to compliance with this directive regarding steel fabrication. Several of those elements, including factory production control procedures, welding process specifications and applications of the NSAI for audit and certification, require an audit and assessment of the workplace and cannot, therefore, be arranged through the mainstream education and training system.
The Minister of State essentially said the Department is not structured to help out in a serious way. Too often when different Departments are involved in a matter like this, it just ends up being pushed around a bit. The firms in question generally employ between four and five people. They will not be able to come up with the kind of money in question. While regulation is good, this is more about bureaucracy and paperwork. Once the training and certification is obtained, the work is not tested anymore. It is like the lack of inspection in house building.
In Britain, 70% of the cost is subsidised by the UK Government. If this Government is serious about small and medium-sized enterprises and wanting people to stay in business, it will have to help the firms in question because they will not be able to afford this certification. Over 1,000 companies will be affected by this.
We are monitoring what is happening in other countries and I will check what is happening in the UK. We help with the training and qualifications end of this. Full-time and part-time courses are provided in all the areas affected by this directive through the ETBs and institutes of technology, as well as Skillnets which involves employers. There are many options available at the training end. However, some of this has to do with work practices in the workplace. This is not an area in which the Department of Education and Skills can get involved.
I accept the Deputy’s point that the overall co-ordination is an extra burden on these companies. We are examining this through the LEOs. We are involved in the skills end of this but we do not have a role in the auditing of the workplace. That has to be arranged with the companies in question. Many employer groups are involved in this in terms of putting together various options. Skillnets is the place where we can enhance provision.
The majority of the cost is the actual training. Does the Department subsidise the training? The certification comes after one passes the testing of the weld. The testing of the weld is done after one does the training; then one gets a certification if one passes. Is the Department subsidising the training end of this? It would beggar belief if we cannot find a way to keep these people in business.
There are over 2,000 places for upskilling in this area through a combination of full-time and evening programmes. Some of this is subsidised. If one is unemployed, these courses are provided free by the Department of Social Protection and the Department of Education and Skills. In other cases, there is a charge. A course is generally 25 weeks to 28 weeks long and costs usually between €250 to €300. This is generally paid for by the person themselves or by their employer. Skillnets, a combination of taxpayers’ and employers’ money, is where much of this training is provided. That is where the solution is. Maybe we can tailor the programme slightly differently to deal with this.
I accept companies are under pressure with these new regulations but there are other directives that affect other companies in other areas. We must constantly ensure educational provision caters for that and takes on board new directives. In some cases, the actual on-the-job training is not a solution the Department can provide.
The actual grant the Minister of State referred to is actually €200. Companies that have checked this out are looking at having to pay between €20,000 and €30,000 to get this done. Many of them are going to England because it is much cheaper there. One can get it done there for as low as €15,000. If one had a British passport, one could get a 75% subsidy from the UK Government on top of that.
This directive will affect up to 5,000 jobs and push out the small man unless the Government does something active to help. It will be the bigger companies doing steel fabrication as a result. That would be a shame because the small firms that employ between four and five people are, from my experience, the best guys to do welding. They tend to be far more professional and good in their approach.
I will investigate exactly what is on offer in England compared to here to see what the different systems provide and if there is anything to improve our provision. A range of options through many courses are being provided through various arms of the State. The Deputy is correct that the cost is often borne by a combination of employers, business owners and the taxpayer. I will certainly examine the UK system to see if it is placing our companies at a major disadvantage.
12. Deputy Jonathan O'Brien asked the Minister for Education and Skills the date on which she expects to receive the Higher Education Authority report on gender equality in third level colleges, following the recent audit which the authority initiated. [21931/15]
The HEA has recently initiated a system-wide review of higher education institutions' gender profiles and gender equality policies which will encompass all higher education institutions under its remit. The review will analyse the status quo in higher education in respect of gender equality, examine the reasons for continuing gender inequality among staff across the sector and make recommendations to address this. These will include recommendations on how higher education institutions can enhance their equality policies and the implementation of those policies, as well as recommendations on how the HEA, my Department and other relevant bodies can support those institutions in that regard. The review is expected to conclude in June 2016 and will involve self-evaluation by the institutions concerned, as well as site visits by a review team.
The reason I put down this question is due to the significant concerns at NUI Galway where four female lecturers have taken gender equality cases, three of whom have taken High Court cases and one who has gone to a tribunal. Professor Pat O’Connor, from the University of Limerick, an expert in gender equality, has turned down an invitation from the task force to advise it on gender inequality in third level institutions.
The task force has been given the power to establish its own terms of reference, which, in my opinion, is a mistake. They should have been done independently and given to the task force. The terms of reference have been criticised by IFUT and SIPTU, which give full backing to the female lecturers in NUI Galway. Has the Minister seen the terms of reference? If not, why not? Will she also comment on the composition of the task force itself, which Professor Pat O'Connor has said is not made up of people with expertise in the area of gender equality?
On the Galway situation, I have made my concerns very clear regarding the shortcomings identified by the Equality Tribunal, specifically in the case of Dr. Sheehy Skeffington. The fact that NUI Galway unreservedly accepted this and established a task force is to be welcomed. I have again stated clearly that the task force needs to have the confidence of people in NUI Galway and the body of the university. I have urged NUI Galway to make every effort to ensure it has this confidence. I have already stated these views.
There is no doubt that higher education in Ireland has not promoted women in a way that would be expected in terms of the general population and the number of women academics. The fact that an Irish woman was recently given the most senior job in Oxford is an indication there is nothing wrong with Irish women's ability to have high office in universities. I strongly support the carrying out of the review. I have not seen the terms of reference. I have detail on what is intended to be done by the review team, but I have not seen the specific terms of reference. I am not certain whether they have been specifically drafted - I will check - but I have been given an indication of what they will be doing.
As the Minister is aware, Dr. Sheehy Skeffington won the tribunal and was awarded €70,000, which she has donated towards the legal costs of the High Court action. The fact that the Minister has not seen the terms of reference is an indication of how NUI Galway is approaching the issue. There is considerable criticism from the female lecturers themselves as well as the unions representing them, IFUT and SIPTU, who have said there has been a considerable lack of consultation in drafting the terms of reference. As the Minister pointed out, unless there is confidence in the terms of reference and the ability of the task force to carry out the work it is supposed to carry out to look at gender inequality issues, and unless it has the support of the student body, the trade unions and the female lecturers, it is a dead duck before it even begins.
To clarify, it is the terms of reference of the HEA review to which I referred when I stated I had not seen them. I have a list of what they will have regard to, including the statutory obligations; the obligations of universities and institutes of technology to prepare and implement equality policies; the complete self-evaluation questionnaires that will be submitted; site visits, which are important; and meetings with those institutions and with members of governing bodies, presidents and other senior officers responsible for equality matters, a cross-section of staff and student representatives of the relevant groups. This is the information I have on what they will look at.
Has the Minister seen the terms of reference for the task force?
The Deputy was asking me about the task force. I am aware of the terms of reference of the task force.
13. Deputy Thomas P. Broughan asked the Minister for Education and Skills the current status of the six organisations providing educational services to children with autism; her plans to roll out these services further; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [21863/15]
In reply to a recent parliamentary question the Minister confirmed that six private organisations, Jonix Educational Services, PALS Preschool, the Shine Centre for Autism, Hope Montessori Autism Care Centre, Aurore Child Development Centre and Early Intervention Support Services, EISS, had received between €2.2 million, in the case of Jonix, and €0.54 million for the 2013 to 2014 terms. They provide preschool education to young children with autism. I understand this funding comes from home tuition scheme payments. What is the status of these private organisations? Has a review of their effectiveness been carried out? How were decisions reached regarding the allocation of contracts and funding in each of these cases? I have asked the Minister and her predecessor this question on numerous occasions throughout the history of this Dáil without a satisfactory answer. The Minister recently sent me a detailed answer in written form but it raises many more questions.
Where parents of children who are eligible for home tuition have sought alternative arrangements to be put in place for the tuition, the Department has responded by putting arrangements in place with six private preschool providers which provide group tuition to children in a class-type setting. Each of these providers was selected by the parents. The Department will consider similar arrangements with other private providers should parents of eligible children request this. In recognition of the demand for group arrangements by parents of children who are eligible for home tuition under the scheme, the Department now advises all such parents of the option of entering a group arrangement with other parents of children for whom home tuition has been sanctioned. Parents wishing to enter into such an arrangement must notify the Department in advance for approval. The arrangements must conform to the general terms of the scheme.
How are decisions made regarding the allocation of these contracts and funding? I have previously asked the Minister about the terms and conditions placed on service providers and about how the tendering process operates. In her lengthy written reply to me, the Minister mentioned a contract given to Jonix in 2008. Other organisations provide similar services, but no contracts were made with them. In her reply of 4 June the Minister also stated that the Department had no contract with preschool providers and it is essentially, as she reiterated today, between the parents and the relevant provider. How can it be the case that more than €3.2 million was paid to service providers who must adhere to certain conditions to qualify when the Minister states that she has no contract with them?
What is the delay in publishing the policy report of the National Council for Special Education which was recommended by the Ombudsman for Children?
We do not have any contracts. It is essentially the parents who choose the provider, and the arrangement is made between the parents or the group of parents and the provider. One organisation was agreed on back in 2008 and the rate was calculated on the basis of a collective rate for each group of six children, for whom the Department pays a sum equivalent to 48 hours calculated at the primary qualified rate and 72 hours calculated at the unqualified rate. There is a general procedure for home tuition which is used for these groups. This is the arrangement that has been there for some time and continues under the scheme, so the Department does not have a direct relationship.
The Deputy asked me another question at the end.
It was on the policy report of the National Council for Special Education which was recommended by the Ombudsman for Children.
Recommendations have been made on special education and changing to a new model. I am not sure whether this is what the Deputy is asking about. We have decided that we do not have enough information, particularly on complex needs, to introduce the new model in September but we will introduce pilots of the model in September. I announced some variation, particularly on hours for children with Down's syndrome. The actual full new model will not be introduced in the next school year.
