Vol. 882 No. 3
101. Deputy Michael Moynihan asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources the Government’s position on locating the cables for the North-South interconnector underground; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23246/15]
I wish to ask the Minister his position on locating the cables for the North-South interconnector underground and if he will make a statement on the matter.
In January 2014, an independent expert panel was established to oversee the integrity of the process being undertaken by EirGrid to report on comprehensive, route-specific studies of overhead and underground options for both the Grid Link and Grid West projects. While the North-South transmission line project is outside the panel's terms of reference, the panel did agree, on foot of a request by my predecessor, to provide an opinion on the compatibility of the methodologies employed on the Grid West and Grid Link projects with what had already been done on the North-South project up to and including 2 May 2014, being the date that the panel decided to examine the North-South project. Having considered and discussed all of the material, the panel issued a statement on 1 July 2014, indicating its unanimous opinion that, in all material respects, what had already been done on the North-South project is compatible with the methodologies being employed on the Grid West and Grid Link projects.
On 27 March last, EirGrid published a discussion paper regarding its new independently peer-reviewed draft development strategy which seeks to achieve an optimal balance between the competing demands of publicly consulting on necessary network development, choosing the best emerging technology options for that development and minimising new build. The draft development strategy found that there remains a clear need for the North-South transmission line and that the existing proposal for a 400 kV overhead line remains the most appropriate solution for the project. I understand that EirGrid lodged the planning application for the project with An Bord Pleanála on 9 June. Accordingly, I do not intend to comment further on the details of that application while the planning process takes its course.
Following submission of any final application to An Bord Pleanála in respect of the EirGrid projects, a further consultative process will be open to interested parties. Section 182A of the Planning and Development Act 2000, as amended, provides for the making of submissions regarding an application for consent with respect to a development comprising electricity transmission infrastructure. A timeframe of not less than six weeks of public consultation is provided for under the section.
Additional information not given on the floor of the House
I understand that in relation to the North-South project, submissions or observations in respect of the application for planning approval may be made to An Bord Pleanála during the ten-week period of statutory public consultation which will commence today.
The chairman of the Commission for Energy Regulation and his colleague from Northern Ireland appeared before the Oireachtas committee this morning. They outlined the importance of the North-South interconnector and the fact of it being of mutual interest for European funding and so forth. They also outlined clearly why the project is so necessary on an all-island basis. In addition, evidence was given by EirGrid to the Oireachtas committee a number of weeks ago that it is possible to put the cables of the North-South interconnector underground. Prior to this we were always informed that it was not feasible and, with respect to engineering, could not be done. On this occasion, however, the representatives admitted that it was possible to put it underground. Given the evidence to the Oireachtas joint committee this morning about the strategic nature of the project and its benefits for all of the island, if it is of such importance it should be put underground. That appears to be the issue for everyone concerned. Why must the people of Monaghan and Meath have these monstrosities forced upon them? The Minister should look at the evidence EirGrid gave to the joint committee, look at the evidence given to the committee this morning and make a decision once and for all to put these cables underground.
Given that the planning process is under way for the North-South project, submissions or observations in respect of the application for planning approval may be made to An Bord Pleanála during the ten-week period of statutory public consultation which begins today. It is open to the Deputy and members of the public to make submissions on that planning application for consideration by An Bord Pleanála. I am not aware of the discussion that took place this morning at the committee but I am aware of some deliberations on this by the committee on a previous occasion, because the Deputy raised it in the House on the previous occasion. I do not wish to trespass into the engineering issues, not being an expert in them, but the question of feasibility, in other words whether it is physically possible to do something, is one issue, and whether it is the correct approach to take is another. It may be possible but it might not necessarily be the optimal approach. I offer that distinction between the two different approaches to the same issue.
EirGrid has admitted that it is feasible from a technical and engineering point of view. It is possible to do it. It had previously bandied about costs that were 30, 20 and three times the overground cost. It is now down to 1.57 times that cost. We should bear in mind the importance of the project and the impact it will have on the people of Meath, Monaghan and Cavan. I realise the project is now before An Bord Pleanála and I do not expect the Minister to comment on the planning issue, but surely to God decisions must be taken at this juncture.
It is incorrect to put the cables overground and correct to put them underground. Surely to God the Government, or a government, is elected to make the correct decisions. What is occurring is almost like building a three-storey monstrosity where a single storey would do.
The proper approach is to put the cables underground. It is wrong to proceed to planning and put the cables overground. They need to be put underground. The Government needs to consider the facts and, having got the advice from the experts, say it is possible to do this and that it is the right thing to do.
EirGrid is the statutory agency with responsibility for this project and the grid across the country. It has made a proposal to the board and set out certain options. It has said the option under discussion is the optimal one and has set out the scientific and other evidence that underlies the conclusion it came to. However, it is now up to An Bord Pleanála. It is open to citizens in the course of the planning process to scrutinise and delve into their various issues and concerns, including the question of whether other options were sufficiently or properly examined.
102. Deputy Michael Colreavy asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources the focus there will be on tackling fuel poverty in the upcoming White Paper on energy. [23467/15]
What focus will be placed on tackling fuel poverty in the upcoming White Paper on energy?
The Government’s strategy on affordable energy highlights how addressing energy poverty is a critical whole-of-government responsibility. To that end, my Department offers energy efficiency upgrades that are free of charge to households that are at risk of energy poverty. I introduced a new scheme in 2014 that requires the main energy suppliers to deliver annual energy efficiency savings, a certain proportion of which must be in the energy poverty sector. Other Departments are also proactive in tackling energy poverty, including the Department of Social Protection, through its income supports for those in energy poverty, and the Department of Environment, Community and Local Government, which offers a range of supports through local authorities.
While energy poverty will of course be an important element of the forthcoming White Paper, there will also be a new Government strategy on affordable energy published in the autumn of this year. This strategy will be informed by the results of the engagement on the consultation paper on affordable energy published earlier this year. The aim of the strategy will be to focus on a small number of high-impact actions. I intend to make progress on those actions over the next three years with a view to tackling energy poverty to maximum effect.
As I noted in the consultation paper on affordable energy, ensuring that there is an adequate level of oversight and accountability will be critical to our efforts in combating energy poverty, and I would welcome engagement with the Oireachtas committees in this regard. I note that the Deputy made a submission on the affordable energy consultation paper and I very much welcome his interest and active engagement.
I thank the Minister. Those of us who are out meeting people know that, in very many circumstances, there are still people who face a choice between heating and eating. The financial supports for energy have not kept pace with the increasing costs of energy. We need to examine further the issues of retrofitting, solar energy panels on houses, building standards and planning controls. Will the Government's strategy on affordable energy take into account the absence of a European focus on energy poverty? There is a considerable focus on energy companies and Government strategy but not so much on energy poverty. We have to come up with a solution whereby the poorest can afford to keep warm.
As I stated, I appreciate the Deputy's interest and insights on this issue. I agree with him that this is an area in which we need to continue with our efforts. We need to increase our efforts in order to have a policy that addresses this undoubted issue. The Deputy mentioned solar panels and retrofitting. There have been initiatives in this regard. I was involved in announcing some community-based initiatives with the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland just last week.
I am interested in the Deputy's point on the absence of a European focus. I have heard him make that point here before. It is, perhaps, a reasonable enough insight. I was at a meeting of energy Ministers last week in Luxembourg where I raised with colleagues this question and the importance of there being an agenda item or focus on energy poverty.
He is right and I appreciate his insights. It is certainly something that is a major priority for me, as will be seen when I publish the affordable energy strategy later in the year.
The point I made about the EU is that we have copious documentation about the wider energy issues, including the press for renewable energies and the policy of reducing CO2 emissions output. Sometimes this can have a cost impact on consumers. We must protect those at risk of fuel poverty in all those discussions. I do not see the same emphasis on the cost poverty element of it. I would like to see as much discussion, debate and decision-making in that area as there are in the other areas, welcome as they are.
I take the point. As we migrate to a decarbonised economy here and elsewhere in Europe, we must always remember that there is a cost associated with these changes. Those costs must be discharged, regardless of whether it is directly from the Exchequer or from the consumer, industry or business. The cost must land somewhere in the system and the economy. The Deputy makes a fair point that there should be protections to ensure those at greatest risk and those who are vulnerable do not have to face a disproportionate cost given too many people struggle with their bills. I take the Deputy's point, which is a good one.
103. Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if he will subsidise the activation and connection of business premises to the metropolitan area network structure where the stand-alone commercial case is insufficient; if so, when he will do so; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23248/15]
Does the Minister agree that there is a case to be made for the State to subsidise the connection for business premises to metropolitan area networks where the commercial case is not there for e-net, which is managing it, and where e-net has, therefore, decided that it will not make the connections?
The State-owned metropolitan area networks, MANs, have played an important role in driving competition in the regions and have facilitated large and small retail service providers operating in a fully liberalised market in providing high-speed broadband services without having to build their own networks. The MANs provide a link between national backhaul networks and the so-called last mile access networks that deliver telecommunications services to citizens and businesses.
The 88 MANs, which cover 94 regional towns and cities, are managed, maintained, marketed and operated under a concession by a management services entity, MSE. The MSE provides fibre-based services and products to licensed telecommunications operators on a wholesale, open access basis. The MSE operates on a commercial basis and the cost of connecting to the MAN must be recovered by the MSE. The MSE works with operators to encourage them to use the MANs to provide downstream services. The decision, however, to avail of the MANs is ultimately based on the operator's own commercial business case.
Under EU state aid rules, the State can intervene only in cases of clear market failure. Any question of subsidising connections to the MANs would come within the area of state aid. The current focus of policy is to deliver high-speed broadband services through a State-led intervention in the broadband market where market failure has been demonstrated. The proposed intervention will not be targeted at any individual operator or infrastructure. Instead, minimum service standards will be determined and operators such as e-net may bid to provide the infrastructure to deliver those services.
The mapping exercise under the national broadband plan shows that all MANs towns will have access to commercial high-speed broadband by the end of 2016. In this regard, under EU state aid rules, the State cannot further subsidise services in these areas. While take-up of the MANs by service providers was slow in the initial stages in part because the MANs were ahead of their time, the MSE has worked with service providers to enable them to connect to the MANs in a cost-effective manner and take-up has improved significantly over recent years.
Additional information not given on the floor of the House
The number of connections to the MANs has more than doubled in recent years and more than 60 service providers are using the MANs infrastructure. It is estimated that in excess of 600,000 individuals and business users currently benefit from the MANs infrastructure. These end customers include industrial estates, multinationals, SMEs, State entities and educational institutions, as well as fixed and mobile customers outside Dublin.
While two of the 88 MANs - Banagher and Knock – are not currently in use, they are available and ready to meet demand for services as they arise. Demand for bandwidth continues to increase exponentially with the development of the digital economy, and this increase is expected to continue. As service providers bring optical fibre closer to their end users to meet this demand, the MAN networks are well-placed to serve the needs of service providers and their end users throughout their regional footprint for the foreseeable future.
The State paid a lot of money a few years ago to put these fibre loops in the ground and then passed over management to connect them to a commercial entity called e-net. E-net's position is that if it can make money out of connecting them, it will do so but if it cannot make money out of connecting them, it will not do so. There is a lot of fibre in the ground that e-net has said it will not connect up because it will not make any money out of it. Two of them are in Wicklow but they are throughout the country. There is a loop in the Kilcoole-Newtownmountkennedy-Greystones area and one in Blessington. Businesses are screaming out for broadband connectivity and fibre connectivity. The State has put public money into putting this fibre outside the premises.
Now, however, a commercial entity is stating it is not making any money out of doing the final bit of the connection. The same case for using State money to put the fibre in the ground applies to connecting the fibre to businesses. There are going to be several places where the national broadband plan will not supersede this. I ask the Minister to go back and take a look at the logic of the State paying money to put fibre in the ground. It is insufficient for the State to take a hands-off approach by saying if e-net can make money out of it, fine; if it cannot make money out of it, that is also fine. That is not fine; therefore, I ask the Minister to work with his Department in looking at this issue on a case by case basis and, in particular, at the two cases in the area I represent. What is the commercial gap? In Blessington, for example, it may be €10,000, in which case it should be provided immediately.
There are constraints on State intervention and in funding or subsidising activity other than in circumstances where there is clear market failure, as the Deputy is well aware. That said, he raises an interesting issue about infrastructure that is already in place and asks if it is being used in the way intended for which funding was provided. I take his point. As I said in my introductory remarks, from what I can see, having prepared the response to this question, most, if not all, of the areas covered by the metropolitan area networks, MANs, are in the so-called blue area under the national broadband plan. Therefore, the expectation and the assurance is that the commercial sector will provide high-speed broadband in all of these homes and premises by the end of 2016. In that context, we must decide what is the best and most appropriate intervention. Should we make a new state aid application on the basis of a perceived market failure related to the MANs or should we proceed with the national broadband plan? The Deputy raises a very interesting question and I am very happy to engage with him further on it. I will do as he asks and take a closer look at the issue to which he has referred, particularly as it affects County Wicklow. He makes a fair point and I will be happy to discuss it further with him on another occasion.
104. Deputy Michael Moynihan asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if he will provide the latest update on the Government’s application to the Commission for State aid approval of the national broadband plan, since the last online departmental update was published on the issue; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22974/15]
I ask the Minister to provide the latest update on the Government’s application to the European Commission for State aid approval of the national broadband plan since the last online departmental update was published on the issue.
The national broadband plan aims to ensure every citizen and business, regardless of location, has access to a high quality, high speed broadband service. In tandem with commercial developments, intensive work is under way in my Department to progress a State-led investment to secure the country-wide introduction of next generation broadband access.
On 24 November last, a public consultation process on a national high speed coverage map, 2016 was launched. The map can be accessed at www.broadband.gov.ie. It allows all members of the public to see whether their premises or home will have access to commercial high speed broadband services by end 2016 or whether they will be included in the Government's proposed intervention. The coverage map was produced following an intensive engagement between my Department and the industry.
The intervention area includes over 700,000 premises. Eircom recently announced an investment that may address a further 300,000 with fibre-to-the-premises technology. My Department will be rigorously examining the assurances from eircom concerning these new plans, which is a requirement for all operators, and will review how this impacts on the proposed intervention area, the so-called amber area..
The publication of the coverage map and consultation are necessary to ensure the State intervention does not compete with commercial high speed broadband services as required under EU State aid guidelines. The publication of the aforementioned map was required under the same guidelines. Formal notification will be made after consultation on the intervention strategy is completed later this year. In the meantime, the Department continues to liaise closely with the EU Directorate General for Competition on a range of issues related to the strategy and we are on target to submit pre-notification to the directorate over the summer period.
Intensive design and planning work is under way in my Department to produce a detailed intervention strategy for the amber area. Following a public consultation process on the draft intervention strategy this summer, I hope to move to the formal procurement phase towards the end of the year in order to select a preferred bidder or bidders. I expect the physical build of the network to begin in late 2016 and it will take between three and five years to fully complete, depending on the details of the bid or bids selected.
The Minister made reference to eircom which he said "may" reach a further 300,000 premises. The issue with regard to the areas not covered by broadband is that officialdom is constantly using terms such as "may" and "might". There is enormous frustration, but I do not propose to discuss that issue in the Chamber today because I have been talking about it ad nauseam for quite some time.
The Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources website states:
The Department has continued its regular engagement with the European Commission throughout May. Further meetings are planned for June, following which, the formal State Aid Pre-Notification is expected to be submitted to DG Competition.
People living in communities without broadband services have looked at every aspect including wireless and tried every way of getting broadband to their home or business. We have all heard anecdotal evidence of people holding the laptop at a different angle and everything else.
The Deputy can come back in.
The statement on the Department's website gives no indication of the urgency needed on the issue.
I thank the Deputy.
While I may be wrong, my information from answers to parliamentary questions this time last year was that by mid-2015 everything would be signed, sealed and delivered and would be before the Commission.
The Deputy can come back in.
Any of the timeline indications I have given to the House have so far been maintained. The Deputy is right in saying that the big hard stops will be the procurement process late in the year, in November and December. The next stage is to bring the intervention strategy to Cabinet, I hope in July, the pre-notification process to DG Competition and then to get on to the procurement application by the end of the year. That is what I said when I came into this office and I am still confident I can achieve that.
People's frustrations are understandable and legitimate, particularly when they can see the services others have near them, perhaps in the next town, and they compare what they could have with what they have. There is an element of me having to say that we ask people to keep faith with this process. It is a very big operation to have an intervention to cover a huge proportion of the land mass of the State in order to deliver high-speed broadband. We can and will do it, but it will take time to do it properly. Hardly a day passes without me having some engagement with senior colleagues in the Department to ensure the process is driving on, and driving on it is.
As somebody said to me at a recent meeting on this, if we had the European Commission and all these procurement rules and regulations back in the 1940s and 1950s, it might have taken a generation to bring electricity to the people. That is the frustration for individuals and businesses.
The Minister mentioned November and December, which is a nine-week period. Is it set in stone that the procurement will be advanced during that period? We are still talking about 2016, 2017 or 2018 probably before these areas are connected to what is essentially a quality of life issue at this point. At various meetings I have outlined what the Minister has told me on the floor of the Dáil. People are asking what we can do to move this on because it is a case of live horse and get grass. Why can we not get the Commission to look at the frustrations? In addition to the broadband issue, there is also the mobile telephone service.
I thank the Deputy.
It was originally mid-2015 and is now November-December. Is that timeline set in stone? Is there any commitment on how long that phase will take?
That is my intention. I can say in good faith to the Deputy that nothing has changed since the last time we had this engagement in the House that would make me believe there would be any issue with November-December. In other words, what I know now, I knew the last time we had this conversation here. We are on course to get to procurement by the end of the year, November-December, as I indicated some months ago.
I recently looked at some state-aid notifications and they may be of some interest to the Deputy. For example, a Danish state-aid application in June 2012 took five months to approve. An Italian one in June 2012 took six months. A British one in the same month took ten months.
A French one in July 2010 took 15 months. Another Danish one in February 2010 took five months. A Polish one in July 2011 took four months and a German one in July 2011 also took four months. My hope is that the Irish application will be processed within a few months. One never knows when submitting an application to the Commission exactly when one is likely to get a response. If the work is done in advance, including the prenotification process by way of attendance at the early meetings to pre-notify of what can be expected, which is what we propose to do over the next couple of months, it makes it much easier to get the final application through quickly.
Has the issue been raised at the Council of Ministers meeting?
Is the Deputy referring to this particular project?
No, it would not.
105. Deputy Michael Colreavy asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if he will provide an update on the workings of the Post Office network business development group and when a report on its findings will be available. [23468/15]
As this question, which seeks an update from the Minister on the workings of the Post Office network business development group and when its report will be available, was submitted prior to publication of the report this morning I am sure the Minister's response will focus more on the findings of the report than on when it will be available.
Postal services play an important communications role, serving the needs of domestic and business customers alike. However, the postal sector is undergoing systemic change with migration towards electronic communications, resulting in significant core mail volume decline year-on-year. It is Government policy that An Post remain a strong and viable company, in a position to provide a high quality postal service and maintain a nationwide customer focused network of post offices in the community. The post office network has many strengths and can play an important role in the communications sector into the future. For example, it has the largest retail network in the country and was fully computerised some years ago. As a result, it can fill a vital role in the nationwide provision of over-the-counter services to the public, State services and other financial and commercial transactions.
In recognition of the changing commercial environment, I established the Post Office network business development group in January of this year to examine the potential from existing and new Government and commercial business that could be transacted through the post office network, as well as identifying new business opportunities for the network. I am firmly of the opinion that the work of the group is key to supporting the future sustainability of the network, which point I made to the postmasters at their annual meeting on 3 May last. The initial report of the group, published today, will now be opened up to consultation, the results of which will contribute to the final report in due course.
I envisage a strong future for the post office network, through utilisation of its existing strengths to remain a significant player in the provision of government, financial and other services.
I look forward to reading the report in detail. I understand that all Departments were party to the Post Office network business development group, including and, perhaps primarily, the Department of Social Protection. I have received correspondence from various post offices, the most recent from the post office in beautiful Easkey, County Sligo, which is on the Atlantic coast. The correspondence included a form issued by the Department of Social Protection, which states:
The Department recommends direct payment to your current, deposit or savings account in a financial institution. This is the best payment option for you, as you can receive your payment at a time and place that suits you. The account must be in your name or jointly held by you.
That is active encouragement of people to move from the post offices to one of the banks, which works directly against what should have been the objective of the working group.
I understand that the Department of Social Protection recently amended its old age pension application forms to reorder the list of payment options available to new beneficiaries, putting EFT payment first and relegating payment via the post office second. This is because electronic payment is often more convenient for recipients, as well as being cheaper for the Department to process. I understand that the revised form was sent to An Post for distribution at post offices and that this is a requirement under its contract with the Department of Social Protection. I further understand that this has attracted criticism from the Irish Postmasters Union. The form is for use by new recipients only so that the impact will not be significant, at least not initially given that the majority of new benefit recipients choose to receive their payments via EFT through the banking system.
I am advised that this move by the Department of Social Protection is in line with its move towards electronic payments, as there is a significant cost saving associated with such payments relative to over-the-counter cash transactions.
The Department of Social Protection payments constitute up to one third of the business of post offices and without that business, post offices will close. If people are not going in to do business, they will close. Did the development group consider the possibility of EFT capability within the post office network? I agree that we cannot be like Canute in holding back the tide with a rake. However, we must support this accessible network in delivering a public service. It does more than deliver post. It is a network of accessible offices in prime position to provide public, commercial and semi-commercial services, but it needs to be developed if it is to do this. Are we looking at ways and means of ensuring post offices within the network can carry out EFT transactions in the short to medium term?
That is exactly one of the things we need to do and it is uppermost in our minds. The shift towards electronic payments, as recognised by the IPU, needs to be made to enable the post office network to compete with the banks and in order that the post office network can be as good in transacting this business as any other outlet. The Deputy is right in that regard. This illustrates the importance of the business development group and its interim report which was published today. Among the areas outlined in the report in terms of potential include over-the-counter transaction services for new products such as BillPay on behalf of various organisations and tax payment services for the local property tax on behalf of the Revenue Commissioners. New services for Departments could also be provided such as client identity authentication services, back office and outsourcing services such as those provided by An Post for the Revenue Commissioners, as well as banking and other financial services such as those provided by An Post on behalf of AIB. We want to ensure An Post can provide these services in an efficient way and in the way people nowadays want to avail of them.
