Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 8 Oct 2015

Vol. 892 No. 2

Leaders' Questions

Deputy Barry Cowen

Today, there is another report from Simon stating that rents in Dublin are up 8.2% since last year. Daft.ie says that nationally rent for a two-bedroom house is 20% above the rent supplement. Families with children are being squeezed out of the rental market, yet the Minister has refused to increase the rent supplement, even though the Minister, the Tánaiste and their Government colleagues have been asked to do so since 2012.

The supply of private housing, in Dublin in particular, is stagnant. House repossession cases continue apace, with 100 alone in Cork today. There could be thousands more on the housing waiting list by the end of the year, according to Fr. Peter McVerry.

Let there be no doubt that, unfortunately, this Government has let this national crisis develop. It has reacted with too little, too late. Even though it has made many announcements, subsequent actions have been few and far between.

There is chaos in the housing sector and the number of homeless people is mounting. There is no easing off at all and the Government has failed to address the issue. It is not just me or any other Member of the Opposition who is saying this, it is being said by Simon, Focus Ireland, the Society of St. Vincent de Paul, Brother Kevin and Fr. McVerry.

Up to 3,000 vacant units across the country require refurbishment before families can move into them, yet the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Kelly, and the Government have cut €6 million from the refurbishment fund. It makes no sense whatsoever. In fact, it is a lesson in how to make things worse. For the past four and a half years, the Government has insisted that rent supplement will not be increased as it would drive rents higher. Why is the Government persisting in using rent supplement to control the private sector, rather than as the poverty-alleviating measure it is meant to be?

Lastly, I want to ask a question that has been answered in many different forms in recent weeks, so I would like to have some clarity on it. The Minister, Deputy Kelly, and the Taoiseach have sought to answer it. Last Tuesday week, the Taoiseach said that on foot of a Cabinet meeting that morning, the Government had ordered 150 modular housing units for Dublin families. How much have they cost, when will they be delivered, is emergency planning legislation required for them to be placed and, most importantly, when will families be moved into them?

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Alex White)

First of all, it is not acceptable that in Ireland in 2015 we have families living in emergency accommodation. It is not acceptable to the Government, the Oireachtas or the people.

Deputy Barry Cowen

The Minister is in government.

Deputy Alex White

That is a shared perspective on the fact that we have a serious problem here.

Deputy Barry Cowen

The Minister is not in opposition now. He has been in Government for four and a half years.

Deputy Alex White

As the Deputy well knows, many of the problems stem from a chronic lack of supply of housing, which is causing knock-on problems across the property market and the wider society, including renters, first-time buyers and low-income households. What we have to do is take action to resolve it, as the Deputy is calling for. That is what this Government is doing. As the House will be aware, the Government is progressing a number of suitable property and policy solutions for families who are in emergency accommodation.

There is a range of measures already under way taken by the Minister and by the Government. I will mention a few of them. For example, returning void units to full use is in train. The Minister, Deputy Kelly, has indicated to local authorities that additional funding will be made available. Indeed, he has made additional funding available in circumstances where local authorities exceed their 2015 targets. The most recent projections we have indicate that over 2,500 voids will be returned nationally by year's end. I am giving that as an example.

As regards the scale of homelessness, we accept that we have a problem. Some 3,372 adult individuals used State-funded emergency accommodation nationally during a week in August 2015. Those figures identify 707 families in emergency accommodation consisting of 959 adults and 1,496 dependants. We understand that the problem is serious and we are addressing it.

How are we addressing it? In 2015, there was an allocation in the Dublin region of €37.16 million. That was confirmed for the Dublin region and represents more than 70% of all the funding allocated nationally. The Dublin region homeless executive has confirmed that its expenditure to the end of August was €33.4 million with further expenditure committed but not yet paid out. These are the actions that are being taken.

Officials of the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government are in ongoing liaison with the Dublin region homeless executive and Dublin City Council on further possible 2015 requirements.

The Deputy raised the issue of modular housing. I note that the latter proposal, which is only one aspect of resolving this problem, has been well received by organisations, including NGOs and other interested bodies and individuals in this sector. They have welcomed it.

The Government has approved the immediate initiation of a programme for the early delivery of 500 modular housing units. They will be delivered in two tranches of 150 and 350. The first 150 units are planned to be delivered within four months, on sites in the Dublin City Council area, utilising the most expeditious procurement and planning provisions available to us.

A parallel process to develop a national framework will be overseen by the Office of Government Procurement to address the issue raised by the Deputy. This framework will be used to deliver the additional 350 units I mentioned. It will also be available to any local authority to procure further modular housing.

There are many other policy instruments that are being adopted and pursued by the Minister and the Government, including tenancy protection and the allocation of local authority tenancies. We have a taskforce on social housing and homelessness.

Deputy Billy Kelleher

This is a second stage speech, in fairness.

Deputy Alex White

This issue is an extremely challenging problem for the Government and nobody is making light of that for one moment. However, it has to be addressed through practical, systematic measures taken by the Government and the Minister, Deputy Kelly, in particular, to ensure that we address this difficult and challenging problem.

Deputy Billy Kelleher

The Minister might answer the question. We are not down in the Four Courts now.

Deputy Alex White

The Government is doing that and we will deliver the answers that are required in terms of bringing these issues to a conclusion.

Deputy Barry Cowen

The Minister is a great man to commentate, like some of his colleagues beside him.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Where is angry Alex?

Deputy Barry Cowen

It is similar to a lot of his announcements and press releases, talking about it being a number one priority, but there is no action to follow up on any of this. I asked the Minister, notwithstanding-----

Deputy Robert Dowds

What utter rubbish.

Deputy Barry Cowen

Excuse me, if you do not mind.

The Government has had four and half years to address the issue and has not addressed it to date.

(Interruptions).

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Please.

Deputy Barry Cowen

I have no doubt-----

Deputy Pat Deering

What was Fianna Fáil doing for 14 years?

(Interruptions).

Deputy Barry Cowen

Between 2007 and 2010 some 14,500 units were built by local authorities on foot of Government policy.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

That was when Fianna Fáil was destroying the country.

Deputy Barry Cowen

In the first three years of this Government, it built 107. Ten local authorities have built none. That is the Government's legacy.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Barry Cowen

I will leave that with the Government Deputies. They may wish to mull over that for a moment.

(Interruptions).

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Please.

Deputy Barry Cowen

If I am allowed, I will ask a supplementary question with regard to the answer I got from the gentleman across the floor.

Deputy Derek Keating

That was when the country was awash with Fianna Fáil's borrowed money.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Can we have order, please? Deputy Cowen has the floor.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Billy Kelleher

The Government is driving them onto the streets.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy Cowen has the floor. This is Leaders' Questions.

Deputy Barry Cowen

I will get to the nub of the question I specifically asked. A sense of immediacy and urgency is required to deal with the terrible situation that exists on the streets of Dublin and many other parts of the country. This morning we heard people talking about living in tents. We heard a woman on the radio some weeks ago who was living in a hotel. A total of 1,500 families are in emergency accommodation. A sense of immediacy and urgency is required to address this issue.

Some weeks ago, the Taoiseach and the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government said the 150 units that had been ordered would be in place before Christmas. The Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy White, is now telling me it will be up to four months. At this stage, that means it will go on to February. Is the Minister sure, even at that, where they will be located and whether planning permission will have been secured for them in order that they can be in place within four months? It is highly unlikely, given how the procurement and planning process works and the length of time it takes. Deputy White should know that as well as I do.

That being the case, what can the Government do at this stage, further to what the Minister said on television last Sunday and what he and the Taoiseach have said in the House previously? Will the Government bring forward emergency legislation to allow for planning permission to be more forthcoming than it is under the normal procurement process? That is the sort of immediacy and urgency that needs to be brought to the House to address this emergency issue in real terms. Some 130,000 people are on the waiting list, but there were 90,000 when the Government came to office. Fully 2,600 homes throughout the country are empty.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy, you are over time.

Deputy Barry Cowen

The Government has cut the amount of refurbishment funding by €6 million year-on-year. These are the facts. The Government must now deal with the urgency and immediacy of the situation if those responsible want some legacy in this area before they go to the country.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Colm Keaveney

Deputy Durkan should relax and take a deep breath.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Minister has the floor, please.

Deputy Alex White

The Deputy accuses me-----

(Interruptions).

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Could we have order, please? The Minister is replying.

Deputy Colm Keaveney

The Deputy will not be happy until everyone is in a shed.

Deputy Alex White

The Deputy accuses me of engaging in commentary. That is strange coming from him. He says there has been no action. An additional €2.2 billion in funding was announced in budget 2015 in respect of the social housing strategy.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

That is for three years.

Deputy Alex White

The strategy is a comprehensive response - reasonable people and those in the House will accept that - to the need for social housing. We need to build houses.

Deputy Robert Troy

Fifteen hundred children are in hotels.

Deputy Alex White

We have a problem and we need to build houses. Even the Deputies opposite must understand that it takes time to put together a process by which we can actually build houses.

Deputy Robert Troy

The Government has had four and half years to do it.

Deputy Alex White

We have a target of 110,000 social housing units by 2020, including 35,000 new social housing units and 75,000 through the housing assistance payment.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

That is absolute fantasy.

Deputy Alex White

That is not commentary; that is the target. If the Members opposite have practical proposals to make and practical suggestions - I will come to the one the Deputy made in a moment - we would be delighted to hear them. However, sometimes I get an impression that these difficult and serious social issues are being used. There is always a danger that Members are leveraging them to make a political point in the House rather than actually trying to address or resolve a real and pressing social problem. There is always a danger-----

(Interruptions).

Deputy Alex White

If it is necessary to introduce legislation to address the procurement question, I am sure the Minister will do that.

Deputy Barry Cowen

The Minister says "If it is necessary". He does not even know.

Deputy Alex White

Legislation may not be necessary to address the issue of procurement. It may well be possible to deliver these modular homes without having to change the legislation.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Alex White

The Deputy simply wants to throw around the idea of having emergency legislation so that he can utter the word "emergency" as often as he possibly can in the course of this question. What we are doing is actually addressing the problem. We are delivering solutions. The Deputies opposite have no solutions and no proposals other than attack.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh is next. Could we have order, please?

Deputy Barry Cowen

The Government will not attack the problem.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

On 23 April 2014, the eve of the 98th anniversary of the 1916 Rising, the Government announced that, through NAMA, it would invest €5 million in refurbishing and restoring the section of Moore Street which had been designated as a national monument, that is, Nos. 14 to 17 Moore Street. This was re-announced five months later by the Minister for Arts and Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Heather Humphreys. She announced further funding to develop a commemorative centre on this last outpost or GHQ of the Army of the Irish Republic in 1916, the place where they treated with the British for surrender.

The Minister, Deputy White, is also aware, I presume, that in six short months we will have the 100th anniversary of this seminal period of Irish history. The families of those who led and took part in the Rising have sought for this Government and the previous Government to take the required steps not only to secure 14 to 17 Moore Street but to protect the entire battlefield site and to faithfully restore it as fitting tribute to those who raised the flag of the Irish Republic 100 years ago.

Given that the loan portfolio called Project Jewel, owned by the developer Joe O'Reilly of Chartered Lands, is being sold as we speak by NAMA and includes the area identified as that battlefield site, will the Government instruct the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, to issue an instruction to the NAMA board, as he has done on several occasions before on other issues, to the effect that NAMA must ensure that the site as identified is protected?

Does the Minister believe that the whole area, from the GPO to Parnell Square, including Moore Street, should be recognised as a 1916 revolutionary quarter and, as such, be marked and designated a national monument?

Further, how is it in the interests of the people - whose interests NAMA is supposed to protect, and whom the Government is supposed to serve - to dispose of the entire site in the manner that NAMA intends - that is, to the highest bidder? Let us remember that the National Museum has identified this site as the most important historical site in modern Irish history.

Under what terms has the designated national monument at 14 to 17 Moore Street been transferred to the State? Has it been valued and, if so, by whom? Can the Government commit to stating, even at this stage, when that work will begin on the site, if it begins at all?

Deputy Alex White

As the Deputy acknowledged at the outset, announcements have been made in respect of the restoration of those important buildings on Moore Street. I think the announcements that the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, and the Government have made will do justice to the historical importance of the buildings and the site for the people of Dublin and Ireland. That is the way we should proceed in respect of our entire approach to the commemorations of 1916.

The Deputy raised the matter, and I believe it behoves all of us, those in his party included, to seek to ensure, as far as we possibly can, that we have a united and collective approach to the celebration and commemoration of this seminal event of 1916. We should work as best we can together, whether as politicians across the House or more generally in the community, to do what is fitting and right next year in respect of 1916. I believe the Government's programme of events is fitting. There may have been some controversy or different views on the emphases proposed at the outset. Anyway, I believe that what has been done by the Government has been broadly recognised by historians and others as fairly representing a fitting and proper commemoration of the 1916 Rising. I call on those in Sinn Féin to support the approach taken by the Government and a cross-party approach in this House as well as a collective approach generally in the community to the commemoration of that event.

It seems to me that there is nothing to be gained from a fragmented approach to this important event, and we should work together as best we can to achieve something that is right and proper. The announcement made by the Minister on the restoration of Moore Street was very welcome and should be supported.

As to the involvement of NAMA, I am not completely clear on what the Deputy is proposing. He knows NAMA has a very specific remit under legislation in respect of what it is required to do and that it makes decisions in accordance with the remit it has on the basis of the loans and so on with which it is dealing. It would not be appropriate for us to see this as an occasion for instruction by the Minister to NAMA in respect of particular properties. We can do a huge amount in Dublin and throughout the country to celebrate and commemorate 1916, and I do not think NAMA will manage that. Rather, it will be done by the Government, the Oireachtas and the people.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

NAMA can take instruction from the Minister for Finance, as it has done on 15 separate occasions since September 2009. I ask on this occasion that the Government, which includes the Minister, ask him to issue the required instruction to ensure the portion of Moore Street not currently designated as a national monument be designated and protected as such.

The Minister said it should be a fitting tribute next year. I do not see how sending in the bulldozers to Moore Street would be seen in any way as a fitting tribute. It might be appropriate from the historical viewpoint of some people in this country, but I have worked since 2006 on the decade of commemorations committee, and the one before it. I have helped it and given it ideas which have been taken on board by the Government. I have attended many meetings. There is no separation from a Sinn Féin or Government programme, and they should not be competing. Rather, they should be complementary. We have always said that and worked based on that view.

Having said that, it does not seem that the Minister or his Department is working to help and complement programmes developed by political parties. Today in The Irish Times it is stated that the Minister, or perhaps his Department, is refusing to give permission for an event in O'Connell Street which would involve a projection of sounds and images onto the portico of the GPO. That is politicisation of the events of 1916 without having any knowledge of the content or anything else. If that instruction came from the Minister, it would have been very helpful if he had, first and foremost, replied to the letter which was sent to him seeking permission rather than he or somebody from his Department running to the journalist, Fiach Kelly. There has been no correspondence to date to indicate to us that the Minister is refusing that permission. If he is not, perhaps he might want to take the project on board. Is it the case that there is jealousy among some about some of the imaginative ideas Sinn Féin has come up with to try to highlight and pay fitting tribute to the men and women of 1916?

Deputy Alex White

The Deputy makes things up as he goes along. I do not know whether it is to fill time or what it is.

Deputy Finian McGrath

Like the Minister and housing.

Deputy Alex White

He knows perfectly well that I have absolutely no responsibility in respect of granting permission for whatever it is he says his party is looking for regarding the GPO. I have not been asked to do so-----

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

The Minister has responsibility.

Deputy Alex White

-----because the person in his party, unlike the Deputy, presumably understands that the Minister does not make this decision.

Deputy Finian McGrath

The Minister was probably against the Rising.

Deputy Alex White

It is a matter for An Post, and everybody in this House knows that.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

Who is the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources?

Deputy Alex White

The Deputy can play politics with it if he wants to. It is a pity that Sinn Féin, having said it is not playing party politics with an issue like this, then comes to the House and accuses somebody else of politicising the issue.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

I did not bring it in.

Deputy Alex White

The fact is that any decisions on the use of the GPO are entirely and exclusively a matter for An Post, and the Deputy has been around here long enough to know that perfectly well.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

The Minister is bluffing.

Deputy Alex White

That leads me to the conclusion that he is doing nothing other than seeking to politicise this issue.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

He might as well get out of his job.

Deputy Alex White

He should not do that, and he is giving a lie to his own statement that he wants to seek a co-operative approach and so on by parties across the board. If there is an issue regarding An Post, he should take it to that company. It is a pity to hear the Deputy's attitude. The parties here should and can work together to ensure we have, as I said, a fitting and proper commemoration of 1916. We should do that in part on the streets of Dublin, including O'Connell Street, the GPO and the other important buildings in Moore Street he mentioned. We can do that together successfully but not through the sort of nonsense and posturing we have just heard.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

Last week on Leaders' Questions I asked the Taoiseach if he agreed that the housing crisis was the most pressing issue in the country right now and to declare a housing emergency. This week I would like to put the same questions to the Labour Party because while the Taoiseach did not declare a housing emergency, people might expect a different response from the Labour Party. I was somewhat concerned when the Minister called it a "problem". This is much more than a problem and it is time for the Labour Party to say there is a homelessness emergency.

Fine Gael has never been a big proponent of social housing or pretended that it cared about working class people, but the Labour Party did and holds the Ministry dealing with homelessness and housing. Today, there are two women in the Gallery who are homeless. I would like the Minister to look up and acknowledge them. Last week, 15 families from Dublin West were homeless. Maybe the Minister's colleague from Dublin West might show some concern as well, if he can get off his phone for a moment. They did not feel that the Taoiseach acknowledged their presence here in any way. I would like the people who have been elected to listen to what such people have to say.

These are just two of the young women caught in the grip of the homelessness tsunami that was spoken about. Unlike a tsunami, this is not a natural disaster. Rather, it is a direct result of the politics of neoliberalism, the slashing of expenditure on social housing by 84% between 2008 and 2013 and the failure of the Government to deal with rocketing rents and repossessions. It is a lethal brew which led to one of the women concerned having nowhere to go until about 5 p.m. last night. She did not know where she would be and whether she could bring her baby son with her, and in the end she could not. She has been told to travel 25 km away from her base where her family is, without any transport, tomorrow. Does the Minister think this is acceptable? Does the Labour Party have any different position on housing from that of Fine Gael? If it does, why is the Government housing strategy so heavily dependent on sweeteners for private landlords and developers?

In his earlier contribution the Minister, when questioned by Fianna Fáil, never mentioned building and houses. He referred to procurements, voids - which are not additional housing - the social housing stock and modular prefabs. He never spoke about building local authority homes. Can the Minister tell us what will be built? This year 20 local authority and 117 housing association houses were built. If that continues, the figure will be 500 for the year. Is this the record and legacy of the Labour Party?

Did the Minister hear the spokesperson from the Simon Community outlining on "Morning Ireland" that the number of houses available for people on rent allowance is at an all-time low? The number of houses available has dropped by 25%. The Minister seems to think that the housing assistance payment, the rental accommodation scheme and all the other schemes based on private ownership of homes will work. The spokesperson said a lot has been done in terms of private housing, but little has been done about social housing. Does the Minister agreed that local authorities need to go back to the business of building houses for people?

Deputy Alex White

I do not agree with very much else the Deputy said, but I do agree with her last point, namely, that local authorities have to return to building houses. That is a critical element of the approach of the Government to addressing and solving the issue rather than just talking about it. In 2015, 7,400 new social housing units are targeted for delivery with a further 8,400 to be delivered through the HAP scheme.

Since the strategy was published by the Minister, as I mentioned earlier, €493 million has been allocated to local authorities and approved housing bodies for the construction - I will use the word "building" which the Deputy asked me to use - and acquisition of more than 3,000 units up to 2017. In addition, we have more than €91 million worth of housing investment across a range of housing schemes to bring vacant social housing units back into productive use, which the Deputy perhaps appears to pooh-pooh but it is clearly an important aspect of what we need to do, namely, to improve housing for people with disabilities, which is critically important, and retrofit homes to improve energy efficiency, which is extremely important in the context of energy poverty. These are practical decisions and approaches that have been taken by the Government.

Approximately 4,000 households are in receipt of the housing assistance payment. It is available in 13 local authority areas-----

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

Half the target.

Deputy Alex White

-----and more are now being planned.

Deputy John Halligan

HAP is a failure throughout the country

Deputy Alex White

The Urban Regeneration and Housing Act 2015 was commenced with effect from 1 September and this revises the earlier arrangements on social and affordable housing to maximise the delivery, building and construction of social housing units.

With regard to financing social housing, we have put in place a significant Exchequer kick-start of €2.2 billion for budget 2015. These are practical decisions made by the Government to resolve this problem. Work is already under way on site selection for a €300 million public private partnership programme to build 1,500 social housing units. Work is progressing on a strategic housing fund, with €400 million of public investment for the acquisition and development of social housing. The social housing proposals clearing house group, which was established under the strategy, is considering investment proposals and has examined approximately 25 to date. We are working on this. We are delivering on this agenda. Yes, it is a serious issue for the Government and is absolutely being addressed in that context. We need to return to the building of social housing by local authorities. That is completely correct but we also need to ensure that, where possible, and I think it is possible, we bring the private sector element and contribution into play also. Action is taking place on all fronts - not just talk but action.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

We have had all this talk for four and a half years. It is too late for the families who are suffering. It is four and a half years too late for the Labour Party to turn its attention to this issue. The Minister spoke of a lack of supply. To reiterate the point on house building, 8,794 council houses were built in this country in 1975. I have just told the Minister that this year 500 will be built. How can the Minister talk about the Labour Party taking this seriously? He did not answer the question, which was very clear. Does the Labour Party feel this is an emergency or not? Does it think it is just a problem? Will the Minister please answer this in his summing up?

How many houses will be built using the €37 million allocated for Dublin? Will hotels, modular homes and all of the other emergency accommodation measures be included in this regard or will it just be home building? I can understand how some families might feel modular housing is an alternative for them - and better than being stuck in hotels and travelling miles to school with no proper food or cooking - however, the Minister said modular homes would take four months to complete, while houses could be built in three months. A house does not take much longer than three or four months to build. The key problem is planning. If the Minister really thought it was an emergency, he would be introducing emergency legislation to allow the Government to acquire the land that exists. For example, NAMA has ownership of one third of all the land in Dublin. The Government would be building houses and fast-tracking social and affordable houses rather than relying on modular homes.

Fine Gael obviously does not give a toss about people in social housing, but this is something-----

Deputy Anthony Lawlor

The Deputy voted against it on Dublin City Council, so she should not tell me-----

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

Perhaps Deputy Lawlor might not make a show of himself by shouting over what I have to say.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy Coppinger to conclude.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

The fact the Labour Party has left this to weeks, potentially, or even months before a general election is a serious error. This is permeating through working-class and even middle-income communities. Many people are stuck paying €1,700 or €1,800 in rent each month. The Labour Party has made a serious error. Will the Minister please answer this: if he believes it is an emergency, what will he do about the actual building of houses?

Deputy Alex White

As the Leas Ceann Comhairle will appreciate, I am very happy at any time to answer for my party, the Labour Party, and I am proud to do so, but I am here representing the Government today and I am responding in that capacity. The Deputy opposite likes to mention my party. If one did a word search on her contribution, one would probably discover she referred to my party approximately ten times. She is completely obsessed with the Labour Party.

Deputy Seán Ó Fearghaíl

She is the only one that is.

Deputy Alex White

I will tell the House the difference between my party and her outfit over there. Instead of actually engaging in ridiculous stunts to get ourselves into court and into the newspapers-----

Deputy Joe Higgins

Outrageous.

Deputy Alex White

-----we take practical steps to address the issues facing the working people about whom she claims to be so concerned. She postures, just like the two people beside her, in the Chamber. They continually posture but social problems are there to be solved and not to be leveraged for political gain.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

Deputy Alex White

That is what the three Members up at the top do, day in and day out.

Deputy Joe Higgins

That is outrageous. Four and a half years and you have done nothing. We are dealing with the mess you failed to resolve.

Deputy Alex White

They oppose every practical measure. All of the people and NGOs involved in the debate believe modular housing can make a great contribution. What about Deputy Coppinger and her colleagues? Inexplicably, they flew in the face of all the housing and advocacy groups by opposing the immediate roll-out of 115 units of modular housing which are so urgently needed.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

Where did that happen?

Deputy Joe Higgins

Where are they?

Deputy Alex White

They talk about an emergency. They went into the chamber of Dublin City Council and voted against it. That is not politics.

Deputy Paul Murphy

Where? That is not true.

Deputy Alex White

That is hypocrisy, absolute hypocrisy. Since they are so obsessed with the Labour Party, I can tell them this - the difference is we see a necessity to solve social problems, we do not believe social problems are, as it were, a godsend for political recruitment.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

The Government is creating them.

Deputy Alex White

We see them as something to be solved and that is what we are doing.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

Deputy Joe Higgins

As cynical a response as we would have expected.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

The Tánaiste, Deputy Burton, could not have done better than that. It is an absolute lie and an evasion of the questions as usual. With homeless people sitting in the Gallery, the Minister should be ashamed of himself in not taking this matter seriously.

Deputy Joe Higgins

Somebody who once thought he was a socialist, especially.

Deputy Ruth Coppinger

No, he never thought he was. He is a posh boy.

Deputy Paul Kehoe

Is the Deputy talking to the posh boy beside her?