I understand from the Government Chief Whip there was a sixth fatality in the accident in Berkeley.
Order of Business
I am very sorry to hear that.
It is proposed to take No. 13, motion re ministerial rota for parliamentary questions; No. 14, motion re membership of committee; and No. 6, Urban Regeneration and Housing Bill 2015 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage.
It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: (1) the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. and adjourn not later than 10.30 p.m.; (2) Nos. 13 and 14 shall be decided without debate; (3) Private Members’ business which shall be No. 71, Employment Equality (Amendment) Bill 2015 – Second Stage, shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 90 minutes on Wednesday, 17 June; and (4) pursuant to Standing Order 82 (3), the Dáil shall waive its instruction that not more than two select committees shall meet to consider a Bill on any given day in the case of the proposed meeting of the Select sub-Committee on Communications, Energy and Natural Resources to consider the Communications Regulation (Postal Services) (Amendment) Bill 2015 on Wednesday, 17 June.
Tomorrow’s business after Oral Questions shall be: No. 37, Consumer Protection (Regulation of Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2015 - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; No. 38, Teaching Council (Amendment) Bill 2015 - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; and No. 1, Children (Amendment) Bill 2015 [Seanad] - Second Stage.
There are four proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with the late sitting agreed to?
It is not agreed. Our Whip wrote to the Chief Whip last week to protest at the proposed schedule for this week not least because of the late sittings promised for Tuesday and Thursday but also in the light of the manner in which legislation was being crammed into the Thursday sitting and the fact that Topical Issues were being relegated on a regular basis to the end of the day's business, replicating the old Adjournment debate system which we unanimously agreed to change. We are opposing the proposal for the late sitting this evening. It is proposed to commence the debate on the Urban Regeneration and Housing Bill 2015 at 9 p.m. and adjourn at 10.30 p.m. We will be sitting late again tomorrow evening and adjourning at 10 p.m. on Thursday. This follows a period in which the Dáil only met for 18 days out of 70. This speaks to the Government's mismanagement of the legislative programme.
It is extraordinary.
The least the House should expect is an orderly flow of legislation throughout the year. We now have a ridiculous scenario. We met for one and a half days after the May bank holiday weekend and nothing seemed to happen during the month of May in terms of debating legislation. We took a full week off after the June bank holiday. Now everything is being crammed in during the last few weeks of the term. That means that legislation will not be properly considered. Members will be debating important legislation late at night. This flies in the face of what the programme for Government stated would happen in dealing with legislation. That is the basis on which we oppose the proposal that the Dáil sit later than 9 p.m. It is not good enough to discuss an important Bill at that late hour because it does not treat the House with the respect it deserves.
Sinn Féin is also opposing the proposal for the late sitting because it is unnecessary. We had a recess which was completely unnecessary at the start of the month. It appears to us that the Government is attempting to cram legislation in before the summer recess. This does not represent orderly management of the legislative programme. It is also unfair and has implications for Deputies with young children. In particular, it deters women who might otherwise seek election to the Dáil. At the risk of getting myself into some bother, during the last late sitting I met one Deputy - I will not name him - who was quite drunk. Backbenchers are sitting about with nothing to do but go to the bar. Our business has been reduced to this. We oppose the proposal because it flies in the face of the talk about Dáil reform.
We have to get business done. Deputy Ruth Coppinger has just claimed that we had no debates on construction and housing. Some of Deputy Micheál Martin's spokespeople do not turn not up for debates on Bills.
That is not true.
It is true.
It is true.
The Taoiseach has a habit of telling untruths. I cannot use the word "lie".
We have just spent an hour dealing with questions on the Cabinet sub-committee on housing.
The Taoiseach is acting the blackguard.
The Urban Regeneration and Housing Bill 2015 is very necessary legislation which has been delayed on a number of occasions. It is time to proceed with it. The Deputies opposite are all speaking about housing and housing provision.
Why can we not debate it at a normal hour?
It is time to proceed with it and deal with the situation before us.
Why did the Dáil not sit this morning instead of at 2 p.m?
This Bill is an important element of the provision of houses for people who need them.
The Government spent a week congratulating itself in its spring statements.
It will allow the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, his Department and the local authorities to deal with the issues we have been debating for the past 65 minutes.
Why did the Dáil only start at 2 p.m?
5 o'clock
Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with the late sitting be agreed to."
The Dáil divided: Tá, 66; Níl, 44.
Tá
- Bannon, James.
- Barry, Tom.
- Breen, Pat.
- Burton, Joan.
- Butler, Ray.
- Buttimer, Jerry.
- Byrne, Eric.
- Carey, Joe.
- Coffey, Paudie.
- Collins, Áine.
- Conaghan, Michael.
- Conlan, Seán.
- Connaughton, Paul J.
- Costello, Joe.
- Creed, Michael.
- Daly, Jim.
- Deasy, John.
- Deenihan, Jimmy.
- Deering, Pat.
- Dowds, Robert.
- Durkan, Bernard J.
- English, Damien.
- Farrell, Alan.
- Feighan, Frank.
- Ferris, Anne.
- Fitzpatrick, Peter.
- Harrington, Noel.
- Harris, Simon.
- Heydon, Martin.
- Howlin, Brendan.
- Humphreys, Kevin.
- Keating, Derek.
- Kehoe, Paul.
- Kelly, Alan.
- Kenny, Enda.
- Kenny, Seán.
- Kyne, Seán.
- Lawlor, Anthony.
- Lynch, Kathleen.
- Lyons, John.
- McCarthy, Michael.
- McFadden, Gabrielle.
- McGinley, Dinny.
- McLoughlin, Tony.
- Maloney, Eamonn.
- Mitchell, Olivia.
- Mulherin, Michelle.
- Nash, Gerald.
- Naughten, Denis.
- Neville, Dan.
- Nolan, Derek.
- O'Donovan, Patrick.
- O'Dowd, Fergus.
- O'Mahony, John.
- O'Reilly, Joe.
- O'Sullivan, Jan.
- Penrose, Willie.
- Quinn, Ruairí.
- Reilly, James.
- Ring, Michael.
- Ryan, Brendan.
- Stagg, Emmet.
- Tuffy, Joanna.
- Varadkar, Leo.
- Wall, Jack.
- White, Alex.
Níl
- Adams, Gerry.
- Aylward, Bobby.
- Boyd Barrett, Richard.
- Broughan, Thomas P.
- Browne, John.
- Calleary, Dara.
- Collins, Niall.
- Colreavy, Michael.
- Coppinger, Ruth.
- Cowen, Barry.
- Creighton, Lucinda.
- Daly, Clare.
- Dooley, Timmy.
- Ellis, Dessie.
- Ferris, Martin.
- Fitzmaurice, Michael.
- Flanagan, Terence.
- Fleming, Sean.
- Fleming, Tom.
- Grealish, Noel.
- Healy, Seamus.
- Healy-Rae, Michael.
- Kelleher, Billy.
- Kirk, Seamus.
- Kitt, Michael P.
- McDonald, Mary Lou.
- McGrath, Finian.
- McGrath, Mattie.
- McLellan, Sandra.
- Martin, Micheál.
- Mathews, Peter.
- Moynihan, Michael.
- Murphy, Paul.
- Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
- Ó Cuív, Éamon.
- Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
- Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
- O'Dea, Willie.
- Pringle, Thomas.
- Ross, Shane.
- Smith, Brendan.
- Stanley, Brian.
- Troy, Robert.
- Wallace, Mick.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Paul Kehoe; Níl, Deputies Aengus Ó Snodaigh and Dara Calleary.
Question declared carried.
Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 13 and 14, without debate, agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Private Members' business agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal that the Dáil shall waive its instruction that not more than two select committees shall meet to consider a Bill on any given day in the case of the proposed meeting of the Select Sub-Committee on Communications, Energy and Natural Resources agreed to? Agreed.
Would Members who are leaving the House please do so quickly? We have a time constraint. We have a postponed vote so Members might as well hang around. It is coming up after the Order Business in ten minutes.
I wish to put to the Taoiseach a proposal for Government time. Last evening there was a very serious programme on RTE in respect of collusion between British state security forces and loyalist paramilitary groups over a sustained period which resulted in the murder of innocent people. It was an excellent investigative programme and, as such, merits the most serious consideration by the Oireachtas and the Government. I call on the Taoiseach to set time aside to facilitate a comprehensive debate on the matters covered by that programme and other matters, if necessary. We have been calling for various debates in respect of related matters on Northern Ireland but for some reason they have not been ordered or managed by Government. I sincerely put it to the Taoiseach that in light of last evening's programme, there is an importance to debating in this House the issues that emanate from that programme. They go to the heart of the relationship between our Government, our State, the British state and the British Government.
I am unsure whether the Taoiseach has been in touch with the Prime Minister in respect of the content of that programme or whether he has spoken to the British ambassador on the matter, but it is very serious and merits the Oireachtas taking it seriously. I am asking that the Government would agree to set time aside to facilitate the debate on the issues that arose in that programme.
I understand it has emerged that the businessman, Denis O'Brien, has begun a legal action against the State arising from speeches and remarks made in the Dáil about his banking affairs with the State-owned Irish Banking Resolution Corporation. Essentially it is challenging stances and statements made by various Deputies. I am keen to ensure the Government and the Oireachtas take such a challenge to the fundamentals of our democracy, including the parliamentary right to speech, very seriously indeed and that the strongest of legal representation will be secured by the Oireachtas and the State to resist this particular challenge. In many ways it is extraordinary that we are at this particular point. In essence, something that has been cherished since the foundation of the State, that is, the right to parliamentary privilege and of Deputies to articulate views they believe to be in the public interest, is being challenged in such a comprehensive and substantive way. This matter goes to the heart of our parliamentary democracy and I am asking for the Taoiseach's comments on the matter.
In the programme for Government specific promises were made on caring for older people, specifically: "Investment in the supply of more and better care for older people in the community and in residential settings will be a priority of this Government." HIQA has made recommendations in reports about a number of local district hospitals. Approximately 26 of those hospitals have not yet provided an accepted funded plan to construct or refurbish units, although it was determined by HIQA that they should. Approximately 1,372 beds in these district hospitals throughout the country are now in danger - many of them are in the southern part of the country - as a result of Government inaction and failure to provide the necessary funding in line with its programme for Government and legislative commitments in terms of the supply of more and better care for older people. Will the Taoiseach confirm that the Government is going to fulfil its commitment in the programme for Government in respect of these district hospitals and the need to ensure these 1,372 beds are kept open?
Before the Taoiseach replies, I remind the Deputy that any actions taken against the Houses of the Oireachtas is a matter for the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission and will be considered in due course by the Oireachtas Commission.
Thank you for that clarification, a Cheann Comhairle. The right and privilege of Members to have their say on matters of public interest was confirmed in the High Court in the recent case adjudicated and clarified by the judge. That is in accordance with everyone's understanding of the situation given the fact that there is constitutional protection to the right of privilege of elected Members. That privilege is so important in the interests of public concern and democracy. It is a privilege that has to be exerted with responsibility. I accept the Ceann Comhairle's ruling to the effect that any action taken against this State or the Oireachtas will be responded to by the Oireachtas commission.
I think it is appropriate that we should have a comprehensive debate on Northern Ireland. We have had questions on sexual abuse, collusion, the issue of Ballymurphy and a number of other areas, not to mention the difficulties in general that apply here. For the information of Members, I have given a commitment that the State would supply information that is relevant and legal in respect of the coroner's inquest arising from the Kingsmill massacre. This had to be done in two stages: a decision by Cabinet in principle and then the issuing of a direction to the Garda Commissioner. The decision in principle was taken two weeks ago. Since then, the Garda Commissioner has followed the instructions and direction of the Minister for Justice and Equality. Information was transferred by gardaí to the coroner last week in Belfast. This is in accordance with a commitment that was given. I hope it is also a demonstration for others that where paperwork and documentation relevant to other incidents in Northern Ireland can be provided by the British Government, that should also apply. Since we are in the business of reconciliation, a Cheann Comhairle, I believe this is an important issue.
I will bring Deputy Martin up to date in respect of the residential beds to which he referred. I know that HIQA has commenced unannounced inspections in many cases and is highlighting the inadequacy and the general conduct of personnel in a number of institutions where elderly people are residents.
The Deputy will be aware of a number of pending court cases arising from an inspection last year and an exposure of what was happening in those institutions.
Will the Taoiseach give us the figures?
I will give the House the figures as I have them.
What is actually going to be done?
I too wish to raise the issue of last night's programme on collusion. I do so in two contexts: first, the need for a debate in this House and, second, the question of the Good Friday Agreement and the commitments in the programme for Government to the full implementation of that Agreement. I welcome the Taoiseach's indication that a debate will take place. However, he has said consistently that there would be a debate on a motion regarding the Ballymurphy massacre. I welcome the fact we received a draft motion, which I signed off on in consultation with the families. However, we are still waiting for a date for that debate. It is difficult to get issues relating to the North discussed here with the frequency they require. Will the Taoiseach request or instruct the Government Chief Whip to arrange these debates before the summer recess?
Last night's programme tells us, particularly people like me from the North, what we have already known for a very long time, namely, the depth at which the British Government directed, from the highest political level, the killing of citizens. It is also clear from some of the former Government spokespersons that successive Governments here were aware of or at least suspected collusion. In my view, successive Irish Governments have failed hundreds of families of citizens in the North but also in this State. The most obvious example is the Dublin-Monaghan bombings but there are other cases, including the Dundalk bombings in 1975, in which Hugh Watters and Jack Rooney were killed, and the case of Seamus Ludlow. The Government has a responsibility in these matters. It is not just a matter of our having a debate. The Government is co-equal guarantor of the Good Friday Agreement. Where does the citizen look to if not to the Government? The Finucane inquiry has not been established and the British Government is saying it will not establish it. I have come in here many times and asked the Government to put together a strategy, using our international friends and our diplomatic capacity, to get the British Government to do what it is obliged to do under the Good Friday and other agreements.
It might not be the appropriate time to raise this, but Relatives for Justice represents hundreds of families who are victims of state terrorism. The Taoiseach should meet them to inform himself on all these matters. I understand he is meeting David Cameron later this week. Is it his intention to raise these issues at that meeting? This is a neighbouring state whose Government authorised its forces to kill citizens of this nation and of this State.
As Deputy Adams knows well, there were more than 3,000 deaths during the Troubles in Northern Ireland, some on the Northern side of the Border and some on this side of the Border. As I said in response to the earlier question, I gave a commitment that I would supply the information that is available in Garda files on the Kingsmill murders. That information is being sent to the coroner in Northern Ireland. I hope that is an expression and demonstration of my commitment to dealing with the legacies of the past and that the British Government will now supply any information it can supply in numerous other cases. I hope there will also be other opportunities here to do the same.
I will raise these matters at my meeting with the British Prime Minister. Clearly, there is the issue of welfare reform and the situation so far as the Executive is concerned, the programme on collusion and all the other issues that are relevant to the situation in which we now find ourselves. We will have the debate before the House rises for the summer, and the Whip will make that arrangement. As to whether we divide the time on the day between a debate on Ballymurphy, if we can get agreement on a motion, followed by a wider debate on Northern Ireland issues, or whether all these matters are taken together as part of one debate, we can have that discussion before we decide on the time allocation. The debate will take place before the summer recess.