Before we commence, I must call on the Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach, Deputy Paul Kehoe, who I understand wishes to make a proposal relating to the sitting and business of the Dáil.
Sittings and Business of Dáil: Motion
Not agreed.
It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that:
(1) the following arrangements shall apply in relation to the sittings and business of the Dáil today:
(a) the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. and shall adjourn on the adjournment of Private Members' business;
(b) there shall be no Order of Business within the meaning of Standing Order 26;
(c) Oral Questions to the Taoiseach and private notice Questions shall not be taken;
(d) matters may not be raised under the provisions of Standing Order 32 (adjournment on specific and important matter of public interest);
(e) the sitting shall now suspend until 2.30 p.m., and the business to be transacted then shall be the motion of confidence in the Taoiseach, the Attorney General and the Government, which shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after three hours and the following arrangements shall apply:
(i) the speeches of the Taoiseach, Tánaiste and of the leaders of Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, or persons nominated in their stead, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case, and such Members may share their time;
(ii) the speech of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes in each case, and such Members may share their time; and
(iii) a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed five minutes;
(f) the motion re parliamentary questions rota change shall be taken on the conclusion of the motion of confidence;
(g) Oral Questions to the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources shall be taken on the conclusion of the motion re parliamentary questions rota change;
(h) Topical Issues shall be taken on the conclusion of Oral Questions, followed immediately by Leaders' Questions;
(i) Private Members' business, which shall be motion re health service funding, shall be taken on the conclusion of Leaders' Questions and shall adjourn after 90 minutes; and
(2) the business to be taken tomorrow after Oral Questions shall be Marriage Bill 2015 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage; Public Transport Bill 2015 - Second Stage (resumed); and Garda Síochána (Policing Authority and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2015 [Seanad] - Second Stage.
Is the proposal agreed?
Not agreed. Could I ask the Government Whip where the Taoiseach is? Surely at the commencement of the business of the House he should be proposing this motion, a motion that again reveals the utter contempt that the Government has for the Dáil and its proceedings. Is this going to be the pattern for the rest of this Dáil, suppressing legitimate debate and basic accountability? Why is there no normal Order of Business today? Why can we not have an Order of Business? Why must Leaders' Questions be pushed out to 7.35 p.m., with the Topical Issue debate and Oral Questions taken before them? Why must the Taoiseach's questions be suspended?
There is absolutely no accountability whatsoever today. There is no reason not to have a normal Order of Business, Taoiseach's questions and Leaders' Questions immediately after the debate on the confidence motion. Why can the Taoiseach not be here at 5.30 p.m. to answer questions that the leaders of other political parties, including me, put to him? On the very first day back for the Dáil, Leaders' Questions are being buried beyond the media cycle at approximately 7.50 p.m. with no rational explanation.
We have written to the Government Whip, but he has not responded or contacted our Whip in any substantive way. It is contemptuous. Why-----
Deputy Martin would know all about that.
It is outrageous.
These are basic questions, and I cannot understand for the life of me why the Government is so intent on shutting down the Dáil today.
That is incorrect.
It is not.
It is.
Deputy, please.
There is no Order of Business. We are being asked to vote-----
Deputy Carey-----
(Interruptions).
Sorry, Deputies.
-----that there should be no Order of Business within the meaning of Standing Order 26. Can someone give me a rational explanation as to why?
A Deputy
He said "rational."
Why is it that Leaders' Questions are being put back? Why is it that Oral Questions to the Taoiseach and Private Notice Questions are not being taken?
Speak on the motion.
Anything that is potentially awkward for the Government is being put to one side and shelved. It really speaks to the intent of the Government in this Dáil to keep running, to keep ducking and diving and avoiding the hard questions.
That is rich, coming from Deputy Martin.
(Interruptions).
Deputies, please.
I do not know why the Deputies opposite are laughing, because that is what the Ministers have leaked to the media. They have said that their strategy is to hide the Taoiseach as often as they possibly can.
They are hiding him well today.
That is what we are reading.
(Interruptions).
We have been reading that for the last number of weeks - that they reduce-----
We-----
Order, please.
In fairness-----
(Interruptions).
-----I will say that the honourable exception to that rule is the Government Whip himself, who believes that the Taoiseach will rule forever and he will be looked after later.
(Interruptions).
I put it to the Whip-----
Where is Deputy John McGuinness today?
Order, please.
Why is he not sitting beside Deputy Martin?
-----that we are not going to accept this attitude and-----
(Interruptions).
Please, could we have one voice?
-----contempt that the Government holds for the House-----
This is slapstick.
-----and the arrogance that is in the Government. I heard it from the Minister, Deputy Howlin, this morning: "We do not need to be answering questions about this. Move on quickly," and so on.
I said no such thing.
Yes, you did.
I said no such thing.
The bottom line is that 18 months ago on Leaders' Questions-----
Tell the truth for once.
-----when I asked the Taoiseach about why a Secretary General was sent out to the former Garda Commissioner, the Taoiseach's stock response was that the Government had appointed a commission of investigation and that he could not answer any question until that had been brought to a conclusion.
Did Deputy Martin not like the results?
The Taoiseach can answer that.
Again, there are to be no questions on that today. He will answer no questions. The only thing he did was to appear on "Six One News"-----
Break up what you ask-----
-----ten minutes after the 300-odd pages were disseminated.
Where was Deputy Martin?
That is all he did. He has run from this report ever since. By the way, the whole objective is to avoid being questioned on it. The Labour Party is so vulnerable and exposed by the Attorney General's behaviour in this scenario that it is ponying up support for the Taoiseach in a quid pro quo operation.
It is outrageous.
A Deputy
Members are clutching at straws.
"Outrageous" is what is happening here.
Does the Tánaiste-----
(Interruptions).
It is cynicism at its worst and it is contemptuous.
I call Deputy Gerry Adams. Could we have order please?
We have read the report, unlike the Deputy's colleagues.
Order, please.
We have read the report, unlike the Deputy's colleagues.
I wish to repeat, if I may, what the Chief Whip read out to Members: "there shall be no Order of Business... Oral Questions to the Taoiseach and private notice Questions shall not be taken... matters may not be raised under the provisions of Standing Order 32... on specific and important matters of public interest." This is what the Chief Whip is asking Members to support-----
Muzzling Parliament.
-----namely, they should not do business here today. Also, Members were only handed this, or I was anyway, ten minutes before coming to the Chamber. The decision by the Government to introduce a motion of confidence in the Taoiseach is no great surprise. While that is fair enough, if Members have learned anything on these benches over the past four years it is about the arrogance and disrespect with which the Government treats the Oireachtas and the Dáil, in particular. The absence of the Taoiseach today is yet one more example of that. The motion of confidence was predictable but the decision to abandon Taoiseach's questions was not. Members should remember it has been two months since the Dáil met and consequently they should have been given an opportunity to discuss issues of importance. There is an ongoing crisis in the North at present. I am sorry, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, but could I have the Chief Whip's attention?
Members cannot debate that issue in the Chamber. There is a deep-rooted problem. Gabh mo leithscéal a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, I am addressing my remarks through you to the Government-----
Thank you.
-----to the Chief Whip. The Chief Whip is engaged in conversation with Ministers and is not listening to what I am trying to articulate.
I am listening.
Continue, Deputy.
There is a deep problem-----
(Interruptions).
Could we have order please?
There is a deep problem with Northern Ireland.
There is a deep problem. There is a deep problem about homelessness and Members do not have the opportunity to discuss it. Every day, Members read about the tens of thousands of refugees in coffin ships who are dying by the scores. One hears it on the news every evening but Members have no opportunity to discuss it.
Do it tomorrow.
Moreover, they have no opportunity to discuss the Fennelly report. Let me state again for the record that I would have had no objections, had the Taoiseach gone to the Cabinet and asked for majority support for the resignation of the Garda Commissioner. That would have been the appropriate and proper thing to do. However, he did not do that. He did not give the Garda Commissioner the opportunity to give his side of the story. He did not consult properly with the Minister for Justice and Equality. He did not do it the straight way; he did it in another way and now he has denied all of that. The Taoiseach has yet to even acknowledge that he was sent for by the Fennelly commission more than once.
It is not all about denying.
The media management that rolled out on the day the interim report was given to the Government or when it was published at least was a class act. The Taoiseach put himself forward to answer questions on the report that no one except him had read.
This is a debate.
None of the journalists who questioned him that evening had even read the report so he got his spin in first. The Dáil has been denied the opportunity to discuss that.
Members are debating a procedural motion.
We now are on the last legs of the Government.
Get to the point.
Deputies may have confidence; I do not know whether that is true. They might vote for confidence, as what can they do? They either hang together or hang separately.
Do not go there.
However, the straight thing to do-----
Or face a court martial.
(Interruptions).
However, the straight thing to do, and the Minister, Deputy Howlin, should show some leadership in this regard, is call the election-----
Hear, hear.
-----go to the polls and give the people their say because that at least will ensure all these issues will be debated. They may not be debated in here but they will be debated outside this Chamber where people meet and where they will decide on the next Government.
Thank you. I call Deputy Joe Higgins.
I move amendment No. 1:
That the debate continue into tomorrow; and that the time be extended by at least another three hours, and preferably more than that.
I am opposing the proposal because three hours is pathetically inadequate to deal with the range of substantial issues and to call the Government to account on some of the most serious issues that ever have faced Irish society.
In terms of time, only Fianna Fáil is to have a second speaking slot. Even Sinn Féin and the Technical Group are cut off from a second slot under the proposal from the Chief Whip.
That is right.
Members of the Technical Group are seriously disadvantaged, but other Members of the Dáil in general are also disadvantaged. All Members of the Dáil, Government and Opposition, should have the opportunity, four and a half years into the Government's term, to give their verdict, on reflection, in relation to the critical issues facing us. Therefore, I propose that the debate continue into tomorrow. It should be extended by at least another three hours, and preferably more than that.
We have a Government that is presiding over the worst homelessness crisis in the history of this State. There are more than a thousand children in hotels, hostels and utterly inappropriate accommodation, now exhibiting all kinds of psychological and emotional ill-effects. There are 130,000 families nationally on the local authority waiting list. Even in the dismal 1970s, right-wing Governments built up to 8,500 local authority houses per year to meet a crisis, as compared with a few hundred per year at present. We have a Government that seems totally oblivious to this. We have a mass revolt of our people against the latest infliction of austerity in the form of water charges, with a huge majority saying clearly to the Government that they will not pay and that they want that charge abolished, but the Government will not listen. These are only some of the issues that Members of this Dáil need time to reflect on. There are other serious issues, as well as the economic diagnosis. I have made a serious diagnosis: I believe the Labour Party is suffering from an acute case of mass delusional psychosis in a political sense.
(Interruptions).
Its senior leaders actually think that they are socialists-----
What does Deputy Paul Murphy think?
-----while implementing the most savage austerity in the history of this State for the past four years. I will tell you, Bertie Ahern's conversion to socialism had far more credibility than the recent claim made by Deputy Quinn.
(Interruptions).
I am sure the Chief Whip is no historian, but he could tell his colleagues in the Labour Party that James Connolly's view on socialism was to elevate the welfare of working people and the poor and not to enrich bankers and bondholders at their expense, which is what this Government has done for the past four and a half years.
Hear, hear.
The ungrateful people of Dublin 4-----
We need time to discuss these serious issues and, therefore, I formally propose an extension of the debate.
Hear, hear.
It has always been the case in this House that a motion of confidence takes precedence over any other business, as happened in September 2007, June 2009, June 2010 and December 2014. On three of those occasions, Deputy Martin was part of the Government in respect of which a motion of confidence took place. Those confidence motions that took precedence over any other business also took place on Tuesdays.
Does that make it right?
Order, please.
I intend to proceed as per the Order of Business outlined earlier.
I will now put the question.
On a point of order-----
I must also put the question on Deputy Higgins's amendment.
Before you put the amendment, a Cheann Comhairle, I would like to put a number of questions to the Chief Whip. Why is the Tánaiste not fronting this proposition today? The Taoiseach is not here. Normally, when the Taoiseach is not here, the Tánaiste steps in.
Any Member can propose a motion.
Is the Tánaiste acquiescing in these jackboot tactics?
What I would say to the Whip is that no one has an issue-----
That is not important.
(Interruptions).
I put it to the Government Whip-----
(Interruptions).
-----and to the Tánaiste that no one has an issue-----
(Interruptions).
They are shouting down people now.
Free speech, now. Come on.
Come on, sit down.
No one has an issue with the motion of confidence being the major item today, but we certainly have an issue when the Whip says that there is no Order of Business, that questions to the Taoiseach shall not be taken and that other matters may not be raised.
Chair, put the question.
More crucially, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, with respect, Topical Issues are going before Leaders' Questions and Oral Questions for Ministers are going before Leaders' Questions. Why could the Taoiseach not take Leaders' Questions at 5.30 p.m. today after the motion of confidence?
I think, Deputy, you have raised that.
I did not get any reply to that. The very basic thing the Government Whip should do is reply to us in an open and honest manner. The Tánaiste should do it too because the Tánaiste is the Deputy Head of Government and she sent the Government Whip to do the Government's bidding.
Deputy Martin, that is not a point of order.
It is absolutely contemptuous of the House that, as others have pointed out, there are more "nots" in this notice of motion. You cannot do this and you will not do that. That is now the pattern. The Government wants to shut down this House and avoid any accountability and any questions.
I want finally to say that if the Government-----
Deputy Martin, that is not a point of order.
On a point of order, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle-----
(Interruptions).
If Deputy Buttimer wants order, I would suggest to the Government Whip that he should communicate with the other Whips, and not at 1.40 p.m. or 1.50 p.m., saying here is notice of a motion and here is the programme for legislation, with no other communication with the Whips.
On a point of order-----
Thank you. I am calling you, Deputy Durkan.
It is disgraceful and contemptuous. The Tánaiste does not have the guts to come in and put this motion.
Deputy Martin, thank you. I have to call Deputy Durkan.
She knows how contemptuous this is.
Can I seek clarification on a point of order? Have the Second Stage speeches already commenced or is each of the Opposition and Government speakers going to have a second or third chance? Is that what we are having?
No, it is a point of order and I have ruled it out. I ruled out that as well.
I presume we would all have an opportunity of speaking to a Second Stage-----
A Leas-Cheann Comhairle-----
Deputy Adams, is it a point of order? We are moving on. Deputy Adams, have you a point of order?
I think we should proceed. This is becoming another bout of "Punch and Judy".
Amendment put:
The Dáil divided: Tá, 45; Níl, 83.
Tá
- Adams, Gerry.
- Boyd Barrett, Richard.
- Browne, John.
- Calleary, Dara.
- Collins, Niall.
- Colreavy, Michael.
- Cowen, Barry.
- Crowe, Seán.
- Daly, Clare.
- Doherty, Pearse.
- Donnelly, Stephen S.
- Ellis, Dessie.
- Fitzmaurice, Michael.
- Fleming, Tom.
- Grealish, Noel.
- Halligan, John.
- Healy, Seamus.
- Higgins, Joe.
- Keaveney, Colm.
- Kelleher, Billy.
- Lowry, Michael.
- Mac Lochlainn, Pádraig.
- McConalogue, Charlie.
- McDonald, Mary Lou.
- McGrath, Finian.
- McGrath, Michael.
- McGuinness, John.
- Martin, Micheál.
- Mathews, Peter.
- Moynihan, Michael.
- Murphy, Catherine.
- Murphy, Paul.
- Naughten, Denis.
- Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
- Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
- Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
- O'Brien, Jonathan.
- Pringle, Thomas.
- Ross, Shane.
- Shortall, Róisín.
- Stanley, Brian.
- Timmins, Billy.
- Tóibín, Peadar.
- Troy, Robert.
- Wallace, Mick.
Níl
- Bannon, James.
- Barry, Tom.
- Burton, Joan.
- Butler, Ray.
- Buttimer, Jerry.
- Byrne, Catherine.
- Byrne, Eric.
- Carey, Joe.
- Coffey, Paudie.
- Conlan, Seán
- Collins, Áine.
- Conaghan, Michael.
- Connaughton, Paul J.
- Coonan, Noel.
- Corcoran Kennedy, Marcella.
- Coveney, Simon.
- Creed, Michael.
- Daly, Jim.
- Deasy, John.
- Deenihan, Jimmy.
- Deering, Pat.
- Doherty, Regina.
- Donohoe, Paschal.
- Dowds, Robert.
- Doyle, Andrew.
- Durkan, Bernard J.
- English, Damien.
- Farrell, Alan.
- Feighan, Frank.
- Ferris, Anne.
- Fitzpatrick, Peter.
- Griffin, Brendan.
- Harrington, Noel.
- Harris, Simon.
- Hayes, Tom.
- Heydon, Martin.
- Howlin, Brendan.
- Humphreys, Heather.
- Humphreys, Kevin.
- Keating, Derek.
- Kehoe, Paul.
- Kelly, Alan.
- Kenny, Seán.
- Kyne, Seán.
- Lawlor, Anthony.
- Lyons, John.
- McCarthy, Michael.
- McEntee, Helen.
- McFadden, Gabrielle.
- McHugh, Joe.
- McLoughlin, Tony.
- Mitchell, Olivia.
- Mitchell O'Connor, Mary.
- Mulherin, Michelle.
- Murphy, Dara.
- Murphy, Eoghan.
- Nash, Gerald.
- Neville, Dan.
- Nolan, Derek.
- Noonan, Michael.
- Ó Ríordáin, Aodhán.
- O'Donnell, Kieran.
- O'Donovan, Patrick.
- O'Dowd, Fergus.
- O'Mahony, John.
- O'Reilly, Joe.
- O'Sullivan, Jan.
- O'Sullivan, Maureen.
- Penrose, Willie.
- Phelan, John Paul.
- Quinn, Ruairí.
- Rabbitte, Pat.
- Reilly, James.
- Ring, Michael.
- Ryan, Brendan.
- Shatter, Alan.
- Sherlock, Sean.
- Spring, Arthur.
- Stagg, Emmet.
- Stanton, David.
- Twomey, Liam
- Varadkar, Leo.
- Wall, Jack.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Joe Higgins and Paul Murphy; Níl, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Paul Kehoe.
Amendment declared lost.
Motion, as amended, put and declared carried.