Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 10 Dec 2015

Vol. 900 No. 2

Topical Issue Debate

Flood Relief Schemes Funding

Deputy Barry Cowen

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for allowing me to raise this issue, clarify some matters and seek information from the Department regarding its response.

I empathise with everyone who has been and continues to be affected by what has been happening since the weekend. We can only hope and pray that their homes, businesses, livelihoods, farms and so forth can be saved from the disaster that many fear is imminent despite their efforts to withstand the pressure being caused by the floods. It is only right and proper that we acknowledge and pay tribute to the various stakeholders for the help that has been given across the country from Crossmolina to Bandon and everywhere in between, including Athlone, east Galway, Clare and Shannonbridge, Shannon Harbour, Banagher and so forth in my county of Offaly. I refer to local authorities and their staff, the Red Cross and volunteers, but also to the great community spirit that has been shown by everyone involved in the efforts to help in urban and rural areas.

The difficulties are continuing. Unfortunately, it emerged in recent weeks that the Office of Public Works, OPW, had under provided for flood defences by €15 million. This is cold comfort to the people in question, but it may offer an opportunity for the Government to ensure that sufficient resources and funding are available to address the issue. From a humanitarian perspective, it is the responsibility of the Tánaiste and the Department of Social Protection to respond to those households that have been affected by providing white goods, clothing, bedding, food, etc. Funds should be made available immediately.

The minor works and drainage works schemes have been cut by 3% per annum since 2010. That remedial and preventative work was carried out by council staff. As Deputy Fitzmaurice stated today, there has been a loss of up to 60% in local authorities' outdoor staff in recent years. The ensuing problems are crystallising as we speak in terms of insurance. People are beginning to ask about accountability and culpability. We wonder about promised flood defence mechanisms and the funding that, despite being available from the Department for onward transmission to local authorities, was not drawn down. Could it be that people will be in a position to ask questions of those whose foot-dragging may have caused this problem?

The previous major storm struck in January 2014.

The local authority in my county proposed that the Department meet the cost it had incurred. It is currently incurring costs. The cost of the works in respect of which it made its proposal amounted to €439,000. Eventually, after six, eight or ten months, the local authority was reimbursed to the tune of €43,000. While local authorities and the other stakeholders are making every effort to address the difficulties that exist, they need to hear from the Department that they will be reimbursed in full, irrespective of the cost, without foot dragging by the Department in making the funds available. In this way people can be safe and secure in the knowledge that every effort is being made and that every possible source of funding is being used by local authorities to address the difficulties in the full knowledge the local authorities will be reimbursed. This has not been the case in recent years.

Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government (Deputy Paudie Coffey)

I thank the Deputy for raising this important matter, which I am taking on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Alan Kelly, who, as we know, is out of the country.

I wish to be associated with the comments of Deputy Cowen on how we should empathise with all those who have been seriously affected by the recent flooding and past flooding. We have seen footage of flooding that has affected homes, businesses and farms. I can only imagine how stressful it is for all those concerned. I agree with the Deputy on the various State agencies, local authorities, voluntary groups and the emergency response unit, which have responded, as always, in a very positive way to assist those in most need.

On Thursday, 3 December, a high wind and rainfall weather system was flagged by Met Éireann. This is the first time a red level warning, which is for rainfall in excess of 70 mm in a 24-hour period, has been issued since Met Éireann put the Meteoalarm warning system in place.

My Department has been assigned the lead departmental role for responding to a number of emergency scenarios, including severe weather and flooding. As a result of the Met Éireann warning, my Department asked the Office of Emergency Planning to convene a national co-ordination group. Since it was convened last Thursday, the group, led by my Department, has been meeting routinely in the National Emergency Co-ordination Centre to assess the threat level based on the weather forecasts in addition to information on river levels and flood forecasts as part of a co-ordinated national response. On 4 December and 5 December, local authorities convened their severe weather assessment teams. These teams anticipated problem areas, based on Met Éireann's weather forecasts and OPW flood warnings received, and activated their crisis management and local co-ordination arrangements and responses. Protocols for inter-agency collaboration with An Garda Síochána and the HSE were also activated to co-ordinate the response. No major emergency was declared but severe weather emergency protocols are part of the major emergency plans in place in all the principal response agencies.

The entire outdoor staff of local authorities in the worst affected areas worked since Friday, with area engineers directing operations and fire services responding to life-threatening situations and incidents where pumping was appropriate. Local authorities have also mobilised their Civil Defence services. In Donegal alone, 97 volunteers were involved in supporting the local response. Other voluntary organisations, such as the Red Cross, Mountain Rescue and the Coast Guard unit, have also been mobilised to provide assistance at local level, as required. In addition, the Defence Forces were active at the request of the local authorities, and they have assisted communities from Cork to Donegal. They are currently heavily involved in assisting communities in Athlone and Clare.

Local authorities are continuing to monitor circumstances in areas regarded to be most at risk based on both forecasts and OPW warnings. Local authority crisis management teams will continue to manage and direct the overall response at local level and liaise with the national level bodies. The work of local authority area engineers and outdoor staff has continued where flooding threats remain.

My Department wrote to local authorities on 9 December asking them to compile an initial estimate of the damage caused to public infrastructure in their administrative areas as a result of the severe flooding. The information received from local authorities will form part of the report that the Minister will use to update the Cabinet on Tuesday.

With regard to communications between local authorities and residents in affected areas, there has been direct contact in many cases between local authority staff and residents in areas considered to be at risk of flooding. I note that the first priority of the local and national responding agencies is public safety, and local authorities have been using a number of methods to get public safety messages out to people in their areas. In addition to utilising social media, a number of local authorities have been issuing SMS texts directly to people in their functional area.

Local authorities are using the OPW's guidance messages on planning for responding to and recovering from flood events. They will continue to link and work with residents to protect their homes and will offer any assistance they can to residents who are making efforts to put mitigation measures in place. Local authorities also support the evacuation of residents where inundation cannot be avoided.

Deputy Barry Cowen

I thank the Minister of State for his response and clarifying the total commitment of local authorities to working with everybody concerned to ensure the public is informed and assisted and that no stone is left unturned in helping everybody affected.

I am conscious that the Minister of State said the Minister, Deputy Alan Kelly, will be updating the Cabinet on Tuesday on the perspective of his Department, which has responsibility for local authorities. With this in mind, I remind the House about certain occurrences in the hope they will not recur this time around. There was under-expenditure by the OPW in the order of €15 million on flood defence mechanisms. Only one tenth of the cost was reimbursed to councils further to the damage caused two years ago. Councils, the public and Members need to be reassured that no obstacle will be in the way of the Government when funding local authorities to ensure the sort of response our constituents deserve.

Having met representatives of the ESB today, it continues to be apparent that the organisation believes any alterations to address water levels in Lough Derg will not benefit anybody in my area or that of Deputy Fitzmaurice. It has no control and no obligation and there is no coming together of minds to address the silt issue that was raised earlier today in the House and by many of our constituents over recent years. The Government and its predecessor committed funds for drainage works in the River Brosna, but they were brought to a grinding halt by bodies such as the fisheries authority and the National Parks and Wildlife Service.

Despite previous commitments, I would like another commitment to be given today to help the people at the coalface whose livelihoods have been destroyed because of a lack of cohesive action on the part of all the relevant authorities. I want the Government to commit to bringing together all the relevant stakeholders, including the ESB, the OPW, the relevant Departments, the National Parks and Wildlife Service, the fisheries authorities and the IFA. Reason has to win over. Although we hear about the environmental impact of various works that are required, unfortunately it has come to the stage where the common good has to be prioritised. This year, we noted the figure for drainage works has been reduced by 3% since 2010. It is a year in which the OPW spent €15 million less than it had committed for drainage works and in which the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government has not fully reimbursed councils. I will be obtaining the national figure in the coming days. In my county, which has been greatly affected once more, only 10% of the cost of rectification works was paid to the local authority. I have fears in this regard that need to be addressed. I hope the Minister of State will do so right now.

Deputy Paudie Coffey

I reiterate that there has to be a cross-government response involving the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, the OPW, the Department of Social Protection in so far as it supports families who are directly affected, the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine, the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, all the agencies that come under the Departments, and the local authorities. They need to try to work together to mitigate the flood risk and assist those who are worst affected.

My colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Simon Harris, is making an announcement regarding a further assistance programme to be administered by the Office of Public Works. Officials from the Department of Social Protection are available and are providing direct assistance to those affected by the floods, including those who had to leave their homes.

It is important to acknowledge the excellent response led by the local authorities to this severe weather crisis that is being delivered under extremely difficult conditions. I thank the principal response agencies, volunteers from the various agencies and Defence Forces personnel who supported the local authorities during the response phase. In addition to the national and local government response, it is a feature of this type of weather crisis in Ireland that communities come together to assist their neighbours in responding to the crisis. This has played a major role in contributing to the relief effort and I thank those who have taken time and resources to support their neighbours in their communities at this time of need. Local authorities and supporting agencies remain in full response mode and the national co-ordination group is meeting daily to update the threat assessment at national level.

The Deputy raised some valid points. It should be recognised that much progress has been made in the provision of flood relief schemes in areas that had been severely affected by flooding. While these recent efforts have had some degree of success, I accept that this will be of little comfort to those who are affected by the current flood event. We must continually work together and collaborate to mitigate the flood risk for as many citizens as possible.

Flood Prevention Measures

Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice

We have seen on television and on the ground the devastation being caused by the floods. People's hearts have been broken. The River Suck drainage committee was disbanded more than a year ago, meaning that 30 or 40 people employed in the committee have not been doing any work to prevent flooding. The scheme was sponsored by Galway and Roscommon county councils. The rivers in most counties, including counties Mayo and Offaly, have not been cleaned out.

The Minister of State, Deputy Damien English, will be familiar with land. We come from marginal land and spend our lives trying to tame a wild duck, in other words, trying to make good land out of middling land. We do this by creating shores and making and cleaning drains. Some towns require flood walls to block flood waters. However, in the vast majority of locations, the most important measure is to clean out rivers. The River Shannon at Banagher, for example, is silted up to approximately 12 ft. I know a guy who failed to get up the River Suck in a canoe because of the level of silt in the river. I am not scare mongering. I come from this area and have a good idea of the issues.

Under successive Governments, the position has been that everyone but local people are responsible for water courses. Five or six bodies, including the ESB, Inland Fisheries Ireland, the National Parks and Wildlife Service, which thinks it owns the country, and Waterways Ireland, share responsibility but none of them co-ordinates with the other bodies. We have to cut to the chase by ensuring that one body assumes responsibility. It is hard luck to whoever comes in the way of a machine intended to save people's lives because I am sick of people telling me that flora or fauna are more important than a human being.

Nearly every Deputy was brought up in the countryside and we grew up with nature and looked after it. We preserved the birds. Weekend fundamentalist environmentalists are coming to the country and telling us what to do, which will not work. We have now drowned most of the nature in every part of the country because these people do not understand managed landscapes.

Municipal areas generally have two area engineers. However, staff have been cut over the years and people who retire are not replaced. At one stage, a member of council staff, usually an elderly guy, would travel around water courses, opening them up with a shovel. This had an unbelievable effect in areas.

The lunacy of European Union regulations means workers building a road in Moycullen were told to stop work if rainfall exceeded 6 ml. because a dropeen might get near the poor pearl mussel, which was five miles downstream. We need to cop on. Behind the scenes, everyone will tell me I am right but that does not solve the problem for people in Athlone who are out of their homes this evening because of flooding.

If we are so fond of the environment, we should consider the environmental damage being caused by the floods. Many slatted sheds are full of water today, which means a large amount of slurry will flow down the River Shannon. There is no point in denying it.

Every Deputy would support the Government if it sent a Minister to Europe to face down whoever it is over there who thinks he is God almighty. We should ask the EU whether it wants slurry or water to flow down the River Shannon and whether it wants people to live in Ireland or the country to become a theme park.

Minister of State at the Department of Education and Skills (Deputy Damien English)

I thank Deputy Fitzmaurice for his comments. As usual, he speaks common sense. His contribution reminds me of a conversation I had in my first year in the Dáil with the former Minister of State with responsibility for the Office of Public Works, Mr. Tom Parlon. I asked him to get the dredging machines working and he responded positively to that suggestion. That is the type of attitude we need. There are many rules and regulations in place, some of which have been introduced by the European Union and some introduced at national level. There are also many agencies involved. We need to find a way to cut through the red tape and get the work done. Part of the solution is having staff and resources to achieve this and thankfully we are now in a position to start doing things again because we have money. As I stated the other night, more money will be spent on flood remediation in the next five years than was spent in the past 20 years. The issue is to ensure this money is spent as quickly and effectively as possible and none of it is wasted unnecessarily on red tape.

Many changes are coming on stream from a European perspective in the sense that we are seeking to reduce regulation. The Deputy is correct, however, that we must also speak with our own voices to try to bring back common sense where we can. However, it should be noted that while the European Union is often blamed, most of the rules introduced by the EU are agreed by national governments. For his reason, we must start to speak up at the right time. We also have to find ways to respond properly when emergencies occur.

I am speaking on behalf of the Minister of State, Deputy Simon Harris, who could not be present as he and the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine are giving a presentation on this matter elsewhere. The Minister of State recognises the importance of leading on the issue of flooding and ensuring we are not always caught up in red tape. The Government is trying to do this as best it can.

In the past six years, we have twice had a level of rainfall that is expected only once every 100 years. This brings urgency to the issue. The Office of Public Works is trying to lead by producing long-term plans to deal with flooding. I understand the Deputy's position in asking what we can do today and tomorrow to try to alleviate the immediate problems, while the long-term plans are being implemented.

I convey my deepest sympathy to all those who have been affected by the recent flooding. In particular, I extend my sympathies to the family and relatives of Mr. Vaughan who died in County Monaghan as a result of the floods. The Minister of State has seen at first hand the devastating impact of flooding on lives and livelihoods in recent days, as all Deputies have either on television or their local areas. The Government assures all those affected that we will continue to do everything we can to assist people in getting their properties and lives back to normal again as soon as possible. A number of funding arrangements have been put in place in recent days to help alleviate some of the difficulties that have been caused. I am aware that the Deputy has welcomed these measures. He also discussed how to prevent more hassle, which is an issue on which the Government is focused.

Storm Desmond, which affected the whole country but particularly the western seaboard, was a severe weather event dominated by record high intensity, short duration rainfall together with storm force gales, with the greatest impact experienced along the western seaboard from County Donegal to County Cork. I reiterate that the type of flooding that one expects once in 100 years is becoming common. It is time to review the basis on which such predictions are made.

I pay tribute to local authority and Defence Forces personnel and all those who are working day and night to protect life and properties and who are also engaged in recovery work.

The national co-ordination group for severe weather is meeting this evening. The group is chaired by the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government. It has been meeting on a daily basis since last Friday. Initially, the group met to assess the forecast and the risk. Since then, it has met to deal with the aftermath of the storm. As Deputy Fitzmaurice is aware, the gauging stations in the Shannon catchment are indicating that the river level is continuing to rise. The public should continue to be aware and take heed of public safety advice.

This week the Government established a fund of €5 million to assist business owners who have suffered from damage to their property but who do not have insurance. The fund is being administered by the Irish Red Cross according to criteria for payment and assessment currently being worked out. This is being done under the auspices of my colleague, the Minister for Defence, Deputy Coveney. We warmly welcome the creation of this fund. An existing humanitarian aid scheme has been in operation for some years. It is operated by the Department of Social Protection and serves to assist households with immediate needs and requirements. The Government is making every effort to get the new fund up and running and to get the money out to the people who need it as quickly as possible. The idea is to try to skip some of the red tape that is delaying the spending of that money.

The Office of Public Works is the lead State body for the co-ordination and implementation of Government policy in the management of flood risk in Ireland. The OPW is also the national authority for the implementation of the EU floods directive and the assessment and management of flood risk. This goes back to bringing a focus to the problem. We have numerous agencies but someone has to lead. The OPW has taken charge now. The office is trying to speed up somewhat the delivery of change.

The statutory basis of the OPW role in flood risk management is contained in the Arterial Drainage Acts 1945 to 1995. Under these Acts, the OPW undertook a number of arterial drainage schemes, whose purpose was primarily to improve the drainage of agricultural land to enhance production. I know what Deputy Fitzmaurice has said in this regard. This is what we are trying to enhance. Typically, that work involved lowering or widening riverbeds to facilitate the drainage and discharge of neighbouring lands and drainage channels. While not the primary purpose of the schemes, this work did provide enhanced conveyance capacity where rivers passed through towns, villages and dispersed rural communities. This has, in turn, reduced the amount of flooding that could occur in these areas. Although new arterial drainage schemes are no longer being undertaken, the OPW has a statutory duty to maintain the completed schemes and ensure they remain in proper repair and in an effective condition. Local authorities also have a statutory responsibility for the maintenance of drainage districts, which comprise local drainage schemes completed as per the 1935 legislation. Each year the OPW carries out work along approximately 2,000 km of channels as well as 200 structures throughout the country as part of its ongoing and rolling arterial drainage maintenance programme.

Acting Chairman (Deputy Joe O'Reilly)

I am sorry to interrupt. Will the Minister of State consider reading the second part of his script at the end? Is that acceptable?

Deputy Damien English

Yes. The annual maintenance programme typically involves some clearance of vegetation and the removal of silt over a five-year cycle. Approximately 730 km of channels are maintained in the west and north-west regions annually. The schemes in the west region include the Moy scheme, the Boyle and Bonet schemes, the Corrib group schemes and the Maam flood relief scheme. I understand Deputy Fitzmaurice is keen to see more of this and more silt removal. I am well aware of the situation regarding the Shannon, where silt has built up. I know exactly what Deputy Fitzmaurice is saying. We have to find ways to address this quickly. As I said earlier, a total of 300 areas are being investigated and examined, and plans are being put in place for them. Up to 66 of these areas are affected by the Shannon. Out of this process, we will see action plans that will deal with the areas in question. The money for this work has been ring-fenced for the coming three or four years. However, we need to co-ordinate who does what. The Action Plan for Jobs process is instructive. We put in place what had to be done and assigned the work to each of the various agencies. We know that five or six agencies are affected in this case. We need to ensure the work gets done and that is what we are trying to do. The 66 areas affect each other. The idea is to co-ordinate that work and get the money spent as quickly as possible to try to prevent further problems. This work will be done along with the ongoing maintenance that involves cleaning out all the various drains and so on. I realise this is what Deputy Fitzmaurice wants to see done. I will try to move that as quickly as possible. There is more to the reply and I will read it into the record later.

Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice

I thank the Minister of State for his reply. It is the first sign of positivity I have seen since coming in here. At least the Minister of State recognises and understands the problem.

We have a problem in Europe for the simple reason that the water framework directive is hitting the habitats directive head-on. We could have the best will in the world and the greatest people in the world in the OPW. However, they are still being shafted by three or four crowds and that is a problem. The Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht needs to put her head above the parapet and tell those responsible in the National Parks and Wildlife Service and all the other groups to pull back and let the OPW take charge of a difficult and dangerous situation.

The work of voluntary groups in communities throughout the country has been phenomenal. However, a certain fear remains. I spoke to engineers from my local authority last weekend. They are afraid to call for help in case something goes wrong and someone gets hurt. If that happens, there will be a problem. We need to ensure that we change something because there are many good people involved. I refer, for example, to people who bring diggers out and who would do whatever it takes in an emergency to help their people and their country. We need to facilitate these individuals. A council engineer should not have to look over his or her shoulder sweating about whether something happens.

The Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine needs to get involved. We have brought in the green low-carbon agri-environment schemes. That is fine. At present, a farmer could decide to plant 1,000 m of hedges a mile down his or her field. However, there could be 500 m of trees adjacent to the road that could kill someone because they are rotten and could fall. We need to introduce something that is constructive. For example, if a farmer plants 500 sq. m in a field, he or she should be able to cut 500 sq. m if other trees are going to be a danger to people. Any tree over 6 ft. high located along a main road is a danger, particularly in view of what I saw in the aftermath of Storm Desmond at the weekend.

GLAS should include arrangements for cleaning water channels rather than only for making a habitat that a farmer is going to destroy in five years' time because he or she does not get the basic payment scheme qualification. We need to start doing constructive things that will help. It would save money at the end of the day. Ultimately, houses that are flooded cost insurance firms or the Government or else the cost comes out of people's pockets. We need a little joined-up thinking between the relevant people to ensure that the various Departments are set aside and that one person or group takes charge. To be honest, we must cut to the chase. The biggest problem is that when the flood goes and the sun comes out, the memory of it seems to disappear. We have to cut to the chase or else no one will be living in the west because they will only be drowned out of it.

Deputy Damien English

I agree. As usual, Deputy Fitzmaurice talks a considerable amount of sense. There is an issue with regard to good samaritan legislation and allowing people to do certain work when they are genuinely trying to do the right thing. It should give them a little protection. That is in place and it is designed to help people to do as outlined. There is always a fear, especially when it comes to water and flooding, that if we alleviate it in one place, it can cause a problem somewhere else. That is the danger when it comes to a quick-fix or short-term solution.

I know Deputy Fitzmaurice appreciates that we need to get the long-term planning right. We have seen many cases in the United Kingdom where money was spent and wasted and where what was attempted did not work. There are two issues. The first is what we can do in the short term to alleviate some of the problems. The second is what we can do in the long term to prevent them from happening in the first instance.

The most important question is the allocation of money. There is a ring-fenced fund of €430 million. I accept this does not help anyone who is suffering today. We know that we will need approximately €1 billion in total in the coming seven, eight or ten years to solve this problem for most people, in other words, to alleviate the danger of flooding. A total of €430 million is set aside for the coming four years. That is being spent in a co-ordinated way. The Minister of State, Deputy Simon Harris, has taken a co-ordinating role across all Government agencies. That money will be spent properly. The plans are well worked out and there are no knock-on effects for the next person. However, we also need to increase what we can do to prevent short-term flooding in the coming years.

I agree with another point made by Deputy Fitzmaurice. I agree that a review of existing schemes such as GLAS could be useful. We are spending the money already. We should see whether these schemes can be adapted to allow for a little more common sense, for example, when it comes to danger on the roads or where trees are falling into rivers and ditches and so on. All we need is a little co-ordination and common sense. I will certainly raise that issue directly. The issue of trees on roads is something I get involved in personally because it makes total sense. We know of many cases where trees are rotten because of ivy and so on. We know they need to come out. Again, if someone needs permission they should not be in danger for not obeying the law by cutting down trees. What we do not want is for this to be abused and for trees to be cut left, right and centre to allow for greater use of land. It should only happen along roads. We should be clear on that. Certainly, we will work on that as well.

A number of schemes are in place. We are paying out money. Some of the money is European and some of it is our own. Perhaps we can see whether these can be adapted to facilitate or solve two problems with one budget. That is what Deputy Fitzmaurice is trying to say. It is something in which I will take a personal interest. I will try to work on that as well.

Penalty Points System

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

I thank the Minister of State for coming to the House to take this debate. I understand the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Donohoe, is in Brussels. The Minister of State last took a similar debate on 22 October. He told me in respect of questions I put to the Minister that he had no doubt the Minister would address the issues I raised, because it was not in his nature not to do so. Unfortunately, the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, has not given me any replies to the key questions I put to the Minister of State that day. For example, I requested that the Minister would clarify whether it was the case that there is no requirement in legislation for the Courts Service to record the licence of a disqualified driver. I also asked for clarification regarding the breathalyser printouts and whether they had to be in English and Irish.

Yesterday, I asked the Taoiseach to ensure the new road safety Bill dealing with drug-driving and mutual recognition with Northern Ireland would be passed before the Dáil ends. Along with my colleagues in the outstanding and sterling civil society group, the PARC road safety group, led by Ms Susan Gray, we continue to trudge through half-answers, fob-offs and long-awaited replies from the Minister, Deputy Fitzgerald, and the Minister, Deputy Donohoe. The tardiness of both Ministers is the nub of the debate, namely, the urgent need for the Minister to direct the Road Safety Authority to compile, monitor and update statistics relating to the implementation and follow-up of penalty point offences and disqualifications, in particular those relating to drink-driving and dangerous driving.

Earlier in the summer, through figures supplied to me by the Minister for Justice and Equality, we discovered that of the 20,830 drink-driving cases listed before the District Court between January 2013 and May 2015, just 8,391, or 40%, received a conviction. That involves completed cases. The Courts Service quickly challenged the figure and said the overall conviction rates were over 80%, but how can we verify this information? The Ceann Comhairle disallowed a number of parliamentary questions in which I asked for the number of cases, the reasons they were struck out per the District Court for the 20,830 driving cases between January 2013 and May 2015, the number of cases and reasons for adjournment in the same parameters per the District Court, the number of cases withdrawn in the same parameters per the District Court, and the number of cases and reasons for non-completion in the same parameters per the District Court. We do not have all that information in the House. I am still awaiting a reply to my parliamentary question on the overall breakdown of the above issues, which was finally accepted.

Without this information, the public and Oireachtas cannot form a view on the efficacy or implementation of traffic laws. More worrying is the fact that of the 8,391 persons convicted between 2013 and early 2015, a mere 1,647, or 20%, had their licence details recorded in court. Under section 22 of the Road Traffic Act 2002, persons summonsed to court for road traffic offences are legally obliged to produce a driving licence in all cases, as the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, said in a recent reply. However, he said implementing the legislation was a matter for the courts and that bringing prosecutions for the non-production of licences is a matter for An Garda Síochána.

In a recent ruling, Judge Marie Keane found a court could not convict persons summonsed for the non-production of their licences as the consequences and penalties for the non-production had not been stated in the summons. However, I have been informed that An Garda Síochána is responsible for the wording of a summons. Approximately 125 such cases were thrown out last month, apparently due to this technicality on summonses which was in fact created in the first instance by the Garda. I understand the Director of Public Prosecutions, DPP, has appealed Judge Keane's ruling.

Time and again, we have clear evidence of a dysfunctional system, in particular the system of reporting. While our road safety legislation is fairly robust and a lot of work has been done in the House and the Department, the application and implementation of the law is where improvement is badly needed. Surely it is now time for the Road Safety Authority to liaise very closely with the Courts Service and An Garda Síochána and for the computer systems of the three organisations to monitor, evaluate and report precisely to us on how all road traffic offences are disposed of through the courts, and we can then work on what gaps remain to be dealt with.

Deputy Damien English

I thank Deputy Broughan for raising this issue. When I saw his name, I hoped his questions had been answered. I will track the information for him. There was a commitment to get the information for him and I will track that as best I can. As the Deputy knows, the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, is in Brussels at the Transport, Telecommunications and Energy Council today. He sends his apologies. That is why I am taking this Topical Issue matter.

The fixed charge notice and penalty points system has, in general, operated very well since its introduction in 2002 and has enjoyed wide public support. This is evidenced by the fact that over 80% of those who receive a fixed charge notice pay the specified amount within the prescribed period. The system plays a very important role in enhancing road safety. The system of penalty points was first introduced in the Road Traffic Act 2002. The main goal of the system is not to penalise people but to make them more aware of unsafe driving behaviour, to influence and improve driver behaviour and to reduce the level of deaths and serious injuries on roads.

The key to reducing injuries and fatalities on a road is to continue to change driver behaviour. To date this year, 147 fatalities have been recorded. While there have been 33 fewer fatalities since this date last year, a lot of work remains to be done to reduce further the number of fatalities on roads, and we can all play a part in achieving this aim.

The role of the Road Safety Authority in the production of road safety information statistics is enshrined in the Road Safety Authority Act 2006. The research department of the Road Safety Authority is responsible for the production of road safety information and statistics. The role of the research department is to collect collision statistics and publish reports to understand how, when, where and why collisions happen to prevent them from recurring. It also promotes and participates in multidisciplinary research projects at national and EU level to inform road safety policy and road safety communications and ultimately reduce collisions.

Statistics on penalty points by offence, including those relating to drink-driving and dangerous driving, are readily available on the Road Safety Authority website. It publishes a monthly breakdown of drivers by number of penalty points, by number of penalty points and county, and the number of drivers issued with fixed charge notices for penalty points offences broken down by offence and by county.

The Deputy will appreciate that statistics should always be interpreted with caution. It should be noted, for example, that points data, broken down by county, do not correspond to where the original road traffic offence took place. The points data just state where the driver is domiciled. Therefore, it is not possible to link definitively the points awarded to a specific county as having been incurred while committing an offence in that county. A driver may have been detected committing an offence in Dublin, for example, but because the address on his or her licence is in Kildare, the licensing authority that originally issued the licence, the points will be attributed to County Kildare.

The Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport provides to the Road Safety Authority analysis reports on penalty points and offences. All statistics on drink-driving and dangerous driving, including the surrender of driving licences, are provided on a request-only basis to the Road Safety Authority, but the Department is working with it with a view to extending the monthly reports to include statistics on all court endorsements, including convictions and disqualifications for drink-driving and dangerous driving.

I am pleased to inform the Deputy that it is envisaged that this will be automated and operational in the new year and I will ask that the Road Safety Authority publish this information on a monthly basis on its website. Targeting road user behaviour through education, engineering and enforcement, known as the three Es, has been the cornerstone of our improved road safety record to date.

I am satisfied that our current road safety strategy and continued enforcement of existing road safety legislation by An Garda Síochána, together with forthcoming legislation which will focus on strengthening the law on drug-driving, among other issues, will allow Ireland to maintain progress in reducing fatalities and serious injuries on roads. As road users, we should never underestimate the power we have to help to save lives and reduce injuries on the roads. Changing driver behaviour for the better, whether it is to reduce speed, turn off our mobile phones or leave our car keys at home when we are heading out for the night over the festive period, can have a life-saving impact on our safety and the safety of others. We can all play our part in making this festive period one of the safest on record.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

The key point, as the Minister of State said, is that we still have a very tragic figure in terms of the number of fatalities on road this year, which is 147. The figure may be lower than recent years, but an enormous amount of damage has been done, besides the fatalities themselves, to the families and connections of each and every person killed on our roads. We do not have a statistical basis to be able to measure the implementation of our laws. For example, one shocking statistic, on which I am still awaiting further clarification, is that 521 drivers were already disqualified between January 2013 and March 2015 at the time of conviction for involvement in a collision causing serious injury or death.

The Minister of State referred to the Road Safety Authority and its relationship with the Department, including the surrender of driving licences. The Minister of State said they are currently provided on a request-only basis to the Road Safety Authority, but the Department is working with the Road Safety Authority with a view to extending this monthly report to include statistics. The statistics on which the Department is working to move towards with the Road Safety Authority are the very statistics we want.

I have submitted a plethora of questions to the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, and the Minister, Deputy Fitzgerald, on the number of learner drivers paying fixed charge notices, information on the DPP's appeal against Judge Marie Keane's ruling, which I mentioned, the number of speeding offences and convictions, the number of drivers disqualified for drink-driving or dangerous driving, fixed notices for drivers parked in cycle lanes, disqualifications per District Court breakdown and so on. That is all information that is not to hand and does not appear in the statistics to which the Minister of State referred. The Minister, Deputy Donohoe, told me that since January 2013 a disqualified driver has been required to post his or her driving licence to the Road Safety Authority and the National Driver Licence Service in Cork city. I am informed that 96% of those disqualified simply do not do so.

Approximately a year ago, the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, told Ms Susan Gray of PARC on "Prime Time" that if he felt the postal system was not working he would take action and introduce legislation. Here we are, more than a year later, and nothing has happened. The nub of the debate tonight is that the Road Safety Authority is up to date on every conceivable aspect of the statistics relating to road traffic offences, so we would not have to do a trawling, relentless search through the Courts Service's records. This is what we want, and it should be an ambition for, if not the outgoing Government, then certainly the new Government.

The recently announced proposals to introduce graduated fines for road traffic offences, perhaps ultimately based on a person's income, seems ludicrous. If the current system is not implemented in a clearly transparent way that is satisfactory to the House with up-to-date statistics, why would we introduce a much more complex system and introduce a double standard for people of different levels of wealth? It just does not make any sense. What we need is to have the current legislation which we passed in the House implemented fairly and squarely for every citizen and that we know the facts and the statistics.

Deputy Damien English

The Deputy has many facts and statistics himself, which are very useful, and I do not have the same information as he does. I know he is concentrating on the subject and rightly so. The Department shares some of the Deputy's aims and it is trying to improve the information flow between it and the RSA. It is probably a matter of applying more urgency to this. The Deputy is correct that the more information we gather the more it can inform our thinking, policies and law making. The main point is that we continue to try to drive down the number of fatalities. The Deputy is absolutely right that one is far too many, and to have 147, regardless of whether the number is increasing or decreasing, is still far too many. The onus is on all of us to try to do this.

The Deputy is correct that statistics and facts help focus our minds on it and help get the message out to people. If, when I am on the road, I park for ten minutes and watch, I often wonder how we do not have more fatalities because so many improvements can be made when it comes to driving. The onus is on all of us. None of us is innocent when it comes to driving 100% perfectly. It is about engineering and education, but it is also about attitude. This is something the Department of Education and Skills is working on, and I hope that junior cycle reform will provide opportunities to introduce new initiatives and programmes to educate young people in second level on the importance of having the right attitude when it comes to driving a vehicle, and on being aware of what is around them and thinking like an engineer. It is about understanding what it is like to drive a bus if one is a cyclist and vice versa. This is the understanding we must achieve. We all have a role in this. I will take what the Deputy has said to the Department of Education and Skills and I will feed back to the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport the issues he has raised.

The Dáil adjourned at 6.15 p.m. until 10 a.m. on Friday, 11 December 2015.