Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 1 Oct 2015

Vol. 891 No. 2

Order of Business

The Tánaiste

It is proposed to take No. 14, proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Exchange of Information Relating to Tax Matters (Argentine Republic) Order 2015 (back from committee); No. 15, proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Double Taxation Relief (Taxes on Income) (Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia) Order 2015 (back from committee); No. 16, proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Double Taxation Relief (Taxes on Income) (Pakistan) Order 2015 (back from committee); No. 17, proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Double Taxation Relief (Taxes on Income and Capital Gains) (Republic of Zambia) Order 2015 (back from committee); No. 18, proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Exchange of Information Relating to Tax Matters (Commonwealth of The Bahamas) Order 2015 (back from committee); No. 19, proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Double Taxation Relief (Taxes on Income and on Capital) (Federal Republic of Germany) Order 2015 (back from committee); No. 20, proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Exchange of Information Relating to Taxes and Tax Matters (Saint Christopher (Saint Kitts) and Nevis) Order 2015 (back from committee); No. 6, Finance (Tax Appeals) Bill 2015 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage; and No. 7, Criminal Justice (Burglary of Dwellings) Bill 2015 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that Nos. 14 to 20, inclusive, shall be decided without debate, and shall be moved together and decided by one Question which shall be put from the Chair.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

There is one proposal to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 14 to 20, inclusive, proposed approval of the exchange of information relating to tax matters for Argentine Republic, Commonwealth of the Bahamas and Saint Christopher (Saint Kitts) and Nevis, double taxation relief re taxes on income for Ethiopia and Pakistan, double taxation relief re taxes on income and capital gains for Zambia and Germany, without debate agreed to? Agreed.

Deputy Billy Kelleher

We had quite a comical scene in recent days with Government Deputies from the two political parties fighting over microphones in radio studios throughout the country trying to take credit for the capital investment programme that was announced. It would be important to have a debate on that capital investment programme in the House. In that context we should have enough time to talk about the real issue that is at the heart of Irish society at present, which is homelessness and the housing crisis in general. It is always politicised as was seen this morning with more one-upmanship on dealing with an issue that is now at crisis point.

Let us be under no illusions; it is a legacy on the Government parties' behalf. They came into government claiming that there were too many houses in the country and they are leaving government with a shortage of houses. We are now putting people into emergency portakabins. By any stretch of the imagination the homelessness issue has been an unmitigated failure on the Government's behalf to address what was always going to be an issue. People do not stop growing up, having children, growing older or forming different house formations. All of that was politely ignored by the Government for the past four and a half years. We now find that we are running around trying to find emergency accommodation in portakabins for families.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Is the Deputy calling for a debate?

Deputy Billy Kelleher

At the start of the Government's term, it claimed it would knock 10,000 or 11,000 houses because there were too many in the country. So it is a fair legacy to have after four and a half years. Could we have a debate on the capital investment programme to allow all parties to discuss the ambition or lack of it in that and the inherent difficulty in terms of homelessness and the need to deal with this particular crisis and maybe even in a non-partisan way at this stage? We do not have a functioning banking system that is lending properly to people who seek mortgages. We have problems with regulations and with planning.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy is going into detail now. I want to call the Tánaiste to reply.

Deputy Billy Kelleher

I ask for us to have that debate as urgently as possible.

The Tánaiste

There will be a dedicated debate on the capital programme, which will put a significant amount of public investment into the capital programme over the next five years. In fact it will provide employment, particularly in the building trade for tens of thousands of people-----

Deputy Billy Kelleher

The Tánaiste is late on that one. People are sleeping on the streets and families are sleeping in cars.

The Tánaiste

-----working in that industry.

Deputy Billy Kelleher

The Government sat on its hands and did nothing for four and a half years.

The Tánaiste

We inherited from Fianna Fáil-----

Deputy Billy Kelleher

They claimed we already had too many houses in the country.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Please, Deputy-----

The Tánaiste

----- a country where unfortunately because of its misguided-----

Deputy Barry Cowen

The Government decided to use that and do nothing.

The Tánaiste

-----and failed actions on the building industry-----

Deputy Barry Cowen

It made a conscious decision.

The Tánaiste

-----we ended up with the receivers coming into Ireland from the IMF-----

Deputy Barry Cowen

Does the Tánaiste think that will wash with the public?

The Tánaiste

-----and the other institutions.

Deputy Dara Calleary

The Government parties were elected the last time on that.

The Tánaiste

We took on the rescue and we are now at a position-----

Deputy Billy Kelleher

The Tánaiste is between a one-trick pony and-----

The Tánaiste

We are now at a position where there has been an enormous improvement in the number of houses now being built. My constituency is a hive of development activity because it is on the outskirts of Dublin. I have not seen such levels of building activity. I know most of the people who are here would not be familiar with Blanchardstown and areas like that.

Deputy Dara Calleary

We are more familiar than the Tánaiste is.

Deputy Barry Cowen

We know there are plenty of empty houses there.

The Tánaiste

Across the constituency we now have a very significant recommencement of building homes for families which is welcome. That is happening particularly right across Dublin but it is also happening in all the other regions.

Deputy Barry Cowen

It is on the Tánaiste's own back door.

The Tánaiste

We are also developing a very ambitious social housing programme.

Deputy Dara Calleary

What about the rent cap?

The Tánaiste

We will be very happy and there will be a debate next week on the capital programme. That will certainly happen next week.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I call Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh.

Deputy Barry Cowen

No debate on housing.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

I have a number of issues.

Deputy Barry Cowen

There will be no debate on housing.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

I have asked at Whips' meetings in particular given the crisis-----

Deputy Barry Cowen

After another five years and the Government might have staved off another crisis.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Please, Deputy Ó Snodaigh has the floor.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

Given the international crisis with refugees coming from the war-torn areas of Syria in particular and also from Kurdistan and places like that, can we have a debate quite quickly given the pronouncements made before the Dáil resumed to ensure that all the parties can lend support for Ireland to play its full part?

In her response to my question on Leaders' Questions, the Tánaiste mentioned the Dublin Docklands in particular. However, the legislation is stuck on Second Stage. If she believes that is the mechanism by which the Government will address the needs of those who are in Longboat Quay, will the Government accelerate that so that Dublin City Council, with hopefully the support of Government and legislation, can take charge and do what the Tánaiste is suggesting? It is not the full answer.

I ask about the Convention on the Constitution. On a number of occasions I have asked for debates on the outstanding reports from the convention which I have repeatedly praised as a having been a good experiment in participatory democracy. However, by the Oireachtas failing to have debates within the time it had set out, we are insulting the chair and those who took part. There was a commitment that those reports - there are three if not four left to be discussed - would be debated in the Chamber within three months of publication. At this stage it is almost two years since publication of some of those reports.

The Tánaiste

On the important issue of debating all the reports from the Convention on the Constitution, I would be happy to suggest to the Whips, including Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh, that they might provide for more Friday and Monday sittings so that if we have a backlog we can utilise the time to allow the Members to come in here and debate-----

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

The problem is that Departments are delaying it.

The Tánaiste

I am just trying to be helpful to the House. We have no difficulty in putting on additional time and particularly utilising Fridays and Mondays to address any of the outstanding recommendations that the Deputy feels would benefit from more detailed discussion and debate in here. We can provide a lot of time for that and I am sure many Deputies would be anxious to avail of the time to debate that in detail in here.

I understand the Dublin Docklands legislation will be in next week.

If, as a Whip, the Deputy discusses having a debate on refugees with his fellow Whips, the Government would certainly be happy to facilitate that. We have agreed in discussions with the European Union to accept a number of refugees under the European programme particularly from war-torn countries such as Syria. If there is agreement among the Whips on that issue, we would be happy to do it. As the Deputy knows, a number of people are already coming in and there is considerable co-ordination between the different agencies, including the Red Cross, which will provide services. The last time we had a significant number of programme refugees coming in, it was as a result of the conflict in Bosnia. So we have considerable experience collectively as a society of addressing these very important and significant humanitarian issues of rescuing people from what has been happening in the dreadful conflict in Syria.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

As seven Members wish to make a contribution, I ask for brevity.

Deputy Dara Calleary

Earlier, in one of her soliloquies that passes for a reply, the Tánaiste raised the emergency services, in particular the Dublin Fire Brigade.

She praised its wonderful record and said she trusts what the fire officers say, and so say all of us for all of our emergency services. A number of years ago we tabled a Bill on the protection of emergency workers, which would have applied to An Garda Síochána and all other emergency workers. I raise the issue in light of the increased number of attacks on members of the Garda in recent weeks and months. The Bill was voted down by the Government pending legislation to be introduced by it. That was in 2012 and it is now 2015. Does the Government have any plans to introduce legislation to penalise people specifically for attacking or endangering the lives of anybody in the emergency services?

The Tánaiste

Any direct attack on anybody who is part of the emergency services, of the kind described by Deputy Calleary, would be considered a criminal attack and would be a matter for the Garda to prosecute in the normal course of events.

Deputy Dara Calleary

It would be an extra offence.

The Tánaiste

I will ask for a report and send it to the Deputy. Speaking for my Department, when I became Minister for Social Protection there were a number of urgent issues relating to the social welfare status of retained firefighters around the country. As Minister, I gave priority to addressing the issue. We addressed it as a government as speedily as we could. It had been an outstanding issue for a very long period. Once again, I express my thanks to all the people who work in the fire services around the country. I agree with Deputy Calleary. We have worked as a government, and I have worked as Minister for Social Protection, to ensure in particular that members of the retained services in areas outside of the big cities, whose issues were outstanding for a long time, were addressed by me.

Deputy Dessie Ellis

An apartment block of 68 units has been lying idle for almost a decade in Prospect Hill, Finglas. For the past two years; individuals and families were allocated to them from the housing lists, only to be stopped at the last minute due to fire safety concerns. NAMA and the receiver are in control of the apartments. The Tánaiste and other Ministers have indicated that NAMA will play a bigger role in the delivery of social housing. With that in mind, does the Government intend to bring forward legislation to transfer properties and land from NAMA to local authorities? There is no accountability with NAMA and if the Government were to consider that angle it would deliver a real social dividend.

The Tánaiste

My understanding is that NAMA is working very hard on the matter and has already delivered more than 1,500 apartments and houses, which have been used to house families.

Deputy Dessie Ellis

The situation has been ongoing for ten years.

The Tánaiste

I understand that ongoing issues arise in certain local authorities in terms of whether certain accommodation is acceptable to them. I am not familiar with the detail of the development which the Deputy identified, but it is NAMA's objective, in particular where there are houses and apartments in urban areas where the level of demand is high but it is a bit more difficult in more remote rural areas. In urban areas where there is generally a demand, the intention is to address those issues as quickly as possible, subject sometimes to certain legal difficulties.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I thank the Tánaiste and call Deputy Seán Crowe.

Deputy Dessie Ellis

The Tánaiste did not answer the question about the transfer of the land. Will the Government consider legislation for the transfer of land-----

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy Ellis asked about legislation.

Deputy Dessie Ellis

-----to local authorities from NAMA? That is the big issue. People are becoming homeless following the sale of NAMA properties. That is what we should focus on.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I am sorry but I must call Deputy Elllis's colleague now.

The Tánaiste

NAMA already allows for the transfer of property.

Deputy Dessie Ellis

No, it is not. It is only leasing properties.

The Tánaiste

I am sorry.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We are not going to sort out the matter here.

The Tánaiste

It is allowing for transfers.

Deputy Seán Crowe

I take this opportunity to raise the case of Ibrahim Halawa who is facing a mass trial this Sunday. If convicted he will be sentenced to death. Will the Government agree to set time aside to discuss the case? Deputy Pat Breen, Chairman of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, was recently in Egypt on a visit to Ibrahim Halawa, as was Lynn Boylan, MEP. The conditions in which he is being kept in prison are horrific. He is sleeping on a mat. He is supposed to get an hour for family visits but sometimes family members only get four to five minutes. He is an Irish citizen and comes from Firhouse. Aside from having a discussion in this House, could we agree at some stage to provide solidarity to Ibrahim and his family, in particular as they face this weekend?

The Tánaiste

I am aware that the trial is due to take place and that it should finally go ahead on 4 October. As Deputy Crowe is aware, the difficulty has been that there have been constant delays and adjournments of the court proceedings. The Government's objective in the case of Ibrahim Halawa is to see him released by the Egyptian authorities so that he can return to his family and his studies in Ireland. We are very conscious of the fact that he is a young man who has spent a lot of time in the Egyptian legal system. Our ambassador in Egypt and our consular staff provide constant consular support for his welfare.

Deputy Seán Crowe

We do not have an ambassador in Egypt.

The Tánaiste

I am sorry, we have consular staff and they have been providing constant assistance to him in the context of him being held in custody. We would like to see Mr. Halawa returned home to Ireland and reunited with his family as soon as that is possible. I hope we will have a speedy conclusion and see him restored to his family.

Deputy Niall Collins

In 2012, I was made aware of allegations of improper payments of expenses at the University of Limerick. At the time I sent the information to the Committee of Public Accounts for review and for the committee to investigate the matter further. The Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, who is sitting beside the Tánaiste will be aware that recently the Limerick Leader reported on similar allegations being made by other whistleblowers, former employees of the University of Limerick.

A number of issues arise. First, there appears to be a conflict between the protected disclosures legislation and confidentiality agreements which the University of Limerick has with some former employees who are now whistleblowers. The University of Limerick has now issued High Court proceedings against the Limerick Leader and also personally against the editor of the newspaper, Mr. Alan English. That is a very serious development because a State-funded university is using State funding to issue proceedings to gag the media, as I perceive it, on a serious issue of public interest.

I have spoken to a number of the whistleblowers and I am aware of the allegations. It is an issue which merits proper discussion, scrutiny and investigation in this House. A proposal has been made to introduce the university (amendment) Bill. There is now a conflict between the protected disclosures legislation and confidentiality agreements. We must find out in the public interest whether there is a serious issue at stake, as many allege. One could say that given that so many whistleblowers have come forward to the Limerick Leader they cannot all be wrong. The issue merits serious scrutiny either through the Higher Education Authority, the Garda or whatever other appropriate agency. I would welcome a comment on the matter.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I do not know whether the matter is in order.

The Tánaiste

The University of Limerick is a very fine institution and it has provided first-class educational and development services to students, not only from Limerick but from the entire country. It is rightly recognised as one of our most outstanding third level institutions. It is important to say that about the university, which I have had the privilege of visiting on many occasions.

Deputy Niall Collins

I agree.

The Tánaiste

In my experience as a former member of the Committee of Public Accounts, the remit would properly lie with it.

I am quite sure that were the Deputy to bring this matter to the Chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts, Deputy McGuinness, it should be possible, given the urgency the Deputy attaches to the statement he has just made, for the Chairman perhaps to schedule hearings of that committee on the matters raised by the Deputy. I do not wish to comment on any court proceedings as obviously they are a matter for the court. I have been in the University of Limerick many times and know many people who work work and many people who have studied there. As a representative of Limerick and the region, it is important the Deputy acknowledges it is a fine university. If there are issues to be addressed of the kind mentioned by the Deputy, ultimately, it is for the Comptroller and Auditor General and the Committee of Public Accounts. Were the Deputy to approach the Chairman of that committee and explain the urgency of the matter he has raised, the Chairman might be able to facilitate him.

Deputy Ray Butler

I wish to raise two items of legislation with the Tánaiste, the first of which is the apprenticeship Bill to provide for protection and responsibilities applying to employers and apprenticeships in light of the introduction of a new apprenticeship. Many Members have done apprenticeships and have seen the exploitation of certain people. Consequently, I seek the Bill's publication. When is this expected? The second Bill is the proceeds of crime (amendment) Bill to strengthen the powers of the Criminal Assets Bureau, CAB, regarding the forfeiting of the proceeds of crime.

The Tánaiste

On the apprenticeship Bill, that should be published early next year. In respect of the Criminal Assets Bureau and the proceeds of crime, I understand the discussions with CAB are ongoing with a view to bringing forward legislation that will facilitate more proceeds of crime being made available, in particular, to be used ultimately for the public good.

Deputy Tony McLoughlin

I refer to the laws governing both the sale and consumption of alcohol in Ireland. When can Members expect the much anticipated sale of alcohol Bill to be brought before the House for debate? As I am sure the Tánaiste will agree, this Bill will simplify the current licensing laws and, ultimately, will reduce alcohol-related harm among young people, in particular.

The Tánaiste

The public health (alcohol) Bill will be introduced this session, while I understand the sale and consumption of alcohol Bill will be some time next year.

Deputy Ciara Conway

Members welcome the passage of the Marriage Bill through the Houses but prior to its introduction and the constitutional referendum on it, the Oireachtas passed the Children and Family Relationships Act, of which only one section has been commenced. When will the other sections be commenced? I understand it is between both the Department of Children and Youth Affairs and the Department of Justice and Equality but many families have outstanding issues in respect of inter-family adoption that cannot proceed because all the sections of this Act has not been commenced. I ask the Tánaiste to relay the urgency of this issue to her colleagues because many families are in limbo as these sections of this important Act have yet to be commenced.

The Tánaiste

I thank Deputy Conway for raising this important issue and will ask the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs when this will be forthcoming. I do not have an answer to hand for the Deputy but it is an important issue for the families and, in particular, for the children concerned.