Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 15 Jul 2015

Vol. 887 No. 2

Order of Business

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take No. 15a, motion re events at Ballymurphy in 1971 and legacy issues; No. 43, statements on Northern Ireland; No. 41, Climate Action and Low Carbon Development Bill 2015 - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages, to adjourn at 7 p.m. if not previously concluded; No. 42, Children (Amendment) Bill 2015 [Seanad] - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; and No. 1, Petroleum (Exploration and Extraction) Safety Bill 2015, [Seanad] - Second and Subsequent Stages.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that (1) the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. and shall adjourn on the conclusion of Private Members' business; which shall be No. 198, motion re social services and support (resumed), which shall take place not later than 9.30 p.m. or, in the event that a division is in progress at that time, immediately thereafter and shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 90 minutes; (2) following the Order of Business, the sitting shall stand suspended until 2 p.m. and Topical Issues shall take place on the conclusion of No. 43; (3) the proceedings in respect of No. 15a shall be taken at 2 p.m. and shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after one hour and 20 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the speeches of the Taoiseach, Tánaiste and leaders of Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, or a person nominated in their stead, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case, and such Members may share their time; and (ii) a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply that shall not exceed five minutes; (4) the proceedings in respect of No. 43, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion after two hours and the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the statements of the Taoiseach, Tánaiste and leaders of Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, or a person nominated in their stead, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case, and such Members may share their time; (ii) the statements of a Minister or Minister of State and the main spokespersons for Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed ten minutes in each case, and such Members may share their time; and (iii) a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply that shall not exceed five minutes; (5) the Report and Final Stages of No. 42 shall be taken tonight and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 8 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in respect of amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs; and (6) the Second and Subsequent Stages of No. 1 shall be taken tonight and shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 90 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the proceedings on Second Stage shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 65 minutes; the opening speeches of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case, and such Members may share their time; and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply that shall not exceed five minutes; and (ii) the proceedings on the Committee and Remaining Stages shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 25 minutes by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in respect of amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources.

Tomorrow's business after Oral Questions shall be No. 44, Civil Debt (Procedures) Bill 2015 - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; and No. 1a, Industrial Relations (Amendment) Bill 2015 - amendments from the Seanad.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are six proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with the late sitting agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with the suspension of sitting and timing of Topical Issues agreed to?

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

Not agreed. A Cheann Comhairle, how could we possibly take an hour-long break after the Order of Business and-----

An Ceann Comhairle

We have staff working here. That is why.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

Okay. I am making a proposal-----

An Ceann Comhairle

We are sitting for more than 13 hours. The staff are entitled to a break, in case the Deputy did not realise.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

It is on the agenda, if the Ceann Comhairle does not mind me speaking on it. Otherwise, it should not be on the agenda.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am answering the Deputy's question.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

Okay. I would like to speak on this proposal on the Order of Business. It is clear that one of the most important legislative measures the Government has thrown its weight behind is that of water charges.

An Ceann Comhairle

No, I am sorry. The Deputy can resume her seat. This is a matter-----

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

Today, the figures reveal that 57% of households have not paid.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with the suspension of sitting and the timing of Topical Issues agreed to?

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

I would like to make a proposal, that we do not-----

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy cannot make a proposal on the Order of Business.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

Is the Ceann Comhairle going to allow me to speak?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy can object to the suspension of sitting and timing of Topical Issues, full stop.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

I would like to make a proposal that we not take an hour-long break and that we have a discussion on the massive boycott of water charges that is taking place.

Deputy Paul Kehoe

Her microphone should be turned off.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

This morning, the Minister stated that-----

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach to reply, thank you.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

-----he was beyond satisfied with the payment rate.

Deputy Marcella Corcoran Kennedy

What about the rights of the staff?

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

More than half the people have boycotted the water charges and rejected this Government's proposal.

An Ceann Comhairle

Will the Deputy please resume her seat?

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

I am allowed a minute or two to explain.

An Ceann Comhairle

No, you are not.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

I am.

An Ceann Comhairle

Will you resume your seat?

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

A Cheann Comhairle, I think you will find that-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you. Will you resume your seat?

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

----under Standing Orders, I am allowed to put my case to speak on the Order of Business.

An Ceann Comhairle

Yes, in respect of-----

Deputy James Bannon

Even Deputy Coppinger's co-pilot is embarrassed.

An Ceann Comhairle

-----the proposal on the suspension of sitting and timing of Topical Issues.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

Yes, and I am not agreeing to it.

An Ceann Comhairle

You are not agreeing. You have made your point.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

I would like you to let me get a full sentence out, please, if you would not mind.

An Ceann Comhairle

You have made your point that there should be no suspension of the proceedings.

The Deputy has made her point. I call the Taoiseach.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

I have not made my point because the Ceann Comhairle kept interrupting me.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am not interrupting. I am telling the Deputy that she cannot wander onto talking about water charges.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

I can, actually.

An Ceann Comhairle

No, the Deputy cannot.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

I am allowed to make a point on the Order of Business.

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask the Deputy to resume her seat so that the Taoiseach can reply. We are moving on.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

In that case, I will jump up on the next item.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy will not jump up. She will jump up when she is called. There is order in this Chamber, in case the Deputy does not realise it.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

I am trying to speak but the Ceann Comhairle keeps cutting across me.

The Taoiseach

The procedure every Wednesday is for a sos for one hour. The people who work here and service this House are entitled to a break. It is standard procedure and I reject the assertion made by Deputy Coppinger. The staff who service the Houses of the Oireachtas are entitled to their break like everybody else.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

The Taoiseach does not care about the staff. The Taoiseach is keeping the staff here until midnight tonight.

Question: "That the proposal for dealing with the suspension of the sitting and the timing of Topical Issues be agreed to", put and declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with 15a, motion re events at Ballymurphy in 1971 and legacy issues agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for No. 43, statements on Northern Ireland agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 42, Children (Amendment) Bill 2015 - Report and Final Stages agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 1, Petroleum (Exploration and Extraction) Safety Bill 2015 - Second and Remaining Stages agreed to?

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

Not agreed. I oppose the guillotine of all Stages of the Petroleum (Exploration and Extraction) Safety Bill 2015. This Bill transposes EU Directive 2013/30/EU which was published as far back as June 2013 yet, two years later, the Government is only now putting forward the legislation to deal with it. It is very worrying that it has taken so long for the Government to implement a directive that regulates potentially hazardous activity in petroleum exploration and extraction. Indeed, the State's past handling of the Corrib gas project in Mayo, Taoiseach, is a reminder of why adequate time should be made available to debate this legislation and to reflect on the directive. It is guillotine time of the year but we object, as ever, to rushing legislation such as this through the House. It is not as if we have not had plenty of sitting days if we had only organised them in a more productive fashion. We are at the finishing line and rushing things in this way is not a good way to proceed.

The Taoiseach

Deputy McDonald is entitled to make her point. The purpose of the Bill is to transpose the offshore safety directive 2013/30 which follows the European Commission's review of offshore oil and gas operations in Europe, which in turn was prompted by the Deepwater Horizon accident in the Gulf of Mexico in April 2010. Our principal safety legislation is the Petroleum Exploration and Extraction Safety Act 2010. As this Act is broadly consistent with the directive, the proposed approach to transposition in Ireland is to amend the existing statutory framework by means of primary legislation and to integrate the directive requirements with the Commission for Energy Regulation and the existing petroleum safety framework. If we do not transpose this by the deadline of 19 July we would be out of line with almost all EU member states who have developed an offshore oil and gas sector as most of them expect to meet the transposition deadline.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

Why did the Government not do this more quickly?

The Taoiseach

It would negatively impact on Ireland's ability to engage with the European Commission over the coming months in the debate on how the important matter of financial liability for environmental damage will be addressed by regulators and it would send a negative signal to industry in advance of the 2015 Atlantic licensing round which closes for application on 16 September.

Following transposition of the directive the Commission for Energy Regulation will have to revise its existing petroleum framework so that it can operate on the basis of the directive from 19 July 2016. The regulator will need to publish proposals once the directive is transposed and allow time for consultation with the industry and other interested bodies. Slippage in its transposition will limit time for that consultation, which is very important.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

The Taoiseach refers to slippage in transposition after a delay of two years.

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with No. 1 be agreed to."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 77; Níl, 22.

Tá

• Aylward, Bobby.
• Bannon, James.
• Barry, Tom.
• Browne, John.
• Butler, Ray.
• Buttimer, Jerry.
• Byrne, Catherine.
• Byrne, Eric.
• Cannon, Ciarán.
• Carey, Joe.
• Coffey, Paudie.
• Conaghan, Michael.
• Connaughton, Paul J.
• Coonan, Noel.
• Corcoran Kennedy, Marcella.
• Costello, Joe.
• Coveney, Simon.
• Cowen, Barry.
• Creed, Michael.
• Deasy, John.
• Deenihan, Jimmy.
• Deering, Pat.
• Donohoe, Paschal.
• Dooley, Timmy.
• Dowds, Robert.
• Doyle, Andrew.
• Durkan, Bernard J.
• English, Damien.
• Feighan, Frank.
• Ferris, Anne.
• Fitzpatrick, Peter.
• Flanagan, Charles.
• Gilmore, Eamon.
• Griffin, Brendan.
• Harrington, Noel.
• Heydon, Martin.
• Howlin, Brendan.
• Keating, Derek.
• Keaveney, Colm.
• Kehoe, Paul.
• Kelly, Alan.
• Kenny, Enda.
• Kenny, Seán.
• Kyne, Seán.
• Lawlor, Anthony.
• Lowry, Michael.
• McCarthy, Michael.
• McConalogue, Charlie.
• McFadden, Gabrielle.
• McGuinness, John.
• McHugh, Joe.
• McLoughlin, Tony.
• McNamara, Michael.
• Martin, Micheál.
• Mitchell O'Connor, Mary.
• Mulherin, Michelle.
• Murphy, Dara.
• Naughten, Denis.
• Neville, Dan.
• Nolan, Derek.
• Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
• O'Dea, Willie.
• O'Mahony, John.
• O'Sullivan, Jan.
• Penrose, Willie.
• Quinn, Ruairí.
• Rabbitte, Pat.
• Reilly, James.
• Ryan, Brendan.
• Smith, Brendan.
• Spring, Arthur.
• Stanton, David.
• Troy, Robert.
• Tuffy, Joanna.
• Twomey, Liam.
• Wall, Jack.
• Walsh, Brian.

Níl

• Broughan, Thomas P.
• Collins, Joan.
• Coppinger, Ruth.
• Creighton, Lucinda.
• Ellis, Dessie.
• Ferris, Martin.
• Flanagan, Terence.
• Fleming, Tom.
• Halligan, John.
• Healy-Rae, Michael.
• McDonald, Mary Lou.
• McGrath, Finian.
• McGrath, Mattie.
• McLellan, Sandra.
• Mathews, Peter.
• Murphy, Paul.
• Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
• Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
• O'Brien, Jonathan.
• O'Sullivan, Maureen.
• Stanley, Brian.
• Tóibín, Peadar.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Paul Kehoe and Robert Dowds; Níl, Deputies Mary Lou McDonald and Sandra McLellan.

Question declared carried.

Deputy Micheál Martin

I am actually a great fan of fiction.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

Deputy Martin is living it.

Deputy Micheál Martin

This brings me back to the programme for Government time and again. I want to clarify the position of one legislative proposal that the Government had put forward and promised.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

The Fianna Fáil programme was fiction as well.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy without interruption, please. Thank you.

Deputy Willie O'Dea

Deputy Ó Snodaigh can talk. He says Deputy Gerry Adams was never in the IRA.

An Ceann Comhairle

Hold on a second. Deputy Ó Snodaigh, please stay quiet. Thank you. There are only three minutes left.

Deputy Micheál Martin

The programme for Government states that the legislative basis for universal health insurance will be established by the universal health insurance Act. Can the Taoiseach indicate when we can expect that universal health insurance Act? The programme also stated:

In the first term of this Government, the foundations will be laid for the introduction of Universal Hospital Care Insurance:

- The legislative basis for UHI will be enacted.

- Public hospitals will be given autonomy from the HSE.

- The HSE’s function of purchasing care for uninsured patients will be given to a Hospital Care Purchase Agency which will combine with the National Treatment Purchase Fund to purchase care for the uninsured over this transition period.

I was listening to the Minister for Health, Deputy Varadkar, at the weekend. He indicated that these are no longer legislative priorities of the Government. He also said that the Government and the party he is a member of need to be more honest with the electorate before elections in respect of health policy. Can the Taoiseach confirm whether the legislative basis for UHI will be established by the universal health insurance Act? Will the legislation for the three areas I outlined relating to public hospitals getting autonomy from the HSE come before the House? When can we expect it? When can we expect the legislation governing the establishment of the hospital care purchasing agency that was to be established?

There is a commitment in the programme for Government to legislate for those in long-term illness to receive medical cards. I understand this is not now proceeding. The bottom line is that thousands of people, especially elderly people, some with terminal illnesses such as cancer, are still being refused their medical cards. The matter has been publicly reported on this morning and Deputy Moynihan has spoken of a horrendous and heart-rending case. When can we expect legislation to restore the medical card - I am not referring to the general practitioner visit card but the medical card - to the over 70s?

The commitment in the programme for Government to the elderly refers to long-term care places and how additional funding will be provided, particularly in terms of caring for people in the community and the capital plan that the Government had outlined. There is a substantial number of district hospitals throughout the country. The Health Information and Quality Authority has put out major warnings pertaining to their continuation and sustainability without capital investment. When can we expect the Government to make a decision in respect of that issue? When can we expect a review of the fair deal?

Finally, in respect of NAMA-----

Deputy Jonathan O'Brien

Come on.

Deputy Micheál Martin

I did not call a vote.

Deputy Jonathan O'Brien

I do not care.

Deputy Micheál Martin

I did not waste 16 minutes. I did not call the vote. I want to raise these issues. They are important. If Sinn Féin had allowed 20 minutes everyone would have got in.

Deputy Peter Fitzpatrick

We are here too. He is taking time from us as well.

Deputy Micheál Martin

In respect of NAMA, the programme for Government states that there would be transparency and that the Government would bring transparency to the operation of NAMA.

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you. Your time is up.

Deputy Micheál Martin

I mentioned yesterday that €229,000 was paid by NAMA to go to the Supreme Court. Will the Taoiseach bring that transparency to NAMA?

An Ceann Comhairle

I call on the Taoiseach to come in quickly because the time is up.

The Taoiseach

In respect of the last question, obviously the Government does not dictate to NAMA what legal cases might arise or how NAMA might contest any legal cases. The case Deputy Martin mentioned went to the Supreme Court and NAMA lost. Obviously the Chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts is fully entitled to have representatives of NAMA before that committee and bring the transparency, which Deputy Martin rightly mentioned, so that everyone knows exactly what the issues were and how those costs arose.

Deputy Martin mentioned a range of health area legislation. I will send Deputy Martin details of the progress made. I have already indicated that UHI will not be introduced in the lifetime of this Government. It has been very much delayed and while Deputy Martin refers to fiction in the programme for Government, he should also refer to fact. A considerable number of facts required us to re-draft the priorities of the programme for Government last year and we are following through on those. I will advise Deputy Martin of the progress made in respect of the five or six tranches of legislation to which he referred.

Deputy Micheál Martin

There is a good deal of fiction there as well.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am afraid time is up. There is nothing I can do about it.